What will we be doing in the kingdom of heaven?

[CWH]

Since no one wants to answer my question on what we will be doing in the kingdom of heaven, I have decided to start a thread and discuss about it. What is life like in the kingdom of heaven? Note that the kingdom of heaven is on earth as it is in heaven. For a start, I will add a few list of things that I think we will do in the kingdom of heaven and what life is like in the kingdom of heaven if we are counted worthy to be in the kingdom of heaven. Feel free to add to the list of what you think we will be doing in the kingdom of heaven or what kind of life we will lead in the kingdom of heaven. To do nothing but laze around looking at Jesus or watching the world goes by in heaven till eternity to me is absurd.

Rejoicing and no more sadness
19And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

Ageless and no more infant mortality
20There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Build houses, planting, self-sufficiency (Note: Ii is different from toiling)
21And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. 22They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

Birth without toil, blessed offspring of God's people
23They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them. 24And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

No hurt or destruction
25The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

Learn from the Lord, worship God
Micah 4:2
Many nations will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.” The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

No marriage

No use of money

Apostles as judges over the kingdom of heaven
28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

No diseases

No death

No crime

No sin

Harvesting righteous souls
44 “The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field.
45 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls. 46 When he found one of great value, he went away and sold everything he had and bought it.

The Parable of the Net
47 “Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48 When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Many Blessings.

[Brother Les]

Note that the kingdom of heaven is on earth as it is in heaven.
Well, Cheow.... here we are :thumb:.


How do you like it?


:pop2:

[CWH]

Well, Cheow.... here we are :thumb:.


How do you like it?


:pop2:

Thanks for being such a nice and supportive preterist. I take it that you agree with my assertions... that calls for celebration....Cheers! However, you will be much nicer if you could add to my list of what you think we will do in the kingdom of heaven and what life is like in the kingdom of heaven if we are counted worthy to be in the kingdom of heaven.

Many Blessings.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Ageless and no more infant mortality
20There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Hey there Cheow,

I think we have a BIG PROBLEM here. Did you not notice that the text says that the child shall >>>DIE<<<<< ???? You can't be saying that this speaks of heaven, since later in the same post you said there is no death in heaven. How is it possible that you failed to see this?

All the very best,

Richard

[CWH]

Hey there Cheow,

I think we have a BIG PROBLEM here. Did you not notice that the text says that the child shall >>>DIE<<<<< ???? You can't be saying that this speaks of heaven, since later in the same post you said there is no death in heaven. How is it possible that you failed to see this?

All the very best,

Richard

You have created another BIG PROBLEM here. Have you realized a strange statement, a child shall die 100 years old? A child is defined as about 3 to 10 years old, so how can a child be 100 years old, a centenarian? I think we have discussed that before in which I gave a scenario that what if one have an accident in the kingdom of heaven such as a fall and his skull cracked and his brain came out, can this person be considered as died or can he be revived again? Clinically he is considered as dead but he could easily be revived isn't it, just like being raised from the dead by Jesus? That's why I believed the meaning "a child shall die a hudred years old" probably means that a hundred years old man would still be considered as a child in terms of age even if he should die in an accident, he would be revivied.

A good reference is the two witnesses in Revelation in which they prophesied and were killed and in 3 days time were revivied.


Many Blessings.

[gem]

Hi Cheow,
This is a good question! There seems to be much said in scripture about the kingdom of heaven here on earth, but what will it be like after we leave earth and live eternally with the Lord?
g.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hi Cheow,
This is a good question! There seems to be much said in scripture about the kingdom of heaven here on earth, but what will it be like after we leave earth and live eternally with the Lord?
g.
I agree. All the metaphors are written in terms of our experience here on earth ...

[Beck]

The Spiritual aspect of our earthly walk in the kingdom of God, described by Jesus as 'the kingdom of heaven is like unto'....So what will we be doing? Well, plowing the soil to plant seeds of the kingdom, tending the vineyard, storing up treasures (thats the one I like)...

[gem]

'…Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven,'
So, do you think that all the descriptions in scripture, of the kingdom of heaven, as it should be on earth, would be a depiction of what it is like in heaven?
thanks,
g.

[CWH]

“…Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven,”
So, do you think that all the descriptions in scripture, of the kingdom of heaven, as it should be on earth, would be a depiction of what it is like in heaven?
thanks,
g.


I believe that is what you are looking for gem...what is the kingdom of heaven like?:

1. Matthew 5:3
“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Author's note: a person that is poor in spirit is humble, not proud or arrogant; and is a God-fearing person. People with such attributes belongs to the kingdom of heaven.

2. Matthew 5:10
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Author's note: persecuted because of righteousness means that those who suffered for the cause of fighting against wrongdoings and evilness will be rewarded with the kingdom of heaven.

3. Matthew 5:19
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Author's note: another role for those in the kingdom of heaven is to teach others about God's commandments and to practice God's commandments.

4. Matthew 5:20
For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Author's note: You must surpassed in righteousness in order to enter the kingdom of heaven. Note also that Jesus mentioned the Pharisees and not the Sadducees which suggests that the Pharisees were the better and more righteous ones compared to the Sadducees....no wonder the Sadducees were gone by the end of the 1st century whilst the Pharisees or their traditions survived to this day.

5. Matthew 7:21
[ True and False Disciples ] “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Author's note: Only those who did the will of the Father in heaven will enter the kingdom of heaven. The will of the Father is for us to try to save all souls. (i.e."these little ones").

6. Matthew 13:24
[ The Parable of the Weeds ] Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field.
Author's note: "Sowed good seeds" means build righteousness in people and encourages people away from evil.

7. Matthew 13:31
[ The Parables of the Mustard Seed and the Yeast ] He told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field.
Author's note: To enter into the kingdom of God is to preach the gospels so that everyone got to know God and grow in His righteousness.

8. Matthew 13:33
He told them still another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into about sixty pounds of flour until it worked all through the dough.”
Author's note: to encourage the growth of God's people so that righteousness increases through such small effort as the preaching of the gospel is a criteria for entering the kingdom of heaven.

9. Matthew 13:44
[ The Parables of the Hidden Treasure and the Pearl ] “The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field.
Author's note: God is happy for one that matures in His righteousness and if he finds a fine righteous person, He will do everything to get him into the kingdom of heaven.

10. Matthew 13:45
“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls.
Author's note: God is looking for fine righteousness people for work in his kingdom and will do everything to "hire" him.

11. Matthew 13:47
[ The Parable of the Net ] “Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish.
Author's note: God is harvesting for good righteous people in this world and will destroy evil people.

12. Matthew 18:3
And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Author's note: Unless you become innocent and almost sinless like little children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

13. Luke 9:62
Jesus replied, “No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.”
Author's note: those who regrets or backsldes into his evil ways after doing the works of God is not fit to enter into the kingdom of heaven.

14. Matthew 18:4
Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Author's note: The humblest person who serves God's people is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

15. Matthew 18:23
“Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.
Author's note: God will reward his servants according to the good works they have done...faith, righteousness, kindness, charity, mercy etc. in the kingdom of heaven.

16. Matthew 19:12
For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”
Author's note: another indication of those who are pure and not defiled by women? another indication of no marriage in heaven?

17. Matthew 20:1
[ The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard ] “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard.
Author's note: God's mission is to hire good righteousness people for the klingdom of heaven.

18. Matthew 22:2
“The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son.
Author's note: God's plan is to provide salvation through his son so that whoever accepts and believes in Him will enter the kingdom of heaven.

19. Matthew 25:1
[ The Parable of the Ten Virgins ] “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.
Author's note: One must be prepared with good works in order to enters into the kingdom of heaven.

20. Mark 4:26
[ The Parable of the Growing Seed ] He also said, “This is what the kingdom of God is like. A man scatters seed on the ground.
Author's note: those who accepts the gospels and matures and bears fruits with it i.e get others to do so, will enters the kingdom of heaven.

22. Luke 18:29
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God
Author's note: those who have given up eveything to do the works of God, will receive much much more than what he has given up.

23. John 3:3
Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again. ”
Author's note: one must repents and "turn into a new leaf" in order to see the kingdom of God.

24. John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
Author's note: "born of water" means human for we are made of 65% water and we must also be endowed with the Holy Spirit in order to enter the kingdom of heaven.

25. Mark 10:25
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
Author's note: It is diffcult for the rich to enter into the kingdom of heaven if their focus is on riches and possessions and not God. You cannot serve both mammon and God.


Just my 2 cents worth, hope my interpretations of the verses above are correct.

Let's all continue to seek the kingdom of heaven and His righteousness and all these things wil be added unto you....ASK.

Many Blessings.

[Gil]

Just a couple of questions .

Cheow, Are you saying that the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God are one of the same?
A Kingdom needs a King. God is the head of one Kingdom .
Is God or Jesus Christ head of the other, The Kingdom of Heaven?

Was this Kingdom of Heaven realized while Jesus was here upon the Earth
before he ascended or in your futuristic approach is the Kingdom of Heaven
still being awaited to be made manifest in a physical manner when you say
it is also then that Jesus Christ will return to be it's King.

Gil

[CWH]

Just a couple of questions .

[QUOTE]Cheow, Are you saying that the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God are one of the same?

Yes, they are. If you compare Matthew and Luke same passages, Matthew always used the kingdom of heaven whereas Luke almost always used the kingdom of God. This is just one example, there are many others:

Matthew 13:11
He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

Luke 8:10
He said, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, “‘though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.’



A Kingdom needs a King. God is the head of one Kingdom .
Is God or Jesus Christ head of the other, The Kingdom of Heaven?

Since the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God are the same, you can apply both God and Jesus as the king of the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God. You seems to be suggesting that God is king in the kingdom of God and Jesus is the king in the kingdom of heaven. I would say that it is used interchangeably. Gospel of John said that if you have seen Jesus, you have seen God the Father. Is that a difficult issue?


Was this Kingdom of Heaven realized while Jesus was here upon the Earth
before he ascended or in your futuristic approach is the Kingdom of Heaven
still being awaited to be made manifest in a physical manner when you say
it is also then that Jesus Christ will return to be it's King.
The kingdom of heaven was prepared since the beginning iof the world:
Matthew 25:34
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
Only with the death and ascension of Jesus was Jesus made the king of the kingdom of heaven/God. Jesus is currently king of the kingdom of heaven/God and He will come back again for the final judgement with His angelic hosts. Since Jesus and the angels always appeared to the apostles and the people in the physical form on earth, I would expect Him and the angels to return back to earth in their physical forms. The Bible never indicates anywhere scripturally that that Jesus and the angels appeared to the apostles and the people in their invisible forms but always in their physical forms. Only preterism among all the Christian denominations said that Jesus returned invisibly in AD 70 so as to force fit into their AD 70 doctrine. It would sounds better if they said that Jesus returned physically in AD 70 but unfortunately it wasn't recorded historically.

Many Blessings.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Just a couple of questions .

Cheow, Are you saying that the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God are one of the same?

Yes, they are. If you compare Matthew and Luke same passages, Matthew always used the kingdom of heaven whereas Luke almost always used the kingdom of God. This is just one example, there are many others:

Matthew 13:11
He replied, 'Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

Luke 8:10
He said, 'The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, '‘though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.’


Excellent answer Cheow! :woohoo:

One of my big pet peeves has always been the erroneous distinction between the "kingdom of heaven" and the "kingdom of God."

Richard

[Gil]

Cheow and Richard,

Thanks for the replies.
I guess that you would find the following, that I had
in my notes from years ago to be erroneous.



The Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God

It is within the word "kingdom", like the Greek basileia, that has regard to sovereignty rather than territory, and to the sphere of its exercise rather than to its extent.
Using the word "kingdom" in this sense, and in that which is conveyed in its English termination "dom", which is short for dominion, we note that the former expression, "the Kingdom of heaven", occurs only in Matthew, where we find it thirty-two times .
The Kingdom of God occurs only five times in Matt. (6:33; 12:28; 19:24; 21:31, 43).
But in the parallel passages in the other Gospels we find, instead, the expression "the Kingdom of God" (e.g. cp. Matt. 11:11 with Luke 7:28).
The explanation of this seeming difference is that the Lord spoke in Aramaic; certainly not in the Greek of the Gospel documents. (1)
Now "heaven" is frequently used by the Figure Metonymy (of the Subject), for God Himself, Whose dwelling is there. See Ps. 73:9. Dan. 4:26, 29. 2Chron. 32:20. Matt. 21:25. Luke 15:21 ("I have sinned against heaven" is thus contrasted with the words "and in thy sight"). John 3:27.
It is suggested is that in all the passages where the respective expressions occur, identical words were spoken by the Lord, "the Kingdom of heaven"; but when it came to putting them into Greek, Matthew was Divinely guided to retain the figure of speech literally ("heaven"), so as to be in keeping with the special character, design, and scope of his Gospel (a) ; while, in the other Gospels, the figure was translated as being what it also meant, "the Kingdom of God".

Thus, while the same in a general sense, the two expressions are to be distinguished in their meaning and in their interpretation, as follows :--

I. The Kingdom (or Sovereignty) of HEAVEN
1. Has Messiah for its King;
2. It is from heaven; and under the heavens upon the earth;
3. It is limited in its scope;
4. It is political in its sphere;
5. It is Jewish and exclusive in its character;
6. It is national in its aspect;
7. It is the special subject of Old Testament prophecy;
8. And it is dispensational in its duration.

II. The Kingdom (or Sovereignty) of GOD
1. Has God for its Ruler;
2. It is in heaven, over the earth;
3. It is unlimited in its scope;
4. It is moral and spiritual in its sphere;
5. It is inclusive in its character (embracing the natural and spiritual seeds of Abraham, "the heavenly calling", and the "Church" of the Mystery). Hence:
6. It is universal in its aspect;
7. It is (in its wider aspect) the subject of New Testament revelation;
8. And will be eternal in its duration.

(a) Each of the Four Gospels has its own special character and design.
These are not to be determined by human ingenuity or on modern lines, but to be gathered from the Structure.
This shows that they may be regarded as being the completion of the Old Testament, rather than the beginning of the New. In any case they have nothing whatever to do with the founding of "the Church", or with the beginning of "Christianity". They are the four distinct presentations of the Messiah, and together form one perfect whole.

[CWH]

Cheow and Richard,

Thanks for the replies.
I guess that you would find the following, that I had
in my notes from years ago to be erroneous.



The Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God

It is within the word "kingdom", like the Greek basileia, that has regard to sovereignty rather than territory, and to the sphere of its exercise rather than to its extent.
Using the word "kingdom" in this sense, and in that which is conveyed in its English termination "dom", which is short for dominion, we note that the former expression, "the Kingdom of heaven", occurs only in Matthew, where we find it thirty-two times .
The Kingdom of God occurs only five times in Matt. (6:33; 12:28; 19:24; 21:31, 43).
But in the parallel passages in the other Gospels we find, instead, the expression "the Kingdom of God" (e.g. cp. Matt. 11:11 with Luke 7:28).
The explanation of this seeming difference is that the Lord spoke in Aramaic; certainly not in the Greek of the Gospel documents. (1)
Now "heaven" is frequently used by the Figure Metonymy (of the Subject), for God Himself, Whose dwelling is there. See Ps. 73:9. Dan. 4:26, 29. 2Chron. 32:20. Matt. 21:25. Luke 15:21 ("I have sinned against heaven" is thus contrasted with the words "and in thy sight"). John 3:27.
It is suggested is that in all the passages where the respective expressions occur, identical words were spoken by the Lord, "the Kingdom of heaven"; but when it came to putting them into Greek, Matthew was Divinely guided to retain the figure of speech literally ("heaven"), so as to be in keeping with the special character, design, and scope of his Gospel (a) ; while, in the other Gospels, the figure was translated as being what it also meant, "the Kingdom of God".

Thus, while the same in a general sense, the two expressions are to be distinguished in their meaning and in their interpretation, as follows :--

I. The Kingdom (or Sovereignty) of HEAVEN
1. Has Messiah for its King;
2. It is from heaven; and under the heavens upon the earth;
3. It is limited in its scope;
4. It is political in its sphere;
5. It is Jewish and exclusive in its character;
6. It is national in its aspect;
7. It is the special subject of Old Testament prophecy;
8. And it is dispensational in its duration.

II. The Kingdom (or Sovereignty) of GOD
1. Has God for its Ruler;
2. It is in heaven, over the earth;
3. It is unlimited in its scope;
4. It is moral and spiritual in its sphere;
5. It is inclusive in its character (embracing the natural and spiritual seeds of Abraham, "the heavenly calling", and the "Church" of the Mystery). Hence:
6. It is universal in its aspect;
7. It is (in its wider aspect) the subject of New Testament revelation;
8. And will be eternal in its duration.

(a) Each of the Four Gospels has its own special character and design.
These are not to be determined by human ingenuity or on modern lines, but to be gathered from the Structure.
This shows that they may be regarded as being the completion of the Old Testament, rather than the beginning of the New. In any case they have nothing whatever to do with the founding of "the Church", or with the beginning of "Christianity". They are the four distinct presentations of the Messiah, and together form one perfect whole.\

Thanks Gil,

This is something new to me and worth studying. On the other hand, Jesus doesn't seemed to differentiate between the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God; both seems to have the same meaning. Just to show some examples directly from the mouth of Jesus:

1. Matthew 5:3
“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

2. Luke 6:20
Looking at his disciples, he said: “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.




3. Matthew 18:3
And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 18:2-4 (in Context) Matthew 18 (Whole Chapter)

4. Luke 18:17
Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

5. Mark 10:15
Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”



6. Matthew 19:14
Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

7. Luke 18:16
But Jesus called the children to him and said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.

8. Mark 10:14
When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.




9. Matthew 19:23
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.

10. Luke 18:24
Jesus looked at him and said, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!

11. Mark 10:23
Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!”


An even amazing passage occurs in Matthew 19, in which both kingdom of heaven and kingdom of God are used.....doesn't make sense for the difficulty of the rich to enter both the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven ?:

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”



Many Blessings.

[Gil]

Cheow,

Quote Cheow:

An even amazing passage occurs in Matthew 19, in which both kingdom of heaven and kingdom of God are used.....doesn't make sense for the difficulty of the rich to enter both the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven ?:


23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.'

Gil > Because they are not the same.
Let me see if I can dig out some more background information that
may clarify it a little.

I could give scriptural references, but they wouldn't make much sense
if it is unfamiliar territory.

Gil

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Cheow,

Quote Cheow:

An even amazing passage occurs in Matthew 19, in which both kingdom of heaven and kingdom of God are used.....doesn't make sense for the difficulty of the rich to enter both the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven ?:


23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

Gil > Because they are not the same.
Let me see if I can dig out some more background information that
may clarify it a little.

I could give scriptural references, but they wouldn't make much sense
if it is unfamiliar territory.

Gil
Hey there Gil,

What do you think about poetic parallelism in this case? We see this throughout the OT and do not think to interpret the parallel terms as indicating different things. For example should we think that the poor are a different group of people than the needy in Proverbs 31:20?

She stretcheth out her hand to the poor;
yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.

Personally, I see no justification at all for distinguishing between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven. Indeed, such distinction seems contrary to the facts. This false distinction is exemplified by the false distinctions in the list of 8 comparative points in your previous post:

1. Has Messiah for its King;
1. Has God for its Ruler;
This is a false distinction. Messiah is ruled by God, so when Messiah is king God is ruling. Also, it implies that Messiah is not God, so it is anti-Trinitarian. This doesn't mean it is necessarily wrong, but it does mean that it contradicts traditional Christian doctrine.

2. It is from heaven; and under the heavens upon the earth;
2. It is in heaven, over the earth;
Where do we get the idea that the "kingdom of God" is IN heaven wheras the "kingdom of heaven" is UPON the earth? God is everywhere, and so is his "kingdom." This is another false distinction. Furthermore, these "distinctions" seem like splitting hairs which is a typical error of the Dispensational interpretation. Scripture was not written in a hair-splitting way, and it should not be interpreted in a hair-splitting way. It is the hair-splitting that has led to the vast majority of historical "sects" or "divisions" which in Scripture are called "heresies." (Or should we say "hairesies"?) :p

3. It is limited in its scope;
3. It is unlimited in its scope;
Where does the Bible teach that the Kingdom of Heaven is "limited in its scope"? It seems like this distinction is being imposed to fit a preconceived Dispensational doctrine.

4. It is political in its sphere;
4. It is moral and spiritual in its sphere;
This is a false distinction. The beatitudes are the premier "moral" teachings of Christ. In Matthew they are taught in reference to the Kingdom of Heaven. In Luke, the Kingdom of God. And I must add that I find it outrageous that anyone would seek to make the Kingdom of Christ into a political entity.

5. It is Jewish and exclusive in its character;
5. It is inclusive in its character (embracing the natural and spiritual seeds of Abraham, "the heavenly calling", and the "Church" of the Mystery).
This is the fundamental error of Dispensationalism raising its ugly head. It teaches that there is a division in the people of God between the Jews (who are seen as special because of their carnal descent) and everyone else. It is the most direct contradiction of the Gospel.

6. It is national in its aspect;
6. It is universal in its aspect;
The Kingdom of Heaven is "natural"???

7. It is the special subject of Old Testament prophecy;
7. It is (in its wider aspect) the subject of New Testament revelation;
This is another example of the fundamental error of Dispensationalism. The OT prophecies were of Christ and His Church. That is why they are quoted throughout the NT in reference to Christ and His Church. And that is why there is no statement anywhere in the NT about a future restoration of national Israel.

8. And it is dispensational in its duration.
8. And will be eternal in its duration.
So there will be an end to the "Kingdom of Heaven"? That don't sound right ....

As you can see, I have some pretty strong disagreements with the whole Dispensational paradigm. I hope that doesn't offend. I look forward to discussing it more. A good place to start might be to find a verse that refers to the Kingdom of Heaven that most definitely DOES NOT apply to the Kingdom of God. That might help clear things up.

All the best,

Richard

[CWH]

Hey Gil,

BTW, excellent post RAM :-)

I have found an article on the web that proves that the kingdom of heaven is the same as the kingdom of God with comparisons to the 3 gospels. The reason why Matthew used kingdom of heaven instead of the kingdom of God was that his gospel was addressed to the Jews which may got offended if the sacred word of "God" was used whereas Luke's gospel was written for the Greeks in which the use of the kingdom of God did not have such sensitive issue.

http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/157.htm

Your distinction between the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God is like saying there are two kingdoms.... I wonder which kingdom we will be going to if we are counted worthy to go to heaven?

It's like saying there is a distinction between the Son of God and the Son of Man or that there is a distinction between Roman Emperor and Caesar or between His Majesty and His Excellency. I am quite convinced that the meaning of the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God is the same; it's just a use of the words to suit certain situations, sensitivities or courtesies.

Many Blessings.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hey Gil,

I have found an article on the web that proves that the kingdom of heaven is the same as the kingdom of God with comparisons to the 3 gospels. The reason why Matthew used kingdom of heaven instead of the kingdom of God was that his gospel was addressed to the Jews which may got offended if the sacred word of "God" was used whereas Luke's gospel was written for the Greeks in which the use of the kingdom of God did not have such sensitive issue.

http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/157.htm

Your distinction between the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God is like saying there are two kingdoms.... I wonder which kingdom we will be going to if we are counted worthy to go to heaven?

It's like saying there is a distinction between the Son of God and the Son of Man or that there is a distinction between Roman Emperor and Caesar or between His Majesty and His Excellency. I am quite convinced that the meaning of the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God is the same; it's just a use of the words to suit certain situations, sensitivities or courtesies.

Many Blessings.
That's a really good article Cheow. It is an excellent resource that should settle this question for most folks since it lists all the parallels where it is totally obvious that "Kingdom of God" = "Kingdom of Heaven."


:signthankspin:


ETA:

Oops! I spoke to fast. The parallel passages listed in the article are great, but the definition of the "kingdom" is totally wrong and unbiblical. Here is what it says:
The Kingdom of Heaven is not the same thing as heaven. When the New Testament uses the phrase “the Kingdom of Heaven” it is not referring to heaven. Instead it is referring to the Millennial Kingdom which has been ordained from heaven, that is, from God -- hence the interchangeability between "Kingdom of Heaven" and "Kingdom of God." Unfortunately too many people have heard a great deal of preaching and teaching about heaven as the hope of a Christian and consequently think that “the Kingdom of Heaven” and “heaven” are the same. They are not. The Kingdom of Heaven is a kingdom from heaven, not a kingdom in heaven. God reigns supreme in heaven. Heaven is the locus of His authority – the point from which He rules the universe. The words “of heaven” then are referring to the origin of this Kingdom. It is the place from which the Kingdom is coming, not a destination to which we are going. So we see that although the Kingdom of Heaven is heavenly in character and origin, it is not the same thing as heaven. To avoid the confusion between heaven and the Kingdom of Heaven, and since the term "Kingdom of God" occurs much more frequently in the Bible, it is the "Kingdom of God" that is preferred when describing the future kingdom in which Jesus will reign as king.
This is ludicrous. The Kingdom of heaven was "at hand" two thousand years ago! It has nothing to do with any "Millennial earthly kingdom" that is nowhere taught in Scripture anyway. Furthermore, Jesus is on his throne now and is ruling as king now so the statement that there will be a "future kingdom in which Jesus will reign as king" is likewise absurd and unbiblical.

Or that's how it seems to me anyway. Just speaking my mind. No offense intended.

All the best!

Richard

[Gil]

Just came back to check the post.

Rich Quotes :

[ One of my big pet peeves has always been the erroneous distinction between the "kingdom of heaven"
and the "kingdom of God."

This is a false distinction. Messiah is ruled by God, so when Messiah is king God is ruling. Also, it implies that Messiah is not God, so it is anti-Trinitarian.

Furthermore, these "distinctions" seem like splitting hairs which is a typical error of the Dispensational interpretation. Scripture was not written in a hair-splitting way, and it should not be interpreted in a hair-splitting way. It is the hair-splitting that has led to the vast majority of historical "sects" or "divisions" which in Scripture are called "heresies." (Or should we say "hairesies"?)

Where does the Bible teach that the Kingdom of Heaven is "limited in its scope"? It seems like this distinction is being imposed to fit a preconceived Dispensational doctrine.

This is a false distinction. The beatitudes are the premier "moral" teachings of Christ. In Matthew they are taught in reference to the Kingdom of Heaven. In Luke, the Kingdom of God. And I must add that I find it outrageous that anyone would seek to make the Kingdom of Christ into a political entity.

This is the fundamental error of Dispensationalism raising its ugly head. It teaches that there is a division in the people of God between the Jews (who are seen as special because of their carnal descent) and everyone else. It is the most direct contradiction of the Gospel.

This is another example of the fundamental error of Dispensationalism. The OT prophecies were of Christ and His Church. That is why they are quoted throughout the NT in reference to Christ and His Church. And that is why there is no statement anywhere in the NT about a future restoration of national Israel.

As you can see, I have some pretty strong disagreements with the whole Dispensational paradigm. I hope that doesn't offend. I look forward to discussing it more.

The Kingdom of heaven was "at hand" two thousand years ago!

The Kingdom of Heaven is "natural"??? ]

Gil > No, National.

Gil > I never get offended with scripture, No offence taken Rich .

Cheow Quote: I am quite convinced that the meaning of the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God is the same; it's just a use of the words to suit certain situations, sensitivities or courtesies.

Gil > That's fine Cheow, I'm not here to push any agendas.

Gil

[Gil]

Now my curiosity is up.
Cheow and Richard,

What do you think dispensation means, relative to your use of
dispensationalism?

Gil