Consciousness Studies

[Rose]

Interesting video on the possible origins of consciousness...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj0Cg-zY3Q0

[Luke1978]

When you fall unconcious you arrive at the next moment of conciousness immediately. You step out of time for a while. However if your human body loses the functionality to wake up an eternity could go by in an instant and you will arrive in your next state of being.

For me that is with Christ. However from a non religous view if everything was random chance your exact same conciousness has an infinite chance of existing again so complete death would be an instant movement to the next concious moment. By infinite chance you may even get to an incarnation of immortality. You made it once if your reading this!

However I'll stick with Jesus but I don't mind a bit of quantum physics. Even if conciousness is in the brain where is the brain? - It's non local.

[Rose]

When you fall unconscious you arrive at the next moment of consciousness immediately. You step out of time for a while. However if your human body loses the functionality to wake up an eternity could go by in an instant and you will arrive in your next state of being.

For me that is with Christ. However from a non religious view if everything was random chance your exact same consciousness has an infinite chance of existing again so complete death would be an instant movement to the next conscious moment. By infinite chance you may even get to an incarnation of immortality. You made it once if your reading this!

However I'll stick with Jesus but I don't mind a bit of quantum physics. Even if consciousness is in the brain where is the brain? - It's non local.
Hi Luke,

Welcome to the forum...:welcome:

Maybe, when ones consciousness departs this body it re-unites with the universal consciousness, and adds to the whole of a growing knowledge base. In this manner knowledge continues to grow and expand, and as more and more people become aware of our connectedness through understanding our oneness (being part of the whole), human consciousness rises. As each new life comes into existence consciousness emerges through it and experiences life, that experience is what expands the knowledge of the whole in a continuous cycle of increase.

Everything has unfolded out of the same source, so everything is connected. If we could infold everything in the universe, it would eventually end up at one single point of beginning...everything came from that singularity.

Amazing stuff to think about...:pop2:

Rose

[CWH]

Hi Luke,

Welcome to the forum...:welcome:

Maybe, when ones consciousness departs this body it re-unites with the universal consciousness, and adds to the whole of a growing knowledge base. In this manner knowledge continues to grow and expand, and as more and more people become aware of our connectedness through understanding our oneness (being part of the whole), human consciousness rises. As each new life comes into existence consciousness emerges through it and experiences life, that experience is what expands the knowledge of the whole in a continuous cycle of increase.

Everything has unfolded out of the same source, so everything is connected. If we could infold everything in the universe, it would eventually end up at one single point of beginning...everything came from that singularity.

Amazing stuff to think about...:pop2:

Rose

A heap of craps! Please explain in simple terms.

When consciousness departs from the body, it is UNCONSCIOUSNESS.

God Bless :pray:

[Luke1978abc]

A heap of craps! Please explain in simple terms.

When consciousness departs from the body, it is UNCONSCIOUSNESS.

God Bless :pray:

Departs to where? - We live in a non local reality. Actually we exist in a singularity. We are all everywhere and nowhere at the same time.

Chech this out:

http://www.plim.org/nonlocal.htm

Message to forum admin: I registered an account as Luke1978 but it is still not activated. I think I like this site! - Freedom of ideas :-)

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Departs to where? - We live in a non local reality. Actually we exist in a singularity. We are all everywhere and nowhere at the same time.

Chech this out:

http://www.plim.org/nonlocal.htm

Message to forum admin: I registered an account as Luke1978 but it is still not activated. I think I like this site! - Freedom of ideas :-)
Fascinating ideas Luke. I agree that reality is non-local (Bell's theorem and EPR have proven that) but I'm not sure what you mean when you say we live in a "singularity." A singularity has zero dimension, so there is no space in it. Are you saying that space is some sort of illusion? But that's where we got the ideas for our science which led to the idea of a singularity. Kinda loopy ...

I've activated your account. Sorry for the delay. It's good to have you on board.

[luke1978]

Fascinating ideas Luke. I agree that reality is non-local (Bell's theorem and EPR have proven that) but I'm not sure what you mean when you say we live in a "singularity." A singularity has zero dimension, so there is no space in it. Are you saying that space is some sort of illusion? But that's where we got the ideas for our science which led to the idea of a singularity. Kinda loopy ...

I've activated your account. Sorry for the delay. It's good to have you on board.

I have come to the conclusion there are 0 dimensions. We are actually nowhere but everywhere and we exist in the all that is. The creator creates 3 dimensions for us to experience.

In the beginning of the Bible the creation takes 6 days(Evenings, Mornings and days) = 6 Evenings, 6 Mornings and 6 days(666 = incomplete and humanities number). Our journey through life is to achieve 777.

The God of "Time and love" has encoded the Bible with this 777 message. Many things Christian fundamentalists do not see is these numbers. All of these bizarre stories in the bible point us to Christ who is 77 and the pathway to God via the Holy Spirit = 777

I read your testimony about why you are not a Christian anymore. I consider myself a Christian however I just believe that Christ intervened through time and space as the incarnation of God who is outside time.

Look at this:

1.Honor Self - WHO Will lead me to God? - I am the good Shepherd - John 10:11 - Honor Jesus

2.Evil - WHY am I trapped in darkness and sin? - I am the light of the world - John 8:12 - Holy

3.Adultery - HOW do I renew myself? - I am the resurrection and the life - John 11:25 - Reborn, New life

4.Greed - WHAT will make me stop hungering for worldly things - I am the bread of life - John 6:35 - Generosity

5.Deceit - WHEN will I know the truth? - I am the true vine - John 15:1 - Truth

6.Covet - WHERE is humbleness and the door to heaven? - I am the door - John 10:7 - To God be thankful

7.Hate, Revenge - WHICH Way will lead me to God? - I am the way, the truth and the light - John 14:6 - Agape love, Forgiveness

So we live in 0 dimensions and God created us to become like him. In his image and likeness. This creation is a spiritual creation and even though it has literal meaning(To encompass different times in history. Flat earth etc) I don't believe it is talking about the creation of the physical. God is not in the image of a person which should be one clue. Also from Gen 2:4 it explains a more physical way. Dust of the earth is actually quite powerful as we know from physics 99.9 percent of matter is non-matter.

I have big issues with all the bloodshed in the bible but numbers do not lie. The whole thing points to Jesus to take us away from this "Bronze age" tribal man made God.

Even prophecy is really just God encoding into the text what he knows will happen. I don't think God wanted to destroy Jerusalem in AD70 but I do know the 70 weeks prophecy using the same maths that gets you to the restoration of Israel in 1948 is amazing! - God does all this to point us to Jesus.

It's not a case of him wanting to sacrifice his Son(He is the Son) but more a case of showing that he(God) could come down and carry the burdens of this world. Of course it doesn't add up why innocent people suffer but I do know when I have seen a kid getting treated for Leukemia it makes me realise my shortcomings. When I see the starving in the world I realise I am greedy. This is how I make sense of it and try to change.

So we are living in this 0 dimensional singularity and the divine spark has a purpose and even encoded itself in the writings of men. Which technically still makes the Bible the world of God in a spiritual sense.

[jce]

Departs to where? - We live in a non local reality. Actually we exist in a singularity. We are all everywhere and nowhere at the same time.

Chech this out:

http://www.plim.org/nonlocal.htm

Message to forum admin: I registered an account as Luke1978 but it is still not activated. I think I like this site! - Freedom of ideas :-)

"Luke, trust your feelings Luke".

Hi there Luke and welcome to Richard's most excellent website!

Luke1978, is that number significant or just the next number up for a Luke?

I followed your link and read the entire article. Fascinating! For me it helps tie together some of Richard's scientific philosophy with the Biblical revelation of God. An important connection because I know Richrad is not nuts, but for whatever reason He has abandoned the Scriptures. I'll let Richard speak for himself in more detail.

Anyway, just want to say "Thanks" for the link and I look forward to your contributions to this think tank.

John

[CWH]

Hi Luke,

Welcome to the forum...:welcome:

Maybe, when ones consciousness departs this body it re-unites with the universal consciousness, and adds to the whole of a growing knowledge base. In this manner knowledge continues to grow and expand, and as more and more people become aware of our connectedness through understanding our oneness (being part of the whole), human consciousness rises. As each new life comes into existence consciousness emerges through it and experiences life, that experience is what expands the knowledge of the whole in a continuous cycle of increase.

Everything has unfolded out of the same source, so everything is connected. If we could infold everything in the universe, it would eventually end up at one single point of beginning...everything came from that singularity.

Amazing stuff to think about...:pop2:

Rose

Rose, please explain this craps in simple terms that everyone can understand....or.....are you on some hallucinogens?

GOD BLESSED.:pray:

[luke1978]

"Luke, trust your feelings Luke".

Hi there Luke and welcome to Richard's most excellent website!

Luke1978, is that number significant or just the next number up for a Luke?

I followed your link and read the entire article. Fascinating! For me it helps tie together some of Richard's scientific philosophy with the Biblical revelation of God. An important connection because I know Richrad is not nuts, but for whatever reason He has abandoned the Scriptures. I'll let Richard speak for himself in more detail.

Anyway, just want to say "Thanks" for the link and I look forward to your contributions to this think tank.

John

Thanks John. Many Christians just think I'm nuts because they still think in 3 dimensions! - Well technically so do I but there is a way to connect science and God if you want to. My theories may turn out all incorrect but they help me sleep at night :-)

I was born in 1978 to answer your question.

[jce]

Thanks John. Many Christians just think I'm nuts because they still think in 3 dimensions! - Well technically so do I but there is a way to connect science and God if you want to. My theories may turn out all incorrect but they help me sleep at night :-)

I was born in 1978 to answer your question.

I suspected it might be (1978).

Humility is essential when approaching the Scriptures and it sounds like your attitude toward them also. Very intriguing interpretations. I too will sleep well tonight.

God Bless.

John

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I have come to the conclusion there are 0 dimensions. We are actually nowhere but everywhere and we exist in the all that is. The creator creates 3 dimensions for us to experience.

Good morning Luke, :sunny:

I think I understand your intent. It seems like you think that "ultimate reality" has zero dimensions whereas the world of our experience is an illusory four dimensional space-time manifold. It is an intriguing idea that coheres fairly well with some ideas from both physics and metaphysics. It's definitely worth more reflection.



In the beginning of the Bible the creation takes 6 days(Evenings, Mornings and days) = 6 Evenings, 6 Mornings and 6 days(666 = incomplete and humanities number). Our journey through life is to achieve 777.

The number 666 figures prominently in the alphanumeric structure of Genesis 1:1, but I personally don't find arbitrary concatenations like "6 Evenings, 6 Mornings and 6 days" as relating to that number. I have no reason to think God intended anything like that. Six "evenings and mornings" is just a way to describe "six days." I can't see any connection with the number 666.



The God of "Time and love" has encoded the Bible with this 777 message. Many things Christian fundamentalists do not see is these numbers. All of these bizarre stories in the bible point us to Christ who is 77 and the pathway to God via the Holy Spirit = 777

I presume you are using English gematria to arrive at Christ = 77. I don't think there is any validity to English gematria.

How did you arrive at Holy Spirit = 777? That doesn't come from any gematria that I know of.



I read your testimony about why you are not a Christian anymore. I consider myself a Christian however I just believe that Christ intervened through time and space as the incarnation of God who is outside time.

That's fine. You can map any archetypes you like onto the idea of "Christ."



Look at this:

1.Honor Self - WHO Will lead me to God? - I am the good Shepherd - John 10:11 - Honor Jesus

2.Evil - WHY am I trapped in darkness and sin? - I am the light of the world - John 8:12 - Holy

3.Adultery - HOW do I renew myself? - I am the resurrection and the life - John 11:25 - Reborn, New life

4.Greed - WHAT will make me stop hungering for worldly things - I am the bread of life - John 6:35 - Generosity

5.Deceit - WHEN will I know the truth? - I am the true vine - John 15:1 - Truth

6.Covet - WHERE is humbleness and the door to heaven? - I am the door - John 10:7 - To God be thankful

7.Hate, Revenge - WHICH Way will lead me to God? - I am the way, the truth and the light - John 14:6 - Agape love, Forgiveness

That's a good example of a mental exercise to transfer your thoughts from darkness to light. This is probably one of the greatest values of religions like Christianity and Islam. They give a "lens" that helps a person focus their mind on higher values.



So we live in 0 dimensions and God created us to become like him. In his image and likeness. This creation is a spiritual creation and even though it has literal meaning(To encompass different times in history. Flat earth etc) I don't believe it is talking about the creation of the physical. God is not in the image of a person which should be one clue. Also from Gen 2:4 it explains a more physical way. Dust of the earth is actually quite powerful as we know from physics 99.9 percent of matter is non-matter.

Yes, a "non-physical" (i.e. spiritual/metaphysical) interpretation of the Bible frees it from all its problems with regards to logic, facts, and science. But some might think that also disconnects it from reality and allows anyone to make up whatever interpretation they like with no ability to discern truth since their ideas are no longer tethered to reality. And why should anyone start with the Bible? If you are going to invent a metaphysical system, might as well invent one that unifies all the worlds religions. There is no conflict between Sufic Islam and Mystic Christianity, for example.



I have big issues with all the bloodshed in the bible but numbers do not lie. The whole thing points to Jesus to take us away from this "Bronze age" tribal man made God.

That's a fine view of Scripture. If I believed it were true, I could happily accept the Bible according to my own standards as you have done. But I'm not interested in inventing my own metaphysical interpretation of Christianity. How would I know it is true? How would I know if it was just my fantasy? Perhaps I'm just currently in the midpoint between a false understanding of Christianity and a new transformed version. I don't know. Any insight would be appreciated.

As for numbers, they neither lie nor tell the truth. It all depends on how they are interpreted. This has given rise to a couple famous aphorisms warning the wise, both found in the writings of Mark Twain:

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Figures don't lie, but liars figure.



Even prophecy is really just God encoding into the text what he knows will happen. I don't think God wanted to destroy Jerusalem in AD70 but I do know the 70 weeks prophecy using the same maths that gets you to the restoration of Israel in 1948 is amazing! - God does all this to point us to Jesus.

I'd like to see your calculations.



It's not a case of him wanting to sacrifice his Son(He is the Son) but more a case of showing that he(God) could come down and carry the burdens of this world. Of course it doesn't add up why innocent people suffer but I do know when I have seen a kid getting treated for Leukemia it makes me realise my shortcomings. When I see the starving in the world I realise I am greedy. This is how I make sense of it and try to change.

I don't have any problem understanding the suffering in the world. I just take it as direct evidence that there is no god of the kind posited by Christianity. There may be a god, but he's not a "he" and he's not like a person who arbitrarily chooses to intervene to help Aunt Betty find her lost dog Fluffy while simultaneously letting 200,000 Christians die horrible deaths in the Hatian earthquake. I know that conception is false because it is fundamentally irrational.

Thanks for the stimulating post.

Great chatting!

Richard

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hi Luke,

Welcome to the forum...:welcome:

Maybe, when ones consciousness departs this body it re-unites with the universal consciousness, and adds to the whole of a growing knowledge base. In this manner knowledge continues to grow and expand, and as more and more people become aware of our connectedness through understanding our oneness (being part of the whole), human consciousness rises. As each new life comes into existence consciousness emerges through it and experiences life, that experience is what expands the knowledge of the whole in a continuous cycle of increase.

Everything has unfolded out of the same source, so everything is connected. If we could infold everything in the universe, it would eventually end up at one single point of beginning...everything came from that singularity.

Amazing stuff to think about...:pop2:

Rose
Rose, please explain this craps in simple terms that everyone can understand....or.....are you on some hallucinogens?

GOD BLESSED.:pray:

Cheow,

Your description of Rose's post as "crap" reflects more on you than on her comments. The idea that "consciousness departs this body it re-unites with the universal consciousness" is an essential part of the Perennial Philosophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perennial_philosophy) which is based on the unity of all religions:


Perennial philosophy (Latin: philosophia perennis, more fully, philosophia perennis et universalis; sometimes shortened to sophia perennis or religio perennis) is the notion of the universal recurrence of philosophical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical) insight independent of epoch or culture, including universal truths (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth) on the nature of reality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality), humanity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_nature) or consciousness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness) (anthropological universals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropological_universal)).

The perennial philosophy is a perspective within the philosophy of religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_religion) which views each of the world’s religious traditions as sharing a single, universal truth and a single divine foundation of all religious knowledge. Each world religion, independent of its cultural or historical context, is simply a different interpretation of this knowledge. World religions including, but not limited to, Christianity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity), Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam), Judaism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism), Hinduism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism), Taoism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism), Confucianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucianism), Shinto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinto), Sikhism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism) and Buddhism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism), are all derived from the same universal truth. Although the sacred scriptures of these world religions are undeniably diverse and often oppose each other, each world religion has been formed to fit the social, mental and spiritual needs of its respective epoch and culture. Therefore, perennial philosophy maintains that each world religion has flourished from the foundation of the same universal truth, making these differences superficial and able to be cast aside to find religion’s deeper spiritual meaning.
Aldous Huxley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldous_Huxley), who wrote a widely read book on the subject, defined the perennial philosophy as:
the metaphysic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysic) that recognizes a divine Reality substantial to the world of things and lives and minds; the psychology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology) that finds in the soul something similar to, or even identical to, divine Reality; the ethic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethic) that places man's final end in the knowledge of the immanent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanence) and transcendent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendence_%28religion%29) Ground of all being (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_of_being); the thing is immemorial and universal. Rudiments of the perennial philosophy may be found among the traditional lore of primitive peoples in every region of the world, and in its fully developed forms it has a place in every one of the higher religions
(The Perennial Philosophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Perennial_Philosophy), p. vii).



You only display your ignorance when you call these deep ideas "crap." They may be true, they may be false, or they may be something in between. But whatever they are, they are built on the universal aspects of all religions which you constantly appeal to in our debates. And that's what makes your insulting comment so ludicrous - not only are you displaying ignorance, but you also are contradicting your own arguments.

It would be good if you dropped the ignorant and insulting comments and joined us in a mutually respectful search for the truth.

I'm sorry to speak so plainly, but it is simply wrong to dismiss other ideas as "crap" when you have no idea what you are talking about.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not mad at you and I very much appreciate your contributions to this forum, so please think of my comments as "wounds of a friend" which are so much better than the "kisses of an enemy."

Proverbs 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

All the best to you my friend,

Richard

[luke1978]

Good morning Luke, :sunny:

I think I understand your intent. It seems like you think that "ultimate reality" has zero dimensions whereas the world of our experience is an illusory four dimensional space-time manifold. It is an intriguing idea that coheres fairly well with some ideas from both physics and metaphysics. It's definitely worth more reflection.


The number 666 figures prominently in the alphanumeric structure of Genesis 1:1, but I personally don't find arbitrary concatenations like "6 Evenings, 6 Mornings and 6 days" as relating to that number. I have no reason to think God intended anything like that. Six "evenings and mornings" is just a way to describe "six days." I can't see any connection with the number 666.


I presume you are using English gematria to arrive at Christ = 77. I don't think there is any validity to English gematria.

How did you arrive at Holy Spirit = 777? That doesn't come from any gematria that I know of.


That's fine. You can map any archetypes you like onto the idea of "Christ."


That's a good example of a mental exercise to transfer your thoughts from darkness to light. This is probably one of the greatest values of religions like Christianity and Islam. They give a "lens" that helps a person focus their mind on higher values.


Yes, a "non-physical" (i.e. spiritual/metaphysical) interpretation of the Bible frees it from all its problems with regards to logic, facts, and science. But some might think that also disconnects it from reality and allows anyone to make up whatever interpretation they like with no ability to discern truth since their ideas are no longer tethered to reality. And why should anyone start with the Bible? If you are going to invent a metaphysical system, might as well invent one that unifies all the worlds religions. There is no conflict between Sufic Islam and Mystic Christianity, for example.


That's a fine view of Scripture. If I believed it were true, I could happily accept the Bible according to my own standards as you have done. But I'm not interested in inventing my own metaphysical interpretation of Christianity. How would I know it is true? How would I know if it was just my fantasy? Perhaps I'm just currently in the midpoint between a false understanding of Christianity and a new transformed version. I don't know. Any insight would be appreciated.

As for numbers, they neither lie nor tell the truth. It all depends on how they are interpreted. This has given rise to a couple famous aphorisms warning the wise, both found in the writings of Mark Twain:

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Figures don't lie, but liars figure.


I'd like to see your calculations.


I don't have any problem understanding the suffering in the world. I just take it as direct evidence that there is no god of the kind posited by Christianity. There may be a god, but he's not a "he" and he's not like a person who arbitrarily chooses to intervene to help Aunt Betty find her lost dog Fluffy while simultaneously letting 200,000 Christians die horrible deaths in the Hatian earthquake. I know that conception is false because it is fundamentally irrational.

Thanks for the stimulating post.

Great chatting!

Richard

Hi Richard,

I'm going to have to be quick as it's Saturday and we have a 2 and 3 year old. The 777 is not Gematria. The number for Jesus = 888 or Jesus Christ = 2368.

No what I'm trying to say is we are all born in the image of God(Conciousness is the image) but we start out as a beast. 666 is an incomplete creation. To enter rest with God we must transform into 777. As an example you don't really thing Lamech lived to be 777 years old?. Have you noticed there are 77 generations in the Geneology of Jesus in the book of Luke?

Jesus is the way, truth and the life(77) to the father(777) via the holy spirit. Like the story with Jericho Moses could not cross into the promised land as he represents the "Law" but Jesus(Same as Joshua) represents Grace and Truth. So if you read Chapter 5 & 6 of Joshua you will realise the wall in Jericho is your mind and the enemies that are so coldly killed are not real people but barriers that stop your spiritual growth. I've got to take this new understanding and gradually go through the old testament and I'm hoping to find a loving God and that as Jesus spoke in parables maybe that is one way of seeing the old testament. Do you really see any point in blowing 7 trumpets to bring down a wall?

Even the 7 seals in Revelation I believe are in the mind. The Bible is a sealed book and it needs to be unlocked. It's probably all the violence that has made the book survive as man likes violence.

I'll leave the 777 thing alone for now and let you meditate on it. I don't want to hear from anyone that wants to justify the violence as Jesus healed the man who had his ear cut off. God does not change and does love us.

OK I'll include a couple of links for the prophecy stuff I mentioned:

Israel restoration prophecy:

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2000/276/print/

70 weeks prophecy:

The same Maths above gets you from 444BC to 33AD. I cannot find the link. Do you already know about the calculation of the 69 weeks with the 360 day years? - I'll get you a link if you don't.

Also Daniel 9:24-27 has 86 words(Hebrew gematria = God) and 360 letters which is another sign why using 360 day years is acceptable. We know from Genesis 5 months was considered 150 days(12 times 30 = 360) - It's all a code!

Your site gives me 359 letters for Daniel 9:24-27 but I checked it with a Peter Bluer who has written "373 a proof set in stone" and he confirmed he has been studying this text for 30 years so either your hebrew text is wrong or maybe I miscounted. I have his book here too and I checked it myself.

I noticed many posts on evolution here. You are aware our DNA is mathematical symmetrical?

Also the value of Gen 1:1 is 2701(37 times 73) and we have 37 primary genes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_DNA

Also I believe the standard model of physics requires 37 sub-atomic particles for the big bang. That was according to a statement from the director at the Hadron collider. I've never studied the standard model.

Anyway it is all something for you to consider. Kids are destroying house so gotta go! - No time to proof read!

[luke1978]

Hi Richard,

I'm going to have to be quick as it's Saturday and we have a 2 and 3 year old. The 777 is not Gematria. The number for Jesus = 888 or Jesus Christ = 2368.

No what I'm trying to say is we are all born in the image of God(Conciousness is the image) but we start out as a beast. 666 is an incomplete creation. To enter rest with God we must transform into 777. As an example you don't really thing Lamech lived to be 777 years old?. Have you noticed there are 77 generations in the Geneology of Jesus in the book of Luke?

Jesus is the way, truth and the life(77) to the father(777) via the holy spirit. Like the story with Jericho Moses could not cross into the promised land as he represents the "Law" but Jesus(Same as Joshua) represents Grace and Truth. So if you read Chapter 5 & 6 of Joshua you will realise the wall in Jericho is your mind and the enemies that are so coldly killed are not real people but barriers that stop your spiritual growth. I've got to take this new understanding and gradually go through the old testament and I'm hoping to find a loving God and that as Jesus spoke in parables maybe that is one way of seeing the old testament. Do you really see any point in blowing 7 trumpets to bring down a wall?

Even the 7 seals in Revelation I believe are in the mind. The Bible is a sealed book and it needs to be unlocked. It's probably all the violence that has made the book survive as man likes violence.

I'll leave the 777 thing alone for now and let you meditate on it. I don't want to hear from anyone that wants to justify the violence as Jesus healed the man who had his ear cut off. God does not change and does love us.

OK I'll include a couple of links for the prophecy stuff I mentioned:

Israel restoration prophecy:

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2000/276/print/

70 weeks prophecy:

The same Maths above gets you from 444BC to 33AD. I cannot find the link. Do you already know about the calculation of the 69 weeks with the 360 day years? - I'll get you a link if you don't.

Also Daniel 9:24-27 has 86 words(Hebrew gematria = God) and 360 letters which is another sign why using 360 day years is acceptable. We know from Genesis 5 months was considered 150 days(12 times 30 = 360) - It's all a code!

Your site gives me 359 letters for Daniel 9:24-27 but I checked it with a Peter Bluer who has written "373 a proof set in stone" and he confirmed he has been studying this text for 30 years so either your hebrew text is wrong or maybe I miscounted. I have his book here too and I checked it myself.

I noticed many posts on evolution here. You are aware our DNA is mathematical symmetrical?

Also the value of Gen 1:1 is 2701(37 times 73) and we have 37 primary genes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_DNA

Also I believe the standard model of physics requires 37 sub-atomic particles for the big bang. That was according to a statement from the director at the Hadron collider. I've never studied the standard model.

Anyway it is all something for you to consider. Kids are destroying house so gotta go! - No time to proof read!

I should add this as it throws out any dispute of the 70 week prophecy starting at any other time but 444BC. This also proves Jesus was crucified in 33AD without a shadow of a doubt. Watch from 39 minutes onwards for a few minutes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGeSRyzN49Q

It validates the math used in the Israel(1948) and Jesus prophecy. There is also proof Venus went into retrogade(Full stop when viewing) on December 25th 2BC. This fixes the life of Jesus at 33.5 years if we take his birth in September(Jewish New Year). The sign on December 25th is amazing because it seems more of a sign to us then the people back then. I know Christmas is some sort of Pagan date but the sign on December 25th seems to indicate God knew how we would celebrate the birth of Christ on that date. Thankyou to NASA!

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hi Richard,

I'm going to have to be quick as it's Saturday and we have a 2 and 3 year old. The 777 is not Gematria. The number for Jesus = 888 or Jesus Christ = 2368.

No what I'm trying to say is we are all born in the image of God(Conciousness is the image) but we start out as a beast. 666 is an incomplete creation. To enter rest with God we must transform into 777. As an example you don't really thing Lamech lived to be 777 years old?. Have you noticed there are 77 generations in the Geneology of Jesus in the book of Luke?

Hey there Luke,

The idea that we are made "in the image of God/Consciousness" makes good sense to me. I am inclined towards the idea that consciousness is the "Ground of Being." But I don't think the idea of a "Theistic God" as a sort of super-human agent who goes about doing things make much sense. This is because something universal like God (infinite) cannot be particular (finite) like a person. If God is "all in all" he can't just be a part of the all.

The idea that we start out as a beast makes great sense from an evolutionary point of view.

But I don't associate 666 with any kind of "incompleteness." The number 6 is the first "perfect number" (6 = 1 + 2 + 3 = 1 x 2 x 3) and it is the basis of space-filling hexagonal symmetry so many of the ancients saw it as a symbol of physical perfection.

Your symbolic use of the numbers is curious. What exactly does it mean to "transform into 777"?

According to our friend duxrow the book of Luke is wrong when it says that there were 77 generations. He says this because Luke's genealogy contradicts Genesis by inserting a "Cainan" (Luke 3:36) and he needs to use Genesis genealogy to make his pattern of 66 generations from Adam to Jesus to work out. He's very adamant about his pattern. You can read about it in the thread called The 33/66 Pattern (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3001-The-33-66-Pattern).



Jesus is the way, truth and the life(77) to the father(777) via the holy spirit. Like the story with Jericho Moses could not cross into the promised land as he represents the "Law" but Jesus(Same as Joshua) represents Grace and Truth. So if you read Chapter 5 & 6 of Joshua you will realise the wall in Jericho is your mind and the enemies that are so coldly killed are not real people but barriers that stop your spiritual growth. I've got to take this new understanding and gradually go through the old testament and I'm hoping to find a loving God and that as Jesus spoke in parables maybe that is one way of seeing the old testament. Do you really see any point in blowing 7 trumpets to bring down a wall?

Why do you put the number 77 by the word life and 777 by father? I don't understand the logic. It appears arbitrary.

I was always impressed by the typology of Joshua/Jesus leading Israel into the promised land where the Lawgiver Moses could not go.

A few people on this forum have promoted interpretations similar to yours. Unfortunately, I can't see how anyone could know if they are true or false since they are so far removed from the plain meaning of the text. And if they are true, then how do we discern between the literal and the figurative in the Bible? Is everything symbolic? Is Jesus just a symbol? Or did he really live? And if everything in the Bible is just symbolic of mental phenomena what does any of it matter?

My biggest problem with this kind of interpretation is that it is totally flexible and so can be conformed to any fantasy anyone might imagine.



Even the 7 seals in Revelation I believe are in the mind. The Bible is a sealed book and it needs to be unlocked. It's probably all the violence that has made the book survive as man likes violence.

I'll leave the 777 thing alone for now and let you meditate on it. I don't want to hear from anyone that wants to justify the violence as Jesus healed the man who had his ear cut off. God does not change and does love us.

Well, that's the problem. The Bible does not present God as very loving to many people. And if we have to reject and/or reinterpret all the verses we don't like, what good is the Bible? It does not guide us if we are the ones changing the meaning of what it says to suit our own standards. Folks like the Bible because it has a very strong aura of authority. What else would you expect after 2000 years of folks being told it is the "Word of God"? But people don't like what it says, so they massage it and work it and invent interpretations until it becomes something they like. But then it has lost any "authority" it might have had ... at least in my eyes.



OK I'll include a couple of links for the prophecy stuff I mentioned:

Israel restoration prophecy:

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2000/276/print/

70 weeks prophecy:

The same Maths above gets you from 444BC to 33AD. I cannot find the link. Do you already know about the calculation of the 69 weeks with the 360 day years? - I'll get you a link if you don't.

Yeah, I know about all that stuff. The problem is that those theories are based on the unsupportable assumption that there is a magical stretchy gap of 2000+ years between Daniel 9:26 and 9:27. And worse, they ignore that Daniel predicted that Jerusalem and the Temple would be destroyed shortly after the Messiah was killed, and that this is confirmed by Christ's own prediction that the end times would happen during "this generation" and that the fulfillment would be marked by the destruction of the Temple. And the calculations are a bit forced and history is too uncertain to support their claims of such extreme precision. The use of the 360 day calendar is just an unsupported assumption. So there are many problems with that whole approach. But the basic idea that Daniel predicted the general time for Messiah seems pretty good. A few years ago I wrote an article (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?102-Daniel-s-70-Weeks-were-fulfilled-in-70-AD) arguing that Daniel's 70 weeks were fulfilled in 70 AD. I use similar calculations but they are much more rigorous because I accounted for the uncertainties in the dates. Here's the image from my article. Note that I allow for uncertainty in both the date of the decree and the date of the crucifixion:


http://www.biblewheel.com/history/daniel.gif

The "prophetic window" indicates the time that the prophecy had to be fulfilled.



Also Daniel 9:24-27 has 86 words(Hebrew gematria = God) and 360 letters which is another sign why using 360 day years is acceptable. We know from Genesis 5 months was considered 150 days(12 times 30 = 360) - It's all a code!

Those kinds of "signs" are totally invalid. If there were 365 letters I am pretty sure you would not take that as a "sign" that the 360 day calendar was wrong. This kind of cherry-picking and logical inconsistency is the fast track to self-deception. We must use good logic and a fair balance. This is why Christians fail to convince skeptics. The flaws in their logic are transparent.

I agree that Revelation equates 42 months = 1260 days which implies 30 day months. But if you then try to use this as a "rule" your months will slowly shift back 5 days each year until the summer months happen in winter! And that contradicts other Biblical data that says certain months always happen in certain times of the year.



Your site gives me 359 letters for Daniel 9:24-27 but I checked it with a Peter Bluer who has written "373 a proof set in stone" and he confirmed he has been studying this text for 30 years so either your hebrew text is wrong or maybe I miscounted. I have his book here too and I checked it myself.

I have his book too. I'll see if I can locate the source of the discrepancy.



I noticed many posts on evolution here. You are aware our DNA is mathematical symmetrical?

Also the value of Gen 1:1 is 2701(37 times 73) and we have 37 primary genes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_DNA

Also I believe the standard model of physics requires 37 sub-atomic particles for the big bang. That was according to a statement from the director at the Hadron collider. I've never studied the standard model.

Anyway it is all something for you to consider. Kids are destroying house so gotta go! - No time to proof read!
Yes, I'm aware of patterns in the DNA and their relation to Genesis 1.1 We have a big thread on that topic called Has God's Signature been found in the Genetic Code? (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?655-Has-God-s-Signature-been-found-in-the-Genetic-Code). Do you think this contradicts the theory or evolution? What do you think about the history of life on this planet? How old do you think the planet is, and how long has there been life?

And I've written extensively on the alphanumeric patterns of Genesis 1:1-5 and John 1:1-5 as I'm sure you know.

Great chatting my friend! There is much for us to explore together.

Richard

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I should add this as it throws out any dispute of the 70 week prophecy starting at any other time but 444BC. This also proves Jesus was crucified in 33AD without a shadow of a doubt. Watch from 39 minutes onwards for a few minutes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGeSRyzN49Q

It validates the math used in the Israel(1948) and Jesus prophecy. There is also proof Venus went into retrogade(Full stop when viewing) on December 25th 2BC. This fixes the life of Jesus at 33.5 years if we take his birth in September(Jewish New Year). The sign on December 25th is amazing because it seems more of a sign to us then the people back then. I know Christmas is some sort of Pagan date but the sign on December 25th seems to indicate God knew how we would celebrate the birth of Christ on that date. Thankyou to NASA!

The video was very well produced, but it's very tedious because it takes too long to get to the point and repeats a lot of stuff that is common knowledge. The first substantive statement came at 17:30 minutes when he asserted that Paul was asserting that the Jews knew that Christ was Messiah because "the stars told them." He based this on this passage:
Romans 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

The problem is that he assumes that Paul was talking about the "stars" whereas the context tells us that Paul was talking about the Word of God:
Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law [God's Word] for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 ¶ For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law [God's Word], That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise [in God's Word], Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it [in God's Word]? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture [God's Word] saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 ¶ How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher [of God's Word]? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written [in God's Word], How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias [in God's Word] saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses [in God's Word] saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias [in God's Word] is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 ¶ But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

So the IMMEDIATE CONTEXT of Paul's quote is "the word of God." This is what he was talking about when he said "faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."

Is there any evidence Paul thought that the "stars" informed the Jews that Christ had come? No. There is not a single verse in the entire corpus of Paul's writings that confirm his interpretation of that verse. And worse, it brings up the fact that Paul appears to have been ignorant of the Gospel story about the star of Bethlehem, just as he shows no knowledge of the virgin birth, the empty tomb, or any of the facts of the life of Christ reported in the Gospels.

I listened to the whole video. I can see why you might think it is significant since you are inclined to believe, but I don't see anything objectively verifiable that would convince a rational skeptic. From everything I know, AD 33 was too late for the crucifixion. Numerology and astrology cannot trump solid historical facts.

All the best,

Richard

[jce]

Hey there Luke,

The idea that we are made "in the image of God/Consciousness" makes good sense to me. I am inclined towards the idea that consciousness is the "Ground of Being." But I don't think the idea of a "Theistic God" as a sort of super-human agent who goes about doing things make much sense. This is because something universal like God (infinite) cannot be particular (finite) like a person. If God is "all in all" he can't just be a part of the all.

The idea that we start out as a beast makes great sense from an evolutionary point of view.

Richard

Hello there Richard my evolved friend,

Funny that you should post that last sentence as I was discussing this very thing in church this morning. The point of the conversation was differentiating between the evolutionists view of man vs the Biblical view. To the Christian, man is the image of God, to the evolutionist, man is the image of the beast. Interesting.

Still your friend who may hug you someday, but refuses to kiss you.

John

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hello there Richard my evolved friend,

Funny that you should post that last sentence as I was discussing this very thing in church this morning. The point of the conversation was differentiating between the evolutionists view of man vs the Biblical view. To the Christian, man is the image of God, to the evolutionist, man is the image of the beast. Interesting.

Ever evolving, I would hope!

But your comment is not entirely accurate. Luke appears to be a Christian, and he is the one who said that we all begin as "the image of a beast."

Also, your use of the definite article "the" has the obvious overtones of "image of THE BEAST" of Revelation which is not a very nice thing to say to a friend, and you know it is not what evolutionists believe.

If you read my comment again, you will see that I was agreeing with Luke on both points. We have the "image of God" in as much as we are conscious, and we have the "image of a beast" in as much as we are evolving from the physical to the spiritual.



Still your friend who may hug you someday, but refuses to kiss you.

John
I was going to say you had to kiss me because it is commanded in Scripture, "Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss" (1 Thess 5:26). But then I realized you can't really call me a "brother" in the sense used in that verse, so you've got an out.

Still, it would be nice to meet you in person. Where do you live? I'm in Yakima, Wa.

[Timmy]

It's amusing CWH has a new favored 4 letter word he made into 5=grace: "craps."

Thank you Rose for the vid and the comments. Other vids that popped up at the end have already been viewed...and more.

"Near death" experience is what is close to what Timmy went through 3x in 1985, excepting there was flatlined brain activity and no breath or pulse.
Call all this opinion if you so choose, but it is opinion relative with personal experience. The last part of the video describing "not caring about "things" anymore and being more focused concerning relationships relative to the spiritual is true to form for Timmy at least.

You are spot on with the idea of one originating source to which all returns, "universal consciousness divine?", however in relation to homosapiens sapiens, here at least, the word "spirit" (of an Eastern mindset) is preferred over "consciousness." It more than explains being able to be and do more than two things at once at a quantum level in quantum terms.
(The whole quantum speculations they make is really hair-splitting trying to differentiate between molecular levels of existence and non-molecular.)

We, as one of our selfs has said, "we do indeed live in a more than 10 dimensional multi-verse"--(from a human perspective); however as Luke surmises, it is zero. We humans are operational on all levels of consciousness simultaneously, yet it is a matter of where we are able to focus our attention and personal powers of awareness that gives us the perceptions we assume to be reality (for our selfs at least).
For example, have you ever realized that you are dreaming while you are awake and doing whatever?
The human brain may not register it; but, then again, at least these scientists do recognize that the brain is not consciousness; but moreso a monitor-(perception) and activator-(physicalized volition) in regard to perspective.

When the scientists exploring consciousness begin to recognize that human attention decieves us into thinking that consciousness is awareness, rather than varied levels of attention&awareness parcel with consciousness, they will finally begin to progress further faster.

Cool thread:pop2:,

Timmy

p.s. Upon arriving home from the hospital (after dying), a book called "opening the third eye" arrived via a (now) former pact associate. It was not that this had not been done long before...consciously activating "pineal" activity, that is; but, the desire to return back to the death state is what was desired...of which that book accounts for yogi's who are buried for a hundred years or more, and upon being 'unburied", re-animate. It also gave clear hints how to achieve this.

Then, it occureed 'accidentally' a time or three before the research to consciously rationally achieve this state beyond simple OBEs.

Utilizing biorhythmic parameters of measurement, the experiments proceeded until success was achievable through focus on only a certain bi-naural sound & a certain symbol during sensory deprivation. After that, with practice, not even the sky was the limit...able to imagine symbol, sound and deprivation until the effects of that process were composed into a certain sigil representative of this...triggerable at whim.

(Tune into Akashic channel 11 for full details.)

There are alot more things possible than the materialistic man could ever concieve...much less believe.

[jce]

Ever evolving, I would hope!

But your comment is not entirely accurate. Luke appears to be a Christian, and he is the one who said that we all begin as "the image of a beast."

Also, your use of the definite article "the" has the obvious overtones of "image of THE BEAST" of Revelation which is not a very nice thing to say to a friend, and you know it is not what evolutionists believe.

If you read my comment again, you will see that I was agreeing with Luke on both points. We have the "image of God" in as much as we are conscious, and we have the "image of a beast" in as much as we are evolving from the physical to the spiritual.

Oops! I did not intend to imply the beast of Revelation, only that evolutionists claim that man was descended from beasts in general. Sorry.

John

PS: I wanted to add that any similarities between the Revelation Beast and the evolutionary ancestors of man is purely coincidental and the poster is innocent of any inaccurate conclusions drawn from same.

[luke1978]

Thankyou to all that have read my thoughts on this thread. Due to time constraints I will just update mt"decoding the old testament" thread and I'll try to answer Richards question's and explain this 666 to 777 conversion a bit better. I'm not actually calling anybody a beast but I'm talking about a spiritual transformation encoded in the bible. Anyway I'll use the other thread as a diary and feel free to follow along. Hopefully I may have time today whilst I'm at work. Thanks for your educated response Richard and I'm glad you do look at the information seriously.

[luke1978]

It's amusing CWH has a new favored 4 letter word he made into 5=grace: "craps."

Thank you Rose for the vid and the comments. Other vids that popped up at the end have already been viewed...and more.

"Near death" experience is what is close to what Timmy went through 3x in 1985, excepting there was flatlined brain activity and no breath or pulse.
Call all this opinion if you so choose, but it is opinion relative with personal experience. The last part of the video describing "not caring about "things" anymore and being more focused concerning relationships relative to the spiritual is true to form for Timmy at least.

You are spot on with the idea of one originating source to which all returns, "universal consciousness divine?", however in relation to homosapiens sapiens, here at least, the word "spirit" (of an Eastern mindset) is preferred over "consciousness." It more than explains being able to be and do more than two things at once at a quantum level in quantum terms.
(The whole quantum speculations they make is really hair-splitting trying to differentiate between molecular levels of existence and non-molecular.)

We, as one of our selfs has said, "we do indeed live in a more than 10 dimensional multi-verse"--(from a human perspective); however as Luke surmises, it is zero. We humans are operational on all levels of consciousness simultaneously, yet it is a matter of where we are able to focus our attention and personal powers of awareness that gives us the perceptions we assume to be reality (for our selfs at least).
For example, have you ever realized that you are dreaming while you are awake and doing whatever?
The human brain may not register it; but, then again, at least these scientists do recognize that the brain is not consciousness; but moreso a monitor-(perception) and activator-(physicalized volition) in regard to perspective.

When the scientists exploring consciousness begin to recognize that human attention decieves us into thinking that consciousness is awareness, rather than varied levels of attention&awareness parcel with consciousness, they will finally begin to progress further faster.

Cool thread:pop2:,

Timmy

p.s. Upon arriving home from the hospital (after dying), a book called "opening the third eye" arrived via a (now) former pact associate. It was not that this had not been done long before...consciously activating "pineal" activity, that is; but, the desire to return back to the death state is what was desired...of which that book accounts for yogi's who are buried for a hundred years or more, and upon being 'unburied", re-animate. It also gave clear hints how to achieve this.

Then, it occureed 'accidentally' a time or three before the research to consciously rationally achieve this state beyond simple OBEs.

Utilizing biorhythmic parameters of measurement, the experiments proceeded until success was achievable through focus on only a certain bi-naural sound & a certain symbol during sensory deprivation. After that, with practice, not even the sky was the limit...able to imagine symbol, sound and deprivation until the effects of that process were composed into a certain sigil representative of this...triggerable at whim.

(Tune into Akashic channel 11 for full details.)

There are alot more things possible than the materialistic man could ever concieve...much less believe.

Hi Timmy,

I'm interested to hear what happened when you died if anything?

I was lying on my bed in the afternoon about 10 years ago and suddenly I was up near the ceiling looking down. The lighting didn't change in the room and my mind felt the same as it normally does. Except I freaked as I was in shock and thought I died. As quickly as I thought that I was back in my body. If it was a hallucination it felt real enough.

Another time I was lying down and I shut my eyes and I noticed a pin point of light in the distance. It gradually grew bigger to about the size of a coin. Suddenly I fely myself vacuumed out at supersonic speed for a few seconds and again I snapped out of it.

Both these experiences are real to me but I'm not sure if it was a weird hallucination both times. Saying that it was a real as me typing this.

I'll talk about the 666 to 777 stuff in the other thread but I love talking about conciousness in general.

[Timmy]

Hey there CWH, when consciousness leaves the body, it is not unconsciousness.
It's more like non-bodily consciousness.

Hi Timmy,

I'm interested to hear what happened when you died if anything?

Ola' Luke!

For now we'll stick to the first experience only.

1985: A car trying to speed through a yellow light at approximately 38mph, hit this body which was pulled through the passenger side front wheel well of a Mercury Lynx economy car, and catapulted like a coin-tossed flipping quarter. Approximately 30 feet from initial impact, the feet first touched the ground and then flopped up and this head made the one point landing, the back of it smacking so hard against the hot pavement, it left a dent and a pool of blood in the road as the body scraped the pavement to a sharp short swift halt directly in front of a truck stopped at the then red light.

There was a tumbling and a snapping sensation that made consciousness realize we were no longer "attached" to that body, and with it came a sense of unbounded--(not-physically or emotionally oriented)--sense of freedom never before known...kinda' like "where are we going to go now and what shall we decide to do?"

Two guys got out and looked. One said, "There's nothing we can do but call the ambulance."
The other fellow said, "LOOK, he's still alive! ...and pointing his right hand index finger continued, "HE's TWITCHING!"
The first spoke back loudly, "That's just nerves. He's dead."

This scene was clearly observed from above cloud level. Beneath the clouds it was overcast, but this "conscousness" was observing that scene in complete sunshine....and without going into alot of detail further, most of the first death experience occured just like others have accounted in life after life books: at first complete confusion wondering who that guy was that was laying there dead feeling grief for him, then recognizing that was the carcass this spirit of the soul abode in...and the dark tunnel, like a funneling tornado turned top end facing you, then seeing the pristine light in the distance and wanting to pass beyond it...and having traveled past it, and continuing that way, ...[this part right here is not going to be spoken about]...then it seemed like a huge hand grabbed this spirit, and shoved it as if through a seive, back into that body laying on the pavement.

From then, the pain became so extreme, conscious awareness in the body became impossible, and it was left alone again....hovering overhead and watching, almost as if guarding this flesh.

The "black spiral corridor" in the funnel came into view again, but a voice (of that hand) said not to leave again. Leaving was still attempted, yet blocked by something unseen.

The body was returned into when the EMT's arrived and there was a fight against them moving it...but how much can a one usable legged, broken ribbed, severly bruised kidney injured person ward of two healthy strong 25+ year old guys, except get in a few solid punches until they strap your body an limbs into a full body brace, and strap you to a gurney?

They were told to leave 'me' alone, and then the pain grew so bad again, and again consciousness was hovering outside the body until the orthopedic surgeon in ER was smacked across the room into the wall after saying "Looks like we will have to amputate ."

Surgery then ended with a carpal scrape to reduce the swelling in the leg that was the size of about a watermelon (full length). The doctor after being knocked silly, re-evaluated and determined to wait and see, then after two days, attempt to repair the damage according to whatever x-rays warranted.

That whole incident was over 3.5 hours, and of that time, more than 40 minutes was recorded as flatline (in the ER).

[From that point on, things not physically visible to others were no longer always invisible here, and perspective concerning many things has changed considerably as a result of this.]





I was lying on my bed in the afternoon about 10 years ago and suddenly I was up near the ceiling looking down. The lighting didn't change in the room and my mind felt the same as it normally does. Except I freaked as I was in shock and thought I died. As quickly as I thought that I was back in my body. If it was a hallucination it felt real enough.

Another time I was lying down and I shut my eyes and I noticed a pin point of light in the distance. It gradually grew bigger to about the size of a coin. Suddenly I fely myself vacuumed out at supersonic speed for a few seconds and again I snapped out of it.

Both these experiences are real to me but I'm not sure if it was a weird hallucination both times. Saying that it was a real as me typing this.Oh it's real alright...yet, by whose standard and by what definition of reality????

(Doesn't 0 dimensions fit in nicely here?)

If it doesn't bother you, or if it does, from this perspective these related experiences can be accounted for a OOBE's, simply due to the emotions swaying the activities you have recounted. Though post-modern psychology fails to recognize human instincts, let's understand that with astral activity, it stems from emotive/instinctual activity (in these cases fear/self-preservation). As well, because it seems unreal, this could be due to either through the censorship of your own psyche and/or possibly the lack of rational control of the events you have revealed.

Astral movement and activity is strongly linked to the turning of the emotions, often in relation to 'instincts'.
Often the fear initiated through such unexpected experiences can become either a preventative, or at least a hinderance in accomplishing further activity on this field of awareness.


'I'll talk about the 666 to 777 stuff in the other thread but I love talking about conciousness in general.":woohoo:

Both are of extreme interest here, which also leads to watching and waiting for Rose and RAM and jce and wiki and you too CWH and any others to chime in about that video and the related what-not and wherefores:woah:
So, just remember, though if there could might possibly perhaps maybe or not be silence from this quarter...
We'll be :peep:ing.



The wyld wildcard,

Tim Timmy Tim Tim Tim

p.s. Luke, your writings here are a welcomed pleasure to read. :winking0071:Please keep it going :yes:
:prophet:...just don't let feelings take from or get the best of you here:break:

[luke1978]

Hey there CWH, when consciousness leaves the body, it is not unconsciousness.
It's more like non-bodily consciousness.


Ola' Luke!

For now we'll stick to the first experience only.

1985: A car trying to speed through a yellow light at approximately 38mph, hit this body which was pulled through the passenger side front wheel well of a Mercury Lynx economy car, and catapulted like a coin-tossed flipping quarter. Approximately 30 feet from initial impact, the feet first touched the ground and then flopped up and this head made the one point landing, the back of it smacking so hard against the hot pavement, it left a dent and a pool of blood in the road as the body scraped the pavement to a sharp short swift halt directly in front of a truck stopped at the then red light.

There was a tumbling and a snapping sensation that made consciousness realize we were no longer "attached" to that body, and with it came a sense of unbounded--(not-physically or emotionally oriented)--sense of freedom never before known...kinda' like "where are we going to go now and what shall we decide to do?"

Two guys got out and looked. One said, "There's nothing we can do but call the ambulance."
The other fellow said, "LOOK, he's still alive! ...and pointing his right hand index finger continued, "HE's TWITCHING!"
The first spoke back loudly, "That's just nerves. He's dead."

This scene was clearly observed from above cloud level. Beneath the clouds it was overcast, but this "conscousness" was observing that scene in complete sunshine....and without going into alot of detail further, most of the first death experience occured just like others have accounted in life after life books: at first complete confusion wondering who that guy was that was laying there dead feeling grief for him, then recognizing that was the carcass this spirit of the soul abode in...and the dark tunnel, like a funneling tornado turned top end facing you, then seeing the pristine light in the distance and wanting to pass beyond it...and having traveled past it, and continuing that way, ...[this part right here is not going to be spoken about]...then it seemed like a huge hand grabbed this spirit, and shoved it as if through a seive, back into that body laying on the pavement.

From then, the pain became so extreme, conscious awareness in the body became impossible, and it was left alone again....hovering overhead and watching, almost as if guarding this flesh.

The "black spiral corridor" in the funnel came into view again, but a voice (of that hand) said not to leave again. Leaving was still attempted, yet blocked by something unseen.

The body was returned into when the EMT's arrived and there was a fight against them moving it...but how much can a one usable legged, broken ribbed, severly bruised kidney injured person ward of two healthy strong 25+ year old guys, except get in a few solid punches until they strap your body an limbs into a full body brace, and strap you to a gurney?

They were told to leave 'me' alone, and then the pain grew so bad again, and again consciousness was hovering outside the body until the orthopedic surgeon in ER was smacked across the room into the wall after saying "Looks like we will have to amputate ."

Surgery then ended with a carpal scrape to reduce the swelling in the leg that was the size of about a watermelon (full length). The doctor after being knocked silly, re-evaluated and determined to wait and see, then after two days, attempt to repair the damage according to whatever x-rays warranted.

That whole incident was over 3.5 hours, and of that time, more than 40 minutes was recorded as flatline (in the ER).

[From that point on, things not physically visible to others were no longer always invisible here, and perspective concerning many things has changed considerably as a result of this.]




Oh it's real alright...yet, by whose standard and by what definition of reality????

(Doesn't 0 dimensions fit in nicely here?)

If it doesn't bother you, or if it does, from this perspective these related experiences can be accounted for a OOBE's, simply due to the emotions swaying the activities you have recounted. Though post-modern psychology fails to recognize human instincts, let's understand that with astral activity, it stems from emotive/instinctual activity (in these cases fear/self-preservation). As well, because it seems unreal, this could be due to either through the censorship of your own psyche and/or possibly the lack of rational control of the events you have revealed.

Astral movement and activity is strongly linked to the turning of the emotions, often in relation to 'instincts'.
Often the fear initiated through such unexpected experiences can become either a preventative, or at least a hinderance in accomplishing further activity on this field of awareness.

:woohoo:

Both are of extreme interest here, which also leads to watching and waiting for Rose and RAM and jce and wiki and you too CWH and any others to chime in about that video and the related what-not and wherefores:woah:
So, just remember, though if there could might possibly perhaps maybe or not be silence from this quarter...
We'll be :peep:ing.



The wyld wildcard,

Tim Timmy Tim Tim Tim

p.s. Luke, your writings here are a welcomed pleasure to read. :winking0071:Please keep it going :yes:
:prophet:...just don't let feelings take from or get the best of you here:break:

Hi Timmy,

Quite an interesting experience to read. One of my worst fears is getting cleaned up on the road. Everyday I hear of at least one fatality here in Queensland(One of 6 states and 2 territories), Australia and several nation-wide. The road is just so crazy and things can happen in an instant! - Sounds like you lived through one of my worst fears.

Due to the NDE are you glad you had the experience? - Like does it give you more peace of mind around the death and dying process? - Many atheists just say when your dead your dead but do you feel now you know for sure it's not the end?

How real did you find being out of the body? - Was it seconds, minutes or hours of actual coherrent experience?

Did you notice your surroundings? - There was an NDE by a woman called Pam Reynolds and she could clearly see all the instruments whilst clinically dead. It was a special sort of surgery and about 2 out of 5 people who have had that surgery have reported the same thing.

I must admit these NDE's seem to go against my 0 dimensions theory as you are still experiencing a 3D experience. Unless we are all in a singularity that has created for itself 3 dimensions. Everything is so bizarre to be honest. They talk about the big bang and apparently they may have found the "God particle" but my experience has been more like a "Big wow" - Life started out as a dream to be honest. Oneday I was 4 years old living in my birth city of Melbourne Australia and I just started playing along with this life. The world seemed so big back then. Not many people think about this stuff. I need a bourbon and coke now!!!

PS: One of the reasons I remain a Christian even though much of the new age stuff sounds attractive and simple is because of the suffering in the world. Yes where I live is paradise in a way and I can eat, sleep and be merry if I want too. But I feel guilty about the 6 billion in the world that are not fortunate like us Aussies. People are actually starving to death. I think it is Neale Donald Walsche who says we chose this. I just cannot see it. Who would choose to starve to death? - Or like you get thrown out of a car?

Something seems not right with the world and that is why I believe Jesus came to save us and died the way he did(As well as rising again 3 days later). I think he wanted to show us there is more to it then just being flesh and blood.

[Timmy]

Hi Timmy,

Quite an interesting experience to read. One of my worst fears is getting cleaned up on the road. Everyday I hear of at least one fatality here in Queensland(One of 6 states and 2 territories), Australia and several nation-wide. The road is just so crazy and things can happen in an instant! - Sounds like you lived through one of my worst fears.

Due to the NDE are you glad you had the experience? - Like does it give you more peace of mind around the death and dying process? - Many atheists just say when your dead your dead but do you feel now you know for sure it's not the end?

How real did you find being out of the body? - Was it seconds, minutes or hours of actual coherrent experience?

Did you notice your surroundings? - There was an NDE by a woman called Pam Reynolds and she could clearly see all the instruments whilst clinically dead. It was a special sort of surgery and about 2 out of 5 people who have had that surgery have reported the same thing.

I must admit these NDE's seem to go against my 0 dimensions theory as you are still experiencing a 3D experience. Unless we are all in a singularity that has created for itself 3 dimensions. Everything is so bizarre to be honest. They talk about the big bang and apparently they may have found the "God particle" but my experience has been more like a "Big wow" - Life started out as a dream to be honest. Oneday I was 4 years old living in my birth city of Melbourne Australia and I just started playing along with this life. The world seemed so big back then. Not many people think about this stuff. I need a bourbon and coke now!!!

Hi again Luke.

Actually, the NDe's are not at all 3 dimensional, but rather best decribed through that lens as those who have not been there and done that cannot really comprehend what is actually occuring during such. They hardly buck against your "theory," and rather confirm it.
Examples?
Let's just look at the vision factor:You can see every direction simultaneously yet foci dictates. You can see under and around and through things and distances unimaginable in 5 dimensions...and more...like "seeing" peoples words through their brain activity, etc.

Bodily caged, many of these things just do not usually happen.

Surroundings were more than just noticed.

Your feared experience was lived through here and more. Now there is much more realized i do not understand beyond what people like yourself thinks they do not know. It's all available, yet the road to get the stuff is often uncharted territory.

When in intensive care, an "Angel of the Lord" appeared for a moment and terrified this mind so bad, the body could not handle it and though most everything bodily was already malfunctioning, what was functioning would then intermitttently go on the fritz as well.

No longer fearing death, the desire was to just be over with this--by comparison:pallid grey--world...yet the greater fear of the angel stopped any intentioned doing to that end knowing that the nearly instantaneous appearance/disappearance and one hand gestured order to me, was directly related to being shoved back into this body in the first place.

Actually, death is now anticipated, and since the NDE have done many things walking away nearly unscathed, whereas others would not. Some say my life is charmed. Many say either, "Somebody up their likes you" or stuff like, "G_d has a special purpose for your life" (as if this is not the same fact true for all). Many have nick-named or call my me "lucky" for this reason.

As far as coherency goes, at times yes, more than physical coherency and there were times no, not coherent at all. Awareness and Attention are not a fixed state of consciousness, but it is more relative to what i like to term as "second attention" while physical. You know, those things you sometimes think you see out of the corner of the eye, but if one looks to focus on what was thought to be seen is not there? Well, consider that type of physical "second attention" being first attention and physical things being the "second attention" yet whatever "dimension(s)" is/are more than clearly seem when consciousness attention warrants. Reflecting back, that first experience of NDE, it seems it might have been the fading in and out of bodily consciousness to be directly related to clarity, sometimes on again, sometimes off, sometimes in a type of fugue state between the two.

No there is no longer any (spurious) satisfaction that the experience occured. Rather, it is a greater responsibility to walk as Yah will have it weighs in this conscious. Would this life experience be change if it could be done? This is doubted, but then again, it is a hypothetical question.

"Life started out as a dream" you say, and we are close in this.
Big bang nothing and a specific God particle is nonsense.
About the big world at four could not be agreed with more, but think of the even bigger world view through the eyes of any NDE survivors.

Sincerely,
Nobody particularily special
in a gammut of singularity
beyond our comprehension,
and just another thought in the mind of G_d,

Timmy

[luke1978]

Hey there CWH, when consciousness leaves the body, it is not unconsciousness.
It's more like non-bodily consciousness.


Ola' Luke!

For now we'll stick to the first experience only.

1985: A car trying to speed through a yellow light at approximately 38mph, hit this body which was pulled through the passenger side front wheel well of a Mercury Lynx economy car, and catapulted like a coin-tossed flipping quarter. Approximately 30 feet from initial impact, the feet first touched the ground and then flopped up and this head made the one point landing, the back of it smacking so hard against the hot pavement, it left a dent and a pool of blood in the road as the body scraped the pavement to a sharp short swift halt directly in front of a truck stopped at the then red light.

There was a tumbling and a snapping sensation that made consciousness realize we were no longer "attached" to that body, and with it came a sense of unbounded--(not-physically or emotionally oriented)--sense of freedom never before known...kinda' like "where are we going to go now and what shall we decide to do?"

Two guys got out and looked. One said, "There's nothing we can do but call the ambulance."
The other fellow said, "LOOK, he's still alive! ...and pointing his right hand index finger continued, "HE's TWITCHING!"
The first spoke back loudly, "That's just nerves. He's dead."

This scene was clearly observed from above cloud level. Beneath the clouds it was overcast, but this "conscousness" was observing that scene in complete sunshine....and without going into alot of detail further, most of the first death experience occured just like others have accounted in life after life books: at first complete confusion wondering who that guy was that was laying there dead feeling grief for him, then recognizing that was the carcass this spirit of the soul abode in...and the dark tunnel, like a funneling tornado turned top end facing you, then seeing the pristine light in the distance and wanting to pass beyond it...and having traveled past it, and continuing that way, ...[this part right here is not going to be spoken about]...then it seemed like a huge hand grabbed this spirit, and shoved it as if through a seive, back into that body laying on the pavement.

From then, the pain became so extreme, conscious awareness in the body became impossible, and it was left alone again....hovering overhead and watching, almost as if guarding this flesh.

The "black spiral corridor" in the funnel came into view again, but a voice (of that hand) said not to leave again. Leaving was still attempted, yet blocked by something unseen.

The body was returned into when the EMT's arrived and there was a fight against them moving it...but how much can a one usable legged, broken ribbed, severly bruised kidney injured person ward of two healthy strong 25+ year old guys, except get in a few solid punches until they strap your body an limbs into a full body brace, and strap you to a gurney?

They were told to leave 'me' alone, and then the pain grew so bad again, and again consciousness was hovering outside the body until the orthopedic surgeon in ER was smacked across the room into the wall after saying "Looks like we will have to amputate ."

Surgery then ended with a carpal scrape to reduce the swelling in the leg that was the size of about a watermelon (full length). The doctor after being knocked silly, re-evaluated and determined to wait and see, then after two days, attempt to repair the damage according to whatever x-rays warranted.

That whole incident was over 3.5 hours, and of that time, more than 40 minutes was recorded as flatline (in the ER).

[From that point on, things not physically visible to others were no longer always invisible here, and perspective concerning many things has changed considerably as a result of this.]




Oh it's real alright...yet, by whose standard and by what definition of reality????

(Doesn't 0 dimensions fit in nicely here?)

If it doesn't bother you, or if it does, from this perspective these related experiences can be accounted for a OOBE's, simply due to the emotions swaying the activities you have recounted. Though post-modern psychology fails to recognize human instincts, let's understand that with astral activity, it stems from emotive/instinctual activity (in these cases fear/self-preservation). As well, because it seems unreal, this could be due to either through the censorship of your own psyche and/or possibly the lack of rational control of the events you have revealed.

Astral movement and activity is strongly linked to the turning of the emotions, often in relation to 'instincts'.
Often the fear initiated through such unexpected experiences can become either a preventative, or at least a hinderance in accomplishing further activity on this field of awareness.

:woohoo:

Both are of extreme interest here, which also leads to watching and waiting for Rose and RAM and jce and wiki and you too CWH and any others to chime in about that video and the related what-not and wherefores:woah:
So, just remember, though if there could might possibly perhaps maybe or not be silence from this quarter...
We'll be :peep:ing.



The wyld wildcard,

Tim Timmy Tim Tim Tim

p.s. Luke, your writings here are a welcomed pleasure to read. :winking0071:Please keep it going :yes:
:prophet:...just don't let feelings take from or get the best of you here:break:


Hi again Luke.

Actually, the NDe's are not at all 3 dimensional, but rather best decribed through that lens as those who have not been there and done that cannot really comprehend what is actually occuring during such. They hardly buck against your "theory," and rather confirm it.
Examples?
Let's just look at the vision factor:You can see every direction simultaneously yet foci dictates. You can see under and around and through things and distances unimaginable in 5 dimensions...and more...like "seeing" peoples words through their brain activity, etc.

Bodily caged, many of these things just do not usually happen.

Surroundings were more than just noticed.

Your feared experience was lived through here and more. Now there is much more realized i do not understand beyond what people like yourself thinks they do not know. It's all available, yet the road to get the stuff is often uncharted territory.

When in intensive care, an "Angel of the Lord" appeared for a moment and terrified this mind so bad, the body could not handle it and though most everything bodily was already malfunctioning, what was functioning would then intermitttently go on the fritz as well.

No longer fearing death, the desire was to just be over with this--by comparison:pallid grey--world...yet the greater fear of the angel stopped any intentioned doing to that end knowing that the nearly instantaneous appearance/disappearance and one hand gestured order to me, was directly related to being shoved back into this body in the first place.

Actually, death is now anticipated, and since the NDE have done many things walking away nearly unscathed, whereas others would not. Some say my life is charmed. Many say either, "Somebody up their likes you" or stuff like, "G_d has a special purpose for your life" (as if this is not the same fact true for all). Many have nick-named or call my me "lucky" for this reason.

As far as coherency goes, at times yes, more than physical coherency and there were times no, not coherent at all. Awareness and Attention are not a fixed state of consciousness, but it is more relative to what i like to term as "second attention" while physical. You know, those things you sometimes think you see out of the corner of the eye, but if one looks to focus on what was thought to be seen is not there? Well, consider that type of physical "second attention" being first attention and physical things being the "second attention" yet whatever "dimension(s)" is/are more than clearly seem when consciousness attention warrants. Reflecting back, that first experience of NDE, it seems it might have been the fading in and out of bodily consciousness to be directly related to clarity, sometimes on again, sometimes off, sometimes in a type of fugue state between the two.

No there is no longer any (spurious) satisfaction that the experience occured. Rather, it is a greater responsibility to walk as Yah will have it weighs in this conscious. Would this life experience be change if it could be done? This is doubted, but then again, it is a hypothetical question.

"Life started out as a dream" you say, and we are close in this.
Big bang nothing and a specific God particle is nonsense.
About the big world at four could not be agreed with more, but think of the even bigger world view through the eyes of any NDE survivors.

Sincerely,
Nobody particularily special
in a gammut of singularity
beyond our comprehension,
and just another thought in the mind of G_d,

Timmy

Hi Timmy,

Thanks for sharing your experience. I have read many NDE's but I have never spoken to someone who had one so it has been a blessing. I guess I should just live the miracle!

regards

Luke

[Timmy]

Hi Timmy,

Thanks for sharing your experience. I have read many NDE's but I have never spoken to someone who had one so it has been a blessing. I guess I should just live the miracle!

regards

Luke
You are quite welcome.

There were other things which were attempted to be related but were somehow lost when attempting to submit a first reply. We'll take this as best left unsaid and leave it at that...except:
1)There is a heaven
'seperate from'
2)(paradise) and the dark black hotter than hot side of that place...under the earth.

It's awesome you see that this is an NDE and not the actual finality of death.


Best understandings to you,

Timmy

[CWH]

I had 2 NDE which describes myself as a black body going though a dark tube and then suddenly returned. It is in this thread which is intended to share experiences in NDE and OBE. Such experience convinces me that there is life after death and that there is a purpose for our existence.

http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?2397-Is-there-life-after-death

May God Bless us.:pray:

[David M]

Even prophecy is really just God encoding into the text what he knows will happen. I don't think God wanted to destroy Jerusalem in AD70 but I do know the 70 weeks prophecy using the same maths that gets you to the restoration of Israel in 1948 is amazing! - God does all this to point us to Jesus.


Hello Luke
I also see the restoration of the nation of Israel in the purpose of God. God said he would never make a full end of Israel and would regather them after he cast them off. Can you give the evidence for the calculation that brings you to the date of 1948 and which prophecy the year 1948 is calulated from? I have not kept a record on file or have the books from which of all these pieces of evidence I have come to accept. I know Richard is asking for proof of eveything I say, and this will be one piece of the jigsaw you can shed some light on.

Another subject I would like to bring up with you is from your later post;

Israel restoration prophecy:
http://www.khouse.org/articles/2000/276/print/
70 weeks prophecy:
The same Maths above gets you from 444BC to 33AD. I cannot find the link. Do you already know about the calculation of the 69 weeks with the 360 day years? - I'll get you a link if you don't.
The only point I want to find agreement on is the year of the crucifixion. The year AD31 has been derived by someone else for the reason given that the High Sabbath had to occur on particular day for Jesus to be in the tomb 3 full days and nights making a 72 hour period fitting in with Jesus rising at the end of Sabbath. I just wondered what you thought of this date AD31 knowing your interest in numbers.

All the best,

David

[luke1978]

Hello Luke
I also see the restoration of the nation of Israel in the purpose of God. God said he would never make a full end of Israel and would regather them after he cast them off. Can you give the evidence for the calculation that brings you to the date of 1948 and which prophecy the year 1948 is calulated from? I have not kept a record on file or have the books from which of all these pieces of evidence I have come to accept. I know Richard is asking for proof of eveything I say, and this will be one piece of the jigsaw you can shed some light on.

Another subject I would like to bring up with you is from your later post;

The only point I want to find agreement on is the year of the crucifixion. The year AD31 has been derived by someone else for the reason given that the High Sabbath had to occur on particular day for Jesus to be in the tomb 3 full days and nights making a 72 hour period fitting in with Jesus rising at the end of Sabbath. I just wondered what you thought of this date AD31 knowing your interest in numbers.

All the best,

David

Hi David,

Please watch all these segments:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6483B6E161161915&feature=plcp

Just as a disclaimer I disagree with a few points in this video but it's spot on the mark with much of what I believe. Also when he explains the use of 360 day years please also add the fact that Daniel 9:24-27 has 360 letters and 86 words(86 = God in Hebrew and 360 seems to validate the 360 day year. There are other reasons for the 360 day year as you will soon find out.

I disagree with the start date of 445 BC. 444BC or 445BC qualifies but if you watch the star of bethlehem video you will see that it MUST be 444BC. I like 444BC as it is 888 divided into 2. 888 = Jesus in Greek gematria! - See below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGeSRyzN49Q

Israel Prophecy Maths in this link below:

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2000/276/print/


I want to add something very important:

Revelation 3:20

New International Version (NIV)

20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.


--If you read the bible spiritually you can experience the "unveiling" in your mind which is what Revelation means. There is enough war in this world without hoping God pours out wrath. Prophecy does get fulfilled literally as God knows the future but receive the guidance of your father in heaven now and break open the 7 seals with Christ. He already unlocked it and was the only one who could. When you accept Jesus you are in him and he is in you and he is one with the father--

Any one of us could meet our own end times on any given day. Make yourself right with God. Sounds like you already have.