Burnt with Fire!

[duxrow]

:sFi_flamethrower:
Judah, a lead figure in the pedigree of Jesus, sentenced Tamar to be "burnt w fire", Gen38, after she was found to be pregnant .

Was this a death sentence? Was she to be tied to a stake or doused w flammables? At this point in time, the Book of Leviticus hadn't yet been written.

And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." Lev21:9.

The Talmud reportedly calls for this burning by burying the harlot up to her neck; then two witnesses pull on a rope around her neck, while the executioner ladles molten metal down her throat! :arghh:

Tamar wasn't a practitioner of the Oldest Profession and seems to have good reasons for her actions -- she'd been promised a husband but Judah was procrastinating. And, as Judah learned, he himself was the reason for her pregnancy! :eek:

[Richard Amiel McGough]

:sFi_flamethrower:
Judah, a lead figure in the pedigree of Jesus, sentenced Tamar to be "burnt w fire", Gen38, after she was found to be pregnant .

Was this a death sentence? Was she to be tied to a stake or doused w flammables? At this point in time, the Book of Leviticus hadn't yet been written.

And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." Lev21:9.

The Talmud reportedly calls for this burning by burying the harlot up to her neck; then two witnesses pull on a rope around her neck, while the executioner ladles molten metal down her throat! :arghh:

Tamar wasn't a practitioner of the Oldest Profession and seems to have good reasons for her actions -- she'd been promised a husband but Judah was procrastinating. And, as Judah learned, he himself was the reason for her pregnancy! :eek:

This demonstrates, yet again, the gross abuse of women in the Bible. Judah and Tamar had sex with each other, but no one said Judah should be burned!

[duxrow]

This demonstrates, yet again, the gross abuse of women in the Bible. Judah and Tamar had sex with each other, but no one said Judah should be burned!

Wouldn't say it like that, 'cause there was purpose (not sex) behind her action at that crossroad..
And BTW Ram, in all the excitement over your 10^4 post, it seems my poem Road to Damascus got buried -- maybe it could be resurrected?

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Wouldn't say it like that, 'cause there was purpose (not sex) behind her action at that crossroad..
And BTW Ram, in all the excitement over your 10^4 post, it seems my poem Road to Damascus got buried -- maybe it could be resurrected?
But her "purpose" was not the reason Judah said she should be burned. They had different standards for men and women. They were very unjust.

I saw your post and was going to comment, but got distracted. I'll check it out.

[duxrow]

But her "purpose" was not the reason Judah said she should be burned. They had different standards for men and women. They were very unjust.

I saw your post and was going to comment, but got distracted. I'll check it out.

She was a widow, w/o children, like in Deut 25:5 If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her.

Later, Judah's son Shelah apparently DID marry Tamar and named their first son Er, 1Chr4:21.

Granted, Gen38 is prior to Law of Moses -- all the more curious?

[Richard Amiel McGough]

She was a widow, w/o children, like in Deut 25:5 If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her.

Later, Judah's son Shelah apparently DID marry Tamar and named their first son Er, 1Chr4:21.

Granted, Gen38 is prior to Law of Moses -- all the more curious?
How does that relate to the great inequity that Judah said she should be burned, whereas no similar judgment was placed upon him for the same sin?

[duxrow]

How does that relate to the great inequity that Judah said she should be burned, whereas no similar judgment was placed upon him for the same sin?

I don't disagree w how women get the worst of it in LIFE as well as the Bible. Or at least they 'use to', and the child-bearing part is no picnic..
My take on these stories is how they're meant for us to apply in the new covenant, which says they "were for our learning".

Tks for the bump:signthankspin:

[Beck]

Why would God kill Onan? For that matter why would God kill the son's of Judah for not taken Tamar as wife and bearing childern? Why would Tamar have to go back to her father's house? Was it not the responiblity of Judah and his sons to take care of her?

Instead of waiting for the last son of Judah to become of age and marry Tamar she planned to force Judah into providing for her. So that her father be not shamed and having to provide for her as a widow. Why wouldn't God kill Judah? Even Judah said that she was more righteous than himself.

[duxrow]

Why would God kill Onan? For that matter why would God kill the son's of Judah for not taken Tamar as wife and bearing childern? Why would Tamar have to go back to her father's house? Was it not the responiblity of Judah and his sons to take care of her?

Instead of waiting for the last son of Judah to become of age and marry Tamar she planned to force Judah into providing for her. So that her father be not shamed and having to provide for her as a widow. Why wouldn't God kill Judah? Even Judah said that she was more righteous than himself.

:yo: Hi Beck,
The lesson here may be 'procrastinating'. Judah had given his word, but not his son, while the widow grew older. God is one who keeps his Word and wants us to keep ours, and maybe even to 'be quick about it'. ha.

http://www.cswnet.com/~duxrow/webdoc52.htm

[Rose]

Why would God kill Onan? For that matter why would God kill the son's of Judah for not taken Tamar as wife and bearing childern? Why would Tamar have to go back to her father's house? Was it not the responiblity of Judah and his sons to take care of her?

Instead of waiting for the last son of Judah to become of age and marry Tamar she planned to force Judah into providing for her. So that her father be not shamed and having to provide for her as a widow. Why wouldn't God kill Judah? Even Judah said that she was more righteous than himself.

These are the inconsistencies and male-bias that we see all throughout the Bible and the reason that I say the Bible could not be the word of God. We see Yahweh striking Onan dead for spilling his seed on the ground, yet on the other hand Judah commits whoredom and implants his seed in Tamar then calls for Tamar's death by burning...:confused: Earlier there is the case of Lot who offers up his two daughters to the angry mob in Sodom and there is not so much as a slap on the wrist from Yahweh for that...:confused: Or the case of the man who offers up his concubine to the men who want his male house guest - they take his concubine and rape her to death and Yahweh is nowhere to be found...:confused: And what about King David...he commits adultery and has Uriah killed...his punishment from Yahweh is the death of his firstborn...:confused: and on and on it goes...

[David M]

These are the inconsistencies and male-bias that we see all throughout the Bible and the reason that I say the Bible could not be the word of God. We see Yahweh striking Onan dead for spilling his seed on the ground, yet on the other hand Judah commits whoredom and implants his seed in Tamar then calls for Tamar's death by burning...:confused: Earlier there is the case of Lot who offers up his two daughters to the angry mob in Sodom and there is not so much as a slap on the wrist from Yahweh for that...:confused: Or the case of the man who offers up his concubine to the men who want his male house guest - they take his concubine and rape her to death and Yahweh is nowhere to be found...:confused: And what about King David...he commits adultery and has Uriah killed...his punishment from Yahweh is the death of his firstborn...:confused: and on and on it goes...

MOTIVES!!!

Only God can really know people's motives. Only God can really know what is in people's hearts. God's judgment is according to motives. To answer the above questions, you have to look at the people's motives. Doing so will not be as perfect as God's inspection, but it will be a start.


Psalm 7:9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins. 10 My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.

Psalm 13: 5 But I have trusted in thy mercy; my heart shall rejoice in thy salvation.

Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

Psalm 15:2 He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.

Psalm 17:3 Thou hast proved mine heart; thou hast visited me in the night; thou hast tried me, and shalt find nothing; I am purposed that my mouth shall not transgress.

Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Psalm 24: 3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place? 4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.

Psalm 26:2 Examine me, O LORD, and prove me; try my reins and my heart.

Psalm 27:8 When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek.

Psalm 34:18 The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.

Psalm 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Psalm 44:21 Shall not God search this out? for he knoweth the secrets of the heart.

Psalm 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

Psalm 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Psalm 66:18 If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:

Psalm 119:7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.

Psalm 139:23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: 24 And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.



What will God see in each of one of us as to our motives when suscribing to this forum for example?

David

[duxrow]

:sFun_banghead2:
Understanding the difference between the Author of the Book and the god-of-this-planet, may be essential here.

No "forcing" apparent, and nothing known about Tamar's family. Setting the stage (precepts) of marriage, and how our 'brother' JESUS died w/o "fruit", so we may raise up His Name when we're fruitful. The 2 Covenants involved also, and Judah is important to the Pedigree. :yo:

[Beck]

These are the inconsistencies and male-bias that we see all throughout the Bible and the reason that I say the Bible could not be the word of God. We see Yahweh striking Onan dead for spilling his seed on the ground, yet on the other hand Judah commits whoredom and implants his seed in Tamar then calls for Tamar's death by burning...:confused: Earlier there is the case of Lot who offers up his two daughters to the angry mob in Sodom and there is not so much as a slap on the wrist from Yahweh for that...:confused: Or the case of the man who offers up his concubine to the men who want his male house guest - they take his concubine and rape her to death and Yahweh is nowhere to be found...:confused: And what about King David...he commits adultery and has Uriah killed...his punishment from Yahweh is the death of his firstborn...:confused: and on and on it goes...

Yeap, I guess there is no answer for that....Men Rule :thumb:

[duxrow]

Yeap, I guess there is no answer for that....Men Rule :thumb:
:sombrero2:
Absitively, Beck. I RUN THINGS at my house: like the vacuum cleaner, washing machine, etc. Really, the men better look out 'cause women are moving on..
Could be the first covenant was showing how STRONG MEN are eventually surpassed by FRUITFUL WIVES of the 2nd (New) Covenant. hmm? :rolleyes: