The Lord's Prayer

[Rose]

Most Christians are familiar with the Lord's Prayer, which instructs them to pray for god's will to be done on earth as in heaven.


Matt.6:7-10 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.



Jesus begins by instructing his followers to not use "vain repetitions" as the heathen do, and then proceeds to tell them to repeatedly pray that god's will be done on earth as in heaven.

Just think of all the billions of Christians who have repeatedly prayed for god's will to be done on earth as instructed by Jesus, yet no answer has been forthcoming for two thousand years! It seems the only conclusion one can come to is that Jesus lied, and god doesn't answer prayers, even if you pray correctly.

Rose

[sylvius]

Most Christians are familiar with the Lord's Prayer, which instructs them to pray for god's will to be done on earth as in heaven.


Matt.6:7-10 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.



Jesus begins by instructing his followers to not use "vain repetitions" as the heathen do, and then proceeds to tell them to repeatedly pray that god's will be done on earth as in heaven.

Just think of all the billions of Christians who have repeatedly prayed for god's will to be done on earth as instructed by Jesus, yet no answer has been forthcoming for two thousand years! It seems the only conclusion one can come to is that Jesus lied, and god doesn't answer prayers, even if you pray correctly.

Rose

"To pray" might be something else than "to manipulate".

[Rose]

http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Rose http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?p=59269#post59269)
Most Christians are familiar with the Lord's Prayer, which instructs them to pray for god's will to be done on earth as in heaven.

Matt.6:7-10 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.


Jesus begins by instructing his followers to not use "vain repetitions" as the heathen do, and then proceeds to tell them to repeatedly pray that god's will be done on earth as in heaven.

Just think of all the billions of Christians who have repeatedly prayed for god's will to be done on earth as instructed by Jesus, yet no answer has been forthcoming for two thousand years! It seems the only conclusion one can come to is that Jesus lied, and god doesn't answer prayers, even if you pray correctly.

Rose

"To pray" might be something else than "to manipulate".

Prayer is interpreted in the context and manner spoken of by Jesus, which does not mean to manipulate.

[sylvius]

Prayer is interpreted in the context and manner spoken of by Jesus, which does not mean to manipulate.

6But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you. 7 In praying, do not babble like the pagans, who think that they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them. Your Father knows what you need before you ask him.



Further more your stance is rather indecisive.




Just think of all the billions of Christians who have repeatedly prayed for god's will to be done on earth as instructed by Jesus, yet no answer has been forthcoming for two thousand years!

By which you express your belief in the goodness of God's will.

[David M]

Hello Rose and Sylvius

I began a new thread 'Why did Jesus pray' in this same section on the forum. That was before I spotted this thread and I noticed I had not commented.

I will will just remark on one comment made by Rose.
Jesus begins by instructing his followers to not use "vain repetitions" as the heathen do, and then proceeds
to tell them to repeatedly pray that god's will be done on earth as in heaven.

Just think of all the billions of Christians who have repeatedly prayed for god's will to be done on earth as instructed by Jesus, yet no answer has been forthcoming for two thousand years! It seems the only conclusion one can come to is that Jesus lied, and god doesn't answer prayers, even if you pray correctly.

First of all, Rose forgets the purpose of God. God's will shall be done completely in the fullness of time and not before. It is like praying for "the peace of Jerusalem". The peace of Jerusalem will come eventually.

Where does Jesus to tell them to repeatedly say the same words? Jesus says; After this manner That means; after this fashion. It does not say, repeat my words.

Jesus was showing us the pattern of prayer and not to repeat his words in "vain repetition". We need to study the structure of the prayer to see the different elements to the prayer.

I could surmise and say most prayers do not get answered, because they are not asked aright. What is "aright"? We have to work that out. One requirement is faith. Without faith in God, we are not going to please God and therefore, if we have no faith in him, why should he answer our prayer?

We are told what does count and so we ask ourselves; do our prayers match up to the following? (James 5:16) The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

That is it for now.

All the best
David

[Rose]

Hello Rose and Sylvius


I will will just remark on one comment made by Rose.

First of all, Rose forgets the purpose of God. God's will shall be done completely in the fullness of time and not before. It is like praying for "the peace of Jerusalem". The peace of Jerusalem will come eventually.

Where does Jesus to tell them to repeatedly say the same words? Jesus says; After this manner That means; after this fashion. It does not say, repeat my words.

Jesus was showing us the pattern of prayer and not to repeat his words in "vain repetition". We need to study the structure of the prayer to see the different elements to the prayer.

Hello David

Yes, Jesus tells his disciples the manner, or fashion in which to pray, and then proceeds to show them what he means by giving them a prayer to recite, which means that they are to repeat the call for god's will to be done on earth as it is in heaven until it happens ...

How many billions of times has the Lord's Prayer for his will to be done on earth been prayed in all it's variations, and still no answer has been forthcoming?


I could surmise and say most prayers do not get answered, because they are not asked aright. What is "aright"? We have to work that out. One requirement is faith. Without faith in God, we are not going to please God and therefore, if we have no faith in him, why should he answer our prayer?

We are told what does count and so we ask ourselves; do our prayers match up to the following? (James 5:16) The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

That is it for now.

All the best
David

You cannot say that the Lord's Prayer is not ask aright, because Jesus explicitly laid out the manner in which his believers should follow. People would not be praying the Lord's Prayer in the first place unless they had faith in god's ability to answer it.

Of course the simple reason why prayers are not answered, is that there is no Biblegod in heaven to answer them.

Take care
Rose