Alternative numbers to 666 and 616

[CWH]

Hi,

People have been trying to unravel with much frustrations the mysteries of 666 and 616 attributed to the identity of the antichrist; it stands for a man's name or the number of his name. The problem lies probably using gematria to identify the numbers at face value. Perhaps we have been looking at the wrong numbers. Prophetic numbers are not so easy to uncover; it usually requires not reading the numbers at face value i.e. using 666 or 616. I now used some calculations to provide some alternative numbers in relation to 666 and 616 to perhaps provide more leads. Readers are advised to do their own diligence to help uncover the mysteries and share with us if they made some stunning discoveries or connections. I am using my own so called mathematical gematria to discover alternative numbers and referenced them to hebrew, english, latin and simple gematria and Biblewheel gematria databse. Good Luck! :p

666 alternative numbers are:
66+6 = 72
6+6+6 = 18
66-6 = 60
600-66 = 534
660-6 = 654
(6+6)-6 = 6

616 alternative numbers are:
61+6 = 67
6+1+6 = 13
61-6 = 55
600-16 = 584
610-6 = 604
16-6 = 10
(6+1)-6 = 1

Hebrew, English, Latin and Simple Gematria:
http://www.gematrix.org/

Biblewheel gematria database:
http://www.biblewheel.com//GR/GR_Database.php

God Bless.:pray:

[toxon]

Hi CWH :)

If Cain be avenged sevenfold it is verily seven times.
And if Cain be avenged sevenfold then Lamech seventy and sevenfold.
And if Lamech be avenged seventy and sevenfold it is four hundred and ninety times.
And if Lamech be avenged seventy and sevenfold then Tubal-Cain sevenfold eighty and eight.
Tubal-Cain brings forth Cain with fanfare from the land of Nod where he wandered as a desert nomad.
Tubal-Cain thus brings forth Cain from the arid places with seven other spirits more wicked than himself.
And sevenfold eighty and eight are six hundred ten and six, (but the profane is fifty cubits round about). :D

[CWH]

Hi CWH :)

If Cain be avenged sevenfold it is verily seven times.
And if Cain be avenged sevenfold then Lamech seventy and sevenfold.
And if Lamech be avenged seventy and sevenfold it is four hundred and ninety times.
And if Lamech be avenged seventy and sevenfold then Tubal-Cain sevenfold eighty and eight.
Tubal-Cain brings forth Cain with fanfare from the land of Nod where he wandered as a desert nomad.
Tubal-Cain thus brings forth Cain from the arid places with seven other spirits more wicked than himself.
And sevenfold eighty and eight are six hundred ten and six, (but the profane is fifty cubits round about). :D
Hi toxon,

I am not sure what you are trying to say, but in this thread what I am saying is that if a number in the bible does not provide the result or the revelation, then we should suspect that the number is not the actual number and that it may contain a code. It is like someone sending an important secret code, he won't be so naive to make it so easy to break and you have to suspect every word and number to mean something else. Prophetic bible numbers mostly work in this way. Of course, biblical number should be taken at face value but if the number is suspicious and is difficult to unravel or understand then suspect the number to be a code and thus the number should not be taken at face value, which in this case are 666 and 616.

God Bless.:pray:

[Snakeboy]

616 can be obtained combinatorically from Genesis 1:1, curiously, which I noticed exploring the concept of " first and last ", which seems to have multiple interesting relationships.

My apologies to Richard if he's already show this to be trivial for the 100th time. :lol:

There are seven words in Genesis 1:1, twenty eight letters, we all know the sum of 1-7 = 28

Following the concept of " first to last "

If you simply write out 1-7

1234567
7654321 +
_________
8888888

You can take the same set, and instead of simply adding them like above, you can take each column and write out the mirrors as

1234567
7654321

17/71, 26/62, 35/53, 44/44, 53/35, 62/26, 71/17

I was just following a hunch here, based on the uses of numerical palindromes, like 37 and 73, etc

So, taking the above set of palindromes and adding them

17 + 71 = 88
26 + 62 = 88
35 + 53 = 88
44 + 44 = 88
53 + 35 = 88
62 + 26 = 88
71 + 17 = 88

While 7 x 88 = 616

There are fourteen 8's in total, while 14 x 8 = 112 = border of Genesis 1:1 + John 1:1 triangle, etc

Note as well that that 888 / 144 = 6.16.......:winking0071:

Genesis 1:1 is indeed a most curious verse, isn't it

[toxon]

Hi toxon,

I am not sure what you are trying to say, but in this thread what I am saying is that if a number in the bible does not provide the result or the revelation, then we should suspect that the number is not the actual number and that it may contain a code. It is like someone sending an important secret code, he won't be so naive to make it so easy to break and you have to suspect every word and number to mean something else. Prophetic bible numbers mostly work in this way. Of course, biblical number should be taken at face value but if the number is suspicious and is difficult to unravel or understand then suspect the number to be a code and thus the number should not be taken at face value, which in this case are 666 and 616.

God Bless.:pray:

Yea, and the code is the Testimony of Yeshua as in all cases:

Luke 11:24-26 KJV
24. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

If therefore "the prince of the power of the air" or unclean "spirit of the world" traverses the dry-arid desert places seeking rest and finding none, and the man is indeed the "house", and the "old man" spirit returns to his house with seven other spirits more wicked than himself: then would that not make him "the eighth and of the seven"? Yes it would, (Revelation 17:11) and there are no exceptions to the rule: if indeed you have truly entered into the Yeshua faithfulness then the unclean spirit of the world was cast out of you at the commencement and therefore the disciples of Yeshua are given the keys to the doors of the house, (every man is a house) and commanded to watch like the porter of the doors while "the House Master is away in a far journey", (Markos 13:34). So if you truly desire to begin to understand the multiple answers to your number questions here, (and it appears you do) then you must first understand that the numbers have primary meaning found straight forward in the text in combination with the meanings of names of individuals in a given text. The reason Tubal-Cain is the eighth is because some of the names in the text are found having been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. Only those not found written in the book of life from the foundation of the world are to be counted in the "lineage" and offspring of Cain because the others are stated to have "lived", (and thus their supernal seed line and heritage was changed by the Most High as they were "grafted" into the fold of the people of God). Those not having been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world are "permanent dwellers" upon the earth, (and every man is likewise the earth). Therefore mortify your members which are upon your earth as Paulos likewise warns and has testified. The outer perimeter of your temple is "five hundred by five hundred" but with "fifty cubits" round about for the commons or "profane, (the flesh) you have a total symbolism of six hundred by six hundred including the unwalled villages for the beasts and the profane, (which reside in the flesh). However, the entire mountain top it is now declared most Holy, (this is the law of the house) so you have a temple, which is the house, which is you as well as every man, and the perimeter is six hundred by six hundred with the fifty cubit commons or "profane" round about your outer court with your commons and your unwalled villages with the beasts. :lol: Likewise the six narrow inner and outer gates of the temple are sixty cubits in height and the walls of the structure are of the one reed of six cubits by the cubit and the hand-breadth. This is all symbolism in numbers which absolutely must be understood by the context in which each topic is found. The evil ones will climb up into your sheep pen by some other way than the sixty cubit narrow gates of the narrow Way: thus Six hundred TEN and Six because "ten horns", "ten toes", "ten fingers", "ten crowns", "ten sons of Haman the Agagite", and on and on the typology goes, always the same, and every house shall be divided: three against two, (5) and two against three, (5) like "ten little virgins" of the right hand and the shaggy goat lucky lefties for whom nothing every goes wrong until they see the lake of fire open up. Oh well, I see your thread must be about something else so have a nice thread. :)

[CWH]

Hi toxon,

The passage you cited has nothing to do with tis thread or with satan. Jesus had just treated someone with an illness in the previous verses before this passage was cited. He was talking about germs as we know that the evil spirits which causes diseases are known to day as disease causing germs and viruses. They were known as evil spirits which fits the definition of germs well as germs are living things too small to be seen by the naked eye. Literally evil spirits means bad(evil) invisible energy/force(spirits). What Jesus may mean is this (in red):

Luke 11:24-26 KJV
24. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
When germs came out of a person say through droplet means such as sneezing, it travels through the air and other media seeking another host to infect but find none. The germs then went back to their original state by turning into spores so as to stay dormant and wait for the right host and opportunity (i.e. return to his house whence he came out).

25. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
When the germs was able to find a good host and oppotuniity with little immunity or resistance, (i,e, swept and garnish) they propagate and spread.

26. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
The germs in the course of infection and cross infections then mutate with many other stronger and resistant species and became more virulent. And as these mutated germs infected the host, the host will be in a worse state than before when he first got infected.


God Bless.:pray:

[toxon]

Hi toxon,

The passage you cited has nothing to do with tis thread or with satan. Jesus had just treated someone with an illness in the previous verses before this passage was cited. He was talking about germs as we know that the evil spirits which causes diseases are known to day as disease causing germs and viruses. They were known as evil spirits which fits the definition of germs well as germs are living things too small to be seen by the naked eye. Literally evil spirits means bad(evil) invisible energy/force(spirits). What Jesus may mean is this (in red):

Luke 11:24-26 KJV
24. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
When germs came out of a person say through droplet means such as sneezing, it travels through the air and other media seeking another host to infect but find none. The germs then went back to their original state by turning into spores so as to stay dormant and wait for the right host and opportunity (i.e. return to his house whence he came out).

25. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
When the germs was able to find a good host and oppotuniity with little immunity or resistance, (i,e, swept and garnish) they propagate and spread.

26. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
The germs in the course of infection and cross infections then mutate with many other stronger and resistant species and became more virulent. And as these mutated germs infected the host, the host will be in a worse state than before when he first got infected.


God Bless.:pray:

Hi CWH, :)
Actually I had left off from the thread and was not going to go any further because it was clear that you desired to speak of other things or at least have a different approach to the subject material than how I see it. I tried to make that clear at the end of my last post but if you do want to talk about such things we can. However, and I do not mean to be rude in any way, but if you are going to use examples not found in the Scripture such as what we now know to be "germs" then I do feel obligated to show from the Testimony of Yeshua why what you have proposed cannot be correct. The first reason the "germ theory" cannot be correct is because Yeshua clearly states that eating with unwashed hands is not what defiles the man. Ordinary sicknesses, illnesses, and such things caused by germs and bacteria do not make a man "defiled" in the eyes of the Creator. It is what is in the heart of the man that defiles him. Both the Matthew 15 and Mark 7 companion passages begin with the question of defilement and the washing of hands, cups, and utensils before eating which concerns the topic of germs that you have brought up:

Matthew 15:1-2 KJV
1. Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
2. Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

Mark 7:1-4 KJV
1. Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.
2. And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.
3. For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.
4. And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.

This is the answer from the Matthew passage, and not that we shouldn't worry about washing our hands or being cleanly but rather that germs are not what "defiles" a man in the sight of our Creator according to the doctrine of Yeshua:

Matthew 15:10-20 KJV
10. And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11. Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
12. Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
13. But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
14. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
15. Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
16. And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17. Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18. But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20. These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

The second reason why your proposal is unacceptable and untenable is because germs do not cry out, speak audibly, or violently rip through a person, (torn) when they are cast out of the "house" of the man:

Mark 1:23-27 KJV
23. And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out,
24. Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
25. And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him.
26. And when the unclean spirit had torn him, and cried with a loud voice, he came out of him.
27. And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying, What thing is this? what new doctrine is this? for with authority commandeth he even the unclean spirits, and they do obey him.

:)

[CWH]

Hi CWH, :)
Actually I had left off from the thread and was not going to go any further because it was clear that you desired to speak of other things or at least have a different approach to the subject material than how I see it. I tried to make that clear at the end of my last post but if you do want to talk about such things we can. However, and I do not mean to be rude in any way, but if you are going to use examples not found in the Scripture such as what we now know to be "germs" then I do feel obligated to show from the Testimony of Yeshua why what you have proposed cannot be correct. The first reason the "germ theory" cannot be correct is because Yeshua clearly states that eating with unwashed hands is not what defiles the man. Ordinary sicknesses, illnesses, and such things caused by germs and bacteria do not make a man "defiled" in the eyes of the Creator. It is what is in the heart of the man that defiles him. Both the Matthew 15 and Mark 7 companion passages begin with the question of defilement and the washing of hands, cups, and utensils before eating which concerns the topic of germs that you have brought up:

Matthew 15:1-2 KJV
1. Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
2. Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

Mark 7:1-4 KJV
1. Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.
2. And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.
3. For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.
4. And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.

This is the answer from the Matthew passage, and not that we shouldn't worry about washing our hands or being cleanly but rather that germs are not what "defiles" a man in the sight of our Creator according to the doctrine of Yeshua:

Matthew 15:10-20 KJV
10. And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11. Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
12. Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
13. But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
14. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
15. Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
16. And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17. Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18. But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20. These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.[\QUOTE]
The main reason is because Jesus and His disciples never got ill because they were endowed with the Holy Spirit which have the power to cure illness instantly, raise the dead, cast out demons; therefore they need not wash thier hands as the germs would have been killed by the Holy Spirit. Why not try not to wash your hands and eat every time or try eating garbage and see whether you will get sick or not?

What jesus was saying is that rigid handwashing of the Pharisee was not as important as what comes out of men's heart such as evil thoughts, murders, adulteries and what goes into the mouth is nothing compared to what comes out of the mouth such as cursing, blaspheming, lies etc.

[QUOTE]The second reason why your proposal is unacceptable and untenable is because germs do not cry out, speak audibly, or violently rip through a person, (torn) when they are cast out of the "house" of the man:

Mark 1:23-27 KJV
23. And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out,
24. Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
25. And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him.
26. And when the unclean spirit had torn him, and cried with a loud voice, he came out of him.
27. And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying, What thing is this? what new doctrine is this? for with authority commandeth he even the unclean spirits, and they do obey him.
:)
I have studied evil spirits and demons in the Bible for years and I have found that the ancient Jews classified them under 2 distinct causes. The ancient Jews believes that illnesses were caused by evil spirits (which we modern people know are caused by germs) and demons (which we modern humans know are caused by organic causes) such as mental illnesses, cancer, genetic diseases, hormonal diseases etc. In the above example, it seems the patient from my medical view was suffering from schizophrenia in which there is thought disorder. Schizophrenia is thought to be due to some chemical imbalance in the brain and Jesus probably caused a shock, I don't know how that resulted in the patient crying out in a loud voice quite akin to an electrical shock. It gave the impression that the "demon" was cast out. Same feeling when you saw a drunkard or mental patient hallucinating and talking to himself, which to an ignorant will think he is talking to an unknown entity such as a ghost or a demon; of course, we modern people know that is is the effect of alcohol and brain chemicals such as serotonin affecting the brain resulting in the hallucinations.

God Bless.:pray:

[toxon]

[QUOTE=toxon;63832]Hi CWH, :)
Actually I had left off from the thread and was not going to go any further because it was clear that you desired to speak of other things or at least have a different approach to the subject material than how I see it. I tried to make that clear at the end of my last post but if you do want to talk about such things we can. However, and I do not mean to be rude in any way, but if you are going to use examples not found in the Scripture such as what we now know to be "germs" then I do feel obligated to show from the Testimony of Yeshua why what you have proposed cannot be correct. The first reason the "germ theory" cannot be correct is because Yeshua clearly states that eating with unwashed hands is not what defiles the man. Ordinary sicknesses, illnesses, and such things caused by germs and bacteria do not make a man "defiled" in the eyes of the Creator. It is what is in the heart of the man that defiles him. Both the Matthew 15 and Mark 7 companion passages begin with the question of defilement and the washing of hands, cups, and utensils before eating which concerns the topic of germs that you have brought up:

Matthew 15:1-2 KJV
1. Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
2. Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

Mark 7:1-4 KJV
1. Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.
2. And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.
3. For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.
4. And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.

This is the answer from the Matthew passage, and not that we shouldn't worry about washing our hands or being cleanly but rather that germs are not what "defiles" a man in the sight of our Creator according to the doctrine of Yeshua:

Matthew 15:10-20 KJV
10. And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11. Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
12. Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
13. But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
14. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
15. Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
16. And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17. Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18. But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20. These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.[\QUOTE]
The main reason is because Jesus and His disciples never got ill because they were endowed with the Holy Spirit which have the power to cure illness instantly, raise the dead, cast out demons; therefore they need not wash thier hands as the germs would have been killed by the Holy Spirit. Why not try not to wash your hands and eat every time or try eating garbage and see whether you will get sick or not?

What jesus was saying is that rigid handwashing of the Pharisee was not as important as what comes out of men's heart such as evil thoughts, murders, adulteries and what goes into the mouth is nothing compared to what comes out of the mouth such as cursing, blaspheming, lies etc.


I have studied evil spirits and demons in the Bible for years and I have found that the ancient Jews classified them under 2 distinct causes. The ancient Jews believes that illnesses were caused by evil spirits (which we modern people know are caused by germs) and demons (which we modern humans know are caused by organic causes) such as mental illnesses, cancer, genetic diseases, hormonal diseases etc. In the above example, it seems the patient from my medical view was suffering from schizophrenia in which there is thought disorder. Schizophrenia is thought to be due to some chemical imbalance in the brain and Jesus probably caused a shock, I don't know how that resulted in the patient crying out in a loud voice quite akin to an electrical shock. It gave the impression that the "demon" was cast out. Same feeling when you saw a drunkard or mental patient hallucinating and talking to himself, which to an ignorant will think he is talking to an unknown entity such as a ghost or a demon; of course, we modern people know that is is the effect of alcohol and brain chemicals such as serotonin affecting the brain resulting in the hallucinations.

God Bless.:pray:

It seems you are simply making nice big circles so as to nullify what is written in simplistic childlike format and go your way around it. These things concern sin and false doctrine as the "devils" have their doctrines. Do germs lie at the door? Is the desire of them unto you? Well yes, and yes, but tell me how thou shalt rule over him if these things speak of germs? Is this like a modern version of germ warfare under a microscope? One must first believe the simplistic things in the simplistic ways they are presented before he can move on to the deeper meanings. The deeper meaning of devils, demons, and unclean spirits do not concern germs but rather doctrines. Man always has the beloved "daughters" of his doctrines: try not to marry yourself to them because in The End you and your seven wives will give birth to giants, mighty ones, and men that are named; men of old time, men having been written but never having been said to have "lived" because they are the dead and therefore the permanent dwellers upon the earth. Every man must deal with them sooner or later whether for the good or for the evil.

In addition you are acting as if I did not say what I said. Why would you say this:


"Why not try not to wash your hands and eat every time or try eating garbage and see whether you will get sick or not?"

When I clearly have already said this:


"not that we shouldn't worry about washing our hands or being cleanly but rather that germs are not what "defiles" a man in the sight of our Creator"

The doctrine of Yeshua is about cleansing "the inside of the cup".
Most everyone already knows to wash himself on the outside. :)