Do we require material things in heaven?

[CWH]

Do we require material things in heaven? Obviously Yes! But there must not be greed and God must be first in your life. So do spiritual beings in heaven...

Matthew 6:19
“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Matthew 6:*28
“And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Matthew 7:7
“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
***9 “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Luke 12:*13
Someone in the crowd said to him, “Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.”
*14 Jesus replied, “Man, who appointed me a judge or an arbiter between you?” 15 Then he said to them, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; life does not consist in an abundance of possessions.”
*16 And he told them this parable: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest. 17 He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’
***18 “Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. 19 And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.”’
***20 “But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’
***21 “This is how it will be with whoever stores up things for themselves but is not rich toward God.”
*22 Then Jesus said to his disciples: “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. 23 For life is more than food, and the body more than clothes. 24 Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds! 25 Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to your life? 26 Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?
***27 “Consider how the wild flowers grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you, [B]not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 28 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today, and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, how much more will he clothe you—you of little faith! 29 And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it. 30 For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your Father knows that you need them. 31 But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well.
***32 “Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Matthew 19:27
Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”
*28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[e] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

...hmm, no wonder the apostles were so motivated!....giving up short-term pleasures for future long-term gains? I see nothing wrong to crave for material things so long as God is first in your life...and do not be GREEDY. Your Father in heaven knows you need them...Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

Many Blessings.

[Brother Les]

Do not Futurest say that Jesus will come back physically as we will all live in a new constituted physical world? Will you 'live' in a world that has houses and where you will have children? What does the Bible say about The New Heavens and New Earth and its physical relm? Building Houses and planting vinyards AND HAVING CHILDREN.....


Isa 65:
17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

18But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

19And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

20There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

21And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. 22They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

23They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them. 24And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

25The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.



Have you not read the Scriptures? or is it just your understanding of such that needs to be worked on. Your futurest mindset clouds your present reality.

[CWH]

Those passages that you mentioned are futurist's passages....thanks for being a preterist with a futurist mindset, that's what all preterists should be. Instead of limiting themselves to the past and get themselves fixated at AD 70, it is more worthwhile to look beyond the past, present and future for God is yesterday, today and tomorrow. God is not God of yesterday but who was, who is and who is to come....too profound?

Futurist believe in a new heaven and a new earth for the old heaven and old earth has passed away meaning that this new world is a golden age of human development in all fields. A physical world in which there is no sin, no diseases, no death, no crime... a world in which all will live, enjoy and work happily. I don't believe in a golden world in which we lazed around and do nothing but sit and look at God's face everyday.
I have asked a question but receive no response from the preterists, what will we be doing in the kingdom of heaven? If iiving in the kingdom of heaven is to laze around and look at Jesus face everyday till eternity; you can count me out. God would not give us fishes everyday but He would rather give us a fishing rod and teach us how to fish. In other words, God will not spoon-feed us but will teach us His ways on how to live and to live life abundantly. Please explain what Matthew 19: 7 means if you think my futurist mindset have cloud my reality:

Matthew 19:27
Peter answered him, 'We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?'

*28 Jesus said to them, 'Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[e] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.


I know preterist will have a hard time explaining the passage above.. the renewal of all things was AD 70?.... does spiritual beings in heaven require fields, houses, children, wives, siblings, parents, a hundred fold?

Many Blessings.

[Brother Les]

How many preachers today proclaim that 'when Christ comes again' that 'we' will build houses, that 'we' will plant vineyards, that we will be having CHILDREN after He has come? None that I know of.

Isaiah says that will happen.

How many preachers 'today' proclaim that God will destroy 'Heaven and Earth' and create a new one Because of The Sins of Irael and the Breaking of The Mosaic Law?

not very many, but that is what God says He will do and Why He will do it.


The Bible should be clear enought to you that the New Heaven and New Earth Covenant Creation Happens in the Last Days of the Mosaic Law and the World of that Law.

God does not destroy 'Heaven and Earth' because of the Sins of Gentiles, He destroys 'Heaven and Earth' because of the Sins of Mosaic Covenant Israel.

That Mosaic Covenant and the world that it represented is no longer around and Israelite peoples of that Covenant are no longer around.

If you lack such understanding of the Temple cultis Religion and its transition to worshiping YHWH on a individual bases with no Temple made of stone, then you seem to be outside of the relm and thought of true Israel. Whom is made up of a remnent of the twelve OC coveneantal tribes and prosylites into the Covenantal Body. This revolves around the Sons of God whom are the Sons of Light. The tares (sons of Darkness) have always been among the wheat. (ooops, symbolism and metephoric language, you must have a hard time understanding that.)

The Creation of Genesis is not about a physical creation but covenantal. The Mosaic Covenant Creation is not about a physical Creation, but convenantal.
The Messianic Covenant new Creation is not about physical Creation, but Covenantal. We live in a physical world and always will, but our Covenant is on a Spiritual plane. This understanding seems to be lost to you.

[CWH]

The important thing that we should know is that God is looking for people with righteousness to inherit the kingdom of heaven. It's like an employer looking for suitable people to run the company. The earth is like a farm in which God could harvest such righteous people. Many examples are found in the Bible in which righteous people were saved and allowed to multiply: Enoch who was taken up, the Great flood that destroyed all living things on land except 8 righteous people of Noah and is children so that the world will breed more righteous people, Abraham and his offsprings will be like the sands of the sea, the parables of Jesus such as the net, the tares and the wheat etc., the final judgement, the millennium and the second death were all about getting and screening righteous people to inherit the kingdom of heaven....do you understand all these?

Many Blessings.

[Brother Les]

Do you understand that Righteousness is not accounted to an individual until the 'Coming' of Christ? You can never be Righteous by belief, you are Righteous by Judgment. What made those whom the Bible say are Righteous? Faith. But The Law came and said none are righteous and all deserve death. Death reins where there is not Redemption, Salvation And Resurrection. And these do not come until The Day of The Lord.

[Gil]

Quote Cheou:

[ Matthew 19:27
Peter answered him, 'We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?'
*28 Jesus said to them, 'Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[e] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first. ]
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Gil > That which is Spiritual and that which is Physical need to be understood
In there proper format.
The Old Creation which was both created and Bara'ed in six days before God rested from all his work was a physical work with both God and the Earth participating in the form of a union as co-workers .
It was a progressive event which was made complete with Man in the Flesh.
Man in the flesh was the goal or apex of the creative event.
The Earth was given Life , formed and covered that Flesh Man would have a dwelling place. All was within the plan and purpose of God the Father.
All that occurred within the Garden story in the forming of the Flesh Man was within a setting where the Dust of the Earth was the essence of the substance which would be made manifest as completed flesh bodies given as coverings for Adam and Eve when they were taken out, emerged from the womb of the Garden. A paradise where they wanted for nothing .
The analogy of a child being formed within the womb of her Mother.
The Old Creation was seen to be The Body of the Flesh Man himself before his separation into Adam and Eve.
The Old Creation was ADAM.
Adam and Eve would continue the work of the earth whom life was given by God.
It was now their domain and they would have dominion. They would be the keepers and husbandman .
The New Creation is not what you think it to be.
It is not the heaven nor earth that we moderns see as the Earth within the Cosmos.
For that matter, neither was the Old Creation.

The New Creation was the Christ, the Last ADAM.
The Old Heaven and Earth was the dwelling place of God the Father who was as Life given to the Earth, and the Earth/Land itself.
God (Life) was found to be within the Earth, and all living things would come of the dust of the Earth through her, the Womb of all living things including Man.
The dwelling place of God was in the beginning, within the Earth.
Heaven was seen to be within the Earth, not somewhere in the expanse of the universe or above it.
The Earth was the womb were Bara'ing took place.
The Story of Man who desired a relationship with God and God who desired a relationship with Man would follow the line of thought which was to be seen
as Male/Female relationships.
Spirit and Souls progressing ever forward From the Old Creation to the New Creation.
From that which was the Flesh Man to He who would come of the Spirit of God ,the New man to be, The man of the Spirit, his Son Jesus who would become the Christ.

The Body of Death and sin was of the children of Israel beginning in the wilderness of Sinai and her covenant was the Mosaic.

You ask , do we require material things in Heaven?

Your confusing the Kingdom of God the Father with the Heaven
That is within the Earth.
Best develop a newer concept of Heaven.
Heaven was always considered to be the dwelling place of God.
In the beginning the dwelling place of God was within the Earth.
As far as man is concerned that concept has not changed, as Paul
would have it.

We as Christians are the new heaven and earth and as Paul would say, are of the Spirit even if we now are found to still be within bodies of Flesh.
We are no longer of the flesh but of the spirit.
As long as we remain in this flesh body we need everything that anyone needs to sustain our life.
The treasures we seek are not earthly, but heavenly.

The Children of Israel built for themselves a Garden made with their own hands.
They placed within it a Temple were their God would have a place to dwell.

Jesus and then Paul would move the dwelling place of God back to where it was in the beginning. Within the earth.
This flesh body of ours is but an extension of the Earth and the dust thereof.
The dwelling place of God and the spirit of man are now within the Mind.

We are now being transformed by the Spirit of the Father , in that we are becoming a living seed with the image of his son within us.
As Paul would say, we are all ( each individual ) a body of Christ.
Paul nor the Hebrews looked at corporeity in the same way as us moderns.

The Church is not the BOC. It was never looked at by Paul in this fashion.

GIL
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Quote Brother Less :

{ [ How many preachers today proclaim that 'when Christ comes again' that 'we' will build houses, that 'we' will plant vineyards, that we will be having CHILDREN after He has come? None that I know of. Isaiah says that will happen. ]

[ How many preachers 'today' proclaim that God will destroy 'Heaven and Earth' and create a new one Because of The Sins of Israel and the Breaking of The Mosaic Law?

not very many, but that is what God says He will do and Why He will do it. ]

[ God does not destroy 'Heaven and Earth' because of the Sins of Gentiles, He destroys 'Heaven and Earth' because of the Sins of Mosaic Covenant Israel.

That Mosaic Covenant and the world that it represented is no longer around and Israelite peoples of that Covenant are no longer around. ]

[The Creation of Genesis is not about a physical creation but covenantal. The Mosaic Covenant Creation is not about a physical Creation, but convenantal.
The Messianic Covenant new Creation is not about physical Creation, but Covenantal. We live in a physical world and always will, but our Covenant is on a Spiritual plane. This understanding seems to be lost to you. ] }

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Gil > The houses we build are within our own bodies. we plant vineyards within us that are of the Father, for our sustenance.
Do we have children that are of the spirit while we are still within the flesh? Yes.
Be they our own physical children or those around us which are still within the flesh.We are as planters. Planters of the promised seed that is to be the new man by spreading the gospel of our Lord, who will do the work. We plant but bare grain which if it lands on good ground , it will be quickened by our Father that it will spout and begin to grow in the Lord.

Considering the Heaven and Earth that was constructed by the children of Israel after the Mosaic covenant of Death was given unto them. Their world. The Earth (Soul of the woman Israel) found her habitation within the walled city Jerusalem and the Heaven ( Her Temple, the dwelling place of her God) were destroyed in AD70.

The story is not about physical Cities and Temples , but of the Spirit and Soul of the Flesh that had became the children of Israel.

I guess this is the understanding of those that adhere to Covenant Creation.
That is, the Old and New Creations were the Covenants.
I must disagree on this one. (IMO).
The Old and New Creations were both Bodies, That of the Flesh Man and that of the BOC.

The covenant of the Body of Death and sin was the Mosaic.
The covenant of the BOC is that of Grace and Mercy through Faith alone.
The covenants ( both) were to come of the loins of Abraham.

Concerning the sons of light and the sons of darkness.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

Paraphrased, I create darkness and create evil, I form the light and I make peace.

Gil

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[CWH]

Do you understand that Righteousness is not accounted to an individual until the 'Coming' of Christ? You can never be Righteous by belief, you are Righteous by Judgment. What made those whom the Bible say are Righteous? Faith. But The Law came and said none are righteous and all deserve death. Death reins where there is not Redemption, Salvation And Resurrection. And these do not come until The Day of The Lord.

Don't you know that we are supposed to be seeking the kingdom of God and His Righteousness (Note also that the kingdom of heaven is his vineyard...a farm that produces "grapes"):

Seek ye first the kingdom of God
And his righteousness
And all these things shall be added unto you
Allelu, Alleluia.


Here the Lord told us not to worry about butter and bread issues (material things) but to seek His kingdom first and His Righteousness as these are the priorities we should be focusing on and all these things about food, drinks, clothings and life will be given to you.....again it boils down to the question of, "do spirtual beings in heaven need clothiings, food and drinks?":

Matthew 6: 25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[e]?
28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Isn't God looking for righteous people to work for His kingdom of heaven?

Matt 20:1-16 "For the Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who was the master of a household, who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. When he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. He went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace. To them he said, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.’ So they went their way. Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise. About the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle. He said to them, ‘Why do you stand here all day idle?’ "They said to him, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ "He said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and you will receive whatever is right.’ When evening had come, the lord of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning from the last to the first.’ "When those who were hired at about the eleventh hour came, they each received a denarius. When the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise each received a denarius. When they received it, they murmured against the master of the household, saying, ‘These last have spent one hour, and you have made them equal to us, who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat!’ "But he answered one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Didn’t you agree with me for a denarius? Take that which is yours, and go your way. It is my desire to give to this last just as much as to you. Isn’t it lawful for me to do what I want to with what I own? Or is your eye evil, because I am good?’ So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few are chosen."

Many Blessings.