Eleventh son of Jacob

[duxrow]

After the initial eleven chapters of Genesis you may initially conclude that the order of generations is from Abraham to Isaac to Jacob to Joseph: but no, that Joseph was NOT in the father to son line (pedigree) of Christ, and neither is the Joseph who was husband to Mary. The name Joseph means "the LORD will add a son" Gen30:24 -- and the name Jacob means 'supplanted", Gen27:36.

But, haha, the Jacob to Joseph in Mt 1:16 really are a father-to-son which leads to Jesus -- the 'supplanter' Jacob is the key! Only two Jacob's in Scripture, one in Genesis and one in Matthew, and BOTH had sons named Joseph! (The Genesis-Joseph was eleventh son of Jacob -- guess how many Joseph's are listed in Scripture?).

Mt 1:16" And Jacob begat Joseph the (Gr. 'aner') of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ". Amen?
But perhaps her husband AND her father were both named Joseph... ?? :hide:

[duxrow]

Those familiar with the three generation periods of Matthew 1:16 (the 3x14) may appreciate how the OT uses similar technique for counting the generations to David.
The 1st Ten is from Adam to Noah,
the 2nd Ten is from Shem to Abraham (1Chr 1:24-27),
and 3rd Ten is from Pharez to David, in Ruth4:18.

This last Ten should have started with Isaac, but it SKIPS three names, just as Matthew skips three names.
The end result gives us 33 generations to David, and another 33 to Jesus. Like He really is "The Word" -- all 66 Books!:thumb:

[sylvius]

Those familiar with the three generation periods of Matthew 1:16 (the 3x14) may appreciate how the OT uses similar technique for counting the generations to David.
The 1st Ten is from Adam to Noah,
the 2nd Ten is from Shem to Abraham (1Chr 1:24-27),
and 3rd Ten is from Pharez to David, in Ruth4:18.

This last Ten should have started with Isaac, but it SKIPS three names, just as Matthew skips three names.
The end result gives us 33 generations to David, and another 33 to Jesus. Like He really is "The Word" -- all 66 Books!:thumb:

Matthew lists just 41 names (you can count after)

And how you come to "another 33 to Jesus"?


And since when is "The Word "= "all 66 Books"?

[duxrow]

Matthew lists just 41 names (you can count after)
And how you come to "another 33 to Jesus"?
And since when is "The Word "= "all 66 Books"?

1. Matthew starts with Abraham so leaves out the first 19, then skips names as does the 3x10 to David.
2. The first 33 are Adam-David -- second 33 from Solomon to Jesus. No counting names twice, and names (except Jacob) all different.
3. "The Word" dates from 'the beginning', like in John 1:1. Hallelujah! The ROCK is real Theophany!
http://cswnet.com/~duxrow/webdoc5.htm

[rdelmonico]

Is the purpose of the genealogy to establish his kingship, servitude, humanity, or diety? Lion, ox, man, or eagle.

Matthew, being a Levite, emphasizes Jesus as the Messiah, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah. Each of the subtleties of his design supports this primary theme. His genealogy begins with the "first Jew," Abraham, and continues through David and the royal line to the legal father of Jesus, Joseph.

Matthew's emphasis is on the fulfillment of the prophecies of the Tenach, the Old Testament.

As a customs official, Matthew was skilled in shorthand, an essential asset in a culture that did not have the advantages of printing, copiers, and the like. Matthew focuses on what Jesus said, and includes the extensive discourses, which he probably was able to take down verbatim.

Matthew's first miracle is the cleansing of a leper, a Jewish metaphor for sin itself. Matthew concludes with the resurrection, also a distinctive Jewish preoccupation.
Borrowed from Chuck Missler.

[duxrow]

Two Genealogies (Mt & Lk) King Line - Priest Line -- they differ because of 2 sons of David (Solomon and Nathan). The different spellings (ezekias is Hezekiah) and copycat names, add to confusion, and the added 'Cainan' in Lk is like a red-herring. :winking0071:
http://cswnet.com/~duxrow/webdoc51.htm

[rdelmonico]

Jesus could trace his blood line back to David through Nathan.
His legal claim to the throne went through Mary's father through Solomon.


from: http://www.remnantreport.com/cgi-bin/imcart/read.cgi?article_id=348&sub=22
Two Genealogies - Two Purposes

The two genealogies of our Lord are detailed differently in Matthew and in Luke because they serve two different purposes. The Gospel of Matthew shows the genealogy of Joseph. Luke gives us the genealogy of Mary. Both apply to Jesus for different reasons. The two genealogies solve a problem that occurred in Jeremiah 22:30.

Joseph's Lineage - Curse on Jeconiah's blood line

In this account God placed a curse on the royal blood line of Jeconiah saying that no child of his would prosper on the throne of David. The problem is that Jeconiah is in the blood line of Joseph.

Legal line through Solomon

Now in order for Jesus to be the King of Israel he had to be in the royal line of David - he must come from the legal line through Solomon. But the blood curse disqualifies anyone who has blood from Jeconiah to prosper.

Legal rights of King David

Joseph adopted Jesus, thus passing on the royal or legal rights of King David to Jesus without passing on the blood curse of Jeconiah. Jesus is the legal heir to the throne of David because of Joseph's family-tree through King Solomon.



Mary's genealogy

The Gospel of Luke, however, shows the genealogy of Mary - which is the blood line of David but through his other son, Nathan. Thus Jesus has the actual blood of David but without the curse. By the way, the virgin birth was necessary to accomplish this.

Who was Joseph's Father?

One more point to think about: Notice in Luke 3:23 that Joseph's father was Heli. But, Matthew 1:16 says that Joseph's father was Jacob! Jacob was Joseph's biological father. Heli was Joseph's father in-law. The Greek word used in Luke is ennomizeto "reckoned by law."

It was a custom in Israel for the father of the bride to adopt the groom. The legality of this custom was based upon a story in the Torah which tells of the Daughters of Zelophehad (Numbers 27:1-11 and Joshua 17:3-6). But, that is another story!



His Lineage Mirrors our "Genealogy" as Believers

The different genealogies in Matthew and Luke do not create a problem. They solve one! What follows opens our eyes to a "type" or model of believers:

In the same way that Joseph's blood was cursed, we also are cursed. In order for us to be accepted into the family of the King, we must be adopted by one who has pure and true blood. There is only one who is qualified to adopt us into the house of Israel: our Kinsman-redeemer who gave His blood for us on a cross two thousand years ago!

[duxrow]

Yes, I've heard all that. I'm not a fan of Missler, though have heard good things. The reports on Matthew seem reasonable to me, even though not confirmed IMO with scripture. Must disagree about the accepted teaching (canard) about Jeconiah (Coniah) who was LAST 'of David' to occupy throne King of Judah.
The Joseph-of-Jacob in Egypt was NOT in father-son line to David, and neither is the Joseph, Mary's husband, who was also a Son of Jacob! Check it out!

[rdelmonico]

Yes, I've heard all that. I'm not a fan of Missler, though have heard good things. The reports on Matthew seem reasonable to me, even though not confirmed IMO with scripture. Must disagree about the accepted teaching (canard) about Jeconiah (Coniah) who was LAST 'of David' to occupy throne King of Judah.
The Joseph in Egypt was NOT in father-son line to David, and neither is the Joseph, Mary's husband, who was a Son of Jacob! Check it out!

Sorry I meant: Mary's father adopted Joseph, the legal father of Jesus.

[sylvius]

1. Matthew starts with Abraham so leaves out the first 19, then skips names as does the 3x10 to David. "The 3 x10 to David" doesn't exist at all, it is just your invention. The Torah stresses another way of counting the generations, Genesis 25:19, And these are the generations of Isaac the son of Abraham; Abraham begot Isaac. Rashi:


Abraham begot Isaac: (Only after the Holy One, blessed be He, named him Abraham, did he beget Isaac. Another explanation:) Since Scripture wrote: “Isaac the son of Abraham,” it had to say: “Abraham begot Isaac,” because the scorners of the generation were saying that Sarah had conceived from Abimelech, for she had lived with Abraham for many years and had not conceived from him. What did the Holy One, blessed be He, do? He shaped the features of Isaac’s face to resemble Abraham’s, and everyone attested that Abraham had begotten Isaac. This is the meaning of what is written here: “Isaac, the son of Abraham,” because here is proof that “Abraham begot Isaac.” - [From Midrash Tanchuma, Toledoth 1] Matthew lists the generations of Abraham, i.e. Abram with an extra letter "hey" in his name. Isaac was the 21st generation, so in a sense Jesus is 21st generation too ("fulfillment of the promise") - The Torah being about the name of God in the 10-5-6-6 generations from Adam to Moses = the revelation at mount Sinai. cf.


http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/130439-strange-aint.html

Strange ain't it ?

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The name of G-d is hidden in the 26 generations from Adam to Moses,

as the 10 generations from Adam to Noach, enumerated in Genesis 5,
plus the 5 generations from Shem to Peleg, enumerated in Genesis 10:21-25,
plus the 6 generations from Rehu to Isaac, enumerated in Genesis 11:10-29
plus the 5 generations from Jacob to Moses, enumerated in Exodus 6:16-20.

These four groups coincide the four times mentioning of "eleh toldot" = " these are the generations" - Genesis 2:4, Genesis 6:9, Genesis 11:10, Genesis 37:2.

Something strange:
Isaac is not mentioned in Genesis 11, but: "And Sarai was barren; she had no child." (v. 29)


Isaac being the sixth geneartion of the third "eleh toldot" -- coinciding the "vav" of the name of God,

The "sh'ma" saying: "Hashem is one" , "adonai echad"

This oneness seemingly depending on the "vav" in his name, the "vav" connecting two "heh"'s,

So the "vav" is depending on the miraculous birth of Isaac.

and the birth of Isaac is depending on Abraham's circumcision...

That's strange ain' t it?

He copied that from me :eek: I did write that, I think on the late theologyweb.com. Just that he altered my "God" into "G-d".



2. The first 33 are Adam-David -- second 33 from Solomon to Jesus. No counting names twice, and names (except Jacob) all different. I still can't figure how you come to 33 generations from Solomon to Jesus.



3. "The Word" dates from 'the beginning', like in John 1:1. Hallelujah! The ROCK is real Theophany!
http://cswnet.com/~duxrow/webdoc5.htm
Does that mean that KJV is the word made flesh? :eek:

[duxrow]

Sylvie, you spend too much time with Rashi and not enough with The Word (whatever version you're dusting off) -- the ten names in Ruth4:18 begin with Pharez and end with David.

Pharez: spell it anyway you want; he's the twin of Tamar in Gen38 who didn't break the matrix (Ex13:15) and his daddy is Judah, whose daddy was Jacob, whose daddy was Isaac. Those 3 names were SKIPPED!

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, are the "3-part phrase" found throughout the NT, and I compare it to the Trinity, to infant-child-adult, Faith, Hope, Charity, * * * The Way, The Truth, The Life (Zoé), Yolk, white, shell * * * 3 into fiery furnace - Spirit, Soul, Body - 1Thes5:23 * * * Belt of Orion, Job9:9 /
Primary Colors: Red, Yellow, Blue * Scripture's Third Day * Triangle architecture and the 3-fold cord..

HOWEVER, the expression is also a 'teaser' in the sense that the 4th part would be Joseph to those who read only Genesis, but turns out to be Judah (Ps132:11) when the perspective is the Father-to-Son generations, like in a 4 generation photo op.. :banghead:

[sylvius]

Sylvie, you spend too much time with Rashi and not enough with The Word (whatever version you're dusting off) -- the ten names in Ruth4:18 begin with Pharez and end with David.

Pharez: spell it anyway you want; he's the twin of Tamar in Gen38 who didn't break the matrix (Ex13:15) and his daddy is Judah, whose daddy was Jacob, whose daddy was Isaac. Those 3 names were SKIPPED!

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, are the "3-part phrase" found throughout the NT, and I compare it to the Trinity, to infant-child-adult, Faith, Hope, Charity, * * * The Way, The Truth, The Life (Zoé), Yolk, white, shell * * * 3 into fiery furnace - Spirit, Soul, Body - 1Thes5:23 * * * Belt of Orion, Job9:9 /
Primary Colors: Red, Yellow, Blue * Scripture's Third Day * Triangle architecture and the 3-fold cord..

HOWEVER, the expression is also a 'teaser' in the sense that the 4th part would be Joseph to those who read only Genesis, but turns out to be Judah (Ps132:11) when the perspective is the Father-to-Son generations, like in a 4 generation photo op.. :banghead:

The "3 x 10 to David" is never mentioned.

Although it doesn't take away that David can be seen as 33rd generation from Adam.

But that's a thing only stressed by you, in order to count up to 66 generatiosn from Adam to Jesus.

And I don't know how you come to 33 generations from Solomon to Jesus.

And that the "The Word of God" should consist of the 66 books of KJV is just a laugh. You must have picked that up in Kindergarten.

[duxrow]

It's OK, Sylvie, to learn from some..(iron sharpens iron), but they make errors as we do, so the AUTHORITY must be the Word. For me, it's thanks to Bullinger and Panin, and even tidbits from Richard (hah), but the Holy Spirit is here to guide us into further truth. amen?

Sometimes a diagram or pic is worth a thousand words, so I've given some, but folks who already KNOW IT ALL, aren't interested in pursuing truth (only in advancing their own opinion) -- so I'm not interested in helping them. Tough Love, maybe?

Bye..