Paul or Shaul?

[Richard Amiel McGough]

For years, I've noticed that "Messianic Jews" often refer to Paul by the name "Shaul." I have found this quite irksome because Paul himself addressed his letters as "Paul, an apostle of Christ." When I have asked "Messianic Jews" why they do this, they give these possible explanations:

1) God never explicitly changed Shaul's name,
2) Paul had two names, one Roman, the other Hebrew,
3) The NT is corrupt!

I would like to know what others think of this.

Richard

[shalag]

For years, I've noticed that "Messianic Jews" often refer to Paul by the name "Shaul." I have found this quite irksome because Paul himself addressed his letters as "Paul, an apostle of Christ." When I have asked "Messianic Jews" why they do this, they give these possible explanations:

1) God never explicitly changed Shaul's name,
2) Paul had two names, one Roman, the other Hebrew,
3) The NT is corrupt!

I would like to know what others think of this.

Richard
1. Paul, being passionately devoted to Jesus Christ, and the gospel, would never assume a 'false identity' or false name.

2. Paul by his own admission was a Hebrew of Hebrews - his name Shaul meaning desired: to enquire, request, to ask for, to be given upon request, to grant. If anyone sought God and truth - it was Saul - and God granted his request which is revealed in the name Paul - by definition 'small, little'.
1Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least eÍla/xistov [smallest] of the apostles …
Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least eÍla/xistov of all saints… The tenth is holy. The 10th Hebrew letter YUD carries an image of the Word of God 'coming to birth' from the travail of TET. When Shaul saw the light he fulfilled the call of being 'born again' and received his apostleship to the Gentiles. Yet he spent several years in Damascus receiving the revelation of Christ.
Re Ginsburgh:
The initial point, the essential power of the yud, is the "little that holds much." The "much" refers to the simple Infinity of G-d hidden within the initial point of revelation, which reflects itself as the Infinite potential of the point to develop and express itself in all the manifold finite phenomena of time and space.Paul was definitely 'the little - that held much revelation of Christ. His gospel was not in Word, but in demonstration of power'.

3. The NT is corrupt! This would require denial of the divine inspiration of Scripture:
2Timothy 3:16 (http://www.searchgodsword.org/desk/?query=2ti+3:16&sr=1&t=nkj)All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 (http://www.searchgodsword.org/desk/?query=2ti+3:17&sr=1&t=nkj)that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

[joel]

For years, I've noticed that "Messianic Jews" often refer to Paul by the name "Shaul." I have found this quite irksome because Paul himself addressed his letters as "Paul, an apostle of Christ." When I have asked "Messianic Jews" why they do this, they give these possible explanations:

1) God never explicitly changed Shaul's name,
2) Paul had two names, one Roman, the other Hebrew,
3) The NT is corrupt!

I would like to know what others think of this.

Richard

It is in Acts 13 that the change in name occurs. Up to that point, Saul of Tarsus was first to come forth in Acts 8 when he consents to Stephen's death and brings havoc upon the early ecclesia.

In Acts 9, in the first section, he sought out letters to toke captive Christians for their persecution.
In the second half of the chapter, he is converted, and is himself sought by the Jews.

It is in Acts 13 that the transition occurs. The text is very suggestive of the reason for his change in name.
Saul, his Jewish name, means "desired". The most suggestive expression of this name occurs with the first king, Saul, who was chosen by the people to be their king. He was "desired" by them because of his physical characteristics.

In verse 6 of Chapter 13, Saul and Barnabas are on the island of Paphos where a false prophet, a Jewish sorcerer named Bar-Jesus (a Jewish name meaning "son-Jesus") withstands them as they are evangelizing the political deputy, Sergius Paulus, who had called them to his side to hear from them the word of God.

The sorcerer, Elymas (an Arabic rendering which means "wise man"), being one in same as Bar-Jesus) attemts to divert the deputy from the faith.
It is in verse 13 where the change of name occurs from Saul to Paul.

It is my opinion that the change in name, which has occurred at significant times in the history of Israel's patriarchs, is at least twofold;
1.) the name "Saul" was associated with his early opposition to the faith, and now, his conversion and new focus of faith were instrumental in a total change in his life,
2.) the name "Paul" which is commonly understood to mean "small or little", comes from a root which means "pause, or cease". His ministry represents a "pause" or "change" in the promulgation of the gospel as he became the apostle to the Gentiles.

His ministry is sometimes viewed as being in opposition to that of Peter, the apostle of the circumcision.

Joel

[shalag]

Originally posted by Joel:
It is my opinion that the change in name, which has occurred at significant times in the history of Israel's patriarchs, is at least twofold;
1.) the name "Saul" was associated with his early opposition to the faith, and now, his conversion and new focus of faith were instrumental in a total change in his life,
2.) the name "Paul" which is commonly understood to mean "small or little", comes from a root which means "pause, or cease". His ministry represents a "pause" or "change" in the promulgation of the gospel as he became the apostle to the Gentiles.Re #2: This also expresses his thought of Galatians 2:20: 'It is no longer I that live, but Christ lives in me." His own life 'ceased' as he was wholly given over to Christ.

I always felt that what King Saul failed in - Apostle Saul prevailed in - the name Paul significant of the 'redemption' of the original failure. A little like the spirit of Elijah - when John the Baptist came in 'that name'.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

1. Paul, being passionately devoted to Jesus Christ, and the gospel, would never assume a 'false identity' or false name.
Amen! And that's why I don't think folks who call him "Shaul" are in line with God's Spirit. I know that may sound "harsh" or "judgmental" but the reason it means so much to me is because the people who reject the name Paul are implicitly rejecting God's Word in which we find that name.



2. Paul by his own admission was a Hebrew of Hebrews - his name Shaul meaning desired: to enquire, request, to ask for, to be given upon request, to grant. If anyone sought God and truth - it was Saul - and God granted his request which is revealed in the name Paul - by definition 'small, little'.
Yes. Saul was zealous for the traditions of his fathers, that's for sure. But I find it interesting that the Hebrew spelling of Saul is identical to that of "Sheol" = grave. Thus, when Shaul sought to kill David, there is the inevitable Hebrew pun that the Grave was seeking to devour him. Indeed, we find this pun in Scripture:

2 Samuel 12:7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;
The phrase "out of the hand of Saul" is letter for letter identical (ignoring vowel points) to the phrase "from the power of the grave" found in Psalm 45:15

Psalm 49:15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.
And this "coincidence" is amplified by the Greek gematria

Death (Ho Thanatos) = 701 = Saul

So there seems to be something deep going on here.


Richard

[shalag]

Originally posted by RAM
Yes. Saul was zealous for the traditions of his fathers, that's for sure. But I find it interesting that the Hebrew spelling of Saul is identical to that of "Sheol" = grave. Thus, when Shaul sought to kill David, there is the inevitable Hebrew pun that the Grave was seeking to devour him. Indeed, we find this pun in Scripture:


2 Samuel 12:7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;
The phrase "out of the hand of Saul" is letter for letter identical (ignoring vowel points) to the phrase "from the power of the grave" found in Psalm 49:15
Quote:

Psalm 49:15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.
And this "coincidence" is amplified by the Greek gematria

Death (Ho Thanatos) = 701 = Saul

So there seems to be something deep going on here. Now, this is good - -really pregnant with further revelation - and relevant of resurrection of life - especially thinking of his 'Romans' revelations (9-10-11)

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Now, this is good - -really pregnant with further revelation - and relevant of resurrection of life - especially thinking of his 'Romans' revelations (9-10-11)
:thumb:

God expressed His Gospel in the most amazing terms - insemination with the Seed of the Word, Pregnancy, Labour, Birth, Maturity, Marriage. Just like "Real Life"!

[Victor]

Just a quick note:

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


We have the identity:

http://www.biblewheel.com/images/gr/00781G_Paul.gif (Paulos) = 781 (http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_781.asp) = http://www.biblewheel.com/images/gr/00781G_Wisdom.gif (Sophia, Wisdom)

Victor

[joel]

Death (Ho Thanatos) = 701 = Saul

So there seems to be something deep going on here.


Richard



Now, this is good - -really pregnant with further revelation - and relevant of resurrection of life - especially thinking of his 'Romans' revelations (9-10-11)

It is within the land that Israel chooses to have a king over them like the other nations.

When they choose Saul not only are they rejecting the rule of God over them, but, they are actually substituting His rule for "flesh" which is ruled by two sovereigns, according to Paul, which are; sin, and death.

Within the nation, there are two authorities now when they seek a king; there is the authority of the priests, and, there is the authority of the king.

The priests focus on "sin", i.e. missing the standard of righteousness and the resultant need of "sacrifices" that deal with "sin". On the positive side, the priests also administer the offerings of thanksgiving which do not focus on sin, but on God's provisions for them.

Paul, in his Romans letter, deals with sin as the sovereign over mankind being overthrown in the death of Christ (chap. 6). In addition, in chapter 7, he deals with death, and fruitfulness. This is what I believe is representative of the flesh trying to be fruitful on its own. It is destined to fail, just as the Israelites were destined to fail in their service to God.

These two chapters, 6 & 7, of Paul's Romans letter, are the comprehensive section where both sin and death are dealt with in the sacrifice of Christ.

Joel

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Just a quick note:


We have the identity:

http://www.biblewheel.com/images/gr/00781G_Paul.gif (Paulos) = 781 (http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_781.asp) = http://www.biblewheel.com/images/gr/00781G_Wisdom.gif (Sophia, Wisdom)

Victor
Yep! That's one of my favorites.

[derekkye]

For years, I've noticed that "Messianic Jews" often refer to Paul by the name "Shaul." I have found this quite irksome because Paul himself addressed his letters as "Paul, an apostle of Christ." When I have asked "Messianic Jews" why they do this, they give these possible explanations:

1) God never explicitly changed Shaul's name,
2) Paul had two names, one Roman, the other Hebrew,
3) The NT is corrupt!

I would like to know what others think of this.

Richard


Paul is corrupt.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Paul is corrupt.
Do you mean the name "Paul" is corrupt, or that the man named "Paul" was corrupt?

Do you accept the Bible as the word of God?