Wrestling the Word

[duxrow]

:sBo_reflection2: "We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but...against spiritual wickedness in high places", Eph6:12. Against idol worship, filthy language, nasty behavior, and ignorance of the truth of God's Word.

Jacob wrestled the man (the angel, or epiphany) on the banks of the river and then received his new-name of Israel. Rachel wrestled her sister, Gen30:8, and afterwards became fruitful. When we wrestle with the Word of
God, and prevail to understanding, we become disciples too.

Nathanael believed on the basis of very little evidence, but some of us, like Thomas, are not so easily persuaded and have to see for ourselves.

Esau was the 'firstborn' and personifies the Old Man of the flesh, while Jacob personifies the New 'born-again' hidden man of the heart. :thumb:

[Bob May]

:sBo_reflection2: "We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but...against spiritual wickedness in high places", Eph6:12. Against idol worship, filthy language, nasty behavior, and ignorance of the truth of God's Word.

Jacob wrestled the man (the angel, or epiphany) on the banks of the river and then received his new-name of Israel. Rachel wrestled her sister, Gen30:8, and afterwards became fruitful. When we wrestle with the Word of
God, and prevail to understanding, we become disciples too.

Nathanael believed on the basis of very little evidence, but some of us, like Thomas, are not so easily persuaded and have to see for ourselves.

Esau was the 'firstborn' and personifies the Old Man of the flesh, while Jacob personifies the New 'born-again' hidden man of the heart. :thumb:

Hi Dux,

And yet Jacob is referred to as an "Old Man."

Ge 43:27 And he asked them of their welfare, and said, Is your father well, the old man of whom ye spake? Is he yet alive?
Ge 44:20 And we said unto my lord, We have a father, an old man, and a child of his old age, a little one; and his brother is dead, and he alone is left of his mother, and his father loveth him.

I believe Jacob is the ego of a person who is seeking after God. This person because he is seeking after God (Seek and ye shall find) does have breakthroughs in understanding. These breakthroughs are gifts from God it is Israel. The significance of the name change.

Ge 45:27 And they told him all the words of Joseph, which he had said unto them: and when he saw the wagons which Joseph had sent to carry him, the spirit of Jacob their father revived:
Ge 45:28 And Israel said, It is enough; Joseph my son is yet alive: I will go and see him before I die.

Esau is the carnal/natural man, more concerned with filling his belly than anything. Jacob is seeking God but still is looking at things from a mental level. Israel is a further awakening.

Bob

[Charisma]

Hi Bob and dux,


Esau is the carnal/natural man, more concerned with filling his belly than anything. Jacob is seeking God but still is looking at things from a mental level. Israel is a further awakening.Tyndale's New Testament has a useful turn of phrase in Romans 8:to be carnally minded is death. But to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because that the fleshly mind is enmity against God: for it is not obedient to the law of God, neither can be. So then, they that are given to the flesh, cannot please God.

But ye are not given to the flesh but [ye are given (added by me)] to the spirit: if so be that the spirit of God dwell in you.

I have added the italics for emphasis.

Esau was carnally-minded and gave himself whole-heartedly to being carnally-minded, but Jacob, although 'in the flesh' - bearing in mind the New Covenant was to be a long way after his time - was spiritually-minded. He wanted that birthright; he wanted that blessing; and God recognised and fulfilled the desires of his heart because they were going in the 'right' direction - toward God.

Once Jacob had been corrected many times and many ways, and had become obedient to God's direction in his life (in this case, to go home despite Esau's previous threats), he could receive the new name,(Israel), because God had prevailed in his life.

Hebrews 11:21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, [leaning] upon the top of his staff.

[duxrow]

Sounds like we're all in agreement, Bob and Charisma.

I think of those happenings as examples or PRECEPTS: prophetic examples of the NT to come...
Isa:28:9: Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa:28:10: For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa:28:11: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa:28:12: To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.