View Full Version : The Universal Declaration of Human Rights
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, was adopted by the UN General Assembly on 10 December 1948, it is widely recognized that Eleanor Roosevelt was the driving force behind the Declarations adoption. It seems quite ironic that it ultimately took humans - not god - to write a humans rights declaration that gives complete equality of rights to all humans regardless of gender, or race...unlike the Bible which does more to deny people their human rights than to give them human rights.
Article 1.
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
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Article 2.
Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.
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Article 3.
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
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Article 4.
No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.
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Article 5.
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
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Article 6.
Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.
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Article 7.
All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.
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Article 8.
Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.
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Article 9.
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.
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Article 10.
Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.
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Article 11.
(1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.
(2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.
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Article 12.
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.
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Article 13.
(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
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Article 14.
(1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.
(2) This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.
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Article 15.
(1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.
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Article 16.
(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.
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Article 17.
(1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.
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Article 18.
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
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Article 19.
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
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Article 20.
(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.
(2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.
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Article 21.
(1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.
(2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.
(3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.
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Article 22.
Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.
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Article 23.
(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
(3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.
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Article 24.
Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.
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Article 25.
(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
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Article 26.
(1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.
(2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.
(3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.
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Article 27.
(1) Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.
(2) Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.
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Article 28.
Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.
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Article 29.
(1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.
(2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.
(3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.
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Article 30.
Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.
UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS (http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml)
It took humans until 1948 to draft a universal decree giving all people equal human rights! :applause:
The Bible cannot be given any credit for this act of giving equal human rights to women and slaves.
Article 1.
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Article 4.
No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.
Article 16.
(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.
It took humans until 1948 to draft a universal decree giving all people equal human rights! :applause:
The Bible cannot be given any credit for this act of giving equal human rights to women and slaves.
Article 1.
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Article 4.
No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.
Article 16.
(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.
And what have humans achieves so far internationally in regards to equal human rights? It's humanly impossible.....Keep on dreaming. There will still be the rich and the poor, the privilege and the underprivilege, the evil and the good, the happy and the sad, the healthy and the sick etc. See the Beatitudes which explain the inequalities of the world and the humanly impossiblities of achieving these without the help from God:
Matthew 5
4Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
God Bless.:pray:
And what have humans achieves so far internationally in regards to equal human rights? It's humanly impossible.....Keep on dreaming. There will still be the rich and the poor, the privilege and the underprivilege, the evil and the good, the happy and the sad, the healthy and the sick etc.
The point I was making is that the Bible has done NOTHING to promote the equal human rights of women, or condemn slavery as wrong ... in fact it has done the opposite! The Bible promotes discrimination against women, condones and encourages slavery, and imposes marriage on women without giving them a free choice.
If the Bible is the word of god, why did it take till 1948 for humans to figure out that all humans are deserving of equal rights, and make a universal declaration? With the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, people have achieved far more in the area of equality than the Bible has in two thousand years!
The point I was making is that the Bible has done NOTHING to promote the equal human rights of women, or condemn slavery as wrong ... in fact it has done the opposite! The Bible promotes discrimination against women, condones and encourages slavery, and imposes marriage on women without giving them a free choice.
You are making yourself a fool Rose. Everybody knows that there were human rights violations of the males also in the Bible yet you never fight for those rights for men....why? . why? WHY? You are making yourself looks like a damned bias against the males.
is it right that men should be killed and the womenfolks spared? is it right that male children had to go for circumcision but not the females? Is it right that males do the discipline of the children? Is it right males protect and lead the women and children and provides for them? Is it right that only men were allowed to be priests and to observe religious rites? Is it right that men had to pay maintenance fees to the divorced wife? Is it right that male infants requires less days of purification compared to female infants? Is it right that Adam got the blame for the fall of men rather than Eve? Is it right that male slaves did all the hard labor? is it right that only males homosexuals were mentioned in the Bible but not female lesbians? Why it seems males authored the Bible and not females? Why were males made head of the family and entertained guests? Why males authors slapped themselves in their own face cursing men when authoring the Bible? Why the Bible says so much praises for women but little for men such as in the Songs of Solomon? Why must God sacrifice His only Male Son for the sins of the world?
If the Bible is the word of god, why did it take till 1948 for humans to figure out that all humans are deserving of equal rights, and make a universal declaration? With the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, people have achieved far more in the area of equality than the Bible has in two thousand years!
Same as I put it to you, why must it takes millions of years for Evolution God to realize that something must be done for all humans to deserve equal rights with the Universal declaration of Human Rights? Therefore, the Evolution God is False.
God Bless.:pray:
You are making yourself a fool Rose. Everybody knows that there were human rights violations of the males also in the Bible yet you never fight for those rights for men....why? . why? WHY? You are making yourself looks like a damned bias against the males.
It looks like you are the foolish one :lol: I have went over this point so many times with you, yet you still seem as dense as ever!! The Bible is filled with human rights violations, but because it was written by men it is especially biased against women!! I believe all humans should have equal rights regardless of gender, but the male authors of the Bible didn't seem to think so!! :mad:
My fight is to expose the Bible as a work of man, by revealing its extreme bias against women, and its immoral treatment of men, women and children!!
Is it right that men should be killed and the womenfolks spared? is it right that male children had to go for circumcision but not the females? Is it right that males do the discipline of the children? Is it right males protect and lead the women and children and provides for them? Is it right that only men were allowed to be priests and to observe religious rites? Is it right that men had to pay maintenance fees to the divorced wife? Is it right that male infants requires less days of purification compared to female infants? Is it right that Adam got the blame for the fall of men rather than Eve? Is it right that male slaves did all the hard labor? is it right that only males homosexuals were mentioned in the Bible but not female lesbians? Why it seems males authored the Bible and not females? Why were males made head of the family and entertained guests? Why males authors slapped themselves in their own face cursing men when authoring the Bible? Why the Bible says so much praises for women but little for men such as in the Songs of Solomon? Why must God sacrifice His only Male Son for the sins of the world?
Of course it's wrong to kill men and spare the women!! But men are to blame for that, because they want to keep the women for themselves so they can rape them!!
Men are 50% responsible for the creation of children, so of course they should help provide for them and protect them!!
All the rest of the things you mentioned men are responsible for, since they are the ones who wrote the biblical laws ... that is why any religion which bases its doctrines on the laws of the Bible should be avoided!!
Same as I put it to you, why must it takes millions of years for Evolution God to realize that something must be done for all humans to deserve equal rights with the Universal declaration of Human Rights? Therefore, the Evolution God is False.
God Bless.:pray:
What you wrote makes no sense!! :dizzy:
I challenge anyone to give me a reason why the Bible shouldn't be tossed out as an example of a moral code, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights adopted in its place. :thumb:
I challenge anyone to come up with one good reason why the Bible should not be thrown out as what some people consider to be a moral guidebook, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights be adopted in it place.
When it comes to moral issues, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights stands a head and shoulders above the Bible.
I challenge anyone to come up with one good reason why the Bible should not be thrown out as what some people consider to be a moral guidebook, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights be adopted in it place.
When it comes to moral issues, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights stands a head and shoulders above the Bible.
Since Rose do not want to write, I challenge anyone to write a book on fighting for male's rights. If the BIble is to be thrown out, then to be fair all religion is to be thrown out, including the new religion call the Theory of Evolution.
Rose talks so much about freedom of human rights, yet want to ban the freedom of free speech and freedom of religion. Humans have a right to speak and believe whatever one wants to believe. All TRUE human rights fighter will fight for the right to believe in whatever religion or belief as well, Rose don't fit that criteria. Rose is making herself a fool.
Note Article 2, 16, 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
Article 2
Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, RELIGION, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.
Article 16.
(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.
Article 18.
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
As I said before, to achieve total equal human rights is humanly impossible because of multiple variables and obstacles. Keep on Dreaming......Wait Long Long. It can and will only be achieve with the arrival of a much higher intelligent and authoritative power which we call God.
God Bless.:pray:
David M
05-23-2014, 11:51 PM
I challenge anyone to come up with one good reason why the Bible should not be thrown out as what some people consider to be a moral guidebook, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights be adopted in it place.
When it comes to moral issues, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights stands a head and shoulders above the Bible.
Because for all you see is wrong in the Bible, there is much that is right. It is the only Book that explains how we humans got here, and what the purpose to life is.
It is the only Book that has the stamp of divine authority about it and because of that, it is the only Book to reveal the Creator's power by which he offers eternal life in his Kingdom to anyone who is prepared to follow his instruction.
You can deny all that and throw the good away with what you dislike, but that does not change the positive message in the Bible. It does not matter what you think about who created the laws first, the laws in the Bible such as the 10 commandments is the basis behind the basic laws in society today.
If you obey the ten commandments, there is no need for Human Rights. Human Rights judges are ruling according to what they determine what is right in their eyes and is the best for society. Everyone can think they have Human Rights and are being done some wrong. Is it a human right not to be subject to any law? If you do not yield so some law, then you have anarchy and civil unrest. Human Rights leads to unrest, by those who do not have their own rights upheld.
It must be in law to uphold the Human Rights set by the courts. Not everyone will agree to that law. You still have a problem which you cannot solve, and there will always be civil unrest while man is ruling himself and does not have God in his life.
Timmy
05-24-2014, 02:06 AM
I challenge anyone to come up with one good reason why the Bible should not be thrown out as what some people consider to be a moral guidebook, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights be adopted in it place.
When it comes to moral issues, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights stands a head and shoulders above the Bible.
Hi Shoshanah:flowers:
You ask for one good reason and Timmy has considered many...so, out from them, one stands clearer than all others:
The Bible should not be thrown out because the U.D.H.R. says so.
Timmy
Because for all you see is wrong in the Bible, there is much that is right. It is the only Book that explains how we humans got here, and what the purpose to life is.
It is the only Book that has the stamp of divine authority about it and because of that, it is the only Book to reveal the Creator's power by which he offers eternal life in his Kingdom to anyone who is prepared to follow his instruction.
You can deny all that and throw the good away with what you dislike, but that does not change the positive message in the Bible. It does not matter what you think about who created the laws first, the laws in the Bible such as the 10 commandments is the basis behind the basic laws in society today.
Hello David,
I guess I missed this post, but better late then never ... :winking0071:
I have never said that the Bible does not contain things that are good, the problem is the good is mixed up with the bad, which invalidates it as the word of god. We don't need a book written by primitive men to tell us how we got here, science is doing a very good job of that. As far as finding the purpose of life that comes from building meaningful relationships, not from a book.
If you obey the ten commandments, there is no need for Human Rights. Human Rights judges are ruling according to what they determine what is right in their eyes and is the best for society. Everyone can think they have Human Rights and are being done some wrong. Is it a human right not to be subject to any law? If you do not yield so some law, then you have anarchy and civil unrest. Human Rights leads to unrest, by those who do not have their own rights upheld.
It must be in law to uphold the Human Rights set by the courts. Not everyone will agree to that law. You still have a problem which you cannot solve, and there will always be civil unrest while man is ruling himself and does not have God in his life.
I must say I'm a bit surprised at that statement! No need for human rights if we follow the Ten Commandments?? Human rights are what we all share as humans and what the Bible denies women. The Ten Commandments do not address any human rights issues, like the Universal Declaration of Human Rights does, that is why my challenge states the Bible should be thrown out as a moral guidebook and replaced with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Apparently, you do not think that humans are equal and that is why there is no need for a moral code that gives everyone equality. Of course equal human rights would mean that homosexuals would be entitled to equality and could marry, and women would have equal standing with men, which goes directly against the teachings of the Bible. :eek:
Take care,
Rose
Hi Shoshanah:flowers:
You ask for one good reason and Timmy has considered many...so, out from them, one stands clearer than all others:
The Bible should not be thrown out because the U.D.H.R. says so.
Timmy
Hello Timmy :yo:
For some reason I missed both yours and Davids posts ... oh well. :p
I'm not quite sure I understand your reason for why the Bible should not be thrown out as a moral guide book?? So, I will just make a couple comments on the issue of human rights in response to your post.
Article 1 of the U.D.H.R. states that all humans are born free and equal, with regards to dignity and rights ... this is something the Bible does not allow. In order to adhere to biblical teaching, one must necessarily deny the fact that all humans are born with equal rights. A person cannot claim to believe in both the Bible and the U.D.H.R. on the issue of human rights, because they contradict each other.
So, which choice do you make on the issue of human rights: the Bible, or the U.D.H.R.??
As you can tell, human rights is an issue that I care very much about. I look around me, and back through history and see the untold suffering that has come from humans mistreating each other. Some of the mistreatment has come from religion, and some from the human desire for dominance and greed. Making laws that decree equality is one huge step in the right direction, something that the Bible has failed miserably at. If fallible humans could come up with a U.D.H.R. there is no reason the Biblegod could not have had a statement of human rights written into the Bible. That is one of the reasons why it seems obvious that the Bible was written by primitive men, who did not think all human were deserving of equal rights.
Looking forward to your response, :)
Rose
David M
06-17-2014, 01:23 PM
Hello Rose
Hello David,
I guess I missed this post, but better late then never ... :winking0071:
I have never said that the Bible does not contain things that are good, the problem is the good is mixed up with the bad, which invalidates it as the word of god. We don't need a book written by primitive men to tell us how we got here, science is doing a very good job of that. As far as finding the purpose of life that comes from building meaningful relationships, not from a book. Until science can explain how things came about from the beginning, science does not give us the answers. We only have two choices as I can see. Either God who has declared himself to be sole Creator is the origin of the universe and all life, or the scientific answer which has only the Big Bang as a theory which scientists are not in agreement, so science does not have a definitive answer to how the universe came about and life. How the first simplest of cells came about is far from being explained by science. It is wishful thinking on your part to think that science will find the answers.
I must say I'm a bit surprised at that statement! No need for human rights if we follow the Ten Commandments?? Human rights are what we all share as humans and what the Bible denies women. The Ten Commandments do not address any human rights issues, like the Universal Declaration of Human Rights does, that is why my challenge states the Bible should be thrown out as a moral guidebook and replaced with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The Ten Commandments does not cover every situation, but keeping the second and great commandment would cover much of what human rights covers.
Apparently, you do not think that humans are equal and that is why there is no need for a moral code that gives everyone equality. Of course equal human rights would mean that homosexuals would be entitled to equality and could marry, and women would have equal standing with men, which goes directly against the teachings of the Bible. :eek:Keeping the Ten Commandments is an ideal which does not happen in practice. Where one person commits a crime against another person, we enter the realm of punishment for the crime. This is once again a subject we cannot agree with.
We are back to the two opposing positions of humanism vs Theism. Homosexuality is an abomination to God. Homosexuality, is probably the cause of many diseases. If that is the case, then homosexuality has a lot to answer for. Humanism will reap its rewards for what humanists choose to do which is contrary to what God knows best which is why we have the basic laws. Of course there are many situations where a judgement has to be made and so we have different types of courts where judgements are made.
You can argue that all people have human rights, but people who abuse other people and ignore their human rights ought by rights forfeit their human rights when it comest to punishment for certain crimes. In some ways humanst law is soft and the criminals are let off lightly. The law varies from one country to another and there is a wide variation of punishments administered for crimes. You might like to begin a thread dealing with a universal law which all countries should apply. You can then include Human Rights universally.
All the best
David
Hello Rose
Until science can explain how things came about from the beginning, science does not give us the answers. We only have two choices as I can see. Either God who has declared himself to be sole Creator is the origin of the universe and all life, or the scientific answer which has only the Big Bang as a theory which scientists are not in agreement, so science does not have a definitive answer to how the universe came about and life. How the first simplest of cells came about is far from being explained by science. It is wishful thinking on your part to think that science will find the answers.
Hi David, :yo:
Science probably will never have all the answers, but it still can answer a lot more questions than religion can. All religion can say is "God did it", which is really no answer at all, because you are left with the question of where did god come from? The answers that science gives helps us to gain knowledge and understanding of how the universe works, so that we can find cures for diseases, and all the other discoveries that have helped to make the world a better place to live.
The Ten Commandments does not cover every situation, but keeping the second and great commandment would cover much of what human rights covers.
Keeping the Ten Commandments is an ideal which does not happen in practice. Where one person commits a crime against another person, we enter the realm of punishment for the crime. This is once again a subject we cannot agree with.
The only human rights that the Ten Commandments even addresses are murder and theft, the rest of them really have nothing to do with guaranteeing equal human rights. Even "loving thy neighbor" is not as good as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, because we all know that the way neighbor was interpreted in the Old Testament applied only to those of the Hebrew race and even then women weren't always included.
The foundation of morality must begin with equal human rights, which is something that is all but missing from the Bible. Equal human rights leaves no ambiguity about whether something is moral or not, because it applies across the board to everyone who is human.
We are back to the two opposing positions of humanism vs Theism. Homosexuality is an abomination to God. Homosexuality, is probably the cause of many diseases. If that is the case, then homosexuality has a lot to answer for. Humanism will reap its rewards for what humanists choose to do which is contrary to what God knows best which is why we have the basic laws. Of course there are many situations where a judgement has to be made and so we have different types of courts where judgements are made.
Because your Biblegod declares homosexuality to be wrong, you will never be able to support equal human rights, the same goes for the equal rights of women, since the Bible declares that men should rule over women.
I love the U.D.H.R. because is states so clearly and unambiguously that ALL PEOPLE ARE BORN FREE AND EQUAL ... something the Bible does not state!
You can argue that all people have human rights, but people who abuse other people and ignore their human rights ought by rights forfeit their human rights when it comest to punishment for certain crimes. In some ways humanst law is soft and the criminals are let off lightly. The law varies from one country to another and there is a wide variation of punishments administered for crimes. You might like to begin a thread dealing with a universal law which all countries should apply. You can then include Human Rights universally.
All the best
David
Of course people who violate the human rights of others, must forfeit some of their own human rights as punishment. I have no problem with punishing those who commit crimes, but the punishment must fit the crime ... unlike the Biblegod who thinks that picking up sticks on the Sabbath, or not being a virgin (women only) on your wedding night is worthy of death!
The U.D.H.R. is a law drawn up in 1948 by the United Nations ... it is called universal because it applies to all countries.
Take care,
Rose
David M
06-18-2014, 12:18 AM
Hello Rose
Hi David, :yo:
Science probably will never have all the answers, but it still can answer a lot more questions than religion can. All religion can say is "God did it", which is really no answer at all, because you are left with the question of where did god come from? The answers that science gives helps us to gain knowledge and understanding of how the universe works, so that we can find cures for diseases, and all the other discoveries that have helped to make the world a better place to live.The answer; "God did it" is an absolute answer and is one stage back from theory science puts forward. Where does matter come from is explained by the God-factor. Where does matter come from has no explanation in science. If you say; "matter always existed", then it is equally permissible to say that God has always existed. God is the explanation for matter, even though scientifically, there is no scientific proof for showing God exists.
As for curing diseases, of course you do not believe in miracles and you cannot belief in the power that created all the matter in this universe, therefore you do not accept that God can cure diseases far better than humans can. The problem is; there is no way of testing God in the way we would like to do.
Consider the serpent that was raised up on the pole. When someone was bitten and they would have died, they had to have faith and go and look upon the serpent to be healed and not die. You have no faith now, therefore you are excluded from that source of cure if such a source were made available. Alas, God is not going to put up a source like that by which what I say can be proven. There is the example of Naaman who had to wash seven times in the river Jordan before he was made clean from leprosy. Once Naaman did that which was required (and we note that faith in this instance was not called for), the cure was instant. Science will never lead to cures comparable to the way God can cure.
The only human rights that the Ten Commandments even addresses are murder and theft, the rest of them really have nothing to do with guaranteeing equal human rights. Even "loving thy neighbor" is not as good as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, because we all know that the way neighbor was interpreted in the Old Testament applied only to those of the Hebrew race and even then women weren't always included.I think you will find that Gentiles were to be treated with just as much respect as the Hebrews were to show amongst themselves. There is the example of the Good Samaritan in which Jesus asked; Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? You know the answer and this story involves doing good to a Samaritan (a Gentile).
The foundation of morality must begin with equal human rights, which is something that is all but missing from the Bible. Equal human rights leaves no ambiguity about whether something is moral or not, because it applies across the board to everyone who is human. I doubt the U.D.H.R. has everything buttoned up and that is why cases are taken to the court of human rights and a ruling obtained which then becomes enshrined in the law of human rights. The second Great Commandment ought to be universal and applied correctly. There is always the exception to any rule. Until everyone conforms, we have to have rules. Once everyone conforms, then there does not have to be a rule. The second Great Commandment cannot apply to a sadomasochist.
Because your Biblegod declares homosexuality to be wrong, you will never be able to support equal human rights, the same goes for the equal rights of women, since the Bible declares that men should rule over women.Exactly so. Humanism and Theism are not totally compatible. In fact, the U.D.H.R.is imposing restrictions on people who think they should have the freedom to do whatever they want to do. Maybe homosexuals should separate themselves completely from the heterosexual society by going to live in a separate country all to themselves. Then whatever diseases that arise, they keep the diseases amongst themselves.
I love the U.D.H.R. because is states so clearly and unambiguously that ALL PEOPLE ARE BORN FREE AND EQUAL ... something the Bible does not state!You are not as free as you think. You are a bondslave to sin and death. Under humanist law you are doomed to eternal death. The law of God actually gives you a way out whereby you are freed from that. (Rom 8:2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.. In the humanist world, you are subject to eternal death and you can never be free from that.
Of course people who violate the human rights of others, must forfeit some of their own human rights as punishment. I have no problem with punishing those who commit crimes, but the punishment must fit the crime ... unlike the Biblegod who thinks that picking up sticks on the Sabbath, or not being a virgin (women only) on your wedding night is worthy of death!
The U.D.H.R. is a law drawn up in 1948 by the United Nations ... it is called universal because it applies to all countries.You say; "the punishment must fit the crime" but you are against an "eye for an eye" principle preferring to let murderers (even where there is no doubt) off the death penalty. Instead, thousands of dollars are wasted by keeping these reprobates in prison until they die or let out of prison after serving a "life sentence" (hardly that), which would be money better spent helping the poor and needy.
Incidentally, there is more behind those two crimes you cite from the Bible. "Picking up sticks", or not being a virgin is not the real issue. The issue, in the case of the sticks. is breaking the law, which was prescribed for the Sabbath. Breaking the law applying to the Sabbath, is sin, which brings the consequence of eternal death. Breaking laws for which the punishment is death, should serve as a reminder to ensure those laws are kept to. In the case of the non-virgin on her wedding night, it is the deceit that is the sin and is so deceitful as to warrant death. When marriage should be for life, a man who wants to marry a virgin, does not want to be married to a woman defiled by another man for the rest of his life. The death of the deceitful woman is the only way the man is released from the marriage in order to marry again and marry a virgin. Otherwise, the man commits adultery, if he marries again while his first wife remains alive. The deceitful wife has also compromised the man who though free to marry again, is not a virgin himself and might not be acceptable to another woman who is a virgin. You see the mess and complication which arises from the initial deceit.
All the best
David
Hi David, :yo:
Science probably will never have all the answers, but it still can answer a lot more questions than religion can. All religion can say is "God did it", which is really no answer at all, because you are left with the question of where did god come from? The answers that science gives helps us to gain knowledge and understanding of how the universe works, so that we can find cures for diseases, and all the other discoveries that have helped to make the world a better place to live.
Science don't have answers to many questions and even if they have, there are errors. If the scientific foundation is wrong, every theory based on that foundation will be wrong; a good example is the theory of Phlogiston. Yes, God did it, it is as simple as that; no need to go through all the convoluted theories how the earth and humans and life came about. If I said Ford created cars, I mean simply the truth; no need to go through convoluted theories of how metals came about and somehow merged with other metals and plastics naturally through many millions of years of evolution and through the survival of the fittest and natural selection gradually came the cars that we see today.
The only human rights that the Ten Commandments even addresses are murder and theft, the rest of them really have nothing to do with guaranteeing equal human rights. Even "loving thy neighbor" is not as good as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, because we all know that the way neighbor was interpreted in the Old Testament applied only to those of the Hebrew race and even then women weren't always included.
Look carefully and you can see that all the UDHR are covered under the 2 great Commandments of Love God with all Your heart, soul and might and Love the neighbor as thyself. Love God with all your heart soul and might covers all the human rights related to religion and day of rest and Love thy neighbor as yourself relates to all the other articles of the UDHR.
The foundation of morality must begin with equal human rights, which is something that is all but missing from the Bible. Equal human rights leaves no ambiguity about whether something is moral or not, because it applies across the board to everyone who is human.
The foundation of human rights dose not begin with equal human rights alone but other considerations must be included such as basic needs before you can even go to the need for equal human rights, if not everything will be futile. If basic needs such as food, shelter, safety, security are not met, will people be interested to strive for equal human rights? Obviously No. My definition of human rights is different from yours, my definition is every gender works together using their natural abilities to reach for common good goals. This is analogous to every employee in the company working as a team using their own job knowledge and expertise to achieve the company's goals which will ultimately benefit everybody in the company. Know the meaning, "Thou shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes out from the mouth of God". It simply means that one shall live by basic needs and rights alone but also by the commandments and knowledge of God.
Not everybody on earth will agree with equal human rights for everybody and several countries have yet to sign the UDHR. Are the 20% rich willing to share their wealth with the 80% poor? Are the well-fed willing to share their food with the underfed? And those living in bungalows willing to share their houses with the poor who do not have a roof above their heads? Are the criminals and evil men willing to repent of their ways and live righteous lives? Will everyone willing to live in peace without need for wars and killings? If the answer is No, then we are not ready for equal human rights. Therefore, stop wasting your time fighting for equal human rights until all these have been resolved; better to fight for human rights that are more achievable for the time being such as more protections for women. This is in fact the duty of men to protect women but some evil men abuse that rule into bullying women.
For UDHR to be successful it must be signed by every nation on earth and it must be strictly complied. Several nations have yet to signed and some signed but with reservations or exceptions on some of the UDHR rules. This shows that there are flaws, disagreements or inconsistencies to the UDHR. If the Bible is inconsistent, so is the UDHR:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights
See the criticism to the UDHR:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights#Criticism
See: Are Human rights really Universal?
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Human_Rights/Are_HR_Universal%3F.html
Because your Biblegod declares homosexuality to be wrong, you will never be able to support equal human rights, the same goes for the equal rights of women, since the Bible declares that men should rule over women. If homosexuality is a human right or equal human right then your equal human right concept is wrong. If every men marries men and every women marries women, it will be the death knell of humans....extinction as we know it within several decades. And as David M said, sexual diseases will be rampant which will further speed up the death knell for humans.
I love the U.D.H.R. because is states so clearly and unambiguously that ALL PEOPLE ARE BORN FREE AND EQUAL ... something the Bible does not state!
If you love UDHR, you will love God because that's where human rights started based on Love God with all your heart, soul and might and Love thy neighbor as thyself; it is well stated!
Of course people who violate the human rights of others, must forfeit some of their own human rights as punishment. I have no problem with punishing those who commit crimes, but the punishment must fit the crime ... unlike the Biblegod who thinks that picking up sticks on the Sabbath, or not being a virgin (women only) on your wedding night is worthy of death!
If you have no problem with those punished for committing crimes, then you should have no problem with the death penalty for such things as drug trafficking, rapes, murder, kinapping etc. If the US government decree death penalty for speeding, we have to abide by the law and whoever beaks the law by speeding (except for certain exceptions) will face the gallows. Laws must be upheld if not, where is the integrity and justice?
The U.D.H.R. is a law drawn up in 1948 by the United Nations ... it is called universal because it applies to all countries.
Unfortunately, there is'nt much progress, why? ....because the human rights to basic needs such as security, safety, food are not met. Deal with first things first and UDHR will be more successful. Human progress without the blessings of God is doomed for failure.
God Bless.:pray:
Hello Rose
The answer; "God did it" is an absolute answer and is one stage back from theory science puts forward. Where does matter come from is explained by the God-factor. Where does matter come from has no explanation in science. If you say; "matter always existed", then it is equally permissible to say that God has always existed. God is the explanation for matter, even though scientifically, there is no scientific proof for showing God exists.
Hello David
"God did it" is not the slightest bit helpful when it comes to understanding how the universe works. If people would have been satisfied with that explanation, there would be no field of science. It is human curiosity and the drive to understand our environment that has led to the growth in scientific knowledge. The Christian church throughout its history, has tried to suppress the human quest for knowledge if it went against biblical teaching, but the spirit of discovery won out. :clap2:
As for curing diseases, of course you do not believe in miracles and you cannot belief in the power that created all the matter in this universe, therefore you do not accept that God can cure diseases far better than humans can. The problem is; there is no way of testing God in the way we would like to do.
Consider the serpent that was raised up on the pole. When someone was bitten and they would have died, they had to have faith and go and look upon the serpent to be healed and not die. You have no faith now, therefore you are excluded from that source of cure if such a source were made available. Alas, God is not going to put up a source like that by which what I say can be proven. There is the example of Naaman who had to wash seven times in the river Jordan before he was made clean from leprosy. Once Naaman did that which was required (and we note that faith in this instance was not called for), the cure was instant. Science will never lead to cures comparable to the way God can cure.
If the Biblegod can cure diseases far better than humans, why did it take the discovery of medicines to cure people of diseases? The Plague killed hundreds of millions of people, when the cure was the discovery of antibiotics. Where was god when all those people were dying? When humans discover a cure for an illness they don't withhold it from people, why should god?
You claim science will never be able to cure people the way god can, yet the heavens remain silent and people keep dying. The only record of god's healing power is in an ancient book that cannot be trusted to even give people equal human rights, let alone a prescription for healing. Whenever science finds a cure, people know about it and benefit from it, not so with the Biblegod.
I think you will find that Gentiles were to be treated with just as much respect as the Hebrews were to show amongst themselves. There is the example of the Good Samaritan in which Jesus asked; Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? You know the answer and this story involves doing good to a Samaritan (a Gentile).
I don't think that was the case. Take for example the treatment of slaves; heathen slaves could be treated much harsher than Hebrew slaves, so there certainly was no consistency in loving ones neighbor.
I doubt the U.D.H.R. has everything buttoned up and that is why cases are taken to the court of human rights and a ruling obtained which then becomes enshrined in the law of human rights. The second Great Commandment ought to be universal and applied correctly. There is always the exception to any rule. Until everyone conforms, we have to have rules. Once everyone conforms, then there does not have to be a rule. The second Great Commandment cannot apply to a sadomasochist.
Even if what Jesus said about loving ones neighbor were applied correctly, it still does not cover the entire spectrum like declaring that "All humans are born free and equal" does. That single statement covers the human rights of ALL people, nothing more needs to be added.
The statements in the Bible about loving ones neighbor, fall far short of claiming equal human rights ... the reason being is that the Biblegod does not believe in equal human rights, like in the cases of homosexuality and women. One cannot in all truthfulness be a Bible believing Christian and also believe in equal human rights, because the very foundation of biblical belief is that all people ARE NOT created equal and thus not entitled to equal human rights.
Exactly so. Humanism and Theism are not totally compatible. In fact, the U.D.H.R.is imposing restrictions on people who think they should have the freedom to do whatever they want to do. Maybe homosexuals should separate themselves completely from the heterosexual society by going to live in a separate country all to themselves. Then whatever diseases that arise, they keep the diseases amongst themselves.
Human rights is not about people doing whatever they want, they are about all people being treated equally and sharing in the same rights as human beings.
Homosexuals spread no more diseases than do promiscuous heterosexuals, and we know there are a lot of them around. Promiscuity is the main cause of the spread of STD's, which is why homosexuals should be allowed to marry so they can settle down in a stable relationship.
You are not as free as you think. You are a bondslave to sin and death. Under humanist law you are doomed to eternal death. The law of God actually gives you a way out whereby you are freed from that. (Rom 8:2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.. In the humanist world, you are subject to eternal death and you can never be free from that.
You know the freedom I am speaking of is the freedom to enjoy equal human rights, which the Bible denies.
You say; "the punishment must fit the crime" but you are against an "eye for an eye" principle preferring to let murderers (even where there is no doubt) off the death penalty. Instead, thousands of dollars are wasted by keeping these reprobates in prison until they die or let out of prison after serving a "life sentence" (hardly that), which would be money better spent helping the poor and needy.
Incidentally, there is more behind those two crimes you cite from the Bible. "Picking up sticks", or not being a virgin is not the real issue. The issue, in the case of the sticks. is breaking the law, which was prescribed for the Sabbath. Breaking the law applying to the Sabbath, is sin, which brings the consequence of eternal death. Breaking laws for which the punishment is death, should serve as a reminder to ensure those laws are kept to. In the case of the non-virgin on her wedding night, it is the deceit that is the sin and is so deceitful as to warrant death. When marriage should be for life, a man who wants to marry a virgin, does not want to be married to a woman defiled by another man for the rest of his life. The death of the deceitful woman is the only way the man is released from the marriage in order to marry again and marry a virgin. Otherwise, the man commits adultery, if he marries again while his first wife remains alive. The deceitful wife has also compromised the man who though free to marry again, is not a virgin himself and might not be acceptable to another woman who is a virgin. You see the mess and complication which arises from the initial deceit.
All the best
David
My point that punishment should fit the crime does not mean "an eye for an eye". I have given my reasons why I think capital punishment is wrong. It's not because I think murderers are not deserving of death, but because of the possibility of condemning the wrong person to death, it is not worth the risk of condemning an innocent person to death. You on the other hand are so supportive of capital punishment that you justify the death penalty for things like breaking the Sabbath rules and non-virginity!
To have the punishment for picking up sticks on the Sabbath on par with the punishment for murder is insane, and your justifications only serve to make you look calloused and hard hearted. The same goes for the gender biased law of virginity on ones wedding night, which by the way didn't apply to the man! Men were never tested for virginity and were always allowed to divorce their wives (unlike women with their husbands), even Jesus said that the law of Moses allowed for men to divorce. It was only women, like Paul mentions in Rom.7:2 and 1Cor.7:39 that were bound to their husbands under the law for life, so once again your justification of the gender biased laws of the Bible reflect poorly on your character.
Take care,
Rose
Science don't have answers to many questions and even if they have, there are errors. If the scientific foundation is wrong, every theory based on that foundation will be wrong; a good example is the theory of Phlogiston. Yes, God did it, it is as simple as that; no need to go through all the convoluted theories how the earth and humans and life came about. If I said Ford created cars, I mean simply the truth; no need to go through convoluted theories of how metals came about and somehow merged with other metals and plastics naturally through many millions of years of evolution and through the survival of the fittest and natural selection gradually came the cars that we see today.
You make no sense! The beauty of science is that when it is wrong everyone knows, because experiments don't work and testing fails. When science succeeds, we build rockets and computers that work and cure diseases!
Saying "God did it" gets us nowhere. It doesn't find cures for diseases, it doesn't give us knowledge on how to grow more food, it does nothing. It makes a person dependent on asking god for everything, but getting no answers.
Look carefully and you can see that all the UDHR are covered under the 2 great Commandments of Love God with all Your heart, soul and might and Love the neighbor as thyself. Love God with all your heart soul and might covers all the human rights related to religion and day of rest and Love thy neighbor as yourself relates to all the other articles of the UDHR.
You and David both are totally ignorant of what true equal human rights really are. If loving god and loving your neighbor covers all human rights, then why are women denied equal human rights in the Bible? Why are slaves denied equal human rights in the Bible? Why are homosexuals denied equal human rights in the Bible?
As I have stated dozens of times, all people are human and as such are entitled to equal human rights. The Bible denies people equal human rights for reasons based on race, gender and sexual preference.
The foundation of human rights dose not begin with equal human rights alone but other considerations must be included such as basic needs before you can even go to the need for equal human rights, if not everything will be futile. If basic needs such as food, shelter, safety, security are not met, will people be interested to strive for equal human rights? Obviously No. My definition of human rights is different from yours, my definition is every gender works together using their natural abilities to reach for common good goals. This is analogous to every employee in the company working as a team using their own job knowledge and expertise to achieve the company's goals which will ultimately benefit everybody in the company. Know the meaning, "Thou shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes out from the mouth of God". It simply means that one shall live by basic needs and rights alone but also by the commandments and knowledge of God.
Not everybody on earth will agree with equal human rights for everybody and several countries have yet to sign the UDHR. Are the 20% rich willing to share their wealth with the 80% poor? Are the well-fed willing to share their food with the underfed? And those living in bungalows willing to share their houses with the poor who do not have a roof above their heads? Are the criminals and evil men willing to repent of their ways and live righteous lives? Will everyone willing to live in peace without need for wars and killings? If the answer is No, then we are not ready for equal human rights. Therefore, stop wasting your time fighting for equal human rights until all these have been resolved; better to fight for human rights that are more achievable for the time being such as more protections for women. This is in fact the duty of men to protect women but some evil men abuse that rule into bullying women.
There can only be ONE definition of human rights, and that is the rights afforded people based on the fact that they are human, rights based on anything else would not be considered human rights. The foundation of all morality must be based on equal human rights. Just because everyone doesn't agree that all people should have equal human rights (like Christians) doesn't mean everyone isn't entitled to them.
If homosexuality is a human right or equal human right then your equal human right concept is wrong. If every men marries men and every women marries women, it will be the death knell of humans....extinction as we know it within several decades. And as David M said, sexual diseases will be rampant which will further speed up the death knell for humans.
No, my concept of equal human rights is not wrong! It is you who does not think homosexuals should have equal human rights, and I know you are intelligent enough to know that homosexuals are just as human as you or I!
Having children is not a requirement for having a sexual relationship or marriage. If every heterosexual couple on the planet decided not to have children, our species would soon go extinct ... so what? The only reason people should have children is because they want to enjoy them, NOT because they want to keep the human race from going extinct.
If you love UDHR, you will love God because that's where human rights started based on Love God with all your heart, soul and might and Love thy neighbor as thyself; it is well stated!
Loving god and loving their neighbor did not give equal human rights to any of the women, or the slaves in the Bible. No where in the Bible does it say that ALL PEOPLE ARE BORN FREE AND EQUAL, no matter how much they love god.
If you have no problem with those punished for committing crimes, then you should have no problem with the death penalty for such things as drug trafficking, rapes, murder, kinapping etc. If the US government decree death penalty for speeding, we have to abide by the law and whoever beaks the law by speeding (except for certain exceptions) will face the gallows. Laws must be upheld if not, where is the integrity and justice?
Unfortunately, there is'nt much progress, why? ....because the human rights to basic needs such as security, safety, food are not met. Deal with first things first and UDHR will be more successful. Human progress without the blessings of God is doomed for failure.
God Bless.:pray:
People can be punished for their crimes without imposing the death penalty. I have already explained to David the reason I am opposed to capital punishment, it is not worth the risk of an innocent person being put to death.
You have it backwards. First, a foundation of equal human rights must be laid, so people have something to build upon. The problem with the Bible is that is does not give equal human rights to people, so men take advantage of that and deny people their rights.
Take care,
Rose
You make no sense! The beauty of science is that when it is wrong everyone knows, because experiments don't work and testing fails. When science succeeds, we build rockets and computers that work and cure diseases!
Science is based on God's creation...microbiology, geology, archeology... you named it and therefore without God's creation there is no science. If the scientific foundation is wrong, whatever based on that foundation is wrong. And many scientific theories always changes because their foundations are wrong.
Saying "God did it" gets us nowhere. It doesn't find cures for diseases, it doesn't give us knowledge on how to grow more food, it does nothing. It makes a person dependent on asking god for everything, but getting no answers.
Without God's creations there won't be any medicine to cure. God don't spoon feed us. same as you don't spoon feed your children if not, how are they to fend for themselves when they grew up? Same as the teacher will not give the answers to the questions straightaway to the students as she wants them to research and learn. Know the meaning "Ask and you shall be given, Seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened onto you".
You and David both are totally ignorant of what true equal human rights really are. If loving god and loving your neighbor covers all human rights, then why are women denied equal human rights in the Bible? Why are slaves denied equal human rights in the Bible? Why are homosexuals denied equal human rights in the Bible?
As I have stated dozens of times, all people are human and as such are entitled to equal human rights. The Bible denies people equal human rights for reasons based on race, gender and sexual preference.
There can only be ONE definition of human rights, and that is the rights afforded people based on the fact that they are human, rights based on anything else would not be considered human rights. The foundation of all morality must be based on equal human rights. Just because everyone doesn't agree that all people should have equal human rights (like Christians) doesn't mean everyone isn't entitled to them.
Correct, but equal human rights is just a dream which is humanly impossible based on all the reasons that I have given.... distribution curve, political, education etc. etc. Better to wait for a more intelligent and powerful force call God to help us solve those problems. Better that we spent time fighting for more achievable human rights goals. Better that both gender work together with their own strengths and abilities for the common good goals.
No, my concept of equal human rights is not wrong! It is you who does not think homosexuals should have equal human rights, and I know you are intelligent enough to know that homosexuals are just as human as you or I!
Same as I would put to you that that rapists, molesters, pedophiles, murderers should have equal human rights because they are humans right? They should have the freedom to do what they think is right, right?
Having children is not a requirement for having a sexual relationship or marriage. If every heterosexual couple on the planet decided not to have children, our species would soon go extinct ... so what? The only reason people should have children is because they want to enjoy them, NOT because they want to keep the human race from going extinct.
You are contradicting yourself. You said "children is not a requirement for marriage yet.. they want to enjoy them":confused:. If humans want to go extinct then rape is justified to ensure that humans will not go extinct.
Loving god and loving their neighbor did not give equal human rights to any of the women, or the slaves in the Bible. No where in the Bible does it say that ALL PEOPLE ARE BORN FREE AND EQUAL, no matter how much they love god.
Neither did the Bible said ALL PEOPLE ARE BORN UNFREE AND UNEQUAL. Many of the inequalities you saw in the Bible are due to evil or ignorant men abusing their powers. Slavery was a job which some people seek knowing the risks and responsibilities same as soldiers or prostitutes. They should be given the freedom to choose the jobs they want....right?
People can be punished for their crimes without imposing the death penalty. I have already explained to David the reason I am opposed to capital punishment, it is not worth the risk of an innocent person being put to death.
Then where is the justice? Would you be satisfied supposing the murderer who murdered your husband and children get away with a light sentence or better still, go scot free with an apology?
You have it backwards. First, a foundation of equal human rights must be laid, so people have something to build upon. The problem with the Bible is that is does not give equal human rights to people, so men take advantage of that and deny people their rights.
The Bible simply shows us that human rights is not equal human rights but equal opportunities for all to work together using their strengths and abilities for common goods; this is what is meant by love thy neighbor as thyself....I helped you because of brotherly love and I expect you to help me with brotherly love in return....This is equal human rights.
God Bess.:pray:
Here is an awesome poster I found, created by zenpencils.com ... declaring what every person living in the 21st century should know!
All Humans are born free and equal, and equal means having the same rights!
1184
David M
06-22-2014, 01:53 AM
Here is an awesome poster I found, created by zenpencils.com ... declaring what every person living in the 21st century should know!
The poster is good to lay out in an easy to read way a summary of human rights. I cannot agree to all he human rights as they are written on this poster.
For example, I get the impression this is telling us we are entitled to sponge of a "nanny" state and expect the government to provide for us.
One more thing that does not seem right to me is; for cultures to infiltrate another country and then for those cultures to have the right to be given government support. OK, so some cultures are benign, but what of cultures whose practices are not acceptable?
The poster is good to lay out in an easy to read way a summary of human rights. I cannot agree to all he human rights as they are written on this poster.
For example, I get the impression this is telling us we are entitled to sponge off a "nanny" state and expect the government to provide for us.
One more thing that does not seem right to me is; for cultures to infiltrate another country and then for those cultures to have the right to be given government support. OK, so some cultures are benign, but what of cultures whose practices are not acceptable?
Hello David
I'm not really sure how you come up with the "Nanny" state thing? After all, it is people who make up governments, which are supposed to make sure that all people are treated fairly and justly.
The U.D.H.R. was written up by representatives from the many countries that make up United Nations. Its goal is to declare the equality of all human beings on the planet and the right to freely choose how they wish to live their lives ... which is far different from the biased and unjust laws written in the Bible.
Here is an awesome poster I found, created by zenpencils.com ... declaring what every person living in the 21st century should know!
All Humans are born free and equal, and equal means having the same rights!
1184
Unfortunately, Rose don't believe in UDHR in the equal rights to the freedom to believe in religion because she want us all to throw away the Bible and be atheists. Brilliant!
God Blessed.:pray:
Unfortunately, Rose don't believe in UDHR in the equal rights to the freedom to believe in religion because she want us all to throw away the Bible and be atheists. Brilliant!
God Blessed.:pray:
You are breaking the 9th commandment by bearing false witness against me. Shame, shame :nono:
I am in total support of individuals practicing any religion they wish, just as long as they don't try and impose their beliefs on others. I don't want you to throw away your Bible, or become an atheist. What I want, is for you to open your eyes to the immoralities and human rights violations promoted in the Bible. Once you realize that the book you think is inspired by god, is no more than a record of human history, and the myths of superstitious primitive men, you will become an atheist all on your own. :lol:
Here is an awesome poster I found, created by zenpencils.com ... declaring what every person living in the 21st century should know!
All Humans are born free and equal, and equal means having the same rights!
1184
Rose don't seems to understand that UDHR is related to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. UDHR is a higher or passive needs which means the lower needs of safety, physiology ect. must be met first before the higher needs can be met. As such it is humanly impossible to reach equal human rights as stated in the UDHR unless the lower needs are met. Further more , as I have listed in my previous posts, there are many obstacles to making UDHR a reality. See this article on Human rights and Maslow's hierarchy of needs:
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, signed into life by UN General Assembly on 10 December 1948, just five years after the Maslow’s publication of “A Theory of Human Motivation”, echoes the work via a set of Articles stating the rights of every human being.
Physiological Needs
Article 25 of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that everyone is entitled to the right of adequate food (and presumably water is included), housing and clothing (for homeostasis control), and medical care. The right to medical care implies to me the right to live healthy, or at least healthy to the best of ability of a particular individual.
This right to medical care as a universal right of all human beings can be interpreted to mean many things. For the purposes of the comparison to the Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, it could be interpreted as every human has the right to have their physiological needs met.
This could be very difficult — breathing can mean clean air and thus imply environment law limiting man-made pollutants. But how do we define clean? For individuals with asthma, air quality controls might need to be set quite high…
Maslow includes “excretion” as one of the physiological need, which could be interpreted as part of a set of employment rules — providing enough breaks for all workers to meet their sleep, nutrition, body function, even sexual needs. In fact, Article 24 of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights specifically addresses the rights of reasonable limitation of working hours and payed holidays.
Safety
Maslow’s Pyramid includes security of body, employment, resources, morality, the family, health (again), and property as forming the basis of the second foundation of human needs.
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 3, states that “everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.” While Article 4 specifically address slavery: “No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.”
While not directly mentioned in Maslow’s Pyramid, torture and cruel and inhuman treatment from others are clearly in violation of both Physiological and Safety Needs. Article 5 specifically deals with this: “No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.” While Article 9 addresses arbitrary detention and exile.
Article 17, states that everyone has the right to own property which can’t be arbitrarily taken away.
Article 16 protects human rights in relation to having family and provides for equal protection as to marriage, entered with full consent of both parties involved.
Article 23 deals with the rights to work and having free choice of employment, as well as equal pay for equal work and right to form unions. Obviously, there are geographical considerations — different economies value similar work of a different pay scale (thus we are able to import goods from countries that have cheap labor…). The “choice” of employment is also culturally and geographically determined. But Maslow’s Pyramid only provides that a person needs employment…
Article 25 also provides for state assistance in event of “unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.”
Love/belonging
Friendship, family, and sexual intimacy form the third foundation of Maslow’s Pyramid of Hierarchy of Human Needs.
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights provides for friendship, family, and sexual intimacy via instituting equal rights under the law, Articles 6 and 7; via protection from “arbitrary interference”, Article 12; and via right to a nationality, Article 15.
Friendships and families need equal protection under the law clauses to form and blossom, for friendship can only form among equals. Protections from “arbitrary interference” also provide for freedom to choose personal associations. And the right to nationality provides for group belonging.
Esteem
Abraham Maslow defines Esteem as self-esteem, confidence, achievement, respect of others, and respect by others. While many of the Articles of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights discussed so far are necessary for Esteem, a few address this need by providing for educational opportunities. Article 26 covers the human right to education.
I believe self-esteem, confidence, achievement, and respect of and by others is a direct outcome attaining full educational potential. This is clearly a very difficult goal to achieve.
Self-actualization
The top of the Maslow’s Pyramid is composed of self-actualization defined by morality, creativity, spontaneity, problem solving, lack of prejudice, and acceptance of facts. Access to education clearly plays a huge role in self-actualization. But The Universal Declaration of Human Rights goes even farther.
Article 27 provides for the right “to freely participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits”; as well as the right to “the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.” This is an amazing clause of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Article 28 stipulates a world where all of the rights outlined in The Universal Declaration of Human Rights are possible: “everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.”
And finally Article 29 outlines the duties of individuals to their communities.
Human Needs versus Human Rights
Abraham Maslow created a hierarchical set of human needs — self-actualization and esteem require that a person’s physiological needs and safety be met first. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights is a collection of human rights. These rights not only spell out that the basic needs of individuals have to be met, but also go farther to guarantee some of the higher needs, like desire for love, family, and personal achievement.
Are the rights outlined by The Universal Declaration of Human Rights passive or active rights? Dr. Jacques Steyn gave a very good explanation of the difference during his 2011 talk on ICT & Human Rights: passive rights are aspirational — this is what we all hope to achieve someday; active rights are prescriptive — violations needs to be address by the world’s community.
By looking at Maslow’s hierarchical pyramid of needs, it’s clear that some needs/rights have to be active — right to food and water, to medical care, to shelter, freedom from torture… But other rights in The Universal Declaration of Human Rights seem to be more passive — right to education and self-furfilment. We hope that everyone has all of the rights, but we as a world community have to take some responsibility for insuring that the basic needs, the active rights, are met for all.
Health and the surrounding needs (access to medicine and food & water and safe environment) is clearly one of the active rights.
http://www.interfaces.com/blog/2013/09/health-human-rights-and-maslows-hierarchy-of-needs/
God Bless/:pray:
You are breaking the 9th commandment by bearing false witness against me. Shame, shame :nono:
I am in total support of individuals practicing any religion they wish, just as long as they don't try and impose their beliefs on others. I don't want you to throw away your Bible, or become an atheist. What I want, is for you to open your eyes to the immoralities and human rights violations promoted in the Bible. Once you realize that the book you think is inspired by god, is no more than a record of human history, and the myths of superstitious primitive men, you will become an atheist all on your own. :lol:
Then don't tell us to throw away our Bibles.
Shame on you also breaking the 9th commandment by bearing false witness against me. Shame, shame :nono:
i am not against equal human rights but that equal human rights mean equal opportunities for everyone to work as a team for the common goods using their own abilities and individual make up. Just like in a company, there must be a director, managers, supervisors, workers if not the company cannot be sustained supposedly if everyone in the company are managers and no workers. Such inequalities in power and responsibilities must exist in order for the company and the society to be viable.
I also believe that equal human rights as stated in the UDHR is humanly impossible due to the insurmountable obstacles and the need to meet our basic needs first , therefore we should spend our time more productively by making small achievable advances first whilst waiting for a more intelligent and powerful force we call God to intervene and make equal human rights a reality.
I hope I have made myself clear.
God Bless.:pray:
Then don't tell us to throw away our Bibles.
Shame on you also breaking the 9th commandment by bearing false witness against me. Shame, shame :nono:
Show me where I have born false witness against you, or else you have broken the 9th commandment again!
i am not against equal human rights but that equal human rights mean equal opportunities for everyone to work as a team for the common goods using their own abilities and individual make up. Just like in a company, there must be a director, managers, supervisors, workers if not the company cannot be sustained supposedly if everyone in the company are managers and no workers. Such inequalities in power and responsibilities must exist in order for the company and the society to be viable.
If you are not against equal human rights, why do you support the biblical laws that violate peoples human rights, especially women's human rights?
I also believe that equal human rights as stated in the UDHR is humanly impossible due to the insurmountable obstacles and the need to meet our basic needs first , therefore we should spend our time more productively by making small achievable advances first whilst waiting for a more intelligent and powerful force we call God to intervene and make equal human rights a reality.
I hope I have made myself clear.
God Bless.:pray:
It doesn't matter if you think it is impossible, what matters is acknowledging that everyone is entitled to equal human rights, which the Bible denies.
[QUOTE=Rose;64145]Show me where I have born false witness against you, or else you have broken the 9th commandment again!
You accused me of not supporting human rights! I support equal human rights means equal opportunities i.e. meritocracy using each abilities and make up working harmoniously together for good common goals. Jesus said that if you want to be great, you must serve meaning work hard and humbly for it.
Luke 22:26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.
If you are not against equal human rights, why do you support the biblical laws that violate peoples human rights, especially women's human rights?
I have said hundred and one time that there is no biblical laws that violates human rights. Why only women's human rights?.....don't you also bother about men's human rights or do you think men don't deserve human rights? And you call yourself a fighter for equal human rights? BS! Everyone has a human right to believe what he thinks is right; and you have no bloody right to tell us to throw away our Bible and religion. We know God's character unlike you; we know that everything that God did even if it seems atrocious and unfair is for the moral law for the greater good in which He ensures that good will triumphed over evil. You concept of God is as primitive as the belief of primitive men. Wake up and live in the 21st century!
It doesn't matter if you think it is impossible, what matters is acknowledging that everyone is entitled to equal human rights, which the Bible denies.
It matters, why waste your time and effort fighting an impossible elusive dream? Everyone has a human right to believe what he believes....or are you also asking us to throw away that right?.....Equal human right means equal opportunity to live and work harmoniously together using our differences. Variety is the spice of life.
I have said that Maslow's hierarchy of needs is related to equal human rights. If the basic needs are not adwquately met, then equal human rights is just a dream. And that is exactly what Jesus said in the Beatitudes and it is all about satisfying the basic needs first in order to satisfy the higher needs or aspirations:
Matthew 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. - safety
4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. - security and/or physiological
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. - safety
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled - physiological/belonging
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. - belonging
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.- belonging
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. - safety
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. - safety
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. - safety
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Maslow Hierarchy of Needs:
http://www.simplypsychology.org/Hierarchyofneeds.jpg
God Bless.:pray:
You accused me of not supporting human rights! I support equal human rights means equal opportunities i.e. meritocracy using each abilities and make up working harmoniously together for good common goals. Jesus said that if you want to be great, you must serve meaning work hard and humbly for it.
I dare you to say "All people are entitled to equal human rights" without using your meritocracy definition. If you do state in writing that you believe all people are entitled to equal human rights, you will then have to explain to me how you can support the gender-biased laws in the Bible that violate peoples equal human rights.
If you are not against equal human rights, why do you support the biblical laws that violate peoples human rights, especially women's human rights?
I have said hundred and one time that there is no biblical laws that violates human rights. Why only women's human rights?.....don't you also bother about men's human rights or do you think men don't deserve human rights? And you call yourself a fighter for equal human rights? BS! Everyone has a human right to believe what he thinks is right; and you have no bloody right to tell us to throw away our Bible and religion. We know God's character unlike you; we know that everything that God did even if it seems atrocious and unfair is for the moral law for the greater good in which He ensures that good will triumphed over evil. You concept of God is as primitive as the belief of primitive men. Wake up and live in the 21st century!
You can say it a million times if you want, but that does not make it so! Either you don't understand what equal human rights means, or you have not read your Bible. There is no way you can say that a law that entitles a man to take a woman captive and force her to marry him is not violating that woman's human rights.
Deuteronomy 21:10-11 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, 11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;
Unlike you who supports the gender-biased laws of the Bible, I think ALL people are entitled to equal human rights. If you will take note that I said, is it is especially women who suffer from human rights violations in the Bible.
It matters, why waste your time and effort fighting an impossible elusive dream? Everyone has a human right to believe what he believes....or are you also asking us to throw away that right?.....Equal human right means equal opportunity to live and work harmoniously together using our differences. Variety is the spice of life.
I have said that Maslow's hierarchy of needs is related to equal human rights. If the basic needs are not adwquately met, then equal human rights is just a dream. And that is exactly what Jesus said in the Beatitudes and it is all about satisfying the basic needs first in order to satisfy the higher needs or aspirations:
I'm sorry you feel it is a waste of time to fight for equal human rights. I know I am grateful for all the women and men who fought for women's equality in areas like voting and being able to get an education and marrying the person we choose. If it was left up to men like you, women would still be denied the right to vote and to get and education.
Equal human rights means every person is entitled to equality when it comes to their rights as a human ... it's as simple as that. It's not a matter of what people believe, it is a matter of what is true! All people share the quality of being human and as such are entitled to equal human rights.
ALL PEOPLE ARE ENTITLED TO EQUAL HUMAN RIGHTS ... Come on Cheow, see if you can say that!
Women's rights are human rights,
Rose
The basic issue that is being discussed on this thread is whether or not biblical laws violate peoples human rights, especially those of women.
Cheow has stated that there are NO biblical laws that violate any human rights!
I have said hundred and one time that there is no biblical laws that violates human rights.
I have quoted verses from the Bible to him that "point blank" deny women equal human rights, yet Cheow continues to defend and justify those verses, or change the topic to something that is irrelevant to the biblical law being discussed.
The Bible either denies human rights or it doesn't ... it can't be both. Even if a person thinks that he comes up with valid reasons and justifications for slavery and giving captive women to their captors for wives, doesn't mean human rights were not violated! They most certainly were!
When a judge denies a person their human right of freedom by sending them to prison, it is because they committed a crime, when the Bible does it it is because the person was a woman. It is not the right of men to determine the rights of women, yet the Bible decrees that men should rule over women ... that is insane!
All humans are entitled to equal human rights,
Rose
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