Heart vs. Mind in the Bible

[Charisma]

These are two different accounts of the same event. Please notice that Jesus connected reason with heart.


Mark 2:8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?

Luke 5:22 But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts?


I suggest that if there is a difference between 'heart' and 'mind', it is to do with what has been internalised by a person - whether true or not.

For instance, the Pharisees had internalised that only God could forgive sins. But their minds could not take in that a man (Jesus) could be that God - hence, dissonance.


I'm not sure how this observation translates into this discussion, except to say that one's mind is not always receptive to truth, if it contradicts a heart-held stance.

At the same time, truth is always true, whether it is received by mind, or heart, first, and thankfully, God has patience with those of us who are a bit slow on the uptake. ;)



:sCo_hmmthink:

[Richard Amiel McGough]

These are two different accounts of the same event. Please notice that Jesus connected reason with heart.


Mark 2:8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?

Luke 5:22 But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts?


I suggest that if there is a difference between 'heart' and 'mind', it is to do with what has been internalised by a person - whether true or not.

For instance, the Pharisees had internalised that only God could forgive sins. But their minds could not take in that a man (Jesus) could be that God - hence, dissonance.


I'm not sure how this observation translates into this discussion, except to say that one's mind is not always receptive to truth, if it contradicts a heart-held stance.

At the same time, truth is always true, whether it is received by mind, or heart, first, and thankfully, God has patience with those of us who are a bit slow on the uptake. ;)



:sCo_hmmthink:
In the OT, there was very little, if any, difference between "heart" and "mind." The same words are translated as either.

Strong's 03820
לב leb {labe} a form of 03824; TWOT - 1071a; n
m AV - heart 508, mind 12, midst 11, understanding 10, hearted 7, wisdom 6,
comfortably 4, well 4, considered 2, friendly 2, kindly 2, stouthearted + 047 2,
care + 07760 2, misc 20; ; 592 1) inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding
1a) inner part, midst 1a1) midst (of things) 1a2) heart (of man) 1a3) soul,
heart (of man) 1a4) mind, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory 1a5)
inclination, resolution, determination (of will) 1a6) conscience 1a7) heart (of
moral character) 1a8) as seat of appetites 1a9) as seat of emotions and passions
1a10) as seat of courage

The Greek NT seems a little closer to our modern understanding of "heart" vs. "mind" but I'm not sure about that.

This is the biggest challenge when studying a 2000 year old document - we must be very careful not to import and impose our modern concepts upon the ancient text.

It seems to me that I am a unified being with a "heart/mind" - it is not supposed to be divided into two separate faculties. When the Bible talks about divisions within ourselves, it talks a lot about flesh vs. spirit. That makes more "Biblical sense" to me than "heart vs. mind." Though I don't know ... maybe I'm missing something. If so, I trust folks will bring it to my attention.

[Charisma]

Hello Richard!

Thanks for your research on heart vs mind. I do believe they want to be united, as the Hebrew indicates, but the mind has become separated from heart by way of trying to deal with the heart's detachment from God (through sin).

And, I think if one is honest about what one's 'mind' is 'thinking', it is an indicator of what is really going on in one's heart. But, we can change our minds about something, without a change of heart; and this heart-state will show itself in some other feeling or behaviour - such as resentment, or disappointment, or longing - which the mind cannot change. A change of heart would make the difference.

I wonder if there is symbolism in the use of 'in the midst of', in the OT, which could transfer easily into the NT, using 'heart'?

For instance, 'in the midst of' the garden (of Eden) is interesting because a garden is one. (Strong's lists 'midst' (Try saying that out loud! lol) as, in 'midst of things', and 'heart' as in 'heart of man'.)

Thank you for pointing this out. I will keep my eyes open when studying, to see how it informs our understanding of 'mind'. Obviously, a garden doesn't have a mind, (for instance)!

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hello Richard!

Thanks for your research on heart vs mind. I do believe they want to be united, as the Hebrew indicates, but the mind has become separated from heart by way of trying to deal with the heart's detachment from God (through sin).

And, I think if one is honest about what one's 'mind' is 'thinking', it is an indicator of what is really going on in one's heart. But, we can change our minds about something, without a change of heart; and this heart-state will show itself in some other feeling or behaviour - such as resentment, or disappointment, or longing - which the mind cannot change. A change of heart would make the difference.

I wonder if there is symbolism in the use of 'in the midst of', in the OT, which could transfer easily into the NT, using 'heart'?

For instance, 'in the midst of' the garden (of Eden) is interesting because a garden is one. (Strong's lists 'midst' (Try saying that out loud! lol) as, in 'midst of things', and 'heart' as in 'heart of man'.)

Thank you for pointing this out. I will keep my eyes open when studying, to see how it informs our understanding of 'mind'. Obviously, a garden doesn't have a mind, (for instance)!
Hey there my friend, :yo:

The words "heart" and "mind" are metaphors for aspects of a single individual - I think in a healthy individual they are completely unified. What the mind "thinks" would be in complete harmony with what the heart "feels" or "intuits."

Your description of the heart vs. the mind makes me think of the right and left brain hemispheres. The right hemisphere is mostly visual, non-verbal, holistic whereas the left is linear, linguistic, logical. When the left dominates (think Spock) it can be completely out of touch with things that should be obvious to anyone (feelings and intuitions). The left majors on details and misses the big picture that gives the context required to give meaning to those details.

Now when it comes to the idea of our "alienation from God" I think that is really talking about our own internal sense of alienation from our own authentic self which is known only through the right hemisphere. The left only represents (re-presents) reality in words, whereas the right is the "direct link" to reality itself. Thus, if the left brain because too dominant, we lose our sense of integrity and wholeness. And what is the first thing that destroys our integrity? The word "sin" would very accurate, so long as we remember we are talking about sinning against our own moral sense (as opposed to an arbitrary law made up by a religion).

Thus, the "in the midst" links directly to my sense of "heart" (right hemisphere) since it is the heart that makes direct contact with reality. The mind "stands aloof" and makes judgments and calculations. It is not "in the midst."

And that's why the left (mind) can't change how we feel. How we feel comes from the right (heart) which is directly connected to reality.

Great chatting!

Richard

PS: Strong's lists midst is a tongue twister!

[Unregistered]

Philippians 4:7 English Standard Version (ESV)
7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

There is clearly a distinction between mind and heart in this verse

im just curious also.

[Greatest I am]

These are two different accounts of the same event. Please notice that Jesus connected reason with heart.


Mark 2:8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?

Luke 5:22 But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts?


I suggest that if there is a difference between 'heart' and 'mind', it is to do with what has been internalised by a person - whether true or not.

For instance, the Pharisees had internalised that only God could forgive sins. But their minds could not take in that a man (Jesus) could be that God - hence, dissonance.


I'm not sure how this observation translates into this discussion, except to say that one's mind is not always receptive to truth, if it contradicts a heart-held stance.

At the same time, truth is always true, whether it is received by mind, or heart, first, and thankfully, God has patience with those of us who are a bit slow on the uptake. ;)



:sCo_hmmthink:

Hearts do not have ears to hear or eyes to see the way mind does.

There are prayers or incantations to our minds in Gnostic Christianity and the bible tells us to use our minds to decide things. Not our hearts. Our hearts can aid but are secondary to mind as mind created our consciousness which is where we store our imaginary notions of gods.

-----------

Gnostic Jesus was questioned as to what sees the vision?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/maps/primary/mary.html

The Saviour answered and said, 'He does not see through the soul nor through the spirit, but the mind which [is] between the two - that is [what] sees the vision...'

For where the mind is, there is the treasure.

===================

Christianity does not quite agree, wording wise, with us.

Matthew 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Charisma

Our hearts just confirm that the vision or enlightenment is a treasure.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Philippians 4:7 English Standard Version (ESV)
7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

There is clearly a distinction between mind and heart in this verse

im just curious also.

What is the distinction?

Regards
DL

[lovelytony22]

Sometimes the Bible uses the heart and the brain interchangeably. There is something in common with these two.

Take a look at these two versions:

1. "The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it? I, the LORD, search the mind, I try the heart, even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings" (NHEB Jeremiah 17:9-10).

2. "The human mind is more deceitful than anything else. It is incurably bad. Who can understand it? I the LORD, probe into prople?s minds. I examine people?s hearts. I deal with each person according to how he has behaved. I give them what they deserve based on what they have done" (NET Jeremiah 17:9 - 10).

If God resides in your heart; then you will hear him whisper through your convenience. On the other hand, if Satan dwells in your heart you will hear him whisper through your conscience.

According to David Paterson, Ph.D. a professor at Oxford University, the relationship between the brain and the heart, has some commonalities. They have the same kind of neurons and both of them can initiate emotions.

[Greatest I am]

Sometimes the Bible uses the heart and the brain interchangeably. There is something in common with these two.

Take a look at these two versions:

1. "The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it? I, the LORD, search the mind, I try the heart, even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings" (NHEB Jeremiah 17:9-10).

2. "The human mind is more deceitful than anything else. It is incurably bad. Who can understand it? I the LORD, probe into prople?s minds. I examine people?s hearts. I deal with each person according to how he has behaved. I give them what they deserve based on what they have done" (NET Jeremiah 17:9 - 10).

If God resides in your heart; then you will hear him whisper through your convenience. On the other hand, if Satan dwells in your heart you will hear him whisper through your conscience.

According to David Paterson, Ph.D. a professor at Oxford University, the relationship between the brain and the heart, has some commonalities. They have the same kind of neurons and both of them can initiate emotions.

That being the case, since we can know medically that brains think, we should be able to use the same technology to discover that the heart thinks.

We have not and science has accepted that the heart is a muscle, not a thinking part of anything. Muscles are not brains.

Then again, if you are a science denier, non of that will mater to you.

You say your heart is where emotions come from.

What emotion do you feel when thinking of which entity is more murderous and genocidal and is whispering to you. Satan or Yahweh?

If Yahweh, should you really follow the dictates of a genocidal god?

Regards
DL