My message to a Jew on a forum

[yeshua_seven]

How come Jews today continue to disobey God by not following the Mosaic Law. Since Jews reject the New Covenant, that means they are still bound by the Old Covenant, yet Jews do not follow all the commands of the Mosaic Law. Now of course individual Jews can't take the law into their own hands, by how many Jews are telling the Israeli government to turn back to God's commands and obey them.

Does Israel still stone adulterers to death? If not, Israel is rebelling against God. Does Israel still stone people to death for trying to lead the people to serve other gods? If not, Israel is rebelling against God.

Deuteronomy 13 speaks of killing those who try to lead the people astray. This means that Christians and Muslims who try to lead Jews in Israel to become Christian or Muslim are to be stoned to death.

Also, Israel should destroy all the churches and mosques and burn them to ground. The Mosaic Law does not allow asherah polls, high hills, and other sites for worshipping false gods. Jews are rebelling against God by not destroying all the churches and mosques in Israel.

And what about Israel's alliance with the United States? God throughout Israel's history told them not to put their trust in other nations, but to put their trust in God. I doubt the Israeli government has put their trust in God rather than other nations. The rebellion goes on and on.

This is why you have no peace with your enemies...the Muslims. If you would turn back to God and obey his commandments, then God would destroy the Muslim enemies in your midst. Israel is cursed. Because of your rebellion against God and your wickedness, Israel deserves all the bombs and bloodshed that goes on.

Of course if you destroyed the mosques the Muslims are going to attack with guns and bombs as the Qur'an commands, and then Jews are to fight back as the Mosaic Law commands and God would give you victory against your enemies.

Good kings in the past destroyed the false worship in Israel and established true worship, and today modern Israel needs to turn back to God and destroy all false worship today.

I could go on and on. What is wrong with Israel today? Democracy is disobedience to God as well. Israel is to be ruled by Mosaic Law, not the man-made laws of democracy with its so called human rights.

In reality though, the Old Covenant has passed away and the New Covenant is in effect. Israel will never have rest from their Muslim enemies because the New Covenant doesn't teach anything about Jews should be living in the land of Israel. If Iran wants to destroy Israel and scatter the Jews to the four corners of the earth, then I will accept God's will.

Just as Jeremiah told the Israelites to surrender to Bablyon or suffer death at their hands, so today Jews are to surrender to God or suffer death at his hands through the Islamic nations he has set against you.

Why can't Israel rebuild the temple today so they can offer up sacrifices again? Is Israel scared of the Arabs? Destroy the Dome of the Rock and rebuild the temple. Destroy churches and destroy mosques. Kill the false prophets (Christians and Muslims who try to convert the people) and kill the Jewish apostates (Jewish Christians) for the Mosaic Law commands that also. Israel is in terrible sin and Jews don't seem to realize their wickedness.

Truly, truly, I speak truth unto you. In the name of Jesus Christ.

[Brother Les]

yeshua_seven posted
Israel is in terrible sin and Jews don't seem to realize their wickedness.

Truly, truly, I speak truth unto you. In the name of Jesus Christ.


How would 'returning' to The Mosaic Law Temple Cultus 'completely', keep them from being "in terrible Sin"? Should they not think of completely leaving all ties to 'a marraige' that is already over?

Brother Les

[basilfo]

How come Jews today continue to disobey God by not following the Mosaic Law.

Hi yeshua7,

You raise interesting questions here and I think I understand your point: If they reject Christ as the Messiah, they should be continuing as obedient Jews did prior to Christ - attempting to obey the Law and all the ordinances under the Mosaic covenant.

My 2 cents:

The short answer to your question of why they disobey God by ignoring the Mosaic Law is that the country called "Israel" today bears little resemblance to the nation of Israel with whom God entered into covenant and attempted to follow God throughout their 1500 yr history.

Israel today is a secular nation established by the UN, and operates without any regard to God's covenants. The citizens are called "Jews", but the bloodlines have been drastically diluted over the centuries after the scattering in the first century.

Even if they did try to follow the Mosaic Law, what good would that do? Can one please God in any way if they deny that Christ was the Son of God - the Messiah? John called those who did that "antichrists". Does Scripture distinguish between William and Moisha if both say Jesus was a mere mortal, not their Savior?

Actually your question may be a question which cannot be answered, because IMO it is based on a few flawed assumptions:
1) Jews today are equivalent covenantally to Jews prior to Christ - they are not.
2) The nation of Israel today continues to be under covenant with God as it did prior to Christ establishing the New Covenant - it is not. Hebrews 8 and Paul's reference to the sons of Hagar and Sarah clearly explains that the first covenant does not continue on along side the New Covenant made "with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah". Can we view Scripture as a whole and conclude that God distinguishes between "Jewish" non-believers and Gentile non-believers? Does He continue to extend His "promises" to Christ-rejecters as long as their mothers are Jewish? The NT is loaded with teaching against genetic relevence after Christ.
3) Genetic descendants of Abraham are considered future recipients of God's promises - they are not.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ.



Since Jews reject the New Covenant, that means they are still bound by the Old Covenant, yet Jews do not follow all the commands of the Mosaic Law.

Is this true in light of Gal 4:30 and Heb 8:13?

"...Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman."

"In that He says, "A new [covenant,"] He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


Peace to you,
Dave

[CWH]

Hi,:)

I view yeshua_seven message too extremist…stoned to death for adultery etc? This will lead us further to stoning even for trivial sins. Where is the forgiveness of sin seventy times seven times then? I wouldn’t believe in a God so unforgiving.

I disagree with the below message. "This is why you have no peace with your enemies...the Muslims. If you would turn back to God and obey his commandments, then God would destroy the Muslim enemies in your midst. Israel is cursed. Because of your rebellion against God and your wickedness, Israel deserves all the bombs and bloodshed that goes on."

It has nothing to do with Israel’s rebellion against God and for not obeying his commandments. Only God can stop this rivalry, no human can. To understand the rivalry of Israel with its Muslim neighbours, we need to refer to Genesis 16 to 32 :

Genesis16 : 15 So Hagar bore Abram a son, and Abram gave the name Ishmael to the son she had borne.
Genesis 21 : 3 Abraham gave the name Isaac [a] to the son Sarah bore him.
Genesis 25 : 23 The LORD said to her, (Rebecca, Isaac’s wife)
"Two nations are in your womb,
and two peoples from within you will be separated;
one people will be stronger than the other,
and the older will serve the younger."
Genesis 25 : 24 When the time came for her to give birth, there were twin boys in her womb. 25 The first to come out was red, and his whole body was like a hairy garment; so they named him Esau. [e] 26 After this, his brother came out, with his hand grasping Esau's heel; so he was named Jacob.
Genesis 27 : 36 Esau said, "Isn't he rightly named Jacob [a] ? He has deceived me these two times: He took my birthright, and now he's taken my blessing!" Then he asked, "Haven't you reserved any blessing for me?"
Genesis 27 : 39 His father Isaac answered him,
"Your dwelling will be
away from the earth's richness,
away from the dew of heaven above.
Genesis27 : 40 You will live by the sword
and you will serve your brother.
But when you grow restless,
you will throw his yoke
from off your neck."
Genesis 27 : 41 Esau held a grudge against Jacob because of the blessing his father had given him. He said to himself, "The days of mourning for my father are near; then I will kill my brother Jacob."
Genesis 28 : 8 Esau then realized how displeasing the Canaanite women were to his father Isaac;
Genesis 28 : 9 so he went to Ishmael and married Mahalath, the sister of Nebaioth and daughter of Ishmael son of Abraham
Genesis 32 : 28 Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, [e] because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome."

This is how the story goes:
Abraham is the father of Ishmael and Isaac.
Abraham is the father of the Jews whereas Ishmael is the father of the Arabs (this is claimed by the present Arabs of today).
Isaac bored 2 twins, Esau and Jacob.
Esau hated Jacob for taking his blessing and intended to kill him
Esau then allied with Ishmael (father of the Arabs) by marrying his daughter, a Canaanite woman (they then bored many of the descendants of the present day Israel’s muslim neighbours).
Isaac somehow despised Canaanite women and would not allow Jacob to marry them.
Jacob was renamed as Israel (he fathered many of the descendants of Israel of today).

You see my friend, throughout the 4,000 years or so of history, the people of Canaan, the
Muslims, the Arabs have always been in loggerheads with Israel till today. All because
they are the descendants of Esau and Jacob and also because of the rivalry due to the
blessing as stated in Genesis 25:23. Eventually Israel will win as stated in Genesis 25:23,
'the older (Esau) will serve the younger (Isaac)' and Genesis 32: 25 'because you have
struggled with God and with men and have overcome'. The rivalry between Israel and
the Muslims will always continue and Only through God’s intervention, will the rivalry
stops. When will God intervene? He will do so in the endtimes which will bring about
everlasting peace and forgiveness of all sins that men and the Jews have done. This will
also lead all mankind to obey God’s commandments.

God Blessed.:)

[Brother Les]

Cheow Wee Hock ....


Do you know that you have two different story lines going on here....?


Genesis16 : 15 So Hagar bore Abram a son, and Abram gave the name Ishmael to the son she had borne.
Genesis 21 : 3 Abraham gave the name Isaac [a] to the son Sarah bore him



This is how the story goes:
Abraham is the father of Ishmael and Isaac.
Abraham is the father of the Jews whereas Ishmael is the father of the Arabs (this is claimed by the present Arabs of today).
Isaac bored 2 twins, Esau and Jacob.
Esau hated Jacob for taking his blessing and intended to kill him
Esau then allied with Ishmael (father of the Arabs) by marrying his daughter, a Canaanite woman (they then bored many of the descendants of the present day Israel’s muslim neighbours).



Did you know that 'King Herod' was a desendent of 'Esau'?.... 'King' of The "Jews'


Why not Finish the lines of The Birthright sucsession? Father Jacob gave the Birthright Blessing to His Favorite Son Joseh and then took Josephs two sons As His own and Gave them The Birthright of The Nation of Israel. The only thing that the tribe 'Judauh' recieved was the Septre "until Shiloh Come". Well, Shiloh has come and only those who follow The Seed (Jesus Christ) of Abraham are Israel.

A 'nation' that calls themselves a certain 'name' and are 80% secular are not 'religious' by any standard and there by unGodly.

'The Land' of the Middleeast is no more 'holy' than 'Rome' or 'London' or 'New York City'.... it is just a piece of dirt.

Ephraim has The Birthright and 'Ephraim' is not 'Jewish'....


These 'People' of the Middleeast may think that 'they' are fighting for 'the land of their Fathers' and for 'their' god.... they may be if their god is Baal or the Moon god.... But neither 'group', 'fight for' or worship The God of Abraham, who is YHWH.


Brother Les

[Bob May]

Hi all,

Gal 4:22 "For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."

Since Abraham is the father of all them that believe, then Sarah is necessarily our Mother or the Mother of faith. Sarah is also the mother of us all. That is interesting. She equates to the New Jerusalem.

It "comes down out of heaven" by hearing.

Gen 21:4 "And Abraham circumcised his son Isaac being eight days old, as God had commanded him.
5 And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him.
6 And Sarah said, God hath made me to laugh, so that all that hear shall laugh with me." (That is a great promise, isn't it?)

What we call Jews and Arabs are all sons of Ishmael.

Bob

[Trumpet]

The State of Israel has nothing to do with a Godly lineage. They try to say that it does, but the Israeli State follows it's own agenda, which is to conquer land and control things that will eventually give them power and money. The Israeli Gov't only uses Judaism as a cover. If you You-Tube the Rabbi's protesting the Israeli Gov't, you will find that those of the Jewish religion have full realization that they were exiled from the Holy Land almost 2,000 years ago, and God has not given them permission to return. These Rabbis know that the State of Israel is anti God; in fact they call it an atheist state. If you study the history of the creation of the State of Israel, you will find that they did unconcionable things to gain that land.
There are multiple reasons for this Gaza conflict, among them is the fact that there is a field of natural gas off the coast of Gaza worth about 400 billion dollars, and the Palestinians have the rights to it, have signed an agreement with British Petroleum to process it, yet the Israelis are blocking that production from happening. It's quite plain that they want to expulse the Palestinians , take the Gaza for themselves and then own the gas.
The Lebanon adventure also involves petroleum, in that they want a pipeline to go through Georgia to Haifa Israel, so that they can ship oil through Eilat then the Red Sea to Eastern Asia. ( That's the main reason for the Georgia/Russia conflict last August).
Unfortunately for even the Jewish people, the Israeli Gov't would even step on them to reach their goal. Most of the leaders of Israel adhere to the Talmud, and Kabballah, if they adhere to anything at all, and they treat all others with distain.
In Gaza, the one surgeon from Norway that has been operating on the Palestinian victims is on You Tube. He was asked how many people that he has worked on, and he said "hundreds...some doctors haven't slept in 36 hours". Then he was asked how many Hamas soldiers have come in for treatment and he said, "One!...I tell you the truth, that this is not a clash of armies, but a genocide of civilians!" There are numerous reports of illegal weapons being used on civilians like a new bomb that, when it explodes it cuts through anyone near it severing body parts. The Norwegian doctor was appalled. They are also using White Phosphorus bombs, which ignite when they are exposed to oxygen and burn right through flesh on contact, (these are the bombs that you see the photos of that look like fireworks exploding downward, and the Israelis claim they are using them to create smokescreens...still highly illegal!), and they are also using Depleted Uranium weapons, which explode in a cloud of dust that has isotopes in it. If you happen to breathe it, you can inhale radioactive particles and it has a good chance of killing you in years to come.
And like has been said before, the Jews of Israel can't prove they are of Jewish lineage any more than you or I. Unfortunately, many Christians are unaware of the Israeli State not being what they claim to be, and hence, we have been sponsoring a govenment that needs to be disbanded. As you will see if you look at the You Tube videos of the Rabbis, they say that there would be no problem for the people of Jewish religion to live in the Holy Land alongside of the Arabs. They lived there in peace before 1948 and it would be peaceful now...IF the Israeli Government didn't exist.

[Trumpet]

And by the way, do you know where the Star of David came from on the Israel Flag?? This is the star on the emblem of the Rothchilds family. It is red on their emblem, but when they went to choose a flag, this same star changed colors and appeared on the Israel flag. It's also no coincidence that the Kennesset building was paid for by the Rothchilds and also the Israeli Supreme Court Building, which was designed in a way displaying occultic features, like an animal marking it's territory.

Don't know much about the Rothchilds? Then look at this:
http://www.nogw.com/download/2005_rothschild_history.pdf

[joel]

Can you give an actual scriptural reference that would support your obvious hatred for the Jewish people?

Is hatred for Jews a commendable attribute.....one which others should emulate?

If you are numbered with those who have such negative feelings against the people who claim to be Jewish.......consider who in this world stand with you and state the same type of vitriolic rhetoric? Seems to me that they are determined to kill everyone that opposes their views.

How do your views align with......"Love your enemies"?

How do your beliefs support....."Love your neighbor as yourself"....upon which all of the law hangs in the balance?

The gospel is meant to convert haters to those who love others?
Which gospel do you believe?

Joel

[Trumpet]

Who are you addressing Joel?

[joel]

I was making a general statement concerning the on-going expression of hatred directed at the Jewish people.......not you, specifically, nor any one else....unless they hate Jews.

Does it apply to you?

Joel

[Trumpet]

Hi Joel. No, I have no problem with the Jewish people. My bite on this is that most people in the USA don't know the difference between the Jewish and the Zionist.

Here's a very good speech by a Rabbi about the situation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9OIqy6md9w

[Trumpet]

Here's another very short clip, yet very explanatory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2mTgq-jw8M&NR=1

[joel]

Trumpet;

1.) There are those who claim that there are no real Jews existing.......genetic crossbreeding being the culprit.
There are only "spiritual Jews"....those circumcised of the heart.....taking the scriptures in Paul's Romans letter to substantiate their claim....meaning that only "true" believers are "true" Jews.

2.) There are those who claim that Israel is gone forever, never to arise again....having been vanquished to the unseen because of their sin(s)...when in reality....the "true" church is the "true" Israel (this, I understand is a foundational tenet of the Catholic church).

3.) Now, I am learning that there are those who say that "zionists" are true cause of the on-going turmoil of the Middle East.

Please join us in the forthcoming discussion of Romans 9, 10 & 11 on the thread......"The Fulness of the Gentiles"......as it will be interesting to hear your view of the "Israel" of which Paul speaks.....what has happened to them.....what their current status is......what will occur in the future.

Joel

[Trumpet]

Hi Joel,

Thanks for the insight as to where you are coming from. I don't really have any agenda to join protests, or form an organization to stop what I see as an unjustified onslaught, but I do feel the need to enlighten those that don't know these things about Zionism. For most of my Christian life I have held the Jews in high esteem because they are our Spiritual ancestors, so to speak, without any realization of the fact that there may be a difference between those of a particular faith and those of a government. I just hope that people will look past what the main stream feeds them, because, with the internet especially, the info is readily available. So I guess my reason for this is to break through ignorance so that people can make a knowlegeable assessment of what the truth is.
As for your invite, thank you, and perhaps I'll join in if I see that I have something to say.

[Brother Les]

Can you give an actual scriptural reference that would support your obvious hatred for the Jewish people?

Is hatred for Jews a commendable attribute.....one which others should emulate?

If you are numbered with those who have such negative feelings against the people who claim to be Jewish.......consider who in this world stand with you and state the same type of vitriolic rhetoric? Seems to me that they are determined to kill everyone that opposes their views.

How do your views align with......"Love your enemies"?

How do your beliefs support....."Love your neighbor as yourself"....upon which all of the law hangs in the balance?

The gospel is meant to convert haters to those who love others?
Which gospel do you believe?

Joel



'Hate' is a stong word, Joel. Was there any statement that you consider false? The 'Israeli' laws are very anti-Christian. It is easier to teach about Mohamaud and the moslem moon god than Jesus Christ in Jerusalem.

Who was teaching 'Love' your enemies? Jesus was teaching the BEE attitudes to the Judain population. Their mindset was segergation and a 'Law' belief of Aparthied..... What has changed? Do 'Christians' 'hate' thieft? Do 'Christians' 'hate' Aparthied slavery? Do 'Christians' 'hate' murder? What is going on in the middleeast is genocide of fanatical religious zelots by a secular people....

Who do 'we' 'love'? 'Both' groups are 100% anti-Christian. 'Both' group tolorated 'Christians' because of 'our' 'Charity' and only want 'money' in order to 'kill each other'....

Pre-millinialists 'look' for an Armaggedon..... in The Middleeast.... What is so 'wrong' with A-mills and Post-mils and 'Preterists' to say... bring it on.... Nuke All of The Middleeast and turn all of The Desert to glass? Is 'That' 'Love'?

By Gods standard of Judgment, it just may be.





May The Love of God bring His Judgment on 'The World'.

Brother Les

[Trumpet]

As a Christian I would not say that we should "nuke" the Middle East. I would say that we should pray for those that live there! I would also suggest that we pray for the countries we live in too. In the instance of the USA, just as the Jewish people have never been called by God to have another homeland, the USA has never been called to go off and fight wars of conquering. We've all heard or read the words of the Constitution that state that our military is for defence only. And the "terror" threat that we are being defended against is mainly a method of removing freedom and may be as real as global warming.

God's judgment is something that is none of my business, unless God comes to me and makes it my business. I'm more concerned with Peter's statement in 1 Pet 4:17 that judgment must begin in the house of God, which in actuality is a double sword. As we are judged and clean up our lives, it goes out from there with an influence that affects those around us. I believe that God is making a Bride and His first concern is to clean her up and make her ready so that she can go out and show the world Who God really is, just like Jesus did. God has the world situation totally under control, despite what many think. It states in that verse that " what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God?" If a person has never heard the Gospel, he can't be judged for not obeying it, so this verse applies to the Christian first.

[Brother Les]

trumpet
God's judgment is something that is none of my business, unless God comes to me and makes it my business.

'IF' you are a 'Christian' ..... God has made His Judgment 'your' business..... What do you think 'preaching' the gosple is all about.... "Repent, for 'Judgment' is nigh.


Trumpet
I'm more concerned with Peter's statement in 1 Pet 4:17 that judgment must begin in the house of God, which in actuality is a double sword.

One sentence you say that God's Judgment as none of your biz and the next it 'is'? In reading 'The Judgments' (Curses?) that begin at The House of God... when read in context is the Latter Day Judment upon The Temple of God in Jerusalem at The End of The Mosaic Age in AD70.... These 'Judgments are on The Mosaic Sinai (Horeb) Law, not The New Covenant (some would wrongly say, 'church age' dispensation) Messianic Law....

1Pe 4:17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, (First Century Judauh) what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God?


1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?


1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls [to him] in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.




trumpet
I believe that God is making a Bride and His first concern is to clean her up and make her ready so that she can go out and show the world Who God really is, just like Jesus did.

So, Jesus 'cleaned' up the Church of Israel? Well He did preach of the coming Judment on the Mosaic Church dispensation. Preaching that by The Law, 'she' was guilty of all the Sins of their Fathers and worthy of death and 'her' sentence would be carried out within 'that' generation. The Messianic Bride of Christ, The New Covenant Church of Israel was being prepaired during that betrothal period of one generation.


Trumpet
God has the world situation totally under control, despite what many think. It states in that verse that " what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God?" If a person has never heard the Gospel, he can't be judged for not obeying it, so this verse applies to the Christian first.

I believe that there are NONE in the middleeast that not heard about 'Christians' and 'our' God, Jesus Christ.... So it is Biblical for all of these to be 'Judged' as all anti-Christ.




Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.


Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.


Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.


Mal 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the statutes and judgments.


Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:


Mal 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.


Brother Les

[basilfo]

And the "terror" threat that we are being defended against is mainly a method of removing freedom and may be as real as global warming.



Trumpet,
I hope I'm mis-reading your statement above. As someone who lives 45 minutes from where the worst terror attack in history took place, and someone who has worked for our Dept of Defense for 26 yrs, I assure you the terror threat is real. Maybe not as real for you in Arizona.

Don't compare the Al Gore jibberish with thousands of lives lost due to decades of cowardly Islamic terrorism.

Sorry to be blunt and way off topic,
Dave

[Trumpet]

Hi Dave!

I wrote out a HUGE reply to your question about all that I've discovered about 9/11, but when I clicked to post it, it vanished! Probably just as well, because I don't have any desire to be "marked". Well, I also served in the Navy, and I know about the terror threat. Is there one? Yes. The question is, "Who is behind it, and why?" If you want me to give you info I can, but I'll save putting it here because I could write about it for days, and it would get us off subject. It would be better stated under a title like "The mystery of iniquity at it's best!"

And by the way, Al Gore is only trying to make himself qualified for the NWO. He has no honest agenda that I know of.

[basilfo]

Hi Trumpet,
The same thing has happened to me (the vanishing post act). I appreciate your service and have great respect for our sailors. They do the hard work, we're back in the office. I'm on the Navy side of the house also - cats and gear.

I wasn't sure where you were coming from on the terror threat. You can PM the info to me if you want. I'll keep it there.

Couldn't agree more that Al Gore is a phony. The NWO sounds like we're swerving into an end times scenario that I don't buy into. Let me know what you mean by that.

Peace,
Dave

[Trumpet]

Hi Dave,

I read that Al Gore received knowledge about CO emmissions when he was in college from one of his professors and he took it to the bank. I don't know if he realizes what he's doing, or if he's just been duped, but if anyone would just go to spaceweather.com, over a period of time you would begin to realize that the warming and cooling of the earth is related to a number of factors, a major one being sunspot activity. The sun has been fairly inactive for over 6 months now, and the weather has been extra cold. When the sunspot activity increases, so does radiation hitting the earth, and so does the temperature usually. I'm sure you reallize that there are other factors in this too. The polar ice caps may be melting, but what do we expect? I personally believe that the ice caps became a reality during the Flood of Noah and eventually will melt.

As far as the New World Order goes, I think that most of these guys like Al are thinking that this thing is going to become a reality and they want a piece of the action, and I believe that there certainly is a large group of very powerful people pushing for it to become a reality for their own agendas...mostly money and power. But I also believe that God is going to use this big scheme to eventually straighten the world out.

[Trumpet]

Hi all,

Anyone care to see a short 3 minute clip that was shot by an Israeli camera crew that managed to slip through the sensors? This is the kind of thing that the Israelis don't want anyone to see, including their own populace.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJaPZLNLBu8

[Brother Les]

Trumpet posted
This is the kind of thing that the Israelis don't want anyone to see, including their own populace.

Americans also know of the ethnic cleansing that is going on. American support it. We have been conditioned to look at 'Arabs' as being non-'human' 'animals' that are to be 'removed'.....

"Oh, why is such a 'good' Jewish boy in such an awlfull place" (caugh)


If that statement was not so sad and sick, it could be funny.

Brother Les

[Trumpet]

Yesterday, my wife was coming home from the college on a city bus, and sitting next to her was a man with a Hebrew book. She asked him about it, and he explained that he was a Rabbi, and he was born in Israel but now lives in Arizona. My wife commented to him, "Isn't it terrible what's going on in Gaza!" And this Rabbi told her that he wished there was a way to explain to the world that the Jewish people in general don't have a problem living with the Arabs, it's the government. He told her how that he has had many Arab neighbors throughout his life, and some were very close friends. He said that the biggest problem in the Middle East is that the United States Gov't supports and supplies not just Israel, but the Arabs too, with weapons to fight. Only they give the best and most to Israel. He wished that the US would stop giving aid to anyone over there, because the aid always turns into weapons. He looked my wife straight in the eye and said, "If the US would stop giving money and weapons to the Middle East, all these wars would cease!"

[joel]

When God, the God Who approached Abram and called him out of Ur of Chaldees, and brought him into the land of Canaan.......and then 400+ years later, brought the family of Jacob out of Egypt to bring them back to the land that He gave to Abraham........and instructed them to evict those who claimed the land.......which they ultimately failed to do....but.....over the years the small piece of real estate compared to their neighbors remains in dispute as the rights of possession.......why can't the Arabs just go and live somewhere else and not threaten to eradicate the Jews, and take back the land?

Is the support of America the cause of the ongoing dispute? How can that be?
Should America just ignore the threats of violence and destruction of a people who if left alone would certainly not invade any other country without provocation.

How many Jewish children do you hear of who are taught to use explosive devices to blow up themselves and anyone else nearby in the name of their God?

Do you think that this problem will just fade away if America discontinues military support to Israel?

Once Israel is overtaken by the Arab invaders.....how long do you think it will take to expand to other areas?

Have you checked the demographic data on the increase of the Muslim populations within the world countries to discover that if they don't take over by violent means, they will take over by sheer population numbers?

Peaceful co-existence with people who deem it their God mandated responsibility to extinguish Israel, and anyone, or any nation who supports their right to exist seems like sheer delusion to me.

The future impending crisis over the land will either escalate to intolerable proportions........or........humanity will finally come to a universal awakening of "peace and prosperity" for all. That may be an extreme oversimplification, but it is my view that the scripture teaches that it will get much worse, and that man's ability to secure peaceful co-existence is impossible due to the hostility (enmity) that exists within the human heart that only the gospel of Christ can dispel.

At present, the Jew is blind to the gospel, and has found refuge throughout the world, assimilating into many different cultures. But, it is my opinion, that a reversal of the situation is forthcoming.......and if the "clod of dirt" in the Middle East is of no real spiritual significance, why is there so much blood shed because of it?

Joel

Joel

[Trumpet]

Hi Joel,
Gee whiz, you sound just like I used to just 2 years ago! Don't take my word for it. Do like I did. Search the web. Study the history of the takeover of the Holy Land in the 20th century. Find out who's lying. Actually, both sides are lying some, but the blindness of the average American on this issue is incredible! And since I used to think that way, I have no right to point a finger at those that think this way in ignorance...all I can do is point to information that will open eyes.
I could write hundreds of pages about all the things that I've found out, but what good would that do unless someone were to see for themselves? I'll leave you with a short video of a Jewish Rabbi that explains that true Judaism knows that the Jews were exiled 2000 years ago, and they have never been given the land back since, nor are they allowed to have a homeland, and the root cause of the trouble in the Middle East is Zionism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMybwpmAaM8

[CWH]

Hi all,

Please see my previous thread and reference to Genesis Chapter 16 to 32.

It is very clear, the crux of the problem is the birthright and blessing that was supposedly to be given to Esau (father of present day Middle East Muslims and some Arabs) was given to Jacob (father of present day Israelis). And because of these unfairness, "Esau" wanted to kill "Jacob" to gain back the birthright and the blessing. "Esau" allied with "Ishmael" (father of present day Arabs) to deal with "Jacob". "Ishmael" being of rebellious nature even to his own kin, has been very supportive of "Esau" as he is his uncle.

Whether the root cause is Zionist or Israelis, doesn't matter, they all have Jewish blood. Eventually, Israel will win. No human can solve this 4,000 years conflict even with United States involvement, Only God can. God will intervene at the appropriate time i.e. during the endtimes.

God Bless:)

[Trumpet]

Hi Cheow Wee Hock, glad to meet you.

I don't think that we can connect this conflict to Jacob and Esau, mainly because the State of Israel is in no way representative of Jacob. It kind of looks like it on the surface, but the State of Israel are in no way, shape, or form, a people of God. It is a battle of people fighting over the rights to a land that none of them can claim as something God has given them. The American Christian has somehow linked the political State of Israel with the ancestory of the Hebrew people and they think that God is going to defend them. I would say that this is not a statement based on fact.

[joel]

The Jews who inhabit Israel today may be interlopers.....who insist on reclaiming their promised land......but.....that fact remains.....the oldest deed on record.....one which no one....especially the Arabs.....can contest....is that deed granted to Abram from God.

Anyone who claims ownership....other than those whose deed is that one and only....is a thief......and a liar.

Explain to me.......whose ownership interest is superior.

And, explain to me why I shouldn't stand up for them against all other claims. Unless, of course, you claim that such ownership arises from Abram's first born, who came after the flesh.

There are many who will not recognize the right of the deed.......saying that Israel forfeited their right........but, how about Jesus, the only begotten son.

Joel

Joel

[Trumpet]

Hi Joel,
I'm not quite sure by your wording exactly what you are asking, but I would say that ultimately, the Holy Land belongs to God. He created it, and He decides who is allowed to reside there. The promise made to Abraham, passed on to Isaac, etc., etc., was valid to the Hebrews until they were exiled to Assyria and Babylon. The northern tribes never came back, nor was there any provision made by God for them to come back. The southern tribes came back as we know, with Ezra, Zerrubabel, etc., after the 70 years in Babylon. But they were again exiled after the Resurrection of Jesus when the Romans were allowed by God to disperse the remaining people of the southern tribes after the70 AD destruction and the Bar Kockba revolt in about 135AD. Throughout the last 2 millenia God has allowed people other than the Hebrews to live there. Even the so called "Christians" from Rome tried to take the Holy Land, but God had them evicted also. The Hebrew people have lost their geneology throughout 1800+ years, and no provision has been provided by God to allow them back. The movement of the 20th century was brought about by Zionists led at first by Theodore Herzel.
If you study the methods that the Zionists used to gain entry back to the Promised Land, you find that they used evil methods to bring it about, and the Rabbis of that time vetoed the idea because they knew that it was not of God. But the Zionists are the perfect example of those that want to conquer by might and power, contrary to the scriptures that say, NOT by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit. They have an anti-christ spirit in that they desire to take by force that which God removed them from 1850 years ago, and not only that, but they desire to control the whole earth, and consider all non Jews to be no more than animals. We are the "Goy".(Remember, I'm speaking of Zionists, not Jews.) They control the finances of the world, they own and control the main-stream media outlets of the west, and they have the most powerful and controlling lobby in the US and also have a controlling hand in the affairs of the United States government through the many Zionists that have been placed in positions of power, especially in the Executive Branch. -They are NOT fooling around, and they have little conscience.

It could be asked "Who is going to eventually reside in the Promised Land?" I'm not sure, but I feel that whoever they are, they are going to be of the Spiritual lineage of the only Jew that can claim that land for His own, and that is Jesus. Maybe after they totally annihilate each other, the blinders will finally fall from those left alive of the Jewish faith and God will give it to them. It's really of small consequence anyway. The Temple of God is going to be made up of believers in Jesus, and the whole earth will be at their front door. The present Holy Land will never have any significance in the future as far as a location of a physical place. (Some say that the New Jerusalem will come down to earth at Israel. If that were true, then the whole land of Israel would be nothing but the foundational dirt for the HUGE 1500 mile square City of God, and no one would be able to live there anyway!) It WILL be remembered as a place of great history, just as the Jews of the Old Testament will be remembered for being the vessels of God for that time. There is a thought of some that the Jews are going to come back into some kind of prominence in the plans of the Government of God. To that I would say we had better remember Paul's words in Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.", and Colossians 3:11 "Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all."

[CWH]

Hi,

Does God disregard people just because they are not pure Jews? Where do you find pure Jews nowadays? I still believe the conflict of Esau and Jacob over their birthrights and blessing still stand today. I believe that God approved that the birthright and blessing should be given to Jacob, if not why didn't God intervened and told Isaac to return the blessing and birthrights back to Esau? I am sure Isaac would obliged. History as we know today, will be very much different if Isaac have done that. Esau had in fact given his birthrights to Jacob (Genesis 25:33 "Esau made a vow and gave his rights to Jacob...that was what Esau cared about his rights as the first-born son"). Esau (...and his descendants today, the Muslims and Arabs) wanted the blessing back from Isaac which was supposed to belong to him but was taken away by Jacob (Israel) and he wanted it till today even if by force.

God will only intervene and solve the 4,000 years conflict at the appropriate time when the nation of Israel is about to be totally annihilated and wipe off the face of the Earth by the Muslims. Iran has vowed to do that. Note** No human can solve this conflict ONLY God can.

God Bless.:)

[Trumpet]

Hi Cheow Wee Hock,
I purposely didn't go into depth on this Esau/Jacob thing because there's a lot of detailed info on it, and I have trouble finding enough time to write it all out.
I agree with the premise that this is the age old battle between these two brothers, it's just the application of it that needs to be refined and defined.
The premise that God is going to intervene when the nation of Israel is about to be wiped off the map by the Arabs is, I believe, misapplied. The State of Israel is only a government and does not represent God's "Israel" God's Israel is "us", the body of believers alive today. As far as the Muslims and Iran are concerned, they are not the threat that the American people think that they are. The statements supposedly made by them to wipe Israel off the face of the earth are edited comments. I saw a "60 Minutes" show where Mike Wallace interviewed President Ahmajinadad from Iran. Mike Wallace received an emmy for this interview. In it, Ahmajinadad supposedly made the comment that Israel needs to cease to exist. what they didn't tell the American public is that his statement was edited. Just a few days ago, I saw the WHOLE interview on the internet. I should have bookmarked it, but I didn't, and I haven't been able to locate it. But if CBS had allowed us to see it all, it would be obvious that Ahmadinajad wasn't talking about the Jewish people, or the land of the Middle East. He explained that he has no bone to pick with the Jews, in fact, his country has over 25,000 Jews living there in peace. What he meant was that he desired the Zionist Government to become non-existent. He explained how that the Iranians feel that Zionism is the problem, not the Jews. But this part of the interview was deleted, but I saw the whole thing. You see, the Zionists have spent a lot of time, money and effort covering their backs. They own CBS. They own ABC, NBC, Fox, and most major news outlets. They own wall street. They own the Federal Reserve and control the monetary system of world banking. They had a major part in the administration of GW Bush, and unfortunately, Obama has elected to place them in positions in his administration, in an even MORE controlling way. They are going to do everything in their power to keep the truth about zionism away from the american public, because this is where they get their funding. Their next step is to crash the dollar and make the USA a third world country, and this you will be seeing over the next 1 to 2 years. To fix the "economic trouble" they plan to introduce new currency and a world government. They want to impliment these things as quickly as possible, but they are trying to do it in a slow enough manner as not to upset "The apple cart". They want implementation without having to resort to war, but unfortunately war is what we are headed for. The zionists also control a major portion of the oil industry, and this is how they have controlled the monetary flow throughout the world since 1973. The recent drop in oil to below $40/barrel was broadcast long before it happened by Lindsey Williams, (a Baptist Minister), who was warned by a friend he knows in highest level of the oil industry cabal. He was also told that this was all planned, and that oil would be going WAY back up this year.
The Zionists are playing the part of Esau. THEY are the ones that want the Birthright for themselves. They have worked, over the last 200 years especially, patiently working their way into all the controlling stuctures of the whole world. They have the same spirit as did Judas, who wanted Jesus to take the Kingdom by force. These people are the lineage of the "bad figs" that Jeremiah spoke of. They are no good, and want to conquer the world by force. But God has other plans, namely to fulfill the crushing of the kingdoms of the world portrayed by the statue in Daniel by the stone not made from hands. Dan.2 THEN we will have peace!

[Brother Les]

Cheow Wee Hock
Hi,

Does God disregard people just because they are not pure Jews? Where do you find pure Jews nowadays? I still believe the conflict of Esau and Jacob over their birthrights and blessing still stand today. I believe that God approved that the birthright and blessing should be given to Jacob, if not why didn't God intervened and told Isaac to return the blessing and birthrights back to Esau? I am sure Isaac would obliged. History as we know today, will be very much different if Isaac have done that. Esau had in fact given his birthrights to Jacob (Genesis 25:33 "Esau made a vow and gave his rights to Jacob...that was what Esau cared about his rights as the first-born son"). Esau (...and his descendants today, the Muslims and Arabs) wanted the blessing back from Isaac which was supposed to belong to him but was taken away by Jacob (Israel) and he wanted it till today even if by force.

You are bringing forth the granting of The Birthright? It should be brought for front. Juduah Does Not Have The Birthright.... Joseph, Ephraim, and Manasseh do.



1Ch 5:1 Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he [was] the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father's bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright.

1Ch 5:2 For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him [came] the chief ruler; but the birthright [was] Joseph's:)





Judauh was only given The Kingship 'until Shiloh come'... Shiloh came in the First century. 'Juduah'as a seperate tribe has no claim to Palistine as a Birthright claim. 'Juduah' does not have that Birthright now or really never did if 'she' (Juduah) is not in the confines of Ephraim.... Ephraim is The Head of The House of Israel, not Juduah.

Brother Les

[yeshua_seven]

I don't have time to read all of it, but I read most of the first page and I just want to clarify that I am speaking not from a Christian perspective, but from a Jewish perspective. If I was a Jew today, I would be labeled an extremist because I would condemn the government for apostasy and want to push to have the Mosaic Law rule the land.

My purpose is to condemn the Jewish people for rejecting God from an Old Covenant view point, which is turn condemns them from a New Covenant view point, thus leaving them as nothing about idolaters with no hope outside of Christ. My purpose also is for Christians and churches who support Israel for the wrong reasons - false doctrines such as dispensationalism. Some believe that Jews are the friends of Christians, but in reality, if they followed the Mosaic Law, they would be are enemies. Jews are no different from any other unbeliever.

I do the same with Islam when I speak about it...I speak as if I am a Muslim myself, because that is the only way to properly understand another faith. Christians often condemn Al-Qaeda as terrorists, but they should be shown some level of compassion, because America and the United Nations would have called Moses and Joshua terrorist leaders as well for Moses commanding and Joshua leading the Israelites into Canaan to slaughter everybody in the name of God. The only difference is the latter was the true God and the former is a false god.

I'm not confused about the Old Covenant passing away, but just putting myself in the shoes of a Jew who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ. From those shoes, the nation of Israel is an apostate nation and Mosaic Law should be the rule of the land. By doing this, it also helps us to understand the Old Testament better.