New Name!

[duxrow]

1. Enoch the 7th from Adam didn't get a new name -- instead, his name was copied from the Line of Cain.. from the son of that murderer. I wonder why?

2. Lamech the 9th from Adam didn't get a new name -- instead his name was copied from the Line of Cain.. from the 7th generation guy with two wives. I wonder why?

3. Counting backwards now: baby Jesus#66, mother Mary#65, Mary's father Joseph#64, grandpa Jacob-II #63 (Matt 1:16)

4. 7x9=63 (Now wouldn't this just hairlip the governor?):yo:

[sylvius]

1. Enoch the 7th from Adam didn't get a new name -- instead, his name was copied from the Line of Cain.. from the son of that murderer. I wonder why?

2. Lamech the 9th from Adam didn't get a new name -- instead his name was copied from the Line of Cain.. from the 7th generation guy with two wives. I wonder why?

3. Counting backwards now: baby Jesus#66, mother Mary#65, Mary's father Joseph#64, grandpa Jacob-II #63 (Matt 1:16)

4. 7x9=63 (Now wouldn't this just hairlip the governor?):yo:

Genesis 4:17 reads Hebrew, "vay'hi boneh ir" = and he became a citybuilder, not: and he built a city.

So the name of any city, also in the modern world, is Enoch.

You should read the bible through other eyes ...

[duxrow]

NEW NAME..plus
1. Enoch the 7th from Adam didn't get a new name -- instead, his name was copied from the Line of Cain.. from the son of that murderer. I wonder why?

2. Lamech the 9th from Adam didn't get a new name -- instead his name was copied from the Line of Cain.. from the 7th generation guy with two wives. I wonder why?

3. Counting backwards now: baby Jesus#66, mother Mary#65, Mary's father Joseph#64, grandpa Jacob-II #63 (Matt 1:16)

4. 7x9=63 (Now wouldn't this just hairlip the governor?)

Plus: The 3rd list of ten generations is at Ruth 4:18 -- can you spot the 3 generations that were skipped?

[sylvius]

NEW NAME..plus
1. Enoch the 7th from Adam didn't get a new name -- instead, his name was copied from the Line of Cain.. from the son of that murderer. I wonder why?

2. Lamech the 9th from Adam didn't get a new name -- instead his name was copied from the Line of Cain.. from the 7th generation guy with two wives. I wonder why?

3. Counting backwards now: baby Jesus#66, mother Mary#65, Mary's father Joseph#64, grandpa Jacob-II #63 (Matt 1:16)

4. 7x9=63 (Now wouldn't this just hairlip the governor?)

Plus: The 3rd list of ten generations is at Ruth 4:18 -- can you spot the 3 generations that were skipped?

Also Rome was built by a brothermurderer.

The names were not copied.

Lamech with his two wives just followed the rule of the generation of the flood.

Rashi:

two wives: So was the custom of the generation of the Flood, one [wife] for propagation and one for marital relations. The one who was for marital relations would be given a potion of roots to drink, so that she should become sterile (in some editions, the following does not appear), and he would adorn her like a bride and feed her delicacies, but her companion was neglected and was mourning like a widow. This is what Job explained (24:21): “He feeds the barren woman who will not bear, but he does not adorn the widow.” [This is] as explained in the Aggadah of Chelek (Sanh. ch. 10) (not found in our edition, but in Gen. Rabbah 23:2).

[duxrow]

Also Rome was built by a brothermurderer.
"City of Enoch" likewise, I'm sure..

The names were not copied.
Not copied? What do you call it when you take someone else's name for your own? Maybe thievery? "Accentuate the positive, and eliminate the negative, and don't mess with mister.."

Lamech with his two wives just followed the rule of the generation of the flood.

Hah! Old wives tale for sure. Lamech of Cain line in same period as Enoch#7, and probably his murderer too!

[sylvius]

Hah! Old wives tale for sure. Lamech of Cain line in same period as Enoch#7, and probably his murderer too!


The Lamech in the Cain's line might be the same Lamech as the Lamech in the Seth's line.
"for nothing is impossible for God"

Luke's 77 generations from Adam to Jesus coincide the 77 times Lamech was revenged.

[duxrow]

Brides get to choose their last names when they say "I do".

They didn't have last names in the OT, but were identified by who their father was.. [Isa44:5 refers]

Jesus said: "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it". John 8:44 KJV

[sylvius]

Brides get to choose their last names when they say "I do".

They didn't have last names in the OT, but were identified by who their father was.. [Isa44:5 refers]

Jesus said: "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it". John 8:44 KJV

OIOW we all stem from Cain.

[duxrow]

Raising Cain is not recommended usually. Did he really have any heirs?

Your Luke count is off by 3 -- only 74. Were you counting Cainan twice? The 3:37 is ok, but 3:36 a copyist error.

David is #33 and Jesus#66 -- KING LINE of Matthew, where all names are different except for 2 Jacobs..

Four Joseph's in the PRIEST LINE of Luke, beginning with priest Zacharias and wife Elizabeth.

[sylvius]

Raising Cain is not recommended usually. Did he really have any heirs?

Your Luke count is off by 3 -- only 74. Were you counting Cainan twice? The 3:37 is ok, but 3:36 a copyist error.

David is #33 and Jesus#66 -- KING LINE of Matthew, where all names are different except for 2 Jacobs..

Four Joseph's in the PRIEST LINE of Luke, beginning with priest Zacharias and wife Elizabeth.

I think Luke inserted an extra Cainan to arrive at the number of 77 generations.

Cain killed Abel, whose blood will come upon our generation, the 77th from Adam.

Abel = Hebrew Hevel with RAM's number 37.

[duxrow]

I think Luke inserted an extra Cainan to arrive at the number of 77 generations.
In that case, why did Lamech#9 die aged 777?
Cain killed Abel, whose blood will come upon our generation, the 77th from Adam.
66 books in the Bible, the WORD, from Genesis to Revelation.


Hezekiah is Generation#46 -- silly me, but when you know Abraham is Generation#20,
that means there would be 46 generations to follow... right? 2x prime number 23..

[sylvius]

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0012_0_11781.html


LAMECH

LAMECH (Heb. לֶמֶךְ), one of the antediluvian patriarchs in Genesis. According to the list recounting the lineage of Cain (Gen. 4:17–24 – ascribed to the J tradition), Lamech was the son of Methushael (4:18) and the father of three sons, *Jabal, *Jubal, and *Tubal-Cain, and a daughter, Naamah (4:20–22). His wives were *Adah and Zillah (4:19). He was thus the first polygynist and the father of the founders of nomadism, the musical arts, and metalworking. He is also the author of a song (4:23–24), which is structurally and linguistically an example of early Hebrew poetry. Significantly, Lamech is the seventh human generation, and in his song the typological numbers 7 and 77 appear (4:24). Another genealogy of Lamech (assigned to the P tradition) is presented in a list of the descendants of Seth (5:25–31; I Chron. 1:3). In this list, Lamech is the son of Methuselah and the father of Noah. He was 182 years old when Noah was born, and he subsequently had other sons and daughters (Gen. 5:30). He is the seventh generation from Enosh. In this there is a numerical and structural parallel to the other tradition insofar as Enosh is a generic term for man, alongside Adam. Significantly, here, too, the number seven appears, for Lamech lived 777 years (5:31). The relationship between the two lists presents a problem. On the basis of related number typologies, parallel historical frameworks, the reduplication of names (e.g. Enoch; Lamech), and other resemblances, they would seem to derive from a common source, the first probably being the earlier since it records seven generations, while the second counts ten. It is presumed that the latter is an expansion of the former.

The origin and meaning of the name is not clear. An Akkadian noun lumakku, sometimes suggested for comparison, refers to a junior priest attested only in lexical lists (CAD L, 244–45). Alternatively, an Arabic etymology would explain this name as "mighty youth," an epithet suitable to Lamech's character.

[Michael Fishbane]
In the Apocrypha

The story of Cain's death at the hand of Lamech, his descendant, is apparently unknown in the Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha (but see *Lamech, Book of). It may be referred to in the Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs, Benjamin 7:4 which brings together the "Song of Lamech" and the curse laid upon Cain. In the best manuscript of the Testament, however, Cain's death is said to have been due to the Flood. Lamech, the father of Noah, is mentioned in the Apocrypha in Jubilees 4:27–28 and I Enoch 10:1, and in Jubilees 7:38 some emphasis is put on the fact that it was he who transmitted the teaching of Enoch to Noah. Moreover, the Noah fragment in I Enoch 106 contains the story of the birth of Noah as a wondrous, shining child. Lamech fears that this baby is not his own child, but the offspring of the Watchers and goes to ask his father Methusaleh to inquire of his father Enoch. He is reassured by Enoch. This story also occurs, with some variants, in the second column of the Genesis Apocryphon from Qumran. There, the name of Enoch's wife is Batenosh, as in Jubilees 4:27 (Bêtênôs). The same story is also evidently reflected in the fragmentary text 1Q19, the so-called "Book of Noah."

[Michael E. Stone]
In the Aggadah

Most of the legends about Lamech, the grandson of Cain, center around his killing of his grandfather. He was blind and when he went hunting, he was led by his young son Tubal-Cain, who would tell his father when game came in sight, so that Lamech could shoot at it with his bow and arrow. Once he aimed at some horned creature which Tubal-Cain thought to be a beast. In fact it was Cain, the "sign of Cain" being a horn in the forehead, and he killed him. In despair, Lamech smote his hands together inadvertently killing Tubal-Cain. After this incident his wives, Adah and Zillah, wanted to leave him on the ground that Cain's descendants were doomed to annihilation. But Lamech argued, "If Cain who committed murder with malice aforethought, was punished only in the seventh generation, then, I who have killed inadvertently may hope that retribution will be postponed for 77 generations" (cf. Gen. 4:23). Lamech and his wives put their case to Adam who decided the case in favor of Lamech (Tanh. Gen. 11). According to another tradition, Lamech's wives refused to have intercourse with him because they knew that a flood was to come and therefore they did not want to bear children. Whereupon Lamech answered "Cain was guilty of murder, yet judgment was suspended in his case for seven generations; for me who am guiltless of this crime, surely judgment will wait 77 generations" (Gen. R. 23:4). Lamech took one wife solely for sexual gratification, and the other for procreation (ibid. 23:2).

[sylvius]

Genesis 4:22,
And Zillah she too bore Tubal-cain, who sharpened all tools that cut copper and iron, and Tubal-cain's sister was Na'amah.

Rashi:
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8168#showrashi=true

Tubal-cain: He refined the craft of Cain. Tubal is related to the word תַּבְלִין (spices). He “spiced” and “refined” Cain’s craft to make weapons for murderers- [from Gen. Rabbah 23:3].

weapons for murderers = "k'lei zayin l'rotschim"

"zayin" , name of the seventh letter, according to some with the original meaning of (not circumcised) male organ.

Zillah in fact was the wife Lamech did have for sexual pleasure ("oneg" - gematria 123, a permutation of RAM's 231 gates)

" who sharpened all tools that cut copper and iron " - father of the digital generation = our generation.

[sylvius]

Genesis 4:12, When you till the soil, it will not continue to give its strength to you; you shall be a wanderer and an exile in the land.



a wanderer and an exile: You have no permission to dwell in one place

Always restless, with no permission to enter Sabbath (= kingdom of God)

v.16:
And Cain went forth from before the Lord, and he dwelt in the land of the wanderers, to the east of Eden

"East of Eden" , i.e. Eden lies in the west = in the future, like a kind of Utopia.

The only way out is via Noach and his ark, Genesis 5:29,

'And he named him Noach, saying, "This one will give us rest from our work and from the toil of our hands from the ground, which the Lord has cursed."

Ark = Hebrew "teivah" = word (as written with letters).

[duxrow]

OK Sylvie, I'm open to thinking one of the wives on Noah's Ark may have been a descendant of Cain, but most of his line would've been drowned in the Deluge. Right? And since the Bible doesn't say, it's simply conjecture... (which I agree can be entertaining).

However, for my part, you can forget the 'legends' and apocryphal writings -- I don't even care for the modern translations (NIV), but usually accept only the KJV as authentic and reliable. :yo:

[sylvius]

but usually accept only the KJV as authentic and reliable. :yo:
That's where our roads go apart :winking0071:

[duxrow]

Just as well, I suppose. Neither of us seem to address the issues of the other.. Seems like we're both on the side of believing Jehovah, but with different POV.. :eek:

[duxrow]

:deadhorse:Tubalcain, son of Zillah and Lamech the first, was the first 'Smith' -- a worker in metal. His sister 'Naamah' is thought by some to have been wife to Noah, but nothing in scripture to support that notion. You think? :yo:

962

[duxrow]

:deadhorse:Tubalcain, son of Zillah and Lamech the first, was the first 'Smith' -- a worker in metal. His sister 'Naamah' is thought by some to have been wife to Noah, but nothing in scripture to support that notion. You think? :yo:

962
This diagram shows the connection between that first Lamech and the second Enoch -- Enoch was that 'young man' killed by Lamech-1. Make sense? :yo:

[sylvius]

This diagram shows the connection between that first Lamech and the second Enoch -- Enoch was that 'young man' killed by Lamech-1. Make sense? :yo:
Enoch was 365 years old, so hardly a child.

According to Jewish tradition it was Tubal-cain who was killed.

Rashi:



his wives separated from being intimate with him (Lemech) because he had slain Cain and Tubal-cain, his (Lemech’s) son. [The story was] that Lemech was blind, and Tubal-cain was leading him. He spotted Cain, who appeared to him as an animal, and he told his father to draw the bow, and he killed him. As soon as he learned that it was his grandfather Cain, he clapped his hands together [in anguish] and clapped his son between them and killed him. So his wives separated from him, and he attempted to appease them.