Misguided Christians!!

[culi26]

Which is the reason that most of the Christians are going astray??!

Why most of the Christian countries are facing the same problems??!

I had the occasion to travel through several Christian countries in Europe, and I have been in Australia also for a while.
It is strange that most of the inhabitants of these countries bear the cross with pride and have little in common with the teachings of Jesus. Or nothing in common!!

The problem that I have noticed in these countries is excessive immorality, homosexuality in a degree,adultery and many divorces due to this phenomenon!!!

Five or six years ago a statistic made ​​through Europe, called "Loyalty to the spouse"(partner) where the respondents were only the women, showed that this phenomenon of betrayal is even greater than previously thought!!
France was at the top of the list for adultery, whereas in other countries the percentage was at a lower extent!!

I remember like today, 85% of respondents said that they have betrayed the partner, of those over 40% with two different men, and 15% with more than two!!

Few years ago I started looking for a reason why these negative phenomena are present among Christians NOWADAYS!

My conviction was because they were not Muslims(although it also happens to Muslims, but on a much smaller scale) and secondly because they do not obey the orders of God which are in the Bible!

For the first one i cannot prove nothing right now, but for the second one YES!

Romans 1:25-27

25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

If you become realistic and accept that those that I have mentioned above are taking place in a high degree among christians, then you will also need to accept that you changed the truth of God and that you are serving the creature rather than the Creator!!

And the extent of punishment for this is as follows:

1- because they exchanged THE TRUTH about God FOR A LIE

2- and worshiped and served THE CREATURE rather than THE CREATOR.....

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;

27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

And it is very unusual that Christians try to convince other part of humanity that the Bible is the Word of God, are precisely they are who disagree with the teaching of the Bible itself!

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Which is the reason that most of the Christians are going astray??!

Why most of the Christian countries are facing the same problems??!

I had the occasion to travel through several Christian countries in Europe, and I have been in Australia also for a while.
It is strange that most of the inhabitants of these countries bear the cross with pride and have little in common with the teachings of Jesus. Or nothing in common!!

The problem that I have noticed in these countries is excessive immorality, homosexuality in a degree,adultery and many divorces due to this phenomenon!!!

Five or six years ago a statistic made ​​through Europe, called "Loyalty to the spouse"(partner) where the respondents were only the women, showed that this phenomenon of betrayal is even greater than previously thought!!
France was at the top of the list for adultery, whereas in other countries the percentage was at a lower extent!!

I remember like today, 85% of respondents said that they have betrayed the partner, of those over 40% with two different men, and 15% with more than two!!

Few years ago I started looking for a reason why these negative phenomena are present among Christians NOWADAYS!

It's rather ironic for a Muslim to be complaining about the freedom of Christian societies given that they couldn't say a word about the problems in their Muslim countries without being imprisoned or execute by their governments or murdered by radical Muslims.

Islam as practiced in most Islamic countries directly contradicts the teaching that "there is no compulsion in religion." Some Muslim countries execute people for freely choosing their own religion if it is not Islam.

“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)

“If it had been your Lord’s will, all of the people on Earth would have believed. Would you then compel the people so to have them believe?” (Quran 10:99)

And it is even more ironic that you think that Muslim countries are morally superior to the west. If that were true, why would Muslims routinely target women and children with bombs? Which is a greater sin - to fornicate with a willing partner or to murder innocent women and children?



My conviction was because they were not Muslims(although it also happens to Muslims, but on a much smaller scale) and secondly because they do not obey the orders of God which are in the Bible!

Your mistake is to think that they are "Christian" merely because they live in an historically Christian nation.



For the first one i cannot prove nothing right now, but for the second one YES!

Romans 1:25-27

25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

If you become realistic and accept that those that I have mentioned above are taking place in a high degree among christians, then you will also need to accept that you changed the truth of God and that you are serving the creature rather than the Creator!!

That verse is talking about everyone who denies the Father and his Son Jesus Christ. This includes all Muslims. (Speaking from a Christian perspective, of course, since you are quoting the Bible. Personally, I don't believe in either Christianity or Islam).



And the extent of punishment for this is as follows:

1- because they exchanged THE TRUTH about God FOR A LIE

2- and worshiped and served THE CREATURE rather than THE CREATOR.....

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;

27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

And it is very unusual that Christians try to convince other part of humanity that the Bible is the Word of God, are precisely they are who disagree with the teaching of the Bible itself!
Your comments are erroneous because you are falsely speaking of all Westerners as if they were practicing Christians.

The more you write, the more it becomes evident that you are a religious polemicist, not a seeker of truth. You have a closed mind, and are posting canned arguments against a religion that you don't even understand.

[culi26]

It's rather ironic for a Muslim to be complaining about the freedom of Christian societies given that they couldn't say a word about the problems in their Muslim countries without being imprisoned or execute by their governments or murdered by radical Muslims.

You've missed the meaning of the topic! There is nothing to do with the religion of Christianity or Islam! It's about people who claim to practice them!

My goal is to encourage the imagination of Christians, so maybe on of them can reply about muslims problems! This is the way we can learn about our weaknesses as a society!! At least this is the way I learn about the others

And those in power(like Syria, Iran) do not represent Islam or Muslims, but I see that you have no idea why the government fights its own people!! The west may think that they are all muslims, but NO!

Those people(government) are killing muslims just because they believe Allah and Muhammad as the prophet!!




Islam as practiced in most Islamic countries directly contradicts the teaching that "there is no compulsion in religion." Some Muslim countries execute people for freely choosing their own religion if it is not Islam.

“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)

“If it had been your Lord’s will, all of the people on Earth would have believed. Would you then compel the people so to have them believe?” (Quran 10:99)

And it is even more ironic that you think that Muslim countries are morally superior to the west. If that were true, why would Muslims routinely target women and children with bombs? Which is a greater sin - to fornicate with a willing partner or to murder innocent women and children?

What would you have done? What would you have done if in your city there are 10 criminals and come one force(Nato) on behalf of those 10 criminals and kill the innocent children and women??!! Does this justify the killings of innocent children and women because somewhere in that country is a terrorist group! What do you think??!
Have you ever searched how many children and women were killed in the name of Saddam and Bin Laden??!!
More than 200 000!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why??????

Because the U.S. were in doubt that Iraq possessed nuclear weapons, and in the end they found rockets-American Rockets, from the time of the First Persian Gulf War! (United States support for Iraq during the Iran–Iraq war)
All they said:" Sorry, we had to be sure!!!!!!!!!
105,052 — 114,731 civilian deaths as a result of the conflict, March 2003 to January 2012!!

What would you have done if your children were killed by rockets(supposedly mistaken)??!
I am very sure that those you have stated above were made in retaliation!!!!

If you would try more on posting a topic about Muslim problems in their countries, it would be more beneficial for us. Maybe we will be able to understand why some Muslims take explosives and throw themselves in the air!! Have you ever thought what is the problem with this people??! How can they wrap explosives around their bodies and go among the innocent people??!
Or you will always ask that same question-why would Muslims routinely target women and children with bombs?

Or perhaps you have read the novel "Why"



That verse is talking about everyone who denies the Father and his Son Jesus Christ. This includes all Muslims. (Speaking from a Christian perspective, of course, since you are quoting the Bible. Personally, I don't believe in either Christianity or Islam).

If you don't believe i cannot do anything about that!! And muslims do not deny The Father, but The Son, we accept Jesus(pbuh) as a Prophet!
If there is something that denies Jesus as the son of God, these verses are not! Because these negative phenomena have appeared only recently!



Your comments are erroneous because you are falsely speaking of all Westerners as if they were practicing Christians.

This is exactly why I'm posting these topics! They are not practicing Christians at all, and if they do it would be better for the world. Because when they reject one law from Islam they reject The Law from the Bible also!
Because we have many common laws!!


The more you write, the more it becomes evident that you are a religious polemicist, not a seeker of truth. You have a closed mind, and are posting canned arguments against a religion that you don't even understand.

Thank you!! Oops this was not a compliment!!

I Practise the laws of the Bible 70% more than Christians do!!

[Richard Amiel McGough]

You've missed the meaning of the topic! There is nothing to do with the religion of Christianity or Islam! It's about people who claim to practice them!

My goal is to encourage the imagination of Christians, so maybe on of them can reply about muslims problems! This is the way we can learn about our weaknesses as a society!! At least this is the way I learn about the others

And those in power(like Syria, Iran) do not represent Islam or Muslims, but I see that you have no idea why the government fights its own people!! The west may think that they are all muslims, but NO!

Those people(government) are killing muslims just because they believe Allah and Muhammad as the prophet!!

Thanks for clarifying your intent. It wasn't obvious to me from what you wrote. :thumb:

I understand that "those in power do not represent Islam or Muslims." But if you understand that, you should also understand that the behavior of people in so-called "Christian countries" does not represent Christianity any more than the Muslim terrorists represent Islam.

And BTW - you use way too many exclamations!!!!! It makes it seem like you are shouting all the time.



What would you have done? What would you have done if in your city there are 10 criminals and come one force(Nato) on behalf of those 10 criminals and kill the innocent children and women??!! Does this justify the killings of innocent children and women because somewhere in that country is a terrorist group! What do you think??!
Have you ever searched how many children and women were killed in the name of Saddam and Bin Laden??!!
More than 200 000!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why??????

Because the U.S. were in doubt that Iraq possessed nuclear weapons, and in the end they found rockets-American Rockets, from the time of the First Persian Gulf War! (United States support for Iraq during the Iran–Iraq war)
All they said:" Sorry, we had to be sure!!!!!!!!!
105,052 — 114,731 civilian deaths as a result of the conflict, March 2003 to January 2012!!

What would you have done if your children were killed by rockets(supposedly mistaken)??!
I am very sure that those you have stated above were made in retaliation!!!!

War is a bloody mess, and Truth is the first causality of war. The blame game cuts both ways. I have no doubt that the US government gravely erred in starting the war in Iraq. But there is no justification for the predominantly Muslim practice of suicide bombing and targeting the innocent. Whole nations of Muslims are brainwashed by lies against the Jews and Westerners by their dictators. Sadam killed thousands of Muslims. Why didn't Muslims rise up against him?



If you would try more on posting a topic about Muslim problems in their countries, it would be more beneficial for us. Maybe we will be able to understand why some Muslims take explosives and throw themselves in the air!! Have you ever thought what is the problem with this people??! How can they wrap explosives around their bodies and go among the innocent people??!
Or you will always ask that same question-why would Muslims routinely target women and children with bombs?

Or perhaps you have read the novel "Why"

The primary reason why "Muslims routinely target women and children with bombs" is because they have been brainwashed by bad leaders using their own religion against them. You know that such behavior is contrary to Islam. Why does it persist so? Why don't Muslims rise up to protect their faith from such a perversion?




That verse is talking about everyone who denies the Father and his Son Jesus Christ. This includes all Muslims. (Speaking from a Christian perspective, of course, since you are quoting the Bible. Personally, I don't believe in either Christianity or Islam).
If you don't believe i cannot do anything about that!! And muslims do not deny The Father, but The Son, we accept Jesus(pbuh) as a Prophet!
If there is something that denies Jesus as the son of God, these verses are not! Because these negative phenomena have appeared only recently!

Don't worry. There's no need for you to "do" anything about my rejection of dogmatic religion. I'm doing very well, thank you.

It doesn't matter if you "accept Jesus as a Prophet." You know that Islam denies he is the Son of God. That is the central claim of the Gospels that were supposedly inspired by Allah.

The "phenomena" of which you speak have been occurring throughout the history of the world. Remember Sodom and Gomorrah?

Things are actually much better now. People are generally much more moral. Women have equal rights. Slavery is generally rejected as evil. Etc.




Your comments are erroneous because you are falsely speaking of all Westerners as if they were practicing Christians.
This is exactly why I'm posting these topics! They are not practicing Christians at all, and if they do it would be better for the world. Because when they reject one law from Islam they reject The Law from the Bible also!
Because we have many common laws!!

Yes, there are many laws in common with Islam and Judaism, but not so much with Christianity (since Christianity is not a "law based religion"). And why is there so much similarity? Because Islam simply copied Judaism and Christianity. Unfortunately, there was a lot of confusion in the copying process which is why the Quran is so confused about many things.




The more you write, the more it becomes evident that you are a religious polemicist, not a seeker of truth. You have a closed mind, and are posting canned arguments against a religion that you don't even understand.
Thank you!! Oops this was not a compliment!!

Well, that's true. It wasn't intended as a compliment. But then again, it wasn't intended as an insult either. My intent was to let you know how your post came across to me. I may have been wrong. If so, please accept my apology. But I don't know yet ... it's hard to tell what you are really trying to get at some times.

And again, your posts would be easier to read if you held back on the exclamation points!!!!!!



I Practise the laws of the Bible 70% more than Christians do!!
So you actually measured the statistics? I'd like to see the raw data. :lmbo:

But seriously, it is probably true that you practice more laws than the folks who just happen to live in the West. There is no reason to think they are "Christian" or for you to compare yourself with them. And besides, you also said that your own family aren't "real" Muslims:

culi26: My family believes they are muslims! But in fact they have nothing in common with Islam teachings! Why they say: "We are muslims" is because they found their forefathers saying so. I was like them till three years ago, not knowing almost everything about the teachings of Islam!

You sure do a lot of "judging others" don't you? Do you know what Jesus said about that?
Matthew 7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 "For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 "And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 "Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Is there something like that in the Quran or the Hadith? Please share it if you know it.

All the best,

Richard

[culi26]

So you actually measured the statistics? I'd like to see the raw data. :lmbo:

But seriously, it is probably true that you practice more laws than the folks who just happen to live in the West. There is no reason to think they are "Christian" or for you to compare yourself with them. And besides, you also said that your own family aren't "real" Muslims:

culi26: My family believes they are muslims! But in fact they have nothing in common with Islam teachings! Why they say: "We are muslims" is because they found their forefathers saying so. I was like them till three years ago, not knowing almost everything about the teachings of Islam!

You sure do a lot of "judging others" don't you? Do you know what Jesus said about that?
Matthew 7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 "For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 "And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 "Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Is there something like that in the Quran or the Hadith? Please share it if you know it.

Learn the meaning of the word Muslim and you will understand why I said it!

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: The difference between us and them (Non-Muslims) is that of prayers so whoever abandons prayers certainly commits kufr (Denial or rejection of the Truth)
(Tirmidhi, kitab ul Iman, Declared Sahih by Imam Tirmidhi, Imam Nasai and Allama Iraqi, Minhaaj ul Muslimeen pg.80)

All the best,

Richard[/QUOTE]

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Learn the meaning of the word Muslim and you will understand why I said it!

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: The difference between us and them (Non-Muslims) is that of prayers so whoever abandons prayers certainly commits kufr (Denial or rejection of the Truth)
(Tirmidhi, kitab ul Iman, Declared Sahih by Imam Tirmidhi, Imam Nasai and Allama Iraqi, Minhaaj ul Muslimeen pg.80)

I know the meaning of "Muslim" - but that doesn't answer the points I raised.

Millions of folks who are not Muslim pray, so the Hadith can't be right or it is saying that non-Muslims are Muslims and that's just a contradiction.

[duxrow]

:arghh:
Consider the prayer of the great prophet ELIJAH on Mount Carmel. The story is found in 1st Kings 18 concerning the opposing prayers of the 450 prophets of Baal and the 400 prophets of the groves who wanted GOD to send down the fire on their sacrifice. These 850 persons were sincere to the point of doing bodily harm to themselves; drawing blood, etc., BUT THEY WERE SINCERELY WRONG!

Elijah PROVED to them who the real GOD was -- he said "how long halt ye between two opinions -- if the LORD be GOD then follow him, but if Baal be GOD, follow him". Elijah gave the false prophets plenty of time but the fire didn't come down until Elijah prayed to the real god. Later on, at Pentecost, the "New" fire came down also on the Twelve Apostles.

The Muslims have it right about God being great, and maybe also correct about one of His names being Allah because of the differences in spelling between Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic, but they know NOTHING about the true nature of God because they're following the false and perverted teaching of the Koran or Hadith. They've doomed their children by enticing them with fables about 70 virgins after a suicidal lifestyle and hateful martyrs death. :eek:

[culi26]

I know the meaning of "Muslim" - but that doesn't answer the points I raised.

Millions of folks who are not Muslim pray, so the Hadith can't be right or it is saying that non-Muslims are Muslims and that's just a contradiction.

Richard, I was talking about Muslims prayers (SALAAH)! Five daily prayers!

Here is the hadith:

The difference between us (Muslims) and them (Kuffar/Non-Muslims) is that of SALAAH (Prayers)so whoever abandons SALAAH (Prayers) certainly commits KUFR.

Non-Muslim prayers can not be called SALAAH!

I believe that it is clear now!

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Richard, I was talking about Muslims prayers (SALAAH)! Five daily prayers!

Here is the hadith:

The difference between us (Muslims) and them (Kuffar/Non-Muslims) is that of SALAAH (Prayers)so whoever abandons SALAAH (Prayers) certainly commits KUFR.

Non-Muslim prayers can not be called SALAAH!

I believe that it is clear now!

If Islam says that all the prayers said by all the faithful people in the world are worthless because they are not "SALAAH" then Islam is wrong.

[culi26]

:arghh:
Consider the prayer of the great prophet ELIJAH on Mount Carmel. The story is found in 1st Kings 18 concerning the opposing prayers of the 450 prophets of Baal and the 400 prophets of the groves who wanted GOD to send down the fire on their sacrifice. These 850 persons were sincere to the point of doing bodily harm to themselves; drawing blood, etc., BUT THEY WERE SINCERELY WRONG!

Elijah PROVED to them who the real GOD was -- he said "how long halt ye between two opinions -- if the LORD be GOD then follow him, but if Baal be GOD, follow him". Elijah gave the false prophets plenty of time but the fire didn't come down until Elijah prayed to the real god. Later on, at Pentecost, the "New" fire came down also on the Twelve Apostles.

The Muslims have it right about God being great, and maybe also correct about one of His names being Allah because of the differences in spelling between Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic, but they know NOTHING about the true nature of God because they're following the false and perverted teaching of the Koran or Hadith. They've doomed their children by enticing them with fables about 70 virgins after a suicidal lifestyle and hateful martyrs death. :eek:

...and maybe also correct about one of His names being Allah......

Are you correct when you call Him THE GOD?

We accept those teachings that you called FALSE AND PERVERTED!

Why you do not invite Muslims into your Religion, and tell them the truth! MAYBE IS TIME THAT YOU READ THE QURAN and you will probably find arguments against the faith of muslims!
Who knows, if you can convert some Muslims maybe The God will reward you!

Read Numbers 31:17-18

[Timmy]

Maybe everywhere whatever various locale, they:sCh_christian: for different reasons?

Lil' Timmy thinks it is high time for some serious iconoclasm.
It could easily be argued that cross toting is a form of idolatry
...considering your own observations...

...and what about these words of Yeshua==> “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. Also, if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.” (Mk. 10.11-12)



Maybe now cross brandishing is to promote our own cause as deigned and denying our own ways is no longer part of that picture.


:prophet:Any "Christian" who intends to get off their cross, unless intentionally ignorant, will know the only way to go:sFun_dangling:is down.

Timmy

p.s. i'm glad i learned about the law of gravity.:uplane: