Where's Adam? The Mystery of the Missing Mythological Chapters of Genesis.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Rose and I were discussing her research (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3152-Is-the-biblical-teaching-on-marriage-a-good-thing-for-women&p=46083#post46083) concerning the Christian concept of marriage as between one man and one women. Most Christians try to support their opinion by citing Christ's reference to Adam and Eve becoming "one flesh" (Matt 19:5). Recalling the high frequency of divinely sanctioned polygamy in the Old Testament, which contradicts the Christian position, Rose wondered if there were any Old Testament verses that spoke of being "one flesh" as in Genesis 3. We found none. This sparked our curiosity, so we searched for any reference to Adam and Eve. We found no reference to Eve, and only two references to Adam; one in a genealogy (1 Chronicles 1:1) and a tangential mention in Job 31:33. This seemed very strange. How could it be that the entire Old Testament was missing references to Adam and Eve and the events in the Garden? So we looked to see if there was any mention of the Tree of Knowledge. We found none. So we looked for references to the flood of Noah, and found almost nothing. Noah is mentioned in only three verses of the Old Testament outside of Genesis and they are all very late (Isaiah 54:9, Ezekiel 14:14,20). So we looked for the tower of Babel and found nothing. The picture then came into focus. The entire Old Testament is almost entirely bereft of any reference to the ten chapters of Genesis 2-11. These are the "mythological" chapters that tell of the garden of Eden, a woman made from a rib, a talking snake, magical trees, the flood of Noah, the rainbow covenant, and the tower of Babel. Their character is very different from the rest of Genesis, including its first chapter, and almost none of the authors of the Old Testament show any awareness of that material at all.

So then we wondered why, if the mythological chapters were missing from the Old Testament, they would be so prominent in the New. So we looked at the Apocrypha, the literature written between the closing of the Old Testament and the writing of the New. And we found many references to the content of the mythological chapters. Indeed, we found a whole retelling of the missing material in 4 Esdras:
4 Esdras 3:5 And gavest a body unto Adam without soul, which was the workmanship of thine hands, and didst breathe into him the breath of life, and he was made living before thee. 6 And thou leadest him into paradise, which thy right hand had planted, before ever the earth came forward. 7 And unto him thou gavest commandment to love thy way: which he transgressed, and immediately thou appointedst death in him and in his generations, of whom came nations, tribes, people, and kindreds, out of number. 8 And every people walked after their own will, and did wonderful things before thee, and despised thy commandments. 9 And again in process of time thou broughtest the flood upon those that dwelt in the world, and destroyedst them. 10 And it came to pass in every of them, that as death was to Adam, so was the flood to these. 11 Nevertheless one of them thou leftest, namely, Noah with his household, of whom came all righteous men.

And similar material in Wisdom of Sirach:
Sirach 44:16 Enoch pleased the Lord, and was translated, being an example of repentance to all generations. 17 Noah was found perfect and righteous; in the time of wrath he was taken in exchange [for the world;] therefore was he left as a remnant unto the earth, when the flood came. 18 An everlasting covenant was made with him, that all flesh should perish no more by the flood

So now the conclusion seemed obvious. The material from the mythological chapters of Genesis is missing in the Old Testament because it was not widely read, if it existed at all, at the time those books were written. It is found in abundance in the Apocrypha because it had become popular by that time. Therefore, it seems likely that the material was probably inserted into Genesis after the rest of the Old Testament had already been written.

This is an amazing discovery. I have studied the Bible for over two decades and never noticed the missing mythological chapters of Genesis. I have no idea how I could have missed something so obvious. I would be very interested to know what others think about this.

[duxrow]

We found no reference to Eve, and only two references to Adam; one in a genealogy (1 Chronicles 1:1) and a tangential mention in Job 31:33.
:aim14:
Hosea 6:7 uses 'adam', but translated as 'men'. If it REALLY applies to Adam husband of Eve, could imply different understanding of their story. You think?:confused:

[Richard Amiel McGough]

:aim14:
Hosea 6:7 uses 'adam', but translated as 'men'. If it REALLY applies to Adam husband of Eve, could imply different understanding of their story. You think?:confused:
Good morning Bob,

It is possible that verse is speaking of Adam. The translators have a mixed opinion. The Septuagint translates "adam" as "anthropos" (man) and the Jewish English translation of the Tanakh (JPS) also uses "men." But "Adam" is much more frequent (11 to 4) in the 15 English translations listed on this page (http://bible.cc/hosea/6-7.htm). So this example is, at best, quite ambiguous and it certainly doesn't answer the question of why the content of the ten mythological chapters of Genesis 2-11 is almost entirely missing from the rest of the Old Testament. I think this proves that the mythological chapters were inserted into Genesis after the rest of the Bible had already been written.

What is the "different understanding of their story" that you think might be implied by this verse? Personally, I don't think it makes much sense to use such an ambiguous verse to come up with new interpretation. A much more significant question, which is founded upon the content of the entire OT, is why is the material from Genesis 2-11 missing from the rest of the OT?

All the best,

Richard

[duxrow]

Good morning Bob, It is possible that verse is speaking of Adam. The translators have a mixed opinion. The Septuagint translates "adam" as "anthropos" (man) and the Jewish English translation of the Tanakh (JPS) also uses "men." But "Adam" is much more frequent (11 to 4) in the 15 English translations listed on this page (http://bible.cc/hosea/6-7.htm). So this example is, at best, quite ambiguous and it certainly doesn't answer the question of why the content of the ten mythological chapters of Genesis 2-11 is almost entirely missing from the rest of the Old Testament. I think this proves that the mythological chapters were inserted into Genesis after the rest of the Bible had already been written.


IMO there are no missing chapters--in fact, I'd think you'd appreciate how the first eleven are followed by such a change., i.e. the four (4) generations: Abraham / Isaac / Jacob / Joseph :)

What is the "different understanding of their story" that you think might be implied by this verse? Personally, I don't think it makes much sense to use such an ambiguous verse to come up with new interpretation. A much more significant question, which is founded upon the content of the entire OT, is why is the material from Genesis 2-11 missing from the rest of the OT?


As for me, since Eve wasn't present when Adams was instructed not to eat of that tree, I suspect it was meant for him, Adam, but not for Eve! IF he told her wrong, like not being allowed to touch the tree, it would be a type of how today there are many who get the wrong info because they get it from some religious tract instead of from the 66 Books.
All the best, Richard
:winking0071:
Seems to me that the BibleWheel and the 66 generations are mutually supportive, so am still puzzled that you haven't seen how the 3 groups of ten generations which lead to David, are followed by the 3 groups of 14 leading to Jesus.

And BTW - had forgotten this from Jer 4:23 "I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled". (another hint to the Gap Doctrine..) Maybe?:yo:

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Good morning Bob, It is possible that verse is speaking of Adam. The translators have a mixed opinion. The Septuagint translates "adam" as "anthropos" (man) and the Jewish English translation of the Tanakh (JPS) also uses "men." But "Adam" is much more frequent (11 to 4) in the 15 English translations listed on this page (http://bible.cc/hosea/6-7.htm). So this example is, at best, quite ambiguous and it certainly doesn't answer the question of why the content of the ten mythological chapters of Genesis 2-11 is almost entirely missing from the rest of the Old Testament. I think this proves that the mythological chapters were inserted into Genesis after the rest of the Bible had already been written.

IMO there are no missing chapters--in fact, I'd think you'd appreciate how the first eleven are followed by such a change., i.e. the four (4) generations: Abraham / Isaac / Jacob / Joseph :)




I think you missed my point. I didn't say the chapters were missing, but that references to the content of those chapters is missing. It is simply impossible to deny this fact. It seems to indicate that the writers of the OT were almost entirely ignorant of those chapters, which implies that they were not read, and probably did not exist, at the time the rest of the OT was written. What do you think of these facts?




What is the "different understanding of their story" that you think might be implied by this verse? Personally, I don't think it makes much sense to use such an ambiguous verse to come up with new interpretation. A much more significant question, which is founded upon the content of the entire OT, is why is the material from Genesis 2-11 missing from the rest of the OT?

As for me, since Eve wasn't present when Adams was instructed not to eat of that tree, I suspect it was meant for him, Adam, but not for Eve! IF he told her wrong, like not being allowed to touch the tree, it would be a type of how today there are many who get the wrong info because they get it from some religious tract instead of from the 66 Books.




It seems to me that the 66 books are religious tracts, or at least the NT, especially the Gospels.



:winking0071:
Seems to me that the BibleWheel and the 66 generations are mutually supportive, so am still puzzled that you haven't seen how the 3 groups of ten generations which lead to David, are followed by the 3 groups of 14 leading to Jesus.

The problem is that there is no solid evidence that there are 66 generations. It requires to much manipulation and too much speculation to come to that conclusion, including the explicit rejection of Luke's genealogy that includes an extra generation.



And BTW - had forgotten this from Jer 4:23 "I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled". (another hint to the Gap Doctrine..) Maybe?:yo:
Jeremiah 4:23 is quoting Genesis chapter 1. That's not part of the "mythological chapters" that are not referenced in the rest of the OT. The first chapter is referenced a lot. For example, it used as the basis of the Fourth Commandment:
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

And Isaiah refer back to Genesis 1 when he said:
Isaiah 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

So it seems pretty clear that Genesis 1 was well known at the time when the rest of the OT was composed. The same cannot be said of the "missing chapters" of Genesis 2-11.

If you are willing to accept things like the "gap theory" based on almost nothing but speculation, I would think that you would run with this grand discovery of something that has not been noticed by the vast majority of Christians.

All the best,

Richard

[duxrow]

:sEm_ImSorry:
Guess that's it then -- neither of us are going to budge. :p
God had said "In the Day that you eat, you'll SURELY die", but Eve told the serpent "Lest we die" (like maybe or perhaps?). Adam didn't eat until after Eve had taken a bite, and I'm just familiar enough with 'odious' or 'despicable' to believe that he waited for a day to pass before he took the plunge himself. Hmmm? :winking0071:

[Richard Amiel McGough]

:sEm_ImSorry:
Guess that's it then -- neither of us are going to budge. :p

What are you talking about? I've got no limitations to my movement at all. I "budge" to make room for every new fact that presents itself to me.

It seems very strange that you have not acknowledge anything about the facts that I explained in the opening post. Do you understand the facts I've presented? Do you understand that the Old Testament contains almost no references to the content of Genesis 2-11? Do you understand why this is significant?


God had said "In the Day that you eat, you'll SURELY die", but Eve told the serpent "Lest we die" (like maybe or perhaps?). Adam didn't eat until after Eve had taken a bite, and I'm just familiar enough with 'odious' or 'despicable' to believe that he waited for a day to pass before he took the plunge himself. Hmmm? :winking0071:

I'm sorry, but I don't understand how your comment relates to the topic of this thread.

But have a great day anyway! :sunny:

[jce]

Rose and I were discussing her research (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3152-Is-the-biblical-teaching-on-marriage-a-good-thing-for-women&p=46083#post46083) concerning the Christian concept of marriage as between one man and one women. Most Christians try to support their opinion by citing Christ's reference to Adam and Eve becoming "one flesh" (Matt 19:5). Recalling the high frequency of divinely sanctioned polygamy in the Old Testament, which contradicts the Christian position, Rose wondered if there were any Old Testament verses that spoke of being "one flesh" as in Genesis 3. We found none. This sparked our curiosity, so we searched for any reference to Adam and Eve. We found no reference to Eve, and only two references to Adam; one in a genealogy (1 Chronicles 1:1) and a tangential mention in Job 31:33. This seemed very strange. How could it be that the entire Old Testament was missing references to Adam and Eve and the events in the Garden? So we looked to see if there was any mention of the Tree of Knowledge. We found none. So we looked for references to the flood of Noah, and found almost nothing. Noah is mentioned in only three verses of the Old Testament outside of Genesis and they are all very late (Isaiah 54:9, Ezekiel 14:14,20). So we looked for the tower of Babel and found nothing. The picture then came into focus. The entire Old Testament is almost entirely bereft of any reference to the ten chapters of Genesis 2-11. These are the "mythological" chapters that tell of the garden of Eden, a woman made from a rib, a talking snake, magical trees, the flood of Noah, the rainbow covenant, and the tower of Babel. Their character is very different from the rest of Genesis, including its first chapter, and almost none of the authors of the Old Testament show any awareness of that material at all.

So then we wondered why, if the mythological chapters were missing from the Old Testament, they would be so prominent in the New. So we looked at the Apocrypha, the literature written between the closing of the Old Testament and the writing of the New. And we found many references to the content of the mythological chapters. Indeed, we found a whole retelling of the missing material in 4 Esdras:
4 Esdras 3:5 And gavest a body unto Adam without soul, which was the workmanship of thine hands, and didst breathe into him the breath of life, and he was made living before thee. 6 And thou leadest him into paradise, which thy right hand had planted, before ever the earth came forward. 7 And unto him thou gavest commandment to love thy way: which he transgressed, and immediately thou appointedst death in him and in his generations, of whom came nations, tribes, people, and kindreds, out of number. 8 And every people walked after their own will, and did wonderful things before thee, and despised thy commandments. 9 And again in process of time thou broughtest the flood upon those that dwelt in the world, and destroyedst them. 10 And it came to pass in every of them, that as death was to Adam, so was the flood to these. 11 Nevertheless one of them thou leftest, namely, Noah with his household, of whom came all righteous men.

And similar material in Wisdom of Sirach:
Sirach 44:16 Enoch pleased the Lord, and was translated, being an example of repentance to all generations. 17 Noah was found perfect and righteous; in the time of wrath he was taken in exchange [for the world;] therefore was he left as a remnant unto the earth, when the flood came. 18 An everlasting covenant was made with him, that all flesh should perish no more by the flood

So now the conclusion seemed obvious. The material from the mythological chapters of Genesis is missing in the Old Testament because it was not widely read, if it existed at all, at the time those books were written. It is found in abundance in the Apocrypha because it had become popular by that time. Therefore, it seems likely that the material was probably inserted into Genesis after the rest of the Old Testament had already been written.

This is an amazing discovery. I have studied the Bible for over two decades and never noticed the missing mythological chapters of Genesis. I have no idea how I could have missed something so obvious. I would be very interested to know what others think about this.

I draw at least two conclusions from this post Richard...

(1) A little revived hope on your part that the Bible, at least a modified version of it, might still be a revelation from the Creator, and;

(2) Mormonism may have at least one doctrine right.

All in all, a very intriguing observation and it's great to see you once again express enthusiasm concerning a Biblical discovery!!! Only God knows where it will lead so keep researching Rose and Richard, perhaps that which is perfect, is yet to come! All things are possible with God.

I remain your friend.

John

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I draw at least two conclusions from this post Richard...

(1) A little revived hope on your part that the Bible, at least a modified version of it, might still be a revelation from the Creator, and;

(2) Mormonism may have at least one doctrine right.

All in all, a very intriguing observation and it's great to see you once again express enthusiasm concerning a Biblical discovery!!! Only God knows where it will lead so keep researching Rose and Richard, perhaps that which is perfect, is yet to come! All things are possible with God.

I remain your friend.

John
Good morning John,

I don't quite follow your comments. I was curious what you thought about the discovery that the content of the mythological chapters is almost entirely missing from the rest of the OT, yet it appears in abundance in the apocrypha and NT writings. That seems to indicate that it was inserted into Genesis after the rest of the OT was completed. Doesn't this impact the way we understand those chapters and the doctrines they contain?

As for your point #2: Which Mormon doctrine were you thinking of?

Cheerio,

Richard

[Rose]

Another interesting point to pursue is where the Jewish idea of clean and unclean animals came from. It clearly was not from God's conversation with Noah, where every living thing was acceptable for food...


Gen.9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.


Apparently the authors of the Torah were unfamiliar with this particular section of their book, or could it be it was inserted at a much later time...that is to say after the laws pertaining to clean and unclean animals were given?

Rose