Is the Bible a Test?

[Richard Amiel McGough]

For nearly two decades I was completely enamored with the Bible. Every time I opened it, it felt like God was talking to me. It was always fresh, new, and alive - the Living Word.

I felt that I had an unfair advantage over other Christians who thought they must either justify everything in the Bible or admit that it wasn't really "God's Word." The Bible Wheel gave me an alternative. I could confidently state that the Bible was "God's Book" without imposing the false man-made doctrine that it contained no errors. I always held that God was free to produce whatever kind of book would serve his purposes, and given that the Bible was filled with apparent contradictions and errors, I simply accepted that as part of God's purpose. I understood it as God giving the believer everything needed to believe, and the unbeliever everything needed to not believe.

I think this is the highest view of Scripture. It is the view that accepts the Bible as given, warts and all. It doesn't try to "correct it" as if God were an incompetent author. Sure, there are many things that are mere misunderstandings and not errors or contradictions. Those things should be explained. But there are many things that are just flat out wrong, contradictory, and morally abominable. Therefore, if we assume that the Bible is from God and we also admit that it contains errors, falsehoods, and moral abominations, then it seems we must understand it as a TEST from God. It is a test to reveal those who love TRUTH and RIGHTEOUSNESS over the false man-made dogmas that say the Bible is the "inerrant and infallible Word of God."

As a confirmation of this view, I note that folks who try to justify everything in the Bible typically show themselves willing to pervert truth, twist words, and and hide facts in a vain effort to accomplish their purpose. In my experience, fundamentalists who adhere to the dogma of an inerrant and infallible Bible are the least likely to admit what it actually states. What could be more ironic? They have failed the test in a most spectacular way.

How's that for a twist?

[Rose]

For nearly two decades I was completely enamored with the Bible. Every time I opened it, it felt like God was talking to me. It was always fresh, new, and alive - the Living Word.

I felt that I had an unfair advantage over other Christians who thought they must either justify everything in the Bible or admit that it wasn't really "God's Word." The Bible Wheel gave me an alternative. I could confidently state that the Bible was "God's Book" without imposing the false man-made doctrine that it contained no errors. I always held that God was free to produce whatever kind of book would serve his purposes, and given that the Bible was filled with apparent contradictions and errors, I simply accepted that as part of God's purpose. I understood it as God giving the believer everything needed to believe, and the unbeliever everything needed to not believe.

I think this is the highest view of Scripture. It is the view that accepts the Bible as given, warts and all. It doesn't try to "correct it" as if God were an incompetent author. Sure, there are many things that are mere misunderstandings and not errors or contradictions. Those things should be explained. But there are many things that are just flat out wrong, contradictory, and morally abominable. Therefore, if we assume that the Bible is from God and we also admit that it contains errors, falsehoods, and moral abominations, then it seems we must understand it as a TEST from God. It is a test to reveal those who love TRUTH and RIGHTEOUSNESS over the false man-made dogmas that say the Bible is the "inerrant and infallible Word of God."

As a confirmation of this view, I note that folks who try to justify everything in the Bible typically show themselves willing to pervert truth, twist words, and and hide facts in a vain effort to accomplish their purpose. In my experience, fundamentalists who adhere to the dogma of an inerrant and infallible Bible are the least likely to admit what it actually states. What could be more ironic? They have failed the test in a most spectacular way.

How's that for a twist?

The reason I could never accept the view that the Bible is a test from God, is the fact that there are far too many gullible and ignorant people who take the Bible for what it says, and in so doing have destroyed the lives countless peoples. So, if God did set up a test as such, he would do so knowing it would be misinterpreted, therefore causing much harm.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

The reason I could never accept the view that the Bible is a test from God, is the fact that there are far too many gullible and ignorant people who take the Bible for what it says, and in so doing have destroyed the lives countless peoples. So, if God did set up a test as such, he would do so knowing it would be misinterpreted, therefore causing much harm.
That's a very good point. If it is a test, it has a pretty nasty effect on those who fail since it misguides them to do all sorts of evil and everyone suffers.

[CWH]

That's a very good point. If it is a test, it has a pretty nasty effect on those who fail since it misguides them to do all sorts of evil and everyone suffers.

Who is tobe blamed? Is it God or the misguided ones taking the test? It's like a student taking the examination and failed if he did not understand the exam questions or did not read the exam questions carefully or was not diligent to prepare himself by studying hard for the exam. Who then was to be blamed for the failure? the one who sit for the examination or the one who set the examination questions?

God Blessings to all. :pray:

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Who is tobe blamed? Is it God or the misguided ones taking the test? It's like a student taking the examination and failed if he did not understand the exam questions or did not read the exam questions carefully or was not diligent to prepare himself by studying hard for the exam. Who then was to be blamed for the failure? the one who sit for the examination or the one who set the examination questions?

God Blessings to all. :pray:
The author of the test is morally responsible if he designed his test knowing that the ignorant humans would misunderstand it and that it would lead to immoral actions.

[David M]

Originally Posted by RAM
That's a very good point. If it is a test, it has a pretty nasty effect on those who fail since it misguides them to do all sorts of evil and everyone suffers.
Who is to be blamed? Is it God or the misguided ones taking the test? It's like a student taking the examination and failed if he did not understand the exam questions or did not read the exam questions carefully or was not diligent to prepare himself by studying hard for the exam. Who then was to be blamed for the failure? the one who sit for the examination or the one who set the examination questions?

God Blessings to all. :pray:

Hello Ricard and Cheow

I agree with Richard's later answer that God is responsible for setting the test. Adam and Eve were responsible for failing the test. God was responsible for punishing Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve received punishment for disobedience. We have no one to blame anytime we fail a test, allbeit our tests are man-made or come from God. No one can make you happy or sad, it is your choice to be happy or sad. God is responsible for giving us all free choice. God is responsible for offering us eternal life and eternal death. God is not responsible for what we choose. God is responsible for sorting out the mess as a result of man's choices. God is responsible to keep His promises which include bringing about His purpose, which is to ultimately fill the whole earth (in time to come) with His Glory. The world has to be made perfect once more; as it was before Adam and Eve sinned.

God has taken responsibility to correct matters and has provided a way of salvation for us. God is letting us choose to accept or reject His salvation. We have only ourselves to blame for the choices we make. What is morally wrong with God, when man is to blame for making a mess of his life by the choices man has made and God will overcome all the problems man has created?

As God said to His people: (Deut 30:19) I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life,

It is now your choice; what are you going to choose?

David

[CWH]

The author of the test is morally responsible if he designed his test knowing that the ignorant humans would misunderstand it and that it would lead to immoral actions.

I used deductive thinking often in my bible studies and many a time it gives me insights. Now who is to be blamed? Is it God or the misguided ones taking the test? Using deductive thinking, there can only be 4 possibilities if a student failed the test, who is to be blamed:

1. the student who sat for the exam
2. the invigilator who set the exam questions
3, Both student and invigilator were to be blamed
4. Neither the student or the invigilator were to be blamed

In the bible, we almost always see that it is the student to be blamed for not understanding the scriptures or for misinterpreting the scriptures. 2 good examples are:

Matthew 22:
23 That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 24 'Teacher,' they said, 'Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and raise up offspring for him. 25 Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26 The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27 Finally, the woman died. 28 Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?'
29 Jesus replied, 'You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.'


Matthew 5:
Murder
21 'You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

25 'Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26 Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

Adultery

27 'You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Divorce

31 'It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’[f] 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Oaths

33 'Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’ 34 But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37 All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.[g]
Eye for Eye

38 [B]'You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Love for Enemies

43 'You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.



God Bless us with His understandings. :pray:

[Rose]

Hello Ricard and Cheow

I agree with Richard's later answer that God is responsible for setting the test. Adam and Eve were responsible for failing the test. God was responsible for punishing Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve received punishment for disobedience. We have no one to blame anytime we fail a test, allbeit our tests are man-made or come from God. No one can make you happy or sad, it is your choice to be happy or sad. God is responsible for giving us all free choice. God is responsible for offering us eternal life and eternal death. God is not responsible for what we choose. God is responsible for sorting out the mess as a result of man's choices. God is responsible to keep His promises which include bringing about His purpose, which is to ultimately fill the whole earth (in time to come) with His Glory. The world has to be made perfect once more; as it was before Adam and Eve sinned.

God has taken responsibility to correct matters and has provided a way of salvation for us. God is letting us choose to accept or reject His salvation. We have only ourselves to blame for the choices we make. What is morally wrong with God, when man is to blame for making a mess of his life by the choices man has made and God will overcome all the problems man has created?

As God said to His people: (Deut 30:19) I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life,

It is now your choice; what are you going to choose?

David

Hi David,

What is morally wrong with Yahweh is that the very morals he lays out for man to follow in the Bible, are the very morals he breaks! What's up with that?

Rose

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I used deductive thinking often in my bible studies and many a time it gives me insights. Now who is to be blamed? Is it God or the misguided ones taking the test? Using deductive thinking, there can only be 4 possibilities if a student failed the test, who is to be blamed:

1. the student who sat for the exam
2. the invigilator who set the exam questions
3, Both student and invigilator were to be blamed
4. Neither the student or the invigilator were to be blamed

The student is at fault for failing the test (if the test was fair), but the author of the test is responsible if the test itself leads the students into moral error.

And that's the problem with the Bible. Folks who erroneously think it is the "inerrant and infallible Word of God" are led into gross moral error. Their morals become corrupted and they say that evil is good, as in the case of the genocide in the Bible (which you have tried to justify numerous times).

Also, the test is not even fair because the Bible (if it was designed by God) is designed to appear as if it had many errors. This causes endless confusion, especially amongst those who are seeking with all their hearts to believe the Bible because they find many things in it that are simply unbelievable and worse, grossly immoral. So either the test was designed to confuse the student or to expose the doctrine of Biblical infallibility as erroneous. But in any case, the consequences of failure are themselves evil, and that evil is the responsibility of the author of the test.

[David M]

Hi David,

What is morally wrong with Yahweh is that the very morals he lays out for man to follow in the Bible, are the very morals he breaks! What's up with that?

Rose

Rose, according to your law, you would accuse the judge who awards the death sentence to fit the crime committed, guilty of murderer, is unjust and is immoral. On the other hand, the one condemned to death was not really a bad person and did not deserve to die.

Just a thought.

David

[Rose]

Hi David,

What is morally wrong with Yahweh is that the very morals he lays out for man to follow in the Bible, are the very morals he breaks! What's up with that?

RoseRose, according to your law, you would accuse the judge who awards the death sentence to fit the crime committed, guilty of murderer, is unjust and is immoral. On the other hand, the one condemned to death was not really a bad person and did not deserve to die.

Just a thought.

David

Good morning David, :yo:

I would only accuse the judge of murder if he himself ordered the murder of innocent people! As I pointed out in my Thread the Promised Land, (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?2909-The-Promised-Land)Yahweh violated three of the Ten Commandments by commanding the killing of people to take their land, and steal their goods!

Rose

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Rose, according to your law, you would accuse the judge who awards the death sentence to fit the crime committed, guilty of murderer, is unjust and is immoral. On the other hand, the one condemned to death was not really a bad person and did not deserve to die.

Just a thought.

David
Hey there David,

I think we would have a better chance of coming to a mutual understanding if you were more careful with the accuracy of your comments. Rose has never complained about any just judge giving just judgments against guilty criminals. I know you know this, so why did say that Rose "would accuse the judge who awards the death sentence to fit the crime committed"? It doesn't make any sense at all. Rose (and I) have been talking about unjust actions attributed to God in the Bible such as the murder of little babies or the taking of virgins as war booty to be distributed to the soldiers. At the very least you should start by admitting that these things have the appearance of immorality and that there are good reasons folks have trouble with the actions attributed to God in the Bible. You then can argue why they are wrong.

All the best,

Richard

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

The author of the test is morally responsible if he designed his test knowing that the ignorant humans would misunderstand it and that it would lead to immoral actions.
Agreed, and he took the responsibility on himself; cast out the conditional acceptence of the first Garden scenario; [law of 'sin' and death] cast out the law of Moses; [administration of death] cast out the tempter and replaced them with simple faith and knowledge of in the supernatural reality of Himself, his transcendance and His way of Peace. John 17:3.

Before, God 'winked at' man's ignorance, but now has given them visible, tangible representation to contrast that ignorance.