Richard Amiel McGough
12-20-2007, 07:20 PM
I received this email and thought it would be good to answer it here since I am sure other folks would like to know where I stand on these issues.
The first thing to note is my Fundamental Rule of Biblical Hermeneutics which states that every doctrine of Christianity must be supported by at least two or three clear and unambiguous passages of Scripture. This standard quickly cleans out the weeds from our eschatological garden. For example, the doctrine of the earthly millennial reign of Christ could be true, but it is not sufficiently supported by Scripture to be taught as doctrine because Revelation 20 doesn't say He rules on earth, and the OT never says the kingdom will last a thousand years (as well as other problems).
Hello Richard,
A couple of nights ago I was researching the Book of Esther, and came to your site for some more dimension to certain issues, and discovered your forum.
I was shocked to learn that you feel that all prophecy was fulfilled in the first century. I have not read all your forum pages, so I don't want to assume anything, and wanted to write you to see if I understand what you are saying, correctly. Are you saying that there is NO prophecy to be yet fulfilled? And that the endtimes were in Jesus day in the 1st century, and nothing for today?
The Bible clearly states that the "end times" occurred in the first century. A few examples:
Acts 2:16-17 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:
Hebrews 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. In the last example from John, he told his first cerntury audience that the "last time" (literally last hour) was happening right then in the first century, and that they knew it because the antichrists were appearing, just as Christ had warned in the Olivet Discourse that false Christs and false prophets would appear before He came on the clouds of heaven in judgement on Jerusalem.
No second coming?
Most of the verses that you have been reading as referring to a "second coming" were in the context of the Olivet Discourse and Revelation, which we know were fulfilled in the first century. There could be a future second coming, but if so, I am not aware of any clear prophecy of it in the Bible.
Is everything I've believed, as well as my parents, grandparents, and their parents before them, about the consumation of the ages already over 2,000 years ago?
Everything you have believed about eschatology appears to have been colored by a futurist view that completely ignored the first century fulfillment declared by the Bible and confirmed in history. For example, at Pentecost, Peter said that "all the prophets" had spoken of "these days." And Jesus said that the destruction of Jerusalem in the first century were "the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luke 21:22). Everything confirms everything else. This is the plain teaching of the Holy Bible.
I am always surprised when folks implicitly minimize the the great and glorious coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in the first century as if it were "disappointing" to learn that the Lord God Almighty was born a baby, lived a perfect life, died for our sins, and rose victorious unto life eternal - all back in the first century.
If so, do we just follow the Lord, grow old and die, before we can be with Him?
That's how its been done by every Christian person who has ever lived. Why do you have a problem with that?
Was His Second Coming just in judgment for Jerusalem (and to live in our hearts?)
The Bible doesn't call it "His Second Coming" so neither do I.
Is He not coming for His church, His Bride?
He has come for His Bride. We are it! The New Jerusalem is His Church, the Bride, that "came down out of heaven." The Bible is explicit on this point:
Revelation 21:9-10 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,See now what happens when we read what the Bible really teaches? The futurist idea that there will be a literal city called "New Jerusalem" is not in the text at all! The Bible says that the New Jerusalem is the Bride, and we know that the Bride is the Church. Everything ties together with simplicity, clarity, and perfection.
What about Armageddon? When was that?
The Book of Revelation describes the destruction of apostate Jerusalem (the Harlot called Mystery Babylon) by the Roman beast. Armageddon represents the final war in which over a million Jews were slaughtered, much like what Jesus warned. Though there are many symbols in Revelation that folks can dispute and discuss, there proof of the overall meaning of the book comes from its profound integration with Daniel and the Olivet Discourse. Four example, immediately before the discourse Christ said that all the blood of the martyrs would be required of the first century Jews, and when Babylon is judged in Revelation, she "And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth" (Revelation 18:24). Again, the all the pieces fit together with great precision. There is nothing like this high degree of integrity found in the futurist writings.
What was the mark of the beast?
We don't have space here to discuss all the possible intepretations. But I can certainly tell you what it is not. It is not a bar code. It is not your social secutity number. It is not a biochip implant.
When was Damascus destroyed? Isa 17:1 says that Damascus is taken away from being a city, and shall be a ruinous heap. When He destroyed Sodom, Gomorrah and Babylon they didn't come back, although there are plans to re-build Babylon--time will tell. But, Damascus is the oldest inhabited city, and still is in existence.
Isaiah 17 does not say that Damascus would be ruined forever. It simply says it would be ruined. His prophecy was fullfilled in 735 BC by Tiglath-Pileser III. This is common knowledge. Here's a typical statement of the history of Damascus (http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/damascus.htm) that you can find from many sources:
Damascus was captured and destroyed by the Assyrians under Tiglath-Pileser. The inhabitants were carried captive into Assyria, just like the northern kingdom of Israel (2 Kings 16:7-9). This fall was a fulfillment of prophecy (Isaiah 17:1, Amos 1:4-5, Jeremiah 49:24)
Do you see the problem? Pop prophecy teachers just rip these prophecies out of context and proclaim they were not fulfilled. This is why there is so much confusion in the field of eschatology.
Being on the FiveDoves, I know that you know where I'm coming from. I see the rise of a great evil in Islam; just as though it was the fourth reich. I see the Islamic countries in Eze 38 and Psa 83 coming to the forefront wanting to wipe Israel out from being a nation.
Let me speak frankly. I believe you are reading things into the Bible that are not really there. Folks have interpreted those verses for many years with no reference to Islam - until late in the 20th century after the fall of the USSR, and especially now after 9/11. And this is how "prophecy" always goes. Folks read the newspapers and try to find the headlines in the ancient prophecies. And of course, you can always find a link or two ... and then the headlines change again, and so do the interpretations of the futurist prophecies. I don't believe any of it! Like datesetters, they have always been wrong.
And no the USSR doesn't exist anymore, but Russia sure does, and is gaining strength as a world power feeding arms to the Islamic states, including nukes that could end our civilization.
That's all speculation without any real links to anything in the Bible.
And then there is the New World Order and the verichip tracking they intend to force on us May of '08.
How many false predictions have you believed in the past? When May 08 comes and goes and there is no "New World Order" and no "verichip tracking" will you think to youself "I was wrong again! Why do I believe these stories anyway?" I pray you will, so you will be free from these unbiblical end time distractions. They do not serve God at all. People have been talking about stuff like this for decades and they are always wrong. And things that are wrong are not true, and we worship the Truth, do we not? So let us abandon falsehood and seek the full light of God's Truth in Jesus Christ our Lord.
I have also noticed that even secular people are talking about end-time issues, feeling something BIG is about to happen.
Yes, I've noticed that too. "Global warming" is just another "end times scenario" for unbelievers.
I see the church today divided with dozens of different and conflicting doctrines.
When hasn't it been like that?
I see the Jews fervently praying at the Wall during Annapolis crying out to God in the only way they understand. Do you not see this as a possibility that God plans to do another great work, as in Zec 12?
Zechariah 12 was fulfilled in the first century. John said so explicitly:
John 19:36-37 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. 37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced. [Zech 12:10]And the verse that follows it speaks of the destruction of Jerusalem in the first century.
The rabbis (Pharisees) have greatly deceived the Jewish people with the oral law IMHO, what about Romans 11:11-12, v 25-26, 28 or Isa 40:31? Plus all the scriptures (post-Pentecost, as well as Paul's teachings) where we are told to "Watch for His Coming?"
This is too small a space to discuss Romans 11, but I would be delighted if you would join the forum and explain why you think it is relevent.
You say that "we are told to Watch for His Coming?" That's not exactly correct. The Bible records the words of Christ that He spoke to His first century disciples. He told them to watch, because He was coming soon, in the first cerntury, just like He said. We must read the Bible carefully or we can easily get confused.
I'm writing you personally because I respect the work you have done with the BibleWheel, and have always felt it was Holy Spirit inspired, and that you have been used in a great way. I guess the reason I'm confused now is that I don't see your conclusion fitting with what I see happening in our world.
I understand, and I am very glad you have written. It is interesting that I came to this understanding of prophecy by writing the Bible Wheel book, which required a carefull review of all 66 books of the Bible so I could write about how each triplet linked up on each Spoke. It was then that I noticed the great theme of consummation on Spoke 22, and that Acts aligned with Revelation, and both spoke of this great consummation.
I know it can be confusing because folks act like the futurist teachings are actually in the Bible! But much of what they teach is not really there ... at best, they teach a "possible" interpretation, but even that is stretching it because much of what they teach is just plain made up. Invented and inserted, like the 1937+ year gap in Daniel 9:26, or the rebuilt temple, or the premill rapture, or the doctrine of the earthly millennium reign itself! I just can't believe that people feel so free to abuse the Bible that way.
Do you not think that some prophecies in God's plan can have another fulfillment?
Yes! There certainly are double fulfillments.
Do you not feel that the framework of the BibleWheel will ever grow any more dimensions, as flesh on bones, if you know what I mean?
Yes indeed. I am excited to see how that will happen.
If you are just now in the 21st Century discovering the Wheels within the the Wheels, how could anyone in the former centuries have understood? And since you relate the 22 Hebrew letters with the centuries, does that mean that you believe the 22nd century is the last?
I have good reason to think that the 22 century will correspond to the 22 Spoke ... you can read about my view of time and the Bible Wheel in my article called The Key to the Kingdoms (http://www.biblewheel.com/History/KingdomKey.asp).
OK, I just now read where you believe in a consummation. Could you please tell me what you feel is left to be fulfilled or direct me to a page explaining this in your forum? I for one, would not mind foregoing an antichrist, mark of the beast, trib, etc., but unfortunately that's IS what I see lining up in our world. I would be most interested in studying your ideas of what prophecies you feel are yet to be fulfilled.
I will endeavor to write an article explaining what I believe. I can't think of anything already posted that fits the bill right now. And my fingers are tired after this long post. But as for "The Antichrist" - are you aware that the term "antichrist" is NEVER used in the Bible for a wanna be world dictator? The definition of "antichrist" in the Bible is only for those who reject certain doctrinal issues, namely, 1) they teach Christ was not messiah, or 2) they teach that Christ did not come in the flesh. This exemplifies how bad the pop prophecy teachings really are. They make up stuff that is not in the Bible, and pass it off as if it were.
Well, gotta go ... dinner's getting cold. Thanks for the great questions.
Richard
The first thing to note is my Fundamental Rule of Biblical Hermeneutics which states that every doctrine of Christianity must be supported by at least two or three clear and unambiguous passages of Scripture. This standard quickly cleans out the weeds from our eschatological garden. For example, the doctrine of the earthly millennial reign of Christ could be true, but it is not sufficiently supported by Scripture to be taught as doctrine because Revelation 20 doesn't say He rules on earth, and the OT never says the kingdom will last a thousand years (as well as other problems).
Hello Richard,
A couple of nights ago I was researching the Book of Esther, and came to your site for some more dimension to certain issues, and discovered your forum.
I was shocked to learn that you feel that all prophecy was fulfilled in the first century. I have not read all your forum pages, so I don't want to assume anything, and wanted to write you to see if I understand what you are saying, correctly. Are you saying that there is NO prophecy to be yet fulfilled? And that the endtimes were in Jesus day in the 1st century, and nothing for today?
The Bible clearly states that the "end times" occurred in the first century. A few examples:
Acts 2:16-17 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:
Hebrews 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. In the last example from John, he told his first cerntury audience that the "last time" (literally last hour) was happening right then in the first century, and that they knew it because the antichrists were appearing, just as Christ had warned in the Olivet Discourse that false Christs and false prophets would appear before He came on the clouds of heaven in judgement on Jerusalem.
No second coming?
Most of the verses that you have been reading as referring to a "second coming" were in the context of the Olivet Discourse and Revelation, which we know were fulfilled in the first century. There could be a future second coming, but if so, I am not aware of any clear prophecy of it in the Bible.
Is everything I've believed, as well as my parents, grandparents, and their parents before them, about the consumation of the ages already over 2,000 years ago?
Everything you have believed about eschatology appears to have been colored by a futurist view that completely ignored the first century fulfillment declared by the Bible and confirmed in history. For example, at Pentecost, Peter said that "all the prophets" had spoken of "these days." And Jesus said that the destruction of Jerusalem in the first century were "the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luke 21:22). Everything confirms everything else. This is the plain teaching of the Holy Bible.
I am always surprised when folks implicitly minimize the the great and glorious coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in the first century as if it were "disappointing" to learn that the Lord God Almighty was born a baby, lived a perfect life, died for our sins, and rose victorious unto life eternal - all back in the first century.
If so, do we just follow the Lord, grow old and die, before we can be with Him?
That's how its been done by every Christian person who has ever lived. Why do you have a problem with that?
Was His Second Coming just in judgment for Jerusalem (and to live in our hearts?)
The Bible doesn't call it "His Second Coming" so neither do I.
Is He not coming for His church, His Bride?
He has come for His Bride. We are it! The New Jerusalem is His Church, the Bride, that "came down out of heaven." The Bible is explicit on this point:
Revelation 21:9-10 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,See now what happens when we read what the Bible really teaches? The futurist idea that there will be a literal city called "New Jerusalem" is not in the text at all! The Bible says that the New Jerusalem is the Bride, and we know that the Bride is the Church. Everything ties together with simplicity, clarity, and perfection.
What about Armageddon? When was that?
The Book of Revelation describes the destruction of apostate Jerusalem (the Harlot called Mystery Babylon) by the Roman beast. Armageddon represents the final war in which over a million Jews were slaughtered, much like what Jesus warned. Though there are many symbols in Revelation that folks can dispute and discuss, there proof of the overall meaning of the book comes from its profound integration with Daniel and the Olivet Discourse. Four example, immediately before the discourse Christ said that all the blood of the martyrs would be required of the first century Jews, and when Babylon is judged in Revelation, she "And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth" (Revelation 18:24). Again, the all the pieces fit together with great precision. There is nothing like this high degree of integrity found in the futurist writings.
What was the mark of the beast?
We don't have space here to discuss all the possible intepretations. But I can certainly tell you what it is not. It is not a bar code. It is not your social secutity number. It is not a biochip implant.
When was Damascus destroyed? Isa 17:1 says that Damascus is taken away from being a city, and shall be a ruinous heap. When He destroyed Sodom, Gomorrah and Babylon they didn't come back, although there are plans to re-build Babylon--time will tell. But, Damascus is the oldest inhabited city, and still is in existence.
Isaiah 17 does not say that Damascus would be ruined forever. It simply says it would be ruined. His prophecy was fullfilled in 735 BC by Tiglath-Pileser III. This is common knowledge. Here's a typical statement of the history of Damascus (http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/damascus.htm) that you can find from many sources:
Damascus was captured and destroyed by the Assyrians under Tiglath-Pileser. The inhabitants were carried captive into Assyria, just like the northern kingdom of Israel (2 Kings 16:7-9). This fall was a fulfillment of prophecy (Isaiah 17:1, Amos 1:4-5, Jeremiah 49:24)
Do you see the problem? Pop prophecy teachers just rip these prophecies out of context and proclaim they were not fulfilled. This is why there is so much confusion in the field of eschatology.
Being on the FiveDoves, I know that you know where I'm coming from. I see the rise of a great evil in Islam; just as though it was the fourth reich. I see the Islamic countries in Eze 38 and Psa 83 coming to the forefront wanting to wipe Israel out from being a nation.
Let me speak frankly. I believe you are reading things into the Bible that are not really there. Folks have interpreted those verses for many years with no reference to Islam - until late in the 20th century after the fall of the USSR, and especially now after 9/11. And this is how "prophecy" always goes. Folks read the newspapers and try to find the headlines in the ancient prophecies. And of course, you can always find a link or two ... and then the headlines change again, and so do the interpretations of the futurist prophecies. I don't believe any of it! Like datesetters, they have always been wrong.
And no the USSR doesn't exist anymore, but Russia sure does, and is gaining strength as a world power feeding arms to the Islamic states, including nukes that could end our civilization.
That's all speculation without any real links to anything in the Bible.
And then there is the New World Order and the verichip tracking they intend to force on us May of '08.
How many false predictions have you believed in the past? When May 08 comes and goes and there is no "New World Order" and no "verichip tracking" will you think to youself "I was wrong again! Why do I believe these stories anyway?" I pray you will, so you will be free from these unbiblical end time distractions. They do not serve God at all. People have been talking about stuff like this for decades and they are always wrong. And things that are wrong are not true, and we worship the Truth, do we not? So let us abandon falsehood and seek the full light of God's Truth in Jesus Christ our Lord.
I have also noticed that even secular people are talking about end-time issues, feeling something BIG is about to happen.
Yes, I've noticed that too. "Global warming" is just another "end times scenario" for unbelievers.
I see the church today divided with dozens of different and conflicting doctrines.
When hasn't it been like that?
I see the Jews fervently praying at the Wall during Annapolis crying out to God in the only way they understand. Do you not see this as a possibility that God plans to do another great work, as in Zec 12?
Zechariah 12 was fulfilled in the first century. John said so explicitly:
John 19:36-37 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. 37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced. [Zech 12:10]And the verse that follows it speaks of the destruction of Jerusalem in the first century.
The rabbis (Pharisees) have greatly deceived the Jewish people with the oral law IMHO, what about Romans 11:11-12, v 25-26, 28 or Isa 40:31? Plus all the scriptures (post-Pentecost, as well as Paul's teachings) where we are told to "Watch for His Coming?"
This is too small a space to discuss Romans 11, but I would be delighted if you would join the forum and explain why you think it is relevent.
You say that "we are told to Watch for His Coming?" That's not exactly correct. The Bible records the words of Christ that He spoke to His first century disciples. He told them to watch, because He was coming soon, in the first cerntury, just like He said. We must read the Bible carefully or we can easily get confused.
I'm writing you personally because I respect the work you have done with the BibleWheel, and have always felt it was Holy Spirit inspired, and that you have been used in a great way. I guess the reason I'm confused now is that I don't see your conclusion fitting with what I see happening in our world.
I understand, and I am very glad you have written. It is interesting that I came to this understanding of prophecy by writing the Bible Wheel book, which required a carefull review of all 66 books of the Bible so I could write about how each triplet linked up on each Spoke. It was then that I noticed the great theme of consummation on Spoke 22, and that Acts aligned with Revelation, and both spoke of this great consummation.
I know it can be confusing because folks act like the futurist teachings are actually in the Bible! But much of what they teach is not really there ... at best, they teach a "possible" interpretation, but even that is stretching it because much of what they teach is just plain made up. Invented and inserted, like the 1937+ year gap in Daniel 9:26, or the rebuilt temple, or the premill rapture, or the doctrine of the earthly millennium reign itself! I just can't believe that people feel so free to abuse the Bible that way.
Do you not think that some prophecies in God's plan can have another fulfillment?
Yes! There certainly are double fulfillments.
Do you not feel that the framework of the BibleWheel will ever grow any more dimensions, as flesh on bones, if you know what I mean?
Yes indeed. I am excited to see how that will happen.
If you are just now in the 21st Century discovering the Wheels within the the Wheels, how could anyone in the former centuries have understood? And since you relate the 22 Hebrew letters with the centuries, does that mean that you believe the 22nd century is the last?
I have good reason to think that the 22 century will correspond to the 22 Spoke ... you can read about my view of time and the Bible Wheel in my article called The Key to the Kingdoms (http://www.biblewheel.com/History/KingdomKey.asp).
OK, I just now read where you believe in a consummation. Could you please tell me what you feel is left to be fulfilled or direct me to a page explaining this in your forum? I for one, would not mind foregoing an antichrist, mark of the beast, trib, etc., but unfortunately that's IS what I see lining up in our world. I would be most interested in studying your ideas of what prophecies you feel are yet to be fulfilled.
I will endeavor to write an article explaining what I believe. I can't think of anything already posted that fits the bill right now. And my fingers are tired after this long post. But as for "The Antichrist" - are you aware that the term "antichrist" is NEVER used in the Bible for a wanna be world dictator? The definition of "antichrist" in the Bible is only for those who reject certain doctrinal issues, namely, 1) they teach Christ was not messiah, or 2) they teach that Christ did not come in the flesh. This exemplifies how bad the pop prophecy teachings really are. They make up stuff that is not in the Bible, and pass it off as if it were.
Well, gotta go ... dinner's getting cold. Thanks for the great questions.
Richard