Bread for the Head

[duxrow]

:talk008:What kind of Bread? Gen47:15 "And when money failed in the land of Egypt, and in the land of Canaan, all the Egyptians came unto Joseph, and said, Give us bread: for why should we die in thy presence? for the money faileth".

Jesus is the True and Living Bread, as everyone knows who has read John chapter six. He's comparable with the Manna of the Old Covenant; right?
"For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread" 1Cor10:17. (fig. of speech: synecdoche).

Not your usual bakery bread, for sure. The OT speaks of the "Bread of Tears", Ps80:5, and "Bread of Sorrow", Ps127:2 -- clearly a kind of poetic speech and maybe not the kind of bread you were thinking of -- right?

In Egypt they were desperate for bread after the 7 yrs. of famine began, and Joseph "gathered corn as the sand of the sea", Gen41:49 -- we could call that the "Cornbread Period", because Joseph's brothers were carrying their 'corn-money' in their sacks..

Psalm 78:24 "And had rained down manna upon them to eat, and had given them of the corn of heaven".

After Moses arrived and led them out of Egypt, they survived on Manna (means: "what is it?"), and were led by the pillar of fire and pillar of smoke. I call it the "Wonderbread Period" because they wondered where they were going, and where the pillars were leading them..
Finally Jesus arrived saying he was the True Manna, and Paul writes about the Body of Christ being "one-bread", 1Cor10:17 -- but what kind? Is that important?

Well, if we're going to RISE and meet him in the air, we'd better be leavened with the hidden leaven, Mt13:33, -- This third kind of bread must be Raisin Bread! "Christ in us, the hope of glory", Col 1-27 -- Don't plan on rising w/o this leaven! GLORY!

If you prefer your bread buttered, you begin by getting "the milk of the WORD", and churning it (mulling it over in your mind) until it becomes that special spiritual butter needed for washing your steps like in Job29:6 KJV - How would you like it sliced?

Could be He'll still do his 'first miracle' and change your water to New-wine! :winking0071:

[duxrow]

:bricks: Mouldy bread 'n dried wineskins..
The Gibeonites were a deceiving group claiming to be from "A Far Country", who brought old bread and old wine (sacraments of Communion), and asking for Covenant. After three days they were found to be liars, Josh9:16 -- like the situation these days when liars pretend to be in Covenant with the Almighty (for fear of Hell), but have no intention of honoring God's Word. :yo:

[Richard Amiel McGough]

:bricks: Mouldy bread 'n dried wineskins..
The Gibeonites were a deceiving group claiming to be from "A Far Country", who brought old bread and old wine (sacraments of Communion), and asking for Covenant. After three days they were found to be liars, Josh9:16 -- like the situation these days when liars pretend to be in Covenant with the Almighty (for fear of Hell), but have no intention of honoring God's Word. :yo:

Good morning Bob, :yo:

I can see why you would find the NT story of Christ's death and resurrection (which brought in the New Covenant) to be foreshadowed in that OT story. It has three elements in common:


A covenant
bread and wine
something was revealed after three days.

But if we are seekers of truth, we must try to discern between chance and design. The three elements are very common in the OT. Bread and wine naturally go together:


Judges 19:19 Yet there is both straw and provender for our asses; and there is bread and wine also for me, and for thy handmaid, and for the young man which is with thy servants: there is no want of any thing.
1 Samuel 10:3 Then shalt thou go on forward from thence, and thou shalt come to the plain of Tabor, and there shall meet thee three men going up to God to Bethel, one carrying three kids, and another carrying three loaves of bread, and another carrying a bottle of wine:
1 Samuel 16:20 And Jesse took an ass laden with bread, and a bottle of wine, and a kid, and sent them by David his son unto Saul.

And the concept of "three days" is very common:

Genesis 40:19 Yet within three days shall Pharaoh lift up thy head from off thee, and shall hang thee on a tree; and the birds shall eat thy flesh from off thee.
Exodus 15:22 So Moses brought Israel from the Red sea, and they went out into the wilderness of Shur; and they went three days in the wilderness, and found no water.
Ezra 8:15 And I gathered them together to the river that runneth to Ahava; and there abode we in tents three days: and I viewed the people, and the priests, and found there none of the sons of Levi.

And of course the concept of a "covenant" is very common in the OT. So, what are the chances of finding these three common ideas together in one context like Joshua 9? It seems pretty likely. They are common "building blocks" used in many stories. So how could we tell if it was supposed to be a foreshadowing or not? I think one point supporting your idea would be if it adds any insight to the Christ story.

[duxrow]

Good morning Bob, :yo:I can see why you would find the NT story of Christ's death and resurrection (which brought in the New Covenant) to be foreshadowed in that OT story. It has three elements in common:

A covenant
bread and wine
something was revealed after three days.

But if we are seekers of truth, we must try to discern between chance and design. The three elements are very common in the OT. Bread and wine naturally go together:


Judges 19:19 Yet there is both straw and provender for our asses; and there is bread and wine also for me, and for thy handmaid, and for the young man which is with thy servants: there is no want of any thing.
1 Samuel 10:3 Then shalt thou go on forward from thence, and thou shalt come to the plain of Tabor, and there shall meet thee three men going up to God to Bethel, one carrying three kids, and another carrying three loaves of bread, and another carrying a bottle of wine:
1 Samuel 16:20 And Jesse took an ass laden with bread, and a bottle of wine, and a kid, and sent them by David his son unto Saul.

And the concept of "three days" is very common:

Genesis 40:19 Yet within three days shall Pharaoh lift up thy head from off thee, and shall hang thee on a tree; and the birds shall eat thy flesh from off thee.
Exodus 15:22 So Moses brought Israel from the Red sea, and they went out into the wilderness of Shur; and they went three days in the wilderness, and found no water.
Ezra 8:15 And I gathered them together to the river that runneth to Ahava; and there abode we in tents three days: and I viewed the people, and the priests, and found there none of the sons of Levi.

And of course the concept of a "covenant" is very common in the OT. So, what are the chances of finding these three common ideas together in one context like Joshua 9? It seems pretty likely. They are common "building blocks" used in many stories. So how could we tell if it was supposed to be a foreshadowing or not? I think one point supporting your idea would be if it adds any insight to the Christ story.
Thanks, Richard,
Yes, I think it argues for the single Ghostwriter theme--not a committee for camel design, as often reckoned, and
Agree about the common concepts: 3 days, communion sacraments, covenant, Far Country, metaphors, final four, etc.
As for insight to NT, the 72 hrs. Jesus was in the sepulchre, and his changing water to wine (as Moses did to blood); plus John6 "Living Bread". :thumb:

[sylvius]

the 72 hrs. Jesus was in the sepulchre

Where it says "72 hours"?

[duxrow]

Matthew 12:40. "3 days and 3 nights" says 72 hrs. to me -- it's a common military expression for week-end liberty. Maybe not
the same in other cultures. :yo:

[sylvius]

Matthew 12:40. "3 days and 3 nights" says 72 hrs. to me -- it's a common military expression for week-end liberty. Maybe not
the same in other cultures. :yo:

No wonder that the fish did vomit him out. Too heavy on the stomach.

[sylvius]

Genesis 1:5 says that he called the light day and the darkness night,
and that when there is evening and there is morning there is one day.

It says nothing about hours.

[duxrow]

:playball:"Are there not 12 hours in a Day?" asked Jesus. So 3 days would be 36 hrs. if Arithmetic is to be believed. You think?
Not denying the 24hr. "day" of Genesis--that's another deal, IMO.:thumb:

[sylvius]

:playball:"Are there not 12 hours in a Day?" asked Jesus. So 3 days would be 36 hrs. if Arithmetic is to be believed. You think?
Not denying the 24hr. "day" of Genesis--that's another deal, IMO.:thumb:

It is when he walks by night that he stumbles, for he has no light.

[duxrow]

It is when he walks by night that he stumbles, for he has no light.
:anim_32:Right on, Sylvy,
There's no need to stumble now that flashlights w batteries have been invented! Ever since Jesus became "the Light of the World", John8, and said "My Father and I are One", John10:30, we're better able to understand why the Light of Day One was different from the lights of Day Four. Amen? :thumb:

[sylvius]

John 11:9 has Jesus talking about "the light of the world"

Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world. But if anyone walks in the night, he stumbles, because the light is not in him.”


Before was written,
John 8:12,

Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.


they correspond to eachother, i didn't notice before!

And also of course to John 1:4-5,




In it wass life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend


John 11 is about the calling out of the grave of Lazarus, which is kind of resurrection.

There is light in the darkness, which is not the light of the sun.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

John 11:9 has Jesus talking about "the light of the world"
Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world. But if anyone walks in the night, he stumbles, because the light is not in him.”


Before was written,
John 8:12,

Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.


they correspond to eachother, i didn't notice before!

And also of course to John 1:4-5,


In it wass life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend



John 11 is about the calling out of the grave of Lazarus, which is kind of resurrection.

There is light in the darkness, which is not the light of the sun.
Good insights sylvius.

I found it quite fascinating that the word "sun" is missing from John's Gospel, though he spoke frequently of the "light of the world." Here is the distribution in the Gospels and Acts from my Spoke 21 article Where is the Sun? (http://biblewheel.com/Wheel/Spokes/Shin_WhereSun.php):

http://biblewheel.com/Wheel/Spokes/Sun_NTHistory.gif

I found this particularly intriguing because the words "sun" in Hebrew is shemesh, a Shin KeyWord, and John is found on Spoke 21, corresponding to the 21st letter Shin. Furthermore, the word "shemesh" occurs with the greatest frequency in Ecclesiastes, the 21st book of the Bible, the first book on Spoke 21. I discuss this in my article Under the Sun (http://biblewheel.com/Wheel/Spokes/Shin_Sun.php), a key phrase in Ecclesiastes:

http://biblewheel.com/images/sun1_linear.gif

Of course, Ecclesiastes is all about life "under the sun" - the natural "light of the world" which is why it is so pessimistic, whereas John is all about life under the spiritual "light of the world." Here's how I explained the relation between Ecclesiastes and John, the first and second books on Spoke 21, and their relation to the meaning of the 21st letter Shin in my article Where is the Sun? (http://biblewheel.com/Wheel/Spokes/Shin_WhereSun.php):
God designed Ecclesiastes as the converse of John's Gospel to complete its message by presenting the polar opposite of its central thesis. Furthermore, He designed John's Gospel to make this point abundantly clear. The graph shows the distribution of "sun" in the Five New Testament History Books. It appears in every Book except John! This is the inverse of Ecclesiastes, where the frequency of "sun" is maximized (http://biblewheel.com/Wheel/Spokes/Shin_Sun.php) above that of every other Book in the Bible. But it is not as if John omits the idea of the sun. On the contrary, he presents it using very precise language that makes the connection between Ecclesiastes, John, and the doctrine of Christ as the true Light of the World impossible to miss! In the passage below, Christ referred to the sun indirectly, using a specific phrase – the light of this world – that points to Him in contrast as the true spiritual Light of the World, the central thesis of John's Gospel:


Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Even though I'm not a Christian anymore, these ideas still make a lot of sense.

[sylvius]

Genesis 22:4,
On the third day, Abraham lifted up his eyes and saw the place from afar.

It is said that only Abraham saw it while the others did not.

Which is alluded to by the word "koh" in the nexte verse:

And Abraham said to his young men, "Stay here with the donkey, and I and the lad will go yonder, and we will prostrate ourselves and return to you."

וַאֲנִי וְהַנַּעַר נֵלְכָה עַד כֹּה "v'ani v'hanaar neilchah ad koh"

The gematria of "koh" being 25, a number that is said to allude to the light of the first day, ssince the gematria of "y'hi" is 25 and "or"(light) is the 25th word from the beginning.

It being the light that Adam lost after eating the forbiden fruit.

And that shoudl be why God called him "ayekkah",אַ יֶּכָּה, "where are you ?" (Genesis 3:9), to be read as "ei koh" = "where is there?"

Gematria of "ayekkah" being 11+25 = 36

36 gematria of "lo",
Genesis 32:32,

And the sun rose for him when he passed Penuel

וַיִּזְרַח לוֹ הַשֶּׁמֶשׁ, "vayizrach lo hashemesh"

Rashi:

And the sun rose for him-to heal his limp, as it is said: (Mal. 3:20): “the sun of mercy, with healing in its wings”

"limp" said to be kind of eufemism, the angel said to have touched his private parts.

v. 26,
he touched the hollow of his hip, כַּף יֶרֶךְ, "kaf yerech".

[duxrow]

:new: Walking with 'limp' something we see a lot of, these days... hah!

Enoch and Noah "walked with God"; ..Isaiah "walked naked and barefoot", and Jacob's WALK would surely have been changed after he wrestled the 'angel'(epiphany or precept) and had his thighbone 'touched'. But, of course those were the times before the scripture was completed, and Isaiah wouldn't have known to put on the spiritual armor or shoes of the preparation of the gospel. Eph6:17.

The "walk", according to scripture, is a kind of adhesive for all the books of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation.

walk in INTEGRITY - Ps26:11 - walk UPRIGHTLY - Ps84:11 - walk in TRUTH - Ps86:11 - walk in LIGHT - Isa2:5 - walk in THE WAY - Isa30:21 - walk after the SPIRIT - Rom8:4 - walk HONESTLY - Rom13:13 - walk by FAITH - 2Cor5:7 - walk in the SPIRIT - Gal 5:25 - walk WORTHY - Eph4:1 - walk in LOVE - Eph5:2 - walk in WISDOM - Col 4:5 - walk in the LIGHT - 1Jn1:7 - walk in WHITE - Rev3:4

The ultimate walk, of course, is when Jesus walked on water! Having your feet washed by Jesus, and Walking on the water of The Word is what we all need to do! :yo:

[sylvius]

:new: Walking with 'limp' something we see a lot of, these days... hah!

Enoch and Noah "walked with God"; ..Isaiah "walked naked and barefoot", and Jacob's WALK would surely have been changed after he wrestled the 'angel'(epiphany or precept) and had his thighbone 'touched'. But, of course those were the times before the scripture was completed, and Isaiah wouldn't have known to put on the spiritual armor or shoes of the preparation of the gospel. Eph6:17.

The "walk", according to scripture, is a kind of adhesive for all the books of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation.

walk in INTEGRITY - Ps26:11 - walk UPRIGHTLY - Ps84:11 - walk in TRUTH - Ps86:11 - walk in LIGHT - Isa2:5 - walk in THE WAY - Isa30:21 - walk after the SPIRIT - Rom8:4 - walk HONESTLY - Rom13:13 - walk by FAITH - 2Cor5:7 - walk in the SPIRIT - Gal 5:25 - walk WORTHY - Eph4:1 - walk in LOVE - Eph5:2 - walk in WISDOM - Col 4:5 - walk in the LIGHT - 1Jn1:7 - walk in WHITE - Rev3:4

The ultimate walk, of course, is when Jesus walked on water! Having your feet washed by Jesus, and Walking on the water of The Word is what we all need to do! :yo:

Noach's ark already walked on water:

Genesis 7:18,
And the waters became powerful, and they increased very much upon the earth, and the ark walked upon the waters.

[duxrow]

That's interesting, Sylvy -- tho the KJV doesn't say 'walked'.. Anyway, here's a poem about 'walk' that I wrote several years ago.
:talk005:
A DIFFERENT WALK! by Bob Smith

"Go take a walk" is what we say,
to those we wish would go away..
We'd recommend a longer stroll
if they'd just keep on going..
And if the pier's a short one,
They could very soon be flowing!

The Scripture walk that's talked
about from Enoch to the end,
Means following His commandments
and making Him your friend.
Walking with your hand in His
by learning all he's written,
Then standing up and going forth
but never, ever, sittin'!

Jacob's Walk was different after
wrestling The Man..
It takes that kind of wrestling
if you want to understand.
You don't know what Trouble is
until your walk gets sleazy.
Jacob's Trouble was travailing
cause birthing isn't easy..

We can walk like Jacob walked,
Raising the New Name high.. (Israel)
We can walk like Enoch walked,
So then we'll never die!

Isaiah did it barefoot, but we
must wear the shoes..
The learning of The Word is
something not to be refused!

Peter's walk sure pleased the Lord..
(He didn't just fall overboard..)
Walk in wisdom and in the light
That's the way to "Walk in White"

There's more to this than meets
the eye, but in case you're walking South,
The Scripture teaches this besides:
Don't walk with foot in mouth!


After Jacob had wrestled the angel, Gen32, scripture tells us his thigh was 'touched', and it's likely that his "walk" was altered at that time. If you're going to talk-the-talk, it's important to also walk-the-walk. (Obedience to The Word).

Yes, I believe Jesus really walked on water, and wouldn't surprise me if he didn't even get his feet wet! :winking0071:

[sylvius]

That's interesting, Sylvy -- tho the KJV doesn't say 'walked'.. Anyway, here's a poem about 'walk' that I wrote several years ago.
.

Yes, I believe Jesus really walked on water, and wouldn't surprise me if he didn't even get his feet wet! :winking0071:

The word for ark "teivah" also can mean "word"

http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/please-tell-me-what-the-rebbe-said-2/02.htm



In this week's parshah, we read about the Flood and the teivah. The Hebrew word teivah has two meanings. It means "ark," like the ark which HaShem commanded Noach to build, and it also means "word," like the words in our siddur and chumash.

so


Genesis 7:18,
And the waters became powerful, and they increased very much upon the earth, and the word walked upon the waters.

But it got wet feet, since it was submerged in the waters with 11 cubits; 19 cubits above water and 11 cubits under water.

Rashi on Genesis 8:4,

on the seventeenth day: From here you learn that the ark was submerged in the water eleven cubits, for it is written: (verse 5) “ In the tenth [month], on the first of the month, the mountain peaks appeared.” That is [the month of] Av, which is the tenth month counting from Marcheshvan, when the rains fell, and they were fifteen cubits higher than the mountains. They diminished from the first of Sivan until the first of Av fifteen cubits in sixty days, at the rate of a cubit in four days. The result is that on the sixteenth of Sivan they had diminished only four cubits, and the ark came to rest on the next day. You learn [from here] that it was submerged eleven cubits in the waters [which were] above the mountain peaks.

[duxrow]

The word for ark "teivah" also can mean "word"

http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/please-tell-me-what-the-rebbe-said-2/02.htm


so


Genesis 7:18,
And the waters became powerful, and they increased very much upon the earth, and the word walked upon the waters.

But it got wet feet, since it was submerged in the waters with 11 cubits; 19 cubits above water and 11 cubits under water.

Rashi on Genesis 8:4,:applause:
I like it, Sylvy -- very interesting. Was only kidding about the "feet wet" comment -- reminds me of the modern expression meaning to "get with it", whatever project it is, to begin if you ever expect to be proficient. (Which obviously you are!) :yo:

[duxrow]

Bread recipes all call for Salt!
:specool:Salt of the Earth ?
Salt is for flavor, it's the Lord's spice of Life,
And during a freeze, it helps melt the strife.
Salt makes you thirsty, so watch what you say..
It makes it more buoyant and lifts up your day.

Salt is for curing, to preserve right perspectives..
When used in a cut, it stings forth invectives!
Salt is for healing, or for scouring clean..
And a salty demeanor should never be mean.

Salt softens the water, can be used in a pinch..
And a saline solution makes seeing a cinch.
Salt is a crystal that always rings true,
And changes conduction in a chemical brew.

A sprinkle of salt for the tail of a bird,
or over your shoulder to see fate deferred.
A shaker of Salt, but don't over do it..
A Dead Sea comes forth if you misconstrue it.

A Covenant of Salt, and don't forget pepper,
It's not to be sneezed at: the spiritual leper.
Salted and swaddled, each one in his turn,
With passionate fire his candle to burn.

Oceans of hydrogen, stuff that goes "boom",
Heavens of oxygen for the flaming of doom..
Combustible matter, one spark will ignite,
Just as soon as the Salt's gone, they'll all see the Light!



"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man". Colossians 4:6

You don't imagine God wants a whole plateful of salt, do you? NO, that probably wouldn't be appetizing..
–don’t you discard food that’s too salty? He'd prefer a colorful dish with lots of variety; seeing He's such a diverse God.. You think? :winking0071:

[duxrow]

Three (3) kinds of Bread: In the Genesis Period it was CORNBREAD the brothers were looking for with their corn-money and because "Joseph gathered corn as the sand of the sea", Gen41:49.

In the wilderness it was WONDERBREAD when they wondered where the pillars were leading them and why the Manna came down doubled on the 6th day.

"For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. 1Cor10:17.

"There are differences of administrations, but the same Lord and there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all". 1Cor12:5,6

Sifting used in Amos 9:9 -- "For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth".

The SIFTED FLOUR won't become a 'LUMP' until after the spiritual pouring-out, and those New Creatures will need the New Leaven in order to Rise and meet the LORD in the air! Kitty litter a crude example of how 'lumps' are distinguished from the dry stuff. hah! :thumb: http://www.cswnet.com/~duxrow/webdoc4.htm

1214

[duxrow]

How would you like it sliced? Toasted?

1215

[duxrow]

Jesus told Peter that Satan desired to "sift him as wheat". Dry flour might be blown around by "every wind of doctrine", Eph4:14, but once you pour on the Holy Spirit you become a new lump. Lk22:31

"Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump.." 1Cor5:7. In other words, get rid of the sin and hypocrisy and be baptized in the Holy Spirit, and then begin eating the true bread of life. The Bread for the Head that we eat with our ears! :lol:

[David M]

Hello Dux

I missed this thread until now. I like your analogy. I won't get into an argument about whether it is; spirit of the word, or Holy Spirit; baptism with the Holy Spirit, or baptism with water.

Since I started eating home-made bread, the quality, variety, and wholesomeness of the bread has been so much better.

As yet, I am not sure whether the flour going into the bread is GM or not. That is the scary part of what is happening with our food, without knowing the future consequences of what is being done now. It is less worry to me than the next generation with many more years ahead of them having to eat more GM food.

All the best
David

[duxrow]

Not Gold Medal flour, David -- Use your imagination and think flower (homonym) -- just another reason it seems, to me, that the Holy Ghostwriter is funning with us..

SofS2:1 I am the rose of Sharon, and the lily of the valleys. :winking0071: