Ten Lost Tribes

[Beck]

The twelve original tribes of Israel were:

Reuben
Simeon
Levi
Judah
Issachar
Zebulun
Dan
Naphtali
Gad
Asher
Joseph
Benjamin
Ephraim
Manasseh

But on the account that Joseph's territorial inheritance was split between his two sons (Ephraim and Manasseh), the total count is technically thirteen; I will be using this number, so please don't get confused.

The story in Scripture is this:

When the Kingdom of Israel split during the reign of Rehoboam (Solomon's son), God promised to give to Jeroboam "ten tribes" for his portion [1 Kings 11.31,35], which became the Northern Kingdom of Israel (as opposed to the Southern Kingdom of Judah). Though these "ten tribes" are never explicitly named in this context, a counting of Reuben, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Ephraim, and Manasseh is usually accepted for nine of them, with either Levi (which did not have its own territory, but was given cities within the other tribes' territories) or Simeon counted for the tenth. Thus, when Assyria came against the Northern Kingdom, and exiled the people, they fell into history as the "ten lost tribes" of Israel.

Later, Babylon came upon the Southern Kingdom, and a great deal of its peoples (counted from the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi) were exiled as well. Nearly all Jews and Christians accept that these people traced from the Southern Kingdom of Judah (the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi) returned, while the other tribes, from the Northern Kingdom of Israel (Reuben, Simeon, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, and Ephraim and Manasseh) have disappeared into history.

But can these "ten lost tribes" really be considered lost, Scripturally or historically? This view requires assuming that absolutely no one from any of the twelve tribes married to another person from another of the twelve tribes, and that no one from one tribe's region moved to another tribe's region. This is proven untrue in Scripture, where we see for a fact that at least a small number of Ephraim and Manasseh lived in Judah [1 Chronicles 9.3], and the tribe of Simeon was given land in the south, within the region that became the kingdom of Judah [Joshua 19.1]. This means that even if every person of the tribes in the Northern Kingdom of Israel was exiled and subsequently lost their tribal identity, there were still six of the tribes (Judah, Benjamin, Levi, Ephraim, Manasseh, and Simeon) accounted for in Judah, which means that, up to this point, only seven tribes (Reuben, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun) could be considered "lost" (still under the assumption that every single person from those tribes was taken into exile and dispersed). But there is still more to consider.


1 Chronicles 5.26: So the God of Israel stirred up the spirit of Pul king of Assyria, the spirit of Tiglath-pileser king of Assyria, and he took them into exile, namely, the Reubenites, the Gadites, and the half-tribe of Manasseh, and brought them to Halah, Habor, Hara, and the river Gozan, to this day.


Luke 2.36: And there was a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher.

The book of Chronicles (1 and 2) were written during the same time that the book of Ezra was written, which was after the Babylonian Exile. Yet, the author of Chronicles clearly knows the location of the tribes of Reuben, Gad, and Manasseh (already accounted for), and it is not in the least bit unreasonable to presume that at least some of the people from those tribes moved back from those regions ("Halah, Habor, Hara, and the river Gozan") to their ancestor's lands (whether it be back in the North, or with the other tribes in the South). Likewise, by the time of Christ, centuries after both the Babylonian Exile and the Assyrian Exile, there were still people known from the tribe of Asher. This turns the entire situation around. Up to this point:


6 tribes known to comprise the Southern Kingdom of Judah

Judah
Benjamin
Levi
Ephraim
Manasseh
Simeon



2 other tribes' known in the time of return from exile
Reuben
Gad



1 other tribe known during the time of Christ
Asher


This leaves only four tribes yet unaccounted for: Dan, Naphtali, Issachar, and Zebulun.

The point to made is this: Just because "ten tribes" comprised the citizenry of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, does not mean that the entirety of every one of those "ten tribes" was lost in the exile, or even that any of the tribes was even "lost". Ezra's accountance in his book, and Peter's proclamation at Pentecost may be used to argue that, indeed, all of Israel (every tribe) was accounted for by the time end of the Babylonian Exile and even up to the time of Christ.

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

I agree.

From questions 2 & 3 of the 20 questions showing that the end time of Daniels visions were the 'end times' and 'latter end as described by Moses in Duet 30-32 and fulfilled in 30-70 AD.

2. Was it prophesied in Deut 30:1-5 that after experiencing the blessings 'and' the curse of the law of Deut 28:15ff and after confessing the 'curse of the law' that all Israel would return to the land? Is there evidence that Daniels prayer of chapter 9 and/or Neh and Ezra fulfilled the requirements of this confession? What evidence? Answer; the evidence of the decree from Cyrus and/or others and the return to the land.

3. Some teachers of the dispensational/futurist view say that ‘all Israel’ did not return to the land and that only Judah was represented in Israel at the time of Christ. Is there any reason to not consider these following to refer to the same ‘all Israel’ that was to return to the land? Ezra 2:70; 6:17; 8:25, 8:35; 10:5; Neh 7:73, 12:47.

This fulfillment of the return is further confirmed by Pauls quote of Deut 30:10ff in Rom 10:5ff. Duet 30:10 ff was to occur after the prophesied return to the land, accomplished through Daniel and the other prophets confession to satisfy Deut 30:1-4. The angel came to instruct Daniel of another 483 yrs between the return to the land of Deut 30:1-4 and the coming Messiah/circumcison and indwelling of the heart of Deut 30:5 ff.

Note also that some of the northern tribes were intermarried with other nationalities and present in the land as Samaritans, such as the woman at the well and others. And you noted the prophetess Anna from Lukes account.

For the purposes of the bringing 'all Israel' back to the land in preparation for the Messiah, the New Prophet, the seed of Eve, the new covenant, etc.. and the latter end of, and judgment upon the mosaic covenant conditional corporal ways as described in the book of Duet and especially Deut 32 and elsewhere, there are no LOST 10 tribes.

The end and 'latter end' were accomplished and the geneological records destroyed.

British Israelism and other similar doctrines are another form of judaism of the mosaic covenant I believe. They go hand in hand with dispensational doctrines.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hey there Beck,

Good post. I agree with your conclusion that many members of the ten northern tribes were certainly living amongst the "Jews" of the southern kingdom. While writing the synopsis of Spoke 14 (http://biblewheel.com/Wheel/Spokes/Nun_2Chronicles.asp) for the Bible Wheel book I noticed that Scripture specifically states the Levites fled the apostate northern tribes after Jeroboam set up idolatrous system of worship:
2 Chronicles 11:14 For the Levites left their suburbs and their possession, and came to Judah and Jerusalem: for Jeroboam and his sons had cast them off from executing the priest's office unto the LORD: And he ordained him priests for the high places, and for the devils, and for the calves which he had made.
The whole idea of "tribal" association doesn't really have much meaning when everyone was living together in the same location. The "tribe" you would belong to was really just the "tribe" to which you could trace your narrow little father's line, ignoring all other ancestors. For example, the number of ancestors doubles each generation, so if you are the tenth generation you have 1024 ancestors. Only ten of those 1024 ancestors are in the line that defines the "tribe" you are from. Everyone else could be from a different tribe! And since the tribes were no longer living isolated from each other, they were all just mixed together, especially after the Babylonian exile. The whole idea lost all it's meaning. That's why the strange fascination folks have with the "lost ten tribes" has always seemed so silly to me. The tribes just blended together to become the "Jews." Folks might still have some knowledge of their lineage, but most of that info was lost when the temple was destroyed. The NT has almost nothing to say about them except when using them as a symbol of "God's People."

[CWH]

Just trying to understand ancient Jewish traditions. If a man from the tribe of say Judah married a woman from the tribe of Reuben, does this mean the woman now becomes a member of the tribe of Judah and so are their children? What if the man from the tribe of Judah married a Gentile woman, does this mean the Gentile woman now becomes a member of the tribe of Judah and so are their children?

The reason why I asked this is that if that is the case then it doesn't matter who the man from the tribe of Israel marries or intermarries as after all the women that they married will automatically become a member of the tribe of Israel that the husband belongs to and so are their offsprings.

What if the women divorced form her husband, does she remained as the tribe that her former husband belongs to or does she revert back to her original tribe of Israel? And how about their offsprings?

Many Blessings.

[NumberX]

This book (http://www.britam.org/Identity.html) about the subject with a lot of info about the present day flags and weapons (lion and unicorn) and names of cities (Paris - Perez, Hibrides islands) I have bought, and not as a pdf-file. This is a list of books (http://www.britam.org/books.html) on the subject.

This is only one layer, to find the matching countries. I have written about British before, it's easy to understand, here (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showpost.php?p=24573&postcount=12). The Netherlands, where I live, is definately connected to Zebulun, also because of the harbour. And then you have Danish, from Dan, Denmark, the mark of Dan. And Issachar, who keeps up with the tiime, is like Switserland, famous because of the watches that are fabricated here, and Switserland is neutral in conflicts. And a lot more can be connected to the layer of European countries.

When you want to connect a tribe to an individual person who walks around somewhere, saying you are from that tribe, that is not possible, then you fail. Even with orthodox Jews it is possible that they are no Jehudim - those from Jehudah - because one can convert to the religion by doing a ritual with water and learning texts. However everyone is free to join what he/she likes of course, or to step out of a religion.

Another layer is to translate the hebrew words of the tribes in what it spiritually means so that you can put it that way in your mind.

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

This book (http://www.britam.org/Identity.html) about the subject with a lot of info about the present day flags and weapons (lion and unicorn) and names of cities (Paris - Perez, Hibrides islands) I have bought, and not as a pdf-file. This is a list of books (http://www.britam.org/books.html) on the subject.

This is only one layer, to find the matching countries. I have written about British before, it's easy to understand, here (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showpost.php?p=24573&postcount=12). The Netherlands, where I live, is definately connected to Zebulun. And then you have Danish, from Dan, Denmark, the mark of Dan.

Another layer is to translate the hebrew words of the tribes in what it spiritually means so that you can put it that way in your mind.

Howdy X,

I find it intersting that there is evidence of migration and intermarriage of the dispersed people of Israel within Europe either from the babylonian dispersion, and-or the Roman dispersion at the 'latter end' as prophesied in Deut 32 and fulfilled in 30-70 AD. The evidence supports the fact of the leaving of the tribes of Israel and the dispersion through the babylonian captivity.

But if the blessing and the Kingdom of God is to the spriitual seed of those justified and adopted as Sons by faith in Christ as son of the Living God AND is applicable to ALL peoples under ADAM; is there any reason whatsoever to trace genetics?

Are the Indians, the Africans, the South Americans and the Eastern Oriental who are drawn to faith in their Maker through the testimony of Creation and the soul/spirit of man and/or the testimony of the incarnate Son on the same footing as any of the temporal shadow covenant made with those taken by the hand and led out of Egypt? Or did the world begin with the mosaic covenant and the tribes of Israel as the scoffers of 2 Peter 3 claimed?

Was Abraham an Israelite under the corporal mosaic covenant or an individual Syrian out of Ur and thus spiritually out of Eden? See Deut 5:1-5 and Hebrews 11:8-16. What did he find? That he was justified and blessed under law or under faith? Did he war and create dominion over others?

For example; the symbolism of the blessing of the second son; Isaac, Jacob and Ephraim was that the people of the second [new] covenant [including indivisuals from, but not exclusive to the tribes of the mosaic covenant] of all nations, of the everlasting covenant of Peace would be 'greater' and favored than the people of the first. The fulfillment of the 'new' covenant is the end of the first, and is the fulfillment of the promise to Abraham AND the fulfillment of the seed promised to EVE to counter the spiritual effects of the spiritual death from Father God incurred in the Garden fellowship.

What do you think of the questions in post # 2?

Interesting books and an interesting addresses none the less.


Abraham the first Hebrew was a wandering prince whose descendants went down into Egypt where they became identified with the "Hycsos" shepherd-kings. After being enslaved they were freed from Egypt and journeyed to Canaan which they conquered gaining dominance over most of the Middle East.

[NumberX]

Yeah I understand it raises many questions of how exactly it became as it is, concerning the countries I mean. I think you have to address it to the writer of the books I referred to. The evidence is clearly visible, but how did it become this way? I compare it with the evidence of the supernatural structures in the Bible, they are clearly visible, but how did it become this way?

For an answer they start to dive into the water. That means, they try to answer by searching in the flowing time. But an ocean is so deep.. Also our own ancestors are already forgotten from let's say five generations ago, lost in time.

I like to add a recent post from me of the world famous Big Ben, the one who is famous in the world, meaning Big Son, here (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29665&postcount=2), located in the capital of the Big Empire that was so big that the Sun always shined in a part of it. Maybe at that time they started to evangelize to the world, I don't know.

And more about the translation of the names of the tribes and the meaning of the word Israel, for research on this level, can be found here (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2054&highlight=Israel+means).

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

Yeah I understand it raises many questions of how exactly it became as it is, concerning the countries I mean. I think you have to address it to the writer of the books I referred to. The evidence is clearly visible, but how did it become this way? I compare it with the evidence of the supernatural structures in the Bible, they are clearly visible, but how did it become this way?

For an answer they start to dive into the water. That means, they try to answer by searching in the flowing time. But an ocean is so deep.. Also our own ancestors are already forgotten from let's say five generations ago, lost in time.

I like to add a recent post from me of the world famous Big Ben, the one who is famous in the world, meaning Big Son, here (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29665&postcount=2), located in the capital of the Big Empire that was so big that the Sun always shined in a part of it. Maybe at that time they started to evangelize to the world, I don't know.

And more about the translation of the names of the tribes and the meaning of the word Israel, for research on this level, can be found here (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2054&highlight=Israel+means).
I guess I didn't see an attempted response to the question in post number 2. ?

I don't personally believe or interpret any part of the bible to mean that Israelites of the tribes of the Babylonian dispersion are the possessors and evangelizer's of the kingdom. That was given to the apostles, and to those reborn and indwelt in the Spirit of His son. The apostles though being Jews, recognized that the kingdom was being poured out to all peoples and nations under Adam who would come to faith in their creator through His son Jesus.

Edit: I have never looked at the magnificence of Big Ben and the numerous crosses on it. thus, this is obviously a post Christ tribute, un-related to any so-called lost 10 tribes.

After reviewing a few of the books at the britam site such as the Ephraim book; I see little more than a Zionist ploy and an attempted inclusion into and worship of Israel.

I like your Avatar by the way... from a preterists perspective.

[NumberX]

Well I am the one here who is able to find them on the globe, because I read the books about it, they describe clear aspects of nowadays European countries and the USA compared with biblical text, so that I can understand that they represent the lost tribes.

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

Well I am the one here who is able to find them on the globe, because I read the books about it, they describe clear aspects of nowadays European countries and the USA compared with biblical text, so that I can understand that they represent the lost tribes.

Thanks for the reply; I understand your perspective.
Could you attempt to answer the 2 questions posted in the 2nd post?


2a.Was it prophesied in Deut 30:1-5 that after experiencing the blessings 'and' the curse of the law of Deut 28:15ff and after confessing the 'curse of the law' that all Israel would return to the land?

b.Is there evidence that Daniels prayer of chapter 9 and/or Neh and Ezra fulfilled the requirements of this confession? Answer; Yes, the evidence is the decree from Cyrus and other kings and the subsequent return to the land.

3a. Some teachers of the dispensational/futurist view say that ‘all Israel’ did not return to the land and that only Judah was represented in Israel at the time of Christ. Is there any reason to not consider these following to refer to the same ‘all Israel’ that was to return to the land as quoted in Duet 30:1-4 in preparation for the change of heart and latter end of the mosaic covenant? Ezra 2:70; 6:17; 8:25, 8:35; 10:5; Neh 7:73, 12:47.

3b. Does Paul quote from Deut 30:10-14ff in Rom 10:5ff?

Duet 30:10 ff was to occur after the prophesied return to the land. After Daniel confessed the curse of the law as prescribed in Duet 30:1-4, The angel came to instruct Daniel of another 483 yrs between the return to the land, and the coming Messiah/circumcision and indwelling of the heart of Deut 30:5-14. We know that Messiah presented himself as Messiah at or shortly after his baptism thus beginning the 70th week.

Note also that some of the northern tribes were intermarried with other nationalities and present in the land as Samaritans, such as the woman at the well. And you noted the prophetess Anna from Lukes account.

Thank you.

[NumberX]

I am sorry ETD32/70AD but I have a lack of interest to research and respond to your two questions.

[kathryn]

This book by Dr. Stephen Jones comes to some interesting conclusions:
http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/books/birthright/index.cfm

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

I am sorry ETD32/70AD but I have a lack of interest to research and respond to your two questions.
No need to be sorry. Thanks for being candid. I think it may be due to the answers they generate and the ramifications of those answers.

Likewise, although I understand the perspective of the so called "lost 10 tribes" through the dispersion of the northern kingdom and the implications they attempt to generate; I find little purpose in that research for its intent other than for a study of anthropologic, historical migratory and to confirm the biblical accounts of the Babylonian [and Roman] dispersions.

Jesus said that God could make 'sons of Abraham' out of the stones indicating that genetic descendancy was of no [further] value. The purpose of the genetic lineage was to prove and bring forth Messiah as the confirmed seed of Eve through the genetic descendancy of Abraham/Sara and Virgin Mary; not through Nimrods counterfeit, rebellious humanist and disbelieving claims.

How much more could be said of being 'genetically connected' to some of the 'lost 10 tribes" while being individually spiritually separate from His Son?

We recall from Isaiah 66 that various peoples of Tarshish, Tubal and other peoples under Noah were to come to see the destruction in Judea.


They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

For I [know] their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape [this is the Roman desolation] of them unto the nations, [to] Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, [to] Tubal, and Javan, [to] the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.

And they shall bring all your brethren [for] an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

-----------

And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

This book by Dr. Stephen Jones comes to some interesting conclusions:
http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/books/birthright/index.cfm


Edit:
Kathryn, when I read your post, I read it to say that this book by Stephen Jones comes to the SAME conclusions. I wrote this response in a tone of disagreeing with those 'same' conclusions. My bad.



From a quick overview; it seems that Jones emphasizes a physical birthright in chapter 1 as he discusses the blessing given to Jacob rather than Esau. I don't know if he actually supports that perspective or is stating it as a perspective which has generated some of the foundations of the present era.

Doesn't Paul say in Gal 4 that the blessing of the younger over the elder were given as an object lesson of God's blessing to the latter people [of all nations, tongues, languages] of the Covenant of Grace through faith; not of the mosaic conditional national covenant of law? He says that they are two covenants. One of Sinai referring to the law of Moses. The Greater shall serve the lesser [later]. Jesus said the 'first shall be last and the last shall be first". And then the question is if this was fulfilled in the coming of the 'new covenant' in the heart while the old [first] was then destroyed.

Was Jacob an Israelite of the mosaic covenant began when God led his descendants out of the land of Egypt? Deut 5:1-3 says no.

Deut 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, [even] us, who [are] all of us here alive this day.
Jacob along with Isaac and Abraham were wandering Syrians out of Ur, representing out of Eden. Heb 11 implies that if Abraham would have [spiritually] looked for the land from whence he came; he would have found it. [The new Garden of the heart] He would have realized that the seed promised to Him and Sara was the eventual seed promised to Eve [virgin Mary] in Gen 3:15.

In the last chapter, he assigns 1948 to a fulfillment of a mandate to Esau; but as noted by Paul, the purposes of blessing to the latter son represented the Mosaic covenant and the Eternal individual covenant made in the heart. Descendants of Esau were made into nations, but are blessed also through inclusion of all peoples into faith in Creator God having come to earth to restore individual fellowship and adoption as sons/daughter through Christ.

I glanced through some of the other chapters. He does a good bit of research for chapter 10, and he is not pro-zionist as I would have expected.

But I personally believe his failure to ascribe prophecies to their fulfillment's in the first century actually fuel the present situations to continue rather than declaring these things to be fulfilled.

He says:

Jerusalem has been destroyed a number of times, particularly in 586 B.C. by the Babylonians and again in 70 A.D. by the Romans. But each time the city was repaired. The day is coming when Jeremiah's prophecy will be fulfilled-the city and its people will be broken like the jar that Jeremiah smashed. It will be broken so badly that it "cannot again be repaired."

The Scriptures are soon to be fulfilled. The destruction of the Jewish state will cause great anxiety and horror, not only among Jews, but also among Christians. Christians have been ill prepared for what is coming, because they have been told that God will destroy the Russian armies with their allies. But because Bible prophecy is going to be fulfilled in a different way from what they expect, they will be at a loss to explain this event.

Jerusalem of the intent of the blessing of the mosaic covenant has not been repaired since the Babylonian conquest when the ark of the covenant was removed.

Moses told the people and the levites that they had to do ALL they were commanded to maintain the blessing of the covenant and the continuation of the nation. But how could that be accomplished without the ARk upon which they were to sprinkle blood? From babylon onward, they were just going through the motions with an empty ark room in preparation for the 'new covenant', the Messiah, and the latter end of the old.

And after the sacrifice of the eternal, internal covenant of Peace, the pattern rituals and sacrifices have had no further purpose. Even though the city has been rebuilt, the nation, the religion, and the city will not house the Spirit of God and can never be repaired for those purposes. This is the meaning of the "NEW JERUSALEM"; the everlasting city, generation to generation in the heart.

The part about the 10 lost tribes is in chapter 15.


These are the true Israelites, according to plain history. These people were never known as Jews, and in fact God caused them to lose their name " Israel " also, for only in this way could they be the "lost sheep" of the house of Israel (Ezekiel 34).

But doesn't Jesus tell the one woman that he is sent [in that present time] to the lost sheep of the house of Israel?

EZ 34:25 refers to a covenant of Peace. The covenant of Peace was made with any who received [receive] his Shepherding and leadership of 'Prince David' who invited gentiles to worship together in his [david's] tabernacle.

I see EZ 34 as a contrast and time of transition between the shepherds of the old covenant [Levites] and the making and shepherding of the 'new' covenant, everlasting and of Peace with God....individually received.

That's my perspective.
Good to be chatting as Richard says.