Lucifer in Septuagint

[gilgal]

I'm curious how Lucifer made it's name into the Septuagint?


Septuagint
Esaias
14:12 How has Lucifer, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven! He that sent [orders] to all the nations is crushed to the earth.

14:12 πῶς ἐξέπεσεν ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ ὁ ἑωσφόρος ὁ πρωὶ ἀνατέλλων συνετρίβη εἰς τὴν γῆν ὁ ἀποστέλλων πρὸς πάντα τὰ ἔθνη

Masoretic
Isaiah
14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Since the name comes from Latin.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I'm curious how Lucifer made it's name into the Septuagint?



Septuagint
Esaias
14:12 How has Lucifer, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven! He that sent [orders] to all the nations is crushed to the earth.

14:12 πῶς ἐξέπεσεν ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ ὁ ἑωσφόρος ὁ πρωὶ ἀνατέλλων συνετρίβη εἰς τὴν γῆν ὁ ἀποστέλλων πρὸς πάντα τὰ ἔθνη

Masoretic
Isaiah
14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!


Since the name comes from Latin.

The name "Lucifer" is not found in the Septuagint. It came from the Latin Vulgate:

Isaiah 14:12 quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes
The word "lucifer" is the Latin name of the planet Venus, aka the "morning star" known either as Eosophorus (bringer of the dawn) or Phosphoros (bringer of the light) in Greek. We find the word lucifer again as a title of Christ in the Latin Vulgate:

VUL 2 Peter 1:19 et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris
This verse tells us to wait until LUCIFER rises in our hearts!

The King James Bible copied the name Lucifer from the Vulgate. It is one of the most ridiculous of all the errors introduced by that version. Countless millions of people erroneously believe that Lucifer is a name of Satan. This error is propagated by countless "Bible teachers" who are ignorant of what the Bible actually teaches. This is why Christians in general are so bloody ignorant. Neither they nor their "shepherds" have half a clue about what is actually in the book they call the "Word of God."

[Kangaroo Jack]

RAM wrote:
The King James Bible copied the name Lucifer from the Vulgate. It is one of the most ridiculous of all the errors introduced by that version. Countless millions of people erroneously believe that Lucifer is a name of Satan. This error is propagated by countless "Bible teachers" who are ignorant of what the Bible actually teaches. This is why Christians in general are so bloody ignorant. Neither they nor their "shepherds" have half a clue about what is actually in the book they call the "Word of God."
Hey RAM,

You are correct on this one. Lucifer was not satan. The name was applied to the king of Babylon. It starts out saying, "Take up this proverb against the KING OF BABYLON saying...."

KJ

[gilgal]

The name "Lucifer" is not found in the Septuagint. It came from the Latin Vulgate:

quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes
The word "lucifer" is the Latin name of the planet Venus, aka the "morning star" known either as Eosophorus (bringer of the dawn) or Phosphoros (bringer of the light) in Greek. We find the word lucifer again as a title of Christ in the Latin Vulgate:

VUL et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris
This verse tells us to wait until LUCIFER rises in our hearts!

The King James Bible copied the name Lucifer from the Vulgate. It is one of the most ridiculous of all the errors introduced by that version. Countless millions of people erroneously believe that Lucifer is a name of Satan. This error is propagated by countless "Bible teachers" who are ignorant of what the Bible actually teaches. This is why Christians in general are so bloody ignorant. Neither they nor their "shepherds" have half a clue about what is actually in the book they call the "Word of God."
My grandmother's name was Lucifer.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

My grandmother's name was Lucifer.
That's very interesting. Where was she born? This site (http://www.gpeters.com/names/baby-names.php?name=Lucifer) says the name Lucifer is usually a girl's name, and has a similar popularity as names like Elaine, Joyce, Sandy, Alison, and Andrea. I've know women with all those names, except Lucifer. I think folks forgot the real meaning in this country because they got confused by the KJV version of Isaiah 14:12.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

RAM wrote:
Hey RAM,

You are correct on this one. Lucifer was not satan. The name was applied to the king of Babylon. It starts out saying, "Take up this proverb against the KING OF BABYLON saying...."

KJ
Actually, that's not quite correct because "Lucifer" was not the name of the King of Babylon either. Lucifer was the name of the morning star, aka Venus. The translators of the LXX rendered Heylel as Eosphoros, the Greek name of Venus.

[gilgal]

That's very interesting. Where was she born? This site (http://www.gpeters.com/names/baby-names.php?name=Lucifer) says the name Lucifer is usually a girl's name, and has a similar popularity as names like Elaine, Joyce, Sandy, Alison, and Andrea. I've know women with all those names, except Lucifer. I think folks forgot the real meaning in this country because they got confused by the KJV version of .
Either Cilicia or Syria. Not sure. There are two names that when cut short are named Lucy. Lucifer and Lussadzin. Lussadzin means born of light. Lucifer means bearer/bringer of light.

[Unregistered]

The name "Lucifer" is not found in the Septuagint. It came from the Latin Vulgate:

Isaiah 14:12 quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes
The word "lucifer" is the Latin name of the planet Venus, aka the "morning star" known either as Eosophorus (bringer of the dawn) or Phosphoros (bringer of the light) in Greek. We find the word lucifer again as a title of Christ in the Latin Vulgate:

VUL 2 Peter 1:19 et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris
This verse tells us to wait until LUCIFER rises in our hearts!

The King James Bible copied the name Lucifer from the Vulgate. It is one of the most ridiculous of all the errors introduced by that version. Countless millions of people erroneously believe that Lucifer is a name of Satan. This error is propagated by countless "Bible teachers" who are ignorant of what the Bible actually teaches. This is why Christians in general are so bloody ignorant. Neither they nor their "shepherds" have half a clue about what is actually in the book they call the "Word of God."

Wrong. Lucifer IS in the so called Greek Septuagint.


The Greek Septuagint and Modern Greek Today

It is also highly significant that the so called Greek Septuagint (LXX) also agrees with the reading of Lucifer. In the common copy of what is know as the Greek Septuagint, the Isaiah passage reads: πως επεσεν εκ του ουρανου, ο Εωσφορε" and the English translation is "How has LUCIFER, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven."

There are also at least three English translations of the Septuagint or Siniaticus copies, and all three of them translate it as Lucifer. The Septuagint Bible of 1954 by C.A. Muses and the Old Testament According to the Septuagint of 2009 - "How is LUCIFER fallen from heaven, that rose up in the morning!" The Septuagint online English translation can be see here

- http://ecmarsh.com/lxx/Esaias/index.htm

where it says: "How has LUCIFER, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven!" In addition to this there are The Septuagint Bible of 1954 by A.C. Muses, and the 2009 Old Testament According to the Septuagint. Then there is the modern Greek meaning of the word Εωσφορε.



The Brenton Translation 1851 (from the Greek Septuagint) - ?How has LUCIFER, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven! He that sent orders to all the nations is crushed to the earth.?


http://www.ccel.org/bible/brenton/Isaiah/14.html

The Asser Septuagint 2009 -

How is LUCIFER fallen from heaven, that rose up in the morning! He is crushed unto the earth, that sent light to all the nations.

http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/pdf/ot/prophetical.pdf


The New Brenton Translation 2012 - ?12How has LUCIFER, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven! He that sent orders to all the nations is crushed to the earth.?

http://www.katapi.org.uk/katapiNSBunix/master.html?http://www.katapi.org.uk/katapiNSBunix/Versions/versionsBookChrs.php?Cv=1&version=NBr



I have in my study a modern day Greek-English dictionary. It is called Divry's Modern English-Greek and Greek-English Desk Dictionary, published by D. C. Divry, Inc. Publishers New York 1974. If you look under the English Lucifer page 182 you get Εωσφορε, and if you look up the word Εωσφορε on page 523 (the same Greek word found in all copies of the Greek Septuagint) you get the English word Lucifer.

There is also an online English to Greek Dictionary. Simply go to the site - http://www.kypros.org/cgi-bin/lexicon Then type in the word Lucifer and what you come up with in Greek is this same word Εωσφορε that is found in the Septuagint translations and the Modern Greek Old Testament too.

The reasons I believe the King James Bible reading of Lucifer is correct are many. First, if this passage is not referring to the fall of Satan, also known as the dragon, the old serpent, the devil, leviathan, Beelzebub, etc., then we have no account in Scripture as to how he, who was originally created by God as good, became what he is today.

Here is my whole article on Isaiah 14:12 Lucifer or Morning Star, that shows why the King James Bible is absolutely correct.

http://brandplucked.webs.com/luciferormorningstar.htm

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Wrong. Lucifer IS in the so called Greek Septuagint.


The Greek Septuagint and Modern Greek Today

It is also highly significant that the so called Greek Septuagint (LXX) also agrees with the reading of Lucifer. In the common copy of what is know as the Greek Septuagint, the Isaiah passage reads: πως επεσεν εκ του ουρανου, ο Εωσφορε" and the English translation is "How has LUCIFER, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven."

There are also at least three English translations of the Septuagint or Siniaticus copies, and all three of them translate it as Lucifer. The Septuagint Bible of 1954 by C.A. Muses and the Old Testament According to the Septuagint of 2009 - "How is LUCIFER fallen from heaven, that rose up in the morning!" The Septuagint online English translation can be see here

- http://ecmarsh.com/lxx/Esaias/index.htm

where it says: "How has LUCIFER, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven!" In addition to this there are The Septuagint Bible of 1954 by A.C. Muses, and the 2009 Old Testament According to the Septuagint. Then there is the modern Greek meaning of the word Εωσφορε.

Yes, the word "Lucifer" is found in some English translations of the Greek Septuagint, but it is not found in the Greek Septuagint per se, since that book is in Greek. Obviously, the translators were following the tradition of the Latin Vulgate which introduced the word "Lucifer."



I have in my study a modern day Greek-English dictionary. It is called Divry's Modern English-Greek and Greek-English Desk Dictionary, published by D. C. Divry, Inc. Publishers New York 1974. If you look under the English Lucifer page 182 you get Εωσφορε, and if you look up the word Εωσφορε on page 523 (the same Greek word found in all copies of the Greek Septuagint) you get the English word Lucifer.

Yes, that's because some translators were following the tradition of the Vulgate. There is no justification for believing that there is any entity that goes by that name. It was introduced by the Latin translation of the Hebrew text.



The reasons I believe the King James Bible reading of Lucifer is correct are many. First, if this passage is not referring to the fall of Satan, also known as the dragon, the old serpent, the devil, leviathan, Beelzebub, etc., then we have no account in Scripture as to how he, who was originally created by God as good, became what he is today.

There are many things that are not explained in the Bible. We can't use that as a reason to make up interpretations that are not actually justified by the text itself, or people would be free to make up whatever they want. This is one of the reasons there is so much dispute about what the Bible really means. People make up interpretations without justification.

For example, where did the first century Christians get their beliefs about fallen angels? Knowledge about them is assumed throughout the NT, and there is almost nothing like it found in the OT. So where did it come from? Why did the first century Jews get that knowledge? Mostly from folk lore and non-canonical books like the Book of Enoch.




Here is my whole article on Isaiah 14:12 Lucifer or Morning Star, that shows why the King James Bible is absolutely correct.

http://brandplucked.webs.com/luciferormorningstar.htm
Thanks for the link. I'll take a look as time permits.

[sylvius]

There are many things that are not explained in the Bible. We can't use that as a reason to make up interpretations that are not actually justified by the text itself, or people would be free to make up whatever they want. This is one of the reasons there is so much dispute about what the Bible really means. People make up interpretations without justification.


How can a text justify its own interpretation?

It seems you ever stick to Christian dogma "the bible explains itself" :winking0071:

https://www.google.nl/search?q=the+bible+explainsitself&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=IRkKWa_2FqzH8AeYoLvgCQ#q=the+bible+explains+its elf

[Richard Amiel McGough]

How can a text justify its own interpretation?

That's a very "post-modern" comment. Do you have trouble interpreting a chemistry textbook? A mathematics textbook? A story like Lord of the Rings? There seems to be no problem interpreting most books. The problem is caused by a fanatical obsessive fascination with "holy books" as magical texts that contain mysterious "secrets" that only believers are able to discern "through the spirit" or whatever.



It seems you ever stick to Christian dogma "the bible explains itself" :winking0071:

Not at all! On the contrary, I explicitly stated that the Bible FAILS to explain itself on many points, which is why believers have to make up their own interpretations that are not justified by the text.

[sylvius]

the holy grail is said to be a stone from Lucifer's crown

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/the-holy-grail-as-lucifers-crown-jewel.html

crown = Hebrew "keter" -- numerical value 620 coinciding the 620 letters with which the first set of tablets of stone were inscribed, tablets that were smashed by Moses. The 620th letter said to be the stone on the crown. 620th letter is last letter of last (172nd) word "reacha" of last commandment You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, his manservant, his maidservant, his ox, his donkey, or whatever belongs to your neighbor."

or whatever belongs to your neighbor. וְכֹל אֲשֶׁר לְרֵעֶךָ

Last letter "kaf sofiet" -- the open hand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz0yg1Tx6ys&feature=youtu.be&t=25m46s

https://twitter.com/search?q=crown%20minkmaat&src=typd

[sylvius]

Not at all! On the contrary, I explicitly stated that the Bible FAILS to explain itself on many points, which is why believers have to make up their own interpretations that are not justified by the text.

So you measured it according the same dogma: the text MUST explain itself, or else it is false and of no use than to be trampled under foot.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

So you measured it according the same dogma: the text MUST explain itself, or else it is false and of no use than to be trampled under foot.
I have no "dogma" concerning the interpretation of the Bible. It is a demonstrable fact that it contains a lot of stuff that is not explained in the text itself, as well as a lot of inconsistent and contradictory material, and so believers have been arguing about how to interpret it for 2000 years, and the most devout believers cannot agree. These facts have nothing to do with me or any "dogma" you imagine I may hold.

[sylvius]

"Grail" after Hebrew "goral" = lot ?

https://books.google.nl/books?id=Hcxf_hoYOZEC&pg=PA99&lpg=PA99&dq=goral+lot+grail&source=bl&ots=T6wpoYexNT&sig=c5jDbQbzJNUJfUlFPwkSYhg63b4&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-lLT59MTRAhUEnRoKHT7UAEIQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=goral%20lot%20grail&f=false

https://twitter.com/Minkmaat/status/820892573376057344

"goral" = Greek κλῆρος

κληρονομέω = inherit

κληρονόμος = heir

Mark 12:7, This is the heir; come, let us kill him

Matthew 3:9,
And do not think you can say to yourselves, ?We have Abraham as our father.? I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.

children for Abraham = heirs.

[sylvius]

I have no "dogma" concerning the interpretation of the Bible. It is a demonstrable fact that it contains a lot of stuff that is not explained in the text itself, as well as a lot of inconsistent and contradictory material, and so believers have been arguing about how to interpret it for 2000 years, and the most devout believers cannot agree. These facts have nothing to do with me or any "dogma" you imagine I may hold.

Jewish tradition knows about an oral Torah besides the scriptural text.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/812102/jewish/What-is-the-Oral-Torah.htm

[sylvius]

A text needs to be deciphered

"decipher" -- presupposes a deeper layer of numerical values

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Jewish tradition knows about an oral Torah besides the scriptural text.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/812102/jewish/What-is-the-Oral-Torah.htm
Yep, and they've made up a truckload of silly interpretations.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

the holy grail is said to be a stone from Lucifer's crown

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/the-holy-grail-as-lucifers-crown-jewel.html

crown = Hebrew "keter" -- numerical value 620 coinciding the 620 letters with which the first set of tablets of stone were inscribed, tablets that were smashed by Moses. The 620th letter said to be the stone on the crown. 620th letter is last letter of last (172nd) word "reacha" of last commandment You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, his manservant, his maidservant, his ox, his donkey, or whatever belongs to your neighbor."

or whatever belongs to your neighbor. וְכֹל אֲשֶׁר לְרֵעֶךָ

Last letter "kaf sofiet" -- the open hand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz0yg1Tx6ys&feature=youtu.be&t=25m46s

https://twitter.com/search?q=crown%20minkmaat&src=typd
You don't need to tell me about the number 620 and the Ten Commandments. I went crazy on that train back in the day:






The Ten Commandments
http://www.biblewheel.com/images/TenCommandments.gif
Esret HaDevarim



= 1231 (http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_1231.php) =


The Crown of the Torah
http://www.biblewheel.com/images/CrownOfTheTorah.gif
Keter Torah





http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_TenC.php

http://www.biblewheel.com/images/TenC.gif

Would you say that the Greek identity "the scripture = 620" is a meaningless coincidence? Or have you changed your view about Greek gematria?

[Richard Amiel McGough]

A text needs to be deciphered

"decipher" -- presupposes a deeper layer of numerical values
Or you need to learn the meaning of "metaphor" .... :rolleyes:

[sylvius]

You don't need to tell me about the number 620 and the Ten Commandments. I went crazy on that train back in the day:






The Ten Commandments
http://www.biblewheel.com/images/TenCommandments.gif
Esret HaDevarim



= 1231 (http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_1231.php) =


The Crown of the Torah
http://www.biblewheel.com/images/CrownOfTheTorah.gif
Keter Torah





http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_TenC.php

http://www.biblewheel.com/images/TenC.gif


it is "aseret hadibrot"

עשרת הדיברות

http://www.jewfaq.org/10.htm

[sylvius]

Yep, and they've made up a truckload of silly interpretations.

"We (Christians) know better" :cool3:

[sylvius]

Or you need to learn the meaning of "metaphor" .... :rolleyes:

You need a key

Hebrew "mafteach" = opener

[sylvius]

You need a key

Hebrew "mafteach" = opener

the stone from Lucifer's crown :winking0071:

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q262/suivlys/IMG_9686.jpg (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/suivlys/media/IMG_9686.jpg.html)

[Richard Amiel McGough]

the stone from Lucifer's crown :winking0071:

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q262/suivlys/IMG_9686.jpg (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/suivlys/media/IMG_9686.jpg.html)
Wow ... that's amazing. If only I could find a key like that!

[sylvius]

http://p6.storage.canalblog.com/60/01/114107/12429831.jpg

The key is in the 1:4 ratio of the two trees,

"etz hachayim" = 233
"etz hadaaat tov vara" = 932

the word "kaf" also does show the same ratio, "20-80"

the "1-4" is in the open hand -- thumb and four fingers.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

http://p6.storage.canalblog.com/60/01/114107/12429831.jpg

The key is in the 1:4 ratio of the two trees,

"etz hachayim" = 233
"etz hadaaat tov vara" = 932

the word "kaf" also does show the same ratio, "20-80"

the "1-4" is in the open hand -- thumb and four fingers.
Key to what?

[sylvius]

Key to what?

it opens the door

door = "delet" gematria 434 coinciding the 434 words in Genesis 1.

"hashishi" is 434th word.

the letter "hey" in "hashishi" is letter of the Tetragrammaton hidden in the initial letters of "yom hashishi vaychulu hashamayim", the last two words of Genesis 1 and the first two words of Genesis 2.

The other day-indications do miss this letter.

It is "yom echad", "yom sh'ni", "yom sh'loshi", "yom r'vi'i", "yom chamishi" and then "yom hashishi"

So the letter "hey" of "hashishi" opens the door to the seventh day = sabbath.

"hey" = 5 = gematria of "ed" = the "1-4" key of knowledge

Lucifer is said to have fallen from the seventh heaven which is coinciding the seventh day.

"delet" (door) is the name of the fourth letter "dalet"

"kuf" (eye [of a needle]) name of the ninetheenth letter, Atbash of "dalet"

"dalet"= 434 = 7 x 62
"kuf" = 186 = 3 x 62

10 x 62 = 620 = "keter" = crown

[sylvius]

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/137083/jewish/Kaf-Kingship.htm


There are actually two kafs. There?s the bent kaf (כ), and the straight, or final, kaf (ך). What?s the difference?

(...)

The bent kaf therefore represents the introverted or inverted king?who remains isolated within his internalized world. The straight kaf (similar to the vav) represents the king who descends from his high level and reaches down to others in order to communicate with and rule his people.

Interestingly enough, we observe that when you affix the straight kaf as the suffix to a word, it adds the word ?you? to the root. As it says: Psalms 145:1. ?I will exalt You (ארוממך) my G‑d the King.? When you speak directly to a person, you say ?you?: lecha, לך, or becha, בך?spelled with a straight kaf: The final kaf thus literally unfolds to include the person to whom you are speaking. It represents the fact that the king has appeared to us and we are able to speak to him face to face.

The letter kaf. To bend oneself. To submit to the crown?the King, G‑d, the ruler of the universe.

bent kaf = "kaf k'fufah"

straight, or final, kaf = "kaf z'kufah"

Psalms 146:8,
The Lord gives sight to the blind; the Lord straightens the bent; the Lord loves the righteous.

the Lord straightens the bent = יְהֹוָה זֹקֵף כְּפוּפִים, "hashem zokeif k'fufim"

[sylvius]

the Nazi's were very much in search for the holy grail, i.e. the stone fallen from Lucifer's crown:

https://www.google.nl/search?q=himmler+gral&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=m4INWaaSAY3c8AfimrnYBw#q=himmler+grail

From "Luzifers Hofgesind" by Otto Rahn;

https://archive.org/stream/RahnOttoLuzifersHofgesind2006/Rahn%20Otto_Luzifers%20Hofgesind_2006#page/n29/mode/2up/search/krone

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q262/suivlys/Luzifers%20Krone.jpg (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/suivlys/media/Luzifers%20Krone.jpg.html)

[sylvius]

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/137083/jewish/Kaf-Kingship.htm


bent kaf = "kaf k'fufah"

straight, or final, kaf = "kaf z'kufah"

Psalms 146:8,
The Lord gives sight to the blind; the Lord straightens the bent; the Lord loves the righteous.

the Lord straightens the bent = יְהֹוָה זֹקֵף כְּפוּפִים, "hashem zokeif k'fufim"

Matthew 5:5,

μακάριοι οἱ πραεῖς, ὅτι αὐτοὶ κληρονομήσουσιν τὴν γῆν

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.


κληρονομέω = to receive a lot, receive by lot

κλῆρος= 1) an object used in casting or drawing lots, which was either a pebble, or a potsherd, or a bit of wood 2) what is obtained by lot, allotted portion

= Hebrew "goral" = grail (?)

[sylvius]

= Hebrew "goral" = grail (?)

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=h1486
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q262/suivlys/goral.jpg (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/suivlys/media/goral.jpg.html)

interesting interpretation of Daniel 12:13!

And you, go to the end, and you will rest and rise to your lot at the end of the days.

Rashi:
to your lot: to receive your portion with the righteous.

לְגֹרָלְךָ

"goral" - gematria 233, like of "etz hachayim"= tree of life.

[sylvius]

the Nazi's were very much in search for the holy grail, i.e. the stone fallen from Lucifer's crown:

https://www.google.nl/search?q=himmler+gral&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=m4INWaaSAY3c8AfimrnYBw#q=himmler+grail

From "Luzifers Hofgesind" by Otto Rahn;

https://archive.org/stream/RahnOttoLuzifersHofgesind2006/Rahn%20Otto_Luzifers%20Hofgesind_2006#page/n29/mode/2up/search/krone

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q262/suivlys/Luzifers%20Krone.jpg (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/suivlys/media/Luzifers%20Krone.jpg.html)


http://philipcoppens.com/wewelsburg.html


The Wewelsburg: the Nazi Grail Castle

It is said that the Wewelsburg was going to be the ?Grail Castle? of the Nazi regime, once it had established itself as rulers of the world. Is this true, and, if so, what was their ambition in this vast building project?

It is clear that any Grail Castle to be built would have a geometrical design, and in the case of the Wewelsburg, that is a triangle. For Himmler, the Wewelsburg was not so much the location where the Grail was hidden, but where his Grail Order ? the SS, the Schutzstaffel ? and its sacred treasures ? rumoured to be the Spear of Destiny ? would be brought, and from which the magical power of the Nazi regime would radiate out.
The castle was not built by the Nazi regime; its history started several centuries before the National Socialists came to power in 1933

It is very near to where I do live

https://www.anwb.nl/verkeer/routeplanner?area2=EU&lat1=52.2199823&lat2=51.605431&lon1=6.8963064&lon2=8.654149&name1=Enschede&name2=Wewelsburg%2C%20Noord-Rijnland-Westfalen%2C%20Duitsland&transportMode1=car


Reistijd 1 uur, 53 min

[sylvius]

Italies's dictionary suggests a relationship between "goral" and "regel", foot

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q262/suivlys/IMG_9739.jpg (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/suivlys/media/IMG_9739.jpg.html)

[Unregistered]

[QUOTE=Richard Amiel McGough;31331]The name "Lucifer" is not found in the Septuagint. It came from the Latin Vulgate:

Isaiah 14:12 quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes
The word "lucifer" is the Latin name of the planet Venus, aka the "morning star" known either as Eosophorus (bringer of the dawn) or Phosphoros (bringer of the light) in Greek. We find the word lucifer again as a title of Christ in the Latin Vulgate:

VUL 2 Peter 1:19 et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris
This verse tells us to wait until LUCIFER rises in our hearts!

We have discussed these precise verses with a Jewish friend of mine in the past and it certainly doesn't make sense that the satan would be an exact homonym of The Messiah.
There is a problem with translation for sure, as the Italian saying goes: "traduttore, traditore" (translator, traitor) or even more clearly stated in Hungarian "forditas, fedites" (translation, distortion). However, the discussion was centered in the fact that Scripture is full of puns, and in the end times, The Messiah and the anti-messiah will be very similar (like the two quasi-identical goats of Yom Kippur), so much that many will be deceived and will choose the worker of evil, just as when Yeshua Bar Abba and Yeshua bar abbas were put in fron of the people, they were "similar", the innocent one was supposed to be sacrificed for the whole congregation of Israel, and the one full of sin, was sent away. So that could be an explanation of why the nominatives (I wouldn't say names either) are so similar for both.

Anyhow, it is necessary to take into account what is said about the satan in other places so it can be understood what is the nature of such a being.
This is a short excerpt of what my friend wrote in her book The Gate of Heaven and her interpretation of how the verse reads directly from the Hebrew.
Keep in mind that Hebrew has root words of three letters so שחר and שחור are related in meaning and form.

Here it is:

The enemy, satan is one of the Cherubim, he knows the location of the Mountain of YHVH! satan is not only a fallen angel but a fallen Cherub.
satan was one of the cherubim in God?s Holy Mount and seeks to possess the Holy Mountain, and being there he will declare himself ''god''.


Ezekiel 28:14:
You were an anointed CHERUB THAT COVERS, and I HAVE PLACED YOU IN THE HOLY MOUNTAIN OF GOD;
in the midst of the stones of fire you walked.
Ezekiel 28:16: ?therefore I will cast you as a profane thing OUT OF THE MOUNTAIN OF GOD: and I will destroy you,
O COVERING CHERUB, from the midst of the stones of fire.

satan was on God?s Holy Mountain and God cast him out (Isa 14:12, Rev12:9, Luke 10:18, Ezk 28:16, Gen 3:14), since then,
satan has been trying to possess the Holy Mountain.

Ezekiel 28:18: ?You have defiled your sanctuaries?
From the beginning satan, the fallen cherub, said: I will put my throne on God?s APPOINTED MOUNT!

Isaiah 14:12-13:
How you are fallen from heaven, Hillel Ben Shachar! (The praiser son of dawn/darkness ? הילל בן שחר)
How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! You said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God, I WILL SET MY THRONE ON HIGH; I WILL SIT ON THE APPOINTED MOUNT? ְ
(ואַָתּה אַָמְרָתּ ִבְֽלָבְבךָ ַהָשַּׁמיִם ֶאֱעֶלה ִמַמַּעל ְלכוְֹכֵבי־ֵאל אִָרים ִכְּסִאי ְוֵאֵשׁב ְבַּהר־מוֵֹעד ְּביְַרְכֵּתי ָצפוֹן׃ )
I WILL SIT ON THE APPOINTED MOUNT! in Hebrew it says: I will sit on ?Har Moed?, ?The Appointed Mount?.

That is just an excerpt but it is important to highlight that the verse says nothing about a "morning star" (כוכב הבוקר), the satan is referred to as The praiser son of dawn/darkness ? הילל בן שחר)

OK, sorry for the long reply.
I hope it is of some use.
-C.