The 3rd "Day"..

[duxrow]

Examples of "3rd Day" significance include:

a. "The 3rd day the Lord will come down"... Ex19:11.

b. Hezekiah goes up to the House of the Lord on the 3rd Day - 2K20:5.

c. "..In the 3rd Day he will raise us up..", Hos6:2.

d. Samson gave a 3-day notice to solve his riddle, Judg14:14, and paid off with garments when they solved it by "plowing with his heifer" (fig. of speech for 'conversing w his mate').

........................................ :cheerleader5:

"When money failed in the land of Egypt", Gen47:15. We find this phrase applying to the time just prior to the great Exodus of the people under the leadership of Moses. Today, as Christians await the return of their Lord and Saviour Jesus, they're anticipating another Exodus.
'Course, not everyone believes $17T is a failure of USA finances.. oops!

:smash: Been working on the design for the square rifle to shoot square bullets.. hah

[sylvius]

Examples of "3rd Day" significance include:

a. "The 3rd day the Lord will come down"... Ex19:11.

b. Hezekiah goes up to the House of the Lord on the 3rd Day - 2K20:5.

c. "..In the 3rd Day he will raise us up..", Hos6:2.

d. Samson gave a 3-day notice to solve his riddle, Judg14:14, and paid off with garments when they solved it by "plowing with his heifer" (fig. of speech for 'conversing w his mate').

........................................ :cheerleader5:

"When money failed in the land of Egypt", Gen47:15. We find this phrase applying to the time just prior to the great Exodus of the people under the leadership of Moses. Today, as Christians await the return of their Lord and Saviour Jesus, they're anticipating another Exodus.
'Course, not everyone believes $17T is a failure of USA finances.. oops!

:smash: Been working on the design for the square rifle to shoot square bullets.. hah

Gensis 1:12-13,


And the earth gave forth vegetation, seed yielding herbs according to its kind, and trees producing fruit, in which its seed is found, according to its kind, and God saw that it was good.

And it was evening, and it was morning, the third day.

"and God saw that it was good" , Hebrew: "vayar elohim ki-tov"

That was strange, since the earth didn't do what God had asked.
God asked for " fruit trees producing fruit"(v.11) and the earth gave just forth "trees producing fruit" -- or better, God asked Hebrew "ets pri oseh pri" and the earth gave forth "ets oseh pri" -- so something with one word too little.

And yet next is written "and God saw that it was good" --

"good"= "tov", of which gematria is seventeen. The "tov" in v.12 being the 153rd word from the beginning. 153 = triangle 17 (1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10+11+12+13+14+15+16+17). That's very amazing, ain't it?

You can count after: http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8165#showrashi=true

Might it have anything to do with the miraculous fishcatch of John 21, you think?

Or also with the third day on which Jesus said the son of man would be resurrected?

[duxrow]

Gensis 1:12-13,


And the earth gave forth vegetation, seed yielding herbs according to its kind, and trees producing fruit, in which its seed is found, according to its kind, and God saw that it was good.

And it was evening, and it was morning, the third day.

"and God saw that it was good" , Hebrew: "vayar elohim ki-tov"

That was strange, since the earth didn't do what God had asked.
God asked for " fruit trees producing fruit"(v.11) and the earth gave just forth "trees producing fruit" -- or better, God asked Hebrew "ets pri oseh pri" and the earth gave forth "ets oseh pri" -- so something with one word too little.

And yet next is written "and God saw that it was good" --

"good"= "tov", of which gematria is seventeen. The "tov" in v.12 being the 153rd word from the beginning. 153 = triangle 17 (1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10+11+12+13+14+15+16+17). That's very amazing, ain't it?

You can count after: http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8165#showrashi=true

Might it have anything to do with the miraculous fishcatch of John 21, you think?
Can't think of any connection there, but love the 'tav' at 153.
Or also with the third day on which Jesus said the son of man would be resurrected?Good report, Sylvie..(other thread too) - I recently read where 4,000 yr. old seeds were found in a sealed coffin and the seeds sprouted! after water (mist) applied.

John 15:1 KJV "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman".

Gen2:8 KJV "And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed".

[sylvius]

If the earth would have brought forth "ets pri oseh pri" on the third day, like God had asked, then the six days of creation wouldn't have formed a door to the seventh day, for then the first chapter of Genesis would have contained 435 words instead of 434, 434 being the gematria of "delet", door.

[duxrow]

If the earth would have brought forth "ets pri oseh pri" on the third day, like God had asked, then the six days of creation wouldn't have formed a door to the seventh day, for then the first chapter of Genesis would have contained 435 words instead of 434, 434 being the gematria of "delet", door.
Whoops! Sylvie--First the 6 Days of Creation; THEN the 6 Days for mankind to do his thing; THEN the Door comes to open our Rest.. So no door after that initial 3rd Day..OK? (but 'e' for effort):duck:

Ex20:9 "Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. :pray:

[Richard Amiel McGough]

If the earth would have brought forth "ets pri oseh pri" on the third day, like God had asked, then the six days of creation wouldn't have formed a door to the seventh day, for then the first chapter of Genesis would have contained 435 words instead of 434, 434 being the gematria of "delet", door.
God didn't "ask" - the text says he "said." Like when he said "Let there be light."

Are you saying it would have been possible for God to say "Let there be light" and the light could have failed to be created? I didn't know you thought God was so weak that he couldn't even be sure if his creative commands would be fulfilled. How then did he manage to create anything?

[Richard Amiel McGough]

for then the first chapter of Genesis would have contained 435 words instead of 434
And there would have been 448 words if he had added "Beware of making up your own private speculative doctrines out of nothing like silvius."

[Richard Amiel McGough]

"good"= "tov", of which gematria is seventeen. The "tov" in v.12 being the 153rd word from the beginning. 153 = triangle 17 (1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10+11+12+13+14+15+16+17). That's very amazing, ain't it?

What's amazing about cherry picking one meaningless coincidence? Is there a similar connection with the indexes of any of the other words? If not, your comment is nothing but an example of selection bias, which creates the illusion of a pattern when none exists.

[sylvius]

God didn't "ask" - the text says he "said." Like when he said "Let there be light."

Are you saying it would have been possible for God to say "Let there be light" and the light could have failed to be created? I didn't know you thought God was so weak that he couldn't even be sure if his creative commands would be fulfilled. How then did he manage to create anything?

It is the mystery Mark 4:11 talks about.


It has to do with the light.

The first "tov" of Genesis was about the light: God saw the light that it was good.

Which is about the light of the first day, that immediately was taken away again so that evildoers could not make use of it.

So where it reads in v.13 "And God saw that it was good" - you might consider that the evildoers didn't see it, and don't do so until the present day. "This is so that they can look and see but have no insight, and they can hear but not understand. Otherwise, they might turn their lives around and be forgiven."

[sylvius]

What's amazing about cherry picking one meaningless coincidence? Is there a similar connection with the indexes of any of the other words? If not, your comment is nothing but an example of selection bias, which creates the illusion of a pattern when none exists.

It is the miraculous fishcatch of John 21, also expressed in Ezekiel 47:12, Fishermen will stand beside the sea. From Eingedi to Eineglaim it will be a place for the spreading of nets. Its fish will be of very many kinds, like the fish of the Great Sea.


"g'di"= 17
"eglayim" = 153.

"ein" = "ayin" - name of the 16th letter, coinciding Greek Omikron, that you might think the saying "I am the Alpha and the Omega" is about the same mystery of the third "tov" of Genesis.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

It is the miraculous fishcatch of John 21, also expressed in Ezekiel 47:12, Fishermen will stand beside the sea. From Eingedi to Eineglaim it will be a place for the spreading of nets. Its fish will be of very many kinds, like the fish of the Great Sea.


"g'di"= 17
"eglayim" = 153.

"ein" = "ayin" - name of the 16th letter, coinciding Greek Omikron, that you might think the saying "I am the Alpha and the Omega" is about the same mystery of the third "tov" of Genesis.
I agree that those are interesting coincidences. But coincidences are expected in any large set of data like the Bible. Check out the site called Spurious Correlations (http://io9.com/our-new-favorite-website-spurious-correlations-1574464459). Your job, if you want to suggest it is anything but a meaningless coincidence, is to provide evidence supporting that assertion. Good luck with that.

If you don't provide any evidence, your claims will be no different than those of any numerologist. For example, the Muslims say that there is overwhelming proof that Allah designed the Quran on the number 19. They have a pretty good case (by the "standards" commonly used by numerologists) because the text itself says that the number 19 rules over it. So they troll through the text looking for anything and everything that can be connected with the number 19, and come up with lists as long as Gambini's posts about the "overwhelming evidence" of the "patterns" he finds in the Bible.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

What's amazing about cherry picking one meaningless coincidence? Is there a similar connection with the indexes of any of the other words? If not, your comment is nothing but an example of selection bias, which creates the illusion of a pattern when none exists.

It is the miraculous fishcatch of John 21, also expressed in Ezekiel 47:12, Fishermen will stand beside the sea. From Eingedi to Eineglaim it will be a place for the spreading of nets. Its fish will be of very many kinds, like the fish of the Great Sea.


"g'di"= 17
"eglayim" = 153.

"ein" = "ayin" - name of the 16th letter, coinciding Greek Omikron, that you might think the saying "I am the Alpha and the Omega" is about the same mystery of the third "tov" of Genesis.
You totally ignored my question.

[sylvius]

You totally ignored my question.

It was not a question but an assertion.

Besides that you know,or at least you might have known by now, that the name of God, the Tetragrammaton, is present in the initial letters of "yom hashishi" (the last two words of Genesis 1) and "vay'chulu hashamayim" (the first two words of Genesis 2), name that otherwise doesn't occur in the first story of creation. It is the place of his name, right at the entrance of Sabbath.

My big finding was that if you leave out the letter "hey" from "hashishi", not only the name of God is no longer present, but also the number 666 appears as gematria of "yom shishi" -- which is really astounding. At least when I saw it it was as if I was struck by lightning.

That same letter became added to the name of Abraham, the father of all believers.

"hashishi" is the 434th word from the beginning; which would not have been the case if the earth had brought forth "ets pri oseh pri".

"b'hibaram" in Genesis 2:4 is the 474th word from the beginning. 474 being gematria of "da'at"= knowledge.

"hibaram" being written with the same letters as Abraham.

"b'hibaram" might can be read as "for the sake of Abraham" or "with the letter "hey" they were created"

"b'hibaram" seems to be the last word of the first story of creation.

[Snakeboy]

I wonder, speaking of spurious correlations, how many verses use the number 153 and also have 119 letters in them ?

[sylvius]

I wonder, speaking of spurious correlations, how many verses use the number 153

As far as I know just one, viz. John 21:11.



and also have 119 letters in them ? Why 119 letters? (Hebrew?)

[Snakeboy]

As far as I know just one, viz. John 21:11.


Why 119 letters? (Hebrew?)

Why ?

beats me :lol:

I don't make heads or tails of these things, I just note them and move on

I just noticed it while looking at the various bijections, injections, etc, between sets, was curious how many verses have 119 letters

[sylvius]

Why ?

beats me :lol:

I don't make heads or tails of these things, I just note them and move on

I just noticed it while looking at the various bijections, injections, etc, between sets, was curious how many verses have 119 letters

Go and count!

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0101.htm

[duxrow]

Enuf already! :focus: The THIRD DAY meant Life and/or Death for some..happened on the Pharaoh's birthday!

The dreams of the Butler and Baker, Gen40, were interpreted by Joseph as being Life & Death on the 3rd Day. The Butler dreamed about the CUP, and the Baker dreamed about the Bread. The Butler squeezed grapes (a type of Communion), and the Baker had the wrong kind of bread in his 'top basket'. :eek:

[Snakeboy]

Go and count!

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0101.htm

Wow, you sound upset :D

[Richard Amiel McGough]

"What's amazing about cherry picking one meaningless coincidence? Is there a similar connection with the indexes of any of the other words? If not, your comment is nothing but an example of selection bias, which creates the illusion of a pattern when none exists.

You totally ignored my question.


It was not a question but an assertion.

Not true. I highlighted my question in red to help you see it.



Besides that you know,or at least you might have known by now, that the name of God, the Tetragrammaton, is present in the initial letters of "yom hashishi" (the last two words of Genesis 1) and "vay'chulu hashamayim" (the first two words of Genesis 2), name that otherwise doesn't occur in the first story of creation. It is the place of his name, right at the entrance of Sabbath.

My big finding was that if you leave out the letter "hey" from "hashishi", not only the name of God is no longer present, but also the number 666 appears as gematria of "yom shishi" -- which is really astounding. At least when I saw it it was as if I was struck by lightning.

Yes, I'm familiar with your obsession. You have been repeating the same words on this forum for many years now. I don't know why you are repeating them yet again since they have nothing to do with the question I asked.



That same letter became added to the name of Abraham, the father of all believers.

"hashishi" is the 434th word from the beginning; which would not have been the case if the earth had brought forth "ets pri oseh pri".

And it would not have been the case if any other words were changed. You can't make a case from things that could have been written but weren't.



"b'hibaram" in Genesis 2:4 is the 474th word from the beginning. 474 being gematria of "da'at"= knowledge.

And it's the value of 60 other words in the Tanakh. How do you know which one was intended? And for that matter, why would anyone think that a being of infinite intelligence would communicate through such an ineffective method so prone to confusion and bias? Do you even believe in God? Every time I have tried to talk to you about your beliefs all I got was confusion. Sometimes you talk like Jesus is the Messiah sometimes you talk like he's nothing. It really makes no sense.



"hibaram" being written with the same letters as Abraham.

"b'hibaram" might can be read as "for the sake of Abraham" or "with the letter "hey" they were created"

Why should anyone believe that? It's just an old tradition someone made up. How do you discern between truth and fiction? Do you even try?

[sylvius]

Not true. I highlighted my question in red to help you see it. " your comment is nothing but an example of selection bias, which creates the illusion of a pattern when none exists."



Yes, I'm familiar with your obsession. You have been repeating the same words on this forum for many years now. I don't know why you are repeating them yet again since they have nothing to do with the question I asked. why should I bother your assaults?



And it would not have been the case if any other words were changed. Nothing has been changed.


You can't make a case from things that could have been written but weren't. That the letter "hey" was added to "shishi" was also recognized by Rashi: http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8165#showrashi=true
the sixth day: Scripture added a “hey” on the sixth [day], at the completion of the Creation .... The other day-indications do without "hey": "yom echad, yom sh'ni, yom sh'lishi, yom r'vi'i, yom chamishi"



And it's the value of 60 other words in the Tanakh. How do you know which one was intended? From Luke 11:52, and of course from the second story of creation, from the tree of knowlege of good and evil, meausuring 4 x the tree of life (ratio 1:4).


nd for that matter, why would anyone think that a being of infinite intelligence would communicate through such an ineffective method so prone to confusion and bias? I thought you was done with the Biblegod.


Do you even believe in God? My God is the one present in the initial letters of "yom hashishi vay'chulu hashamayim".



Why should anyone believe that? "b'hibaram" happens to be the 474th word from the beginning, which wouldn't have been the case when te earth had brought forth "ets pri oseh pri" instead of "ets oseh pri". [/QUOTE]

[sylvius]

This was a strong one:

https://twitter.com/Pontifex


https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/3735685951/65947354d67ddc1be85289076ddde449_400x400.jpeg

Pope Francis @Pontifex · 4h

The martyrs teach us that wealth, prestige and honor have little importance: Christ is the only true treasure.

Jesus was murdered on the sixth day and was laid in the grave exactly at the entrance of Sabbath. That's how the letter "hey" became fixed to "shishi", to allude to the (well-known) sixth day of Sivan, i.e. the 50th day after the second day of Pesach, on which God made his name, i.e. the Tetragrammaton hidden in the initial letters of "yom hashishi vay'chulu hashamayim", known: "I am Hashem your God who did lead you out of Egypt out of the house of bondage"

Rashi:

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8165#showrashi=true


“the sixth day” : They [the works of creation] were all suspended until the “sixth day,” referring to the sixth day of Sivan, which was prepared for the giving of the Torah (Shab. 88a). [The“hey” is the definite article, alluding to the well-known sixth day, the sixth day of Sivan, when the Torah was given (ad loc.).]

[sylvius]

There indeed is a war going on:

https://twitter.com/RabbiGinsburgh


https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1149048991/180px-Rabbi_Yitzchak_Ginsburgh_400x400.jpg

Rabbi Y. Ginsburgh @RabbiGinsburgh · Aug 10

So the Israeli-Arab conflict does indeed boil down to a religious conflict. There is no way around it.

[sylvius]

The religious war indeed seems to boil down on the letter "hey" that was added to the name of Abraham, Abram becoming Abraham, and was also added to "shishi".

Muslims don't know about Abraham's name change.

It is something inherent to the Hebrew bible, to Hebrew language and Hebrew alphabet.

Genesis 25:8-9, And Abraham expired and died in a good old age, old and satisfied, and he was gathered to his people. And Isaac and Ishmael his sons buried him in the Cave of Machpelah in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which faces Mamre.


Rashi:

Isaac and Ishmael: (Gen. Rabbah 30:4, 38:12) From here [we may deduce] that Ishmael repented and let Isaac go before him, and that is the meaning of “a good old age” which is stated regarding Abraham (above 15:15). -

On that same day Esau sold his birthright to Jacob:

Genesis 25:30,
And Esau said to Jacob, "Pour into [me] some of this red, red [pottage], for I am faint"; he was therefore named Edom.

Rashi:

[B]some of this red, red [pottage]: red lentils. And on that day, Abraham died, lest he see Esau, his grandson, falling into bad ways, for that would not be the “good old age” that the Holy One, blessed be He, had promised him. Therefore, the Holy One, blessed be He, shortened his life by five years, for Isaac lived one hundred and eighty years, and this one (Abraham) [lived] one hundred and seventy-five years, and Jacob cooked lentils to feed the mourner (Isaac). But why lentils? Because they are [round as] a wheel, for mourning is like a wheel revolving in the world. (Also, just as lentils have no mouth [no crack], as other beans have, so does the mourner have no mouth, for he is prohibited from speaking. It is therefore the custom to feed the mourner eggs at the beginning of his meal, since they are round, and have no mouth. So too does a mourner have no mouth, as is discussed in Mo’ed Katan (21b): “A mourner, for the entire first three days, may not respond to anyone’s greeting, and may surely not initiate a greeting. From the third day to the seventh, he may respond, but may not greet, etc.” [This is found] in an old [edition of] Rashi.)- [From Gen. Rabbah 63:12, B.B. 16b]

This shortening by five years seemingly corresponds the letter "hey", that was added to Abraham's name.

There is another thing about five years.
Abraham left Charan when 75 years old, Genesis 12:4.

But the covenant between the pieces, Genesis 15, took place when Abraham was 70 years old, i.e. 430 years before the exodus from Egypt (Exodus 12:40-41). Paul knows about that too! (Galatians 3:17)

Romans 6:3, Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?


Death at the completion of creation.

v. 4, We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

[duxrow]

Sylvie, Why don't the muslims know?
New Names are a theme of Scripture: Abraham, Jacob (Israel), Solomon (Jedidiah), and the "new name on a white stone" of Rev2:17.

[duxrow]

Jesus was murdered on the sixth day and was laid in the grave exactly at the entrance of Sabbath. That's how the letter "hey" became fixed to "shishi", to allude to the (well-known) sixth day of Sivan, i.e. the 50th day after the second day of Pesach, on which God made his name, i.e. the Tetragrammaton hidden in the initial letters of "yom hashishi vay'chulu hashamayim", known: "I am Hashem your God who did lead you out of Egypt out of the house of bondage" ]
Balderdash, IMO. In order for the full 3 Days and 3 Nights (as per Jonah), the Crucifixion of the Lamb must have happened on Wednesday (see diagram). That's when they "seethed the kid in his mother's milk", Ex34:26 (Mary was there, looking on helplessly.).

1237

[sylvius]

Sylvie, Why don't the muslims know?
New Names are a theme of Scripture: Abraham, Jacob (Israel), Solomon (Jedidiah), and the "new name on a white stone" of Rev2:17.

I thought they know Abraham as Ibrahim who brought Ismael as sacrifice.

[duxrow]

:yo: Sure and it's a puzzle, Sylvie, but it IS SOLVABLE! Too many take the easy out by just calling them 'discrepancies' or 'exceptions', and I sympathize they hadn't the Bible Study aids of modern times, but maybe that was God's intention to begin with ?? You think? :aim14:

[sylvius]

:yo: Sure and it's a puzzle, Sylvie, but it IS SOLVABLE! Too many take the easy out by just calling them 'discrepancies' or 'exceptions', and I sympathize they hadn't the Bible Study aids of modern times, but maybe that was God's intention to begin with ?? You think? :aim14:

There is some higher intelligence in Jewish scripture, perfectly expressed in the word בְּהִבָּרְאָם, "b'hibaram", the 474th word from the beginning and the last word of the first story of creation, that begins with בְּרֵאשִׁית בָּרָא, "b'reishit bara"; that you might think "b'hibaram" and "b'reishit bara" do express the same, which again is about the name of God present in the initial letters of יוֹם הַשִּׁשִּׁי, "yom hashishi", the last two words of Genesis 1:31, and of וַיְכֻלּוּ הַשָּׁמַיִם, "vay'chulu hashamayim", the first two words of Genesis 2:1, because "b'hibaram" seemingly alludes to the letter "hey" that was both added to the name Abraham and to "yom hashishi".
Higher intelligence that is missed in Islam and also in Christianity and also in the Jewish world, but not in NT-scripture.

[duxrow]

There is some higher intelligence in Jewish scripture, perfectly expressed in the word בְּהִבָּרְאָם, "b'hibaram", the 474th word from the beginning and the last word of the first story of creation, that begins with בְּרֵאשִׁית בָּרָא, "b'reishit bara"; that you might think "b'hibaram" and "b'reishit bara" do express the same, which again is about the name of God present in the initial letters of יוֹם הַשִּׁשִּׁי, "yom hashishi", the last two words of Genesis 1:31, and of וַיְכֻלּוּ הַשָּׁמַיִם, "vay'chulu hashamayim", the first two words of Genesis 2:1, because "b'hibaram" seemingly alludes to the letter "hey" that was both added to the name Abraham and to "yom hashishi".
Higher intelligence that is missed in Islam and also in Christianity and also in the Jewish world, but not in NT-scripture.Yes, Moslems CLAIM that Ishmael was 'promised son', but Islam had plenty of time to examine the Torah before they came out with the koran (a bogus commentary). They didn't just misinterpret -- they contradicted what the Bible said, and added their own hateful agenda. :doh:

[sylvius]

There is some higher intelligence in Jewish scripture, perfectly expressed in the word בְּהִבָּרְאָם, "b'hibaram", the 474th word from the beginning and the last word of the first story of creation, that begins with בְּרֵאשִׁית בָּרָא, "b'reishit bara"; that you might think "b'hibaram" and "b'reishit bara" do express the same, which again is about the name of God present in the initial letters of יוֹם הַשִּׁשִּׁי, "yom hashishi", the last two words of Genesis 1:31, and of וַיְכֻלּוּ הַשָּׁמַיִם, "vay'chulu hashamayim", the first two words of Genesis 2:1, because "b'hibaram" seemingly alludes to the letter "hey" that was both added to the name Abraham and to "yom hashishi".
Higher intelligence that is missed in Islam and also in Christianity and also in the Jewish world, but not in NT-scripture.


"higher intelligence" = the most high God, Hebrew "el elyon", Greek "ho theos ho hupsistos", Latin " Deus excelsus", of whom Melchizedek was priest?

Melchizedek came with bread and wine to bless Abraham to the most high God "who has delivered your adversaries into your hand" , after Abraham did defeat the four kings in favor of the five with assistance of his 318 trained servants. "318" being the hint at the world of numbers, since it is gematria of the name Eliezer, Abraham's servant.


"bread and wine" - לֶחֶם וָיָיִן , "lechem vayayin" - in numbers 78 (+ 6) +70 =148 = "pesach" (80+60+8).

"lechem" being root of "milchamah"= war.

The war of the four kings against the five being the first war mentioned, the "Mother Of All Wars".

I presume the end of all wars is the entombment of Abraham by Isaak and Ishmael.

[sylvius]

Genesis 25:9

And Isaac and Ishmael his sons buried him in the Cave of Machpelah in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which faces Mamre,

"Machpelah"= double -- from "kafal" = to double. increase, multiply, fold, repeat, duplicate.

Rashi uses it to explain "la'asot" , the last word of Genesis 2:3, as kind of explanation of the letter "hey"in "hashishi":

And God blessed the seventh day and He hallowed it, for thereon He abstained from all His work that God created to do.

Rashi:

The work that was fit to be done on the Sabbath, He doubled up and did it on the sixth [day], as is explained in Genesis Rabbah (11:9).

"The work that was fit to be done on the Sabbath"= creation of man.

So when God proposed Satan "Let us make man" (Genesis 1:26) he left Satan in the presumption that the creation of man was the project for the seventh day, i.e. for our historical reality (of the seventh day it is not said "and it was evening and it was morning" , which means that we do live now in the seventh day). Satan thinking that he had time enough to prevent the success of the enterprise. But while Satan was thinking God did already create man on the sixth day.

This same idea underlies NT; Jesus being buried on the sixth day, when evening had already come, is like the burying of Abraham in the Cave of Machpelah.

[sylvius]

Genesis 17:1-5,
And Abram was ninety-nine years old, and God appeared to Abram, and He said to him, "I am the Almighty God; walk before Me and be perfect.
And I will place My covenant between Me and between you, and I will multiply you very greatly."
And Abram fell upon his face, and God spoke with him, saying,
"As for Me, behold My covenant is with you, and you shall become the father of a multitude of nations.
And your name shall no longer be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham, for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations.


That the letter added to Abraham's name is the same letter that was added to "shishi" might be also clear from God making himself known as "el shaddai".

Rashi:
I am the Almighty God: Heb. שַׁדַּי - I am He Whose Godliness suffices for every creature. [שֶׁ that, דַּי is sufficient]. Therefore, walk before Me, and I will be your God and your Protector, and wherever it (this name) appears in Scripture, it means “His sufficiency,” but each one is [to be interpreted] according to the context. — [from Gen. Rabbah 47:3]


See also this:

http://askmordochai.yuku.com/topic/151/Re-El-Shaddai?page=-1#.U_DtqWOyOUk


The explanation of the Divine Title אֵל שַׁדַּי given by Rashi in his notes on B'réshіt 17:1 is a d'rush; the p'shat is “[He who has] Power” (אֵל, compare B'réshіt 31:29, D'varim 28:32) “over Destructive Forces” (שֵׁדִים, which is associated with the verb שדד to destroy).

"shaddai" after Samson Raphael Hirsch has to be understood as "shèomar dai" = "the one who says: Enough!" to the powers of development, indeed at the completion of creation. Genesis 2:1 "vay'chulu" = and they were completed (the heaven and the earth and all their host.)

It can also be understood as : "the one who says: Enough!" to the "shedim" = demons. Demons trying to prevent you from entering the Sabbath = the kingdom of God.

cf. Mark 1:27,

And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying, What thing is this? what new doctrine is this? for with authority commandeth he even the unclean spirits, and they do obey him.

[sylvius]

"shedim", demons, is written the same as "shadayim", breasts.
http://www.bigbible.org/blog/2007/04/el-shaddai-as-breasted-god_12.htm


, there is at least one interesting passage where the verbal echo functions powerfully. In Gen 49:22ff. where dying Jacob blesses Joseph using a string of divine names and epithets:

... by the hands of the Mighty One of Jacob, by the name of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel,

25 by the God of your father, who will help you, by the Almighty (shadday) who will bless you with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lies beneath, blessings of the breasts and of the womb.

26 The blessings of your father are stronger than the blessings of the eternal mountains, the bounties of the everlasting hills; may they be on the head of Joseph, on the brow of him who was set apart from his brothers.

Here the echoes of שַׁדַּי shadday "Almighty" with שָׁדַיִם shadayim "breasts" resonates strongly, and perhaps is echoed more weakly (in sense if not by sound) with the "eternal mountains" and "everlasting hills" of the next verse. The effect is perhaps to mitigate the exclusively male patriarchal feel of the blessing - especially since שָׁדַיִם shadayim is paired with that most female of words רָחַם racham "womb".

Rashi on "blessings of the breasts and of the womb" :


Heb. בִּרְכֹת שָׁדַיִם וָרָחַם [Onkelos renders:] בִּרְכָתָא דְאַבָּא וּדְאִמָּא, blessings of father and mother. That is to say that the ones who beget the children and the ones who bear the children will be blessed. The males will impregnate with a drop of semen that is fit for conception, and the females will not lose what is in their womb and miscarry their fetuses.

Heb. שָׁדַיִם. ("shadayim") [How does שָׁדַיִם come to mean father?]“He shall be cast down (יָרֹה יִיָּרֶה)” (Exod. 19:13) is translated by the Targum as אִשְׁתְּדָאָה יִשְׁתְּדֵי Here too, [שָׁדַיִם means the father] because semen shoots (יוֹרֶה) like an arrow.

Which seems to be kind of reward for not having had sex with Potiphar's wife.

Rashi:


(from the God of your father) and with the Almighty: And your heart was with the Holy One, blessed be He, when you did not heed your mistress’s orders, and He shall bless you.

Of the incident of Jospeh with Potiphar's wife it is said that Joseph was very willing to lie with her, even that he had already penetrated her, until he saw the likeness (portrait) of his father's face in the window:

Genesis 39:11,
And it came about on a certain day, that he came to the house to do his work, and none of the people of the house were there in the house.

Rashi:
[B]
And it came about on a certain day: That is to say that a special day arrived, a day of rejoicing, a religious festival when they (the household) all went to the temple of their idols. She said, “I have no more fitting day to consort with Joseph than today.” So she said to them,“I am ill, and I cannot go.” [from Sotah 36b]

to do his work: [There is a controversy between] Rav and Shmuel. One said: his actual work, and the other said: to perform his needs with her, but his father’s image appeared, etc., as is stated in Sotah (36b).

"his father's image" = דמות דיוקנו של אביו, "d'mut d'yukan shel aviw" = the likeness of the portrait of his father.

"d'yukan" is also used by Rashi to explain "in the image of God he created him", Genesis 1:27,


It explains to you that the image that was prepared for him was the image of the likeness of his Creator. — [from B.B. 58a] בצלם א-להים ברא אותו: פירש לך שאותו צלם המתוקן לו צלם דיוקן יצורו הוא


of "and God created Adam in his image" he had already said:
In the form that was made for him, for everything [else] was created with a command, whereas he [man] was created with the hands (of God) (...)Man was made with a die, like a coin, which is made by means of a die

So you might think that Joseph was seduced by her breasts.


There seems to be also another wordplay "shaddai"- Almighty/ "shadayim" - breasts / "shamayim"- heaven

the Almighty who will bless you with blessings of heaven above

"yanak" = to suck

i.e. "the heaven gives suck"

http://theyeshiva.net/Article/View/107/Why-Infants-Have-To-Grow-Up-On-Milk


The Mystique of Nursing

The rule of thumb in our world is that sharing something with somebody else constitutes a loss for the giver. If I have it, and give it to you, I lose it; if you have it, and give it to me, you lose it. If you write a check for charity, you checking account is diminished.

An exception to this rule is the milk a mother feeds her suckling. As long as a mother continues sharing her nourishing liquid with the child, her mammary glands will keep on refilling. Furthermore, the quantity of the milk is usually dependent on her sharing it: The more a mother nurses, the greater the flow of milk her body produces. When she ceases to breast feed, her inner production of milk ceases.

This is one of the deeper reasons why G-d created nature in a way that infants are nourished by milk. Through this natural process of infant nourishment, the Kabbalah teaches, a mother is given the opportunity to ingrain within her child's tender consciousness the truth about sharing: The more you give, the more you will receive. Just like the milk that you are now swallowing, my dear child, the more I share it, the more I have it.


"yoneik" = suckling

Isaiah 53:2,
And he came up like a suckling before it, and like a root from dry ground, he had neither form nor comeliness; and we saw him that he had no appearance. Now shall we desire him?

[sylvius]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_education


The Talmud attaches great importance to the "Tinokot shel beth Rabban" (the children [who study] at the Rabbi's house), stating that the world continues to exist for their learning and that even for the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem classes are not to be interrupted (tractate Shabbat 119b).

"tinok" = suckling; from "yanak" = to suck.

[sylvius]

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q262/suivlys/AndIwillmakethynamegreat.jpg (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/suivlys/media/AndIwillmakethynamegreat.jpg.html)

[duxrow]

Bears Repeating! After Hezekiah's 15yr extension, he would "go up unto the house of the LORD on the 3RD DAY", 2K20:5.:woah: He saw "the shadow of the changing times" on his sun dial; like we see the changing and ugly times on our NEWS every morning!

[duxrow]

For those who believe in allegory, Hezekiah had shown the Babylonians his Treasure (like Christians testify to the GOLD of Ps19:10), and he was King of Judah when the Ten Tribes were 'dissolved' (carried away) by the Assyrians..

[duxrow]

"shedim", demons, is written the same as "shadayim", breasts.
http://www.bigbible.org/blog/2007/04/el-shaddai-as-breasted-god_12.htm

Rashi on "blessings of the breasts and of the womb" : Which seems to be kind of reward for not having had sex with Potiphar's wife.

Rashi: Of the incident of Jospeh with Potiphar's wife it is said that Joseph was very willing to lie with her, even that he had already penetrated her, until he saw the likeness (portrait) of his father's face in the window:

Genesis 39:11, And it came about on a certain day, that he came to the house to do his work, and none of the people of the house were there in the house.

Rashi: "his father's image" = דמות דיוקנו של אביו, "d'mut d'yukan shel aviw" = the likeness of the portrait of his father.
"d'yukan" is also used by Rashi to explain "in the image of God he created him", Genesis 1:27,

of "and God created Adam in his image" he had already said: So you might think that Joseph was seduced by her breasts.

There seems to be also another wordplay "shaddai"- Almighty/ "shadayim" - breasts / "shamayim"- heaven
the Almighty who will bless you with blessings of heaven above

"yanak" = to suck i.e. "the heaven gives suck" [/I]STRONGLY DISAGREE! To interject sex to the account of Jacob and Joseph is heinous! Joseph, eleventh son of Jacob, is the 1st of Eleven Joseph's, and his coat of many colors corresponds with how Jesus came in a Body for Salvation to ALL colors and races of mankind.

Had your precious rabbi considered the Joseph son of Jacob in Mt 1:16, they might have noticed only two in Scripture, and how the name Jacob means "supplanted" (to take the place of..). :p

[sylvius]

STRONGLY DISAGREE! To interject sex to the account of Jacob and Joseph is heinous! Joseph, eleventh son of Jacob, is the 1st of Eleven Joseph's, and his coat of many colors corresponds with how Jesus came in a Body for Salvation to ALL colors and races of mankind.

Had your precious rabbi considered the Joseph son of Jacob in Mt 1:16, they might have noticed only two in Scripture, and how the name Jacob means "supplanted" (to take the place of..). :p

Do you think that they were sexless?

[duxrow]

Prolly the rabbi's were.. hah. But seriously, why would anyone get nasty about Joseph having six with Potiphar's daughter, and forget (or nevermind) the more important aspects?

[sylvius]

Prolly the rabbi's were.. hah. But seriously, why would anyone get nasty about Joseph having six with Potiphar's daughter, and forget (or nevermind) the more important aspects?


He didn't have s x with her although he wanted to badly. In the very last moment he withdrew because of seeing his father's face peering through the window. He ran away naked, just like the young man of Mark 14:51-52, after being seized by the soldiers. Because of not having sex with her he was rewarded greatly and blessed by his father.

Genesis 49:25, from the God of your father, and He will help you, and the Almighty will bless you [with] the blessings of the heavens above, the blessings of the deep, lying below, the blessings of father and mother.

Rashi:
and the Almighty will bless you: And your heart was with the Holy One, blessed be He, when you did not heed your mistress’s orders, and [because of this] He shall bless you.

[duxrow]

He didn't have sex with her although he wanted to badly. In the very last moment he withdrew because of seeing his father's face peering through the window. He ran away naked, just like the young man of Mark 14:51-52, after being seized by the soldiers. Because of not having sex with her he was rewarded greatly and blessed by his father.
Sylvia, Methinks the rabbi's have overdone the sauce.. Joseph's father Jacob hadn't left Canaan yet

:pop2: Have you ever wondered about Potiphar and his wife after Joseph was appointed Vice President?
Did Potiphar get a divorce, or wind up in the slammer?

[sylvius]

Sylvia, Methinks the rabbi's have overdone the sauce.. Joseph's father Jacob hadn't left Canaan yet

:pop2: Have you ever wondered about Potiphar and his wife after Joseph was appointed Vice President?
Did Potiphar get a divorce, or wind up in the slammer?


He had a vision of his father's face in the window, but in fact it was a bird, I think a crow.

Potipehra priest of On is said to be the same as Potiphar:

Genesis 41:45,
And Pharaoh named Joseph Zaphenath Pa'neach, and he gave him Asenath the daughter of Poti phera, the governor of On, for a wife, and Joseph went forth over the land of Egypt.

Rashi:

Poti-phera: He is Potiphar, but he was called Poti-phera because he became emasculated since he desired Joseph for homosexual relations. — [from Sotah 13b]

[duxrow]

He had a vision of his father's face in the window, but in fact it was a bird, I think a crow.
Genesis 41:45,
And Pharaoh named Joseph Zaphenath Pa'neach, and he gave him Asenath the daughter of Poti phera, the governor of On, for a wife, and Joseph went forth over the land of Egypt.

Rashi:C'mon now, Sylvie. Why aren't you quoting Scripture concerning the CROW and the Vision -- maybe it was a CANARY and a Stupor? :thpeace_dove_olive_
Sure, Joseph married Asenoth and they had two sons (NO DAUGHTERS) like other pivotal persons in the OT.

26:8 And it came to pass, when he had been there a long time, that Abimelech king of the Philistines looked out at a window, and saw, and, behold, Isaac was sporting with Rebekah his wife. Their two sons "Esau and Jacob" had their birth order emphasized when Jacob grabbed heel of Esau - The LORD had already revealed to Rebekah how they would be "two nations" !:snowfight: Rathi thought 'winter-sport' maybe?

[sylvius]

C'mon now, Sylvie. Why aren't you quoting Scripture concerning the CROW and the Vision -- maybe it was a CANARY and a Stupor? :thpeace_dove_olive_
Sure, Joseph married Asenoth and they had two sons (NO DAUGHTERS) like other pivotal persons in the OT.

26:8 And it came to pass, when he had been there a long time, that Abimelech king of the Philistines looked out at a window, and saw, and, behold, Isaac was sporting with Rebekah his wife. Their two sons "Esau and Jacob" had their birth order emphasized when Jacob grabbed heel of Esau - The LORD had already revealed to Rebekah how they would be "two nations" !:snowfight:

I once read that it is possible to turn into a crow and fly far away (Carlos Castaneda); if he could why not Jacob?

[duxrow]

I once read that it is possible to turn into a crow and fly far away (Carlos Castaneda); if he could why not Jacob?OMG! The Flying Nun wasn't real, Sylvie.. hate to break it to you, but our bones aren't hollow. :huhsign:

You've been reading too much Peter-Pan, maybe, because it sure isn't Scripture! :fred:

[sylvius]

OMG! The Flying Nun wasn't real, Sylvie.. hate to break it to you, but our bones aren't hollow. :huhsign:

You've been reading too much Peter-Pan, maybe, because it sure isn't Scripture! :fred:

Scripture says:

And it came about on a certain day, that he came to the house to do his work, and none of the people of the house were there in the house.

"To do his work" like all other "men at work"?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTdzeEtQVO1aNVJ_b-t6ouVjcuzX0Nf9RuodR2gUF3fS2afweKdlw

[sylvius]

And,of course, "shaddai" = 314 = Metatron = Pi.

And as such bound to the sixth day,
since in the first story of creation only 21 letters are used, no "samech". ("samech" being written round as a closed circle)
The first "samech" of the Torah appears in Genesis 2:11, The name of one is Pishon; that is the one that encompasses all the land of Havilah, where there is gold.

"that encompasses" - הוּא הַסֹּבֵב,"hu hassoveiv"

The first story of creation being about seven days.

21/7 < Pi < 22/7

So you can see that creation is not an enclosed entity, but leaving a little opening, the circle becoming a spiral.

The little opening, even like a neele's eye, being in the letter "hey" of "hashishi".

"yom shishi" having gematria 666, "yom hashishi" 671, the quantitave difference indeed being very small. (and I bet after this Peleg's brotehr was called Yoktan = the litle one (like also the meaning of the Latin name Paulus = Paul). Peleg and Yoktan forming the15th generation of the 26 gnerations from Adam until the revelation at mount Sinai, so forming the "y-h"-part of the name, that is in the initial letters of "yom hashishi").

This must be also the principle of circumcision.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=circumcision

circumcision (n.) Look up circumcision at Dictionary.com
late 12c., from Latin circumcisionem (nominative circumcisio), noun of action from past participle stem of circumcidere "to cut around; cut, clip, trim," from circum "around" (see circum-) + caedere "to cut" (see -cide).

[sylvius]

http://www.kabbalahart.com/gallery/tashuv-hey/





http://www.kabbalahart.com/wp-content/uploads/Tashuv-Hey.jpg

Tashuva תשובה means to return to G-D. In the Zohar it is explained that the word teshuva can be understood on a mystical level as tashuv-hey תשוב-ה returning the letter hey ה.

It is explained in the Kabbalah that the only thing which separates us from the experience of G-D, is that we have been created within a temporary situation of desiring to receive for ourselves. As G-D has no need or desire to receive, it is this state of being which makes us presently different and therefore separated from the experience of the Divine. It is explained in the Kabbalah, that we have been given the spiritual work of working towards the transformation of our desire to receive for ourselves, towards attaining the elevated spiritual consciousness of desiring to give in the state of pure unconditional love.

The Kabbalah explains how the Divine name י-ה-ו-ה describes our spiritual reality. In one way of understanding, the 4 letters of the Divine name represent 4 aspects of our inner consciousness:

The bottom ה is associated with our desire to receive for the self (the place of conditional love). The upper ה is associated with the desire to give (the place of unconditional love). The ו represents the interface which allows for the transformation between these two states of being and is associated with Torah. The letter י represents experiencing the infinite Divine goodness in the state of unconditional love and oneness.

The Kabbalah explains that it is through the transformation of the lower ה within ourselves, the place which is only self-love, to the place of the upper ה, the love of all (the greater self), that we become united with our Creator, expanding from a finite experience which contains the suffering of separation, to the realization of oneness in the revelation of G-D’s infinite goodness.

The Torah is understood on a Kabbalistic level as the key to the transformation of consciousness from self concern towards concern for the other –the transformation from the limited consciousness which can be contained in self-desire, towards the limitless consciousness which can be experienced in the becoming of unconditional love.

This painting depicts the upper and lower ה of the Divine name. The י and the ו are implied: the ו as the spiritual progression towards the realization of oneness, and the י as the infinite unconditional love of the One at the root of our every moment.

[duxrow]

".. It came to pass the third day after that I was delivered, that this woman was delivered also: and we were together; there was no stranger with us in the house, save we two in the house". 1K3:18 KJV

CUT THE BABY IN HALF! :eek: The wisdom given Solomon is manifested in his decision about the two women who both claimed the same baby. http://cswnet.com/~duxrow/Wisdom.htm

[duxrow]

And,of course, "shaddai" = 314 = Metatron = Pi.

So you can see that creation is not an enclosed entity, but leaving a little opening, the circle becoming a spiral.

The little opening, even like a neele's eye, being in the letter "hey" of "hashishi".
"..Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk". Ex34:26
We translate: The young goat would die and be boiled in his mother's milk -- strange?
The word "seethe" is translated many ways: to boil, cook, bake, roast, ripen, grow ripe. (Heb: bashal Strong#1310) Think 'prepared food, final stage'. Now Jesus was spoken of as "the lamb of God", and in the OT the scapegoat was part of the ritual for the Day of Atonement, Lev16:8,. when the sins of all the people were placed on the head of the scapegoat (he wasn't responsible, but took the blame).

WITH HIS FATHER/MOTHER LOOKING ON! This law was written three times in the OT, so it can't be accidental, and yet the Jews interpreted it to mean they should separate dairy from meat products. hah! Don't blame them! The Holy Spirit only came on one person at a time in the OT -- he didn't arrive for all mankind until after Jesus returned to the Father, and those OT priests and rabbi's may have been doing their best, but were before the time of the New Covenant.

IMO, they ignorantly 'seethed a kid in his mother's milk' when they crucified Jesus on the cross with his mother looking on helplessly.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

"..Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk". Ex34:26
We translate: The young goat would die and be boiled in his mother's milk -- strange?

And that's why Jews can't eat cheeseburgers or beef stroganoff or tacos. Talk about strange! Why would anyone invent such a stupid law to deny themselves such delicious food combos as beef and cheese?

[sylvius]

And that's why Jews can't eat cheeseburgers or beef stroganoff or tacos. Talk about strange! Why would anyone invent such a stupid law to deny themselves such delicious food combos as beef and cheese?

. 1 Corinthians 3:1-3,
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

So: Milk is for the carnal, flesh for the spiritual.

"And the word became flesh" --

Flesh = Hebrew "basar" , root of "b'sorah" = message, good tidings = Gospel.

Hebrew letters are consonants. They form "the body" of the word, i.e. "the flesh". John 6:51, I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

"camel" and "needle's eye" (in the saying "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God") are names of Hebrew letters, "gimel" (3rd letter of Hebrew alphabet) and "kuf" (19th letter).

"gamal" as a verb can mean "to wean", like in Genesis 21:8, And the child grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned.

So there you have it.

("the needle's eye" being the little opening of the letter "hey" in "hashishi").

(In Greek Gematria milk and flesh are mixed up :p)

[duxrow]

And that's why Jews can't eat cheeseburgers or beef stroganoff or tacos. Talk about strange! Why would anyone invent such a stupid law to deny themselves such delicious food combos as beef and cheese?"The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk". Exodus 23:19http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?2332-Seething-the-kid&p=32981#post32981

[Richard Amiel McGough]

. 1 Corinthians 3:1-3,
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

So: Milk is for the carnal, flesh for the spiritual.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Of course, it also shows how ridiculous it is for Jews to be taking it literally. They have saddled themselves with entirely unnecessary and absurd burdens. Orthodox Jews have to have two kitchens! This shows how religious traditions get corrupted. Once something becomes a "tradition" there is no way to clean it out. This is particularly evident with things like the oral suction on the baby's freshly circumcised penis. Religion makes people do crazy things.



"And the word became flesh" --

Flesh = Hebrew "basar" , root of "b'sorah" = message, good tidings = Gospel.

Hebrew letters are consonants. They form "the body" of the word, i.e. "the flesh". John 6:51, I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

"camel" and "needle's eye" (in the saying "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God") are names of Hebrew letters, "gimel" (3rd letter of Hebrew alphabet) and "kuf" (19th letter).

"gamal" as a verb can mean "to wean", like in Genesis 21:8, And the child grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned.

So there you have it.

I wrote extensively on the meanings of those letters and said pretty much the same things as you.




("the needle's eye" being the little opening of the letter "hey" in "hashishi").

(In Greek Gematria milk and flesh are mixed up :p)
This is where we part company. You have no justification for making an association between the eye of the needle, the letter hey, and your particular obsession with yom hashishi. Of course, you frequently rejected the connections I made concerning my former personal obsession, the Bible Wheel, so you and I were not really different at all. We both had obsessions based on nothing cognitive biases like cherry picking, selection bias, confirmation bias, etc., etc., etc.

I guess the only difference between us now is that I broke free from my obsessive delusion.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

"The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk". Exodus 23:19http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?2332-Seething-the-kid&p=32981#post32981
Good work duxrow! You made a connection with a long conversation we had on this topic. :thumb:

I still say that yes, cheeseburgers really are that important! :p

[sylvius]

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Of course, it also shows how ridiculous it is for Jews to be taking it literally. They have saddled themselves with entirely unnecessary and absurd burdens. Orthodox Jews have to have two kitchens! This shows how religious traditions get corrupted. Once something becomes a "tradition" there is no way to clean it out. This is particularly evident with things like the oral suction on the baby's freshly circumcised penis. Religion makes people do crazy things.

The Jews carry the literal Torah through history. Like a cross?

With no Jews the literal Torah would have long be forgotten and disappeared.

Literal Torah, with gematria of Genesis 1:1 being 2701, 153rd word being "tov", 434th word "hashishi", 474th word "b'hibaram", ratio 1:4 of the two trees, etc.

Christians don't carry the literal Torah. For them it is some worthless thing. Making mock of the Jews who cling to it.






I guess the only difference between us now is that I broke free from my obsessive delusion.

Mine is not a delusion.

[duxrow]

The Jews carry the literal Torah through history. Like a cross?
Sure.. Like in 'T' is for tav, image of the Cross of Calvary.

With no Jews the literal Torah would have long be forgotten and disappeared.
Agree -- Jews were a school teacher to lead us to Christ. They were first, but the purpose was to bring us to Christ.

Christians don't carry the literal Torah. For them it is some worthless thing. Making mock of the Jews who cling to it.

Not the Christians I know! We support ISRAEL and recognize how they were led in a physical way to show us how Spiritual or figurative follows on.

[sylvius]

KJV is just a translation.

no "Rejoicing of Torah"

http://www.familyholiday.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/copy_0_simchat-torah-2012-300-wm_resize.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simchat_Torah

[sylvius]

And more: The God of Israel is a literal God inherent the Hebrew Torah written with Hebrew letters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSjwJfHnPZ8&feature=youtu.be

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I guess the only difference between us now is that I broke free from my obsessive delusion.
Mine is not a delusion.
Sure it is. It has all the signs of delusion. You cherry pick numbers and words to create patterns you like. You do not have a theory that explains all the evidence. You ignore the vast majority of evidence and focus only on the parts that you think confirm your patterns. This is the same thing I did with the Bible Wheel. I see no difference. If you think there is a difference, then please explain it to me. It should prove very enlightening.

[duxrow]

Not denying, Sylvie, your Simchat Torah -- Rejoice all you want, and I'll rejoice with you, but realize that the JEWS & GENTILES are two different classes; Rom2:9 and 10. The very first "Christians" were Jews who recognized the truth of the OT and that Jesus was their Messiah too!

[sylvius]

Sure it is. It has all the signs of delusion. You cherry pick numbers and words to create patterns you like. You do not have a theory that explains all the evidence. You ignore the vast majority of evidence and focus only on the parts that you think confirm your patterns. This is the same thing I did with the Bible Wheel. I see no difference. If you think there is a difference, then please explain it to me. It should prove very enlightening.

The one present in the initial letters of "yom hashishi vay'chulu hashamayim" might prove it.

Ba'al Haturim:

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q262/suivlys/ForhesealedtheworldwithhiasdivineName.jpg (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/suivlys/media/ForhesealedtheworldwithhiasdivineName.jpg.html)

[sylvius]

Not denying, Sylvie, your Simchat Torah -- Rejoice all you want, and I'll rejoice with you, but realize that the JEWS & GENTILES are two different classes; Rom2:9 and 10. The very first "Christians" were Jews who recognized the truth of the OT and that Jesus was their Messiah too!


They surely didn't recognize the truth of KJV

[Richard Amiel McGough]

The one present in the initial letters of "yom hashishi vay'chulu hashamayim" might prove it.

Ba'al Haturim:

One random coincidence proves nothing.

It appears you don't understand the meaning of "delusion" and worse, you have no idea how to tell if your work is or is not a delusion.

If you don't know how to tell if your work is a delusion, then how do you know it is not a delusion?

[sylvius]

One random coincidence proves nothing.

It appears you don't understand the meaning of "delusion" and worse, you have no idea how to tell if your work is or is not a delusion.

If you don't know how to tell if your work is a delusion, then how do you know it is not a delusion?


It is not random.

It is at the completion of creation,

at "the end", in the moment "now".


Pslams 121:8, The Lord (Tetragrammaton) guards your going out and your coming in from now and to eternity.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

It is not random.

It is at the completion of creation,

at "the end", in the moment "now".


Pslams 121:8, The Lord (Tetragrammaton) guards your going out and your coming in from now and to eternity.

Just like the Bible Wheel is not random. The 66 books fit perfectly in three wheels within a wheel corresponding to the 22 Hebrew letters which seal the Bible from Aleph to Tav, from beginning to end. This corresponds to the Galgal of 22 letters taught in the Sepher Yetzirah, and it corresponds to the alphabetic pattern we see in Psalm 119 which is all about God's Word. I have ten thousand proofs that are ten thousand times better than anything you have presented, yet you have rejected my work for years without any logic. You have consistently rejected it as a "delusion." Conclusion: if you can see my work as a delusion, the only reason you can't see that yours is a delusion is because you are still deluded. There is nothing in your work that is not found in mine since your work is nothing but finding patterns in the words of the Bible, just like mine. But mine contains much more than yours so if you reject mine as a delusion, you have no rational reason to think yours is not also a delusion.

[duxrow]

:yo:Good job, Richard. Personally I like to emphasize the "Triple 22" as much as the 66 Books -- seems like the 'religious' community has come to mostly accept the 66, even when not seeing the T22.

Your ARCHIVES are tremendous -- will you be running out of space anytime soon?

So... :playball: Thanks again for this forum; like a back-board for playing tennis, and a place to order my language and my opinions. All the best, /s/ Dux

[sylvius]

Just like the Bible Wheel is not random. The 66 books fit perfectly in three wheels within a wheel corresponding to the 22 Hebrew letters which seal the Bible from Aleph to Tav, from beginning to end. This corresponds to the Galgal of 22 letters taught in the Sepher Yetzirah, and it corresponds to the alphabetic pattern we see in Psalm 119 which is all about God's Word. I have ten thousand proofs that are ten thousand times better than anything you have presented, yet you have rejected my work for years without any logic. You have consistently rejected it as a "delusion." Conclusion: if you can see my work as a delusion, the only reason you can't see that yours is a delusion is because you are still deluded. There is nothing in your work that is not found in mine since your work is nothing but finding patterns in the words of the Bible, just like mine. But mine contains much more than yours so if you reject mine as a delusion, you have no rational reason to think yours is not also a delusion.

http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?28-Vernon-Jenkins-Thread-closed&p=201#post201

there is a huge difference between "yom shishi", sixth day, and "yom hashishi", the sixth day, although the numerical difference is relatively very small ( 671 versus 666), indeed like a needles' eye, or like the little opening under the roof that differentiates the written letter "hei" from the written letter "chet", which again is like the difference between "matzah", unleavened, and "chomeitz", leavened (bread).

http://www.torah.org/learning/perceptions/5764/pesach.html



Matzah is the quintessential symbol of Pesach, and the word itself differs in spelling from chometz by one letter:
Mem-Tzaddi-HEH -- CHES-Mem-Tzaddi However, it is a variance that makes all the difference in the world, since it alludes to the deepest of ideas. For, the transition from the letter Ches of chometz to the letter Heh of matzah, symbolizes the actual process of creation, and of redemption from Egypt (Biur HaGRA, Safra D'Tzniusa).

http://www.capemaycountyherald.com/article/81586-hidden+meaning+matzah+passover


The holiday of Matzah is actually what Passover is referred to in the Torah. Matzah is often referred to as the bread of affliction or the bread of the poor during this spring holiday. The biblical explanation for the eating of unleavened bread at Passover ascribes it to the haste with which the Israelites left Egypt. They had no time to let the dough which they took with them leaven (rise).

The nature of chomeitz is to "puff up" and this symbolizes arrogance, whereas, the flat matzah represents humility.

cf. 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover, has been sacrificed. Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

[sylvius]

http://www.capemaycountyherald.com/a...atzah+passover


They had no time to let the dough which they took with them leaven (rise).

Exodus 12:34,
The people picked up their dough when it was not yet leavened

"not yet" = טֶרֶם, "tèrèm" --

Same "tèrèm" in Genesis 2:5, even two times:
Now no bush of the field was yet on the earth, neither did any herb of the field yet grow

Rashi:

Every טֶרֶם ("tèrèm") in Scripture has the meaning of “not yet,” and it does not mean“before,” and it cannot be made into a verb form, to say הִטְרִים,("hitrim") as one says הִקְדִּים ("hikdim")

Which means that there was "no time", and further that the "mist" of Genesis 2:6 indeed is the principle of time, the source (like it is also translated in LXX, πηγὴ δὲ ἀνέβαινεν ἐκ τῆς γῆς καὶ ἐπότιζεν πᾶν τὸ πρόσωπον τῆς γῆς


Not only principle of time, but also of speech; since "siach", ( bush,shrub) can also mean meditation, thought, speech.

And interesting of course the gematria 318, like the number of 318 trained servants with whom Abraham gained victory over the four kings in favor of the five. (Genesis 14:14).

[duxrow]

Why the THIRD DAY? Because Jesus said "Destroy this temple (speaking of his own body) and in 3 days I will raise it up",John2:19. Now the church is his body, and when a thousand years are as one day, it has been more than 2 "days" since he went to the cross. We're in the 3rd 'Day' NOW!

Solomon's Temple was a 3-part structure (infant, Children, Adult) and 'type' of human Temple that WALKS on Two-Pillars!

1Cor3:16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Why the THIRD DAY? Because Jesus said "Destroy this temple (speaking of his own body) and in 3 days I will raise it up",John2:19. Now the church is his body, and when a thousand years are as one day, it has been more than 2 "days" since he went to the cross. We're in the 3rd 'Day' NOW!

Solomon's Temple was a 3-part structure (infant, Children, Adult) and 'type' of human Temple that WALKS on Two-Pillars!

1Cor3:16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"
Four problems:

1) The Bible says "a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years is like a single day. That goes both ways. It says nothing about a 1000 years being used as a single day in prophecy. Or what? Did Christ not actually arise on the third day but we are still waiting for him to arise in the third millennium after his crucifixion?

2) Again, since the "formula" (which is not really a formula) goes both ways it therefore leads to contradictions. If a single day is like a thousand years, then two thousand years, which contains 365 x 2000 = 730,000 days, is "like" 730,000,000 years. So the time since Christ is "like" 730 MILLION YEARS! Wow. Biblical time really flies!

3) Was the resurrection ON the third day or AFTER the third day? If after the third day, we must wait at least another thousand years.

4) If it was ON the third day, then we still don't know when on the third day, so it could happen anytime in the next thousand years.

The answer to all this confusion, of course, is that the statement is not a formula at all. It is a poetic way of saying that time is irrelevant to God.

[duxrow]

Roger your 'problems', Richard, but not my priority. Maybe the "millennium" gonna be 24hr, or since Jesus reported "12 hrs in a day" (contrast to night..) Any progress with Charisma post re Dr.Deagan?

1Cor15:40 "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.."

Maybe the New Bodies of some will walk on six legs! You think? :biking_better:

[CWH]

Duxrow:Roger your 'problems', Richard, but not my priority. Maybe the "millennium" gonna be 24hr, or since Jesus reported "12 hrs in a day" (contrast to night..) Any progress with Charisma post re Dr.Deagan?

1Cor15:40 "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.."

Maybe the New Bodies of some will walk on six legs! You think?
People tends to twist this passage of the divine day; it simply means a Lord's day is a thousand years. A day to the Lord is but a Thousand years and a thousand years to the Lord is but a day is the same as saying a millennium is a thousand years and a thousand years is a millennium. This is evident in the Bible in which a day can be interpreted as years or months or weeks as described in Daniel. But never a year to be interpreted as a day, weeks or months.

God Bless.:pray:

[Richard Amiel McGough]

People tends to twist this passage of the divine day; it simply means a Lord's day is a thousand years. A day to the Lord is but a Thousand years and a thousand years to the Lord is but a day is the same as saying a millennium is a thousand years and a thousand years is a millennium. This is evident in the Bible in which a day can be interpreted as years or months or weeks as described in Daniel. But never a year to be interpreted as a day, weeks or months.

God Bless.:pray:
I disagree. Here is what the verse says:

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

It seems to me that the verse refers to how God perceives time in comparison with how humans perceive time. Perhaps it will help if I add parenthetical comments:

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day (to humans) is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years (to humans) as one day (with the Lord).

The point is that God sees so much in one 24 hour day that it would be like what a human would see in a thousand years. And conversely, a thousand years to humans would seem like a long time because their lives are short, whereas those thousand years would be like one day with God because he lives forever.

Your suggestion that it's just a repetition of the same idea makes no sense. It seems pretty stupid to just repeat the same idea in reverse.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Any progress with Charisma post re Dr.Deagan?

I watched enough to know there was nothing worth watching. Typical lunatic believing crazy stuff that's been proven false a thousand times.

[sylvius]

I disagree. Here is what the verse says:

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

It seems to me that the verse refers to how God perceives time in comparison with how humans perceive time. Perhaps it will help if I add parenthetical comments:

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day (to humans) is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years (to humans) as one day (with the Lord).

The point is that God sees so much in one 24 hour day that it would be like what a human would see in a thousand years. And conversely, a thousand years to humans would seem like a long time because their lives are short, whereas those thousand years would be like one day with God because he lives forever.

Your suggestion that it's just a repetition of the same idea makes no sense. It seems pretty stupid to just repeat the same idea in reverse.

Unreliable 2 Peter "robbed" that from Psalms 90, v4.
For a thousand years are in Your eyes like yesterday, which passed, and a watch in the night.


Interesting comment by RASHI:

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16311#showrashi=true


A thousand years of man are like one day of the Holy One, blessed be He, and part of the night with it; for one day of the Holy One, blessed He, and a little of the night of the Holy One, blessed be He, are a thousand years, for the text does not say that the day of the Holy One, blessed be He, is like a thousand years, but that when a little of the night elapses with it, then His day is complete, and it is a thousand years. Therefore, Adam died within a thousand [years] for had he lived a thousand [years] it would be more than the day of the Holy One, blessed be He. Perhaps the amount of that watch equals the time from the death of Adam until a thousand years, but we do not know how much that watch was, except from conjecture. I found [this]:
And when repentance came into Your thoughts from the beginning, You judged well and created it. Now those years were appropriate for it because people’s days were many, so that a thousand years were in Your eyes like one passing day, which passed and was gone, with a little of the night with it, for You said to Adam (Gen. 2:17): “for on the day you eat of it, you will surely die,” and he lived nine hundred and thirty years. We find that a thousand years equal one whole day and a little of the night with it.

like yesterday, which passed: Which already passed.


Adam could have lived a thousand years, i.e. eternal, by not eating from the forbidden fruit.

I guess the thousand year reign of Revelation 20 is about the same.

Interesting in this respect is the story of the Phoenix. When Eve had eaten from the forbidden fruit she first gave of it to all the animals, and then also to Adam. Only the Phoenix refused to eat from it, and that's why he rejuvenates every millennium.

Phoenix is Hebrew "chol", which also denotes the world of the six days as standing opposite the seventh, i.e. the profane world opposite the holy. "chol" can also denote sickness. Gematria 38, seeming to be the clue of John 5:5, "a man was there who had been ill for 38 years". That this indeed is the clue might be clear form John 11, Now a certain man was ill, Lazarus of Bethany
Lazarus being Greek form of the name Eliezer, "God is my helpmate", Abraham's servant, name with numerical value that coincides the number of traiend servants with whom Abraham gained victory over the 4 kings in favor of the 5, in what you might call "The Mother of all Wars", since Genesis 14 relates the first war (of biblical histroy), after which also the God of Israel is called: WARRIOR , Exodus 15:3, The Lord is a Master of war; the Lord is His Name., since after Pslams 110:1 Abrham was seated "at the right hand of the Lord" when defeating the 4 kings; and that's alos why they only caught 153 large fish after having thrown the net over the right side of the ship (John 21).

Phoenix in fact is the name of the date-palm, after Deuteronomy 8:8 being fruit of the seventh day ("d'vash"= honey, is product of the date) . The seventh day being the day we live in (our world of time and space)
Date = Hebrew "tamar", Tamar being the name of Shem's daughter who was married to first Er and then to Onan and next seduced Judah, because of withholding from her his youngest son, and got pegnant and gave birth to Peretz ("breaking through"), father of the Messianic generation, and Zerach ("sunrise").

[David M]

Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
People tends to twist this passage of the divine day; it simply means a Lord's day is a thousand years. A day to the Lord is but a Thousand years and a thousand years to the Lord is but a day is the same as saying a millennium is a thousand years and a thousand years is a millennium. This is evident in the Bible in which a day can be interpreted as years or months or weeks as described in Daniel. But never a year to be interpreted as a day, weeks or months.

God Bless.I disagree. Here is what the verse says:

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

It seems to me that the verse refers to how God perceives time in comparison with how humans perceive time. Perhaps it will help if I add parenthetical comments:

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day (to humans) is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years (to humans) as one day (with the Lord).

The point is that God sees so much in one 24 hour day that it would be like what a human would see in a thousand years. And conversely, a thousand years to humans would seem like a long time because their lives are short, whereas those thousand years would be like one day with God because he lives forever.

Your suggestion that it's just a repetition of the same idea makes no sense. It seems pretty stupid to just repeat the same idea in reverse.

If it were not for the fact that working back in time, the date of Creation is calculated to be 4004 BC, we might not see the association of real time of 1,000 years represented by one day. With 2,000 years passing from the time of Jesus was first present on the earth 6,000 years have passed from the time of Creation of the earth. The millennial reign of Christ is expect to begin relatively soon, and therefore, the overall pattern of 7,000 years to the fulfillment of God's purpose when his Glory shall fill the whole earth seems to fit the pattern established at the time of Creation. The 8th millennium will correspond to "a new beginning".

Because of this 7,000 year period, we have the association with the 6 days of Creation and one day of rest (the Sabbath) making up a 7-day period. After that, we are in a period represented by 1,000 year periods in which 1,000 years is represented by 1 day. We have 6,000 years of man's rule, followed by 1,000 years of Christ's rule making up 7,000 years and another 7-period cycle where the periods are represented by days. After Christ's rule, we do not have any indication of another 7-period time span. The fact appears to be that the 8th millennium is a new beginning which has no ending.

There do appear to be times when "one day" can be understood as representing 1,000 years.
For example; God said to Adam; "in the day thou eatest...." and Adam lived a few years short of 1,000 years. Jesus went into Samaria for 2 days (why not one or three?). That period of two days can be seen as an allegory for the time of the Gentiles in which are now. The teaching of Jesus has been with us (the Gentiles) for 2,000 years. I am sure others can find more examples.

The signs are there that we are approaching the 7th day (7th millennium) in which the "sabbath rest of God" is entered.

(Heb 4:10) For he (man) that is entered into his (God's) rest, he also hath ceased from his own (man's) works, as God did from his.
That is why those who are raised to life at Christ's coming and are those who will reign with Christ 1,000 years, and are entering God's sabbath (a period of rest).

I now understand why God is also seen to take another rest after 6,000 years (6 days symbolically speaking) of man's reign (rule) on earth in which God has been working in the kingdoms of men (Dan 4:17). Christ will take over and rule in man's place and takeover from God. Christ will rule for God, appearing as God, having all of God's power and authority given to him. Christ will be to all appearances God. Nevertheless, when Christ's work is complete, Christ hands over a restored kingdom. At no time is Christ ever above the authority and power of God who is the Creator to whom all praise and honor is due.

I happen to think that the Bible with all this time-patterns built in and all the events that occurred right on cue according to God's word, cannot be a construct of man. Therefore, what ever difficulties the Bible presents us with, there is an explanation by way of resolving the difficulties. That is why I say; "The whole Book has to be balanced" and the explanations have to be searched for.

[duxrow]

:yo: Amen, David. A good analysis of how a thousand years IS LIKE one Day, because the analogies, parables, metaphors, and allegories are devices used by our Holy Ghostwriter to confound the unbelievers as well as convince the believers. It's the Table set before us, in the midst of enemies!

WE are enjoying, and thrilling to find the nuggets; while Richard and Rose seem to be gagging over them and calling them discrepancies or the raving of lunatics.. hah!

[duxrow]

King David was given his choice of three punishments for his sin of numbering Israel;
1 Chronicles 21:1-12. "Either three years famine; or three months to be destroyed by thy foes; or else three days the sword of the Lord, even the pestilence..."

Day 1 & 2 are the Genesis Period, and Day 3 & 4 are the Old Covenant Period, and Day 5 & 6 are the New Covenant Period. The millennium ahead of us becomes either the 3rd day or 7th day depending on whether the count is begins with Adam or with Jesus. Note that only Bible readers recognize the 1000 yr. period which seems to have began with the year 2000. :huhsign:

King David seemed to think it was a tough choice: he said "I am in a great strait", but he (wisely, don't you think?) chose the three days because he didn't want to fall into the hand of man. 1Chr21:13.

1243

[David M]

:yo: Amen, David. A good analysis of how a thousand years IS LIKE one Day, because the analogies, parables, metaphors, and allegories are devices used by our Holy Ghostwriter to confound the unbelievers as well as convince the believers. It's the Table set before us, in the midst of enemies!

WE are enjoying, and thrilling to find the nuggets; while Richard and Rose seem to be gagging over them and calling them discrepancies or the raving of lunatics.. hah!

Hello Dux

Every time I break bread and see the table with wine and bread on it, I am reminded of those words from Psalm 23. Such are the wonderful patterns God has woven into his word to give us comfort from the enemies that are around us.

Who knows what our real enemies might do to us given the chance. How anyone can kill another for having a different belief that does no-one harm, is completely unjustified, yet God's people in the past have suffered such things. That is real faith to confess one's belief in God and be killed for it.

I was reminded of this in a discussion a few days ago in which the conversation got cut short and we had to part company. The question was put to me; "if you were in front of a firing line and were told to say; "God does not exist" and you would be spared, what would you say?" Would you say the words you were told to say, so that you would save your life?

In a similar way, we think of the woman who says she will not prostitute herself and then gets offered $50 if she will and she replies "no". Then $1,000 and she replies "no" again. Then she is offered $1,000,000 and is not so quick to reply "no". That questions the point at which one might give in to temptation. That type of temptation would certainly separate out those who are weak willed.

All the best
David

[duxrow]

Hello Dux

Every time I break bread and see the table with wine and bread on it, I am reminded of those words from Psalm 23. Such are the wonderful patterns God has woven into his word to give us comfort from the enemies that are around us. :applause:

Who knows what our real enemies might do to us given the chance. How anyone can kill another for having a different belief that does no-one harm, is completely unjustified, yet God's people in the past have suffered such things. That is real faith to confess one's belief in God and be killed for it. :eek:

I was reminded of this in a discussion a few days ago in which the conversation got cut short and we had to part company. The question was put to me; "if you were in front of a firing line and were told to say; "God does not exist" and you would be spared, what would you say?" Would you say the words you were told to say, so that you would save your life? :nono:

In a similar way, we think of the woman who says she will not prostitute herself and then gets offered $50 if she will and she replies "no". Then $1,000 and she replies "no" again. Then she is offered $1,000,000 and is not so quick to reply "no". That questions the point at which one might give in to temptation. That type of temptation would certainly separate out those who are weak willed. All the best DavidThe mirror image 37/73 may play a part too.. -- Our Holy Ghostwriter must have a terrific sense of humor -- You think?

'Course THIS IS A LIFE / DEATH situation, and most (many) have 3-score six to consider.. :mmph:

[sylvius]

Rabbi Winston http://www.torah.org/learning/perceptions/5764/pesach.html


Chometz (...) represents a kind of orlah -- a kind of spiritual interposition. Even though the rest of the year (other than the week of Pesach), it is permissible to benefit from chometz, the truth is we battle its effects constantly. Thus, the root of the word milchamah, which means "war," is the word lechem, which means "bread."

It is as if to say that the real "war" in life is not on the outer battlefield, but on the inner one, against the yetzer hara. This is because we need its drives to be effective in life; yet, unbridled, those very same drives can destroy individuals, nations, and the world. Reigning in the powers of the yetzer hara is the "tightrope" walk of life.


Removing chometz from our possession and replacing it with matzah has a similar effect as Bris Milah. It is the removal of the orlah, of all spiritual barriers that prevent us from channeling our drives in the direction of the service of G-d. Hence, this represents another reason why only those who have fulfilled the mitzvah of Bris Milah can eat from the Korban Pesach -- the Passover Offering.

MATZAH

Matzah is the quintessential symbol of Pesach, and the word itself differs in spelling from chometz by one letter:

Mem-Tzaddi-HEH -- CHES-Mem-Tzaddi However, it is a variance that makes all the difference in the world, since it alludes to the deepest of ideas. For, the transition from the letter Ches of chometz to the letter Heh of matzah, symbolizes the actual process of creation, and of redemption from Egypt (Biur HaGRA, Safra D'Tzniusa).

Matzah, which is the product of only flour and water alludes to both the end result of the refinement process, and the spiritual freedom that results. It is the symbol of Divine simplicity (Maharal, Haggadah), which is crucial for G-d being able to "relate" to us, in order to infuse us with His Da'as, so-to-speak.

"Removing chometz from our possession and replacing it with matzah has a similar effect as Bris Milah" --

Genesis 17:10-11,
This is My covenant, which you shall observe between Me and between you and between your seed after you, that every male among you be circumcised. . And you shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be as sign of the covenant between Me and between you.

v.10 doesn't say that the covenant includes circumcisison of the penis; it seemingly just serves as a sign of the already existing covenant, even eternal.

What does that mean: "eternal covenant"? Any thoughts?

[David M]

Hello Sylvius
Thanks for the link. The article makes for interesting reading.

Rabbi Winston http://www.torah.org/learning/perceptions/5764/pesach.html

I just want to pull out of that article this one point; "The sacrifices of G-d are a broken spirit."

This spirit is that of pride and selfishness and that which makes us rebel against authority and do what we want to do. That spirit has to be broken. The way the mind has been designed, we make our own choices. One might try to force you to do something, but if you have the will to resist, you can. No-one can make you happy or sad, it is by choice you make yourself unhappy. Even in adversity there can be joy (James 1:2); My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Those temptations can be very painful times. (Heb 12:2) who (Jesus) for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame

The mind is tied in with the devil, satan, and the serpent.

Jesus emptied himself of pride, and in its place was humility before God. Jesus resisted the devil/satan that was in his mind, and the devil fled from him. These things are summed up in the words of Jesus; not my will be done, but thine and James (4:7) Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

No-one overcomes their will to please self instead of God as perfectly as Jesus did. We thank Jesus for overcoming his satan/devil, whereby he gained the victory for himself, and in so doing, has made it possible for us to be given the same rewards as if we had been able to achieve the same victory. It is not ourselves that gain the victory, but it is the spirit of Jesus in us that we have in our mind, whereby in spirit (in mind) we are one with Jesus. If we are one with Jesus, then when we are judged by God, He sees us as one in Jesus and not separate from him like a leaning tower of Pisa that is leaning away from the plumb-line that irepresents Jesus.


That might seem like it is not related to the third day, but could we say the victory for Jesus was realized at the end of the third day? The victory of Jesus was to overcome death whereby he is now immortal.

If we are to be pernickety, at what point does the third day end and not be the fourth day? I go with those who think Jesus was dead for precisely 72 hours. Technically, Jesus is in the grave the moment he dies and not when he is laid in the tomb. The tomb is not the grave. Therefore, I go with the fact that Jesus rose at the same hour, minute, second on the Sabbath, as when he died precisely 72 hours before, which is the equivalent of three full days and nights.

All the best
David

[duxrow]

The mind is tied in with the devil, satan, and the serpent.

If we are to be persnickety, at what point does the third day end and not be the fourth day? I go with those who think Jesus was dead for precisely 72 hours. Technically, Jesus is in the grave the moment he dies and not when he is laid in the tomb. The tomb is not the grave. Therefore, I go with the fact that Jesus rose at the same hour, minute, second on the Sabbath, as when he died precisely 72 hours before, which is the equivalent of three full days and nights. All the best, David
:blah:Know I'm on record endorsing the 72 hours, but really am not that dogmatic; thinking of John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Assuming Jesus death near sunset and his Resurrection near sunrise? Am reminded of the many numbers in Scripture that Seem to be 'rounded off' (700 wives and 300 concubines for Solomon, plus 12-squared (144,000) of Revelation.
So, hope this isn't "much ado about nothing".. hah!

[sylvius]

Rabbi Winston http://www.torah.org/learning/percep...64/pesach.html

"Removing chometz from our possession and replacing it with matzah has a similar effect as Bris Milah" --

Genesis 17:10-11,
This is My covenant, which you shall observe between Me and between you and between your seed after you, that every male among you be circumcised. . And you shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be as sign of the covenant between Me and between you.

v.10 doesn't say that the covenant includes circumcisison of the penis; it seemingly just serves as a sign of the already existing covenant, even eternal.

What does that mean: "eternal covenant"? Any thoughts?

[sylvius]

Would this also be what John 8:58 is about? I would think so :yo:

(I'm still ever uncircumcised- Rabbi Winston maintained that the secrets of the Torah are just for the circumcised ...)

[duxrow]

Would this also be what John 8:58 is about? I would think so :yo:

(I'm still ever uncircumcised- Rabbi Winston maintained that the secrets of the Torah are just for the circumcised ...)8:58 Sylvie? -- As a rule and for the most part (Glory, hallelujah), we can't observe either circumcision or baptism just by looking at someone on the street. Nudist beaches excepted.
Rom2:29 KJB "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God".

The cutting of flesh (male ONLY!) doesn't really count (maybe for hygiene) and baptism may only serve to get some "wet behind the ears"..:winking0071:

[sylvius]

8:58 Sylvie? -- As a rule and for the most part (Glory, hallelujah), we can't observe either circumcision or baptism just by looking at someone on the street. Nudist beaches excepted.
Rom2:29 KJB "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God".

The cutting of flesh (male ONLY!) doesn't really count (maybe for hygiene) and baptism may only serve to get some "wet behind the ears"..:winking0071:

Genesis 17:7, And I will establish My covenant between Me and between you and between your seed after you throughout their generations as an eternal covenant, to be to you for a God and to your seed after you.


"b'rit olam" = eternal covenant.

Eternity has no beginning and no end.

So the covenant existed already before Abraham did circumcise himself.

Would this also be the NT "new covenant" -- Jesus said "new covenant in my blood" -- the blood of circumcision?

I would think so.

chabad.org translates "everlasting covenant" -- with reason:

Genesis 17:2, And I will place My covenant between Me and between you, and I will multiply you very greatly."

Rashi:

A covenant of love and the covenant of the land, to give it to you as a heritage through [your fulfillment of] this commandment. — [from Gen. Rabbah 46:9]

"This commandment" = commandment of circumcision.

Rashi on Genesis 17:1, "walk before me and be perfect" --

walk before Me refers to the commandment of circumcision, and thereby, you will be perfect, for as long as the foreskin is upon you, I consider you imperfect (Gen. Rabbah 46:1)

[duxrow]

Gee whilikers, Sylvie, that sounds like you're very close, maybe even 120%, but Why are you still praising Rashi?

:sEm_ImSorry: By all means Keep the Law if you've a mind to, ouch! it maybe hurts more when you're past the 8 days? or would a quick dunk be more appropriate?

[sylvius]

Gee whilikers, Sylvie, that sounds like you're very close, maybe even 120%, but Why are you still praising Rashi?

:sEm_ImSorry: By all means Keep the Law if you've a mind to, ouch! it maybe hurts more when you're past the 8 days? or would a quick dunk be more appropriate?

Mathew 28 KJV:

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Greek:
18καὶ προσελθὼν ὁ Ἰησοῦς ἐλάλησεν αὐτοῖς λέγων, Ἐδόθη μοι πᾶσα ἐξουσία ἐν οὐρανῷ καὶ ἐπὶ [τῆς] γῆς. 19πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος, 20διδάσκοντες αὐτοὺς τηρεῖν πάντα ὅσα ἐνετειλάμην ὑμῖν: καὶ ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ μεθ' ὑμῶν εἰμι πάσας τὰς ἡμέρας ἕως τῆς συντελείας τοῦ αἰῶνος.

(you see that hypocrite KJV added "Amen")

When you are baptized in water you cannot breathe.

Spirit = Greek πνεῦμα, "pneuma"-- but in fact it means breath, from "pneo" = blow (of wind).

When I inhale God is in me and when I blow out I am in God.

John 14:11, Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me


Baptism in water doesn't change the eternal covenant, but might make you aware of it; like it was said: "And what I say unto you I say unto all, Wake." (Mark 13:37)


Covenant between God and mankind: "See I am with you all the days until the end of the world"

[sylvius]

Mark 13:37 Greek: ὃ δὲ ὑμῖν λέγω, πᾶσιν λέγω, γρηγορεῖτε.

What I say to you (disciples) I say to all (inhabitants of this world): WAKE.



γρηγορέω = BE AWAKE; ALERT

It translates Hebrew "shakad" , like to be found in Jeremiah 1:12, And the Lord said to me; You have seen well, for I wake over my word to do it., which again is a wordplay with "shaked" = almond, in the previous verse: And the word of the Lord came to me, saying: What do you see, Jeremiah? And I said, "I see a rod of an almond tree."

"Wake over" is also "make haste" --

chabad.org:
. And the Lord said to me; You have seen well, for I hasten My word to accomplish it.. And the Lord said to me; You have seen well, for I hasten My word to accomplish it.

Rashi:

This almond tree hastens to blossom before all other trees. I, too, hasten to perform My word.

Almond is German "Mandel" , Yiddish "Mendel" , which is often added to the name Menachem (= Comforter), "Menachem Mendel" -- The comforter is making haste, i.e. he passes the time, like eternity.

[duxrow]

(you see that hypocrite KJV added "Amen")

When you are baptized in water you cannot breathe.
Spirit = Greek πνεῦμα, "pneuma"-- but in fact it means breath, from "pneo" = blow (of wind).

When I inhale God is in me and when I blow out I am in God.
Hey Sylvie, Inhaling HOT AIR more like an exercise for lungs--exhaling noticeably will get you called "fartface". Amen? Many Bible-study aids in USA are keyed to the KJV, so I don't understand your objection. Granted there are translate errors and typo's; as with ALL versions that I know of.. Do you read the "Lamsa Bible" at all?

:sEm_oops: 'pneuma' like in pneumatic (air-operated) == you say when you breathe that 'God is in you', but maybe better put if you become pregnant with the WORD ?

We each have our own POV and like a teeter-totter go up and down.. maybe meant to be? :winking0071:

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Mathew 28 KJV:

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Greek:
18καὶ προσελθὼν ὁ Ἰησοῦς ἐλάλησεν αὐτοῖς λέγων, Ἐδόθη μοι πᾶσα ἐξουσία ἐν οὐρανῷ καὶ ἐπὶ [τῆς] γῆς. 19πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος, 20διδάσκοντες αὐτοὺς τηρεῖν πάντα ὅσα ἐνετειλάμην ὑμῖν: καὶ ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ μεθ' ὑμῶν εἰμι πάσας τὰς ἡμέρας ἕως τῆς συντελείας τοῦ αἰῶνος.

(you see that hypocrite KJV added "Amen")

Ha! The "hypocrite" Peshitta also "added" the "Amen."

Are you not familiar with textual variations in the Greek text? Here is what Metzger says in his Textual Commentary on the New Testament:

After aivw/noj most manuscripts, followed by the Textus Receptus, terminate the Gospel with avmh,n, reflecting the liturgical usage of the text. If the word had been present originally, no good reason can be found to account for its absence from the better representatives of the Alexandrian and the Western text-types.

That's why it's not found in modern translations which are based on the scholarship of the textual critics. It has nothing to do with any "hypocrisy" in the KJV.

[sylvius]

Ha! The "hypocrite" Peshitta also "added" the "Amen."

Are you not familiar with textual variations in the Greek text? Here is what Metzger says in his Textual Commentary on the New Testament:

After aivw/noj most manuscripts, followed by the Textus Receptus, terminate the Gospel with avmh,n, reflecting the liturgical usage of the text. If the word had been present originally, no good reason can be found to account for its absence from the better representatives of the Alexandrian and the Western text-types.

That's why it's not found in modern translations which are based on the scholarship of the textual critics. It has nothing to do with any "hypocrisy" in the KJV.


I see KJV has it also at the end of Mark.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+16&version=KJV

i.e. at the end of "The Longer Ending of Mark", that was added later.
By which you know that it is with right "King James Perversion".

Mark 16:8 being the last verse; the last two words meant to be read in combination with the first two (three) words: ἐφοβοῦντο γάρ Ἀρχὴ τοῦ εὐαγγελίου -- i.e. "for they feared the principle of the Gospel" - hinting at the name of God present in the initial letters of "yom hashishi vay'chulu hashamayim" - around which the whole world turns, and also at: "The principle of wisdom is fear of the Lord". (Psalms 111:10)