Armageddon...A Literal Battle?

[whirlwind]

Many see Armageddon as the culmination of this age, a literal battle with literal forces gathering outside Jerusalem. But, is that true?


Our Father "gives" Satan power over the world and power to battle with the saints. It is a time of being proven:


Deuteronomy 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

We read about this battle in the following verses:


Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

He is given power to overcome and make war but....that doesn't say he did overcome...just that he has power to try.


12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.


When does this happen? What and where is this war Satan wages on the saints?


When......when they shall finish their testimony:


Mark 13:9:11 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony against them. And the gospel must first be published among all nations. But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

What battle......


Revelation 16:16-17 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the Temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done." (19) And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrace before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.



Where.....


Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. (11) And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.


The great city Babylon is not one literal city. She is everywhere. The witnesses are not literally two witnesses...they are many of us, some of which will be killed. Armageddon is not a literal battle....it is a spiritual battle for our souls. That battle is underway!


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[Richard Amiel McGough]

Many see Armageddon as the culmination of this age, a literal battle with literal forces gathering outside Jerusalem. But, is that true?

Yes. It refers to the three and a half your battle that resulted in the destruction of Jerusalem in 66-70 AD.



Our Father "gives" Satan power over the world and power to battle with the saints. It is a time of being proven:
Deuteronomy 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
How would this apply to the date setters? Folks have been making false prophecies about the "end of the world" for nearly two thousand years. They have always been wrong. Always. Always. Always. Always. Always. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Has not God judged all date setters? Is it not therefore a great error to go about date setting? Does it not bring dishonor to God and his Bible?

For example, you honored false prophet "144" - who falsely predicted a "great slaughter" in San Diego in 2008 - with these words:


This is a fascinating post :clap2: I don't yet understand all of it but some deep truths are being shown. What an undertaking.

A few weeks ago I completed a thread about 2009 being "the beginning of the last days," so your post truly caught my eye.

Thank you and many blessings.

There were no "deep truths" shown by 144. He was a raving madman. His posts were absolutely incoherent and meaningless gibberish.

So you are a date setter. Date setters have always been wrong. Why do you persist in such folly? And what about when you are wrong? Will you publicly repent? Will you quit setting dates? Unfortunately, I doubt it, because it seems that once someone begins setting dates they cannot quit, no matter how many times they are proven wrong. They become chronic liars. This is what happened to 144 who was previously banned as BenYisrael for lying about having posted the false prophecies under the pseudonym Watchman232! He lied, lied, and lied again. But you thought he was posting "some deep truths" because he set a date similar to yours.

Please open you mind Judi! Date setting is wrong. It makes a mockery of God and the Bible. If God had wanted to give dates, he would have given dates. He would not rely on all the crazy date setters who have been making false predictions and false time-lines for centuries!

All the best,

Richard

[whirlwind]

Yes. It refers to the three and a half your battle that resulted in the destruction of Jerusalem in 66-70 AD.



:lol:




How would this apply to the date setters? Folks have been making false prophecies about the "end of the world" for nearly two thousand years. They have always been wrong. Always. Always. Always. Always. Always. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Has not God judged all date setters? Is it not therefore a great error to go about date setting? Does it not bring dishonor to God and his Bible?



No.





For example, you honored false prophet "144" - who falsely predicted a "great slaughter" in San Diego in 2008 - with these words:


I continue to honor 144. Our Father is speaking to him and he, as he is to do is sharing with us.




There were no "deep truths" shown by 144. He was a raving madman. His posts were absolutely incoherent and meaningless gibberish.



Your cruel vindictiveness is a wonder to behold. Have you learned nothing from your Biblical studies? Because you don't understand what others teach you consider it to be meaningless. There is much I don't understand but I do recognize those that teach...on both sides of the equation. I recognize them by their fruits. Yours are showing for all to see.




So you are a date setter. Date setters have always been wrong. Why do you persist in such folly? And what about when you are wrong? Will you publicly repent? Will you quit setting dates? Unfortunately, I doubt it, because it seems that once someone begins setting dates they cannot quit, no matter how many times they are proven wrong. They become chronic liars. This is what happened to 144 who was previously banned as BenYisrael for lying about having posted the false prophecies under the pseudonym Watchman232! He lied, lied, and lied again. But you thought he was posting "some deep truths" because he set a date similar to yours.

Please open you mind Judi! Date setting is wrong. It makes a mockery of God and the Bible. If God had wanted to give dates, he would have given dates. He would not rely on all the crazy date setters who have been making false predictions and false time-lines for centuries!

All the best,

Richard


In the words of Doc Holiday in the film Tombstone...."your hypocrisy knows no bounds."


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[Richard Amiel McGough]

Yes. It refers to the three and a half your battle that resulted in the destruction of Jerusalem in 66-70 AD.
:lol:

Yet another empty headed "refutation by smiley."

What are you trying to do, make a mockery of yourself? Quit trying so hard. You succeeded in that endeavor long ago.




How would this apply to the date setters? Folks have been making false prophecies about the "end of the world" for nearly two thousand years. They have always been wrong. Always. Always. Always. Always. Always. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Has not God judged all date setters? Is it not therefore a great error to go about date setting? Does it not bring dishonor to God and his Bible? No.

Wow. A one word response. That's really nothing better than a smiley. Oh well.

You might want to expand on your answer. For example, why do you think it is a good thing to call God a liar by claiming your false predictions were really inspired by Him?




For example, you honored false prophet "144" - who falsely predicted a "great slaughter" in San Diego in 2008 - with these words:
I continue to honor 144. Our Father is speaking to him and he, as he is to do is sharing with us.

Why am I not surprised? Birds of a feather ...

You dishonor God and His Word when you honor an unrepentant serial liar and failed date setter who claims his crazed raving gibberish is inspired by God.




There were no "deep truths" shown by 144. He was a raving madman. His posts were absolutely incoherent and meaningless gibberish. Your cruel vindictiveness is a wonder to behold. Have you learned nothing from your Biblical studies? Because you don't understand what others teach you consider it to be meaningless. There is much I don't understand but I do recognize those that teach...on both sides of the equation. I recognize them by their fruits. Yours are showing for all to see.

It is a great kindness to help a person be free from their delusions.

It would have been a great cruelty to allow his ravings to continue unchecked and unrefuted. You forget, he lied, and lied, and lied again about his identity as the man who made the false predictions about the "catastrophe" in San Diego in 2008. It is neither "kind" nor "Godly" to let wolves eat the sheep, and all LIARS ARE WOLVES, especially when they claim to be speaking for God like you do.

You have placed yourself in this position. You are the one making false statements while claiming to speak for God.

I am serving Truth by exposing your lies and delusions.

But it never had to be this way. All you had to do was respond honestly to my request for answers. But you refused. You twisted words. You claimed divine authority for your personal opinions. You refused to answer over and over and over again. Then you started making false accusations against me, claiming that I did not have evidence for my assertions. So now you are piling lies upon lies.




So you are a date setter. Date setters have always been wrong. Why do you persist in such folly? And what about when you are wrong? Will you publicly repent? Will you quit setting dates? Unfortunately, I doubt it, because it seems that once someone begins setting dates they cannot quit, no matter how many times they are proven wrong. They become chronic liars. This is what happened to 144 who was previously banned as BenYisrael for lying about having posted the false prophecies under the pseudonym Watchman232! He lied, lied, and lied again. But you thought he was posting "some deep truths" because he set a date similar to yours.

Please open you mind Judi! Date setting is wrong. It makes a mockery of God and the Bible. If God had wanted to give dates, he would have given dates. He would not rely on all the crazy date setters who have been making false predictions and false time-lines for centuries!

All the best,

Richard In the words of Doc Holiday in the film Tombstone...."your hypocrisy knows no bounds."

What are you talking about? Where is the hypocrisy in what I wrote? If you are going to accuse me of something, you should at the very least state what your accusation is. As it stands, it appears you are making yet another empty and unsupported accusation.

[whirlwind]

What are you talking about? Where is the hypocrisy in what I wrote? If you are going to accuse me of something, you should at the very least state what your accusation is. As it stands, it appears you are making yet another empty and unsupported accusation.




The hypocrisy of signing with....All the best.



You don't call someone a liar, or someone that dishonors God and then sign...all the best.


That is hypocrisy of the greatest magnitude.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

What are you talking about? Where is the hypocrisy in what I wrote? If you are going to accuse me of something, you should at the very least state what your accusation is. As it stands, it appears you are making yet another empty and unsupported accusation.
The hypocrisy of signing with....All the best.

You don't call someone a liar, or someone that dishonors God and then sign...all the best.

That is hypocrisy of the greatest magnitude.
I understand how you might feel that way. But actually, the phrase should not seem out of place in context. Here is how I ended that post:
Please open you mind Judi! Date setting is wrong. It makes a mockery of God and the Bible. If God had wanted to give dates, he would have given dates. He would not rely on all the crazy date setters who have been making false predictions and false time-lines for centuries!

All the best,

Richard
As you can see, I was appealing to you to open your mind. I really do want the best for you. The problem is that you are refusing to engage me in rational discussion. You are playing word games and refusing to answer simple questions with simple honesty.

Like I've said a dozen times, it doesn't have to be like this. When I first asked you about why Christ predicted the destruction of the Temple buildings, you could have chosen to engage my question with simplicity, honesty, and rationality. But no ... you played an absurd word game and caused total confusion about the "spiritual" vs. the "physical" temple, and after I wasted many hours disputing this with you, you changed your tactic and began proclaiming that you had answered when in fact you had not. Then you posted an absurd "answer" by simply quoting a passage from Luke about the Pharisees trying to trick Jesus, and on and on and on it has gone. All the confusion is created by you to hide the fact that your interpretations of the Bible are indefensible. And that's the biggest joke of all. If you simply said "Good question. I can't answer that. You are right, this is my interpretation, not what the Bible necessarily states" then we could have continued and talked with mutual respect. But you have no room for "other opinions" because you think "your opinion" is "God's opinion."

And that is a grave error.

[whirlwind]

Let's get back on topic, the subject being the last great battle. A participant in this on-going battle is...the beast. Concerning the witnesses, the many "two" witnesses:


Revelation 11:7-8 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


The beast are those that kill the witnesses of God because they are blind and deaf. The killing is figurative and they do it because....


John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor Me.


They think they know the Father and Son but...they don't. There are MANY of them....


Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity..


So, many skirmishes in the battle of Armageddon are seen daily. It is a spiritual battle, of words. God's Words or man's words.

Ephesians 6:12 (666) For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.



.

[whirlwind]

The battle is also mentioned here....


Revelation 13:16-18 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.




Who are those that buy and sell and what is it they buy and sell?


11 Peter 2:1-3 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.




The false prophets, false teachers...the liars that twist truth with their "feigned words" are buying and selling in the marketplace of the world. And....we are their merchandise! These passages are not about literal goods...food and necessities. It is our souls being sought. Are we for sale? Do we listen to them and in doing so take the mark of the beast?



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[Brother Les]

Who did you say was brought together at the Valley of Megiddo?


wikipedia

Today, Megiddo is an important junction on the main road connecting the center of Israel with lower Galilee and the northern region. Therefore, to this day it remains a site of strategic importance as it lies at the northern entrance to Wadi Ara, an important mountain pass connecting the Jezreel Valley with Israel's coastal plain.

Megiddo has been the site of numerous battles throughout history, with the site changing hands many times. Three of the more famous battles include:

Battle of Megiddo (15th century BC): fought between the armies of the Egyptian pharaoh Thutmose III and a large Canaanite coalition led by the rulers of Megiddo and Kadesh.
Battle of Megiddo (609 BC): fought between Egypt and the Kingdom of Judah, in which King Josiah fell.
Battle of Megiddo (1918): fought during World War I between Allied troops, led by General Edmund Allenby, and the defending Ottoman army.
The Book of Revelation mentions apocalyptic military amassment at Armageddon, a name derived from Megiddo. The word has become a byword for the end of the age.

[whirlwind]

Who did you say was brought together at the Valley of Megiddo?


wikipedia

Today, Megiddo is an important junction on the main road connecting the center of Israel with lower Galilee and the northern region. Therefore, to this day it remains a site of strategic importance as it lies at the northern entrance to Wadi Ara, an important mountain pass connecting the Jezreel Valley with Israel's coastal plain.

Megiddo has been the site of numerous battles throughout history, with the site changing hands many times. Three of the more famous battles include:

Battle of Megiddo (15th century BC): fought between the armies of the Egyptian pharaoh Thutmose III and a large Canaanite coalition led by the rulers of Megiddo and Kadesh.
Battle of Megiddo (609 BC): fought between Egypt and the Kingdom of Judah, in which King Josiah fell.
Battle of Megiddo (1918): fought during World War I between Allied troops, led by General Edmund Allenby, and the defending Ottoman army.
The Book of Revelation mentions apocalyptic military amassment at Armageddon, a name derived from Megiddo. The word has become a byword for the end of the age.



They are shadows of what is to come...as all Biblical events. Megiddo is "the gathering place of the crowd."


We gather today, on one side or the other of this great battle. The last words of the Old Testament speak of this gathering.....



Malachi 4:1-2 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear My name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in His wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

4:5-6 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.


The spirit of Elijah...the spirit to speak the Word of the Lord, is in His apostles, prophets and teachers....in His many two witnesses. That is one side..the other has the false prophets teaching. Sides are being drawn, the battle is underway today.



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[Richard Amiel McGough]

They are shadows of what is to come...as all Biblical events. Megiddo is "the gathering place of the crowd."


We gather today, on one side or the other of this great battle. The last words of the Old Testament speak of this gathering.....


Malachi 4:1-2 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear My name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in His wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

4:5-6 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
The spirit of Elijah...the spirit to speak the Word of the Lord, is in His apostles, prophets and teachers....in His many two witnesses. That is one side..the other has the false prophets teaching. Sides are being drawn, the battle is underway today.

More false and unbiblical opinions.

The Bible explicitly states that John the Baptist fulfilled the prophecy of Elijah.

Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. 15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
You really need to grow some "ears" to hear what the Bible plain states.