COMING OF THE SON OF MAN

[TheForgiven]

My friends.

I'm probably going to take a short break from the Prophesy.net forum because of the undisciplined nature of that forum. I've presented arguments, that in my opinion, were unexplained by the Futurist position. Granted there were some questions that I can't honestly answer with solidity, but I gave my opinion that would seem the most likely answer.

Let us discuss the Coming of the Son of Man.

Referring to the Gospel of Matthew, let us examine Chapter 10.


16 'Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. 17 But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. 18 You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; 20 for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.

21 'Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

24 'A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. 25 It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more will they call those of his household! 26 Therefore do not fear them. For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known.

Christ is preparing His Apostles for what was to come. He instructs them not to worry about what they shall speak, for it would not be them speaking, but the Holy Spirit providing them wisdom which none of their enemies would be able to defend against. Their oppression from both Jews and Gentiles, would actually result in their chance to offer testimony to them. Notice how the Lord used them to be brought before great leaders, and rulers, as a chance to testify to them. Why the leaders? This was Christ advancing His kingdom (building it) upon the heart of every nation; at the central control point of each government, whether Jewish or Foreign.

He contrasts His leadership suffering He endured, with what they too would endure. For He says, "if they called the Master of the House Beelzebub, how much more would they call those of HIS household?"

He then tells them a very strong time-statement that is ignored by the Futurist, and explained away as having some undefined amount of Time. He says, "For you will not have gone through all the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes...."

How do they explain this? Some insist that they saw the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom at the transfiguration, where Moses and Elijah spoke to Him at the mountain. This is easily proved false. For one, they had not yet gone through the cities of Israel. They were also not yet filled with the Holy Spirit, to speak to the rulers and leaders of both Israel and the foreign nations. Lastly, they had not yet gone to the Gentiles to proclaim the message.

Therefore, how can the Futurist position explain this simple truth? They insist that the "Son of Man" could not come until His Second Coming. And based on their analysis, His Second Coming could not happen because Heaven and Earth was not yet passed away, the resurrection of eternal life had not yet happened, and the Man of Sin had not yet sat in Paul's temple of God.

Thus, using deductive reasoning of their expectations, much like the Jews of the first century, they missed the mark. They didn't understand that not all things happen with black and white writing. In other words, things are not always as they are spoken, for Christ often used parables to explain truths.

I'm interested in your inputs.

Joe

[Abigail]

How do they explain this? Some insist that they saw the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom at the transfiguration, where Moses and Elijah spoke to Him at the mountain. This is easily proved false. For one, they had not yet gone through the cities of Israel. They were also not yet filled with the Holy Spirit, to speak to the rulers and leaders of both Israel and the foreign nations. Lastly, they had not yet gone to the Gentiles to proclaim the message.


Joe

Hi Joe

Jesus said they were not to finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man came. In Matthew 10:5-6 He said "...Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel". So to my way of thinking the Son of Man should have come before they went out to the Gentiles. I also dont think you can make the assertion you do about the Holy Spirit since: 1. Prophets of old spoke by the Spirit of God 2. In Acts they received power when the Holy Spirit came upon them 3. You have begged the question that this giving of the Spirit is the same event as the Acts one.

Abigail

[Rose]

Hi Joe

Jesus said they were not to finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man came. In Matthew 10:5-6 He said "...Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel". So to my way of thinking the Son of Man should have come before they went out to the Gentiles. I also dont think you can make the assertion you do about the Holy Spirit since: 1. Prophets of old spoke by the Spirit of God 2. In Acts they received power when the Holy Spirit came upon them 3. You have begged the question that this giving of the Spirit is the same event as the Acts one.

Abigail

Matt. 10:16 'Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. 17) But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. 18 You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19) But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; 20) for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.

21) 'Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22) And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. 23) When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

24) 'A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. 25) It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more will they call those of his household! 26) Therefore do not fear them. For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known.

From my understanding, when all the verses quoted are taken in their context it clearly shows that the time frame is 1st century Israel, after the crucifixion, and after Pentecost.

1. Jesus tells His Disciples they will be brought up before councils and scourged in Synagogues. We know that in 1st century Israel that is exactly what took place in Synagogues, not only in Israel but in many other cities that had Synagogues throughout the Roman empire (the Apostle Paul cites where he was beaten in Synagogues).

2. Jesus is telling His Disciples that they will be brought before Governors and Kings as a witness to Him, which tells me this happened after Pentecost....one thing being is that there was only 40 days after the Resurrection that Jesus spoke with His Disciples so we know they weren't going through the cities of Israel then, or speaking to Governors and Kings (they were still mystified by the whole crucifixion/resurrection event). It wouldn't be till after the Holy Spirit was given at Pentecost that they had the boldness to go forth as witnesses.

3. My last point is that just because Jesus says that they won't go through the cities of Israel before He returns does not mean that they haven't gone into the Gentile nations.

God Bless

Rose

[Abigail]

Matt. 10:16 'Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. 17) But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. 18 You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19) But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; 20) for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.

21) 'Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22) And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. 23) When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

24) 'A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. 25) It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more will they call those of his household! 26) Therefore do not fear them. For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known.

From my understanding, when all the verses quoted are taken in their context it clearly shows that the time frame is 1st century Israel, after the crucifixion, and after Pentecost.

1. Jesus tells His Disciples they will be brought up before councils and scourged in Synagogues. We know that in 1st century Israel that is exactly what took place in Synagogues, not only in Israel but in many other cities that had Synagogues throughout the Roman empire (the Apostle Paul cites where he was beaten in Synagogues).

2. Jesus is telling His Disciples that they will be brought before Governors and Kings as a witness to Him, which tells me this happened after Pentecost....one thing being is that there was only 40 days after the Resurrection that Jesus spoke with His Disciples so we know they weren't going through the cities of Israel then, or speaking to Governors and Kings (they were still mystified by the whole crucifixion/resurrection event). It wouldn't be till after the Holy Spirit was given at Pentecost that they had the boldness to go forth as witnesses.

3. My last point is that just because Jesus says that they won't go through the cities of Israel before He returns does not mean that they haven't gone into the Gentile nations.

God Bless

Rose
Hi Rose
I dont believe it is as clear you think. We know Jesus sent out the 12 (Luke 9) during His ministry and also the 70 (Luke 10) (remember when they couldnt cast out a demon and Jesus had to step in and do it for them Luke 9:40). Also when He summoned the twelve in the Matthew 10 passage, Judas was listed among them (Matthew 10:4-5)

Abigail

[joel]

you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.


And He came just as He said we would..........in His Spirit at Pentecost in a mighty way.

The Spirit was upon them.........and now, the Spirit resides within all believers. In this manner, Christ is in us.......and we are in Him.

And, when He comes again in physical presence, He will come as Son of Man, hier of all the earth, and, Son of God, Lord and Heir of the heavens and everything under the earth...........He came, He is coming at present, and He is coming in the future.

Joel

[TheForgiven]

And He came just as He said we would..........in His Spirit at Pentecost in a mighty way.

The Spirit was upon them.........and now, the Spirit resides within all believers. In this manner, Christ is in us.......and we are in Him.

And, when He comes again in physical presence, He will come as Son of Man, hier of all the earth, and, Son of God, Lord and Heir of the heavens and everything under the earth...........He came, He is coming at present, and He is coming in the future.

Joel

That's a fair interpretation brother Joel. I like that interpretation better than the ones I've seen proposed on other forums.

But here's why I think this interpretation is wrong.

Jesus told the Apostles that He was sending them out to wolves. They would be flogged, and persecuted from different cities all throughout Israel; additionally, they would suffer persecution at the hands of leaders even among the Gentiles. We know that they Apostles did not start preaching to Gentiles until the House of Cornelius, and onward. Jesus tells them that they would preach to both Jew and Gentile leaders.

He then concludes, "You will not have gone through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes..."

By this time, all would have been completed, and most of them would be killed, by the time He comes.

The day of Pentecost, they had not yet preached unto all Israel, and were yet to go to the Gentiles. Therefore, believing that Pentecost was the target of His coming would not fit.

Joseph

[joel]

they had not yet preached unto all Israel, and were yet to go to the Gentiles.

They (the original apostles) had not preached unto all Israel........
and (they, the original apostles) were yet to go to the Gentiles........
that was Paul's calling, not theirs'. They didn't accomplish that because they were not called to do so.

He (Paul) was the apostle to the uncircumcision, the nations.

Joel

[Abigail]

That's a fair interpretation brother Joel. I like that interpretation better than the ones I've seen proposed on other forums.

But here's why I think this interpretation is wrong.

Jesus told the Apostles that He was sending them out to wolves. They would be flogged, and persecuted from different cities all throughout Israel; additionally, they would suffer persecution at the hands of leaders even among the Gentiles. We know that they Apostles did not start preaching to Gentiles until the House of Cornelius, and onward. Jesus tells them that they would preach to both Jew and Gentile leaders.

He then concludes, "You will not have gone through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes..."

By this time, all would have been completed, and most of them would be killed, by the time He comes.

The day of Pentecost, they had not yet preached unto all Israel, and were yet to go to the Gentiles. Therefore, believing that Pentecost was the target of His coming would not fit.

Joseph

Hi Joe

Mattew 10:23 "...for truly I say to you, you shall not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes'

To my way of thinking they only had to focus their preaching on Israel up until the Son of Man came ...ie you do this until the Son of Man comes. So the task is complete when the Son of Man comes.

The mention of the Gentiles in verse 18 is not necessarily talking about the mission to the Gentiles but rather that the Gentiles would become witnessed to despite the fact the mission was to the cities of Israel, since the population at the time had Gentiles in it ie the centurion whose servant was healed (Matthew 8:5-13) which is an example of Jesus interacting with a Gentile.

Abigail

[TheForgiven]

Hi Joe

Mattew 10:23 "...for truly I say to you, you shall not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes'

To my way of thinking they only had to focus their preaching on Israel up until the Son of Man came ...ie you do this until the Son of Man comes. So the task is complete when the Son of Man comes.
The mention of the Gentiles in verse 18 is not necessarily talking about the mission to the Gentiles but rather that the Gentiles would become witnessed to despite the fact the mission was to the cities of Israel, since the population at the time had Gentiles in it ie the centurion whose servant was healed (Matthew 8:5-13) which is an example of Jesus interacting with a Gentile.

Abigail

:thumb: That is correct. And according to the book of Acts, the first group of Gentiles to be witnessed to was by St. Peter towards the house of Cornelius. Despite that, Paul, Timothy, Barnabus, were the primary witnesses to the Gentiles; the rest remained in Jerusalem, although some of them did go towards the Gentile nations near the end of their road. Those same "some" were killed by Gentile leaders.

Thus, it is my understanding that ministry of the Gospels was completed by the time the war began in about 63 AD; that was the beginning of Christ's "coming" to judge the original House of God:


1 Peter 4:

12 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you; 13 but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy. 14 If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you.[d] On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or as a busybody in other people’s matters. 16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.
17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 Now


' If the righteous one is scarcely saved,
Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?'

19 Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator.

Thanks for responding sister. :yo:

Joe

[joel]

it is my understanding that ministry of the Gospels was completed by the time the war began in about 63 AD; that was the beginning of Christ's "coming" to judge the original House of God:


The ministry of the circumcision apostles of which Peter was the chief faded by Acts 15. Paul's ministry to the uncircumcision grew and expanded throughout the remainder of Acts until the gospel of as presented by Paul was proclaimed in the countries and provinces beyond the "land".

The saving work of God was being transferred from Israel to the nations. Israel was being temporarily set aside so that the Gentiles could gain a direct access to God without the intermediate service of the Jewish people.

Preterists proclaim the viewpoint that the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple finalized God's work with Israel as a people. Paul explained in his letter to the Romans that they were cast aside (not thrust aside) so that the saving work of God could transfer to the nations. This transfer would be instrumental in their ultimate salvation when the "fulness (pleroma) of the Gentiles comes in".

In God's restoration and regeneration process (of which much still remains ahead) Israel will once again play a role. This will be a witness of the faithfulness God has towards His promises.

The weakness of the views of most of those who do not embrace the preterist view is the failure to see God's saving work as extending to all.

Israel will be a part of that process as a witness to the nations which are Israel's unique inheritance during God's final phases. The church does not inherit the nations. The inheritance of the called out ones during the proclamation of Paul's unique "gospel" phase is not of the earth, but is of the heavens as he explains in Ephesians.

God's saving work may appear at times to be exclusive to one group or another, but, scripture demonstrates that those saved are to be instrumental in the salvation of others. If we limit His work, then, we testify that His love has limits.

Joel

[Abigail]

:thumb: That is correct. And according to the book of Acts, the first group of Gentiles to be witnessed to was by St. Peter towards the house of Cornelius. Despite that, Paul, Timothy, Barnabus, were the primary witnesses to the Gentiles; the rest remained in Jerusalem, although some of them did go towards the Gentile nations near the end of their road. Those same "some" were killed by Gentile leaders.

No way Joe, you are begging the question. When you read the Gospels, during His earthly ministry Jesus definitely came to the physical House of Israel (see Matthew 15:21-28) and when He sent out the 12 and the 70 during His time on earth it looks like they were to do the same until such time as the Son of Man had come.

The rest did not remain in Jerusalem as you say, since how did John find himself on Patmos if he was remaining in Jerusalem? ...and tradition has it that Peter spent a lot of time in Rome.

The mention of the Gentiles in Matthew 10 can well be understood in the context of Jesus earthly ministry since many of the rulers in Israel were Gentile and being brought before them would cause them to be witnessed to on an individual level and on a national level (since they were Gentile figureheads).



Thus, it is my understanding that ministry of the Gospels was completed by the time the war began in about 63 AD; that was the beginning of Christ's "coming" to judge the original House of God: How do you establish your interpretation of original house of God? I dont see it.

Abigail

[Rose]

The saving work of God was being transferred from Israel to the nations. Israel was being temporarily set aside so that the Gentiles could gain a direct access to God without the intermediate service of the Jewish people.

Preterists proclaim the viewpoint that the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple finalized God's work with Israel as a people. Paul explained in his letter to the Romans that they were cast aside (not thrust aside) so that the saving work of God could transfer to the nations. This transfer would be instrumental in their ultimate salvation when the "fulness (pleroma) of the Gentiles comes in".

In God's restoration and regeneration process (of which much still remains ahead) Israel will once again play a role. This will be a witness of the faithfulness God has towards His promises.

The weakness of the views of most of those who do not embrace the preterist view is the failure to see God's saving work as extending to all.

Israel will be a part of that process as a witness to the nations which are Israel's unique inheritance during God's final phases. The church does not inherit the nations. The inheritance of the called out ones during the proclamation of Paul's unique "gospel" phase is not of the earth, but is of the heavens as he explains in Ephesians.

Hi Joel,

I fail to see any future role that Israel of the flesh can have, given the fact that now all have direct access to God though His Son.....unbelieving Jews included. The role that Israel had was in bringing forth Messiah, and those remnant Jews who received Jesus when He came took the Gospel of Salvation for ALL, to the world.

The Church is ALL believers Jew and Gentile alike, at all times in history. If a person of Jewish decent became a believer in Jesus today he would be a part of the Body of Christ, which is the Church.


God's saving work may appear at times to be exclusive to one group or another, but, scripture demonstrates that those saved are to be instrumental in the salvation of others. If we limit His work, then, we testify that His love has limits.

Joel


Gods saving work through Jesus has never been exclusive to one group or another, it has always been open to ALL!

God Bless

Rose

[TheForgiven]

No way Joe, you are begging the question. When you read the Gospels, during His earthly ministry Jesus definitely came to the physical House of Israel (see Matthew 15:21-28) and when He sent out the 12 and the 70 during His time on earth it looks like they were to do the same until such time as the Son of Man had come.

I'm not quite sure I follow you. Are you stating that they preached unto all the cities of Israel while He was on the earth? If so, then that won't work because they had not yet gone outside of Israel (none of them did until a few years after Christ was raised.


The rest did not remain in Jerusalem as you say, since how did John find himself on Patmos if he was remaining in Jerusalem? ...and tradition has it that Peter spent a lot of time in Rome.

That's why I stated, unless I mistyped. The Jews primarily remained in Jerusalem, while Paul and his disciples preached to the Gentiles. Later on, towards the middle of their ministry, the Apostles that remained in Jerusalem concentrated their efforts towards the Gentiles. St. John is one of them, only we do not know which "John" wrote Revelation, and the Gospels (to include 1 John, 2 John, 3 John). The language doesn't seem to indicate the same John that Jesus loved.


The mention of the Gentiles in Matthew 10 can well be understood in the context of Jesus earthly ministry since many of the rulers in Israel were Gentile and being brought before them would cause them to be witnessed to on an individual level and on a national level (since they were Gentile figureheads).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe

Ah I see, so what you are suggesting then, is that their ministry was not the Post-Pentecostal ministry, but the Pre-Resurrection of Christ ministry. In this case, when did the Son of Man come? This would be the same as saying that they received the Holy Spirit prior to Christ's crucifixion (giving them words of wisdom that their adversaries would not be able to overcome), and it would also be stating that Jesus came before He even left. You must also account for any event before Christ's resurrection, where they were flogged, persecuted, or even killed. Prior to Christ's crucifixion, none of the Apostles were yet killed, or persecuted.

I'm merely trying to clarify your position because I don't quite follow. Could you explain more in detail?



Thus, it is my understanding that ministry of the Gospels was completed by the time the war began in about 63 AD; that was the beginning of Christ's "coming" to judge the original House of God:

How do you establish your interpretation of original house of God? I dont see it.

Abigail

The first century Christians in Jerusalem, and Asia Minor.

Joseph

[Abigail]

Ah I see, so what you are suggesting then, is that their ministry was not the Post-Pentecostal ministry, but the Pre-Resurrection of Christ ministry. In this case, when did the Son of Man come? This would be the same as saying that they received the Holy Spirit prior to Christ's crucifixion (giving them words of wisdom that their adversaries would not be able to overcome), and it would also be stating that Jesus came before He even left. You must also account for any event before Christ's resurrection, where they were flogged, persecuted, or even killed. Prior to Christ's crucifixion, none of the Apostles were yet killed, or persecuted.

You are importing all sorts of things into the Matthew 10 chapter that are not necessarily there.

The prophets spoke by the Spirit long before Acts. John the Baptist spoke by the Spirit long before Acts . Speaking by the Spirit is not unique to Acts. In Acts they would receive power from the Spirit. During Jesus' ministry Peter answered that Jesus was the Son of God when asked by Jesus. Jesus said that the Father had revealed this to Peter ...ie that is an instance of speaking by the Spirit of the Father prior to Acts. The disciples and Jesus were persecuted before Jesus' crucifixion ...or why would they have hidden themselves for fear of the Jews when Jesus was arrested? Why would they have told Jesus not to go a certain way? In any case the speech Jesus makes in the Matthew passage is more of a warning about the things to expect from evil evil men whilst being a witness for Jesus. It was a warning to them as they started their ministry. You seem to be saying we can only measure the disciples' ministry from the first death of one of the disciples ...I think this rigid thinking is going to exclude vital things

[/quote]


The first century Christians in Jerusalem, and Asia Minor.


So God destroyed Jerusalem to judge the first century Christians?

Abigail

[TheForgiven]

The prophets spoke by the Spirit long before Acts. John the Baptist spoke by the Spirit long before Acts . Speaking by the Spirit is not unique to Acts. In Acts they would receive power from the Spirit. During Jesus' ministry Peter answered that Jesus was the Son of God when asked by Jesus. Jesus said that the Father had revealed this to Peter ...ie that is an instance of speaking by the Spirit of the Father prior to Acts. The disciples and Jesus were persecuted before Jesus' crucifixion ...or why would they have hidden themselves for fear of the Jews when Jesus was arrested? Why would they have told Jesus not to go a certain way? In any case the speech Jesus makes in the Matthew passage is more of a warning about the things to expect from evil evil men whilst being a witness for Jesus. It was a warning to them as they started their ministry. You seem to be saying we can only measure the disciples' ministry from the first death of one of the disciples ...I think this rigid thinking is going to exclude vital things

They had not yet preached to the leaders, been dragged off or arrested, or flogged. More importantly, none of them were yet killed. Jesus was preparing them for ministry, but their true ministry would not come until Pentecost, when they received the knowledge of truth. Prior to His crucifixion, they were not yet filled with understanding, and were still clouded in doubt.

IN conclusion, their persecution because of their ministry had not yet happened.

Joseph

[Abigail]

They had not yet preached to the leaders, been dragged off or arrested, or flogged. More importantly, none of them were yet killed. Jesus was preparing them for ministry, but their true ministry would not come until Pentecost, when they received the knowledge of truth. Prior to His crucifixion, they were not yet filled with understanding, and were still clouded in doubt.

IN conclusion, their persecution because of their ministry had not yet happened.

Joseph

Did you even read my post?

[TheForgiven]

Did you even read my post?

I sure did, but your theory doesn't quite fit the text. Yes, they preached throughout Israel prior to His crucifixion, but they had not yet suffered at the hands of leaders; even Gentile leaders.

Jesus was preparing them for their ministry, and for a short while, He did give them the ability to cast out demons.

However, you still have a problem. When would the "Son of man" come after going through all the cities of Israel? Would you state that He came on Pentecost? Doing so would open up an entirely different can of worms; additionally, it would also solidify the Preterist position that just as He came on Pentecost, He likewise came in 70AD.

Joseph

[Brother Les]

Joseph posted
it is my understanding that ministry of the Gospels was completed by the time the war began in about 63 AD; that was the beginning of Christ's "coming" to judge the original House of God:



Joel posted
The ministry of the circumcision apostles of which Peter was the chief faded by Acts 15.

The preaching to the Jewish circumcision was going strong "at least" up to Acts 21:17-24


Joel posted
Paul's ministry to the uncircumcision grew and expanded throughout the remainder of Acts until the gospel of as presented by Paul was proclaimed in the countries and provinces beyond the "land".

Per Acts 21, the Gospel was being heard by both the Circumcised and the repenting 'Nations', looking to the Heavenly Beulah Land.


Joel posted
The saving work of God was being transferred from Israel to the nations. Israel was being temporarily set aside so that the Gentiles could gain a direct access to God without the intermediate service of the Jewish people.

The Elect of Israel were never 'set aside'. Many among the Nations were of Israel (Divorce from the Mosaic Covenant, Ephraim) and many of Judah (Jewish people) went into the rebuilt Tabernacle of David.


Joel posted
Preterists proclaim the viewpoint that the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple finalized God's work with Israel as a people. Paul explained in his letter to the Romans that they were cast aside (not thrust aside) so that the saving work of God could transfer to the nations. This transfer would be instrumental in their ultimate salvation when the "fulness (pleroma) of the Gentiles comes in".

Preterist proclaim no such thing... Preterists know that ALL of 'The Promises' of Blessings and Curses were made to (Elect and no-elect) 'Israel" (plus prosylites from The Sea) The Old Marriage Covenant (Shadow) was given to The Sons of Abraham and so too were the New Marriage Covenant (Real) that is present today. Preterists know that the events of the first century was the transitioning period of old israel that lived under the death cloud to come out of that bondage and be renewed and reborn to The Assembly of those of The Election that God has chosen to have face to face Fellowship with. You misrepresent 'preterists' for your own distorted paradiym thinking. Many who claim to be of israel, remained in the Wilderness and died there, having never recieve the manna of Christ.


Joel posted
In God's restoration and regeneration process (of which much still remains ahead) Israel will once again play a role. This will be a witness of the faithfulness God has towards His promises.

The Fulfillment from the old to the new has been completed.


Joel posted
The weakness of the views of most of those who do not embrace the preterist view is the failure to see God's saving work as extending to all.

?


Joel Posted

Israel will be a part of that process as a witness to the nations which are Israel's unique inheritance during God's final phases. The church does not inherit the nations. The inheritance of the called out ones during the proclamation of Paul's unique "gospel" phase is not of the earth, but is of the heavens as he explains in Ephesians.

God's saving work may appear at times to be exclusive to one group or another, but, scripture demonstrates that those saved are to be instrumental in the salvation of others. If we limit His work, then, we testify that His love has limits.

Joel

The Church is the Election, the Church is National and Spiritual Israel. The Church follows and worships and is Married to Jesus Christ. The Church is the only one to be given the New Covenant as The Church Universal is Israel.

Brother Les