Re-casting the Christ Story ~ John Shelby Spong

[Rose]

A different take on the Bible and Christianity.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDNz2Ifn9k4#t=860

[Greatest I am]

If there is one man who could get me back into a church it would be Bishop Spong.

He is the only truthful man of the cloth that I know.

Hell, he even thinks that women are equal to men.

Regards
DL

[Richard Amiel McGough]

If there is one man who could get me back into a church it would be Bishop Spong.

He is the only truthful man of the cloth that I know.

Hell, he even thinks that women are equal to men.

Regards
DL
Yeah, he's a great guy, but his religion (if any) has nothing to do with Christianity. He's more a Buddhist than anything. His book "Why Christianity must change or die" should really have been named "Why Christianity must die" since the "change" he suggested was a denial of essentially everything that defines traditional Christianity.

[David M]

Yeah, he's a great guy, but his religion (if any) has nothing to do with Christianity. He's more a Buddhist than anything. His book "Why Christianity must change or die" should really have been named "Why Christianity must die" since the "change" he suggested was a denial of essentially everything that defines traditional Christianity.
Hello Richard
I agree with you, but I do not agree with Spong. If I agree with you that Christianity, as it is now, should die in favour of what following the true teaching of Jesus really means, why then do you disagree with me when I point out what is wrong with the "Chrisitian" doctrines taught today which have come from men down the past centuries? Why do you keep insisting "the Bible says this", which is in keeping with all that is wrong with most Christian religions today, which do not go back to the Hebrew roots, which is what Jesus taught? Jesus said on numerous occasions; "it is written" You know where it was written; it was in the ancient Hebrew scriptures. The whole of Jesus's teaching is based on those scriptures. The same scriptures of which the apostle Paul said; "all scripture is given by the inspiration of God" These were by the same inspired writers as said is Peter's letter;(2 Peter 1:21) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Since the message has come via human writers by the will of God, it is imperative we understand what the message is that God is conveying to us. To not do this and abandon finding the truth of God's message, you are putting yourself on the same level as the "Christians" you denounce. That is why I do not want to be associated with what mainstream Christianity teaches and what false Christians do.

All the best
David

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hello Richard
I agree with you, but I do not agree with Spong. If I agree with you that Christianity, as it is now, should die in favour of what following the true teaching of Jesus really means, why then do you disagree with me when I point out what is wrong with the "Chrisitian" doctrines taught today which have come from men down the past centuries? Why do you keep insisting "the Bible says this", which is in keeping with all that is wrong with most Christian religions today, which do not go back to the Hebrew roots, which is what Jesus taught? Jesus said on numerous occasions; "it is written" You know where it was written; it was in the ancient Hebrew scriptures. The whole of Jesus's teaching is based on those scriptures. The same scriptures of which the apostle Paul said; "all scripture is given by the inspiration of God" These were by the same inspired writers as said is Peter's letter;(2 Peter 1:21) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Since the message has come via human writers by the will of God, it is imperative we understand what the message is that God is conveying to us. To not do this and abandon finding the truth of God's message, you are putting yourself on the same level as the "Christians" you denounce. That is why I do not want to be associated with what mainstream Christianity teaches and what false Christians do.

All the best
David
Hey there David,

It is good to hear from you. How is your vacation away from the internet going?

I agree with most of what Spong says. I just thought the title of his book was misleading.

Now as for your very interesting questions -

You asked: "If I agree with you that Christianity, as it is now, should die in favour of what following the true teaching of Jesus really means, why then do you disagree with me when I point out what is wrong with the "Chrisitian" doctrines taught today which have come from men down the past centuries?"

First, I never said that "Christianity, as it is now, should die in favour of what following the true teaching of Jesus really means". I never said anything like that. Where did you get the idea that I would agree with that point? We know nothing of the teachings of Jesus except what is written in the Bible, and most mainstream versions of Christianity base their teachings, to a greater or lesser degree, on the Bible. I have never said that the problem was that modern Christianity is not sufficiently biblical.

Second, you have not, in general, been pointing out "what is wrong with Christian doctrines which have come down from men." On the contrary, you have been pushing the teachings that you have received from men yourself, which are largely contrary to what the Bible actually teaches (which, by the way, is itself a collection of "teachings of men"). That's why I cannot agree. It is obvious to me that you consistently use sophistry and rhetoric and logical fallacies in your effort to force the Bible to conform to the doctrines of the Christadelphians, which are the "teachings of men" invented quite recently (by biblical standards).

You asked "Why do you keep insisting "the Bible says this", which is in keeping with all that is wrong with most Christian religions today, which do not go back to the Hebrew roots, which is what Jesus taught?"

I insist that the "Bible says this" because that's what the Bible says.

The Hebrew roots movement is full of false teachers and endless errors. It's a breeding ground for cult leaders who elevate themselves.

Jesus did not teach the "Hebrew roots." On the contrary, Paul explicitly taught that the New Covenant believers were the true "Circumcision". And if you believe God inspired the Bible, then you must understand that he inspired it in Greek for a very good reason.

You said "That is why I do not want to be associated with what mainstream Christianity teaches and what false Christians do."

I'm sorry for the blunt speech, but your comment strikes me as pathetically absurd because you are, by your own admission, almost entirely ignorant of the history of Christianity and so you are ignorant of what the mainstream churches actually teach and why and how they derived it from the Bible. You have been very clear that you have no interest in theology or the history of Christianity, and so you are not even qualified to comment on their beliefs. You have no basis of any kind to believe that your fringe beliefs are "what Jesus really meant." I've been trying to help you see this for the whole time you have been on this forum, but for some reason you have stubbornly chosen to remain ignorant. I just don't get it. But there's nothing I can do about it but to wish you well.

And with that,

All the best,

Richard