Does the Number 318 in Exodus 14:14 prove gematria was being used?

[sylvius]

, the spelling of the words used in the text was already fixed by the time it was written, a time when alphabetic numeration was unknown to the writers.

Genesis 14:14 proves otherwise

And Abram heard that his kinsman had been taken captive, and he armed his trained men, those born in his house, three hundred and eighteen, and he pursued [them] until Dan.


318 being numerical value of the name Eliezer

Genesis 15:2,
And Abram said, "O Lord God, what will You give me, since I am going childless, and the steward of my household is Eliezer of Damascus?"

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Genesis 14:14 proves otherwise

And Abram heard that his kinsman had been taken captive, and he armed his trained men, those born in his house, three hundred and eighteen, and he pursued [them] until Dan.


318 being numerical value of the name Eliezer

Genesis 15:2,
And Abram said, "O Lord God, what will You give me, since I am going childless, and the steward of my household is Eliezer of Damascus?"
How does that single coincidence prove anything?

[sylvius]

How does that single coincidence prove anything?

318 is also gematria of "siach" = bush, shrub; conversation, talk; meditation

in Genesis 2:5

וְכֹ֣ל שִׂ֣יחַ הַשָּׂדֶ֗ה טֶ֚רֶם יִֽהְיֶ֣ה בָאָ֔רֶץ and every bush of the field when it was not yet in the earth


same earth that was mentioned in Genesis 1:1

it needed the mist, "ed", of Genesis 2:6 to give drink to the entire surface of the ground.

giving drink = "shakah", rootletters "shin- kof", that are also in "ben- meshek beiti", steward of my houshold, and "d'meshek", Damascus ( explained as "the one who drew and gave to drink from his master's teachings to others.) in Genesis 15:2

so that proves it is not mere coincidence

Mist "ed" is written "alef-dalet" = "1-4" -- source of the 1:4 ratio of the two trees.

But of course it was written by God,
or better dictated by God and written down by Moses :winking0071:

[sylvius]

or better dictated by God and written down by Moses :winking0071:

But who was Moses?

He was born in a world where all new born baby boys had to be thrown into the Nile ( the river ) = into oblivion

(since "zachar" , male, is related to "zachar" = to remember)

Exodus 1:22, And Pharaoh commanded all his people, saying, "Every son who is born you shall cast into the Nile, and every daughter you shall allow to live."



His name is declared as, Exodus 2:10, "ki min-hamayim mishiteihu"
"For I drew him from the water."

cf. John 21:11, Simon Peter went up and drew the net to land, full of large fish

"mosheh"= 345 = reversed "hashem"= the (essential) name.

To Moses God revealed his name at the burning bush

bush סְּנֶֽה is another name for שִׂ֣יחַ in Genesis 2:5

etc., etc.

John 1:17,
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

https://twitter.com/Minkmaat/status/989778752543641600

[sylvius]

How does that single coincidence prove anything?

footnote in KBS-bible (catholic) placed by my teacher Pater Nelis, for which he was reprimanded by the bishop.

https://twitter.com/Minkmaat/status/1163780340281991168


footnote in NBG-bible (protestant):

https://twitter.com/Minkmaat/status/1163781692433346562


So that means war :eek:


War of the four kings (the squareheads) against the five.

First war mentioned --Mother Of All Wars :winking0071:

[sylvius]

ha ha , there you have it:

https://messianic-revolution.com/14-3-was-abram-assisted-by-318-men-or-just-one-servant/


Alex says

March 5, 2018 at 8:00 pm

So many people try to find numeric meaning without knowing the truth or the history of the one, holy and apostolic Church - Orthodox Christianity.

For us it's simple. 318 holy fathers gathered at the first Ecumenical Council in Nicea (that condemned the heresies of the time) therefore defeating the enemy (satan that works through heretics). Just as Abraam defeated the earthly enemies with 318 men.




richoka says

March 6, 2018 at 3:16 am

Thanks for sharing Alex but I don't know if I can accept your theory. The Ecumenical Council in Nicea?! Isn't that the anti-semitical group that established the ridiculous "trinity" idea?




https://books.google.nl/books?id=P2R7DwAAQBAJ&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=318+fathers+nicea+genesis+14:14&source=bl&ots=ImaxokFGFw&sig=ACfU3U06TBLU1Vng-GFHfBP22QItP0bWcg&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjujpG85JHkAhVFa1AKHcIQAwMQ6AEwBHoECAgQA Q#v=onepage&q=318%20fathers%20nicea%20genesis%2014%3A14&f=false

[Richard Amiel McGough]

ha ha , there you have it:

https://messianic-revolution.com/14-3-was-abram-assisted-by-318-men-or-just-one-servant/



https://books.google.nl/books?id=P2R7DwAAQBAJ&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=318+fathers+nicea+genesis+14:14&source=bl&ots=ImaxokFGFw&sig=ACfU3U06TBLU1Vng-GFHfBP22QItP0bWcg&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjujpG85JHkAhVFa1AKHcIQAwMQ6AEwBHoECAgQA Q#v=onepage&q=318%20fathers%20nicea%20genesis%2014%3A14&f=false
Excellent example sylvius!

Every person sees their own doctrines in the numbers. The numbers don't actually have any meaning in themselves. :thumb:

They are like a Rorschach test.

[sylvius]

Excellent example sylvius!

Every person sees their own doctrines in the numbers. The numbers don't actually have any meaning in themselves. :thumb:

They are like a Rorschach test.


You seemingly forgot already that it was about the fact that the author(s) of Genesis apparently knew about the numerical values of letters, words and phrases, so that they deliberately might have worded Genesis 1:1 in such way that the numerical values of the letters summed up to 2701, etc.


(They must have been very high anyway)

[Richard Amiel McGough]

You seemingly forgot already that it was about the fact that the author(s) of Genesis apparently knew about the numerical values of letters, words and phrases, so that they deliberately might have worded Genesis 1:1 in such way that the numerical values of the letters summed up to 2701, etc.


(They must have been very high anyway)
Why would you think I forgot that? I asked you why anyone would think a single trivial little coincidence like the value of 318 in Exodus 14:14 would prove anything and you apparently "forgot" to answer. :p

So answer me this. Given that there are so many words and numbers in the Bible, it seems very likely that we would find random coincidences like this. Why would you think the example of 318 is not one of those random coincidences? And how could anyone know if it were?

Back in the day when I was a believer, I took the fact that Paul linked the number 430 with the law as evidence of gematria because the Greek nomos (law) = 430.

Gal 3:17 What I am saying is this: the Law (= 430), which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.

Do you think this is evidence that Paul was using Greek gematria?

[sylvius]

Why would you think I forgot that? I asked you why anyone would think a single trivial little coincidence like the value of 318 in Exodus 14:14 would prove anything and you apparently "forgot" to answer. :p

it's not a single trivial coincidence


So answer me this. Given that there are so many words and numbers in the Bible, it seems very likely that we would find random coincidences like this. Why would you think the example of 318 is not one of those random coincidences? And how could anyone know if it were?

it's no coincidence, but deliberately written that way.



Back in the day when I was a believer, I took the fact that Paul linked the number 430 with the law as evidence of gematria because the Greek nomos (law) = 430.

Gal 3:17 What I am saying is this: the Law (= 430), which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.

Do you think this is evidence that Paul was using Greek gematria?

It proves that Paul knew that "the covenant between the parts" (Genesis 15) took place when Abra(ha)m was 70 years old, so five years before he left Charan.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

it's not a single trivial coincidence


it's no coincidence, but deliberately written that way.


How do you know that?



It proves that Paul knew that "the covenant between the parts" (Genesis 15) took place when Abra(ha)m was 70 years old, so five years before he left Charan.
You didn't answer my question. I was asking about the connection between the number 430 in the text and the value of the Greek word nomos (law). Do you think that proves Paul was using Greek gematria? If not, why would you believe the appearance of the number 318 in Exo 14:14 was an example of gematria?

And why is it so difficult for you to answer basic questions?

[sylvius]

How do you know that?


You didn't answer my question. I was asking about the connection between the number 430 in the text and the value of the Greek word nomos (law). Do you think that proves Paul was using Greek gematria? If not, why would you believe the appearance of the number 318 in Exo 14:14 was an example of gematria?

And why is it so difficult for you to answer basic questions?


of course Paul was not hinting at the value of Greek "nomos", since the number 430 is mentioned in Exodus 12:40,

And the habitation of the children of Israel, that they dwelled in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.

In that same year Torah, the law, was given

Rashi:

was four hundred and thirty years: Altogether, from the time that Isaac was born, until now, were 400 years. From the time that Abraham had seed [i.e., had a child, the prophecy] ?that your seed will be strangers? (Gen. 15:13) was fulfilled; and there were another 30 years from the decree ?between the parts? (Gen 15:10) until Isaac was born

430 is gematria of "nefesh"= (bodily) soul, the soul that Jesus would give as ransom for many (Mark 10:45)

430 happens to be also gematria of Rameses,

Exodus 40:37,
The children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth

From Rameses to Succoth = From 430 to 480, difference 50, coinciding the 50th day after Jesus was laid in the grave = Pentecost

Rashi knew that too


from Rameses to Succoth: They were 120 "mil" [apart]. Yet they arrived there instantly, as it is said: ?and I carried you on eagles? wings.? -[from Mechilta]

since "I carried you on eagles' wings " is derived from Exodus 19:4, where the chidren of Israel arrived in the desert of Sinai and Moses had ascended to God.

[sylvius]

How do you know that?



From gematria of "siach" in Genesis 2:5

[sylvius]

of course Paul was not hinting at the value of Greek "nomos", since the number 430 is mentioned in Exodus 12:40,

And the habitation of the children of Israel, that they dwelled in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.

In that same year Torah, the law, was given

Rashi:

430 is gematria of "nefesh"= (bodily) soul, the soul that Jesus would give as ransom for many (Mark 10:45)

430 happens to be also gematria of Rameses,

Exodus 40:37,
The children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth

From Rameses to Succoth = From 430 to 480, difference 50, coinciding the 50th day after Jesus was laid in the grave = Pentecost

Rashi knew that too


since "I carried you on eagles' wings " is derived from Exodus 19:4, where the chidren of Israel arrived in the desert of Sinai and Moses had ascended to God.

Mark 10:45 is after Isaiah 53:10

אִם־תָּשִׂ֚ים אָשָׁם֙ נַפְשׁ֔וֹ יִרְאֶ֥ה זֶ֖רַע, : "im tassim asham nafsho yireh zera" = "if he makes his soul ransom he will see seed"

Rashi:

This word אָשָׁם is an expression of ransom that one gives to the one against when he sinned

Christian exegetes do fail to see/subcribe this, a.o. because of their rejection / condemnnation of gematria.

Most do translate ψυχή with life, while it clearly stands for Hebrew "nefesh" = soul

https://biblehub.com/mark/10-45.htm

אָשָׁם
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/817.htm

guilt (2), guilt offering (38), guilt offerings (1), guilty deeds (1), sin (1), wrong (3).




Greek αἰτία in Mark 15:26 stands for Hebrew "asham", even as it is mentioned in Isaiah 53:10 (you can know from Mark 10:45)

καὶ ἦν ἡ ἐπιγραφὴ τῆς αἰτίας αὐτοῦ ἐπιγεγραμμένη, Ὁ βασιλεὺς τῶν Ἰουδαίων.


https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0048/0008/6116/products/Screen_Shot_2019-06-07_at_12.08.39_PM_1024x1024@2x.png?v=1560370331 :winking0071:

[sylvius]

"asham" is written with the three mother-letters mentioned in the Sefer Yetzirah

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sefer_Yetzirah


the three "mothers" from which the other letters of the alphabet are formed

[sylvius]

John 11:1,

Now there was someone sick, Lazarus
ην δέ τις ἀσθενῶν, Λάζαρος

Lazarus = Eliezer

sick = Hebrew "choleh" --

normal, square, profane = "chol" , gematria 38

John played with that

John 5:5
δέ τις ἄνθρωπος ἐκεῖ τριάκοντα [καὶ] ὀκτὼ ἔτη ἔχων ἐν τῇ ἀσθενείᾳ αὐτοῦ:
a certain man had been there for 38 years in his sickness.

The Jews figurating in the gospel of John all were reckoning with historical (= normal, square, profane) evidence, like that the 318 trained servants of Abram should have been literal 318 men. Etc.

John 8:53,
Art thou greater than our father Abraham, who died?

[sylvius]

Genesis 14:14 has , he armed his "chanichaw", born in his house,

"chanich" = initiate, apprentice, pupil

Rashi:

it [חֲנִיכָיו] is an expression of the initiation (lit. the beginning of the entrance) of a person or a utensil to the craft with which he [or it] is destined to remain, and similarly (Prov. 22: 6): "Train (חֲנֹךְ) a child"



They were initiated in the secret knowledge

(i.e. they knew about the 2701-gematria of Genesis 1:1 :winking0071:)

[Richard Amiel McGough]

of course Paul was not hinting at the value of Greek "nomos", since the number 430 is mentioned in Exodus 12:40,

And the habitation of the children of Israel, that they dwelled in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.

In that same year Torah, the law, was given

And that's exactly why I (back in the day when I believed in gematria) said it must have been God who designed the text since it was beyond Paul's ability to put that number in Exodus.

If the mere coincidence of a number appearing in both the plain text and the gematria of the text is "evidence" that gematria was being deliberately used, then we must conclude that God is the one using gematria in both the Old Testament and the New.

This answers the question you asked Bill in the other thread "Why couldn't it have been done by some intelligent person / intelligent people?" in the other thread (here (https://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?6562-Trefoils-in-Genesis-1-1&p=72729#post72729)).



Rashi:

430 is gematria of "nefesh"= (bodily) soul, the soul that Jesus would give as ransom for many (Mark 10:45)

430 happens to be also gematria of Rameses,

Exodus 40:37,
The children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth

From Rameses to Succoth = From 430 to 480, difference 50, coinciding the 50th day after Jesus was laid in the grave = Pentecost

Rashi knew that too


since "I carried you on eagles' wings " is derived from Exodus 19:4, where the chidren of Israel arrived in the desert of Sinai and Moses had ascended to God.
Yes, there are lots of random words that have the same numeric value. That's why there's no meaning to gematria.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

From gematria of "siach" in Genesis 2:5
Why is that evidence? That word has nothing to do with Exodus 14:14, and lots of words have the same value.

Your methods seem to be entirely irrational.

[sylvius]

And that's exactly why I (back in the day when I believed in gematria) said it must have been God who designed the text since it was beyond Paul's ability to put that number in Exodus. :confused:


If the mere coincidence of a number appearing in both the plain text and the gematria of the text is "evidence" that gematria was being deliberately used, then we must conclude that God is the one using gematria in both the Old Testament and the New. :confused:




Yes, there are lots of random words that have the same numeric value. That's why there's no meaning to gematria.

except for that, if there was no letter "hey" added to "shishi" in Genesis 1:31, there would have existed nothing at all, also no biblewheel- forum


Exodus 4:11,
But the Lord said to him, "Who gave man a mouth, or who makes [one] dumb or deaf or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord"?

I, the lord = "anochi hashem" אָֽנֹכִ֖י יְהֹוָֽה = 81 + 26 = 107 = "magen david" = the Davidstar in Genesis 1:1 :winking0071:

[sylvius]

Why is that evidence? That word has nothing to do with Exodus 14:14, and lots of words have the same value.

Your methods seem to be entirely irrational.

https://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?6564-Does-the-Number-318-in-Exodus-14-14-prove-gematria-was-being-used&p=72748#post72748

[Richard Amiel McGough]

:confused:
:confused:

Why are you confused? My words were perfectly clear. You should try to answer them. If you can't answer, then you should try asking an intelligent questions. Merely posting a "confused" emoticon is not very helpful.



except for that, if there was no letter "hey" added to "shishi" in Genesis 1:31, there would have existed nothing at all, also no biblewheel- forum

Your words make no sense at all. How would the lack of that letter have prevented the existence of the universe? That's absurd. And your mention of the forum is irrelevant because if nothing existed there is no need to specify anything beyond that.

Talk about confusion! Dude. Your words make no sense at all.



Exodus 4:11,
But the Lord said to him, "Who gave man a mouth, or who makes [one] dumb or deaf or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord"?

I, the lord = "anochi hashem" אָֽנֹכִ֖י יְהֹוָֽה = 81 + 26 = 107 = "magen david" = the Davidstar in Genesis 1:1 :winking0071:
But the Jewish "magen david" is a rather recent invention. It has nothing to do with ancient Israel or the Bible. :lol:

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Mist "ed" is written "alef-dalet" = "1-4" -- source of the 1:4 ratio of the two trees.

Not true. It is written v'ed.

You used to accuse me of "seeking" (making up things not written) if I did what you just did. So you are doing what you reject, which is complete confusion.



But of course it was written by God,
or better dictated by God and written down by Moses :winking0071:
A Christian could say exactly the same thing about the connection between 430 years and nomos (law) in Galatians 3:17.

You appear to have a double standard, which is fundamentally irrational.

[sylvius]

Not true. It is written v'ed. "v'" is prefixed to the word "ed"





A Christian could say exactly the same thing about the connection between 430 years and nomos (law) in Galatians 3:17.

The "nomos" came 430 years after the promise was made - that was a bout the giving of Torah 50 days after they had left Rameses (with gematria 430)

[sylvius]

I don't see how you ever could think that Paul by mentioning the number 430 might have intended to stress the value of Greek "nomos".

And apparently you still do :eek:

[Richard Amiel McGough]

"v'" is prefixed to the word "ed"

That's exactly correct. But when I did the same thing, you accused me of "seeking" and "wood gathering" and used that as an excuse to reject my points. So you have a double standard. Your judgment is unrighteous. You accuse others and then do the same thing yourself.

The really pathetic thing is that you've been doing this for years. I exposed your error many times way back in 2012 (seven years ago!) and yet you continue? Wow. Her'es a link to our previous conversation (https://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3161-Conversations-with-sylvius-Rashi-666-in-Genesis-1-31-etc&p=46211#post46211) if you are interested.

Are you familiar with the word "incorrigible"?

[sylvius]

Lazarus is kind of key-figure in the Gospel of John.

If Jesus wouldn't have called Lazarus from the grave , then he wouldn't have been crucified, and also not resurrected, and wouldn't have been Christ.

[sylvius]

Are you familiar with the word "incorrigible"?

we both are

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I don't see how you ever could think that Paul by mentioning the number 430 might have intended to stress the value of Greek "nomos".

You can't see because you don't want to see. I made the connection between 430 and the law in exactly the same way you made the connection between 318 and Eliezer. Nothing could be more obvious. Except my connection was much better because 430 = 5 x 86 and 86 is the value of Elohim which is the name of God associated with natural law - here's what the Jewish tradition says (as reported by Rabbi Nosson Scherman in the introduction in the book Purim - Its Observance and Significance


Can a logical person see the hand of God and deny its existence? Certainly. God wears a glove called Nature. The Divine Name Elohim which signifies God's mastery over the universe, had the numerical value of 86, the same as that of https://www.biblewheel.com/images/GR/00086H_TheLawsOfNature.gif, the laws of nature. Nature truly exists; it is God's way of exercising control over creation. Can one find natural causes for events? Yes' almost always there are good causes for every effect. When God dispatches angels to do his bidding, they take the form of fires, winning lottery tickets, business upturns, winds that push balls over goal posts, aggressors - the entire panoply of causes and effects that make headlines and history books. So we are always challenged to see the Hand inside the glove.


Thus we have

The Laws of Nature = 86 = Elohim

And LAW (Nomos) = 430 = 5 x 86

Note the connection with 5 and the five letters of Elohim and the 5th Sephira Geburah = Power (as in Judgment, as in application of Law). This all follows established Jewish tradition, as explained by Rabbi Samuel son of Nahman who said "In any place that the Ineffable Name (Hashem) is said is the aspect of mercy, as it is said... In any place that Elokiim is said is the aspect of judgement". And all this integrates nicely with Greek gematria and the NT if you believe that stuff.

My gematria was light years beyond yours.



And apparently you still do :eek:
Ha! Grow a brain. I have told you a thousand times that I don't believe in gematria any more.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

we both are
Bullshit. I have no problem admitting when I am wrong. You, on the other hand, persist in the same errors over a span of years no matter how many times they have been exposed, explained, and proven.

You are absolutely incorrigible. I am nothing like that.

[sylvius]

You can't see because you don't want to see. I made the connection between 430 and the law in exactly the same way you made the connection between 318 and Eliezer.

The 430 years are mentioned in Exodus 12:40 -- Paul picked it up from there - to link it to the pomise God made to Abram: "so will be your seed" (Genesis 15:5)

To read in it that Paul intended to stress the value of Greek "nomos" is just complete nonsense.

The number of 318 initiates born in Abram's house, mentioned in Genesis 14:14 is soon followed by naming Eliezer as the one
to inherit Abram by absence of a son (Genesis 15:2-3)

(Here you see also the link with NT, with Jesus as Abraham's promised seed)

So it's absolutely not exactly the same way.






Nothing could be more obvious. Except my connection was much better because 430 = 5 x 86 and 86 is the value of Elohim which is the name of God associated with natural law - here's what the Jewish tradition says (as reported by Rabbi Nosson Scherman in the introduction in the book Purim - Its Observance and Significance

Torah was given by Hashem, even on the sixth day ("yom hashishi") of the month Sivan.




Thus we have

The Laws of Nature = 86 = Elohim

And LAW (Nomos) = 430 = 5 x 86

Note the connection with 5 and the five letters of Elohim and the 5th Sephira Geburah = Power (as in Judgment, as in application of Law). This all follows established Jewish tradition, which integrates nicely with Greek gematria and the NT if you believe that stuff.

My gematria was light years beyond yours.


:WOW:


Ha! Grow a brain. I have told you a thousand times that I don't believe in gematria any more.

Gematria is not something to believe in.

[sylvius]

Bullshit. I have no problem admitting when I am wrong. You, on the other hand, persist in the same errors over a span of years no matter how many times they have been exposed, explained, and proven.

What is exposed, explained and proven?

That number 666 is not gematria of "yom shishi" ?

That the word "tov" in Genesis 1:12 is not 153rd word from the beginning?

That gematria of "ed" is not 5, coinciding the lettervalue of "hey"?

That "b'hibaram" is not 474th word from the beginning?


You are absolutely incorrigible. I am nothing like that.[/QUOTE]

[Richard Amiel McGough]

The 430 years are mentioned in Exodus 12:40 -- Paul picked it up from there - to link it to the pomise God made to Abram: "so will be your seed" (Genesis 15:5)

To read in it that Paul intended to stress the value of Greek "nomos" is just complete nonsense.

The number of 318 initiates born in Abram's house, mentioned in Genesis 14:14 is soon followed by naming Eliezer as the one
to inherit Abram by absence of a son (Genesis 15:2-3)

(Here you see also the link with NT, with Jesus as Abraham's promised seed)

So it's absolutely not exactly the same way.


I agree it is not "exactly" the same thing. It's not even close. My numerology had some real logic connecting the number 430 with the value of the Greek word "law" since the text itself makes that connection and it is confirmed by connecting with Elohim as the name representing God as manifest in "natural law" which is established in Jewish tradition. This is totally different than the ludicrous idea that the 318 actual people were really a symbol of the one person "Eliezer" merely because that's the value of his name. Nothing could be more absurd. It's those kinds of totally random connections that make rational people reject numerology.



Gematria is not something to believe in.
I'm not interested in your meaningless word games. You obviously "believe in gematria" ... or are you now saying it has no meaning and you've only been pretending to believe in it?

You really are a confused person.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

What is exposed, explained and proven?

That number 666 is not gematria of "yom shishi" ?

That the word "tov" in Genesis 1:12 is not 153rd word from the beginning?

That gematria of "ed" is not 5, coinciding the lettervalue of "hey"?

That "b'hibaram" is not 474th word from the beginning?

Quit pretending to be an idiot. You know exactly what I said was proven. I've explained it to you a million times over the span of years.

[sylvius]

Quit pretending to be an idiot. You know exactly what I said was proven. I've explained it to you a million times over the span of years.

the spam of years ...

[Richard Amiel McGough]

the spam of years ...
Good pun! Your posts really do seem like spam. You almost always ignore the question asked.

If this is all you want to do, please go do it somewhere else.

[sylvius]

Good pun! Your posts really do seem like spam. You almost always ignore the question asked.

If this is all you want to do, please go do it somewhere else.

unhappy host :weep:

[Richard Amiel McGough]

unhappy host :weep:
I'm not unhappy. I'm just calling it as I see it.

[sylvius]

I'm not unhappy. I'm just calling it as I see it.

The biblewheel forum was the only place I could put my things on. I am very grateful for that.

It's in fact a fight with my own thoughts and dreams.

Twitter is also a good place where I can put things on. It has an excellent search-machine.

But reply is needed.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

The biblewheel forum was the only place I could put my things on. I am very grateful for that.

It's in fact a fight with my own thoughts and dreams.

Twitter is also a good place where I can put things on. It has an excellent search-machine.

But reply is needed.
You used to post on TheologyWeb. Did they ban you?

[sylvius]

You used to post on TheologyWeb. Did they ban you?


I can still post on it, but that's of no use, since they do reject beforehand all "numberology" , etc.

[sylvius]

But United States are steeped in numberology

https://twitter.com/Minkmaat/status/1164415405240328192

https://www.academia.edu/12255841/THE_GREAT_SEAL_OF_THE_UNITED_STATES_Freemasonry_in fluence_on_the_American_Pathos?email_work_card=tit le


If I had not previously done the research myself I would not have caught this anomaly in the so-called historical record. President Abraham Lincoln presided over the Civil War, which in a symbolic sense would have been his two families, which is analogous to the two families of Abraham in the book of Genesis. It also goes
analogously to the dawn of Christianity and to the Genesis Formula, which is an extrapolation of the first word of Genesis: BERESHITH. When dissecting Abraham?s two families via Gematria before and after he received the name Abraham a remarkable discovery is made. Both family numerical values totals to a Gematria value of 1863, which is the same year President Abraham Lincoln, freed the slaves. Hagar was Abraham slave and Sarai/Sarah was his wife. Needless to say that this kind of coincidence just doesn?t happen in the world unless a deliberately correlation is made between the two events: one in the bible and the other in real time synching them both into esotericism. The Genesis Formula from the extrapolation of the first word of Genesis has the pattern of 1, 3, 6 and 8 codified into it, which is a transposition of the number 1863. In addition the Calendar Year as introduced by Julius and Augustus Caesars also has the four months with 30-days locked into the Zodiacal calendar: Aries (1), Scorpio (8), Virgo (6) and Gemini (3). These two sets of zodiacal signs are ruled by Mars and Gemini. This arrangement of the zodiacal signs locks in the butterfly like pattern into Zodiac/Calendar years which exudes the glyph of the STAR OF DAVID, which is the star heralding the Birth of Christ and is the same star the Magi followed. Also Bethlehem of Judea is located at 31.68 North Latitude135 and the name Lord Jesus Christ has the Gematria value of 3168. I have discussed all of this above about the American Civil War to point out that Freemasonry is forever revamping history esoterically.

[sylvius]

I don't see how he came to


The Genesis Formula from the extrapolation of the first word of Genesis has the pattern of 1, 3, 6 and 8 codified into it, which is a transposition of the number 1863.


this also interesting



This word "et" translated "beginning and end" (my translation) and spelt ALEPH-TAV [ ]את is used twenty-six times in the first chapter of Genesis (twice in the first verse); however, it is never translated into English or any other vernacular. For me the twenty-six times is symbolic of YAHWEH, which is a word that has a Gematria value of twenty-six. If the initiate understands that the word Elohym (exuding the formula of pi) represents the center and circumference of creation, it then can be understood why Yahweh also represents the beginning and end of creation. Both Yahweh and Elohym are two different and yet the same aspects of the Trinity. Remember that in the New Testament Christ said, "I am the Alpha and the Omega", which is synonymous to ALEPH-TAV .

I mean

"the twenty-six times is symbolic of YAHWEH"

[sylvius]

And this:


In reading the first verse of Genesis "God separated the Heavens and the Earth" from the initiate that has regained his soul: i.e. separated from the heavens (Astrology or religious matters) and the earth: i.e. modernity. The Kundalini symbolizes the initiated free of his religious (Solomon's Temple) and materialistic (desires) shackles, which are no longer needed when walking with God.

Pater Nelis also stressed that the verb "bara", usually translated with "to create", had to be understood in relation to it's pi'el form "beirei" = to cut down trees, fell; to cleave, split.

so with an axe

like said in Matthew 3:10,
Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees

Ellen van Wolde was also pupil of pater Nelis

She denied to me that she had picked up her "discovery" (that "bara" must mean "to separate" and not "to create") from Pater Nelis.

But maybe Pater Nelis had also ties to freemasonry, he indeed was mysterious figure - he lived in a monastery, died very soon after I did find the number 666 in Genesis 1:31, a find that he did appreciate. (like also Weinreb did appreciate)

The cleaving of trees (wood) (of course) has to do with the two trees in paradise, that showed up 1:4 ratio.

[sylvius]

Creation only was complete with man being created.

That is what Genesis 2:1 says:

"and they were completed the heavens and the earth and all their host"

Hebrew וַיְכֻלּ֛וּ = "vay'chulu" and they were completed, finished

verb כָּלָה = to be finished, completed, to end, be destroyed

pi'el form "killah" = to finish, destroy, consume

English "to kill" is said to be an Edenic after this.

So in that sense the axe is not so weird, or sooner at it's right place here

LXX has και συνετελεσθησαν in which you can recognize τέλος

a.o. from the saying ἐγώ [εἰμι] τὸ Ἄλφα καὶ τὸ ω, ἡ ἀρχὴ καὶ τὸ τέλος

"I am the terminator - armed with an axe"

Alcalay gives also : "hacheil v'challeih" = from beginning to end, ftom start to finish, from alpha to omega

[sylvius]

The same notion underlies the explanation of the name "shadai" (Almighty) as "she-omar dai" = he who says, Enough! to his creation.

By saying, Enough! he completed it.

[sylvius]

I now, at once, did see how Genesis 28:13 is related to this:

And behold, the Lord was standing over him, and He said, "I am the Lord, the God of Abraham your father, and the God of Isaac; the land upon which you are lying to you I will give it and to your seed.

Rashi:

and the God of Isaac: Although we do not find in Scripture that the Holy One, blessed be He, associates His name with that of the righteous during their lifetimes by writing "the God of so-and-so," for it is said (Job 15:15):"Lo! He does not believe in His holy ones," [i.e., God does not consider even His holy ones as righteous until after their deaths, when they are no longer subject to the evil inclination,] nevertheless, here He associated His name with Isaac because his eyes had become dim, and he was confined in the house, and he was like a dead person, the evil inclination having ceased from him (Tanchuma Toledoth 7).

the evil inclination having ceased from him = "v'yetzer hara pasak mimmennu"

"pasak" = to stop, cease, interrupt, discontinue; to cut off, divide, tear, split


Isaac's eyes said having become dim on mount Moriah at the moment Abraham was ready to cut of his throat (= kill him; "throat" = Dutch "keel", German "Kehle"; Dutch "kelen" = English "to kill")

Rashi on Genesis 27:1,

When Isaac was bound on the altar, and his father was about to slaughter him, the heavens opened, and the ministering angels saw and wept, and their tears fell upon Isaac?s eyes. As a result, his eyes became dim (Gen. Rabbah 65:6)

This event conincided the crucifiction of Jesus, where Jesus said, John 19:30, ] Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν, Τετέλεσται: καὶ κλίνας τὴν κεφαλὴν παρέδωκεν τὸ πνεῦμα

Τετέλεσται from τελέω, the same verb that LXX used to translate "vay'chulu" = and they were completed (Genesis 2:1)

Isaac, with his dim eyes and the evil inclination having ceased from him was the one to find hundredfold, "meah sh'arim" = 666 (Genesis 26:12)

So that fits as a bus :winking0071: = entirely right

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Creation only was complete with man being created.

That is what Genesis 2:1 says:

"and they were completed the heavens and the earth and all their host"

Hebrew וַיְכֻלּ֛וּ = "vay'chulu" and they were completed, finished

verb כָּלָה = to be finished, completed, to end, be destroyed

pi'el form "killah" = to finish, destroy, consume

English "to kill" is said to be an Edenic after this.

So in that sense the axe is not so weird, or sooner at it's right place here

LXX has και συνετελεσθησαν in which you can recognize τέλος

a.o. from the saying ἐγώ [εἰμι] τὸ Ἄλφα καὶ τὸ ω, ἡ ἀρχὴ καὶ τὸ τέλος

"I am the terminator - armed with an axe"

Alcalay gives also : "hacheil v'challeih" = from beginning to end, ftom start to finish, from alpha to omega
Back when I was a believer, I connected כָּלָה a with כַּלָּה (bride) like we see in this verse:

Isaiah 62:5: For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.

Even now, as an unbeliever, this seems to be a very significant connection since the whole point of the Bible is the consummation or completion of creation when the Church (Bride) is united with Christ, as we see in this verse:

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

This seemed really significant to me because the Song of Solomon aligns with Revelation on Spoke 22, the Spoke of Consummation which "completes the circle" of the whole Bible. I wrote about this in my article called Spoke 22: The Bride of Christ (https://www.biblewheel.com/Wheel/Spokes/tav_bride.php).

At least that's how it seemed to me when I was a believer! :p

[sylvius]

Back when I was a believer, I connected כָּלָה a with כַּלָּה (bride) like we see in this verse:



according to Italie the word for bride ""kallah" is derived from "kalal" = to complete, perfect.

"kalal" https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3634.htm

"kalah" https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3617.htm

So there is similarity between the notions

The sabbath is also welcomed as a bride.

Ask the rabbi:

http://www.jewishanswers.org/ask-the-rabbi-2913/the-sabbath-as-a-bride)

[Richard Amiel McGough]

according to Italie the word for bride ""kallah" is derived from "kalal" = to complete, perfect.

"kalal" https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3634.htm

"kalah" https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3617.htm

So there is similarity between the notions

The sabbath is also welcomed as a bride.

Ask the rabbi:

http://www.jewishanswers.org/ask-the-rabbi-2913/the-sabbath-as-a-bride)
Correct. I addressed those points in my old article Spoke 22: The Bride of Christ (https://www.biblewheel.com/Wheel/Spokes/tav_bride.php) where I noted that rabbinical tradition calls the Sabbath HaShem's "Bride" and that gematra "confirms" that connection, as well as the connection with the number 7 because

The Sabbath (HaShabbat) = 707 = His Bride (eshto)

I thought that was a pretty good "hit." Of course, now I just see it as a nice coincidence if you are inclined to believe the Bible and gematria.

[sylvius]

Isaac's bride was found by Abraham's 318 initiates who were born in his house :winking0071:

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Isaac's bride was found by Abraham's 318 initiates who were born in his house :winking0071:
Good one. :lol:

Of course, your joke shows how silly it is for that old tradition to say Eliezer was not a man, but really 318 men ... or that 318 men were really just one man. :dizzy:

[sylvius]

Good one. :lol:

Of course, your joke shows how silly it is for that old tradition to say Eliezer was not a man, but really 318 men ... or that 318 men were really just one man. :dizzy:

And Rebecca was three years old when she married Isaac.

From these things you may infer that the bible is not very much intersted in historical facts -- despite Christian objestions:

https://www.simplybible.com/f80q-notes-rebekah-age-married-Isaac.htm

[Richard Amiel McGough]

And Rebecca was three years old when she married Isaac.

From these things you may infer that the bible is not very much intersted in historical facts -- despite Christian objestions:

https://www.simplybible.com/f80q-notes-rebekah-age-married-Isaac.htm
Or we can infer that the tradition is wrong.

Or better, we can conclude that both tradition and the Bible are largely fiction.

BTW - thanks for the link. I studied the Bible for a long time but was not aware of this one.

[sylvius]

The word "siach" with gematria 318 from Genesis 2:5 ("v'chol siach hassadeh terem yiyeh baaartz") comes back in Genesis 24:63,

וַיֵּצֵ֥א יִצְחָ֛ק לָשׂ֥וּחַ בַּשָּׂדֶ֖ה, "vayeitzei yitzchak l'suach bassadeh" = and Isaac went out to meditate in the field -

After this Jewish prayerbook is called "siach yitzchak"

Also clear indication that it is all about a deeper meaning behind the superficial text.

Superficial text is "the law", "ho nomos", Paul mentions all the time as oppsoite to "faith".

[Richard Amiel McGough]

The word "siach" with gematria 318 from Genesis 2:5 ("v'chol siach hassadeh terem yiyeh baaartz") comes back in Genesis 24:63,

וַיֵּצֵ֥א יִצְחָ֛ק לָשׂ֥וּחַ בַּשָּׂדֶ֖ה, "vayeitzei yitzchak l'suach bassadeh" = and Isaac went out to meditate in the field -

After this Jewish prayerbook is called "siach yitzchak"

Also clear indication that it is all about a deeper meaning behind the superficial text.

Superficial text is "the law", "ho nomos", Paul mentions all the time as oppsoite to "faith".
If we want to play that game, I can say that you are only reading the superficial text when you say that Paul says the law is the opposite of faith. You know he spoke of the "law of faith" and said "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

So there ya go! You can pretty much make up anything you like from a book as confused as the Bible. :winking0071:

[Richard Amiel McGough]

So there ya go! You can pretty much make up anything you like from a book as confused as the Bible. :winking0071:
And you can multiply that by a million when you include gematria and symbolic interpretations.

[sylvius]

If we want to play that game, I can say that you are only reading the superficial text when you say that Paul says the law is the opposite of faith. You know he spoke of the "law of faith" and said "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

So there ya go! You can pretty much make up anything you like from a book as confused as the Bible. :winking0071:


John 1:17,

For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Moses failed to reveal the source by hitting the rock with his staff instead of speaking to it.

The source being the "ed" ("1-4") of Genesis 2:6

source of all existence.

In LXX translated with πηγή

πηγη δε ανεβαινεν εκ της γης και εποτιζεν παν το προσωπον της γης

Revelation 21:6 is about it:
ἐγὼ τῷ διψῶντι δώσω ἐκ τῆς πηγῆς τοῦ ὕδατος τῆς ζωῆς δωρεάν

and John 4:14,
ὃς δ' ἂν πίῃ ἐκ τοῦ ὕδατος οὗ ἐγὼ δώσω αὐτῷ, οὐ μὴ διψήσει εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα, ἀλλὰ τὸ ὕδωρ ὃ δώσω αὐτῷ γενήσεται ἐν αὐτῷ πηγὴ ὕδατος ἁλλομένου εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον.



it's just crystall-clear

tried to explain (many times)

https://twitter.com/Minkmaat/status/985750227641688064

[Richard Amiel McGough]

John 1:17,

For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Moses failed to reveal the source by hitting the rock with his staff instead of speaking to it.

The source being the "ed" ("1-4") of Genesis 2:6

source of all existence.

In LXX translated with πηγή

πηγη δε ανεβαινεν εκ της γης και εποτιζεν παν το προσωπον της γης

Revelation 21:6 is about it:
ἐγὼ τῷ διψῶντι δώσω ἐκ τῆς πηγῆς τοῦ ὕδατος τῆς ζωῆς δωρεάν

and John 4:14,
ὃς δ' ἂν πίῃ ἐκ τοῦ ὕδατος οὗ ἐγὼ δώσω αὐτῷ, οὐ μὴ διψήσει εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα, ἀλλὰ τὸ ὕδωρ ὃ δώσω αὐτῷ γενήσεται ἐν αὐτῷ πηγὴ ὕδατος ἁλλομένου εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον.



it's just crystall-clear

tried to explain (many times)

https://twitter.com/Minkmaat/status/985750227641688064
Well, one man's "crystal clear revelation" is another man's babble, as you obviously know, since that's what you said about the stuff I used to believe. Right? :lol:

[sylvius]

Well, one man's "crystal clear revelation" is another man's babble, as you obviously know, since that's what you said about the stuff I used to believe. Right? :lol:

We both saw the light :winking0071:

But seemingly different lights,
and your light extinguished, while my lamp still burns


Ha the keys:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_I8wR1vb9M

[sylvius]

I don't know how to upload images to your forum

So via twitter

"Thy Key"

https://twitter.com/Minkmaat/status/1165145370512502784

"Kaph Suffix" is also last letter of ten commandments (in both versions)

Of which was said that it is the stone fallen from Lucifer's crown

since (first version) of ten commandments is written with 620 letters and 620 is gematria of "keter"= crown.

https://twitter.com/search?q=Lucifer%27s%20crown%20minkmaat&src=typed_query

The whole world was in search for it.

It must have fallen in a brook, I thought.

[sylvius]

one forgets things --

430 (numerical value of Greek "nomos") is also gematria of "tohu vavohu" in Genesis 1:2,

https://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?6481-Bible-Wheels&p=71161#post71161


Israel's first exile was in Egypt where they spent a period of 430 years (Exodus 12,40). This number corresponds to the numerical value of the letters in the words תהו ובהו, Tohu Vavohu.

And also that I made thoughts by then

https://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?6481-Bible-Wheels&p=71160#post71160

One makes thoughts and forgets again ...

yet it was a good thought

[Richard Amiel McGough]

We both saw the light :winking0071:

But seemingly different lights,
and your light extinguished, while my lamp still burns


Ha the keys:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_I8wR1vb9M
Different only in details, not in essence.

We were both in a kind of dream. I simply woke up. You dream on. Maybe that's a good thing ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54BCLYNkFKg

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I don't know how to upload images to your forum

You should see a tool bar when you are writing your post. Point your mouse to that button, the tooltip should say "Insert picture." Click on it and you can either upload a pic from your computer or put in a url to a pic on the net.

2438

[sylvius]

You should see a tool bar when you are writing your post. Point your mouse to that button, the tooltip should say "Insert picture." Click on it and you can either upload a pic from your computer or put in a url to a pic on the net.

it doesn't work

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I don't know how to upload images to your forum

So via twitter

"Thy Key"

https://twitter.com/Minkmaat/status/1165145370512502784

"Kaph Suffix" is also last letter of ten commandments (in both versions)

Of which was said that it is the stone fallen from Lucifer's crown

since (first version) of ten commandments is written with 620 letters and 620 is gematria of "keter"= crown.

https://twitter.com/search?q=Lucifer%27s%20crown%20minkmaat&src=typed_query

The whole world was in search for it.

It must have fallen in a brook, I thought.
Here's the image from your twitter:

2439

So why do you say our "light" was different when in fact we were doing the same thing? The only difference was in the details it seems.


Case in point, I wrote a big article about the connection between the number 620, Crown, and all the ten commandments. I was particularly impressed that Keter Torah = 1231 = The Ten Commandments and that his has been celebrated in Jewish religious art for centuries (see here (https://www.biblewheel.com//GR/GR_TenC.php)).

2440


I could never understand why you constantly attacked and rejected my work when I had so much evidence that you would normally accept. It seemed like total madness. Case in point, you see my reference to the "Holy Oracle" = 620 in that pic? You REJECTED it saying that it was "sought" because the actual words written in the text was "thy holy oracle" and I removed the pronomial suffix to get The Holy Oracle. Your rejection was ludicrous because you do exactly the same when you remove the vav from v'ed to get ed = 1 + 4 and when you remove the heh to get yom shishi. I found the original post from way back in May of 2012 (https://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?2605-God-s-10-Spokes-in-Genesis-1-620-letters&p=44880#post44880) where you raised this dispute. We were talking about the same thing back then, the Ten Commandments. And here we are, going round and round in the same circles ... seems like your only purpose in life is to disagree ... even when you agree ... just because you like to disagree. What a waste of time.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

it doesn't work
What happens when you click on it?

What browser are you using?

[sylvius]

What happens when you click on it?

What browser are you using?


it appeared like it was uploaded , but then there also came an exclamation mark --and nothing happened further.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

it appeared like it was uploaded , but then there also came an exclamation mark --and nothing happened further.
Was there text by the exclamation mark that said what the problem was?

What browser are you using?

[sylvius]

Here's the image from your twitter:

2439

So why do you say our "light" was different when in fact we were doing the same thing? The only difference was in the details it seems.


Case in point, I wrote a big article about the connection between the number 620, Crown, and all the ten commandments. I was particularly impressed that Keter Torah = 1231 = The Ten Commandments and that his has been celebrated in Jewish religious art for centuries (see here (https://www.biblewheel.com//GR/GR_TenC.php)).

2440


I could never understand why you constantly attacked and rejected my work when I had so much evidence that you would normally accept. It seemed like total madness. Case in point, you see my reference to the "Holy Oracle" = 620 in that pic? You REJECTED it saying that it was "sought" because the actual words written in the text was "thy holy oracle" and I removed the pronomial suffix to get The Holy Oracle. Your rejection was ludicrous because you do exactly the same when you remove the vav from v'ed to get ed = 1 + 4 and when you remove the heh to get yom shishi. I found the original post from way back in May of 2012 (https://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?2605-God-s-10-Spokes-in-Genesis-1-620-letters&p=44880#post44880) where you raised this dispute. We were talking about the same thing back then, the Ten Commandments. And here we are, going round and round in the same circles ... seems like your only purpose in life is to disagree ... even when you agree ... just because you like to disagree. What a waste of time.

it's not "holy oracle" but "oracle of your holiness" דְּבִ֥יר קָדְשֶֽׁךָ

holy oracle would be "d'vir kadosh" ( I think)

[sylvius]

Was there text by the exclamation mark that said what the problem was?

What browser are you using?

I posted it on twitter

https://twitter.com/Minkmaat/status/1165287901288120320

[Richard Amiel McGough]

it's not "holy oracle" but "oracle of your holiness" דְּבִ֥יר קָדְשֶֽׁךָ

holy oracle would be "d'vir kadosh" ( I think)

And that's exactly what I said seven years ago! Here is what I wrote (note: my transliteration of "kadosheka" was wrong, it should have been kadsheka).




You wrote "d'vir kodesh", but meant "d'vir kadosh", which is a pleonasm, because "d'vir" is already the name of the holy of holies.

and "kadosh" is ususally written with "vav".

Dt. 14:2,

כִּי עַם קָדוֹשׁ אַתָּה

Dt. 26:19 being an exception, you computerd up for to get your own right.
I wrote kadosheka and kadosh in the four examples I gave:



עַם-קָדְשֶׁךָ
.
Am Kadosheka (Isaiah 63:18)


עַם-קָדֹשׁ
.
Am Kadosh (Deut 26:19)






דְּבִיר קָדְשֶׁךָ
.
D'vir Kadosheka (Psalm 28:2)


דְּבִיר קָדֹשׁ
.
D'vir Kadosh (Not written)



It was a simple typo when I wrote "d'vir kodesh." You can't make a case out of a typo - your posts are filled with many typos.

And it wouldn't matter if kadosh is "usually" written with a vav. You said it is wrong to write it the way it is written in the Bible. You have been proven wrong. But you won't admit it. It's sad that you don't you realize what this does to your credibility.

It is absurd for you to say that I "computered up for to get your own right." I used the computer to find the facts that prove you are wrong. But you still won't admit it. This makes all your posts suspect. If you refuse to admit an incontrovertible fact when it is staring you in the face, why should anyone believe anything you say?


What kind of insanity rules your mind? The vowel points are irrelevant to the numerical value. The numerical value is based on the consonants. And you yourself admit that the consonants spell "Holy Oracle" if the right vowels are used.

This is the most elementary fact that any child with basic knowledge of rabbinic tradition would understand. Please stop acting like an idiot. It is exceedingly tedious.

You need to admit you were wrong on this point.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I posted it on twitter

https://twitter.com/Minkmaat/status/1165287901288120320
If you click on the exclamation point, does it show any message?

What browser are you using? Try it with a different browser.

[sylvius]

[QUOTE=Richard Amiel McGough;72826]

You need to admit you were wrong on this point.

ok, I was wrong to pretend that I do know these things better.

Same thing you have with "holy spirit"

"ruach hakodesh" = the spirit of holiness"

holy spirit would be "ruach (ha)kadosh"

Greek τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον

(the late) Prof. Mordochai ben-Tziyyon contended that the Christians are flat out wrong with their Holy Spirit since it is the spirit of holiness.

But I don't know, although I do think he might have been right

[sylvius]

If you click on the exclamation point, does it show any message?

What browser are you using? Try it with a different browser.

I don't what know "browser" is / what browser I am using / how i could use another browser.

I do always use Firefox.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

ok, I was wrong to pretend that I do know these things better.

Cool. :thumb:

But I wasn't complaining about you pretending to "know these things better." My complaint was that you pretended NOT to know that D'vir Kadosh = 620 was a perfectly valid Hebrew fact, which also connected very well with the other patterns relating to the crown = 620 and the number of letters in the Ten Commandments and the fact that the Crown of the Torah = 1231 = The Ten Commandments, etc., etc., etc.

This is why conversation with you can be so tedious and pointless. You should have admitted these simple facts years ago.




Same thing you have with "holy spirit"

"ruach hakodesh" = the spirit of holiness"

holy spirit would "ruach hakadosh"

Again, the vowels are totally irrelevant to the numerical values. You are being tediously tendentious.



Greek τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον

(the late) Prof. Mordochai ben-Tziyyon contended that the Christians are flat out wrong with their Holy Spirit since it is the spirit of holiness.

But I don't know, although I do think he might have been right
Sure, there is a big difference between "the spirit of holiness" and "the Holy Spirit" but there's no way for anyone to prove their interpretation is correct, so it's all meaningless potsherds clashing with potsherds in my estimation.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I don't what know "browser" is / what browser I am using / how i could use another browser.

I do always use Firefox.
Firefox is a browser. It's what you use to view the internet.

Other common browsers are Google's Chrome, Microsoft's Edge or IE (Internet Explorer). The iPhone uses Safari. And Android has their own browser.

[sylvius]

Cool. :thumb:
My complaint was that you pretended NOT to know that D'vir Kadosh = 620 was a perfectly valid Hebrew fact, which also connected very well with the other patterns relating to the crown = 620 and the number of letters in the Ten Commandments and the fact that the Crown of the Torah = 1231 = The Ten Commandments, etc., etc., etc.

I don't see what gain there should be in stressing D'vir Kadosh = 620 , ( while in fact it is 626) a phrase that even never ocurs in the bible.


This is why conversation with you can be so tedious and pointless. You should have admitted these simple facts years ago.

I didn't share your enthousiasm



Again, the vowels are totally irrelevant to the numerical values. You are being tediously tendentious.

Example was also "kochav" = star.

Without "vav" it has value 42; wich coincides the 42 generations from Abraham to Jesus and the 42 stations of the children of Israel in the desert, of which Rameses was first and plains of Moab last, where Bileam came to prophesy the star

especially since Abraham in Genesis 15 had to count the stars to get an idea of his offspring.



Sure, there is a big difference between "the spirit of holiness" and "the Holy Spirit" but there's no way for anyone to prove their interpretation is correct, so it's all meaningless potsherds clashing with potsherds in my estimation.

not meaningless, it has great implications (Trinity etc.)

[sylvius]

2442

via windows

it is your key :winking0071:

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I don't see what gain there should be in stressing D'vir Kadosh = 620 , ( while in fact it is 626) a phrase that even never ocurs in the bible.

It is not a "fact" that is is 626, and if you insist that it never occurs in Scripture because of the pronomual suffix kaph then your "ed" never occurs in Scripture because of the conjunctive prefix vav.

As for "gain" - I doubt there is anything to be gained by these number games. They prove nothing but the power of selection bias and confirmation bias to delude the practitioners into the belief that they have discovered some big "secret" concerning the ultimate nature and meaning of reality.





his is why conversation with you can be so tedious and pointless. You should have admitted these simple facts years ago.
I didn't share your enthousiasm

It doesn't require enthusiams to admit the truth. Simple honesty and integrity is all you need for that.





Sure, there is a big difference between "the spirit of holiness" and "the Holy Spirit" but there's no way for anyone to prove their interpretation is correct, so it's all meaningless potsherds clashing with potsherds in my estimation.
not meaningless, it has great implications (Trinity etc.)
I didn't say that the implications of the interpretations were meaningless. I said that the interpretations themselves are meaningless because there is no way for anyone to prove who is right or wrong. It all comes down to personal opinion, which is just potsherds clashing with potsherds.

Isaiah 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

[Richard Amiel McGough]

2442

via windows

it is your key :winking0071:
I'm glad you figured it out. But what do you mean "via windows"?

[sylvius]

I'm glad you figured it out. But what do you mean "via windows"?

i used windows as browser

[Richard Amiel McGough]

i used windows as browser
Windows is an operating system, not a browser.

Do you mean that you used Microsoft Edge? Or Microsoft Internet Explorer (IE) on a computer running windows as an operating system?

What version of Windows are you using?

[sylvius]

It is not a "fact" that is is 626, and if you insist that it never occurs in Scripture because of the pronomual suffix kaph then your "ed" never occurs in Scripture because of the conjunctive prefix vav.


"d'vir kadshecha" --"kadshecha" is possessive form of "kodesh" = holiness, sanctity, holy temple


Alqalai has for "kadesh": male (cult) prostitute (in the worship of Baal and Astarte); sodomite.

("k'deshah" = female (cult) prostitute, harlot.)

"d'vir kadesh" the holy place of the male prostitute or the place of the holy prostitute


Those three leters, "kuf", "dalet", "shin", are also in "d'meshek", Damascus, where Eliezer came from and where Paul saw the light

[sylvius]

Windows is an operating system, not a browser.

Do you mean that you used Microsoft Edge? Or Microsoft Internet Explorer (IE) on a computer running windows as an operating system?

What version of Windows are you using?

I installed windows 10 and below is a blue e I never use . I think it's internet Explorer.

[sylvius]

"d'vir kadshecha" --"kadshecha" is possessive form of "kodesh" = holiness, sanctity, holy temple


Alqalai has for "kadesh": male (cult) prostitute (in the worship of Baal and Astarte); sodomite.

("k'deshah" = female (cult) prostitute, harlot.)

"d'vir kadesh" the holy place of the male prostitute or the place of the holy prostitute


Those three leters, "kuf", "dalet", "shin", are also in "d'meshek", Damascus, where Eliezer came from and where Paul saw the light

Deuteronomy 23:18,
There shall not be a prostitute {"k'deshah") of the daughters of Israel, and there shall not be a male prostitute ("kadesh") of the sons of Israel.

Rashi:

There shall not be a prostitute: Heb. קְדֵשָׁה, one who is unbridled, prepared (מְקֻדֶּשֶׁת), and ready for prostitution

and there shall not be a male prostitute: Heb. קָדֵשׁ, one [i.e., a male] ready for homosexual relations. - [Kid. 68b] Onkelos , however, renders: "A woman of the daughters of Israel shall not become a wife to a slave." [Nevertheless, Onkelos 's explanation does not contradict that given above, for] such [a woman] is also susceptible to illicit relations, since this sort of marriage is not legally binding. For [slaves] are compared to donkeys, as it says,"[B]Stay here with the donkey (עִם-הַחֲמוֹר)" (Gen. 22:5). [The choice of the word] עִם [rather אֶת [denotes] those compared to a donkey. - [Kid. 68a] [Abraham said this to his lads when he left them to take Isaac to offer him as a sacrifice. The lads were both slaves, both Eliezer and Ishmael, the son of his handmaid, Hagar. Similarly, the second half of the verse is rendered by Onkelos as follows:]"And no Israelite man shall take a maidservant as a wife," since he too, becomes a קָדֵשׁ ["one reserved for illicit relations"] through her, because every time he cohabits with her, it is considered prostitution, since his marriage to her is not binding. ? [See Pes. 88b]

So Eliezer (i.e. the 318 trained servants of Abraham) was a "kadesh", so no wonder that he came from "d'meshek" :winking0071:

Donkey - "chamor" -related to "chomer" = clay, loam -- the material out of which the human body was formed -- gematria 248 - like of (circumcised) Abraham

"chomer" is also a measure, donkey-burden, 1 "chomer" = 100 (hundredfold =666) "omer"

which I thought to be the secret behind Jesus entering Jerusalem seated on a donkey,

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Deuteronomy 23:18,
There shall not be a prostitute {"k'deshah") of the daughters of Israel, and there shall not be a male prostitute ("kadesh") of the sons of Israel.

Rashi:

So Eliezer (i.e. the 318 trained servants of Abraham) was a "kadesh", so no wonder that he came from "d'meshek" :winking0071:

Donkey - "chamor" -related to "chomer" = clay, loam -- the material out of which the human body was formed -- gematria 248 - like of (circumcised) Abraham

"chomer" is also a measure, donkey-burden, 1 "chomer" = 100 (hundredfold =666) "omer"

which I thought to be the secret behind Jesus entering Jerusalem seated on a donkey,
So you go straight from "holy" to prostitute. Cool. That pretty much sums up the bullshit of kabbalah.

[sylvius]

So you go straight from "holy" to prostitute. Cool. That pretty much sums up the bullshit of kabbalah.

that's why of course Jesus said, Matthew 21:31,
Amen, I say to you, tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God before you.

Maybe this even is after Deuteronomy 23:18, since LXX mentions besides πορνη also τελεσφορος

ουκ εσται πορνη απο θυγατερων ισραηλ και ουκ εσται πορνευων απο υιων ισραηλ ουκ εσται τελεσφορος απο θυγατερων ισραηλ και ουκ εσται τελισκομενος απο υιων ισραηλ

τελεσφορος is from τελεσφορέω =1) bring fruit to ripeness 2) pay taxes / toll

what τελισκομενος might mean, I don't know (it's not in my dictionary)

Next verse, Deuternomy 23:19,
You shall not bring a prostitute's fee or the price of a dog, to the House of the Lord, your God

which might echo in Matthew 27:6-9,
The chief priests gathered up the money, but said, "It is not lawful to deposit this in the temple treasury, for it is the price of blood." After consultation, they used it to buy the potter's field as a burial place for foreigners. That is why that field even today is called the Field of Blood.

Judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss (Matthew 26: 48-49)

https://twitter.com/search?q=kiss%20minkmaat&src=typed_query

maybe out of jealousy because of Jesus' (kind of) homosexual relationship with Lazarus , who was at Jesus' breast during the last supper

[sylvius]

telospheros = sorceress -- dedicated -- initiated in the mysteries
teliskomenos = initiated person

https://books.google.nl/books?id=ZXAVf8m_HKgC&pg=PA129&lpg=PA129&dq=teliskomenos&source=bl&ots=ZmXI__g8A8&sig=ACfU3U3Mz7oMUcaimlfVDMtR_y76xRhW8Q&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiroP-PoZ7kAhXPKlAKHTZND3wQ6AEwAXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=teliskomenos&f=false

[Richard Amiel McGough]

that's why of course Jesus said, Matthew 21:31,
Amen, I say to you, tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God before you.

Nah ... looks like he said that to insult the religious leaders.

Jesus wasn't kind of a prude when came to sex. That's why he said that merely looking on a woman with lust was equivalent to adultery.



maybe out of jealousy because of Jesus' (kind of) homosexual relationship with Lazarus , who was at Jesus' breast during the last supper
Where did you get that idea? Have you forgotten that Jesus talked about becoming a "eunuch" for the kingdom?

[sylvius]

Nah ... looks like he said that to insult the religious leaders.

Jesus wasn't kind of a prude when came to sex. That's why he said that merely looking on a woman with lust was equivalent to adultery.

= that all of society is adulterous

he spoke also of "adulterous generation" -- being the same generation as "this generation" of which the preterists contend that this was just a first century generation (like if the now living generation shouldn't be adulterous)





Where did you get that idea? Have you forgotten that Jesus talked about becoming a "eunuch" for the kingdom?

eunuchs can have physical love

[sylvius]

Eunuchs can have physical love

Potiphar was an eunuch

Genesis 39:1,
Now Joseph had been brought down to Egypt, and Potiphar, Pharaoh's eunuch, (LXX ο ευνουχος φαραω )chief of the slaughterers, an Egyptian man, purchased him from the Ishmaelites who had brought him down there.



Genesis 41:45,
And Pharaoh named Joseph Zaphenath Pa'neach, and he gave him Asenath the daughter of Poti phera, the governor of On, for a wife, and Joseph went forth over the land of Egypt.

Rashi:


Poti-phera: He is Potiphar, but he was called Poti-phera because he became emasculated since he desired Joseph for homosexual relations. - [from Sotah 13b]

[sylvius]

And Pharaoh named Joseph Zaphenath Pa'neach

Rashi:

Zaphenath-Pa'neach: He who explains hidden things
מפרש הצפונות, "m'phareish hatzafunot"

https://twitter.com/Minkmaat/status/744905143401984004


Baal Haturim:

Gematria of Tzafnat Pa'neach 828 same as of "m'galeh m'sutarim" = revealer of things that have been hidden

Mark 10:34,
χωρὶς δὲ παραβολῆς οὐκ ἐλάλει αὐτοῖς, κατ' ἰδίαν δὲ τοῖς ἰδίοις μαθηταῖς ἐπέλυεν πάντα.

without parable he dind't speak to them, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything

κατ' ἰδίαν = privately, alone, apart

ἐπιλύω = 1) to unloose, untie 2) to clear (a controversy), decide, settle 3) to explain (what is obscure and hard to understand)

[sylvius]

but privately to his own disciples he explained everything

like of "hundredfold" = "meah sh'arim" = 666 = "yom shishi" :winking0071:

[sylvius]

like of "hundredfold" = "meah sh'arim" = 666 = "yom shishi" :winking0071:


the letter "hey" added to "shishi" is the same letter that was added to the name Abram --

Abraham's namechange was followed by Abraham circumcising himself and all the (318) members of his household (=Eliezer) and also Ishmael, the two lads who would accompany Abraham and Isaac on their way to mount Moriah.

Circumcision being the sign of the covenant.

But how one ever comes to circumcise oneself?

It needs deliberation I would say, kind of homosexual deliberation

Like also Rashi on Genesis 14:13,

Abram's confederates: lit. the masters of Abram?s covenant. Because they made a covenant with him. (Other editions add: Another explanation of [בַּעֲלֵי בְּרִית]: They gave him advice concerning circumcision (Aggadath Bereishith 19:3), as is explained elsewhere) (below 18:1). [According to Aggadath Bereishith, the covenant mentioned is that of circumcision.]

Is it (also) "sign of the covenant betwen the parts"?
Genesis 15:18, On that day, the Lord formed a covenant with Abram, saying, "To your seed I have given this land, from the river of Egypt until the great river, the Euphrates river.


The 430 years (as mentioned by Paul in his letter to the Galatians) in fact started with Abram asking "bamah eida" בַּמָּ֥ה אֵדַ֖ע, by what will I know? , in Genesis 15:8.

Rashi on Genesis 2:6,

And he believed in the Lord: He did not request of Him a sign regarding this, but regarding the inheritance of the land, he did request of Him a sign, and he said to Him, "How will I know?" [from Ned. 32a]

If Abram wouldn't have asked maybe there would have been no Egyptian bondage too, no Exodus and no giving of Torah on mount Sinai, and no covenant of circumcision.

This was the answer:
And He said to Abram, You shall surely know ("yadoa teida" יָדֹ֨עַ תֵּדַ֜ע) that your seed will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and they will enslave them and oppress them, for four hundred years.

Jesus' crucifiction (by some ) is seen as fulfillment of the four hundred years, since 400 is value of the letter "tav" that is seen as the cross

And so, by that, the covenant of circumcision had lost it's meaning.

like also implicated by Rashi's comment on Genesis 15:5,

Abram will have no son, but Abraham will have a son. Similarly, Sarai will not give birth, but Sarah will give birth. I will give you another name, and your destiny will change (Ned. 32a, Gen. Rabbah 44:10).

It's not the circumcised one who will have a son, but the one with the added letter "hey" in his name -- by which he became control over all his 248 organs, also over his eyes, his ears and his male organ

Rashi on Genesis 17:1,

"and be perfect" - Now you are missing [control over] five organs: two eyes, two ears, and the male organ. I will add a letter to your name, and the numerical value of your letters [of your name] will be 248, corresponding to the number of your organs (Tan. Lech Lecha 16, Ned. 32b).

[sylvius]

Is it (also) "sign of the covenant between the parts"?
Genesis 15:18, On that day, the Lord formed a covenant with Abram, saying, "To your seed I have given this land, from the river of Egypt until the great river, the Euphrates river.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_of_the_pieces


The covenant found in Genesis 12-17 is known in Hebrew as the Brit bein HaBetarim, the "Covenant Between the Parts", and is the basis for brit milah (covenant of circumcision) in Judaism


https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/246614/jewish/Abrahams-Covenant-With-Gd-The-Brit-Bein-HaBetarim.htm

[sylvius]

from the river of Egypt until the great river, the Euphrates river.

which happen to be the first and the fourth river that went out of Eden

Geneis 1:11,
The name of the one is Pishon

Rashi:

Pishon: This is the Nile, the river of Egypt, and because its waters are blessed, and they rise and water the land, it is called Pishon, like Habakkuk 1:8):"and their riders shall increase (וּפָשׁוּ) ." (Unknown midrash, quoted by Zeror Hamor, below 41:1, Letters of Rabbi Akiva). Another explanation: [It is called] Pishon because it causes flax (פִשְׁתָן) to grow, as is stated in reference to Egypt (Isa. 19:9):"And those who work at flax (פִּשְׁתִּים)?shall be ashamed" (Gen. Rabbah 16:2).

so it is about the one river that separated from Eden to become four heads, by thus expressing the 1:4 source = the "ed" of Genesis 2:6

"400" (from the four hundred years Abraham 's offspring would be strangers in a land that was not theirs) being the furthest expression of "4"

etc.

I learned these thing from Weinreb ( "De Bijbel als Schepping"-- translated "The Roots of the Bible" https://www.academia.edu/11288759/Roots_of_the_Bible_by_Friedrich_Weinreb )

[sylvius]

Genesis 15:5-9,

And He took him outside, and He said, "Please look heavenward, "habet-na hashamaymah", and count the stars, if you are able to count them." And He said to him, "So will be your seed."
And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him as righteousness.
And He said to him, "I am the Lord, Who brought you forth from Ur of the Chaldees, to give you this land,"et- haaretz hazot", to inherit it."
And he said, "O Lord God, how will I know that I will inherit it?"

I thought:

"I will give you this land from which you did look up heavenward"

"Ur of the Chaldees" the sphere steeped in astrology.

Rashi on Genesis 15:5,

And He took him outside: According to its simple meaning: He took him out of his tent, outdoors, to see the stars. But according to its midrashic interpretation, He said to him,"Go out of your astrology," for you have seen in the signs of the zodiac that you are not destined to have a son. Indeed, Abram will have no son, but Abraham will have a son. Similarly, Sarai will not give birth, but Sarah will give birth. I will give you another name, and your destiny will change (Ned. 32a, Gen. Rabbah 44:10)


Another explanation: He took him out of the terrestrial sphere and lifted him above the stars. This explains the expression of הַבָּטָה, looking down from above (Gen. Rabbah 44:12).


"out of the terrestrial sphere and lifted him above the stars" - into the intergalactial space

if you've been there the earth gets another meaning


אֶת־הָאָ֥רֶץ הַזֹּ֖את, "et-haaretz hazot" -- it is the same earth that was mentioned in Genesis 1:1 and taken up in Genesis 1:2

"haaretz"= 296 = 8 x 37 :winking0071:

[sylvius]

Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the 8 x 37, that was without form and void with darkness lying on the deep, when God said: "Let there be light" :winking0071:

[sylvius]

Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the 8 x 37, that was without form and void with darkness lying on the deep, when God said: "Let there be light" :winking0071:

which corresponds fine to this:

https://www.sefaria.org/Or_HaChaim_on_Genesis.1.1.60?ven=Or_Hachayim,_tran s._Eliyahu_Munk&lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en


2443

[sylvius]

Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the 8 x 37, that was without form and void with darkness lying on the deep, when God said: "Let there be light" :winking0071:

Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth that was without form and void at the moment God said: "Let there be the light of the pressed olive"

https://twitter.com/search?q=pressed%20olive%20minkmaat&src=typed_query

[sylvius]

Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth that brought forth "tree making fruit" instead of "tree fruit making fruit" , of which God saw that it was good (Genesis 1:12)

Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth that became dry on the 365th day after the beginning of the flood (Genesis 8:14)

[sylvius]

Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth that brought forth "tree making fruit" instead of "tree fruit making fruit" , of which God saw that it was good (Genesis 1:12)

Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth that became dry on the 365th day after the beginning of the flood (Genesis 8:14)

most meek man ever was Moses (Numbers 12:3), who did have sex with an Ethiopian woman "ishah kushit" , a sorceress, since "kishuf"(= sorcery) is said to be derived from "kush" (= Ethiopia)

Rashi:

Cushite: כֻּשִׁית. Its numerical value is equal to יְפַת מַרְאֶה, beautiful in appearance

"beautiful in appearance" was also said of Joseph in Potiphar's house, Genesis 39:6, only that here is written יפֵ֥ה מַרְאֶֽה


I thought the Cushite woman to be Andromeda, who is also in the starry sky with in her the Andromeda Nebula, through which you can become extremely high, experience mind-expansion.

Moses also had a son Eliezer, named the same as Abraham's 318 trained servants, whom he failed to circumcize, so that his wife Tzipporah had to do it in a night lodging, wich was a bloody affair.

The same night lodging Hebrew"malon", Greek "kataluma", is said to have refused shelter to the carpenter Joseph and his pregnant fiancee but later on being the place where Jesus should serve his last supper.