BIBLE BENCHMARKS?

[duxrow]

1. Melchizedek is introduced with cameo shot of bread/wine in Book of Genesis.

2. 1,000 yrs. later, David mentions his name in Ps110:4.

3. Then ANOTHER 1,000 yrs. till we learn in Book of Hebrews how he's a pic or type of Jesus!h

Kings couldn't be Priests in OT (Saul/Uzzia)

Genesis / Psalms / Hebrews -- Do they fit some kind of pattern? :idea:

[Richard Amiel McGough]

1. Melchizedek is introduced with cameo shot of bread/wine in Book of Genesis.

2. 1,000 yrs. later, David mentions his name in Ps110:4.

3. Then ANOTHER 1,000 yrs. till we learn in Book of Hebrews how he's a pic or type of Jesus!h

Kings couldn't be Priests in OT (Saul/Uzzia)

Genesis / Psalms / Hebrews -- Do they fit some kind of pattern? :idea:
The large round number "1000" is intriguing in that pattern.

There is a strong link between the sequence of chapters in Genesis with the books on the Bible Wheel since Melchizedek and the word "Hebrew" are introduced in Genesis 14 and the Book of Hebrews which explains Melchizedek is found on Spoke 14. See here (http://www.biblewheel.com/InnerWheels/Genesis/Genesis14.asp).

The passage in Psalm 110 is also very significant, but I don't see any obvious pattern in the sequence of Genesis, Psalms, Hebrews. Do you?

[duxrow]

Do I? Sorry, not with spoke parameters -- but the ~2000 yrs. of Genesis (pre-Law), followed by the 2000 yrs. of the OT for the Jew under the LAW, and then the NT for the Gentile by grace or faith is intriguing to me. When a thousand years are as a Day, then Genesis is Mon & Tue, the OT is Wed/Thur., and NT would be Fri/Sat. Day of Rest just ahead!
Jesus rose on 3rd Day, and when you begin the count with him, we're already in the 3rd Day. I find that exciting!

Agree about the round 1,000 (like Solomon harem), but the two pillars holding the 20x20x20 Temple (Boaz/Jachin) could be stand-ins for Moses and Jesus separating the three periods.in

Was hoping for something more in line with this..

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Do I? Sorry, not with spoke parameters -- but the ~2000 yrs. of Genesis (pre-Law), followed by the 2000 yrs. of the OT for the Jew under the LAW, and then the NT for the Gentile by grace or faith is intriguing to me. When a thousand years are as a Day, then Genesis is Mon & Tue, the OT is Wed/Thur., and NT would be Fri/Sat. Day of Rest just ahead!
Jesus rose on 3rd Day, and when you begin the count with him, we're already in the 3rd Day. I find that exciting!

Agree about the round 1,000 (like Solomon harem), but the two pillars holding the 20x20x20 Temple (Boaz/Jachin) could be stand-ins for Moses and Jesus separating the three periods.in

Was hoping for something more in line with this..
Well, folks have been saying that the "seventh millennium" was "just ahead" for quite a while now. I wouldn't hold my breath!

But I agree - the patterns are intriguing and they are quite symmetric before and after the cross and tie in well with the 22 Hebrew letters as discussed in my article Aleph Tav: The Key to the Kingdoms (http://www.biblewheel.com/History/KingdomKey.asp). And if this diagram is accurate, then it does indeed look like something is going to happen within the next century or so when we enter the Aleph/Tav overlap ... but I've never been one to make any predictions, believe me! because it's foolish and misleading to make predictions without knowledge. And if history is any indication, it's pretty embarrassing since everyone has always been wrong.

http://www.biblewheel.com/History/KingdomKey.gif

[debz]

Do I? Sorry, not with spoke parameters -- but the ~2000 yrs. of Genesis (pre-Law), followed by the 2000 yrs. of the OT for the Jew under the LAW, and then the NT for the Gentile by grace or faith is intriguing to me. When a thousand years are as a Day, then Genesis is Mon & Tue, the OT is Wed/Thur., and NT would be Fri/Sat. Day of Rest just ahead!
Jesus rose on 3rd Day, and when you begin the count with him, we're already in the 3rd Day. I find that exciting!

Agree about the round 1,000 (like Solomon harem), but the two pillars holding the 20x20x20 Temple (Boaz/Jachin) could be stand-ins for Moses and Jesus separating the three periods.in

Was hoping for something more in line with this..

Absolutely! There is much more typology revealing we are now transitioning into the "Third Day" (of the church) aka "Seventh Day of Rest" overall. Jesus, as the High Priest in the order of Melchizedek, is the one taking His Body (corporate Sons) into the Most Holy Place, as only the High Priest can do. The dimensions of the Tabernacle also speak of this: 20x10x10 cubits for the Holy Place (2000 years in time of Pentecost church age) and 10x10x10 cubits = Most Holy Place (1000 years Tabernacles age). Three Feasts were required for Israel: Passover, Pentecost, Tabernacles....Passover fulfilled by Jesus/cross as passover lamb sacrificed; Pentecost fulfilled by 120/upper room ... but Tabernacles is the only one that hasn't been fulfilled. The typology seen in Tabernacles, and even spoken of by Jesus, indicates it would be fulfilled by His corporate body.

Jesus said "on the third day I will be perfected" (Luke 13:32)....also a prophetic reference to His corporate body being "perfected" on our "third day."

[debz]

Well, folks have been saying that the "seventh millennium" was "just ahead" for quite a while now. I wouldn't hold my breath!

But I agree - the patterns are intriguing and they are quite symmetric before and after the cross and tie in well with the 22 Hebrew letters as discussed in my article Aleph Tav: The Key to the Kingdoms (http://www.biblewheel.com/History/KingdomKey.asp). And if this diagram is accurate, then it does indeed look like something is going to happen within the next century or so when we enter the Aleph/Tav overlap ... but I've never been one to make any predictions, believe me! because it's foolish and misleading to make predictions without knowledge. And if history is any indication, it's pretty embarrassing since everyone has always been wrong.

http://www.biblewheel.com/History/KingdomKey.gif

It is precisely because people have made wrong predictions on how this would all "play out" that many have abandoned seeking out the true fulfillment.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

It is precisely because people have made wrong predictions on how this would all "play out" that many have abandoned seeking out the true fulfillment.
What do you see as the "true fulfillment?" Most modern prophecy people predict doom and gloom (Antichrist, Armagedon, etc.). Do you see something different? I hope so ... that would be nice!

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Absolutely! There is much more typology revealing we are now transitioning into the "Third Day" (of the church) aka "Seventh Day of Rest" overall. Jesus, as the High Priest in the order of Melchizedek, is the one taking His Body (corporate Sons) into the Most Holy Place, as only the High Priest can do. The dimensions of the Tabernacle also speak of this: 20x10x10 cubits for the Holy Place (2000 years in time of Pentecost church age) and 10x10x10 cubits = Most Holy Place (1000 years Tabernacles age). Three Feasts were required for Israel: Passover, Pentecost, Tabernacles....Passover fulfilled by Jesus/cross as passover lamb sacrificed; Pentecost fulfilled by 120/upper room ... but Tabernacles is the only one that hasn't been fulfilled. The typology seen in Tabernacles, and even spoken of by Jesus, indicates it would be fulfilled by His corporate body.

Jesus said "on the third day I will be perfected" (Luke 13:32)....also a prophetic reference to His corporate body being "perfected" on our "third day."
If the dimensions of the Tabernacle and its Most Holy Place prefigure the Tabernacles Age and the Pentecost Church Age, then what do the dimensions of the Most Holy Place in the Temple prefigure? It was 20 x 20 x 20 = 8,000 cubic cubits:

1 Kings 6:20 And the oracle in the forepart was twenty cubits in length, and twenty cubits in breadth, and twenty cubits in the height thereof: and he overlaid it with pure gold; and so covered the altar which was of cedar.

And how do we know which numbers are supposed to be interpreted as "prefiguring a time span" and which are not? It seems like you are picking out the numbers that happen to fit a pattern you like, but what if someone else liked a different pattern? Is there any way to tell who is right an who is wrong?

[debz]

If the dimensions of the Tabernacle and its Most Holy Place prefigure the Tabernacles Age and the Pentecost Church Age, then what do the dimensions of the Most Holy Place in the Temple prefigure? It was 20 x 20 x 20 = 8,000 cubic cubits:

1 Kings 6:20 And the oracle in the forepart was twenty cubits in length, and twenty cubits in breadth, and twenty cubits in the height thereof: and he overlaid it with pure gold; and so covered the altar which was of cedar.

And how do we know which numbers are supposed to be interpreted as "prefiguring a time span" and which are not? It seems like you are picking out the numbers that happen to fit a pattern you like, but what if someone else liked a different pattern? Is there any way to tell who is right an who is wrong?

Jesus stood in the Temple when He proclaimed the prophecies related to the time of Tabernacles. I believe the dimensions of the Most Holy Place of the Temple also coincide with this...8000 = 8 x 1000, the number of resurrection, renewal, etc. x maturity. The "Mature Sons" age.

[debz]

What do you see as the "true fulfillment?" Most modern prophecy people predict doom and gloom (Antichrist, Armagedon, etc.). Do you see something different? I hope so ... that would be nice!

Yes, I absolutely see something different. I wrote a whole book on it :winking0071: All of these things I reference here are within that, and until seen as the whole, won't be fully understood. Again, :winking0071:

There is a time of "great trouble" -- but it is what helps to birth the glorious.

Isa 60:1-3
"Arise, shine, for your light has come,
and the glory of the Lord rises upon you.
2 See, darkness covers the earth
and thick darkness is over the peoples,
but the Lord rises upon you
and his glory appears over you.
3 Nations will come to your light,
and kings to the brightness of your dawn.
NIV

This is prophesying the time of "Tabernacles" ... it has not yet been fulfilled. Many other prophecies on Tabernacles have yet to be fulfilled.

[debz]

...also related to that. I found it interesting that Rose posted Cat Stevens' "Morning Has Broken" song today on the forum. I see that as very prophetic. Speaks about that "dawning" that Is 60 is speaking about...

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Yes, I absolutely see something different. I wrote a whole book on it :winking0071: All of these things I reference here are within that, and until seen as the whole, won't be fully understood. Again, :winking0071:

There is a time of "great trouble" -- but it is what helps to birth the glorious.

Isa 60:1-3
"Arise, shine, for your light has come,
and the glory of the Lord rises upon you.
2 See, darkness covers the earth
and thick darkness is over the peoples,
but the Lord rises upon you
and his glory appears over you.
3 Nations will come to your light,
and kings to the brightness of your dawn.
NIV

This is prophesying the time of "Tabernacles" ... it has not yet been fulfilled. Many other prophecies on Tabernacles have yet to be fulfilled.

OK- OK! I get it! :winking0071:

I know I gotta read the book. I even put it on my To-Do list! Along with a bunch of other stuff that ended up taking five times as long as I expected (because software can be soooo buggy!).

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Jesus stood in the Temple when He proclaimed the prophecies related to the time of Tabernacles. I believe the dimensions of the Most Holy Place of the Temple also coincide with this...8000 = 8 x 1000, the number of resurrection, renewal, etc. x maturity. The "Mature Sons" age.
So some numbers are taken as prophetic of years, but others similar numbers are not? How do we know which is which?

And when Jesus predicted the destruction of the temple, it did happen in 70 AD as predicted. So how are we able to get a second set of predictions from that text?

[debz]

So some numbers are taken as prophetic of years, but others similar numbers are not? How do we know which is which?

And when Jesus predicted the destruction of the temple, it did happen in 70 AD as predicted. So how are we able to get a second set of predictions from that text?

I actually believe they all tie in very harmoniously when the "big picture" is understood.

The Mt 24 text we are still examining in other threads...it was fulfilled, but the whole prophecy wasn't fulfilled. (not avoiding the subject, just know that we are addressing it on other threads, and I have to get my kids to bed right now!!)

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I actually believe they all tie in very harmoniously when the "big picture" is understood.

The Mt 24 text we are still examining in other threads...it was fulfilled, but the whole prophecy wasn't fulfilled. (not avoiding the subject, just know that we are addressing it on other threads, and I have to get my kids to bed right now!!)
Yeah, we've got that other thread to work through that.

But as for "harmony" - that's not a test for truth. Harmonious patterns can be false. That's why people have been making false predictions for 2000 years. Folks are very adept at creating "harmonious patterns" and then mistaking the "harmony" as proof of truth. That was Harold Camping's downfall (not that I am comparing you with him!) - he explicitly stated that we could know his interpretations were true because they were the only interpretations that "harmonized" all the verses of the Bible. Oops! Of course, his error was very obvious to anyone familiar with Scripture. He wasn't really "harmonizing" any verses, he was twisting words to the point of utter absurdity and then declaring them "harmonious." But still ... it does show that "harmony" is not a test for truth. Gross disharmony, on the other hand, is a pretty good test for falsehood! :p

[kathryn]

Yes...I agree with Deb completely. Someone , at some point, has to be willing to start the study of typology from the ground up. I've been trying to get this going for a few weeks now(actually, a few years)...but no one except Deb and Bob seem to be interested in it...which is FINE! I love the freedom on the forum to pick and choose what we are interested in discussing.

Better though, to avoid the topic all together, than throw out little questions here and there and keep it all on a superficial level. It's a study that has to begin from the roots of the typology "tree" and work its way from there. The book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ cannot be understood without understanding its foundation in the Law of Moses, which Jesus fulfilled. If you don't understand the foundation and understand where the plumb line has been placed in the "small beginning" , you certainly aren't going to understand the Revelation of the final chapter of redemption, built upon it.

[kathryn]

Yeah, we've got that other thread to work through that.

But as for "harmony" - that's not a test for truth. Harmonious patterns can be false. That's why people have been making false predictions for 2000 years. Folks are very adept at creating "harmonious patterns" and then mistaking the "harmony" as proof of truth. That was Harold Camping's downfall (not that I am comparing you with him!) - he explicitly stated that we could know his interpretations were true because they were the only interpretations that "harmonized" all the verses of the Bible. Oops! Of course, his error was very obvious to anyone familiar with Scripture. He wasn't really "harmonizing" any verses, he was twisting words to the point of utter absurdity and then declaring them "harmonious." But still ... it does show that "harmony" is not a test for truth. Gross disharmony, on the other hand, is a pretty good test for falsehood! :p

Certainly...things can harmonize for awhile or seem to....but we're taking about something quite different here Richard. We're speaking of something that you could compare to a mathematical formula completely removed from personal bias, that can be approached and confirmed forwards, backwards, from beginning to end, end to beginning. That's a bold statement to make I know....but there it is. And quite frankly...until you can start to really investigate it, precept on precept...there's no point in going back and forth on this...unless of course you just want to chat for the sake of chatting. :p:p:p:D:p:p:p

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Certainly...things can harmonize for awhile or seem to....but we're taking about something quite different here Richard. We're speaking of something that you could compare to a mathematical formula completely removed from personal bias, that can be approached and confirmed forwards, backwards, from beginning to end, end to beginning. That's a bold statement to make I know....but there it is. And quite frankly...until you can start to really investigate it, precept on precept...there's no point in going back and forth on this...unless of course you just want to chat for the sake of chatting. :p:p:p:D:p:p:p
So if I want to dig into this, would you suggest I go back to the Matthew 17 (fish and coin) thread and start at the begining there?

[debz]

Yeah, we've got that other thread to work through that.

But as for "harmony" - that's not a test for truth. Harmonious patterns can be false. That's why people have been making false predictions for 2000 years. Folks are very adept at creating "harmonious patterns" and then mistaking the "harmony" as proof of truth. That was Harold Camping's downfall (not that I am comparing you with him!) - he explicitly stated that we could know his interpretations were true because they were the only interpretations that "harmonized" all the verses of the Bible. Oops! Of course, his error was very obvious to anyone familiar with Scripture. He wasn't really "harmonizing" any verses, he was twisting words to the point of utter absurdity and then declaring them "harmonious." But still ... it does show that "harmony" is not a test for truth. Gross disharmony, on the other hand, is a pretty good test for falsehood! :p

I am no fan or follower of Harold Camping, however, I believe he is a perfect example of how all heresies/cults begin. Someone gets a "piece" of the truth revealed, but then they try to follow that to its logical conclusion. I really believe he had some of the timing right--but he didn't understand the fulfillment at all -- he concluded, like 99% off Christendom concludes, a certain outcome in Jesus' "second coming." When Jesus came the first time, even those who had studied the prophecies inside-out, upside-down for centuries "missed it"!! But there were a very few who did "get it" (like Anna...oh, wow, interesting that it was a woman!) It is the same now...it is not how the majority are "interpreting" it to play out.

Harold Camping "knew in part" .... and then he tried to reach a logical conclusion to that "part." He was wrong. We all "know in part" in this Pentecostal stage/age ... but when the "perfect" comes, we will know fully.... all in my book...:winking0071:

[kathryn]

Bob...love the insights in your posts. I've been working on something the past few days that is quite engrossing(which your post this morning confirmed in a most timely manner:thumb:)

[debz]

Yes...I agree with Deb completely. Someone , at some point, has to be willing to start the study of typology from the ground up. I've been trying to get this going for a few weeks now(actually, a few years)...but no one except Deb and Bob seem to be interested in it...which is FINE! I love the freedom on the forum to pick and choose what we are interested in discussing.

Better though, to avoid the topic all together, than throw out little questions here and there and keep it all on a superficial level. It's a study that has to begin from the roots of the typology "tree" and work its way from there. The book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ cannot be understood without understanding its foundation in the Law of Moses, which Jesus fulfilled. If you don't understand the foundation and understand where the plumb line has been placed in the "small beginning" , you certainly aren't going to understand the Revelation of the final chapter of redemption, built upon it.

Thanks, Kathryn :) I personally like sticking with the tabernacle typology...although there is SOOOO much typology that speaks all this same message, like what you've been presenting. Bob is also seeing the same things, in a different way, when he discusses the baptisms of water/air/fire, etc. (outer court/holy place/most holy place).

[kathryn]

So if I want to dig into this, would you suggest I go back to the Matthew 17 (fish and coin) thread and start at the begining there?

I know you're busy....so the fact that you're asking me this, I'm chalking up to having so many posts to consider. We did have this back and forth about what I suggested before...a few times. :p
I said not to bother going back and reading them all....and if you responded to my last post (believe it was 177) that would be cool. You did, and I replied....and that was the end of that:D I believe you also said you would try to check in once a day, to continue with another response. Honestly dear Bro o mine....I have no desire to drag you into anything here. Silence is GOOD! I treasure the freedom on the forum here to discuss what we want, when we want. I just want to retain my freedom to say it how I see it. If someone is repeatedly questioning something, and not bothering to take the opportunity to investigate it when someone is offering an explanation...they ought to just stick to what they have really researched and want to talk about and leave it for someone else.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I know you're busy....so the fact that you're asking me this, I'm chalking up to having so many posts to consider. We did have this back and forth about what I suggested before...a few times. :p
I said not to bother going back and reading them all....and if you responded to my last post (believe it was 177) that would be cool. You did, and I replied....and that was the end of that:D I believe you also said you would try to check in once a day, to continue with another response. Honestly dear Bro o mine....I have no desire to drag you into anything here. Silence is GOOD! I treasure the freedom on the forum here to discuss what we want, when we want. I just want to retain my freedom to say it how I see it. If someone is repeatedly questioning something, and not bothering to take the opportunity to investigate it when someone is offering an explanation...they ought to just stick to what they have really researched and want to talk about and leave it for someone else.
Ooops! That was a silly question of mine. I guess I'm getting a little rummy from too much work. I've been devoting myself fulltime to coding for the forum and website. Wrestling with this vBulletin code is extremely detail intensive and there are all sorts of little microscoptic things that go BOOM and then you have to get a microscope and look for a missing semicolon or whatever busted the code. So my mind has been "elsewhere" for the last few days.

I'm with you 100% on the freedom thing! :thumb:

[gilgal]

Hebrews is the 19th book of the New Testament as Psalm is the 19th of the Old Testament.

[heb13-13]

Ooops! That was a silly question of mine. I guess I'm getting a little rummy from too much work. I've been devoting myself fulltime to coding for the forum and website. Wrestling with this vBulletin code is extremely detail intensive and there are all sorts of little microscoptic things that go BOOM and then you have to get a microscope and look for a missing semicolon or whatever busted the code. So my mind has been "elsewhere" for the last few days.

I'm with you 100% on the freedom thing! :thumb:

You're doing a great job. Appreciate all your efforts. What did you think of Charisma's suggestions for the UI? I thought they were pretty good.

May you get the rest you need,
Rick

[duxrow]

Hebrews is the 19th book of the New Testament as Psalm is the 19th of the Old Testament.

Thanks Gil, hadn't noticed that.. :yo:

19 names/generations prior to Abraham (adding a 14 column makes 33 to David)

19TH hole in golf means it's all behind you! ha. best I can muster today. Blessings!

[gilgal]

Hebrews has a lot of quotes from Psalms.