Think not that I have come to destroy the Law

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

This might be associated with Richards study of the immorality of the law.

In the contextual setting:
Jesus has been baptized and declared by a voice of God as the beloved son. He has revealed himself as the Messiah to the Samaritan woman at the well and been tempted in the wilderness by rulership over all nations. He has begun teaching and healing, choosing his followers and so forth.

As the crowds gather in following; he ascends to a hilltop (mountaintop) and his disciples follow....where he begins teaching the Sermon on the mount.

These are new Peaceful teachings, and focus on the inner person and their spirit. They teach of forgiveness and so forth, and of putting oneself 'out' for the sake of your neighbor/friend etc. They are dissimilar to the instructions that Moses gave.



2And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,

3Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

5Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

7Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

8Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

9Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

10Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

12Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

13Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

14Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

21Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

23Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

24Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.The Peaceful and Serving nature of the sermon and the instruction to the inner man contrast against the promised fierce end to the old conditional, national law and it's people who would continue to sacrifice.

We know that the disciples did not continue in every commandment of the law but they stopped circumcision, they ate 'unclean' foods, and they ceased participation in the rituals and sacrifices of the temple system. Hebrews 10 instructs that to revert back to that sin is to trample the blood of God's covenant under foot.

Thus, I believe the commandments that Jesus wished for his listeners to keep and obey in verse 19 were the attitudes and inner teachings of his sermon of the mount which he had just been delivering.

I believe then that his statement in verse 17,18 that he came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill the law included fulfilling the end of and judgment upon the national covenant as ways to obtain and remain 'blessed'. Isaiah 65:2 says that it is a 'way which is not good'. Paul calls it a gainsaying way in Romans 10:20,21.

Again, the main point is that vs 19 applies to the new laws and instructions of the 'new prophet' while vss 17,18 apply to the fulfillment of the prophesies contained within the law, and especially those about extracting a remnant of faith in HIM and of the latter end. The conditional/corporal way to seek blessing in God and especially of empty sacrifice is still judged as the way not good (Isaiah 65:2) and the way which may seemeth right unto man.

Jesus' opening statements of Blessed be the poor in Spirit contrast against the attitude of self-righteousness in seeking to keep moral or mosaic law.

[Brother Les]

We know that the disciples did not continue in every commandment of the law but they stopped circumcision, they ate 'unclean' foods, and they ceased participation in the rituals and sacrifices of the temple system.


Do we know this? Per Jesus they were obligated to keep every Jot and Tittle... Untill Heaven and Earth Pass. It was the 'Gentiles' who were free from becoming prosylites to a Covenant that was waxing old and fading away. The Jerusalem Church still worshiped at The Temple when Paul came for the second Jersalem conference and James to Paul to take 4 Prosylites to The Temple and Pay for their sacrifices.... Paul did not say "No, I am not under the Mosaic Law and do not have to."



I believe then that his statement in verse 18,19 that he came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill the law includes the fulfilling the violent ending of the national covenant and in maintaining the negative, fruitless, aspect of conditional/corporal ways and humanist rules and laws.

The begining of the Fulfillment comes with verse 17.


Romans 7:
2For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

3So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.


1 Cor 7:
39The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

Do we know this? Per Jesus they were obligated to keep every Jot and Tittle... Untill Heaven and Earth Pass. It was the 'Gentiles' who were free from becoming prosylites to a Covenant that was waxing old and fading away. The Jerusalem Church still worshiped at The Temple when Paul came for the second Jersalem conference and James to Paul to take 4 Prosylites to The Temple and Pay for their sacrifices.... Paul did not say "No, I am not under the Mosaic Law and do not have to."

Just as there was a wandering in the wilderness to remove the people from the memory and practices of slavery to the Egyptians, there was a 40 yr removal of patterns of obedience to mosaic law.

This is the very point. I believe Jesus was instructing his followers to obey his commandments for blessedness and saying that people who taught them would be blessed in the kingdom of Heaven. It was the beginning of teaching of blessing through cultivating individuality and relationship with the Father. This was the characteristics of the New Covenant. No longer would men say; my grandfather ate sour grapes and now I'm not happy. Or, our grandad failed to do the sacrifice and now my wheatfield has disease. Each man would be accountable for their own souls.

Jesus was giving New instruction as the 'new prophet' of Duet 18 who would bring words of LIFE.

It doesnt' say they were obligated to keep every Jot and Tittle...
It says till heaven and earth pass, every jot and title would remain in the law...and be fulfilled including it's latter ends. The mosaic heavens and earth 'passed' in 30-70AD.

I believe 5:19 refers to teaching the New Laws and instructions of Christ who also came to bring the judgment that was contained in the negative, corporal, conditional, inferior way of seeking and recieving blessing. He said; for judgment I have come into the world... AND He, in the length of his normal 75 yr lifespan brought judgment and a Determination.(noun)
The positive way is justification by faith.

In view of the new teachings of God, the maker or life, come to earth and the Peaceable and blessed nature of those teachings, He then says: Think not that I've come to destroy the law; WHICH INCLUDED THE PROPHECIES OF IT'S LATTER END and the prophecies of the deaths of those of that generation who would continuously reject him in favor of their own ways. see Acts 3:22-24.

The law has been fulfilled (and ended) since 70 Ad but we should still teach the Sermon on the mount and the kingdom of (new) heaven.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I find this a fascinating and difficult topic.

On the one hand, it seems very clear that the Old Covenant was finished and done away with by the death of Christ on the cross:
Ephesians 2:11 Therefore remember, that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision " by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands-- 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one, and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.
Likewise, Paul explicitly stated that believers (both Jew and Gentile) had died "to the Law" so their could be married to Christ:
Romans 7:1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? 2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. 3 So then if, while her husband is living, she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress, though she is joined to another man. 4 ¶ Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, that we might bear fruit for God.
But on the other hand, we have the words of Christ that seem to say that the Law would be binding till "heaven and earth" pass away. I can see only two solutions:

1) There are blatant contradictions in the Bible. One "school" of believers were Torah keeping Jews, while the other "school" followed Paul. This is the view of most modern skeptical scholars I would think.

2) "Heaven and earth" ended when Christ was crucified. This is represented by the veil of the temple being torn. The death of Christ, the Mediator between God and man represents the end of the old "heavens and earth". Or something like that ... I don't really know. Like I said, it is a very difficult issue. Some feel that the Old Covenant was only in process of "passing away" and was still "in force" until 70 AD. But this contradicts Hebrews statement that the Old Covenant ended with the death of the Testator. It's really a sticky wicket. I don't know if there is a solution.

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

But on the other hand, we have the words of Christ that seem to say that the Law would be binding till "heaven and earth" pass away. I can see only two solutions:
Where? It says not one jot nor title (not one element) would pass till all be fulfilled. The gracious God would not forsake the neccessary destruction of the old ways nor the confirmation of His existence through the fulfillment of the prophecies, exposing his character and ways, till all were fulfilled.



2) "Heaven and earth" ended when Christ was crucified. This is represented by the veil of the temple being torn. The death of Christ, the Mediator between God and man represents the end of the old "heavens and earth". Or something like that ... I don't really know. Like I said, it is a very difficult issue. Some feel that the Old Covenant was only in process of "passing away" and was still "in force" until 70 AD. But this contradicts Hebrews statement that the Old Covenant ended with the death of the Testator. It's really a sticky wicket. I don't know if there is a solution.
I think Dan 9 could shed some light. As I read the 490 yr covenant, the actions of God fulfilling the covenant promised to EVE in the final week 27AD to 33 AD which includes the indwelling of his representatives were the CAUSE which would effect the ending of the sacrifice and oblation. There is a 'hiphil' verb tense in there which the KJV acurately translates as, 'and he shall CAUSE" the....to cease.

Another point; Remember my postor name. Remember that the book of Deut is the 'law of Moses' which was placed in the ARk. This was the 'heavens of the mosiac covenant and the land of judea was it's domain (earth). AND, the book of Deuteronomy included the 'latter end' judgment upon those who continued in rebellion, disbelief and to go their own way and those who would continue to be His (God's and Christ's) enemies by killing Him in his children. (saints) Thus although the New Covenant was fully enacted in his teaching first, and the cross, and then the indwelling of the disciples.....and the regulations, ordinances and conditional aspects were 'nailed to the cross' AND the temple sacrifice was made desolate, it was permitted to continue to give those within that generation ample time to believe and recieve before their 'latter end' and deaths which was included in the prophesies IN The law.

These were the 'jots and titles' that would not pass from the law till all be fulfilled. As time progressed from the giving of the law till the last of the prophets, additional details would be added which could be included with the 'mother' of the book of Deut. For example, Is 66 records the escape of the 'man child' from Jerusalem before the seige (labor). It records the voice from the temple and city which occured in the last few years in Jerusalem before it's fall. These were not abolished from the law but were fulfilled.
And so forth.
Thus it could be argued that the creation of the new heavens/new earth was a 40 yr process.

Hope this helps
Take care.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

But on the other hand, we have the words of Christ that seem to say that the Law would be binding till "heaven and earth" pass away. I can see only two solutions:
Where? It says not one jot nor title (not one element) would pass till all be fulfilled. The gracious God would not forsake the neccessary destruction of the old ways nor the confirmation of His existence through the fulfillment of the prophecies, exposing his character and ways, till all were fulfilled.

I inferred it from this passage:

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Christ commanded the people hearing him to obey the law.



I think Dan 9 could shed some light. As I read the 490 yr covenant, the actions of God fulfilling the covenant promised to EVE in the final week 27AD to 33 AD which includes the indwelling of his representatives were the CAUSE which would effect the ending of the sacrifice and oblation. There is a 'hiphil' verb tense in there which the KJV acurately translates as, 'and he shall CAUSE" the....to cease.

I assume you are talking about the protoevangelium of Gen 3:15. I think it is a stretch to say that God promised a "covenant" to Eve. At best, it is a "foreshadow." But I agree that this could be the meaning "and he [the messiah] shall CAUSE" the offerings to cease.



Another point; Remember my postor name. Remember that the book of Deut is the 'law of Moses' which was placed in the ARk. This was the 'heavens of the mosiac covenant and the land of judea was it's domain (earth). AND, the book of Deuteronomy included the 'latter end' judgment upon those who continued in rebellion, disbelief and to go their own way and those who would continue to be His (God's and Christ's) enemies by killing Him in his children. (saints) Thus although the New Covenant was fully enacted in his teaching first, and the cross, and then the indwelling of the disciples.....and the regulations, ordinances and conditional aspects were 'nailed to the cross' AND the temple sacrifice was made desolate, it was permitted to continue to give those within that generation ample time to believe and recieve before their 'latter end' and deaths which was included in the prophesies IN The law.

This makes a lot of sense, but I seem to recall this position leads to some apparent inconsistencies with other Scriptures, but I don't recall which right off the top of my head.



These were the 'jots and titles' that would not pass from the law till all be fulfilled. As time progressed from the giving of the law till the last of the prophets, additional details would be added which could be included with the 'mother' of the book of Deut. For example, Is 66 records the escape of the 'man child' from Jerusalem before the seige (labor). It records the voice from the temple and city which occured in the last few years in Jerusalem before it's fall.
And so forth.
Thus it could be argued that the creation of the new heavens/new earth was a 40 yr process.

Hope this helps
Take care.
Yes, it helps a lot. The fact that the "passing away" was both a "one time event" at the cross, as well as something that took 40 years to be fully worked out in history makes a lot of sense to me but there are some problematic areas.

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

[QUOTE=RAM;27097]I inferred it from this passage:

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Christ commanded the people hearing him to obey the law.
This is the very point of this thread. I believe the breaking of any of these 'least' commandments is referring to the new "commandments', instructions and principles for blessedness in Matt 5:2-16 which contrasted against the corporal way of the mosaic covenant.

Dont' go thinking [though] that I've come to stop the end of the law, nor nullify it's inferiority, it's curse and 'latter end'.... I've not come to Destroy but to 'fulfill' it's latter end. Elswhere he says; he has come for judgment.

AND within the timeframe of His lifespan, he did bring the fulfillments of the prophets of and against the mosaic law.


Christ commanded the people hearing him to obey the law.
With this I disagree. I believe Christ was commanding people to obey and teach others HIS teachings and words of 'inner laws" as the 'new Prophet'.
For the law came by Moses [old prophet] but[contrast] GRACE AND TRUTH came by Jesus Christ.

Elswhere he says.. someone greater than Moses is here.

A person can't rebell against, disbelieve or judge the Good.. (God) due to the apparent immorality of the mosaic law, because God himself proclaimed it as inferior and established only for it's temporal and contrasting purposes.


I assume you are talking about the protoevangelium of Gen 3:15. I think it is a stretch to say that God promised a "covenant" to Eve. At best, it is a "foreshadow."Yes, the protoevangelion.

What law of sin/death was Paul referring to in Rom 8:2?


I dont' think it's a stretch, but I believe it is in fact "the covenant" of Dan 9:27 of the final week of 27-33 AD. It was previously expressed as 'my covenant' to the individual Abraham in Gen 12:3, as he was called to leave teh babylonian counterfeit rituals and religious slavery, and then also to Noah, but originally promised as a 'seed' of the woman with an implied outcome of ending the effects of the conditional test of the Garden. Thus, the 'seed' in coming from a virgin would be from the Creator and thus would be empowered to cancel the very conditional law that he himself established there...

ONe thing that I gleaned recently from Barnabus (and is repeated by Paul) is the idea of worship/Celebration on Sunday not being represented of the first day of the week and of the resurrection, but the 8th day and of a New Beginning, as those in faith in their creator come to earth are a NEW CREATION... i.e...a garden of themselves...

Mattew Henry's commentary,before the futurist (gap), went into pretty good detail about the connection between the promise of a virgin born THY (Eve's) 'seed' of the virgin woman (Mary) and 'the covenant' of Dan 9 fulfilled by God incarnate.

The 'gap' in Dan 9 was also referred to by Ireneous' as their chilaist beliefs insisted on a yet future end to satisfy the 6000/7000 yrs.

Furthermore, in Dan 9, in the previous context, Daniel is seemingly concerned about God's keeping or fulfilling his covenant of Mercy in light of the fact that the 70 yr captivity is coming to an end and the house's of Israel, Judah have no direction to bring on that covenant or the circumcision of the heart in deut 30:10ff. His confession required in Deut 30:1-5 brings on that direction and promise of a decree and a return to the land in preparation for it's fulfillment.


But I agree that this could be the meaning "and he [the messiah] shall CAUSE" the offerings to cease.

That is the way I understand it. The actions and occurances of the Messiahs 70th week of 7 yrs including his indwelling of his disciples fulfilled the items of vs 24 AND cause the effects of the latter end and cessation [stoppage] of the sacrifice and oblation. His indwelling also established the justice of equating the act of killing the saints as the same as continuing to rebell against and disbelieve Christ and the truth of God. Dan 7 says that the judgment SAT (stood firm and took effect) and the favor was given to the Saints of faith in the Son of man...


Yes, it helps a lot. The fact that the "passing away" was both a "one time event" at the cross, as well as something that took 40 years to be fully worked out in history makes a lot of sense to me but there are some problematic areas.
Just as the mosaic covenant was a 40 yr process from the passover sacrifice to crossing the Jordan and conquest of Jericho. It set the patterns to verify and confirm the new heavens (ordinances) and new earth (domain) of the NEW prophet who spoke as if with the very words of God.

May the Spirit continue to lead unto all truth.
Take care.

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

[QUOTE=Brother Les;27089]Do we know this? Per Jesus they were obligated to keep every Jot and Tittle... Untill Heaven and Earth Pass. It was the 'Gentiles' who were free from becoming prosylites to a Covenant that was waxing old and fading away. The Jerusalem Church still worshiped at The Temple when Paul came for the second Jersalem conference and James to Paul to take 4 Prosylites to The Temple and Pay for their sacrifices.... Paul did not say "No, I am not under the Mosaic Law and do not have to."
I call Heb 10 which indicates a 'sin' to continue in blood sacrifice after coming to the knowledge of the truth; thereby trampling the blood of the covenant under foot. (first century primary context)

I call Peters vision that it is ok to eat what was formerly 'unclean'.

Jesus told the [Samaratin] woman at the well that the time was coming and now was when true believers would not worship in this mountain or that city, but would worship in Spirit and truth.

If the disciples continued to worship at the temple it may have just been a gathering spot; not sure and not actual 'worship'. And again, I think there is a gradual seperation implied. Peter didn't recieve the vision of the clean and unclean at Pentacost but a few yrs later.



The begining of the Fulfillment comes with verse 17.
Thanks I corrected it.


Romans 7:
2For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

The sacrifice was desolate from the cross through the consummation. (Dan 9:26, 27.

3So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

REFERRING TO SPIRITUAL COVENANTS AND SPIRITUAL ADULTERY
4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

6But now [IN 55-60 AD NOT AFTER 70 AD] we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.


Good VERSES AND GOOD SECTION OF ROMANS.

[Brother Les]

EndtimesDeut32/70AD, Blessings to you.

When I have time I will walk you through your errors in relation to the transition period(s).

From the first Passover to Joshua leading 'the Children' (of those who went into the Wilderness) in 'The Land'. (As the type). To the Sacrifice of Jesus/God (Passover) and Him (Jesus/God) taking 'the Children' (those of the REAL transition period) into Beulah Land. From Sinai to the Land (OC) and Pentecost to The Land, were Betrothals to the Next Covenantal Marriage. But we must remember that the 'Former' Husbands Contracts (Covenants) had to be Fulfilled, before the 'New Marriage could happen.

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

EndtimesDeut32/70AD, Blessings to you.
But we must remember that the 'Former' Husbands Contracts (Covenants) had to be Fulfilled, before the 'New Marriage could happen.
There is so much progressive learning and I've recently picked up on the marriage Feast of Matt 25 (I think) being fulfilled in the 'Beulah land' (Pella) as you call it. Those who killed the ones sent out to invite the others to the feast can only refer to the killing of the apostles.

Thus although I don't disagree with what you've posted here, neither do I agree that Jesus was telling his Jewish disciples that the were to keep every jot an title of the law when he told them that they were all to keep the very least of these commandments.

As noted; I believe vs 19 is a continuation of vs 2-16 with vs 17 & 18 being a parenthetical explaination that every jot and title (every element and prophecy) based in the Deuteronomic law and it's prophets (Acts 3:23) would continue to all be fulfilled including its judgment, the destrctions and the sword of Deliverence from oppression. This was foretold first I think in Deut 18 when it was said that it would come to pass that alll within the nation who would not listen to the 'new prophet' would have their lives required of them. This was reported by Peter in Acts 3:22-24.

Thus, Jesus wasn't telling them to keep 'every jot and title' of the law and those commandments till the marriage feast; but telling them to keep and teach these 'least' commandments and spiritual principles which he had begun teaching them AND which were actually Contrary to the conditional blessings sought by corporally and condtionally keeping the mosaic law.

I DO think/believe that the jewish believers were to at least respect the feasts and festival (times and seasons), since the New Covenant would be verified and progressively enacted with them through those patterns.

Since the time period between 30 and 70 AD is within one lifespan, AND since circumcison was performed on the 8th day, we likely dont' have any record of jewish disciples instructing other jewish discples in this issue. The ordinances and the law seperating the jew from greek were nailed to the cross in favor of the 'new... forgiven man' as you noted.

As you noted; time may limit responses.

[Brother Les]

EndtimesDeut32/70AD
Just as there was a wandering in the wilderness to remove the people from the memory and practices of slavery to the Egyptians, there was a 40 yr removal of patterns of obedience to mosaic law.


The removal of memory and practice only happened when those going into the wilderness DIED.... The Reproach of Egypt was still on them even AFTER they had all DIED in The Wilderness. The Same is the Effect from The Cross To The Holocaust of AD70.



This is the very point. I believe Jesus was instructing his followers to obey his commandments for blessedness and saying that people who taught them would be blessed in the kingdom of Heaven. It was the beginning of teaching of blessing through cultivating individuality and relationship with the Father. This was the characteristics of the New Covenant. No longer would men say; my grandfather ate sour grapes and now I'm not happy. Or, our grandad failed to do the sacrifice and now my wheatfield has disease. Each man would be accountable for their own souls.

Jesus was giving New instruction as the 'new prophet' of Duet 18 who would bring words of LIFE.


His 'Commandments' as a 'New Prophet'? What did Jesus/Joshua say? "Love God and Love Your Neighbor".... With in these ARE the First Five and The Last Five of The Mosaic Laws Ten Commandments. Jesus should NOT be considered a 'New' Prophet, for two very important reasons. 1) He was 'there' from the begining (John 1:1-3) and. 2) Only the 'one' making 'a' Covenant can 'Fulfill' a Covenant.... ie. it was Jesus (The Son/Sun) that was the 'Passover' angel and the ONE who made the Mosaic Covenant (Betrothal) on top of mt. Sinai.



It doesnt' say they were obligated to keep every Jot and Tittle...
It says till heaven and earth pass, every jot and title would remain in the law...and be fulfilled including it's latter ends. The mosaic heavens and earth 'passed' in 30-70AD.

To break even the smallest tittle or jot was enough to be condiumned by the whole Law of Death. "Heaven and Earth", were The People, The Place, and all the 'Elements' of it. You error in the narrowing of the 'Heavens and Earth to only the 'Mosaic', as what was to be 'Judged' was the 'Worlds' and 'Ages' from AD70 back to Genisis 1:1.



more to come later.

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

[QUOTE]His 'Commandments' as a 'New Prophet'? What did Jesus/Joshua say? "Love God and Love Your Neighbor".... With in these ARE the First Five and The Last Five of The Mosaic Laws Ten Commandments. Jesus should NOT be considered a 'New' Prophet, for two very important reasons. 1) He was 'there' from the begining (John 1:1-3) and. 2) Only the 'one' making 'a' Covenant can 'Fulfill' a Covenant.... ie. it was Jesus (The Son/Sun) that was the 'Passover' angel and the ONE who made the Mosaic Covenant (Betrothal) on top of mt. Sinai.
Yes, but the covenant made through moses was a negative/shadow/pattern covenant called the 'adminstration of death', inferior, and not the good way (Is 65:2). Joshua, yes was a type, but an antitype at the same time.

Who is the 'new prophet' of Deut 18:15-21 and Acts 3:22-24.?

Is Grace and Truth contrasted AGAINST the laws of Moses or added to it?
For the law came by Moses; But Grace and truth by Jesus Christ.

It is contrasted Against.

Take Care;

[Brother Les]

EndtimesDeut32/70AD
Yes, but the covenant made through moses was a negative/shadow/pattern covenant called the 'adminstration of death', inferior, and not the good way (Is 65:2). Joshua, yes was a type, but an antitype at the same time.


Isaiah 65 and 66 are perfect chapters to see that YHWH/Jesus is giving the Kingdom and NC to a New People, of a New Name, and destroying the old H&E, because the OC people broke the OC. Who are these people.... they are both 'Israel' (Sons of God)



EndtimesDeut32/70AD
Who is the 'new prophet' of Deut 18:15-21 and Acts 3:22-24.?
Joshua/Christ.....
But, A man who speaks as a 'Prophet' is only full of empty words until what he says comes to pass. Judgment...


Duet 18:
15The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

16According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.

17And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.

20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?



18I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

19And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Acts 3:
22For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

23And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 24Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.



Is Grace and Truth contrasted AGAINST the laws of Moses or added to it?
For the law came by Moses; But Grace and truth by Jesus Christ.

It is contrasted Against.

Grace was present during the law that came by Moses. There were many Saints under the alter waiting for the Day of The Lord.


It is contrasted Against.


If you want to show the contrasts, then you must take them to their limits.

When the first born of all Egypt died and Passover came(The Cross), the Mosaic Covenant promise (Betrothal) of the Mosaic Covenant Marriage had yet to be given. What 'Law' was in effect from Passover to Sinai? The Law of Egypt. What Law was in Full Effect, but waxing old and Fading away from Sinai to the crossing over in the Terra Firma 'Promised Land'? The Coveanantal Law of Egypt. Many of the 'people' were physically dying to the Law of Egypt during the wondering.... but Spiritually they were all under that curse, wheather they were physically alive or dead.

From The Cross (passover) to Pentecost, what law of in Full effect? it was the Law of Death and that law of death continued until the passing over into the Promised Land, 40 years later. The Death cloud was there and it was not taken away until the old creation was taken away, which made way for the New Creation to come into its' fullist.

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

These are both minor and major points of difference.
But I don't wish to take time right now to continue an in depth discussion/debate. Some of it sounds like it's similar to some of the Don Preston perspective.

The 'salvation' accomplished in the 65-70 is the 'salvation' of preservation of the believing in Christ group by the removal of the ungodly oppression and persecution of what had become a false and babylonian style religion. (especially after the cross) As for the 10 commandments; The Egyptians had a very similar set of commandments which numbered into the 20's and perhaps beyond. I dont' know if Love for their concept of God was part of those or not.

Here is a verse I mentioned to Richard in the morality of the law thread. It's in the context of the new covenant later in the chapter. It indicates that the New covenant would have new statutes and commandments .... freedom, individual and moral accountability to God and the Holy Spirit etc..


Ez 37:24 And David my servant (JESUS) [shall be] king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: (JESUS/Holy Spirit) they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.



But, A man who speaks as a 'Prophet' is only full of empty words until what he says comes to pass. Judgment...

With this I would partly disagree although he came for judgment also. He was verified as new prophet by his own words (John 5:46) and through his Good and re-creative works. His resurrection from the dead verified his claims as co-equal to the Father which is the blasphemy for which the Pharisees had him killed and which he was judged NOT Guilty by the Father.

He called his disciples to do the work of God by believing on HIM DURING his teaching ministry; not after the end of the temple and destruction on the unbelieving and murderous people.

The Covenant of Life and freedom promised from Eden to come through eve WAS fulfilled (I believe) from 27-33 AD. This time included His Good teachings, his sacrifical atonement of love to cancel the law of sin/death and his indwelling of his disciples with God himself (in Spirit)

The actions of the historical establishment of that time caused the pre-prophesied happenings and effects of the end of the temple and city.

Thus I believe that the 'new heavens' (jesus ordinances) and the new earth (the temple of the indwelling soul, mind and spirit) were established in that final week of 27-33 AD. We were a 'new creation' from that point onwards. But, the old heavens and earth, though now DESOLATE as Jesus told the pharisees and others were not removed and openly judged for all the world to see until the what would have been the end of Jesus normal lifespan.

AND thus even though new heavens were there and being formed beginning with His teaching, the old heavens and old earth would not pass till all the the prophesies about Him and about the violent end of the old heavens and earth would be fulfilled.

I think this verse of Matt 5:19 has been erroneously applied as if referring to the continuint to obey the law of moses when in fact it refers to the teaching, works, words and Spirit of Jesus. This has detrimental effects to those who do not realize that the 'new heavens and earth' were new ordinances and new domain. That perspective would obviously imply that Jesus teachings were added to the law, not contrast against.

Jesus additionally administered the end of the mosaic age during what would have been his normal lifespan.

This question about what Matt 5:19 refers to is quite and interesting and important discussion.

This is more in depth than I wished to at this time,
Take care, God bless and I trust the Spirit to lead either to any different perspectives that he desires for us.

[Brother Les]

EndtimesDeut32/70AD
The Covenant of Life and freedom promised from Eden to come through eve WAS fulfilled (I believe) from 27-33 AD. This time included His Good teachings, his sacrifical atonement of love to cancel the law of sin/death and his indwelling of his disciples with God himself (in Spirit)


Jesus additionally administered the end of the mosaic age during what would have been his normal lifespan

How did He 'administer' the end of the Mosaic Age during His Normal (physical?) Life Span. He was Born under The Mosaic Law of Death and He died under the Mosaic Law of Death. The Betrothal of the Covenant of Life (the 'Promise were given at Sinai) was given at Pentecost. Is this not After Jesus rode in The Cloud to the Heavenlies? There is no Covenant of Life until The Bride marries the Groom.



This question about what Matt 5:19 refers to is quite and interesting and important discussion.

This is more in depth than I wished to at this time,

It is a very deep subject of Redemption, Salvation, and Resurrection. But know that it is the Jewish Cultus that had to keep The Law and The Prophets until The Day of The Lord. The Gentiles were not under/divorced from the OC Law and thereby did not have to adhere to it during the transition period. Also NOTE: The New Covenant could not come into being in its' fullness by on the Jews alone, the Gentiles (nations) had to come in at the very same time of the Marriage of The Body (Church/ Assymbly/ Election.

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

How did He 'administer' the end of the Mosaic Age during His Normal (physical?) Life Span.

Through the mind of the leaders of Israels enemies (the romans) as he said in Deut 32:42.
NKJV. This chapter is the song of Moses and describes the last generation of the mosaic covenant. And as the deliverer who came to zion (Isaiah 59; Rom 11:26) in and through the Roman armies... Israels enemies. Through them he took vengeance on HIS and His saints enemies.
See also Is 61:2,3; Is 59:16ff; Is 66.

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

[QUOTE=Brother Les;27114] He was Born under The Mosaic Law of Death and He died under the Mosaic Law of Death.[COLOR="Red"]
But he was declared 'not guilty' of blashphemy by his resurrection and in his first ascent to the father...(after talking with Mary or Martha).




But know that it is the Jewish Cultus that had to keep The Law and The Prophets until The Day of The Lord. The Gentiles were not under/divorced from the OC Law and thereby did not have to adhere to it during the transition period.
The point to be made in this thread is that I believe this is not what Jesus is teaching in Matt 5:19. If it is taught elswhere I don' know, but I dont' think so.

Jesus is bringing NEW, not additional, instructions, principles and "least' (serving) commandments. But then he also says: .... don't think that i've come to abolish the law for those who would not believe on His words and teaching. He came not to abolish but to fulfill every jot and title (every prophecy and element) about him including fulfilling the latter end judgment(s). Then in vs 19 he reaffirms observance of these "least" (servant) commandmants (which he has just spoken) and to teach them to others.

Again, we note that Peter was told that it was fine to eat what was formerly 'unclean'. The seperation between 'clean' and 'unclean' were ending as was the seperation between jew and non-jew. And we note that to participate in any of the blood sacrifices was to trample the blood of the Creator shed on the earth under foot. These two points alone defeat your opinion that the jewish believers were to continue in the law "till all be fulfilled".

Again, these are not the commandments which Jesus is telling them to obey in Matt 5:19; but these 'least' commandments.

It's likely that the disciples and followers didn't initially and fully understand all that he was saying.

[Brother Les]

Originally Posted by Brother Les
He was Born under The Mosaic Law of Death and He died under the Mosaic Law of Death.
EndtimesDeut32/70AD
But he was declared 'not guilty' of blashphemy by his resurrection and in his first ascent to the father...(after talking with Mary or Martha).


His Resurrection (to his true being) was before He was ever put in the Ground, even before he was taken off of The Cross. His Bodily Physical Resurrection, three days later, (as He said) was the sign of Jonas. But in the eyes of the Temple Cultus leadership he was very guilty of the written Law, for the Prophets for told that their eyes would be blind and their ears would not hear



Brother Les
But know that it is the Jewish Cultus that had to keep The Law and The Prophets until The Day of The Lord. The Gentiles were not under/divorced from the OC Law and thereby did not have to adhere to it during the transition period EndtimesDeut32/70AD.
The point to be made in this thread is that I believe this is not what Jesus is teaching in Matt 5:19. If it is taught elswhere I don' know, but I dont' think so.


Read carefully about the second Jerusalem conference and the diolog between James and Paul. Read about the Judiezers and what they were trying to do. Read about when Paul is standing before King Agrippa and read slowly what he says. Try to understand the Fullness of the types and Anti-types. Try to understand The Feasts of The Lord. Four were fully fulfilled through the pages to the written word, but the other three had to be fulfilled to bring in the completion of the NC Marriage. All of the books render those events to be happening, 'soon', 'never', 'at the door', 'this generation shall not pass'.



COLOR="red"]Jesus is bringing NEW, not additional, instructions, principles and "least' (serving) commandments. But then he also says: .... don't think that i've come to abolish the law for those who would not believe on His words and teaching. He came not to abolish but to fulfill every jot and title (every prophecy and element) about him including fulfilling the latter end judgment(s). Then in vs 19 he reaffirms observance of these "least" (servant) commandmants (which he has just spoken) and to teach them to others.


Jesus brought nothing new that the prophets of old had not already said. As a matter of fact He says, "I am sent only to The Lost Children of Israel'. These words would seem to indicate that Jesus was NOT sent to and for the Salvation of Gentiles.




Again, we note that Peter was told that it was fine to eat what was formerly 'unclean'. The seperation between 'clean' and 'unclean' were ending as was the seperation between jew and non-jew. And we note that to participate in any of the blood sacrifices was to trample the blood of the Creator shed on the earth under foot. These two points alone defeat your opinion that the jewish believers were to continue in the law "till all be fulfilled".
Sorry they do not 'defeat' the course of Gentile and Jewish seperation. Scripture says (to Jews) that if any part of The Law is Kept then all of it must be kept, but if you break away, then do not keep any of it....

The 'Modern' Christian 'Religion' keeps many aspects of the Mosaic Law and so are guilty of profaning it all..ie. 'Ten Commandment... Tithing.. ect.


Blessings

[Rose]

Matt.5:17-18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Matt.22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy Godwith all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Luke 24:44-45 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, The Law and the Prophets were incomplete until Jesus came, and by His death fulfilled all the law and the prophets. Up until that point it was impossible to fulfill the requirements of the law merely by keeping the whole law, if it even could be done.

Jesus came not to make the law right by adding to, or taking away from it, but to rectify the law through fulfillment….Love your neighbor as yourself.


Blessings,
Rose

[Brother Les]

Matt.5:17-18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Matt.22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy Godwith all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Luke 24:44-45 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, The Law and the Prophets were incomplete until Jesus came, and by His death fulfilled all the law and the prophets. Up until that point it was impossible to fulfill the requirements of the law merely by keeping the whole law, if it even could be done.

Jesus came not to make the law right by adding to, or taking away from it, but to rectify the law through fulfillment….Love your neighbor as yourself.


Blessings,
Rose


Fulfillment of the 'Law and The Prophets' were done by the Testor(s) dying.... The testors dying did not 'start' the NC, it started the process of ending the OC. The Husband killed by His wife on The Cross (murder). This kicked in the fulfilling terms of the Marriage Contract. The Terms of Blessings and Curses (settling up the estate debits and credits with 'payment). the Blessings (for the Election) of a 'Promised Coming' of the NC Marriage and the world that came with it. The Curses that were spelled out in the OC contract to their utmost. One of those terms was the killing of the Harlot wife (because she was the daughter of a Priest and a murderer).

[Gil]

Quote Less> [ " Fulfillment of the 'Law and The Prophets' were done by the Testor(s) dying.... The testors dying did not 'start' the NC, it started the process of ending the OC. The Husband killed by His wife on The Cross (murder). This kicked in the fulfilling terms of the Marriage Contract. The Terms of Blessings and Curses (settling up the estate debits and credits with 'payment). the Blessings (for the Election) of a 'Promised Coming' of the NC Marriage and the world that came with it. The Curses that were spelled out in the OC contract to their utmost. One of those terms was the killing of the Harlot wife (because she was the daughter of a Priest and a murderer).]

Gil > Your absolutely right Less.
The 'Testor' however was not Jesus Christ nor his Father. Without having to go through the entire Sinai account, when the Law was given by an Angel to Moses. Paul indentifies with this in his telling of how Hagar and Ishmael were related to the Law and the Mount Sinai story. He then states that it was not an Angel but Christ Jesus himself who gave him the true Gospel of Mercy through Faith alone.
The subject being, who then was the Giver and who would be the Testor of the Old Covenant of Death which was of the Law.
Angels as you know are messengers.
You must decide who this Angel was who gave the Law.
Remember that it was written on the second set of tablets ,after the first set was broken.

As to fulfillment of every jot and tittle, it was to be so until the Law was fulfilled.
The fulfillment of the Law is death.

As to breaking the Law through the works of man, Jesus even said that if you even think the thought and do not act upon it ,it is as if you had already committed the act.
He didn't cut them much slack. He moved it into the mental realm of the Psyche.

It was Jesus in the flesh who would bring an end to the Old covenant at the cross.
Jesus in the flesh had the Spirit of the Father dwelling within him, up and till the last moments before he would die in the flesh.
Satan did enter him in the wilderness to tempt him but then departed.
Leaving out terms of divinity be they Good or Evil Spirits, Jesus took on the Spirit of Man in the Flesh through which he could be made corrupt with the sins and evil which Paul said was within the Flesh. ( I think he meant the Conscious Mind though, but it is all within Paul's Christology. )
How the cross impacted all flesh that was pre cross and post AD70 is detailed in Pauline language.
The relatedness of Marriage of individuals and Wholes in regard to male/female and Spirit/Soul was made more clear through Paul's Greek conceptual thinking than the Hebrew concepts of the body ,as individuals or Wholes.
Jesus in the totality of the flesh was the Testor by proxy but Jesus Christ would be the first flesh man to be raised from the dead. It is Jesus Christ who was the first of many that be of the Spirit of Life .
The fulfillment of Grace and Truth through Faith is Life.

Gil

[Brother Les]

Gil > Your absolutely right Less.

I have a problem with the way you spell my name....:nono:



Gil
As to fulfillment of every jot and tittle, it was to be so until the Law was fulfilled.
The fulfillment of the Law is death.

The Mosaic Covenant was a Marriage Contract.

The Death to the Testor (Jeus Christ/the Messenger/the Word), the one who made the Contract did not 'Fulfill' the Contract by dying to it. There was another party to The Contract. What made the 'Fulfilling' of the (Mosaic) Marriage Contract was WHEN The Terms of the Contract were carried out. The Husband (Jesus Christ) carried out the contract ending of the terms when Judgement Came about. Part of the Judgments proclaimed by the 'Law and Prophets' were the Judgment Death of the Harlot Wife. Did the wife Die at the time of The Cross? No She did not, but we all know when she died for her Harlotry.... When the Mosaic Marriage Contracts Judgment Came....unpon the Nation and the People and The Temple, ie. the Whole Mosaic World was destroyed.



It was Jesus in the flesh who would bring an end to the Old covenant at the cross.


It is Jesus at His Coming in The Glory of The Father that would bring an End to the Old Covenant at The Holocaust.

[Rose]

The First or Old Testament began with the shedding of blood, and ended with the destruction of the Temple in AD 70.

Heb.9:18-21 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
The Second or New Testament began with the shedding of blood which was the death of the Testator, and has no end.

Heb.9:14-16 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

Blessings,
Rose

[Brother Les]

The Second or New Testament began with the shedding of blood which was the death of the Testator, and has no end.


Heb.9:14-16 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Blessings,
Rose
__________________
Rose, I think over time, many have come to read this verse in a way that is out of order. 'We assume' that the Death of Christ was for the New Testament. But read it....And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 'where a testament is, there must also of necessisty be the death of the testator".

'We know that the Testator is Jesus Christ. But He died at the Hands of His Harloty Wife. He (in the flesh) was born and He died under the Old Mosaic covenant Marraige contract. Under The Law, when the Husaband is dead then the Wife is free to marry another. This 'being free to marry another', opens up the way for (the Elect) to be 'Betrothed' and then 'marry' another. What came about when Jesus Christ Died on the Cross as The Testator of the Mosaic Covenant marriage Contract, was that the full Terms of the contract came into Full Force. ie. The Wife had to go through 'probate Court'/Muder Court to get her do, 'Judgments' from being married to the man (Jesus/YHWH) that she killed. The 'Terms' of the OLD Marriage Contract made by Jesus/YHWH (as Testator) when it came to its' fullness' (when He died) were of a New Creation of Blessings and Cures through a New Covenant Marriage economy.

[Gil]

Howdy Les,

Quote Les: [Rose, I think over time, many have come to read this verse in a way that is out of order. 'We assume' that the Death of Christ was for the New Testament. But read it....And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 'where a testament is, there must also of necessisty be the death of the testator".

'We know that the Testator is Jesus Christ. But He died at the Hands of His Harloty Wife. He (in the flesh) was born and He died under the Old Mosaic covenant Marraige contract. Under The Law, when the Husaband is dead then the Wife is free to marry another. This 'being free to marry another', opens up the way for (the Elect) to be 'Betrothed' and then 'marry' another. What came about when Jesus Christ Died on the Cross as The Testator of the Mosaic Covenant marriage Contract, was that the full Terms of the contract came into Full Force. ie. The Wife had to go through 'probate Court'/Muder Court to get her do, 'Judgments' from being married to the man (Jesus/YHWH) that she killed. The 'Terms' of the OLD Marriage Contract made by Jesus/YHWH (as Testator) when it came to its' fullness' (when He died) were of a New Creation of Blessings and Cures through a New Covenant Marriage economy.
Brother Les
__________________

Gil > Closer, but it is not the way that they looked at spirits, souls, and bodies.
Jesus the flesh man and Jesus Christ resurrected both had the same Spirit within him.
It was the Soul of mother Israel as a whole who died at the cross through Jesus in the flesh as well as the Spirit of Man that she was in wedlock with.
Both the Husband and the Wife had died.
Jesus Christ would take on a virgin bride to wife.
In other words, ADAM (both man and woman as Adam and Eve) were
to be replaced in the New Covenant that was sealed not by blood but with the fire of the Shekinah Glory of the Father.
It is why Paul calls Jesus Christ the New Adam. He would seek a new virgin bride to replace Eve that they be one in marriage through the new covenant.
You end up with a new ADAM, both male and female as it was in the beginning before the fall.

Where you coming up with the Jesus/YHWH connection?
The only way that it would work is if you say that YHWH and Jehovah are one of the same while Jesus was in the Flesh.
I don't think YHWH/Yahwah is the Holy Spirit and the Father and giver of life to his Son Jesus Christ.

The Harlot didn't die at the destruction of the walled city Jerusalem and her Temple but at the cross.
The New Creation was the New Man ADAM. It was a work of his Father.
The Hebrews seen their Walled city and the Temple as their own Heaven and Earth upon the Land. One built by hands. It was the dwelling place of the Spirit of Man.
Her people were the soul ,heart that were within her walls.
At the destruction in AD70, the new heaven and earth was revealed and it was to be in a Spiritual/mental environment not built with hands.
It is a new Mind and conscience of man in the Spirit.
The new dwelling place of God the Father and his only begotten Son that is now within his bosom as the same seed of promise.


Gil
-------------

[Brother Les]

Gil
Where you coming up with the Jesus/YHWH connection?


Both the Husband and the Wife had died.

Was Jesus the maker of the Mosaic Covenant Marriage Contract or was it YHWH? Jesus could not Die for a Contract that He did not make. He/? was the Testator of the OC Marriage contract and could be the only one to die For that contract


The Harlot didn't die at the destruction of the walled city Jerusalem and her Temple but at the cross.

In Revelation the Harlot declared," I am no widow". Meaning that she thought that Her Husband (YHWH or was that Jesus or Both... must be 'both')was still alive. The Husband died on The Cross, she died 40years later at the Holocaust.


It was the Soul of mother Israel as a whole who died at the cross through Jesus in the flesh as well as the Spirit of Man that she was in wedlock with.

The 'evil' 'soul' of the Temple Cutlus Israel was still alive and well as long as the Temple stood. The Election were told to "come out of Her".


It is why Paul calls Jesus Christ the New Adam. He would seek a new virgin bride to replace Eve that they be one in marriage through the new covenant.

Christ was the "Last Adam". The New Covenant Creation Betrothal to Christs Church/Body/Election/Asmbly happened at Pentecost (not The Cross). The Marriage Happend 40 years later after the Betrothal period.


The New Creation was the New Man ADAM

Glad you see that the 'New Creation' happened in the First Century, but the 'New Creation' was always said to be 'Heaven and Earth'.


The Hebrews seen their Walled city and the Temple as their own Heaven and Earth upon the Land.

Don't forget to add The People.... ie. The People, The Place, all the 'Elements' of the old Covenant Creation were their 'Heaven and Earth'.


At the destruction in AD70, the new heaven and earth was revealed and it was to be in a Spiritual/mental environment not built with hands.

Interesting that the Prophets said that those of the New Creation would build houses and have children.... Immaculate Conception would you say?
Why are you so confused on this?

[Gil]

Howdy Les,

Quote: Les > [ Why are you so confused on this? ]

Gil > I'm really not :winking0071:
Will re-read what you said and try to put down my thoughts
that relate to this in a more concise way.
Had to go to the dictionary to look up some of the legal terms.
It is apparent though that we are looking at this from different
points of view. (not opinions).


Gil