Texe Marrs, The Protocols, etc.

[Trap]

Hello Trap.....just a quick comment on your post. My first impression is one that would lead me to consider the fact that perhaps you might just be a bit anti-semetic.

Sigh, the greatest weapon to blind and silence Christians ever created was the invention of the term "anti-semitic". As Father Denis Fahey stated:"What is meant by the term? Anti-Semitism is the word used by the Jews to designate any form of opposition to themselves, and they strive persistently to associate irrationality and want of balance with the term. They evidently want the world to believe that anyone who opposes Jewish pretensions is more or less mentally deranged." My advice to all Christians is to be brave enough to take the anti-semitic label as it's a false one and just a weapon to keep us blind and inert.

Now as far as Schindler's List. You do realize that this was a propaganda vehicle by Steven Speilberg, right? I think Michael Hoffman points out in his book: Judaism's Strange Gods that here too there was a little sleight of hand going on. In one scene a (I haven't seen it and don't intend to) a Jew (rabbi?) says that in their Talmud it says that if you save one life it's as if you've saved the whole world." Uh no, the Talmud says that if you save one JEWISH life it's as if you've saved the whole world. Gentiles are cattle, goyim, etc.
Oh, did you know that Steven Speilberg visited Fidel Castro in November 2002 and had dinner with him and stayed with him until the early morning hours. Speilberg stated:"They were the most important eight hours of my life." Speilberg, the man who made that movie idolized the Communist CryptoJew who terrorized, tortured, murdered and imprisoned the Christians who opposed him. Oh, how do I know Castro's a CrytoJew? He admits it himself. Look up Crypto-Judaism on Wikipedia(btw, a proJewish,proZionist outfit) and you'll see among the famous CryptoJews Castro admits there were marranos in his ancestry!

Gosh, it's been over fifteen years now since I became aware of how supremely powerful Christianity's historical foe is. I started by reading The Plot Against the Church which was handed out to all of the bishops before Vatican II to alert them to the Jewish Conspiracy. Apparently they didn't read it or didn't heed it. I'm still Catholic, but I'm just one-step away from a sede-vacantist position and that Vatican II was a false council.
By the way, if you go to iamthewitness.com The first tape I would advise you to listen to would be Benjamin Freedman's, who was a high-ranking Jew himself, i.e., he was hobnobbing with Bernard Baruch, etc. That'll curl your hair. I would also advise you to find the mp3 wherein Darryl Bradford Smith interviews Rev. Ted Pike on the Scofield Bible as you learn a lot about the Scofield Bible's influence on Christian Zionism you'll also find out that Abe Foxman, a religious orthodox Jew, head of the ADL has been fighting against Creationism, fighting for homosexual rights, proabortion, etc., etc., etc.

As far as the Republic Broadcast Network I won't give my okay to all of the shows they put out, I haven't even listened to most of them, but the ones I've mentioned are pretty informative.

[gilgal]

IG Farben produced the Zyklon B gas which poisoned Holocaust victims. IG Farben was owned by the Rothschilds. I guess Rothschild was anti-Semitic!

[gilgal]

Check this out.
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

[gilgal]

And this:
http://www.jewishracism.com/

[Trap]

Hello Trap.....just a quick comment on your post. My first impression is one that would lead me to consider the fact that perhaps you might just be a bit anti-semetic.

One reason why I'll NEVER go to see Schindler's List is because since I've been a child I've seen a score or more movies on the Holocaust and what the Jews suffered in WWII, but I've never seen a movie yet that told us of how the JEWS took over Russia and slaughtered the entire Christian intelligentsia, tortured them with unspeakable atrocities, and murdered at least 60 million in Russia alone and the gulag concentration camps that were set up long before the concentration camps for the Jews! If we point out that the Communist revolution was a Jewish operation we're labeled as 'anti-semites' (see how that works we're supposed to keep our mouths shut), and yet I can give you quotes from Jews themselves,
from their own publications wherein they proudly take credit for Communism! Ask Me and I'll supply a litany of them. Now, how many movies have you seen about the slaughter of Christians, or the Christians sent to Gulags? We have it from their own mouths that Communism is a Jewish instrument to take over the world! It's a two-pronged attack actually split between Zionism and Communism now.

A few years ago now I asked my brother, who'd been a Christian many years before me, if he knew what a CryptoJew was? He didn't he also didn't know what the Talmud really was and I don't think he'd even heard of the Kaballah! Knowledge of the CryptoJew is probably the most important weapon a Christian today should have and doesn't have! It's amazing how we read the Bible, but we somehow always miss this. That's because most of our Pastors, or leaders don't know it, or don't want us to know it. But it's in there, forget exactly where but the verse goes something like this: "They have crept in amongst you, those who deny the divinity of Christ." Think that was Paul and he was referring to the Jews who entered Christian communities to either spy on them or dissolve them through the introduction of heresies. Most of the early Gnostic heresies were the inventions of CryptoJews. A lesson lost to most of us today. We also forget Paul's "they are the enemies of all men." referring to the Jews. We also seem to forget Jesus' (GOD'S!) reviling of the scribes and pharisees when he told them their father was the devil. Modern Judaism, i.e., rabbinical Judaism, is the worst form of the beliefs that Our Lord was railing against put into writing.

I believe that John Hagee's arrogance and his disdain for us all shows when he can even attempt to put across a book like that. Every Christian
knows Our Lord said,"NO ONE comes to the Father except through Me." Something the recent pontiffs are apparently ignorant of also.

Am I saying that John Hagee is a Crypto? No, I wouldn't make that assertion.

I would like for someone much wiser than me to explain what Paul Crouch meant one Saturday afternoon when he shook his fist at the screen and said, (I saw this myself)"Let this be the generation when the wealth of the nations comes to Zion!" There was a slight pause here and then he added, "In Jesus' Name" I don't ever recall reading that in the New Testament, do you? But it's a core belief of the Talmud, i.e, the Jews will acquire the wealth of all the nations and rule from Jerusalem (Zion).
Haven't seen much of Paul Crouch lately since he's been embroiled in a payoff to hush-hush a homosexual scandal with a TBN employee. Cathy Burn (a Protestant intellectual) in her book Billy Graham and His Friends mentions that a Paul Crouch was a district organizer for the Communist party in a southern state. Think it was this Paul Crouch. I do know that Jan has stated several times on how her father was a "convert' from Judaism. Hmmm....

I would also like to know how TBN in past years, haven't watched them lately, was getting away with the most satanic "music" I've ever seen on late night Saturdays? Has anyone here ever seen these atrocities I speak of? One group was called Shaded Red and the song was Revolution and the video featured Christian and Communist symbols together! This is right out of the Kabballah, i.e., mixing good and evil, i.e., Christianity and Communsim. They had groups with spiked hair, satanic lighting, rings in their ears, noses, lips, (yes lips!). It was the most satanic, New Age garbage I've ever seen and yet they were getting away with it! They also were promoting raves. Yes, RAVES! Now, Raves are supposed to put one in a hypnotic trance and encourage the use of drugs like ecstasy. They said it was okay because they didn't advocate drug use and took to the "bad" words out of their songs. C'mon, people! How stupid are we!

[Trap]

Hello Trap.....just a quick comment on your post. My first impression is one that would lead me to consider the fact that perhaps you might just be a bit anti-semetic.

Sorry there's now three replies to this, but I must have inadvertently sent the first reply up accidentally before I was finished.

It's been a long time since I've been on the message boards. Used to before the advent of the Internet on the national boards.

[Trap]

Hi Trap,

Welcome to our forum!

welcome:


It too am glad that Hagee "took off his mask." If he had not clearly stated his heresy, it would have been impossible to convince the sheep that they had a wolf for a pastor. Indeed, even now after his blatant apostasy his pews are probably still full, and there are deceived Christians saying things like "it's not our place to judge" and "he didn't really mean what he said" etc.

I don't know anything about most of the people and organzations you mentioned, but I do know enough about Text Marrs to feel very very wary of any theory he tries to sell you. And I do mean sell. He makes his money selling conspiracy theories! He even endorses and sells the absurd lying antisemitic forgery "The Protocols of Zion" on his website (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=texe+marrs+protocols+zion&spell=1)! Here's how he hawks his perverse product (red highlights added):



That's just not right. The "Protocols" are a forgery designed and used to justify the hatred and murder of innocent Jews.

Richard

Thanks for the wecome,

Uh, I really don't like to deal the "Protocols' as the Jews have mustered all of their considerable clout, i.e.,financial, political, and otherwise to get this labeled as a "forgery" (A forgery of what comes to mind?) However, I don't really deal with the Protocols because the Jews have so conditioned the minds of most people that it's an outrageous fake. Like the famed historian Nesta Webster we can arrive at the same conclusions the Protocols do without ever referring to them. There are quite a few stages one goes through when dealing with the Protocols, first is what an absurd hoax, then as you learn more you say well, it's probably a hoax, but still it seems to be true, i.e, what was outlined in the Protocols seems to be taking place. Then you get to a stage where you think they're probably authentic, but the Jewish leadership have expended so much time, money and effort to getting people to believe they're a hoax that most people don't want to deal with it. So, I think Texe would've done better to ignore the Protocols.

In the last chapter of Nesta Webster's classic: Secret Societies: and Subversive Movements (available at the aforementioned bookclub,btw) she states on page 371 last paragraph:
"But it is in the Cabala (this is spelled a dozen different ways, btw,Ron), still more than in the Talmud, that the Judaic dream of world-domination recurs with the greatest persistence. The Zohar indeed refers to this as a
fait accompli, explaining that "the Feast of Tabernacles is the period when Israel triumphs over the other people of the world; that is why during this feast we seize the Loulab [branches of trees tied together] and carry it as a trophy to show that we have conquered all the other peoples known as 'populace' and that we dominate them".

So, with or without the 'Protocols' we can see they intend to dominate us all. A recent issue of Vanity Fair said that 53 of the 100 most important people in America were Jews! Pretty good considering they're only 2% of the population! And 7 out of 10 billionaires are Jews. (so are 7 out of 10 abortion doctors, btw).
They control 95% of the media, they control all of the networks, even the "conservative" Rupert Murdock is Jewish (his mother was a Jew)
They control the Federal Reserve System, which isn't federal, there's no reserve, and it's not a system!

I don't hate the Jews it wouldn't matter to me if my mother were a Jew, it's not the race it's that abominable system of the Talmud and the Kabballah that's the culprit here. When they take the mud out of the Talmud and the black magic out of the Kabballah (Albert Pike, Freemason and Luciferian, said the Jewish Kabballah was the source of their beliefs,as did Aleister Crowley, satanist and at one time head of the OTO whch is sort of a superoccult Masonic finishing school. Their Talmud says Our Lord and Saviour is in hell suffering in boiling excrement! And we're all cattle. The Talmud's bottom line is that it worships the Jewish race itself as God! Well, it's been a long time since I've had a good rant.

Oh, after quoting their celebration of the Feast of Tabernacles as they're triumphing over all other peoples I'm reminded of watching the 700 Club once a few years ago and there was ol' Pat telling us that they celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles every year on the 700 Club. My question is Why?

Well, with his support of Rudy Guiliani I guess he's pretty much let us know that support for Israel is more important than saving our souls.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Thanks for the wecome,

Uh, I really don't like to deal the "Protocols' as the Jews have mustered all of their considerable clout, i.e.,financial, political, and otherwise to get this labeled as a "forgery" (A forgery of what comes to mind?)

Good morning Trap,

The funny thing about conspiracy theorists is that they typically take lack of proof for their theory as proof of how powerful the conspirators really are! :lol:

As for the meaning of "forgery" - you should know (considering how much you have studied conspiracies) its definition! Here is what Websters says:

1: archaic: invention
2: something forged
3: an act of forging; especially : the crime of falsely and fraudulently making or altering a document (as a check)

When I say that the Protocols are a forgery, I am using that word in its precise dictionary sense to state that they were fake. They were invented by some Jew-hater and falsely attributed to "the elders of Zion."

If you have any evidence to the contrary, please post it. If not, please admit that you are making an unfounded accusation.


However, I don't really deal with the Protocols because the Jews have so conditioned the minds of most people that it's an outrageous fake.

It always amazes me how the conspiracy theorists seem to deify the Jews, giving all power on earth, if not in heaven.


Like the famed historian Nesta Webster we can arrive at the same conclusions the Protocols do without ever referring to them. There are quite a few stages one goes through when dealing with the Protocols, first is what an absurd hoax, then as you learn more you say well, it's probably a hoax, but still it seems to be true, i.e, what was outlined in the Protocols seems to be taking place. Then you get to a stage where you think they're probably authentic, but the Jewish leadership have expended so much time, money and effort to getting people to believe they're a hoax that most people don't want to deal with it. So, I think Texe would've done better to ignore the Protocols.

If the Protocols are athentic, then why did the All Powerful Jews let them out? It must be part of their plot, correct?

But then why did they need to waste their energy in all this "damage control" convincing people that they were fakes? That seems pretty stupid! :doh:

So how do folks that stupid manage to run a worldwide conspiracy?


In the last chapter of Nesta Webster's classic: Secret Societies: and Subversive Movements (available at the aforementioned bookclub,btw) she states on page 371 last paragraph:
"But it is in the Cabala (this is spelled a dozen different ways, btw,Ron), still more than in the Talmud, that the Judaic dream of world-domination recurs with the greatest persistence. The Zohar indeed refers to this as a
fait accompli, explaining that "the Feast of Tabernacles is the period when Israel triumphs over the other people of the world; that is why during this feast we seize the Loulab [branches of trees tied together] and carry it as a trophy to show that we have conquered all the other peoples known as 'populace' and that we dominate them".

So, with or without the 'Protocols' we can see they intend to dominate us all.

Sure, and where did they get that idea? Oh .. I don't know .... some big fact conspiracy book called "The Holy Bible" maybe? The Old Testament has many promises that can be interpreted as prophetic of a future worldwide domination by the Jews. Chirstians who hold to that view are called Millennialists. They believe that the Jews are destined to rule the world with Jesus Christ as their literal king in Jerusalem. I don't think they are correct. John Hagee's wholesale adoption of that view is part of what led to his downfall I believe.

But none of that proves a conspiracy theory. Its all a bunch of hot air.


A recent issue of Vanity Fair said that 53 of the 100 most important people in America were Jews! Pretty good considering they're only 2% of the population! And 7 out of 10 billionaires are Jews. (so are 7 out of 10 abortion doctors, btw).
Yes, the Jews are amazing are they not? Their brains and abilities are so far above the average people group it almost could make you think that God really did bless them, just like the Bible says!

And a big part of their strenghth is their extremely tight knit social structure. Do you remember the key to success in this world? Its not "what you know" its "who you know." I personally think that is one of the primary reasons for their extraordinary success.


They control 95% of the media, they control all of the networks, even the "conservative" Rupert Murdock is Jewish (his mother was a Jew)
They control the Federal Reserve System, which isn't federal, there's no reserve, and it's not a system!

If they really controled the media, you wouldn't know about them!

This is the problem with conspiracy theories - they are simply incohorent. You can not claim "they control everything" and that you found this out through "their media."


I don't hate the Jews it wouldn't matter to me if my mother were a Jew, it's not the race it's that abominable system of the Talmud and the Kabballah that's the culprit here. When they take the mud out of the Talmud and the black magic out of the Kabballah (Albert Pike, Freemason and Luciferian, said the Jewish Kabballah was the source of their beliefs,as did Aleister Crowley, satanist and at one time head of the OTO whch is sort of a superoccult Masonic finishing school. Their Talmud says Our Lord and Saviour is in hell suffering in boiling excrement! And we're all cattle. The Talmud's bottom line is that it worships the Jewish race itself as God! Well, it's been a long time since I've had a good rant.
I agree completely that occult corruption is found in the Talmud and the Kabballah. But that doesn't make those subjects "the culprit." Satanists like Aleister Crowley also drew much of his material directly from the Holy Bible! He called himself "The Beast 666." But that does not impugn the Bible, so you argumetn is fallacious.


Oh, after quoting their celebration of the Feast of Tabernacles as they're triumphing over all other peoples I'm reminded of watching the 700 Club once a few years ago and there was ol' Pat telling us that they celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles every year on the 700 Club. My question is Why?

Well, with his support of Rudy Guiliani I guess he's pretty much let us know that support for Israel is more important than saving our souls.
Why did Pat do that? Who knows, but you have no proof of any conspiracy, and NO - your lack of proof does not itself constitute proof of how powerful is their conspiracy!

Richard

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Sigh, the greatest weapon to blind and silence Christians ever created was the invention of the term "anti-semitic". As Father Denis Fahey stated:"What is meant by the term? Anti-Semitism is the word used by the Jews to designate any form of opposition to themselves, and they strive persistently to associate irrationality and want of balance with the term. They evidently want the world to believe that anyone who opposes Jewish pretensions is more or less mentally deranged." My advice to all Christians is to be brave enough to take the anti-semitic label as it's a false one and just a weapon to keep us blind and inert.

I understand that the term "anti-semitic" can be misused to silence legitimate criticism, but the fact that some people abuse the term does imply that it has no valid use. I've seen plenty of genuine raging wacko freaks blaming the Jews for everything from the last ice age to the pimple on their nose. It is a legitimate term.


Now as far as Schindler's List. You do realize that this was a propaganda vehicle by Steven Speilberg, right? I think Michael Hoffman points out in his book: Judaism's Strange Gods that here too there was a little sleight of hand going on. In one scene a (I haven't seen it and don't intend to) a Jew (rabbi?) says that in their Talmud it says that if you save one life it's as if you've saved the whole world." Uh no, the Talmud says that if you save one JEWISH life it's as if you've saved the whole world. Gentiles are cattle, goyim, etc.
I think you have misrepresented the truth here. It's true that the Talmud does sometimes (I don't know how often, do you have the stats?) refer to Gentiles as dogs and all that, but the actual passage you quoted was taken out of context and its meaning perverted to say exactly the opposite of what was meant. Here is the quote from the Babyonian Talmud (Sanhedrin fol 37 (http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_37.html#PARTb)) from the anti-Jew site called http://www.come-and-hear.com:


KNOW THEN THAT CAPITAL CASES ARE NOT LIKE MONETARY CASES. IN CIVIL SUITS, ONE CAN MAKE MONETARY RESTITUTION35 AND THEREBY EFFECT HIS ATONEMENT; BUT IN CAPITAL CASES HE IS HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS BLOOD [sc. THE ACCUSED'S] AND THE BLOOD OF HIS [POTENTIAL] DESCENDANTS UNTIL THE END OF TIME,36 FOR THUS WE FIND IN THE CASE OF CAIN, WHO KILLED HIS BROTHER, THAT IT IS WRITTEN: THE BLOODS OF THY BROTHER CRY UNTO ME:37 NOT THE BLOOD OF THY BROTHER, BUT THE BLOODS OF THY BROTHER, IS SAID — i.e., HIS BLOOD AND THE BLOOD OF HIS [POTENTIAL] DESCENDANTS. (ALTERNATIVELY, THE BLOODS OF THY BROTHER, TEACHES THAT HIS BLOOD WAS SPLASHED OVER TREES AND STONES.)38 FOR THIS REASON WAS MAN CREATED ALONE, TO TEACH THEE THAT WHOSOEVER DESTROYS A SINGLE SOUL OF ISRAEL,39 SCRIPTURE IMPUTES [GUILT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD DESTROYED A COMPLETE WORLD; AND WHOSOEVER PRESERVES A SINGLE SOUL OF ISRAEL, SCRIPTURE ASCRIBES [MERIT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD PRESERVED A COMPLETE WORLD.40 FURTHERMORE, [HE WAS CREATED ALONE] FOR THE SAKE OF PEACE AMONG MEN, THAT ONE MIGHT NOT SAY TO HIS FELLOW, 'MY FATHER WAS GREATER THAN THINE, AND THAT THE MINIM41 MIGHT NOT SAY, THERE ARE MANY RULING POWERS IN HEAVEN; AGAIN, TO PROCLAIM THE GREATNESS OF THE HOLY ONE, BLESSED BE HE: FOR IF A MAN STRIKES MANY COINS FROM ONE MOULD, THEY ALL RESEMBLE ONE ANOTHER, BUT THE SUPREME KING OF KINGS,42 THE HOLY ONE, BLESSED BE HE, FASHIONED EVERY MAN IN THE STAMP OP THE FIRST MAN, AND YET NOT ONE OF THEM RESEMBLES HIS FELLOW. THEREFORE EVERY SINGLE PERSON IS OBLIGED TO SAY: THE WORLD WAS CREATED FOR MY SAKE.43
The argument is based on the fact that the entire human race descends from Adam, and so we are all equals. The footnote number 39 says that the phrase "of Israel" is not found in all mss of the Talmud. And that makes sense because its inclusion contradicts the univeraslistic flow of the whole argument.

Note that this discussion says nothing against any Gentile. On the contrary, it speaks specifically of EVERY MAN descended of Adam.



The whole section is a discussion about the penalty for murder. The connection with blood and the descendents of Adam is extremely interesting because it harkens back to Paul's words in the Holy Bible:
Acts 17:24-27 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; 26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; 27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Oh, did you know that Steven Speilberg visited Fidel Castro in November 2002 and had dinner with him and stayed with him until the early morning hours. Speilberg stated:"They were the most important eight hours of my life." Speilberg, the man who made that movie idolized the Communist CryptoJew who terrorized, tortured, murdered and imprisoned the Christians who opposed him. Oh, how do I know Castro's a CrytoJew? He admits it himself. Look up Crypto-Judaism on Wikipedia(btw, a proJewish,proZionist outfit) and you'll see among the famous CryptoJews Castro admits there were marranos in his ancestry!
I checked out the wiki and yes, Castro claimed his ancestors were marranos. So what? That says nothing about him, or the validity of any conspiracy therory. Sure, Speilberg is a raging liberal, but that doesn't make him into an illuminati conspiracist!


Gosh, it's been over fifteen years now since I became aware of how supremely powerful Christianity's historical foe is.

That's funny - the only "supremely powerful" Being that I know is the founder of Christianity, not its foe!

It seems to me that your focus is altogether wrong. If there is any satanic conspiracy, it looks to me like it is the creation of conspiracy theories that are designed to distract your mind away from the simple teachings of the Holy Bible, and to make you believe that satan and the Jews are "supremely powerful." I would counsel you to flee from all such theories and seek to serve the true and living God as He has commanded you in His Holy Bible.


I started by reading The Plot Against the Church which was handed out to all of the bishops before Vatican II to alert them to the Jewish Conspiracy. Apparently they didn't read it or didn't heed it. I'm still Catholic, but I'm just one-step away from a sede-vacantist position and that Vatican II was a false council.
Now this is getting interesting! I never heard of that doc, so I looked it up on the net and found a complete copy (http://catholicvoice.co.uk/pinay/) online. Here is a snippet form the intro:


The most infamous conspiracy is in progress against the Church. Her enemies are working to destroy the most holy traditions and thus to introduce dangerous and evil-intended reforms, such as those Calvin, Zwingli and other false teachers once attempted.
Humm .. the evil reformers? And you are tending towards sede-vacantist position? Who do you believe was the last valid "Pope?"

Anyway, I now am beginning to see how deep and convoluted your theories go. I thought you were just another guy from "Marrs" now I see you admire the raging Jew-and-Catholic-bashing Marrs even as you remain in the RCC? Curiouser and curiouser! Quite a rabit hole we have here.


By the way, if you go to iamthewitness.com The first tape I would advise you to listen to would be Benjamin Freedman's, who was a high-ranking Jew himself, i.e., he was hobnobbing with Bernard Baruch, etc. That'll curl your hair. I would also advise you to find the mp3 wherein Darryl Bradford Smith interviews Rev. Ted Pike on the Scofield Bible as you learn a lot about the Scofield Bible's influence on Christian Zionism you'll also find out that Abe Foxman, a religious orthodox Jew, head of the ADL has been fighting against Creationism, fighting for homosexual rights, proabortion, etc., etc., etc.

Thanks for the link. I'll take a look...

Richard

[Trap]

Good morning Trap,

The funny thing about conspiracy theorists is that they typically take lack of proof for their theory as proof of how powerful the conspirators really are! :lol:



You're the one who brought up the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, not I
I always get suspicious when someone starts hitting me repeatedly with conspiracy theorist as if to imply a lack of mental balance when in fact all Christians are required by God to believe in at least one conspiracy theory, i.e, the one from the Bible wherein we're told Satan deceives the whole world. Which I believe is happening now. I never brought up the Protocols of Zion, you did. I knew there was a Jewish conspiracy long before I ever even heard of the Protocols of Zion, and in fact didn't spend much time looking at them. I have from my Catholic sources, Nesta Webster, etc., more than necessary. But if required to do so I could advance the rather lengthy arguments pro and con for the Protocols. This isn't brain surgery though it's all rather simple once the facts are laid out in front of us. The most amazing thing to me was that most of the knowledge necessary should be readily available, if not in the main stream media, at least in the Christian bookstores, but no, even they have been taken over for the most part by authors such as Hagee and Pat Robertson, who by the way in his book the Millennium, had a dot
within a circle on every single page which was a sign of the Illuminati. No, I had to dig deep from old sources to still get information that used to be known, but hard to get to now. I know that even Catholic publishers are being bought up by Jewish backers. I hesitate to mention these things as my memory isn't sharp enough to give examples and you'll demand proof, I'm sure, but I believe, for example, Sheed & Ward an old Catholic publishing company was bought up by Jewish interests.

As for the meaning of "forgery" - you should know (considering how much you have studied conspiracies) its definition! Here is what Websters says:

1: archaic: invention
2: something forged
3: an act of forging; especially : the crime of falsely and fraudulently making or altering a document (as a check)


When I say that the Protocols are a forgery, I am using that word in its precise dictionary sense to state that they were fake. They were invented by some Jew-hater and falsely attributed to "the elders of Zion."

If you have any evidence to the contrary, please post it. If not, please admit that you are making an unfounded accusation.

It always amazes me how the conspiracy theorists seem to deify the Jews, giving all power on earth, if not in heaven.

Ah, when I was growing up I always wondered why people would hate the Jews? It's only by digging deep into our Christian roots and history that has been hidden from most of us does the answer emerge. Perhaps the Christians living in Russia were not too enamored of the Jews when they took over their country. Perhaps because of the fact that they're taught we gentiles are beasts, cattle, goyim, etc. or the fact that in their Talmud it refers to Mary as a whore, and Our Lord as a sorcerer, etc., etc.

Conspiracy theorists deify the Jews? Hah, I recall shortly after my conversion over 15 years ago when there was a discussion on the national boards (this was before the internet) and the question of the Jews came up and I having recently read The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich thought I was so wise when I offered, I thought wisely at the time, that the Germans thought two percent of their population was responsible for all of their problems! Having listened to Benjamin Freedman's talk on how we got into WWI, WWII and are fighting a war for Israel right now (even though he gave this talk back in '62) He states that when the Jews were thrown out of Russia after their first abortive, unsuccessful attempt at a Communist revolution they swarmed into Germany and took control of its press and finances even though they were only about 1/2 of ONE percent! Oh yes, they do have great organizing talents and they're wizards with money, but I believe they've acquired those talents assiduously as prerequisites for their perceived destiny. Oh, by the way, Benjamin Freedman said when he gave that talk
over 40 years ago now that the Zionist Jews had complete control of our
government then!



If the Protocols are athentic, then why did the All Powerful Jews let them out? It must be part of their plot, correct?

But then why did they need to waste their energy in all this "damage control" convincing people that they were fakes? That seems pretty stupid! :doh:

So how do folks that stupid manage to run a worldwide conspiracy?

As the Protocols have never really been a required part of my knowledge that there is a Jewish conspiracy I don't recall the particulars on this. If you insist, however, I'll dig up the arguments pro and con. And if the "all powerful Jews let them out" I rather doubt they'd do this on purpose, don't you? Perhaps it was a case similar to the messenger who was carrying plans for the Illumunist lodges who was struck down by lightning and they fell into the hands of Bavarian officials. I guess it would be stupid if they put them out and then denied them.



Sure, and where did they get that idea? Oh .. I don't know .... some big fact conspiracy book called "The Holy Bible" maybe? The Old Testament has many promises that can be interpreted as prophetic of a future worldwide domination by the Jews. Chirstians who hold to that view are called Millennialists. They believe that the Jews are destined to rule the world with Jesus Christ as their literal king in Jerusalem. I don't think they are correct. John Hagee's wholesale adoption of that view is part of what led to his downfall I believe.

You seem to be missing or not buying what I've been telling you, i.,e., the Jews of today do not follow or believe in Old Testament but their Holy Books are the Talmud and the Kabballah which are mostly racist, supremacist rantings breaking down the Old Testament to suit their purposes. Our Lord was trying to tell us this 2,000 years ago before they'd put their blasphemies into the Babylonian Talmud!


But none of that proves a conspiracy theory. Its all a bunch of hot air. If there's no conspiracy how come so few Christians are aware that the Russian revolution, was a Jewish operation from beginning to end., i.e, engineered by Jews from around the world such as Trotsky (real name Bronstein another point here, if there's no conspiracy why did most of the Jews change their names? To deceive us simple goyim, that's why), bankrolled by Jewish financiers such as Jacob Schiff, etc. How come Christians don't know that the five premier leaders of the Soviet Union were all Jews? Even Lenin is now admitted to have been a Jew! How come the average Christian doesn't know what their Talmud teaches! Do you think the average American, even at this late stage, would vote for a Lieberman (orthodox Jew) for President or even consider it if they knew what their Talmud teaches about Our Lord and Mary, that it teaches they are to rule over us all and that Gentiles are beasts, cattle., etc. I don't think so. This is a conspiracy by omission, of silence. We make a great deal of electing a Catholic such as Kennedy, but
a Talmudic Jew we're going to give a free pass to!



Yes, the Jews are amazing are they not? Their brains and abilities are so far above the average people group it almost could make you think that God really did bless them, just like the Bible says!

Think I recall that the Jews average score on I.Q. tests is 3 to 5 point higher than average, and that could easily be accounted for by the fact that they're taught from infancy that education is power and they excel if for no other reason that that.


And a big part of their strenghth is their extremely tight knit social structure. Do you remember the key to success in this world? Its not "what you know" its "who you know." I personally think that is one of the primary reasons for their extraordinary success.

Here I agree with you big-time and I truly wouldn't mind their rise to the top in many fields except I know that they're using their positions to bring about the collapse of Christian civilization so they can rule us all. And that involves the pushing of the smut that comes out of Hollywood (it's funny if we say they run Hollywood we're anti-semites, but in their own papers they brag about this) They're using their posts in government to bring down the last vestiges of Christian government and erect a Talmudic monstrosity that is just a proxy for the insane rulers of Israel who say they'll take out the whole world if they don't get their way. You've heard of the Samson response, right?


If they really controled the media, you wouldn't know about them!

I really can't believe you said that. Do you realize how hard it is to come by the knowledge I have? The average person lives and dies without having a clue as to what's really occurring right now. That's how much control they DO have! I was DEEP into my faith and praying for wisdom before sources started opening up for me. I'm sure my father died and his father died not having the slightest inkling of what I know. And yet, if the Christian Churches were HEALTHY what I know would be common knowledge. Before the internet the only avenue for awakening were hard to find book sources and word of mouth. The internet has temporarily expanded this knowledge exponentially and they're sure to shut down sources of this knowledge by eradicating them as 'dangerous to the government'. When the truth becomes dangerous to the government I think the government IS the DANGER! Don't you?


This is the problem with conspiracy theories - they are simply incohorent. You can not claim "they control everything" and that you found this out through "their media."

I never stated they control EVERYTHING! They have nearly complete control of the MASS MEDIA now, but they haven't always. It's well-known by those who've studied this how they've bought up all the Newspapers, Networks, etc. After the internet closes down the avenues of knowledge will again be restricted to those who can still get their hands on the books that have the true Christian knowledge of what's going on. George Orwell's 1984. By the way, the book of Daniel says in the endtimes only those with wisdom will know what's really going on and they're not going to get that wisdom from the mainstream media.


I agree completely that occult corruption is found in the Talmud and the Kabballah. But that doesn't make those subjects "the culprit." Satanists like Aleister Crowley also drew much of his material directly from the Holy Bible! He called himself "The Beast 666." But that does not impugn the Bible, so you argumetn is fallacious.

I think your logic just went off the track here you agreed with me that there's occult corruption in the Talmud and the Kabballah but then you seem to want to whitewash that by stating that they also quote the Bible. I didn't say Albert Pike, Luciferian and holder of three world Masonic titles "quoted" the Kabballah I said that he stated it was the source for all of their Masonic beliefs! I've never heard of Aleister Crowley quoting the Bible, but that wouldn't suprise me. But he didn't say it was the source for the beliefs of the OTO which I believe he did about the Kabballah. So your logic is what's lacking here. Oh by the way, Blood on the Altar by Craig Heimbichner is a pretty good book on the OTO


Why did Pat do that? Who knows, but you have no proof of any conspiracy, and NO - your lack of proof does not itself constitute proof of how powerful is their conspiracy!

Richard

I certainly can't say for sure why Pat Robertson did that, but you don't have to be a Mensa member to figure somethings seriously wrong here when he''s backing a man who's proabortion, pro-homosexual (marches in the homosexual parades) reputed to be bi-sexual, etc., etc. The only thing one can see he has going for him is that he's 100% pro-Israel.

Perhaps you can break it down for me better. Anyway, I've found these long drawn out discussions unproductive. I'm going to spend most of my time directing people to places on the Net where they can get up to speed quickly. Once your eyes are opened to it they're open! I think, in fact, my brother's eyes finally opened and he now realizes that Yes, Virginia, there really is a conspiracy!

Oh by the way, I thought you did a great job on breaking down the incredible heresies in Hagee's book, but I knew he was a phony over ten years ago.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

You're the one who brought up the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, not I.
True, but you brought up all the conspiracy therories, and you mentioned Texe Marrs as a source you rely upon, and Texe Marrs has been selling the conspiracy theory garbage for many years. So I pick the most obvious evidence of his error to make it easy for everyone to see.

And besides, you do believe that the Protocols are legit, so how did I err?

But I am sorry I come across too strong. I didn't mean to offend. I'll do my best to speak more respectfully from now on.


I always get suspicious when someone starts hitting me repeatedly with conspiracy theorist as if to imply a lack of mental balance when in fact all Christians are required by God to believe in at least one conspiracy theory, i.e, the one from the Bible wherein we're told Satan deceives the whole world.

That's not at all the same as the conspiracy theories that you suggest about Jewish groups and illuminati controlling the world.


Which I believe is happening now.

Yes, I know you believe it. And you know that I do not. But if you want to present real evidence that will stand up under scutiny, please do! I am happy to evaluate whatever you believe. I hope to learn from every person.


I never brought up the Protocols of Zion, you did. I knew there was a Jewish conspiracy long before I ever even heard of the Protocols of Zion, and in fact didn't spend much time looking at them. I have from my Catholic sources, Nesta Webster, etc., more than necessary. But if required to do so I could advance the rather lengthy arguments pro and con for the Protocols. This isn't brain surgery though it's all rather simple once the facts are laid out in front of us. The most amazing thing to me was that most of the knowledge necessary should be readily available, if not in the main stream media, at least in the Christian bookstores, but no, even they have been taken over for the most part by authors such as Hagee and Pat Robertson, who by the way in his book the Millennium, had a dot within a circle on every single page which was a sign of the Illuminati.

The circle with a dot is not necessarily a sign of the Illuminati. Indeed, the whole idea of the "Illuminati" as having any real power and controling influence in the world seems like bad fiction to me. The thing that conspiracy theorests don't seem to understand is that weak humans and human orginazations can accomplish absolutely NOTHING if God does not will it. They can try to make conspiracies and they will fail utterly with the slightest thought from the Mind of God. As Christians we know that "Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it:" - if that is true for the servants of God, how much more for His enemies?

And this is the fundamental error of conspiracy theories as I see it - they believe in a "supremely powerful" group of humans in cahoots with the devil, which drags their heart and mind away from the worship of the one and only Supreme Power in the Universe, the Lord God Almighty! The devil is nothing. The conspirators are nothing. Christ is everything. And that's all there is to it.


No, I had to dig deep from old sources to still get information that used to be known, but hard to get to now. I know that even Catholic publishers are being bought up by Jewish backers. I hesitate to mention these things as my memory isn't sharp enough to give examples and you'll demand proof, I'm sure, but I believe, for example, Sheed & Ward an old Catholic publishing company was bought up by Jewish interests.

Yes, I am pretty demanding when it comes to "proof" - but that's a good thing, right? You wouldn't want me to be a fool would you? To believe every rumor in this mad insane crazy rumor-filled world of ours?


As for the meaning of "forgery" - you should know (considering how much you have studied conspiracies) its definition! Here is what Websters says:

1: archaic: invention
2: something forged
3: an act of forging; especially : the crime of falsely and fraudulently making or altering a document (as a check)

Ah, when I was growing up I always wondered why people would hate the Jews? It's only by digging deep into our Christian roots and history that has been hidden from most of us does the answer emerge. Perhaps the Christians living in Russia were not too enamored of the Jews when they took over their country. Perhaps because of the fact that they're taught we gentiles are beasts, cattle, goyim, etc. or the fact that in their Talmud it refers to Mary as a whore, and Our Lord as a sorcerer, etc., etc.

Granted, Jews and Christians have been at war with each other since the Jews crucified Christ. And what is the first causualty of war? THE TRUTH! That's why its hard to sort out. Folks on both sides are willing to lie and deceive for their cause. This is the first lesson of history.


Conspiracy theorists deify the Jews? Hah, I recall shortly after my conversion over 15 years ago when there was a discussion on the national boards (this was before the internet) and the question of the Jews came up and I having recently read The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich thought I was so wise when I offered, I thought wisely at the time, that the Germans thought two percent of their population was responsible for all of their problems! Having listened to Benjamin Freedman's talk on how we got into WWI, WWII and are fighting a war for Israel right now (even though he gave this talk back in '62) He states that when the Jews were thrown out of Russia after their first abortive, unsuccessful attempt at a Communist revolution they swarmed into Germany and took control of its press and finances even though they were only about 1/2 of ONE percent! Oh yes, they do have great organizing talents and they're wizards with money, but I believe they've acquired those talents assiduously as prerequisites for their perceived destiny. Oh, by the way, Benjamin Freedman said when he gave that talk over 40 years ago now that the Zionist Jews had complete control of our
government then!
And what makes Freedman an authority? Does he offer any real evidence that will withstand scrutiny?



If the Protocols are athentic, then why did the All Powerful Jews let them out? It must be part of their plot, correct?

But then why did they need to waste their energy in all this "damage control" convincing people that they were fakes? That seems pretty stupid! :doh:

So how do folks that stupid manage to run a worldwide conspiracy?
As the Protocols have never really been a required part of my knowledge that there is a Jewish conspiracy I don't recall the particulars on this. If you insist, however, I'll dig up the arguments pro and con. And if the "all powerful Jews let them out" I rather doubt they'd do this on purpose, don't you? Perhaps it was a case similar to the messenger who was carrying plans for the Illumunist lodges who was struck down by lightning and they fell into the hands of Bavarian officials. I guess it would be stupid if they put them out and then denied them.

Struck down by lightning sounds like an act of God, which should remind us that our attention should be on Him, not on earthly conspiracy theories.



Sure, and where did they get that idea? Oh .. I don't know .... some big fact conspiracy book called "The Holy Bible" maybe? The Old Testament has many promises that can be interpreted as prophetic of a future worldwide domination by the Jews. Chirstians who hold to that view are called Millennialists. They believe that the Jews are destined to rule the world with Jesus Christ as their literal king in Jerusalem. I don't think they are correct. John Hagee's wholesale adoption of that view is part of what led to his downfall I believe.
You seem to be missing or not buying what I've been telling you, i.,e., the Jews of today do not follow or believe in Old Testament but their Holy Books are the Talmud and the Kabballah which are mostly racist, supremacist rantings breaking down the Old Testament to suit their purposes. Our Lord was trying to tell us this 2,000 years ago before they'd put their blasphemies into the Babylonian Talmud!

I agree that the Talmud has some crazy, ungodly stuff in it! But it is wrong to suggest that they "don't believe" in the OT Bible as well as the Talmud and Kabballah. And for that matter, who is the "they" and how do you know what "they" believe? My point was there are plenty of OT Bible verses to give them the idea of world supremacy. Do you agree?


If there's no conspiracy how come so few Christians are aware that the Russian revolution, was a Jewish operation from beginning to end., i.e, engineered by Jews from around the world such as Trotsky (real name Bronstein another point here, if there's no conspiracy why did most of the Jews change their names?

Its common knowledge that there were lots of Jews involved in liberal/leftist politics. So what? It doesn't prove a worldwide conspiracy on the order that you are presenting.


To deceive us simple goyim, that's why), bankrolled by Jewish financiers such as Jacob Schiff, etc. How come Christians don't know that the five premier leaders of the Soviet Union were all Jews? Even Lenin is now admitted to have been a Jew!

Why don't we know that? Maybe because we are not racist! Maybe because our eyes are on preaching the Gospel to the Jews and Gentiles alike, and maybe because we know that our God is the Lord of History and so we busy ourselves with our father's business as Chirst our Lord taught us when He was twelve years old (Luke 2:49).

And maybe its because the conspiracy theories never hold up under close scrutiny.


How come the average Christian doesn't know what their Talmud teaches! Do you think the average American, even at this late stage, would vote for a Lieberman (orthodox Jew) for President or even consider it if they knew what their Talmud teaches about Our Lord and Mary, that it teaches they are to rule over us all and that Gentiles are beasts, cattle., etc. I don't think so. This is a conspiracy by omission, of silence. We make a great deal of electing a Catholic such as Kennedy, but
a Talmudic Jew we're going to give a free pass to!

Well, a lot of people might understand that the Talmud represents a segment of Judaism, and that the statements agaist the Lord and His Mother were due to the war between Christians and Jews, in which both sides abused the other. So maybe they would seek reconcilation and peace (without accepting the rot in the Talmud, of course!).


Think I recall that the Jews average score on I.Q. tests is 3 to 5 point higher than average, and that could easily be accounted for by the fact that they're taught from infancy that education is power and they excel if for no other reason that that.

Yeah ... that makes sense to me. They are the people of the Book. And the Hebrew language was designed by God, so folks who learn it from youth have many advantages. Their language was designed by the Creator, and so it is integrated with reality in a unique way.



And a big part of their strenghth is their extremely tight knit social structure. Do you remember the key to success in this world? Its not "what you know" its "who you know." I personally think that is one of the primary reasons for their extraordinary success.
Here I agree with you big-time and I truly wouldn't mind their rise to the top in many fields except I know that they're using their positions to bring about the collapse of Christian civilization so they can rule us all. And that involves the pushing of the smut that comes out of Hollywood (it's funny if we say they run Hollywood we're anti-semites, but in their own papers they brag about this) They're using their posts in government to bring down the last vestiges of Christian government and erect a Talmudic monstrosity that is just a proxy for the insane rulers of Israel who say they'll take out the whole world if they don't get their way. You've heard of the Samson response, right?
All that "blaming the Jews" seems to me very similar to a person who blames all their personal sin on demons. It seems to ignore the real relation between problems and the origin. Smut does not need to be "pushed by the Jews" it already exists in the hearts of men and is constantly trying to find a way out into the world!



If they really controled the media, you wouldn't know about them!
I really can't believe you said that. Do you realize how hard it is to come by the knowledge I have?

Is it knowledge or is it rumor, speculation, and imagination?

We can settle this question quickly and easily. All you need to do is post your three best simple and direct proofs of the conspiracy. I then will evaluate the evidence.


The average person lives and dies without having a clue as to what's really occurring right now. That's how much control they DO have! I was DEEP into my faith and praying for wisdom before sources started opening up for me. I'm sure my father died and his father died not having the slightest inkling of what I know. And yet, if the Christian Churches were HEALTHY what I know would be common knowledge. Before the internet the only avenue for awakening were hard to find book sources and word of mouth. The internet has temporarily expanded this knowledge exponentially and they're sure to shut down sources of this knowledge by eradicating them as 'dangerous to the government'. When the truth becomes dangerous to the government I think the government IS the DANGER! Don't you?

Yes, I agree that the govenment poses many threats. But then, they always have! In the middle ages you couldn't even own a Bible. We are now living in the best of times, ever in the history of the world (since the fall anyway). There is more freedom and less suffering in the USA and other westernized countries than ever at any time in History.

The fact that folks fail to realize how extraordinarily wonderful and easy and blessed and luxurious our current life is makes me wonder if anyone has any brains at all. The conspiracy theories constantly hype up the end of the world, the mark of the beast, Amageddon, Y2K, we're all gonna die the sky is faaaaaaaaaaaallllllliiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnngggggg ! Run chicken little!

Please excuse the plain talk - but I really believe that conspiracy theories are delusional. You can walk out your door and get anything you want with almost zero thread to your personal safety, and all you can talk about is some secret society that is ruling the world? It just doesn't fit.



I agree completely that occult corruption is found in the Talmud and the Kabballah. But that doesn't make those subjects "the culprit." Satanists like Aleister Crowley also drew much of his material directly from the Holy Bible! He called himself "The Beast 666." But that does not impugn the Bible, so you argumetn is fallacious.
I think your logic just went off the track here you agreed with me that there's occult corruption in the Talmud and the Kabballah but then you seem to want to whitewash that by stating that they also quote the Bible. I didn't say Albert Pike, Luciferian and holder of three world Masonic titles "quoted" the Kabballah I said that he stated it was the source for all of their Masonic beliefs! I've never heard of Aleister Crowley quoting the Bible, but that wouldn't suprise me. But he didn't say it was the source for the beliefs of the OTO which I believe he did about the Kabballah. So your logic is what's lacking here. Oh by the way, Blood on the Altar by Craig Heimbichner is a pretty good book on the OTO

I certainly wasn't trying to "whitewash" the occult rot in the Talmud and Kabballah! My point was that you can not argue from the fact that some occultist like a certain book (be it talmud, Zohar, or the Bible) to impugn the book they like. The logic doesn't follow.

As for a book on the OTO - I've read enough of that monstrously perverse system to know all I'll ever need to know.


I certainly can't say for sure why Pat Robertson did that, but you don't have to be a Mensa member to figure somethings seriously wrong here when he''s backing a man who's proabortion, pro-homosexual (marches in the homosexual parades) reputed to be bi-sexual, etc., etc. The only thing one can see he has going for him is that he's 100% pro-Israel.

Again, we agree! There is certainly "something wrong" with Pat Robertson, but I don't link it with any conspiracies. The thing that bothers me is his "word of knowledge" when he predicts the next disaster in the USA from the recent headlines and then passes it off as a "word from the Lord." That is a problem because he is usually wrong, and that destroys people's faith which is he opposite of what a man of God is supposed to be doing.


Perhaps you can break it down for me better. Anyway, I've found these long drawn out discussions unproductive. I'm going to spend most of my time directing people to places on the Net where they can get up to speed quickly. Once your eyes are opened to it they're open! I think, in fact, my brother's eyes finally opened and he now realizes that Yes, Virginia, there really is a conspiracy!

Yeah, I agree. We differ on our basic presuppositions I guess, and also on the "evidence" we believe is valid.


Oh by the way, I thought you did a great job on breaking down the incredible heresies in Hagee's book, but I knew he was a phony over ten years ago.
Thanks! I also knew long ago that Hagee was a very bad teacher, but he was pretty crafty in hiding it, which would have made an expose ineffective because people are so deluded they won't believe anything you tell them unless you can present it in three sentences printed in NEON RED.

But I'm glad we got a chance to chat. You are a reasonable person, Trap, though obviously we disagree on this issue. Thanks for taking time to share you point of view.

God bless!

Richard

PS: Long posts are a pain to answer, and most folks probably don't read them anyway. But if you want to discuss something along these lines, that's fine - just pick one small point and I'll resond to that. It makes for a much quicker response, and others can join in, and it saves lots of time. (This post took an hour to compose!)

[kathryn]

Hey Trap...Have you ever read the book, "Struggle For The Birthright", by Dr. Stephen Jones? You can read it on-line at :
http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/Birthright/Default.htm
He teaches pretty extensively about the good and evil figs of Judah and how Esau was the first "Zionist".(and comes to some very interesting conclusions about the modern state of "Israel".) I found his teaching to be quite shocking at first (I am jewish by birth) but so far anyway, I can't fault him scripturally. In my opinion, he is one of the most balanced teachers I have ever read.
He uses nothing BUT Jewish sources(their history books/encyclopedias, their historians,as well as all of the autobiographies of the founders of the modern state of Israel (and scripture of course!) in his teaching of the Jews throughout history. This impressed me very much...and was extremely important to me, as Jewish, in accepting what he was saying (not to mention I couldn't disassemble what he was saying, through scripture:D)
There is so much blindness and downright ignorance in Christendom, regarding the Jews and Judaism, the identity of the modern nation of "Israel" etc.....and the way through to clarity has become an emotional mine field.
The good and evil fig trees of Judah, mentioned in Jer. 24 1-10 were known by the Lord , who mentions them in Matt. 17-20 "...every good tree bears good fruit but the bad tree bears bad fruit." Much of Christendom has failed to make the distinction between the two.
Anyway Trap...I hope you'll enjoy the book. It's a good days read, but well worth it.

[Trap]

I did a google search for someone to do a review on John Hagee's book and that's how I found this site. I didn't spend much time looking at the site map or I would have noticed that you're pushing Gematria! If one enters Gematria at the Google search bar the first up is the Kabballah. So, I think I can see why you pushed my posts and replies to a side
board and labeled it as the "fringe". I've seen the technique before, but now too many people are waking up and they realize the "fringe" is really correct.

Oh, there's a lot of thing's ol' Pat has done. I imagine if I'd watched him every day I could have nice sized booklet of anomalies. Just two or three of the most blatant were, for example, his having the author of The Bible Code on there, i.e, Michael Drosnin. Interesting Pat was pushing this book although the author himself, i.e., Drosnin, said he didn't believe in God, but rather a "force" and that his beliefs sprang from the Talmud he also said that there was no mention of Jesus in the "code". Now as Christians if there's no mention of Christ in this "interpretation" why would Pat have him on there? My personal belief is that it's from the devil which is why there's no mention of Christ in there. Pat's just doing his part to get Christians into the occult with that book. (Is that what you're doing with the Gematria, Richard?)
Was watching Pat's show one day and one of his second bananas was hosting and he said, "A lot of People don't know this, but Pat's responsible for Christian Rock." Some story about how he was in Brazil and saw some Christian rock there or something and spread it up here. Yeah, well I believe it. Saw what they had in mind late night Saturdays on the TB Network. Btw, I saw Jay Sekulow there one Saturday night (TBN) doing his part by introducing a dozen or so bands. These "Christians" looked as if they'd been Christian for about ten minutes, if you catch my meaning. It was black on stage with purple lights and smoke machines. They looked as if they'd escaped from the nether regions for a few minutes to put on a concert. Yeah, good ol' Jay Sekulow. Now if I were going to destroy Christianity I doubt whether I could find a cleverer way than avoiding a frontal attack and rather just totally secularize it, and turn it into mush. I'm glad Our Lord gets the last laugh on this world-wide display of abominations. If Jay and Pat had ever gotten to the last Chapter of Revelations they'd have seen the futility of their cause.

The fact that Pat's getting so careless probably bodes dire events in the near future.

Oh, btw, I think I'd read that in Charles Murray's book The Bell Curve, which was attacked vehemently, btw, that he claimed a 115 average I.Q. for what was it, the Ashkenazi Jews? Think he came under heavy fire for saying the black's average I.Q. was 85. Oh, I have a sort of an interest in the ol' I.Q. tests cuz I had to take one in my twenties and it was high enough for Mensa, but it wasn't high enough for Mensa in my school years. Attribute the increase to a Chess addiction which develops focus, logic, planning, cause and effect and I became a voracious reader for a while and still read quite a bit. I also know that, for example, Benjamin Netanyahoo's I.Q. is reputedly 180. I know Fischer's is supposed to be in the mid 180's and Kasparovs' in the 190's and Susan Polgar's 170 (in the top ten Grandmasters's or was until recently also Jewish) They're all Jewish. Fischer, although born Jewish is now very anti-Jewish and in fact he's considered 'anti-semitic' he became that way because the Jews did him dirty. He has one antiJewish book he claims he's read a hundred times, which I acquired just to see what it was all about and it's certainly not one I would recommend. Someone of his intelligence could find a much better book to cite than that one.

Oh, you mentioned The Plot Against the Church is online! Great I recommend people to read as much of this as you can and I promise you, that whether or not you agree with it you'll learn more from this book than perhaps if you'd read every book at the local "Christian" bookstore.

The way I see it though Netanyahoo may be a high genius, but like Leopold (210) and Loeb (160) his great intelligence will be an ember in hell whilst the dullest Christian in heaven with infused knowledge and basking in the reflected intelligence of God's will shine like a supernova in comparison!

Oh another thing about Pat I didn't mention was that he was on the cover of Time Magazine in February of 1986 with this hand on his chest in an unusual position known as the Masonic symbol the 'Lion's Paw'. Anyone can see this by going to Time magazine and looking at the appropriate cover. I'm sure he must have some sort of a story for this unusual pose. But a clear case of Occam's razor applies here.

Oh, I should've mentioned one day Jay was telling the audience how as a "converted" Jew being a Christian was really being "more Jewish". I thought when I heard that, that Jay probably laughed for days at the cleverness of the doublemeaning imparted there! Showed a picture of himself and I believe his brother with their yarmulkes on.

Oh, about the rock music -- they're doing the same thing in the Catholic Church, they have to move a bit slower than, say the garbage on TBN but you can't go from Gregorian Chant to the satanic $!@$! that was on TBN overnight. They'll get there though. John Paul II said he liked rock and roll!

Oh this is my last message here for obvious reasons, but in a previous post you gave a quote from the "Plot" that implied that the book was against the "evil reformers" when in fact the main thrust of the book is its opposition to the nefarious, perfidious Jews! And if you believe in the Holy Mass you naturally would consider all the "reformers' who would remove it "evil". But there's more to it than that. For example, a good case can be made that Calvin was a crytoJew. The Jews swarmed around Luther when he started the Protestant revolt as any splitting of the Catholic Church they'd assist with all the help they could muster.