A Loving Father?

[Rose]

Most Christians have been taught that the Bible is the word of God and is a guide book for believers on issues of morality, and ways to train up our children in righteousness. God is portrayed as our heavenly father, whom earthly men should pattern themselves after. So, let me ask this simple question using the Bible as my guide book: Is this an example a loving father….?
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Deut. 22:28-29 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold (seize) of her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
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I should hope that no sane person would say yes. Just imagine, a young girl is seized and raped by a man, all the man is required to do under God’s law is to pay the girls father 50 pieces of silver, then the man is obliged marry the girl he just raped and never divorce her! All I can say is fortunately our 'loving' heavenly father doesn’t make the laws in our modern society. It’s time to wake up, take off the blinders and see what the Bible is really saying.

Here are a couple more biblical examples showing how a father would rather give his daughters to be raped in order to protect the honor of his male guests. The truly sad thing is that there is not one scintilla of rebuke for the actions of the father….they are in fact condoned!
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Gen. 19:5-8 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? Bring them out unto us, that we may know them. And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Judges 19:23-25 And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly. Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.
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If these verses aren’t enough to make your blood boil, I think you better read them again. This is the Bible that children in Sunday school and their parents in Church are being taught is the word of their loving heavenly father...:mad:

Rose

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Here are a couple more biblical examples showing how a father would rather give his daughters to be raped in order to protect the honor of his male guests. The truly sad thing is that there is not one scintilla of rebuke for the actions of the father….they are in fact condoned!
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Gen. 19:5-8 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? Bring them out unto us, that we may know them. And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Judges 19:23-25 And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly. Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.
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If these verses aren’t enough to make your blood boil, I think you better read them again. This is the Bible that children in Sunday school and their parents in Church are being taught is the word of their loving heavenly father...:mad:

Rose
The Bible strongly declares that Lot was righteous:

2 Peter 2:7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds) --
So what then does "righteous" mean? Throwing your daughter out the door to be raped by a mob???

[Charles Wade]

honor[/I] of his male guests. The truly sad thing is that there is not one scintilla of rebuke for the actions of the father….they are in fact condoned!
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Gen. 19:5-8 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? Bring them out unto us, that we may know them. And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

If these verses aren’t enough to make your blood boil, I think you better read them again. This is the Bible that children in Sunday school and their parents in Church are being taught is the word of their loving heavenly father...:mad:

Rose
Dear Rose, I think you are not taking in consideration, since you never identified the guest as Angels as the prior verses clearly states who the two guest are. They are angels incarnate and born through the womb as humans. Angels that never sinned against heaven & Father. They were sanctified and ordained/commissioned just like Jeremiah the prophet as written in his book in chapter one verse five states.

Now Lot knowing this, seems to me was just as prepared as Abe to sacrifice his son Isaac.

This would certainly have something to do with Lot's decision since the angelic guests are in Lot's care and a guest under his roof.Check out the culture @ the time, the audience it was spoken to, and how a guest was protected while under their roofs of loving Fathers.Plus you didnt tell the rest of the story, it turned out just like Abe and Isaac. There is such a thing called faith in your heavenly Father.In addition Lot offered them to them that were Homosexuals, who don't want sex with a woman! A loving Father can also be as wise as a serpent,and harmless as doves.

I have never faced such a decision so I have to leave it at that.
Blessings chas.

[Rose]

Dear Rose, I think you are not taking in consideration, since you never identified the guest as Angels as the prior verses clearly states who the two guest are. They are angels incarnate and born through the womb as humans. Angels that never sinned against heaven & Father. They were sanctified and ordained/commissioned just like Jeremiah the prophet as written in his book in chapter one verse five states.

Now Lot knowing this, seems to me was just as prepared as Abe to sacrifice his son Isaac.

This would certainly have something to do with Lot's decision since the angelic guests are in Lot's care and a guest under his roof.Check out the culture @ the time, the audience it was spoken to, and how a guest was protected while under their roofs of loving Fathers.Plus you didnt tell the rest of the story, it turned out just like Abe and Isaac. There is such a thing called faith in your heavenly Father.In addition Lot offered them to them that were Homosexuals, who don't want sex with a woman! A loving Father can also be as wise as a serpent,and harmless as doves.

I have never faced such a decision so I have to leave it at that.
Blessings chas.

Hi Chas,

So, are you saying that because angels were involved, Lot was justified in offering his daughters to be raped? :eek: Sorry, but I can't have faith in a god like that - it only confirms he was created by the male mind for their own purposes.:p

And, I think you have forgotten how the story ends in Judges 19....not so good! :mad:
Judges 19:24-29 Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go. Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light. And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold. And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place. And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.

All the Best,
Rose

[CWH]

I agree with Charles. I think we need to look into the sexual cultures of those ancient times. Lot was smart enough as he knew those homosexuals will never want the maidens but the angelic men. I find this puzzling from the male point of view...which male men don't want virgin maidens? Well, men do you agree? Even among homosexuals, there are bisexual who would want those maidens. I then realized that in those ancient cultures, it was said (I read somewhere) that if one were to have sex with angels, one would attain immortality or blessings, and that's was what those men were after!

Talking about sexual cultures, there are some ancient and tribal sexual cultures such as those in New Guinea and the Amazon jungles, Africa that will be abhorring to us but it's a norm to them such as offering their wives, daughters, sisters for sex to male guests as a welcoming or friendship gesture. Perhaps, that was the sexual culture existing in Lot's time.

Many Blessings.

[Rose]

I agree with Charles. I think we need to look into the sexual cultures of those ancient times. Lot was smart enough as he knew those homosexuals will never want the maidens but the angelic men. I find this puzzling from the male point of view...which male men don't want virgin maidens? Well, men do you agree? Even among homosexuals, there are bisexual who would want those maidens. I then realized that in those ancient cultures, it was said (I read somewhere) that if one were to have sex with angels, one would attain immortality or blessings, and that's was what those men were after!

Talking about sexual cultures, there are some ancient and tribal sexual cultures such as those in New Guinea and the Amazon jungles, Africa that will be abhorring to us but it's a norm to them such as offering their wives, daughters, sisters for sex to male guests as a welcoming or friendship gesture. Perhaps, that was the sexual culture existing in Lot's time.

Many Blessings.

You missed the whole point Cheow! People do all sort of immoral things, the problem arises when it is condoned by God, in a book that is promoted as his word!

Rose

[Charles Wade]

You missed the whole point Cheow! People do all sort of immoral things, the problem arises when it is condoned by God, in a book that is promoted as his word!

Rose
Dear Rose, I understand that you can not have faith in that kind of god as you have written many times. Surely you can see the spiritual meaning in Abe's case, if not Lots.... Lot did have faith in the same God as Abe did & it was counted as righteousness.

The point is in the case of Lot & the angels are similar to Abe & Isaac and wise as a serpent.

In Abe's case it was faith, Abe being as wise as a serpent{wisdom} knew the promise {of a God that can not lie} that his seed through Sarah, that he would become the father of a great nation {Israel}. Abe { because of wisdom} knew it was a TEST {to sacrifice Isaac}, because of his faith. He knew that he was dealing with A just God that could not lie. The faith that an old woman would bear his child...The faith that when told by God, to separate from the others, also to separate his sons for only Isaac to remained and his maidservant and his other son had to go with another promise that Ishmael would be the father of another nation.

Abe knew that God can not lie and offered Isaac on that promise only, knowing,Isaac was the seed as God had promised.See the wisdom of Abe and no matter how you cut it, God is moving Abe from blind faith into a living faith and both God & Abe stayed true.

Now lets start with Lot meeting the Angels at the gate....The Angels don't have to tell righteous Lot they are angels. Lot was so spiritually enlightened that he recognized them. He knew he was being entertained by angels and was very aware of it. I wonder sometimes if an angel has entertained me unaware. But we are talking about a righteous man, not ole Chas.

This is faith Rose, this is the spiritual side to this literal story....It is faith in a God that was not rejected. These are examples of a living faith, that moves mountains, not of a blind faith in there God.....The one that you abhor and will not recognize & have no faith in....So you can't change the faith that people have in their God, because you see nothing but injustice towrads women in this story and I see faith and wisdom by Lot. You see an unloving Father and a condoning god of injustice in this story.

This story is all good and not a good example as the strange story in Judges.....
Hi Chas,

So, are you saying that because angels were involved, Lot was justified in offering his daughters to be raped? :eek: Sorry, but I can't have faith in a god like that - it only confirms he was created by the male mind for their own purposes.:p

All the Best,
Rose

No Rose,I amk saying Lot was fill of God's wisdom and had great faith. I am saying that in order to be call righteous by God, you have to be filled with wisdom from that God.....We are not talking blind faith here.....We are talking about a living faith, & once it is acquired and put into action, the blind see and lame walk and daughters are not molested by horrible acting men. That is the loving wise Father I see & it boils your blood......so we are far apart on agreeing here on Lot being an unloving Father.....and sure God condoned it and rewarded Lot & the daughters and His wife.....But the woman looked back, and now I guess you blame that pillar of salt on God too. It just shows,her faith was very weak because she looked back longingly. And best for God to turn her into a pillar of salt and take her life before she goes plum to the bottom of the Abyss...Then she can go first{before lot & her daughter} and wait like King David and the others for the resurrection of the atonement of Jesus to lift her to the kingdom. She just put the icing on the cake of longing to be back in the city..The story of little faith.

Rose , I am not trying to convert you.I see things too I don't understand.Blind faith has to be better than no faith...I will not discard my God, but I will discard all stories that don't exhibit or portray the loving God I know & that I have faith in.

In His Love, Chas.

[Rose]

Dear Rose, I understand that you can not have faith in that kind of god as you have written many times. Surely you can see the spiritual meaning in Abe's case, if not Lots.... Lot did have faith in the same God as Abe did & it was counted as righteousness.

The point is in the case of Lot & the angels are similar to Abe & Isaac and wise as a serpent.

In Abe's case it was faith, Abe being as wise as a serpent{wisdom} knew the promise {of a God that can not lie} that his seed through Sarah, that he would become the father of a great nation {Israel}. Abe { because of wisdom} knew it was a TEST {to sacrifice Isaac}, because of his faith. He knew that he was dealing with A just God that could not lie. The faith that an old woman would bear his child...The faith that when told by God, to separate from the others, also to separate his sons for only Isaac to remained and his maidservant and his other son had to go with another promise that Ishmael would be the father of another nation.

Abe knew that God can not lie and offered Isaac on that promise only, knowing,Isaac was the seed as God had promised.See the wisdom of Abe and no matter how you cut it, God is moving Abe from blind faith into a living faith and both God & Abe stayed true.

Now lets start with Lot meeting the Angels at the gate....The Angels don't have to tell righteous Lot they are angels. Lot was so spiritually enlightened that he recognized them. He knew he was being entertained by angels and was very aware of it. I wonder sometimes if an angel has entertained me unaware. But we are talking about a righteous man, not ole Chas.

This is faith Rose, this is the spiritual side to this literal story....It is faith in a God that was not rejected. These are examples of a living faith, that moves mountains, not of a blind faith in there God.....The one that you abhor and will not recognize & have no faith in....So you can't change the faith that people have in their God, because you see nothing but injustice towrads women in this story and I see faith and wisdom by Lot. You see an unloving Father and a condoning god of injustice in this story.

This story is all good and not a good example as the strange story in Judges.....

No Rose,I amk saying Lot was fill of God's wisdom and had great faith. I am saying that in order to be call righteous by God, you have to be filled with wisdom from that God.....We are not talking blind faith here.....We are talking about a living faith, & once it is acquired and put into action, the blind see and lame walk and daughters are not molested by horrible acting men. That is the loving wise Father I see & it boils your blood......so we are far apart on agreeing here on Lot being an unloving Father.....and sure God condoned it and rewarded Lot & the daughters and His wife.....But the woman looked back, and now I guess you blame that pillar of salt on God too. It just shows,her faith was very weak because she looked back longingly. And best for God to turn her into a pillar of salt and take her life before she goes plum to the bottom of the Abyss...Then she can go first{before lot & her daughter} and wait like King David and the others for the resurrection of the atonement of Jesus to lift her to the kingdom. She just put the icing on the cake of longing to be back in the city..The story of little faith.

Rose , I am not trying to convert you.I see things too I don't understand.Blind faith has to be better than no faith...I will not discard my God, but I will discard all stories that don't exhibit or portray the loving God I know & that I have faith in.

In His Love, Chas.
Hi Chas,

I appreciate your taking the time to converse with me; discussing these issues with an open mind can only lead to a better understanding.

The reason I keep bringing you back to Judges 19 (which you have not dealt with) is because it is the weak link that causes the chain to break. As you pointed out Gen. 19 has somewhat of a good outcome, but Judges 19 does not, and this atrocity is totally condoned by God. Just that one incident (and there are many more) breaks the chain of God being a righteous law-giver; consequently causing the whole to fall into disrepute.

On the other hand, viewing the Bible from the perspective of being written by human hands make perfect sense....people are unfair, power hungry, vengeful, cruel, uncaring, biased and the list could go on and on. The god portrayed in the Bible is given all those attributes and more - that is why I say the Bible is a book of human construct. This does not mean the Bible cannot contain wisdom, but rather explains very clearly why Scripture is full of contradictions and falsehoods.

All the Best,
Rose

[Charles Wade]

Hi Chas,

I appreciate your taking the time to converse with me; discussing these issues with an open mind can only lead to a better understanding.

The reason I keep bringing you back to Judges 19 (which you have not dealt with) is because it is the weak link that causes the chain to break. As you pointed out Gen. 19 has somewhat of a good outcome, but Judges 19 does not, and this atrocity is totally condoned by God. Just that one incident (and there are many more) breaks the chain of God being a righteous law-giver; consequently causing the whole to fall into disrepute.

On the other hand, viewing the Bible from the perspective of being written by human hands make perfect sense....people are unfair, power hungry, vengeful, cruel, uncaring, biased and the list could go on and on. The god portrayed in the Bible is given all those attributes and more - that is why I say the Bible is a book of human construct. This does not mean the Bible cannot contain wisdom, but rather explains very clearly why Scripture is full of contradictions and falsehoods.

All the Best,
Rose

You are absolutely right and I agree about those things. Also I have been avoiding this one for right now......I have never heard that story... Wow Rose that is a shocker :eek::confused: I need time to read about this caper. I can not answer this...I need time to ponder this & that is certainly no guarantee I will have a logical answer.... It might be the one I have to discard to keep from injuring my faith....This is new and when I read it I wanted to start studying this to give myself an answer if possible, but I have been having to do some "Honey Do's" for my little bride...
Are you sure God condoned such an act, or did this nut do it. It was so shocking ,that I just went OMG and just read it fast. faster than I can read for comprehension. I am a slow reader if I want to comprehend. And I will not go to the next paragraph if I don't understand the one I just read,,,Saying this it might take me 3 months to read it.lol

I agree with this:
"The reason I keep bringing you back to Judges 19 (which you have not dealt with) is because it is the weak link that causes the chain to break."

Rose I haven't tried yet to look at this, but wow.... I feel like how can this be answered, with out completely discarding it.

Dear, we may disagree on things, But I am on your side about stepping out like you have to find truth like you have. I read your blog and you know I do.I will give you an answer if the spirit gives me one......But I think this Judges deal runs deeper than my shallow allowed/allotted enlightenment at this time in my life..... and BD has wrote, that if it portrays God condoning such acts that I just read and never heard of for the 1st time in my life,to dismiss them as huge errors of men that scribed the words......Looks like this is the one is the grand day of them ... but Moses is suppose to have written the first 5 and even tho he was Moses, so what and what if Moses didn't write them....Ole mose is full of surprises HUH? Just like this forum....exciting and blood boiling experiences..lol

Tee he. I swear I had to look at the bible to see if you was hallucinating. I just don't know....

Things have finally quietened down where I can read a few chapters before & after and see if I can catch a thought on this.......but I certainly am not holding my breath on this one...SHOCK...what is this him dividing the concubine into 12 parts...if it had been 666 parts then us futurist could ...ha ha.... you know, write another prophecy book.....

Rose thank you for this very good conversation and the eye opening story....
Where you find this stuff? Really? I would hate to be on the run with you tracking me...... Men have done a number on the Bible!!!!!!!
Blessings ...Chas.

[Rose]

You are absolutely right and I agree about those things. Also I have been avoiding this one for right now......I have never heard that story... Wow Rose that is a shocker :eek::confused: I need time to read about this caper. I can not answer this...I need time to ponder this & that is certainly no guarantee I will have a logical answer.... It might be the one I have to discard to keep from injuring my faith....This is new and when I read it I wanted to start studying this to give myself an answer if possible, but I have been having to do some "Honey Do's" for my little bride...
Are you sure God condoned such an act, or did this nut do it. It was so shocking ,that I just went OMG and just read it fast. faster than I can read for comprehension. I am a slow reader if I want to comprehend. And I will not go to the next paragraph if I don't understand the one I just read,,,Saying this it might take me 3 months to read it.lol

I agree with this:
"The reason I keep bringing you back to Judges 19 (which you have not dealt with) is because it is the weak link that causes the chain to break."

Rose I haven't tried yet to look at this, but wow.... I feel like how can this be answered, with out completely discarding it.

Dear, we may disagree on things, But I am on your side about stepping out like you have to find truth like you have. I read your blog and you know I do.I will give you an answer if the spirit gives me one......But I think this Judges deal runs deeper than my shallow allowed/allotted enlightenment at this time in my life..... and BD has wrote, that if it portrays God condoning such acts that I just read and never heard of for the 1st time in my life,to dismiss them as huge errors of men that scribed the words......Looks like this is the one is the grand day of them ... but Moses is suppose to have written the first 5 and even tho he was Moses, so what and what if Moses didn't write them....Ole mose is full of surprises HUH? Just like this forum....exciting and blood boiling experiences..lol

Tee he. I swear I had to look at the bible to see if you was hallucinating. I just don't know....

Things have finally quietened down where I can read a few chapters before & after and see if I can catch a thought on this.......but I certainly am not holding my breath on this one...SHOCK...what is this him dividing the concubine into 12 parts...if it had been 666 parts then us futurist could ...ha ha.... you know, write another prophecy book.....

Rose thank you for this very good conversation and the eye opening story....
Where you find this stuff? Really? I would hate to be on the run with you tracking me...... Men have done a number on the Bible!!!!!!!
Blessings ...Chas.

Hi Chas,

I want to sincerely thank you for your heartfelt honesty....it is such a breath of fresh air. :D

I'll let Judges 19 sink in a bit before I throw anymore shockers at you, but believe me there are plenty more...:eek: Stories like the one in Judges have bothered me for a long time, but I just set them aside because I didn't know what to do with them, till finally I couldn't close my eyes to it any longer.

Once I decided to face the truth of what the Bible really says, a wonderful sense of freedom has surrounded me. I can't fully express how good it feels to speak freely and live in the light of truth.

All the Best,
Rose

[Charles Wade]

Rose, I think you are absolutely correct on this unbalance that you & Ram express of male female in the Bible......This one chapter goes all the way back to the book of Joshua where I started on this after reading Exodus Chapter 19 slowly with good comprehension. Tee hee I use the new addition of easy Net bible ,I will not quibble over the letter nor the tittle of the law because I am told that it quenches the spirit.

Look at this....the unbalance is show because Man is responsible here on earth in the flesh.....It is true that most men has disregarded woman since somewhere in Genesis.....Adam is held responsible because he was not deceived. Now whether it is easier for woman to be deceived or man to be IS NOT THE POINT, the point is THAT IN THE KINGDOM, WHICH IS OUR GOAL THAT THERE IS NO GENDER.

God with out a doubt shows that man can rule nothing, unless there is an anointing from Him.He [man] will not allow woman to help even tho God said Eve was Adams helpmate. If man & woman can become one & make the balance then that family is bless by God in that union.
In the mean wild Man is warring with nations taking and killing Concubines because they are Literally chattel property by law according to the footnotes I looked up....... with the Hebrews or Hebrew man....

Man can NOT rule alone & God proves it......all thru the bible...... & man through this free will has wrecked things .If Man would come together in marriage and love his weaker in physical abilities wife, instead of beating and slapping her too, they could become one........Just like Jesus has become with God..... Jesus become one with God thru love and we must become with God thru our wives and love them. LOVE THEM LIKE CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH AND GAVE UP HIS LIFE FOR US.....
mAN CRAPS ON EVERYTHING HE TOUCHES AND I SHOULD KNOW I AM THE LAST OF THE MACHOS. SEE THE MYSTERY OF THE CHURCH....BECOMING BALANCE HERE ON THIS EARTH AND IT TAKES A LOVING MOTHER FATHER AS ONE......TO BRING THERE CHILDREN UP WITH TRUTH which is love, be3cause God is Love & truth.

this BIBLE HAS NOTHING TO DO AS GOD BEING OUT OF BALANCE...MAN IS OUT OF BALANCE..AND IT HAS TO DO WITH HOW MAN TREATS HIS HELPMATE THAT HE BEATS ON, CHEATS ON AND REPEATS ON......The Bible shows man at his best and does not discriminate....it shows the truth how man is worthless without balance and balance receives the anointing.

The key here is this statement that is repeated starting in chapter 16 or 17......... you will love this one: In those days Israel had no king. Each man did what he considered to be right.

I will show the outline in the morning and you will see just how bad God wanted to gather Israel under his wing ,like chicks { all the warring men]....wow they a terrible bunch....
It boils down to just exactly like Paul wrote about man.

1:21 For although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God or give him thanks, but they became futile in their thoughts and their senseless hearts 44 were darkened. 1:22 Although they claimed 45 to be wise, they became fools 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for an image resembling mortal human beings 46 or birds or four-footed animals 47 or reptiles.1:24 Therefore God gave them over 48 in the desires of their hearts to impurity, to dishonor 49 their bodies among themselves. 50

it's all about man out of balance and that is why Jesus said: He answered them, 9 “What did Moses command you?” 10:4 They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of dismissal and to divorce her.” 10 10:5 But Jesus said to them, “He wrote this commandment for you because of your hard hearts. 11 10:6 But from the beginning of creation he 12 made them male and female. 13 10:7 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother, 14 10:8 and the two will become one flesh. 15 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 10:9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

This disorder began with a separation of the spirits and has to come together here on earth our test ground our battle ground and he that overcometh gets THE HIDDEN MANA. so we had better get together and in balance or I gurarrantee just like old Harold Camping, this world will come unglued because of the unbalance and that applies. Especially the divine order of the lawlessness over truth......good over evil, darkness over light...There has to be balance which is divine order......
well I didn't proof read this so here it is first draft.....chas

of man....the inbalance

[Charles Wade]

Follow trhis bunch of cats,,,,Man they are bad bad boys for almost all generations from leaving Egypt till today...Still out of order/balance and getting worst till the preterists see a new world,,,Either Jesus will come back or they will blow us up all by wars, or japan radiation ect, or by there experiments that BD says God has to intervene and shorten the days or no flesh could be saved.
I don't see no futurist nor preterists revival around the corner...All I see is Hagee and van impe {false prophets}& the very low and the rapid decline of spirituality in humans.
God has balance through His divine order

1. His divine order and when broken it is has the cause & effect
2. There is no accidents, because God is sovereign. That does not mean he condones but allows & seldom intervenes in humans free will.
3. Free will to humans

read my notes & then chapter 18 to peg the Levite in chapter 19 verse one...They jews get so screwed up and no spirituality so they invent a religion,,,I kid you not! And that Levite in chapter worked for Micah who starts the new religion as his professional paid priest. Dig this, It seems he is the old man that meets the concubine man...Now pay attention to what seemed right to man .....to cut her up{footnotes said bones} and send them to the 12 tribes as:19:29 When he got home, he took a knife, grabbed his concubine, and carved her up into twelve pieces. Then he sent the pieces throughout Israel. Everyone who saw the sight said, “Nothing like this has happened or been witnessed during the entire time since the Israelite left the land of Egypt! Take careful note of it! Discuss it and speak!”

and that is what we are discussing right now...Look how low we have dropped spiritually..... take heed....even tho that was for the audience of that day it can apply to day as to discuss

The last chapter of Joshua he explains all of God's blessings bestow on Israel since being deliver from Egypt.Remember they have not done to well in 40 years of the wilderness and still in Rebellion
24:19 Joshua warned the people, “You will not keep worshiping the Lord, for he is a holy God. He is a jealous God who will not forgive your rebellion or your sins.
24:20 you abandon the Lord and worship foreign gods, he will turn against you; he will bring disaster on you and destroy you, though he once treated you well.”
An Era Ends with the death Joshua and Caleb is charge24:31 Israel worshiped the Lord throughout Joshua’s lifetime and as long as the elderly men who outlived him remained alive. These men had experienced firsthand everything the Lord had done for Israel.

Judah Takes the Lead in Chapter 1 of Judges
1:1 After Joshua died, the Israelites asked 1 the Lord, “Who should lead the invasion against the Canaanites and launch the attack?”
2:3 At that time I also warned you, ‘If you disobey, I will not drive out the Canaanites before you. They will ensnare you 10 and their gods will lure you away.’
2:2 The angelic messenger sent says: " you must not make an agreement with the people who live in this land. You should tear down the altars where they worship"

2:10 That entire generation passed away; a new generation grew up that had not personally experienced the Lord’s presence or seen what he had done for Israel.
A Monotonous Cycle starts

2:11 The Israelites did evil before 25 the Lord by worshiping 26 the Baals. 2:12 They abandoned the Lord God of their ancestors 27 who brought them out of the land of Egypt. They followed other gods – the gods of the nations who lived around them. They worshiped 28 them and made the Lord angry. 2:13 They abandoned the Lord and worshiped Baal and the Ashtars.
3:5 The Israelites lived among the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. 3:6 They took the Canaanites’ daughters as wives and gave their daughters to the Canaanites; 6 they worshiped 7 their gods as well.

Othniel: A Model Leader
3:12 The Israelites again did evil in the Lord’s sight
4:2 The Lord turned them over to King Jabin of Canaan, who ruled in Hazor

6:36 The Lord’s spirit took control of Gideon. Gideon said to God, “If you really intend to use me to deliver Israel, as you promised, then give me a sign as proof.

Well Gideon finally gets it rolling again with faith & Gideon Routs the Enemy in chapter 7 ....... & here come the victories

Gideon Tracks Down the Midianite Kings in chapter 8 and becomes a hero
Gideon Rejects a Crown but Makes an Ephod 8:22 The men of Israel said to Gideon, “Rule over us – you, your son, and your grandson. For you have delivered us from Midian’s power.

Gideon’s Story Ends Israel Returns to Baal-Worship 8:33 After Gideon died, the Israelites again prostituted themselves to the Baals. They made Baal-Berith their god 8:35 They did not treat the family of Jerub-Baal (that is, Gideon) fairly in return for all the good he had done for Israel.

Abimelech the son of Gideon Murders His Brothers & 70 1/2 brothers and takes over and makes KING 9:6 All the leaders of Shechem and Beth Millo assembled and then went and made Abimelech king by the oak near the pillar 16 in Shechem.

In Chapter 9 ......Jotham’s, Abimelech 1/2 brother gives a parable to the people, it is a curse on Abimalech ....If you have read this far it is a great parable worth reading

9:56 God repaid Abimelech for the evil he did to his father by murdering his seventy half-brothers.
9:57 God also repaid the men of Shechem for their evil deeds. The curse spoken by Jotham son of Jerub-Baal fell on them.

Stability Restored
10:1 After Abimelech’s death, 1 Tola son of Puah, grandson 2 of Dodo, from the tribe of Issachar, 3 rose up to deliver Israel. He lived in Shamir in the Ephraimite hill country. 10:2 He led 4 Israel for twenty-three years, then died and was buried in Shamir.

The Lord’s Patience Runs Short
10:6 The Israelites again did evil in the Lord’s sight. They worshiped 8 the Baals and the Ashtars, 9 as well as the gods of Syria, Sidon, 10 Moab, the Ammonites, and the Philistines. They abandoned the Lord and did not worship him

An Outcast Becomes a General and the wars continue under him
Civil Strife Mars the Victories under him
12:7 Jephthah led 19 Israel for six years; then he 20 died and was buried in his city in Gilead.

13. 1 Order Restored & Samson’s Birth 13:1 The Israelites again did evil in the Lord’s sight, so the Lord handed them over to the Philistines for forty years.

Samson’s Unconsummated Marriage

Samson's downfall
16:1 Samson went to Gaza. There he saw a prostitute and went in to have sex with her.
16:4 After this Samson fell in love with a woman named Delilah, who lived in the Sorek Valley.

16:30 Samson’s Death and Burial
17:1 Micah Makes His Own Religion 17:1 There was a man named Micah from the Ephraimite hill country.
He steals his mothers money returns it & she rewards him & the money is used :" He made an ephod and some personal idols and hired one of his sons to serve as a priest.
17:6 Here is the key: to what the levite in chapter 19:1} from the Ephraimite hill country from the same country as Micah: In those days Israel had no king. Each man did what he considered to be right.
17 :1 Micah Hires a Professional 17:3 There was a young man from Bethlehem in Judah. He was a Levite who had been temporarily residing among the tribe of Judah. This man left the town of Bethlehem in Judah to find another place to live.
This is the same levite priest it seems that housed the levite and beg them men not to dishonor his guest.

They went from chapter one all the way to a new religion and that religion was because there were not yet a King in those days....so Man did what seemed right LOL LOL ha ha and chapter 19 was to remind them just how far down the slopes of the abyss man went with out balance and guidance from God, which they just kept rejecting.. till they just done what seemed right to men....
Its been fun Chas,

[Rose]

Hi Chas,

I must say, your open mindedness has greatly impressed me...:thumb: I wish more people would respond in the manner you have....:signthankspin:

All the Best,
Rose

[Charles Wade]

Dear Rose, I have read the entire Bible and revisit scriptures daily...It has been 20 years since I read the book of Judges or quoted from it, except for searching as to when Samson got his anointing or "the spirit of God seized" him as stated..
What a great lesson & I thank you for the incentive to read the book of Judges again.. It has been very very beneficial or better stated a blessing to me & I hope for others that read your thread.


Hi Chas,

I must say, your open mindedness has greatly impressed me...:thumb: I wish more people would respond in the manner you have....:signthankspin:
All the Best,
Rose
Thank you Rose for your kind words.I truly endeavor to keep an open mind or I would not be able to discard the many false doctrines that were taught to me since childbirth.That allows me to try to ascend towards truth,instead laying stagnant or worst start descending or backslide as the Baptist say.

This forum has been a very good experience for me because here a person is allowed to express themselves on any doctrine.....It is freedom and not a pew church type atmosphere. I thank you & Ram and all on this forum for the opportunity to discuss matters that I have never been allowed on the other forum of closed minded Christians.

IMHO The book of Judges theme is nothing except God trying to guide man. God had just delivered them out of the wilderness and as soon as the ones that had experience God leading them out of Egypt died.The real trouble begins.
From there they just start worshiping all Idols of other nations continuously. And then finally to Micah & the new religion, which is for man to do what seemed right to him, because of rejection of the guidance of God.

You can see that Israel does do better under guidance, even under Saul there first king, until he blows His anointing which causes him to go crazy, and then is replaced by David.

David being a man messes up to,BUT David would repent. His anointing shows that if we let God direct us and stay in the groove, we as man do much better.And God loves for his children to repent of the situation and that allows us draw closer to his never ending Love for his Children.

Now lets face it Men, we have controlled this world since day one and the heat lies on our hard hearts. Just as Jesus said that Moses only wrote the Divorce law in, because of mans hard heart. Mans heart can & will get dark as coal,and as hard as steel if we reject His guidance...His Love we are suppose to portray as being gentle as doves.

Rose as far as the Biblical curse on woman, I truly believe that has come from man ruling since day one.....So God has let man become the whipping post, because man has written the Bible and portrayed what man deems as assets. Because they just shun the good advice that their help mate offers and many many men treat women with brutal force, and these mighty men are cowards because women can not fight back..

So when we get to chapter 19....... man is entirely without guidance because they have no anointed King YET to rule them......so they do what they deem right.

I have no doubt that this Concubine event occurred but God does not condone such actions. This story is recorded because God wants to show what happens when spirituality gets as low as men doing what they think is right.

Then where this Levite cuts the concubine in to 12 parts and sends the bones through out Israel for them in that day to stop & think & discuss this matter as the last verse shows.
"Then he sent the pieces throughout Israel. "Everyone who saw the sight said, “Nothing like this has happened or been witnessed during the entire time since the Israelites left the land of Egypt! Take careful note of it! Discuss it and speak of it"

IMHO this theme of Judges shows that a separation of the spirits of man & wife is as detrimental as when the angelic spirits separated themselves from God of their own free will, which caused the fall of Angels.

Now in this case of the wife /concubine read it, she is called a concubine then wife which took me to the footnotes..and they say a concubine can be treated as chattel property or his wife, but that is also so left to the man.

In this case {only} the concubine got angry and separated of her own free will from her master or husband and getting back home did not turn out well for her......But, if she had not got angry and separated herself from the oneness of the relationship, we would not be reading & discussing what was the most appalling story I have read and nothing as bad as this happened in all Israel's memory until that day. Israel was to take a close look at the bones of this woman to make them ...LOOK and discuss what causes these things.

We can NOT separate ourselves from the oneness of God. Nor can man separate from our anointed relationship of our mate or bad things happen. Simply because of the "cause & effect" of breaking God's almighty Divine order of our relationships with him... Because we just get worst & worst and fall into the abyss.

IMHO this is how I spiritually see this chapter 19 of the book of Judges.
In His love chas.
addition: Even tho the concubine is dead as she did not respond, this still shows man's selfishness as he threw out his wife which he took servants & two donkeys to retrieve. The love of his life he gave over to these horrible men, just to save his weak ass, because he deemed it right in his peanut sculled brain. What a man, huh Rose? That's the moral of this story to me by cause & effect of leaving the love of God.