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Rose
10-04-2012, 06:34 PM
In re-reading the story of Lazarus and the rich man found only in the Gospel of Luke, some new insights became apparent that I had never noticed before.

Luke 16:19-21 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.



In the first few verses we have the description of the rich man and the beggar named Lazarus. The story tells us of a rich man is clothed in expensive garments who eats extravagantly every day; while on the other hand the poor beggar is starving and full of sores, which are probably caused from leprosy. It says that the beggar is waiting for crumbs of food to fall from the rich mans table while dogs are licking his sores; quite a graphic picture of a suffering human being. Jesus chooses to relate this particular story and focuses our attention on the rich man eating sumptuously while the beggar eagerly waits for some of his crumbs, which of course garners our sympathies for the poor man and heightens our anger towards the selfish rich man. What goes unnoticed, and Jesus fails to expose, is the greater responsibility of the biblegod whom he calls his father. Whether or not the rich man is guilty of not giving of his abundance and sharing with the beggar, should in no way dismisses the fact that the beggar was a sick man in need of healing which the rich man was incapable of giving him, whereas Jesus or his father had the ability to heal this poor sick man (at least the Bible tells us he does), who had dogs licking his wounds, yet they did nothing.
Luke 16:22-26 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.



What happens next in the story is that the beggar and the rich man die. After their deaths the beggar is whisked away to heaven and the rich man sent to the torments of hell. Despite the pleas of the rich man for mercy, none is given, instead the explanation is put forth that because the rich man enjoyed good things in this life he was sentenced to the torments of hell, whereas Lazarus only received evil things in this life, so he was comforted in heaven with Abraham.


The obvious conclusions that one extracts from this parable is that those who enjoy abundance in this life and don’t share with those less fortunate are in danger of suffering in hell-fire. This completely overlooks the probable fact that the reason Lazarus was a beggar was because he was sick and couldn’t work, or shunned by his fellow Jews because of his leprosy. I’m sure this poor, sick beggar pleaded with God daily for healing, but to no avail, so no matter how much food the rich man did or did not give to Lazarus, he still would have suffered from his disease. Why would Jesus use such a parable to convey the evils of being rich and not sharing your wealth, when the finger points directly back to him in being able to heal, yet doing nothing to alleviate the suffering of a poor sick man? Also the Old Testament teaching of an “Eye for an Eye” was supposed to be rejected by Jesus in favor of forgiveness and loving your enemies, but in this example because the rich man refused to give crumbs to the beggar, Lazarus refused water to the tormented rich man. What happened to the Golden Rule of loving your neighbor as yourself? It seems to be missing from the story, in favor of focusing on being sent to hell for ones selfishness, and showing no mercy to those who ask.

May I ask where is the mercy of God in this picture that Jesus so clearly portrays?

Blog article found here (http://godandbutterfly.net/2012/10/04/lazarus-and-the-rich-man-2/).
Rose

CWH
10-05-2012, 10:10 AM
[QUOTE]In re-reading the story of Lazarus and the rich man found only in the Gospel of Luke, some new insights became apparent that I had never noticed before.

Luke 16:19-21 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.



In the first few verses we have the description of the rich man and the beggar named Lazarus. The story tells us of a rich man is clothed in expensive garments who eats extravagantly every day; while on the other hand the poor beggar is starving and full of sores, which are probably caused from leprosy. It says that the beggar is waiting for crumbs of food to fall from the rich mans table while dogs are licking his sores; quite a graphic picture of a suffering human being. Jesus chooses to relate this particular story and focuses our attention on the rich man eating sumptuously while the beggar eagerly waits for some of his crumbs, which of course garners our

sympathies for the poor man and heightens our anger towards the selfish rich man. What goes unnoticed, and Jesus fails to expose, is the greater responsibility of the biblegod whom he calls his father. Whether or not the rich man is guilty of not giving of his abundance and sharing with the beggar, should in no way dismisses the fact that the beggar was a sick man in need of healing which the rich man was incapable of giving him, whereas Jesus or his father had the ability to heal this poor sick man (at least the Bible tells us he does), who had dogs licking his wounds, yet they did nothing.

I see it in a different way, the rich man is spiritual sick who does not love God or his neighbor whereas the beggar is physically sick but loves God. It would not make much difference that even if Jesus were to heal the beggar of his sores, the sores will probably recurs again and Jesus may not be around this time to heal the sHores again. And to be fair and just, God should heal both the spiritual sick rich man and the physically sick beggar.


Luke 16:22-26 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

What happens next in the story is that the beggar and the rich man die. After their deaths the beggar is whisked away to heaven and the rich man sent to the torments of hell. Despite the pleas of the rich man for mercy, none is given, instead the explanation is put forth that because the rich man enjoyed good things in this life he was sentenced to the torments of hell, whereas Lazarus only received evil things in this life, so he was comforted in heaven with Abraham.

What happened was that the selfish unbelieving rich man died spiritually whereas the beggar, Lazarus, a faithful God fearing person died physically but faithfully.As a result, Lazarus was rewarded to heaven and the rich selfish unbelieving rich man was punished in hell.


The obvious conclusions that one extracts from this parable is that those who enjoy abundance in this life and don’t share with those less fortunate are in danger of suffering in hell-fire. This completely overlooks the probable fact that the reason Lazarus was a beggar was because he was sick and couldn’t work, or shunned by his fellow Jews because of his leprosy. I’m sure this poor, sick beggar pleaded with God daily for healing, but to no avail, so no matter how much food the rich man did or did not give to Lazarus, he still would have suffered from his disease. Why would Jesus use such a parable to convey the evils of being rich and not sharing your wealth, when the finger points directly back to him in being able to heal, yet doing nothing to alleviate the suffering of a poor sick man? Also the Old Testament teaching of an “Eye for an Eye” was supposed to be rejected by Jesus in favor of forgiveness and loving your enemies, but in this example because the rich man refused to give crumbs to the beggar, Lazarus refused water to the tormented rich man. What happened to the Golden Rule of loving your neighbor as yourself? It seems to be missing from the story, in favor of focusing on being sent to hell for ones selfishness, and showing no mercy to those who ask.
No, the conclusion is those who are selfish who enjoyed luxury on earth with no love for God and no love for his neighbor will be punished but those who are faithful in the trust of God and suffered physically will be rewarded. The rich man showed no love for God or for his neighbor whereas the beggar showed love and trust for God despite his physical suffering, who do you think deserved to be shown mercy and forgiveness by God?


May I ask where is the mercy of God in this picture that Jesus so clearly portrays?May I ask who should the mercy of God be given to in the end?.... the one who have no love for God and his neighbor or the one who loves God with all his heart soul and might? Same as who should the US government shows mercy to?.... One who hates Americans and America or the one who loves America with all his heart, soul and might?

The parable taught us to be prudent about the priority in life where death in our temporary lifetime on earth will occurs to everybody rich or poor. We are accountable for what we do in our life rich or poor. Our priority in life should not be the temporary luxury of this world but the eternal luxury in the kingdom of heaven. To achieve the eternal luxury of life in the kingdom of heaven is to forgo the luxury of this world and strive to love God with all your heart, soul and might and to love your neighbor as yourself. Remember, better to store all your treasures in heaven where moth and rust do not destroy.

May God Bless us with the luxury of life eternal in the kingdom of heaven. :pray:

Gil
10-06-2012, 10:11 AM
Howdy Rose and CWH,

Rose >

What happens next in the story is that the beggar and the rich man die. After their deaths the beggar is whisked away to heaven and the rich man sent to the torments of hell. Despite the pleas of the rich man for mercy, none is given, instead the explanation is put forth that because the rich man enjoyed good things in this life he was sentenced to the torments of hell, whereas Lazarus only received evil things in this life, so he was comforted in heaven with Abraham.


Gil > Off the wall :

A great many scholars say that Luke was the scribe and secretary of Paul, and a great deal of what is within Luke can be attributed to Paul.
Same with Mark. Mark was said to have been the scribe and secretary of Peter and much of Mark was dictated by Peter.

Rose >

The obvious conclusions that one extracts from this parable is that those who enjoy abundance in this life and don’t share with those less fortunate are in danger of suffering in hell-fire.


Gil >

Not really. It has nothing to do with being rich or poor in a worldly sense.
Even many Christians are rich or poor.

The story is about Israel/ Jewish specific as it references Abraham. It has to do with eternal life and their
coming Kingdom. ( Spiritual).

It does however carry over to the BOC .
First the Jew /Gentile and then all Flesh.

It has a different focus, and not the same as Jesus said "do these things unto others and you do them unto me."

The blessings of the Kingdom would come through the bosom of Abraham.

They, along with all things are passed down to us also who are within the BOC.

[ Their Messiah came through the loins of Abraham and Jesus Christ > Christ through the Spirit.]


It has to do with redemption, righteousness and salvation.

The rich in worldly possessions usually wore purple and fine linen garments.

The rich at the time of Jesus [ that were of the children of Israel ] tried to buy their forgiveness of sin and
their way into their coming Kingdom by putting their wealth and money into the coffers of Temple priests.

A mental gulf existed within the minds of the Children of Israel . A gulf that separated
good and evil within them. The Messiah and Satan.

The story was a reflection of the state of affairs of the House of Judah at the coming of their Messiah.
[ Although the same could be said of the dispersed Israel and the multitude of Jews of the southern house
of Judah that chose to remain in the Medio - Persia area ]

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Just a couple of verses:

Mark 10:24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

Mark 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Luke 1:53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.

Luke 6:23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward [is] great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

Luke 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.

Luke 18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Luke 12:21 So [is] he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

Luke 21:1 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.

Gil > Haven't thought about for a while, about buying and selling, but buy the truth and sell it not.
In Jerusalem with the money changers and all, the priests etc. were selling forgiveness of sins to the people,
and the people were buying it.
The rich no doubt had many more than the poor.

Beggars: Matt. 5:3

Matthew 5:3 Blessed [are] the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


4434 // ptwcov // ptochos // pto-khos' //

from // ptwssw // ptosso (to crouch, akin to 4422 and the alternate of
4098 ); TDNT - 6:885,969; adj

AV - poor 30, beggar 2, poor man 1, beggarly 1; 34

1) reduced to beggary, begging, asking alms
2) destitute of wealth, influence, position, honour
2a) lowly, afflicted, destitute of the Christian virtues and
eternal riches
2b) helpless, powerless to accomplish an end
2c) poor, needy
3) lacking in anything
3a) as respects their spirit
3a1) destitute of wealth of learning and intellectual culture
which the schools afford (men of this class most readily
give themselves up to Christ's teaching and proved
themselves fitted to lay hold of the heavenly treasure)


Matthew 5:2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,

Matthew 5:3 Blessed [are] the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:4 Blessed [are] they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed [are] the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Matthew 5:6 Blessed [are] they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Matthew 5:7 Blessed [are] the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

Matthew 5:8 Blessed [are] the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Matthew 5:9 Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Matthew 5:10 Blessed [are] they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Matthew 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Matthew 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

Matthew 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

The morality of giving to those less fortunate is another story.



Gil :pop2: