Are We Kept from Temptation?

[whirlwind]

In the last days, and we are in those days....you will see a battle being waged. A battle of wills, of doctrines, of truth versus deception. As we near the days of the great tribulation, the last five months of this age then you will see tremendous deception. Be prepared. We are kept from the deception, the temptation of Satan, by knowing the Word of the Lord AND by "doing it."



Ezekiel 37:24 And David My servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have One Shepherd: they shall also walk in My judgments, and observe My statutes, and do them.

Many read His Word yet don't see and hear what is written. They profess to know Him but their actions show...they don't. They don't "do them."


Those that keep His Word and do them are those that dwell in heaven, while they walk on the earth. They have been translated into His kingdom and He dwells in them. It must be seen spiritually. They are kept from Satan and his great deception but...not those that still "dwell upon the earth." They are those that don't do as His Words instruct us to do.



Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.


.

[TheForgiven]

Apparently you aren't familiar with some of the Early Church Father writings. They debated/battled even then, in the 2nd century. Papias disputed his rather bazaar beliefs about the Millennium (known as Chilliasm at that time) because he interpreted writings of Enoch literally. He taught that when Jesus came to set up a thousand year reign, that Christ would cause the earth to multiply its produce (fruits) a thousand fold. When he was questioned where he got this belief from, he claimed it was passed down from St. John, who told Polycarp (or I believe it was Ignatius), who in turn instructed him, but yet he had no proof or text to prove his theory.

It was very popular for the ECF's to claim apostolic connection. Papias and Iranaeus both did this (as well as a few others), and it's no surprise; both followed the same pattern of mistakes.

Eusebius of the 3rd century, noted how Papias may have been the cause of their discourse, as Iranaeus seems to have adapted to some of what Papias taught, which also led St. Barnabus of the 2nd century to adapt to some of their views. Eusebius, however, basically considered Papias to be a block head, not realizing that the increasing of the "fruits" was a figurative expression explaining the good works of the kingdom of Christ as it spread unto the entire inhabited world.

In short, the ECF's disputed by letter amongst themselves, over different beliefs and doctrines, each calling each other a heretic. This obviously hasn't changed today. So you point that the "end of days", which is ridiculous I might add, is growing worse because of disputing doctrines, is completely false. I'd recommend familiarizing yourself with writings of the ECF's.

Joe

[whirlwind]

I'd recommend familiarizing yourself with writings of the ECF's.

Joe


Familiarize myself with the writings of ECF's or.....familiarize myself with His writings?


Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.



.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Familiarize myself with the writings of ECF's or.....familiarize myself with His writings?

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
You should familiarize yourself with the ECF because they lived near the time of Christ and so can offer insight into what the Bible meant to it's original audience.

But that would help bring you to a true understanding of Scripture, so you would not be interested, as we all now know.

You hate knowledge and truth and the true meaning of Scripture because they contradict your date-setting delusions. Very sad. Very sad indeed.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

In the last days, and we are in those days....you will see a battle being waged. A battle of wills, of doctrines, of truth versus deception. As we near the days of the great tribulation, the last five months of this age then you will see tremendous deception. Be prepared. We are kept from the deception, the temptation of Satan, by knowing the Word of the Lord AND by "doing it."

The Irony! The Irony!

My eyes are burning! The Irony!

Judi - the woman who honors failed date-setter and chronic serial liar Watchman232 / BenYisrael / 144 - is warning us of "deception" :eek:.

:hysterical::lmbo:

It's like the Pope warning that men shouldn't wear dresses and pointy hats!

[whirlwind]

The Irony! The Irony!

My eyes are burning! The Irony!

Judi - the woman who honors failed date-setter and chronic serial liar Watchman232 / BenYisrael / 144 - is warning us of "deception" :eek:.

:hysterical::lmbo:

It's like the Pope warning that men shouldn't wear dresses and pointy hats!



I've noticed you have a problem with your eyes....and ears. :winking0071:

Yes Richard...I am warning you.


Ezekiel 33:2-4 Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman: If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people; Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.


Do you hear? Do you taketh the warning?

33:5-6 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul. But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

33:7-8 So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at My mouth, and warn them from Me. When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.




So, yes...I warn.



.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

The Irony! The Irony!

My eyes are burning! The Irony!

Judi - the woman who honors failed date-setter and chronic serial liar Watchman232 / BenYisrael / 144 - is warning us of "deception" :eek:.

:hysterical::lmbo:

It's like the Pope warning that men shouldn't wear dresses and pointy hats!
I've noticed you have a problem with your eyes....and ears. :winking0071:

Yes Richard...I am warning you.

Do you hear? Do you taketh the warning?

So, yes...I warn.


Your warning against "deception" is a warning about you and for you!

You are totally deceived but you deny the truth and refuse to answer simple and direct questions because they expose your delusions.

For example, your false time-line begins with the Exodus in 1491 BC. Where do we find that in the Bible? We don't? Oh my, silly me. I thought all your "teachings" and "warnings" were supposed to come from the Bible. Guess not, eh?

[whirlwind]

Your warning against "deception" is a warning about you and for you!

You are totally deceived but you deny the truth and refuse to answer simple and direct questions because they expose your delusions.

For example, your false time-line begins with the Exodus in 1491 BC. Where do we find that in the Bible? We don't? Oh my, silly me. I thought all your "teachings" and "warnings" were supposed to come from the Bible. Guess not, eh?



They come from the Bible, the Holy Spirit and those that qualify to be a man child.

If you take His Word, knowing that it contains all knowledge, then the answers are there.


.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Your warning against "deception" is a warning about you and for you!

You are totally deceived but you deny the truth and refuse to answer simple and direct questions because they expose your delusions.

For example, your false time-line begins with the Exodus in 1491 BC. Where do we find that in the Bible? We don't? Oh my, silly me. I thought all your "teachings" and "warnings" were supposed to come from the Bible. Guess not, eh?
They come from the Bible, the Holy Spirit and those that qualify to be a man child.

If you take His Word, knowing that it contains all knowledge, then the answers are there.


.
The starting date of your false date-setting time-line is not in the Bible.

Your assertion that "They come from the Bible, the Holy Spirit and those that qualify to be a man child" is absolutely equivalent to "YOU MADE THEM UP YOURSELF!"

This would be totally obvious to you if you just looked around at all the other people who make the same claim about things you deny are true. For example, you disagree with Harold Camping. He claims that God "opened" his eyes so now he can see things in the Bible that have been hidden for two thousand years. Why don't you believe him?

This is your fundamental delusion. You cannot support your interpretations from Scripture, so you claim "God" gave them to you.

Open you eyes Judi. You delusions have been exposed.

Here is the fundamental question you have never answered: How do you distinguish between your own ideas and those inspired by God? Answer that, and you will be free from your delusions.

[whirlwind]

The starting date of your false date-setting time-line is not in the Bible.

Your assertion that "They come from the Bible, the Holy Spirit and those that qualify to be a man child" is absolutely equivalent to "YOU MADE THEM UP YOURSELF!"


If you only knew my mathematical skills you would be laughing as I now am. No Richard...I didn't make them up.




This would be totally obvious to you if you just looked around at all the other people who make the same claim about things you deny are true. For example, you disagree with Harold Camping. He claims that God "opened" his eyes so now he can see things in the Bible that have been hidden for two thousand years. Why don't you believe him?


I don't look around at other people. And, I don't believe or not believe Camping. I said I don't follow him, listen to, or read anything about him. If you don't believe him why do you know what he teaches? Seems a waste of time to me but...whatever floats your boat.




This is your fundamental delusion. You cannot support your interpretations from Scripture, so you claim "God" gave them to you.

Open you eyes Judi. You delusions have been exposed.


A great deal is being exposed but it isn't my "delusions." You should note the Scripture I always provide to document what I teach. God does give them to me and they are there for all that "search the Scriptures." [John 5:39]



Here is the fundamental question you have never answered: How do you distinguish between your own ideas and those inspired by God? Answer that, and you will be free from your delusions.


They are written.



.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

The starting date of your false date-setting time-line is not in the Bible.

Your assertion that "They come from the Bible, the Holy Spirit and those that qualify to be a man child" is absolutely equivalent to "YOU MADE THEM UP YOURSELF!"
If you only knew my mathematical skills you would be laughing as I now am. No Richard...I didn't make them up.

If your posts are any indication of your logical abilities, I would be surprised if you could add 2 + 2. I'm not trying to be rude, I mean this most sincerely. The logic of your posts has been uniformly abominable. Mathematical skills are almost entirely based on logic.

But yes, please do share your mathematical knowledge. I have degrees in Mathematics and Physics, with a significant amount of graduate work in Quantum Theory. So do share ... maybe we can rehabilitate our relationship by discussing something that is not manifestly absurd.




This would be totally obvious to you if you just looked around at all the other people who make the same claim about things you deny are true. For example, you disagree with Harold Camping. He claims that God "opened" his eyes so now he can see things in the Bible that have been hidden for two thousand years. Why don't you believe him?
I don't look around at other people. And, I don't believe or not believe Camping. I said I don't follow him, listen to, or read anything about him. If you don't believe him why do you know what he teaches? Seems a waste of time to me but...whatever floats your boat.

More absurdities. You would not have the date 1491 BC if you had not received it from Ussher's Chronology which absurdly places creation at 4004 BC.

And you would have no "Latter Rain Man-child" doctrine if you had not received it from the nut-jobs that invented it. You may not "know" where you got the idea, but I know you did not independently invent it. It's like a finger print. There is nothing in the Bible that makes the connection between the "Latter Rain" and the "Man-child" so it is exceedingly unlikely that you independently created the same fiction.




This is your fundamental delusion. You cannot support your interpretations from Scripture, so you claim "God" gave them to you.

Open you eyes Judi. You delusions have been exposed.
A great deal is being exposed but it isn't my "delusions." You should note the Scripture I always provide to document what I teach. God does give them to me and they are there for all that "search the Scriptures." [John 5:39]

That is another lie. You never documented your date 1491 BC. You never documented where Christ stated that the retaining wall was part of the "Temple buildings." You never documented your assertion that Christ was talking about the spiritual temple in Matthew 23:21. And you know why you never documented any of these things? Because they are not in the Bible. Your statements are ridiculously easy to refute. But you don't care do you? You will continue to assert falsehoods no matter how many times they are exposed. This is why I say you are a deluded liar. Truth is far, far from you.




Here is the fundamental question you have never answered: How do you distinguish between your own ideas and those inspired by God? Answer that, and you will be free from your delusions.
They are written.

Harold Camping says the same thing! That's you delusion Judi. You think your interpretation is equivalent to the words of the Bible. You are wrong. But you arrogantly refuse to admit that your interpretations are fallible. That is why I say you are deluded. And you only confirm my words with your every post.

[whirlwind]

If your posts are any indication of your logical abilities, I would be surprised if you could add 2 + 2. I'm not trying to be rude, I mean this most sincerely. The logic of your posts has been uniformly abominable. Mathematical skills are almost entirely based on logic.

But yes, please do share your mathematical knowledge. I have degrees in Mathematics and Physics, with a significant amount of graduate work in Quantum Theory. So do share ... maybe we can rehabilitate our relationship by discussing something that is not manifestly absurd.


:lol: How very impressive! :clap2:

Perhaps you should spend more time on your reading and comprehension skills? Read again what I wrote and look at it through the eyes of someone not trying to impress another. In other words, take ego out of it.







More absurdities. You would not have the date 1491 BC if you had not received it from Ussher's Chronology which absurdly places creation at 4004 BC.



Sorry...I'm not familiar with Ussher's chronology...absurd or not.




And you would have no "Latter Rain Man-child" doctrine if you had not received it from the nut-jobs that invented it. You may not "know" where you got the idea, but I know you did not independently invent it. It's like a finger print. There is nothing in the Bible that makes the connection between the "Latter Rain" and the "Man-child" so it is exceedingly unlikely that you independently created the same fiction.


Again, you show your lack of reading skills. I NEVER said I received it independently. And, what you term "fiction" found in the Bible, teaches us of both...if one has the eyes and ears. To others, the spiritually discerned, it will be foolishness. (you'll find that in the Bible too) :D



That is another lie. You never documented your date 1491 BC. You never documented where Christ stated that the retaining wall was part of the "Temple buildings." You never documented your assertion that Christ was talking about the spiritual temple in Matthew 23:21. And you know why you never documented any of these things? Because they are not in the Bible. Your statements are ridiculously easy to refute. But you don't care do you? You will continue to assert falsehoods no matter how many times they are exposed. This is why I say you are a deluded liar. Truth is far, far from you.



And, as you read back over your above condemnation...you will see why I choose the words I use very carefully...


Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.


When you condemn as you have, please understand the words I choose are His Words so it is not me being attacked. Your choice.




Harold Camping says the same thing! That's you delusion Judi. You think your interpretation is equivalent to the words of the Bible. You are wrong. But you arrogantly refuse to admit that your interpretations are fallible. That is why I say you are deluded. And you only confirm my words with your every post.



Again, your reading skills need a little work Richard. On another forum a poster told me Camping used that date as the end of the world. Did I do that?



.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

More absurdities. You would not have the date 1491 BC if you had not received it from Ussher's Chronology which absurdly places creation at 4004 BC.
Sorry...I'm not familiar with Ussher's chronology...absurd or not.

That shows the depth of the abyss of your ignorance. You don't even know the source of the false date you are using!

So why do you refuse to answer this question?

Where did you get the date 1491 BC for the Exodus, and why do you think it is correct?




And you would have no "Latter Rain Man-child" doctrine if you had not received it from the nut-jobs that invented it. You may not "know" where you got the idea, but I know you did not independently invent it. It's like a finger print. There is nothing in the Bible that makes the connection between the "Latter Rain" and the "Man-child" so it is exceedingly unlikely that you independently created the same fiction.
Again, you show your lack of reading skills. I NEVER said I received it independently. And, what you term "fiction" found in the Bible, teaches us of both...if one has the eyes and ears. To others, the spiritually discerned, it will be foolishness. (you'll find that in the Bible too) :D

Throwing out random insults does not make you look smarter, especially when they are false. Nothing I have written indicates any lack of "reading skills." You are the one with fundamental challenges in that arena. You don't even know what the word "independently" means! In the context used above, it refers to something you made up or got if directly from God and the Bible, as opposed to something you picked up that was invented by other interpreters like the Latter Rain Movement. But you did not understand this! On the contrary, you are saying you did not get it "independently" because you got it from "the Bible, the Holy Spirit." Talk about a lack of reading comprehension!

And beside that, you are now driving the conversation into the abyss of mindless insults rather than simply answering my question! How typical! You cannot answer any real questions about your ludicrous claims! So let me ask again:

WHERE DID YOU GET THE DATE 1491 BC FOR THE EXODUS?




That is another lie. You never documented your date 1491 BC. You never documented where Christ stated that the retaining wall was part of the "Temple buildings." You never documented your assertion that Christ was talking about the spiritual temple in Matthew 23:21. And you know why you never documented any of these things? Because they are not in the Bible. Your statements are ridiculously easy to refute. But you don't care do you? You will continue to assert falsehoods no matter how many times they are exposed. This is why I say you are a deluded liar. Truth is far, far from you.
And, as you read back over your above condemnation...you will see why I choose the words I use very carefully...
Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.When you condemn as you have, please understand the words I choose are His Words so it is not me being attacked. Your choice.

You are condemning yourself Judi. You are the one who has chosen to persistently lie in public.and make false and indefensible statements. You are the one who refuses to provide evidence. You are the one who refuses to answer simple and direct questions about your claims. You are the one claiming to have infallible interpretations straight from God.

See red bold text? Why have you not answered that question? Why do you continue to wrestle over words?

This is your fundamental delusion. You make unsupportable claims and when someone asks for evidence you go ballistic on them! You can do nothing but spew babble and attack. It is pathetic to watch.




Harold Camping says the same thing! That's you delusion Judi. You think your interpretation is equivalent to the words of the Bible. You are wrong. But you arrogantly refuse to admit that your interpretations are fallible. That is why I say you are deluded. And you only confirm my words with your every post.
Again, your reading skills need a little work Richard. On another forum a poster told me Camping used that date as the end of the world. Did I do that?

Talk about lacking reading skills! You really got to quit projecting your problems on others Judi. I did not say you got your date from Camping. I said it was ironic that you both were using the same date. Man - don't you understand anything? I have explicitly stated that I believed your claim that you did not get your date from Camping, and in post #9 I made it clear that you disagree with Camping! Take a look:


This would be totally obvious to you if you just looked around at all the other people who make the same claim about things you deny are true. For example, you disagree with Harold Camping. He claims that God "opened" his eyes so now he can see things in the Bible that have been hidden for two thousand years. Why don't you believe him?

This is your fundamental delusion. You cannot support your interpretations from Scripture, so you claim "God" gave them to you.

Open you eyes Judi. You delusions have been exposed.

Here is the fundamental question you have never answered: How do you distinguish between your own ideas and those inspired by God? Answer that, and you will be free from your delusions. Now for your lesson in basic reading comprehension. I used the fact that you disagreed with Camping to help you see your delusions.

And hey! Look at that ... another unanswered question! I've asked this question repeatedly. And like all the other questions you refuse to answer, you refuse to answer this question because it exposes your delusion.

How do you distinguish between your own ideas and those inspired by God?

The more you write the more it becomes obvious that you are avoiding all truth. How do you maintain the illusion of honesty to yourself. How do you look in the mirror? Have you no conscience?

[whirlwind]

That shows the depth of the abyss of your ignorance. You don't even know the source of the false date you are using!

So why do you refuse to answer this question?

Where did you get the date 1491 BC for the Exodus, and why do you think it is correct?

Throwing out random insults does not make you look smarter, especially when they are false. Nothing I have written indicates any lack of "reading skills." You are the one with fundamental challenges in that arena. You don't even know what the word "independently" means! In the context used above, it refers to something you made up or got if directly from God and the Bible, as opposed to something you picked up that was invented by other interpreters like the Latter Rain Movement. But you did not understand this! On the contrary, you are saying you did not get it "independently" because you got it from "the Bible, the Holy Spirit." Talk about a lack of reading comprehension!


Did you really say, "throwing out random insults does not make you look smarter?" :hysterical: Why yes, I believe you did. :yes:





And beside that, you are now driving the conversation into the abyss of mindless insults rather than simply answering my question! How typical! You cannot answer any real questions about your ludicrous claims! So let me ask again:

WHERE DID YOU GET THE DATE 1491 BC FOR THE EXODUS?



From the three I mentioned previously. I repeat....The Bible, The Holy Spirit and man children.





You are condemning yourself Judi. You are the one who has chosen to persistently lie in public.and make false and indefensible statements. You are the one who refuses to provide evidence. You are the one who refuses to answer simple and direct questions about your claims. You are the one claiming to have infallible interpretations straight from God.


Did I every say I was infallible? Nope, don't think so. Did I lie? Nope, don't think so.

Because you don't understand doesn't make it a lie Richard. What you see as a refusal to answer is actually me not answering clearly enough for you to understand. Why? Read your responses.







See red bold text? Why have you not answered that question? Why do you continue to wrestle over words?


Because of your choice of words. Why do you somehow feel that I should answer you when you are clearly, even before pearls are thrown your way, trying to rend me?





This is your fundamental delusion. You make unsupportable claims and when someone asks for evidence you go ballistic on them! You can do nothing but spew babble and attack. It is pathetic to watch.


:lol: I again ask...did YOU really say, "you go ballistic," and you "spew babble and attack?" Why yes, I believe you really did say that. :eek: Care to quote one of those responses where I went ballistic?




Talk about lacking reading skills! You really got to quit projecting your problems on others Judi. I did not say you got your date from Camping. I said it was ironic that you both were using the same date. Man - don't you understand anything? I have explicitly stated that I believed your claim that you did not get your date from Camping, and in post #9 I made it clear that you disagree with Camping! Take a look:

Now for your lesson in basic reading comprehension. I used the fact that you disagreed with Camping to help you see your delusions.

And hey! Look at that ... another unanswered question! I've asked this question repeatedly. And like all the other questions you refuse to answer, you refuse to answer this question because it exposes your delusion.

How do you distinguish between your own ideas and those inspired by God?

The more you write the more it becomes obvious that you are avoiding all truth. How do you maintain the illusion of honesty to yourself. How do you look in the mirror? Have you no conscience?



Because, as I have answered before....It is written.



.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

That shows the depth of the abyss of your ignorance. You don't even know the source of the false date you are using!

So why do you refuse to answer this question?

Where did you get the date 1491 BC for the Exodus, and why do you think it is correct?

Throwing out random insults does not make you look smarter, especially when they are false. Nothing I have written indicates any lack of "reading skills." You are the one with fundamental challenges in that arena. You don't even know what the word "independently" means! In the context used above, it refers to something you made up or got if directly from God and the Bible, as opposed to something you picked up that was invented by other interpreters like the Latter Rain Movement. But you did not understand this! On the contrary, you are saying you did not get it "independently" because you got it from "the Bible, the Holy Spirit." Talk about a lack of reading comprehension!
Did you really say, "throwing out random insults does not make you look smarter?" :hysterical: Why yes, I believe you did. :yes:

Yes I did say that, and I stand by my words.

The things I say that you interpret as "insults" are nothing but strongly worded statements of fact backed up by evidence.

It's not an insult to call a liar a liar.

I have presented a very large mountain of evidence and you continue to refuse to admit the truth. I use strong words so that you and everyone reading will understand the gravity of the situation. You pretend to be a Christian but you do not feel compelled to speak truth even when your lies cause you to be called a "liar." I never would have felt the need to use such strong language if you were not so persistent in lies and perverse in your twisted use of words.




And beside that, you are now driving the conversation into the abyss of mindless insults rather than simply answering my question! How typical! You cannot answer any real questions about your ludicrous claims! So let me ask again:

WHERE DID YOU GET THE DATE 1491 BC FOR THE EXODUS?From the three I mentioned previously. I repeat....The Bible, The Holy Spirit and man children.

This is a perfect example of your reading disability. Anyone with any basic reading skills would know that I was asking about how and where in the Bible you found that date, especially since that is exactly what I asked earlier in this thread. And besides that, you know that I know that you think you got your ideas from God and the Bible, so your answer is absurd to the third degree.

And I am glad that you emphasized my phrase "mindless insults." That's exactly what you are doing. You refuse to speak truth, so I try to compel you with strong language backed up with evidence. This is intended to pierce through your stubborn arrogance that is causing your delusion. But unfortunately, it merely caused you to mindlessly mimic the "strong language" but without any evidence to support it! Thus, your "strong language" constitutes nothing but MINDLESS INSULTS whereas my "strong language" is based on facts and is intended to evoke an honest response from you. Unfortunately, it is not working the way I intended because you do not mind publicly presenting yourself as a deluded liar who claims to be speaking for God Himself.

You evoked all this negative language when you began by perverting Scripture by deliberately confusing the physical temple mentioned in the Olivet Discourse with the "spiritual" temple so as to avoid answering my question - the question you have yet to answer - the question that proves your interpretation false, namely:

WHY DID JESUS PREDICT THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE BUILDINGS IF THEIR DESTRUCTION IN 70 AD HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS PROPHECY?

And you have added many more questions to the list of those you refuse to answer. This proves you hate truth because anyone who loves truth would try to answer honest and sincere questions, and certainly would not constantly and persistently twist and pervert words just to protect their own false interpretations!




You are condemning yourself Judi. You are the one who has chosen to persistently lie in public.and make false and indefensible statements. You are the one who refuses to provide evidence. You are the one who refuses to answer simple and direct questions about your claims. You are the one claiming to have infallible interpretations straight from God.
Did I every say I was infallible? Nope, don't think so. Did I lie? Nope, don't think so.

When I said "you are claiming to have infallible interpretations straight from God" I expected you to understand that the "claim" is by implication. This follows directly from your claim that you are not "interpreting" the Bible and that your opinions are only "what is written" and is confirmed by your claim that you got your doctrines "from the Bible, the Holy Spirit and those that qualify to be a man child." You present no logical, factual, or evidential basis for your claims. When you are shown to be in error, you simply assert that your interpretation of the passage is "what is written." And that is the nature of your profound delusion. You mistakenly believe that your interpretation of "what is written" is the only possible interpretation of the words written. You never admit that your interpretations could be wrong or that there could be other interpretations that might be valid. You are implying, therefore, that you have "divine knowledge" and since divine knowledge is infallible, you are implying your interpretations are infallible.

I have explained this over and over and over again, but you refuse to discuss it. You don't even answer! Here is the question that you must answer if you are to be free from you delusion of infallibility:

HOW DO YOU DISCERN BETWEEN YOUR OWN IDEAS AND THOSE OF GOD?

Answer that, and you will begin your journey to freedom from your delusions.



Because you don't understand doesn't make it a lie Richard. What you see as a refusal to answer is actually me not answering clearly enough for you to understand. Why? Read your responses.

That is not true. For example, you quoted the story about the Pharisees trying to trap Jesus with questions about paying taxes as an "answer" to my question about why Jesus predicted the destruction of the Temple buildings! Your answer had NOTHING to do with the question. It was just another ploy to avoid dealing with the truth.

How is it possible that you can ignore the blazing truth of this situation? YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED. YOU ARE LYING WHEN YOU CLAIM YOU ANSWERED. And you will be called a liar as long as you persist in this falsehood. It does not have to be this way. You have chosen to pervert words to avoid the truth.




This is your fundamental delusion. You make unsupportable claims and when someone asks for evidence you go ballistic on them! You can do nothing but spew babble and attack. It is pathetic to watch.
Because of your choice of words. Why do you somehow feel that I should answer you when you are clearly, even before pearls are thrown your way, trying to rend me?

I chose the word LIAR because you have lied.

I chose the word PERVERSE because your attempts to avoid the truth are truly perverse.

I chose the word TWISTED because your tactics are to twist words to avoid the truth.

All of this developed one step at a time. Go back to the beginning. I tried to reason with you and you spewed out absurd and ridiculous "answers" to my questions even as you claimed to be a "carrier of His Message." You have refuse to be rational. Indeed ... what did you think you would get when you sowed the wind of such twisted words?

Hosea 8:7 For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind: it hath no stalk: the bud shall yield no meal: if so be it yield, the strangers shall swallow it up.

You reap what you sow, Whirlwind! :winking0071:

You are reaping scorn because you have scorned truth.




And hey! Look at that ... another unanswered question! I've asked this question repeatedly. And like all the other questions you refuse to answer, you refuse to answer this question because it exposes your delusion.

How do you distinguish between your own ideas and those inspired by God?

The more you write the more it becomes obvious that you are avoiding all truth. How do you maintain the illusion of honesty to yourself. How do you look in the mirror? Have you no conscience? Because, as I have answered before....It is written.

Wow! That's amazing. You are persisting in your lies and delusions! You have not answered. I have proved over and over and over again that you have not answered. If you had answered it would be trivial for you to prove that I am wrong. But you won't do that! And why not? Because you cannot, because you are lying!

And you repeat again your delusion that your private and crazy and insane and false and ludicrous interpretations are nothing but "It is written"??? MADNESS! :eek:

[kathryn]

Whirlwind....Could you answer that question for some of the rest of us? I would really like to know your answer. (pretty pretty please?):)

[kathryn]

...the one about the destruction of the temple.

[whirlwind]

...the one about the destruction of the temple.



Do you mean....WHY DID JESUS PREDICT THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE BUILDINGS IF THEIR DESTRUCTION IN 70 AD HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS PROPHECY?....that question? :lol:




1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Things continue to happen, even in current events, that are examples for us. The literal foretells the spiritual.


1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Although that speaks of flesh bodies it is also an example of events. For instance, the Advent of the Messiah was foretold, the Advent happened and it serves also as an example for those of us who follow Him. He was literally crucified and we are to spiritually crucify ourselves to have Him dwell in us.....


Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me.

So, when His disciples asked Him to tell them of the last days, the sign of His coming, etc...His reply was


Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.


As He was speaking of the "buildings of the temple," and as we know that He knows what will be....then He was fully aware of the 70AD event, and fully aware of the Islamic Dome of the Rock. To prevent us from misunderstanding, as many have, He specified that at the time of which He was speaking was when, "there shalll not be left here one stone upon another."

Also we have to realize this age is where we are proven. He wrote the letter to us and foretold us all things. Do we, will we, listen to Him (even if we confuse many things) or will we listen to man?


Deuteronomy 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

So, as He told them of the end of the world/age and what would happen He specifcally DID NOT name "the temple," as being destroyed. He specifically stated that not one stone would stand upon another and yet.....this 70AD doctrine slithered it's way into the hearts of God's children just as the rapture doctrine has. They have hearkened unto the words of a false prophet or dreamer of dreams.

Back to the beginning. The buildings literally fell as an example of the spiritual falling of all things related to a man-made temple, church, synagogue, etc. that will happen at the end of this world/age.


.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

As He was speaking of the "buildings of the temple," and as we know that He knows what will be....then He was fully aware of the 70AD event, and fully aware of the Islamic Dome of the Rock. To prevent us from misunderstanding, as many have, He specified that at the time of which He was speaking was when, "there shalll not be left here one stone upon another."

First, thanks for presenting an answer! That's great. I really appreciate it. :thumb:

But I do not understand your explanation. It seems self-contradictory. You say that Christ mentioned the Temple buildings to PREVENT folks from becoming confused, but the opposite happened! The fact that he predicted the destruction that happened in 70 AD seems to be CREATING the confusion rather than PREVENTING it.

Your explanation does not make sense to me. Why did Christ confuse the issue by predicting the destruction of the Temple buildings? I still do not understand your explanation. It seems totally backwards.

And why didn't he specifically mention the retaining wall if that was the true object of his prophecy?

Thanks again! I am very hopeful that we can actually discuss the details of what the Bible actually states.

All the very best,

Richard

[whirlwind]

First, thanks for presenting an answer! That's great. I really appreciate it. :thumb:



Not that I don't appreciate your kinder tone but you should give your thanks to Kathryn.




But I do not understand your explanation. It seems self-contradictory. You say that Christ mentioned the Temple buildings to PREVENT folks from becoming confused, but the opposite happened! The fact that he predicted the destruction that happened in 70 AD seems to be CREATING the confusion rather than PREVENTING it.



It never confused me or many others. And, I didn't say He mentioned the destructions of the buildings so folks wouldn't be confused. I said He mentioned the stones so people wouldn't become confused. So they would know that the end of the world was when it would happen.

And, in His prediction you must include the sign of His coming, the stones standing as well as the other predictions in the chapter. For it is written "So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors." [Matthew 24:33]




Your explanation does not make sense to me. Why did Christ confuse the issue by predicting the destruction of the Temple buildings? I still do not understand your explanation. It seems totally backwards.



Don't be confused, just understand He didn't predict only the buildings of the temple that were before Him but also the end of the world and of His coming.




And why didn't he specifically mention the retaining wall if that was the true object of his prophecy?


The object of His prophecy was the end of the world...not the buildings falling and not the stones standing. Their mention was to mark the event, so it wouldn't be misconstrued. Just as He specified the buildings in front of Him He specified "here" for the one stone upon another. They still stand.



Thanks again! I am very hopeful that we can actually discuss the details of what the Bible actually states.

All the very best,

Richard



I was under the impression that I have been doing that.



.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Not that I don't appreciate your kinder tone but you should give your thanks to Kathryn.

The kinder tone is always given when a person chooses to communicate honestly and rationally with me. Always. No exceptions.



It never confused me or many others. And, I didn't say He mentioned the destructions of the buildings so folks wouldn't be confused. I said He mentioned the stones so people wouldn't become confused. So they would know that the end of the world was when it would happen.

Oh. I guess there has been some confusion. I was under the impression you were answering the question about why Jesus predicted the destruction of the Temple buildings.

So let's try again. Please answer this question:

Why did Jesus predict the destruction of the Temple buildings if their destruction in 70 AD had nothing to do with the fulfillment of his prophecy?

Thanks!

Richard

[whirlwind]

The kinder tone is always given when a person chooses to communicate honestly and rationally with me. Always. No exceptions.


Please don't confuse the post written in response to Kathryn's question as choosing to respond to you....it wasn't.



Oh. I guess there has been some confusion. I was under the impression you were answering the question about why Jesus predicted the destruction of the Temple buildings.

So let's try again. Please answer this question:

Why did Jesus predict the destruction of the Temple buildings if their destruction in 70 AD had nothing to do with the fulfillment of his prophecy?

Thanks!

Richard


The question has been answered Richard. I'm sorry you are unable to see.


.

[kathryn]

Thanks Judi....I understand what you're saying.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Thanks Judi....I understand what you're saying.
That's curious. Maybe you could explain it to me then? Her explanation made no sense to me at all.

Why did Jesus predict the destruction of the Temple buildings if their destruction in 70 AD had nothing to do with his prophecy?

Does not the fulfillment of his prediction in 70 AD prove that his prediction was fulfilled in 70 AD?

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Please don't confuse the post written in response to Kathryn's question as choosing to respond to you....it wasn't.

My mistake. I thought perhaps you had chose to speak honestly and rationally.



The question has been answered Richard. I'm sorry you are unable to see.

No it has not been answered. But that's OK - there's no need to go over this any more. Your interpretation has been totally refuted. It is clear that you are hopelessly confused and you beliefs are utterly incoherent.

Have a nice day.

[whirlwind]

My mistake. I thought perhaps you had chose to speak honestly and rationally.


No it has not been answered. But that's OK - there's no need to go over this any more. Your interpretation has been totally refuted. It is clear that you are hopelessly confused and you beliefs are utterly incoherent.

Have a nice day.


The confusion and incoherency you experience is due to several reasons. One of which is you won't accept that 70AD wasn't the fulfillment of the prophecy.



.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

The confusion and incoherency you experience is due to several reasons. One of which is you won't accept that 70AD wasn't the fulfillment of the prophecy.

Well, you've had ample opportunity to correct my confusion!

It's really very simple. Here are the plain and obvious facts that have convinced me:

1) Christ predicted the destruction of the Temple buildings.
2) Christ said it would happen during the lifetime of the first century generation.
3) Daniel predicted that Christ would come, be killed, and then the city and the Temple would be destroyed.
4) Christ connected his prophecies with those of Daniel.
5) Everything Christ and Daniel predicted in the four points above was fulfilled in 70 AD.

The only source of confusion and incoherency that I have experienced is your denial of this large set of mutually confirming witnesses.

And the real joke is that you are using an utterly absurd tactic to void the plain truth of Scripture. Your appeal to the stones of the retaining wall makes a mockery of logic and history, let alone the meaning of Christ's prophecy.

That's why you are stumped on the question:

WHY DID JESUS PREDICT THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE BUILDINGS IF THEIR DESTRUCTION IN 70 AD HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS PROPHECY?

[kathryn]

Richard says:That's curious. Maybe you could explain it to me then? Her explanation made no sense to me at all.

Why did Jesus predict the destruction of the Temple buildings if their destruction in 70 AD had nothing to do with his prophecy?

Does not the fulfillment of his prediction in 70 AD prove that his prediction was fulfilled in 70 AD?
__________________

.
Hi Richard...from what I can understand, Whirlwind (Judi) didn't say that the destruction of the temple buildings had nothing to do with his prophecy.
She was making the point that He used the example of the stones, to show the fulfillment now being worked out in the spiritual realm.

[kathryn]

...and that it has not yet been accomplished, which I agree.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Richard says:That's curious. Maybe you could explain it to me then? Her explanation made no sense to me at all.

Why did Jesus predict the destruction of the Temple buildings if their destruction in 70 AD had nothing to do with his prophecy?

Does not the fulfillment of his prediction in 70 AD prove that his prediction was fulfilled in 70 AD?
__________________

.
Hi Richard...from what I can understand, Whirlwind (Judi) didn't say that the destruction of the temple buildings had nothing to do with his prophecy.
She was making the point that He used the example of the stones, to show the fulfillment now being worked out in the spiritual realm.
Hi Kathryn,

Yes, I understood that. But I don't think that is an answer. I didn't ask about the stones of the retaining wall. I asked about the destruction of the Temple buildings.

Christ began the Olivet Discourse by predicting the destruction of the Temple buildings. The disciples asked "When" and he went on to explain.

So why did Jesus predict the destruction of the Temple buildings if the fulfillment of his prophecy had nothing to do with the fulfillment of his prophecy?

Is there any reason a person should not take this prophecy as fulfilled?

Think about how all the parts fit together. Christ said the Temple would be destroyed during the lifetime of his first century audience. This is confirmed.

So I am truly mystified how there could be any confusion about this question. Especially since it is the only hard historical evidence we have for predictive prophecy in the Bible! Folks who oppose the truth of it's fulfillment are attacking the greatest witness in support of the Bible. Here is a typical explanation from the year 1805 (source (http://www.tentmaker.org/books/destruction-of-jerusalem.htm)):
THE DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM

An Absolute and Irresistible

PROOF OF THE DIVINE ORIGIN OF CHRISTIANITY

Including a narrative of the calamities which befel the Jews
so far as they tend to verify our Lord's predictions relative to that event.

By George Peter Holford
(Written in 1805)

"I consider the Prophecy relative to the destruction of the Jewish nation, if there were nothing else to support Christianity, as absolutely irresistible." --Mr. Erskine's Speech, at the Trial of Williams, for publishing Paine's Age of Reason

PREFACE
History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived; the solemn warnings and admonitions which they hold out to all nations, but especially such as are favoured with the light and blessings of REVELATION; together with the impressive and terrific grandeur of the events themselves--are circumstances which must always insure to the subject of the following pages more than ordinary degrees of interest and importance. Many eminent and learned men have employed their pens in the illustration of it; but the fruits of their labours are, for the most part, contained in large and expensive works, out of the reach of numbers, to whom the discussion might prove equally interesting and improving. For the use and gratification of such, the present Treatise, in a more accessible and familiar form, is diffidently offered to the public. In order that it might be better adapted for the general reader, critical inquiries and tedious details are equally avoided; but it has been the care of the writer not to omit any important fact or argument that, in his opinion, tended to elucidate the subject. Countenanced by the example of many respectable names, he has ventured to introduce the extraordinary prodigies, which, according to Josephus, preceded the destruction of the Holy City. He has also added a few sentences in their defense, but he does not intend thereby to express his unqualified admission of their genuineness.
I would be very interested to know what you think of these facts.

All the best,

Richard

[kathryn]

Richard...I agree completely that the destruction of the Temple buildings marked the complete fulfillment of the end of the Old Covenant, Judaisim. It was the physical manifestation of that end. However, I do believe it moved into the spiritual realm, and since the cross, "Herod's temple" (or the temple buildings) has been coming down in all of us. There is a vast amount of types and shadows which demonstrate the same principle, from what I can see...but types and shadows can't be so easily debated, can they?

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Richard...I agree completely that the destruction of the Temple buildings marked the complete fulfillment of the end of the Old Covenant, Judaisim. It was the physical manifestation of that end. However, I do believe it moved into the spiritual realm, and since the cross, "Herod's temple" (or the temple buildings) has been coming down in all of us. There is a vast amount of types and shadows which demonstrate the same principle, from what I can see...but types and shadows can't be so easily debated, can they?
Hey there Kathryn,

I understand your point, and I agree that there can be plenty of conversation and speculation about "types and shadows" relating to modern times after the plain and indisputable facts of Scripture are accepted and used in the foundation of our understanding.

But it is absurd to assert that the 70 AD fulfillment of Christ's Olivet prophecy had nothing to do with the fulfillment of Christ's Olivet prophecy.

Great chatting!

Richard

[whirlwind]

Well, you've had ample opportunity to correct my confusion!



Your confusion comes from within and you must correct it.




It's really very simple. Here are the plain and obvious facts that have convinced me:

1) Christ predicted the destruction of the Temple buildings.
2) Christ said it would happen during the lifetime of the first century generation.
3) Daniel predicted that Christ would come, be killed, and then the city and the Temple would be destroyed.
4) Christ connected his prophecies with those of Daniel.
5) Everything Christ and Daniel predicted in the four points above was fulfilled in 70 AD.

The only source of confusion and incoherency that I have experienced is your denial of this large set of mutually confirming witnesses.

And the real joke is that you are using an utterly absurd tactic to void the plain truth of Scripture. Your appeal to the stones of the retaining wall makes a mockery of logic and history, let alone the meaning of Christ's prophecy.

That's why you are stumped on the question:

WHY DID JESUS PREDICT THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE BUILDINGS IF THEIR DESTRUCTION IN 70 AD HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS PROPHECY?



The question doesn't stump me....the answer baffles you.



.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

It's really very simple. Here are the plain and obvious facts that have convinced me:

1) Christ predicted the destruction of the Temple buildings.
2) Christ said it would happen during the lifetime of the first century generation.
3) Daniel predicted that Christ would come, be killed, and then the city and the Temple would be destroyed.
4) Christ connected his prophecies with those of Daniel.
5) Everything Christ and Daniel predicted in the four points above was fulfilled in 70 AD.

The only source of confusion and incoherency that I have experienced is your denial of this large set of mutually confirming witnesses.

And the real joke is that you are using an utterly absurd tactic to void the plain truth of Scripture. Your appeal to the stones of the retaining wall makes a mockery of logic and history, let alone the meaning of Christ's prophecy.

That's why you are stumped on the question:

WHY DID JESUS PREDICT THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE BUILDINGS IF THEIR DESTRUCTION IN 70 AD HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS PROPHECY?
The question doesn't stump me....the answer baffles you.

OK - a very good method to resolve confusions like this is for me to try to reflect your answer back to you, so you can correct my confusion. Let's try that.

Here is your answer as best as I can understand it:

Christ mentioned the destruction of the Temple buildings so we could understand that event as a shadow of what is happening in the church.

But he knew it would lead to confusion, so he clarified that "not one stone would be left upon another" so that we would know that the destruction in 70 AD was not the "main point" of what he was predicting.

Is that about right?

I really think this method my work. :thumb:

[whirlwind]

OK - a very good method to resolve confusions like this is for me to try to reflect your answer back to you, so you can correct my confusion. Let's try that.

Here is your answer as best as I can understand it:

Christ mentioned the destruction of the Temple buildings so we could understand that event as a shadow of what is happening in the church.

But he knew it would lead to confusion, so he clarified that "not one stone would be left upon another" so that we would know that the destruction in 70 AD was not the "main point" of what he was predicting.

Is that about right?

I really think this method my work. :thumb:



I'm sorry you are unable, at this time, to comprehend truth and even more saddened that others may believe what you teach. We near the last days. In these days, of the many called followers of Christ...there are a "few chosen." They are the firstfruits, they are the apostles, prophets, teachers,the "two witnesses" chosen for the specific purpose of witnessing...the first (fruits) in the last (days).


Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.


Along with the chosen, the two groups of "two witnesses," that are to witness His truth, there are also chosen "two false witnesses" and they too are "at the last."



Matthew 26:60 But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,

What I see...and....THIS IS INTERPRETATION...is that the two false witnesses are:



RAPTURE

PRETERISM



.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

OK - a very good method to resolve confusions like this is for me to try to reflect your answer back to you, so you can correct my confusion. Let's try that.

Here is your answer as best as I can understand it:

Christ mentioned the destruction of the Temple buildings so we could understand that event as a shadow of what is happening in the church.

But he knew it would lead to confusion, so he clarified that "not one stone would be left upon another" so that we would know that the destruction in 70 AD was not the "main point" of what he was predicting.

Is that about right?

I really think this method my work. :thumb:I'm sorry you are unable, at this time, to comprehend truth and even more saddened that others may believe what you teach. We near the last days. In these days, of the many called followers of Christ...there are a "few chosen." They are the firstfruits, they are the apostles, prophets, teachers,the "two witnesses" chosen for the specific purpose of witnessing...the first (fruits) in the last (days).
Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen. Along with the chosen, the two groups of "two witnesses," that are to witness His truth, there are also chosen "two false witnesses" and they too are "at the last."

Matthew 26:60 But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,What I see...and....THIS IS INTERPRETATION...is that the two false witnesses are:



RAPTURE

PRETERISM



.
Yes, yes, yes, we all understand your opinion of Preterism. Unfortunately, your opinion is demonstrably false and unbiblical. Indeed, your Futurist doctrine directly attacks the one and only hard historical witness that proves the Bible contains supernatural prophecy. I have explained this many times, and true to form, you have ignored the truth and simply failed to respond. So contrary to your opinion, Preterism is one of the two witnesses that prove the Bible! The only other witness I know of is the internal witness of the supernatural structure of the Bible as revealed in the Bible Wheel. It's really quite ironic. Almost all Christians either reject or are ignorant of the only two authentic witnesses of the supernatural origin of the Bible.

You also fail to understand that all Christians are Preterists with respect to all the prophecies that Christ fulfilled in the first century. Indeed, there would be NO CHRISTIANITY if Christ had not fulfilled those prophecies. Therefore, your "problem" is only with the subset of prophecies that you believe are yet to be fulfilled. And the funny thing about those prophecies is that there is no agreement amongst Futurists as to what is yet to come! It's quite funny when you think about it. The only thing Christians agree upon are a subset of Preterist doctrines that teach about how Christ fulfilled Old Testament prophecies in the first century.

Now I highlighted the point of my last post in red bold because your "response" was not a response at all. I still think my suggestion is the best way to clarify our disagreement. So please answer my question:

Is my understanding of your "explanation" about why Christ predicted the destruction of the Temple buildings correct? If not, why not? Please state your position clearly so that folks will know what you are talking about.

Thanks!

[Rose]

I'm sorry you are unable, at this time, to comprehend truth and even more saddened that others may believe what you teach. We near the last days. In these days, of the many called followers of Christ...there are a "few chosen." They are the firstfruits, they are the apostles, prophets, teachers,the "two witnesses" chosen for the specific purpose of witnessing...the first (fruits) in the last (days).
Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen. Along with the chosen, the two groups of "two witnesses," that are to witness His truth, there are also chosen "two false witnesses" and they too are "at the last."
Matthew 26:60 But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,What I see...and....THIS IS INTERPRETATION...is that the two false witnesses are:



RAPTURE

PRETERISM



.

Hi Whirlwind,


Have you ever noticed in Matt.26:60, that it calls those that testified against Jesus "false witnesses" when in fact their statements are not false at all, but the actual words that Jesus spoke.

Matt.26:60-61 But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses, And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.

In John 2:19-21 Jesus responds to those who are asking for a sign with the words "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up" leaving them with the impression that he was speaking of the stone temple by not answering their question of how he could build up a stone temple in 3 days.

John 2:19 -21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

Blessings,
Rose

[whirlwind]

Hi Whirlwind,


Have you ever noticed in Matt.26:60, that it calls those that testified against Jesus "false witnesses" when in fact their statements are not false at all, but the actual words that Jesus spoke.

Matt.26:60-61 But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses, And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.

In John 2:19-21 Jesus responds to those who are asking for a sign with the words "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up" leaving them with the impression that he was speaking of the stone temple by not answering their question of how he could build up a stone temple in 3 days.

John 2:19 -21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

Blessings,
Rose




No, I never noticed that. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

That raises a question...if they are false witnesses, and God tells us they are, and yet they actually stated something Christ said, then what makes them "false?"

They are as false prophets, teachers, leaders, witnesses (swine) today. They used His Words to crucify Him. Pearls/truth were cast before swine, trampled and then the rending began.


Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

It is interesting that the temple was the subject of the false witnesses.


.
.