Saul - Paul

[duxrow]

:typing: Saul/Paul allegory--Most surreal?
We become so used to thinking of the Apostle Paul that we may forget how he was named Saul prior to his conversion. He was of the Tribe of Benjamin, just as was the Saul of the OT. That OT Saul, the first king of Israel, had a notable conflict with David, and when you read the story carefully it's telling in disguised terms about how the old man of the flesh dies (Saul), and the new hidden man of the heart emerges (David). It's probably the most surreal of all the allegories, but it answers some questions like why king Saul didn't seem to recognize David, or why David wanted his enemy Saul to keep on living.

2Sam 3:10 - "To translate the kingdom from the house of Saul, and to set up the throne of David over Israel and over Judah, from Dan even to Beersheba".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1Sam16:23 "And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand:
so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him".

1Sam17:58 And Saul said to him, Whose son art thou, thou young man?

In chapter 16 we read about David ministering to Saul by playing the harp. So maybe he played from a distance, or behind a screen of some kind? Because in the following chapter Saul doesn't recognize David, and it raises the question 'How could you not know somebody you've already met? The New Testament tells us about the "old man of the flesh", and the "new hidden man of the heart"! 1Pet3:4

Had the first name of Paul been 'Richard', we might never have connected the two accounts and appreciated the intricate skill of the Great Author in burying surreal accounts simultaneously with building the 66 books of the Bible. :typing:

[sylvius]

Saul = שָׁאוּל. Shaul, written with the same letters as שְׁאוֹל , Sh'ol = the nether world.

Root "shaal" = to ask, inquire; to wish, seek, desire.

So the name Saul implies a certain dissatisfaction.

He lost his kingship because of sparing Agag, the king of the Amalekites. (1 Samuel 15:7-9 And Saul smote Amalek, from Havilah until you come to Shur, which is in front of Egypt. And he seized Agag, the king of Amalek, alive; and he completely destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword.
And Saul and the people had pity on Agag, / v.26. And Samuel said to Saul, "I shall not return with you, for you have rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord has rejected you from being a king over Israel.")

Amalek came (and always comes) when there is doubt about the existence of God. (Genesis 17)

Gematria of Amalek 240 coincides gematria of "safeik" = doubt.

http://www.shortvort.com/beshalach-parasha/10659-as-soon-as-we-let-doubt-in-then-amalek-comes

[duxrow]

Saul = שָׁאוּל. Shaul, written with the same letters as שְׁאוֹל , Sh'ol = the nether world.

Root "shaal" = to ask, inquire; to wish, seek, desire.

So the name Saul implies a certain dissatisfaction.

He lost his kingship because of sparing Agag, the king of the Amalekites. (1 Samuel 15:7-9 And Saul smote Amalek, from Havilah until you come to Shur, which is in front of Egypt. And he seized Agag, the king of Amalek, alive; and he completely destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword.
And Saul and the people had pity on Agag, / v.26. And Samuel said to Saul, "I shall not return with you, for you have rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord has rejected you from being a king over Israel.")

Amalek came (and always comes) when there is doubt about the existence of God. (Genesis 17)

Gematria of Amalek 240 coincides gematria of "safeik" = doubt.

http://www.shortvort.com/beshalach-parasha/10659-as-soon-as-we-let-doubt-in-then-amalek-comes
:chores037: Agree, Sylvie -- Have seen how Amalek is a type of Satan and Samuel a type of the Holy Spirit (ghost).
The OT is "for our learning", and these types apply to the language of the NT. Amen?
New subject while you're on board: The Lunar year is shorter than the Solar year by about eleven (11) days. The Hebrews added the second month 'Adar' every 3rd year, to prevent snowfall from occurring in the summer, but even this 33 day correction didn't keep the seasons from gradually shifting. And you say? :yo:

[sylvius]

:The Lunar year is shorter than the Solar year by about eleven (11) days. The Hebrews added the second month 'Adar' every 3rd year, to prevent snowfall from occurring in the summer, but even this 33 day correction didn't keep the seasons from gradually shifting. And you say? :yo:

not quite correct

In every 19 years there are 7 years with 13 months and 12 years with 12 months, which reconciles sun and moon.

It is called ibbur-cycle

https://sites.google.com/site/birkathachamah/chapter-6--the-luni-solar-cycle


there is a 19-year cycle which brings the lunar and solar years in to sync by way of leap months. This 19-year cycle is referred to in Pirkei D'Rebbi Eliezer as the Ibbur Cycle (עיבור is the word used to refer to leap month. A leap year in Hebrew is שנה מעוברת)

[duxrow]

OK, Sylvie.. Now if calendar allows season to move, is it possible, do you think, for the "firstfruits" of grain crop to have occurred on the 18th of Abib?

953

[sylvius]

OK, Sylvie.. Now if calendar allows season to move, is it possible, do you think, for the "firstfruits" of grain crop to have occurred on the 18th of Abib?

953


Sorry Dux, but I do think this to be pure nonsense :bawl:

[duxrow]

Method to my madness? Sylvie..
According to Jude 14, it was ENOCH who reported how the Lord would be coming with ten thousand Saints (maybe some from Vatican?), and the Four Generations:
Enoch-ll/Methuselah/Lamech-ll/Noah concluded with the Ark building.

954

Jude14 "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints" :eek:

[sylvius]

Method to my madness? Sylvie..
According to Jude 14, it was ENOCH who reported how the Lord would be coming with ten thousand Saints (maybe some from Vatican?), and the Four Generations:
Enoch-ll/Methuselah/Lamech-ll/Noah concluded with the Ark building.

954

Jude14 "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints" :eek:

in Greek it even sounds nicer:

Προεφήτευσεν δὲ καὶ τούτοις ἕβδομος ἀπὸ Ἀδὰμ Ἑνὼχ λέγων, Ἰδοὺ ἦλθεν κύριος ἐν ἁγίαις μυριάσιν αὐτοῦ
Proephèteusen de kai toutois hebdomos apo Adam Enoch legon, Idou èlthen kurios en hagiais muriasin autou.

Did he prophecy of you too?

v.8-13,

Similarly, these dreamers nevertheless also defile the flesh, scorn lordship, and revile glorious beings (...) these people revile what they do not understand and are destroyed by what they know by nature like irrational animals.Woe to them!They followed the way of Cain, abandoned themselves to Balaam’s error for the sake of gain, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. 12These are blemishes on your love feasts, as they carouse fearlessly and look after themselves. They are waterless clouds blown about by winds, fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead and uprooted.They are like wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shameless deeds, wandering stars for whom the gloom of darkness has been reserved forever.

[duxrow]

:huhsign: I've sailed the seven seas, so was facetiously telling someone I spoke every language but Greek, and my young son took it for truth. Couple years later he brought me some writing (probably spanish), and I told him "that's Greek to me".. He was downcast, but I hadn't meant it for nonplussed.
Meaning, Sylvie, there are times I think we're in agreement even if we're from different cultures. :winking0071:
Sayonara, now. /s/ dux

[David M]

Hello Dux

I am not so good at making these connections as you appear to be. I do listen to talks in which these types of associations are made. That is why over many years of listening and reading the Bible, it contains far more wisdom than the unlearned in the scriptures could ever imagine. This is what indicates the divine authorship of the Bible and no group of human authors alone could create such a work.

King Saul was the people's choice and was chosen on looks and stature than anything right about his heart. King David was God's choice and chosen from what God could see in David's heart. The example of David gives us great hope and the example of one who delighted in God's law. David sinned against God and admitted his sin. David did not go unpunished for that sin, but was spared death. David's heart (for the most part) was right with God and God called him a friend. How many have had that title given them?

Saul whose name was changed to Paul, was selected by God. He was doing wrong, though his heart was in the right place. He thought he was doing God's work destroying Christians. He was redirected and his zeal continued along the right path.

The problem today is the people chose their leaders, instead of seeking God's advice. Where God's advice is not sought, God is deciding who fills those positions as leaders. That is why "the basest of men" (Dan 4:17) manage to get to positions we think ought never to happen. God's hand can be seen working in the kingdoms of men (Dan 4:17) and is proof that God is still at work today in bringing about his purpose. These things are designed for the faithful to witness while the cynics will not see them and remain blind.

Keep making the associations. The more you find, the more remarkable God's word is.

All the best
David

[Unregistered]

I've been coming at this from another angle, or "receiving it", whatever, in quite similiar fashion. My own 'custom assembly' , though essentially it has
the led to the same implications. The two approachs in conjuction with one another yield more than mere implication. Or so I propose.

I've had an experience of late that has, for the first time for me, has results with the aposotle Paul being front and center, so to speak in relation to this
particular situation. And by Paul, I mean Paul and the epistles of Paul, but in particular those such as 2nd Timothy that * to me * are clearly expressed by
the more "feminine" side of Holy Spirit that is evident in Luke, Proverbs, Psalms, to name 3. On a side note Paul and Sophia are both 781. Uriah is also 781,
and given Bathsheba was Solomon's mother...well, I think something in going on here, given the Wisdom (or Sophia, as some choose to use) Solomon received.

Anyhow though. The Saul / Paul and the OT Saul have long suggested to me something other than coincidence or a lack of names to use. But I came upon
David soothing him with the harp, and found this most intriguing. Do the Psalms of David sound like the poetry of a warrior, or, perhaps, more like the expression
of his 'other half '? The read like the female aspect of the soul to me, as does the harp.

But to the point , I submit the following to support that assertion that you indeed have something here. I saw this only earlier today (prior to seeing this post, mind you)

PSLAM 54 : To the Chief Musician. With stringed instruments.
A Contemplation of David when the Ziphites went and said to Saul

" Is David not hiding with us "

It can be claimed I'm reaching here, but when I read this earlier it immediately struck me to perceive this in the tone you've addressed.
i.e. "Within us", as opposed to in a closet or something somewhere. And I'd yet to encounter this post / suggestion. Nonetheless, I "knew"
this very thing was being alluded to. Temporarly speaking, I couldn't have, but for quite some time now the experience of events occurring out of
equence and/or getting information out of (temporal) order has built steadily * from hours to days, & rarely, months * as to be accustomed to it now.
So while this surely sounds like madness to some, or is, all the same I felt it worthy of mention. And thanks. I will be looking into this now...

[sylvius]

Jude14 "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints" :eek:


Genesis 5:25
And Enoch walked with God, and he was no longer, for God had taken him.



Rashi:

And Enoch walked: He was a righteous man, but he could easily be swayed to return to do evil. Therefore, the Holy One, blessed be He, hastened and took him away and caused him to die before his time. For this reason, Scripture changed [the wording] in [the account of] his demise and wrote, “and he was no longer” in the world to complete his years. — [from Gen. Rabbah 25:1]

for God had taken him: Before his time, like (Ezek. 24:16):“behold I am taking from you the desire of your eyes.” - [from Gen. Rabbah 25:1]


v.24,
And all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty five years.

That's strange, since we saw that the ideal Yom Kippur is the 365th day (355 days of a year of twelve moonmonths + 10 days), 365th day on which Satan (the public prosecutor) doesn't exist, since his gematria 364 falls 1 short to 365.

[sylvius]

MIDRASH RABBAH

http://archive.org/stream/RabbaGenesis/midrashrabbahgen027557mbp#page/n7/mode/2up

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q262/suivlys/AndEnochwalked.jpg (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/suivlys/media/AndEnochwalked.jpg.html)

So Jude is a sectarian :yo:

[duxrow]

Enoch was murdered? :eek:
1. Lamech in the line of Cain matches with Enoch's generation, and he confessed to killing "a young man". Moreover he compared it to how Cain was cursed for killing Abel.

2. Enoch was 'young' (only 365) compared to the 8-900 of others in that period. Seems to me that the Holy Ghostwriter is preparing us for "Absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord". You think?