New Covenant vs. Old Covenant

[throwback]

Are people living today party to ANY Biblical covenant? If so, which? A question that needs answering is this: Whom did Jesus specifically make a covenant with and are we a part of that number? What are you guy's thoughts?

[Didymus]

Are people living today party to ANY Biblical covenant? If so, which? A question that needs answering is this: Whom did Jesus specifically make a covenant with and are we a part of that number? What are you guy's thoughts?

That is an excellent question. So I did a quick cursory study.

It seems to me that God made a covenant with the people of Israel. That covenant came to an end at the cross.

Hebrews spends many words on the subject of the two covenants. But, it doesn't spell out who made a covenant with whom, not that I can see. There is one thing that is certain. Christ did all on our behalf. Therefore, it is my belief that it is Christ that made a covenant with His Father, and He did so on our behalf, that is, people who believe in Christ. So we are party to that covenant through faith in Christ.

Those are my thoughts at this time for what they're worth.

:ranger:

[duxrow]

Many Covenants, like the Covenant Rainbow, Covenant of Salt, and Covenant between David and Jonathan, but Jer31:31 refers to the Old and New that I believe to be the "two covenants referred to in Galatians 4:24. Gal 3:24 speaks of the Old as being a "schoolmaster" to bring us to Christ, and 2Cor3:6 refers to the Old as a ministry of death.
Hope this helps, Didymus (bro of Thomas?) - Blessings!

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

Are people living today party to ANY Biblical covenant? If so, which? A question that needs answering is this: Whom did Jesus specifically make a covenant with and are we a part of that number? What are you guy's thoughts?

Agreed that there are several 'covenants' in effect such as the promise to not destroy the earth by flood again... and the covenant of perpetual life and 'children of God' on the earth.

The old covenant is the mosaic conditional, corporal way of seeking blessing through maintaining rituals and laws that was offered to the nation as basically outlined in the book of Deuteronomy.

The 'new" covenant is called "new" because it was prophesied to the people of the mosaic covenant it's principles would contrast against the inferior conditional/corporal ritual principles of the mosaic covenant . But the 'new' is also the 'everlasting covenant of mercy' promised from eden LONG before the Mosaic covenant to cancel the effects of the doubt, uncertainty, lies and disbelief WITHIN and from the conditional scenario of the original Garden relationship with God.

This promise of a seed of the woman was passed through Noah and Abraham as "my covenant".
Abraham was then given additional prophecies and signs accompanying them about how the everlasting and individual covenant was going to be fulfilled. It included a foretelling of a blessing to the latter son [of all peoples] over the former son [the mosaic covenant national law] as Paul mentions in Gal 4 and Rom 9.

The spiritual seed of those justified by faith in God and his 'my covenant' of love and mercy was also carried through and exemplified by Abraham and established as Law under Ps 105 and reiterated in Romans 9.

It's this covenant from Eden [the Creator] which Christ embodies and fulfills as incarnate God in Spirit and thereby makes and establishes a New Garden, New Heavens, new earth, new ‘creation’ new Jerusalem etc in contrast against both the original garden conditional scenario and law [Rom 8:2] and against mosaic covenant ordinances [Rom 10:1-4].

Hbr 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.
Hbr 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

This promise of the seed given to Eve; the 'new' covenant and 'covenant of mercy and love' are also "The" covenant of Dan 9:27 which the Messiah confirms and establishes in living History from the time of his baptism and confirming himself as Messiah, through his teaching and giving the new law of Love; through the events of the suffering, the cross and resurrection and through 3 1/2 yrs of the indwelling Spirits witness within the apostles in Jerusalem. As Paul says somewhere; all the promises are yea through faith.

Those who believe in and call upon the creator of life and in his goodness and Love, and receive Jesus by reasoned faith as God having come in flesh, in Love and in the Spirit of God are partakers of the covenant promise of restoration and atonement from Eden and are restored and sealed to an unbreakable adoption as children of the living God. They are given an internal witness and 'knowledge' of God and a sealing of the Spirit to help carry them through doubts and lies about his love, his ways and his will.

[Bob May]

Are people living today party to ANY Biblical covenant? If so, which? A question that needs answering is this: Whom did Jesus specifically make a covenant with and are we a part of that number? What are you guy's thoughts?

Hi Throwback,
Good synopsis of the two covenants, Duet.,

Ro 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Ro 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Ro 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

This question was really on my mind years ago. how do I know if I am one of these who are called, saved, sancctified etc., when many in my church were telling me I was not.
For me the bottom line is do I have the Spirit?

Ro 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Ro 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

2co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
2co 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

So, God gives us a pledge, a "Token" of the promise or "earnest" as in "earnest money" in a contract (Covenant) when buying a home.
So if we know we have the Spirit, we know we are a part of this New Covenant.
This pledge, (or at least one aspect of it) is the ability to "hear" His word. The things of God are Spiritually discerned. We cannot hear or comprehend them without His Spirit.
So if we hear, we have the Spirit. If we have the Spirit we are in the New Covenant.

This is Isaac through whom the promise and Covenant is. Isaac is Hearing.

Ge 21:4 And Abraham circumcised his son Isaac being eight days old, as God had commanded him.
Ge 21:5 And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him.
Ge 21:6 And Sarah said, God hath made me to laugh, so that all that hear will laugh with me.

After you begin to "hear" God's word you begin to realize that you are in the New Covenant and an heir to the promises and no one can talk you out of it.
Should we believe God or men?

Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

To those who are under the law, those who are under grace are a mystery.
That is because the difference is Spiritually discerned.
To those who are under grace, those who are under the law are an open book. That is because we have been there and know how that person thinks.

There is no judgement in that because the gift that we were given can be given to them at any moment. sometimes just a word can change everything.
Also a person may be born from above and has not yet this understanding or has fallen from grace (temporarily) as the Galatians did.

Bob

[throwback]

Are people living today party to ANY Biblical covenant? If so, which? A question that needs answering is this: Whom did Jesus specifically make a covenant with and are we a part of that number? What are you guy's thoughts?

I asked the above questions because as i study more and more and try to step outside of religion in order to look at it properly, it seems that religion confuses a promises with a covenant. A covenant is a TWO party agreement whereas a promise needs only one party and no terms of agreement are necessary where a promise is involved.
I at this point cannot honestly say that any of us living post 1st century as a part of any covenant. It seems more likely that we are awaiting the fulfillment of precious promises.

[Bob May]

I asked the above questions because as i study more and more and try to step outside of religion in order to look at it properly, it seems that religion confuses a promises with a covenant. A covenant is a TWO party agreement whereas a promise needs only one party and no terms of agreement are necessary where a promise is involved.
I at this point cannot honestly say that any of us living post 1st century as a part of any covenant. It seems more likely that we are awaiting the fulfillment of precious promises.

The first covenant had God and Adam (mankind) as the two parties. Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:


Ro 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Ro 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Ro 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Ro 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

The second covenant had God and Jesus, the second Adam, (representing mankind) a the two parties.It is my opinion that all of mankind are under either one covenant or the other.

Ro 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
I don't know what you mean by religion. There is nothing religious about it as far as I am concerned. Just God coming down to mankind telling us what is what. What reality we are and have always been caught up in.

We (Adam) blew the first covenant, not being obedient.
Jesus, as our representative fulfilled the second by dying. He paid the price.
We were left out of the second as far as obedience goes,..we would have blown it again.
We are beneficiaries (fellow heirs) of the second covenant but Jesus fulfilled it.
We enter it through Faith or belief which is a gift. We are not capable of even this. We are only capable of resisting or rejecting it.

I believe the promises are part of the inheritance and the more I read the bible the more of it appears to be promises.

"Follow me", for instance, looks more like a promise to me lately. It is like "let there be light." I don't think the disciples really had a choice in the matter and later, looking back, they would have realized that they were following him without even knowing it.

That is kind of like the two covenants. We can be in the second and not know it. As our eyes and ears continue to open, we eventually become aware of this truth if it is the truth.
The two covenants are mutually exclusive but the two are all inclusive as far as the condition of mankind goes.
We are either under the law or under Grace.

To me religion is man making something up and then trying to follow that (his or her ideas) to an awareness of God. That is the tower of Babel. A tower that is made with hands that reaches to heaven.

Christianity is God coming down to mankind telling us what IS what and then us believing it. That is Jacobs ladder, which is Christ. ("Behold, a ladder set up.." = 888 = The name Jesus in Greek)

Our outlook changes from that of Jacob (seeking after God) to Israel (Favor or Grace from God)
It is all a gift.

[duxrow]

Not just Hagar/Sarah (Gal 4:24) are representing the Old and New Covenants, but also Esau/Jacob, Zarah/Pharez, and Rachel/Leah fit the pattern IMO.. they each have some wiggleroom, but the Old Covenant for the Jew under the Law is contrasted to the New Covenant for the Gentile by grace or faith.

Elijah -- Elisha - (1Kings17 to 2Kings13)

Elijah and then Elisha were two prophets chosen by God,
They followed one after the other, but not like two peas in a pod.
The differences between them were substantial; they weren’t alike at all,
Except in their duty to God, and in the way they obeyed his call.

ELIJAH would call down fire! — Be careful what you say or do,
‘Cause he would prove that God is real, and make it hot for you.
ELIJAH takes it on himself to see that things get done,
He does it in the Name of God — they didn’t yet know of the Son.

But he’s always very hungry and gets fed miraculously,
by the ravens and the widow, and the angels by the Juniper tree.
The Word of God hadn’t yet been born when ELIJAH walked the earth,
and his hunger would not be abated until the spiritual bread came forth.
So when his job was over and his replacment was on board,
He threw his mantle to Elisha and into the heavens he soared.

‘If you see me taken up’, ELIJAH told Elisha,
then the double-portion, that you’ve asked, is granted...
Sure enough he got his wish, ‘cause he saw ELIJAH go,
and he received the thing for which his heart had panted.

Now ELISHA was completely different — he didn’t use fire at all,
It was WATER that he specialized in, and he had a servant at his beck and call.
He had no trouble with food; he healed it and caused it to grow,
His double-portion of the Holy Spirit cured all manner of woe.
The power of the Spirit in ELISHA went deep into his bones,
When a dead man accidentally touched them, he raised right up and ran home!

Elijah was like John the Baptist, whose ministry introduced Christ,
and Elisha was a type of Jesus, who brings us the Living Water of Life.
Together they’re yoked to the chariot of God: they’re two birds of a feather,
It’s the Old Testament and the New Testament, spiritually harnessed together.
There’s more to this story than can be told in verse, and more than meets the eye,
If you ever expect to contend with the horses, don’t look for pie in the sky.
The Chariot of Fire that came for Elijah, is the spiritual vessel of GOD,
To bring us the secrets of Scripture, and show how our feet should be shod.

..from the Poetry Book "Ducks In A Row" by Bob Smith of Foreman

..