What is Church?

[gregoryfl]

Today my wife came home from her church and shared something with me that never happened before there. It is a pretty laid back church, about 100 or so people, that meet in a school. They do the normal routine of singing for a while, being led by a music group, then the pastor either has a message to bring, or sometimes other designated men will.

I have spoken to him on a few occasions of why I do not choose to attend there, and of course he does not see it the same way I do. The way I understand it is too risky for him.

Today however, she told me that whereas normally he, or whoever is talking, will do so from the front with everyone facing him, today he just sat with everyone else and gave his message from the seat. He said he wanted the focus to be on God, not on him.

I was so happy to see the revelation that this man is seeing, although there is still much revelation to be had, which I trust the Lord to bring in his time. What I see him failing to see still is that God is not up front, so sitting there staring at the front has nothing to do with focusing on God rather than him. God is in each and every believer, so the whole idea of sitting in neat little rows staring at the back of someone's head, or up front to some man, is so far removed from the reality that he is, and is to be expressed, in each believer.

I will be sharing this with him, to encourage him to continue being open to whatever the Lord reveals to him. I will be asking him why is it that the Wednesday home group isn't set up like Sunday. In that group, everyone sits in a group facing one another. That is just like Father desires it, a family getting together. How can one anothering take place if it is confined to a thing you attend where the only time you get to talk is the few minutes before and after, and the brief time one is told to turn around and greet the person behind you?

I am so glad to see many who are coming to see through the false ideas promoted through centuries of so called "church practice." It is a painful process, one that I went through years ago, but the freedom it brings from religious thinking and the true living out of "the church" as a people, and not just something you attend at a "holy place" is something I would never consider going back to.

I realize that it challenges the status quo, and I have been ridiculed by people, particularly pastors, who i have met and when asked where I go to church, I tell them that I meet with whoever loves the Lord throughout the area I live, whenever and however I can, mostly at home. At hearing this I usually get an uncomfortable look, then the speech on how I need to be under a covering, or that I am missing out. If only they knew the truth.

Would love to hear your thoughts on this, or perhaps your own experience, brothers and sisters. Let me make one thing clear. I am not talking against anyone who attends a place each week. Obviously if it is where you believe you are to be, then by all means it is where the Lord has you. It is the system in particular that I think needs to be truly examined and seen for what it is, what it cannot do, and how Christianity and "church" is actually so much more simple and straighforward than most realize. Risky? Perhaps. But giving up our own controlling methods of meeting together, if we are in leadership, or realizing that we can have a part, a responsibility, for each other, and not just to go somewhere as a passive spectator, if we are not in leadership, while risky, demonstrates the reality that God is truly able to work through his body, each and every one.

Ron

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hey Ron,

I think that is a wonderful post about how church could be brought closer to what God really wants it to be.

And I agree very much about the "riskiness" of the pastor being an "equal" amongst the believers. So much of "Church" has been co-opted by political agendas and power structures. Sitting in a circle makes a lot of sense to me ... of course, I have a "thing" for circles, as you know .... :lol:

Thanks for sharing.

Richard

[Rose]

I am so glad to see many who are coming to see through the false ideas promoted through centuries of so called "church practice." It is a painful process, one that I went through years ago, but the freedom it brings from religious thinking and the true living out of "the church" as a people, and not just something you attend at a "holy place" is something I would never consider going back to.

I realize that it challenges the status quo, and I have been ridiculed by people, particularly pastors, who i have met and when asked where I go to church, I tell them that I meet with whoever loves the Lord throughout the area I live, whenever and however I can, mostly at home. At hearing this I usually get an uncomfortable look, then the speech on how I need to be under a covering, or that I am missing out. If only they knew the truth.

Would love to hear your thoughts on this, or perhaps your own experience, brothers and sisters. Let me make one thing clear. I am not talking against anyone who attends a place each week. Obviously if it is where you believe you are to be, then by all means it is where the Lord has you. It is the system in particular that I think needs to be truly examined and seen for what it is, what it cannot do, and how Christianity and "church" is actually so much more simple and straighforward than most realize. Risky? Perhaps. But giving up our own controlling methods of meeting together, if we are in leadership, or realizing that we can have a part, a responsibility, for each other, and not just to go somewhere as a passive spectator, if we are not in leadership, while risky, demonstrates the reality that God is truly able to work through his body, each and every one.

Ron

Hi Ron,

I absolutely agree that if a person feels God has placed him in a Church then that is where he definitely should be, but what I have a problem with as you say is the condemnation that comes from "the Church" against those of us who for whatever reason are outside "the Church".

I can relate to much of what you've said, as many of my Church experiences have also been very shallow.....whereas I sought in depth teaching of Gods Word only to be preached at with shallow words.

I feel the last 1 1/2 years that I have spent on this forum has deepened my understanding of the Bible to a degree I never knew going to "Church". To be able to discuss freely all aspects of the Bible is something I never experienced in Church.

I hate to say this but it seems like one of the big reasons pastors want their congregations to grow is to increase their "tithe money", so they are willing to preach whatever people want to hear in order for their Church numbers to grow, and then on the other hand if the pastors don't preach what the people want to hear so as to increase Church growth, they are ousted.

Those are just a few of my thoughts. :pop2:

God Bless,

Rose

[Bob May]

Hi all,

I attended a church regularly for 14 years. My life was ruled by it 4-5 days/nights a week. Later I attended another church for 3 years.
I have not attended a church for over 10 years now.
I have a few friends in other States I call on the phone that know "where I'm coming from" spirtually. I call them now and then. I belong to this forum and another where we share ideas about Biblical subjects.
That/this is church.
Church is not a place. It is not a building. It is people who have come to and/or are coming to some realizations. This is by Grace.
We were promised brothers and sisters 100 fold. We were not promised that we would ever meet them.

I believe church is "Outside the Gate."
As mentioned, there is no time or opportunity, or worse yet, it is not allowed to discuss Biblical matters "inside the gate." That has been my experience.

Heb 13:12 "Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach."

Bob