Nachmanide's 10 Dimensions?

[Silence]

I read somewhere years ago that Nachmanides had anticipated "String Theory" physics and the possibility of more than 4 dimensions by centuries through studying the first chapter of Genesis. He came to the conclusion that there were 4 dimensions that were "knowable" and 6 that were "unknowable". The basis for this was the fact that in Genesis 1 there are a total of 10 times where the text says "And God said". Each time God spoke, a new dimension was created. I have tried to find an online text of Nachmanide's writing on this topic to find out how he decided that 4 dimensions were knowable and 6 were not, but have not had any luck. Does anyone know where I can find this?

While reading another thread recently, I came across a statement that some physicists had come to the conclusion that in order for Jesus to walk through walls, appear and disappear at will, and at the same time be able to eat food with His disciples, He had to be functioning in at least 11 dimensions, and that some physicists believe there could be up to 26 dimensions. I have no idea how they deduced this and wouldn't understand it anyway, but the possibility of more than 10 dimensions made me think that maybe each dimension could be viewed a part of the "foundation" that creation is "based" on. Which lead me to wonder if maybe there aren't 12 or even 24 dimensions, since the bible speaks of the New Jerusalem having 12 foundations and 12 gates. In reading Genesis 1 again with this in mind I noticed that there are 2 places where God speaks the word "bedel" or "divide", on days two and four. (There are other times in this passage where the word bedel appears in the text but it is not a direct quote that the Lord is speaking) So if you start with 10 times that God speaks, and take two of those instances and divide them, you end up with 24 total.

Also, sometimes when listing the "12" tribes, the bible splits the tribe of Joseph up into Ephraim and Manasseh and leaves out one of the other tribes in order to still have twelve tribes listed. So there are 13 candidates to choose from. The same thing is true of the number of apostles, so are 26 dimensions possible? Interesting that the letters of the Lord's name in Hebrew totals 26.

[Unregistered]

I have no idea, but I just wanted to let you know that this intrigued me and I am interested in knowing the answer to this as well.

[Gil]

Howdy Silence,

Hugh Ross of "reasons to believe" wrote about it and string theory
about 30 years ago.
If I remember right ,Jesus Christ had to pass through 6 dimensions
when passing through the wall when he appeared to some of his disciples.

He may still have a site called "reasons to believe.com "

If you can't find it, I can dig it up myself and throw out a couple of paragraphs anyway.

I think he said there where 11 dimensions referenced in the bible.

Gil :pop2:

[Oasistrh]

Is this his book?
http://www.amazon.com/Writings-Ramban-Nachmanides-Translated-Annotated/dp/1607630206
I heard this belief from Dr. Chuck Missler

[Applnokr]

Go to http://www.believersweb.org/view.cfm?ID=932 or http://www.yashanet.com/studies/revstudy/rev4.htm

Maimonides Originated this idea I believe.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I read somewhere years ago that Nachmanides had anticipated "String Theory" physics and the possibility of more than 4 dimensions by centuries through studying the first chapter of Genesis. He came to the conclusion that there were 4 dimensions that were "knowable" and 6 that were "unknowable".



Go to http://www.believersweb.org/view.cfm?ID=932 or http://www.yashanet.com/studies/revstudy/rev4.htm

Maimonides Originated this idea I believe.
Some folks like to read modern knowledge into the Bible because it gives them a sense that the Bible contains "hidden knowledge" put there by God. But I don't see anything in what Maimonides wrote that had anything to do with string theory or modern physics. The Ten Sephiroth originated long before his time, and they don't have anything to do with string theory anyway. The only thing they have in common is the number 10, which is the number of fingers on two hands, the number of commandments, etc. I don't see any connection with modern physics.

[David M]

Some folks like to read modern knowledge into the Bible because it gives them a sense that the Bible contains "hidden knowledge" put there by God. But I don't see anything in what Maimonides wrote that had anything to do with string theory or modern physics. The Ten Sephiroth originated long before his time, and they don't have anything to do with string theory anyway. The only thing they have in common is the number 10, which is the number of fingers on two hands, the number of commandments, etc. I don't see any connection with modern physics.

The Bible is not a scientific book, we should not look to the Bible to explain scientific matters. The Bible does not set out to explain what is unexplainable to man. The Bible makes simple statements we just have to accept as the answer to the origin of life and the universe.

I have just watched a video entitled 'Quantum Physics - Microscopic Universe' found on Youtube. It appears that science has come up against a barrier which it is not able to get beyond. That said, some of the theories associated with the microscopic level, in which we are talking about Quantum Mechanics, talk about things like Quantum Entanglement. The attributes associated with Quantum Entanglement are descriptive of the the God, that by enlarge, scientist are rejecting.

Quantum Entanglement says that particles are interacting with each other instantaneously no matter what the distance is between them. Paticles could be thousands and millions of miles apart and still interact instantaneously. The particles are acting as if in two places at once. This notion then leads on to speculating about time travel etc. God is it said to be omnipresent; that implies God can be in all places at the same time. That is feasible according to Quantum Entanglement.

It is interesting to hear the statements that come from the scientists in the programme. The Uncertainty Principle is a good name on which to hang scientific theories, that are uncertain.

It is stated in the programme; "answers lie in a higher dimension we can never explore". When trying to understand Dark Matter, it is said; " it is beyond the reach of our detection".

The latest theory at the realms of the smallest possible scale; that of the Planck Length (10-33) is; String Theory.

There is this apparent barrier that science might have to eventually concede cannot be got through. I am reminded of what we are told from the beginning in one of the oldest books in the Bible going back to the time of Job who declared; (Job 5:9)... which (God) doeth great things and unsearchable; How intuitive was that of Job and that still remains the case. That seems to have been confirmed by science.

The programs talks about Quantum Mechanics being "counter intuitive". Intution is being discussed by Richard in another thread to do with the Golden Rule. It appears we cannot rely on intuition to find the answers. Just as Richard thinks the Golden Rule is intuitive, then it is equally intuitive of man to realize that he cannot look outside the box (system) that he is trapped inside.

In order to see outside the system, of which we are apart, requires tools that are not available within the system. This is the barrier that science is up against. The only way to get to see further into the microscopic scale was said by one scientist; is to have more energy available in the form of bigger and more powerful particle accelerators in order to smash particles into each other and measure the energies of particles produced.

It is not understood what Dark Matter is. It cannot be seen and is postulated to make up 85% of the universe in order for the Universe to hang together.

Maybe Dark Matter, like string theory, is at the heart of the matter. This would account for why the speed of light to be exceeded if Quantum Entanglement is correct. That could expalin how God could create all the stars in one day, which to man appears to be billions of years old. If we think philosophically or meta-physically, this Universe could have been created in a moment it became a thought in God's mind. Maybe that thought is a continuing thought process and this Universe exists within the mind of God. That makes the mind of God greater than the Universe could ever be. That is why the mind of God is unsearchable to us.



David

[Unregistered]

David M, you nailed it. the more that is discovered, or the boundaries of knowledge that are discovered, the more it becomes apparent that quantum physics points to an omnipresence and omniscience at work behind every physical process. I wish more believers could articulate the 'spiritual ideas' of the Bible into what they actually appear to be in the physical universe; ie: 'angels'= created interdimensional beings, 'spiritual realm' = higher dimensions accessible only to God, angels, and our own 'spirits'= transcendental life force, and the 'Holy Spirit,' which is the part of the Godhead that is the fabric or link that connects the human spiritual life force to the omniscient and omnipresent nature of God. Ok, so when I say it like that, it DOES sound pretty complicated. I guess I'm just disappointed with the overly simplified terminology and concepts used in your average Sunday sermon. I think people would more readily connect the 'spiritual' aspects of God and creation with their everyday lives if we talked about them in more physics- based terminology. It would glorify God to fully acknowledge the magnificence of Creation in terms we use in the modern sense, rather than use terminology that was more appropriate for a bronze age culture....

Another theory that goes well with all of this is the Holographic Principle, as proposed by Leonard Susskind, Gerard t' Hooft, et al. This posits that all the physical activity playing out in any given sphere or area is a representation or a reflection of governing laws that are being 'projected' from outside that particular sphere of reality. Although the physicists who propose this idea don't advocate for a Creator, it seems to me that this is exactly what a universe created by an all powerful being would look like and operate like.

[Unregistered]

David, I was with you up until the last bit about the universe existing within the mind of God.

This cannot be. If God became man in the form of Christ then he could not have become a creation within his own mind. That would merely be a projection.

We simply have to accept that in order for God to have created the universe then he must exist outside the dimensions of this universe. That being the case, then no amount of trying will lead to a knowledge of Him.
It's written that no man has seen God at any time. That clearly means the future as well as the past ("has" does refer to the past, but remember Jesus said "before Abraham was, I am" which I believe indicates his divinity as being outside time). We cannot see God until we are beyond the limits of our own space and time.

[David M]

Hello Guest
Thank you for your input, I hope you join the forum so we know who we are speaking to.


David, I was with you up until the last bit about the universe existing within the mind of God.That was only a thought that I am not totally happy with idea my self but I did have an extra thought that since there is so much inside atoms, is the space the space something or nothing?


This cannot be. If God became man in the form of Christ then he could not have become a creation within his own mind. That would merely be a projection.That is where we are on different track. I do not see Jesus as God. As far as I know, God does not change and does not become less than he is (Spirit).


We simply have to accept that in order for God to have created the universe then he must exist outside the dimensions of this universe. That being the case, then no amount of trying will lead to a knowledge of Him.I do agree with that, although you might want to think what it means for; God is all and in all"(1 Cor 15:28) I know there is a similar verse speaking about Christ (Col 3:11)


It's written that no man has seen God at any time. That clearly means the future as well as the past ("has" does refer to the past, but remember Jesus said "before Abraham was, I am" which I believe indicates his divinity as being outside time). We cannot see God until we are beyond the limits of our own space and time.Once again, I have a different understanding and that verse is not linking to the words in Exodus and with nearly all other translations of the same word in the NT say; "I am he"
I do wonder how in the Kingdom, God will dwell with men. However, in some sense, God is hidden from us in that sin has separated us. We cannot get that close to God while we are sinful and it would not be until after the resurrection and more likely in the kingdom when God will be much closer. Maybe God will speak directly with us in the kingdom which he does not do now.

Once again, I am in unknown territory so those are only my thoughts based on a few sentences we have to go on.



David

[Unregistered]

If God has the power to create a living universe, he most definitely has the power to enter it. He isnt a computer programmer. The guy who makes the computer isnt in the computer... Because he isnt God. God is not limited in his ability. If he was, he wouldn't be God.

[Unregistered]

Some folks like to read modern knowledge into the Bible because it gives them a sense that the Bible contains "hidden knowledge" put there by God. But I don't see anything in what Maimonides wrote that had anything to do with string theory or modern physics. The Ten Sephiroth originated long before his time, and they don't have anything to do with string theory anyway. The only thing they have in common is the number 10, which is the number of fingers on two hands, the number of commandments, etc. I don't see any connection with modern physics.

Anyone who studies Kabbalah will attest those who compiled this doctrine were totally struggling to describe attributes, what mystics cannot adequately describe could be be these other dimensions?

[Unregistered]

Three of my children are physicists, one, a particle physicist. Me? I am as confused as I am intrigued by all of it. In fact I would not even comment on this thread were it not for two errors I saw in the midst of a debate on ?how many photons dance on the head of a pin?.
One: the identity of Jesus as God. It seems that Jesus, being made subject to the physical realm and limited by four dimensions, cannot encompass an infinite God. And yet there is much talk about our inability to understand even the dimensions in which God dwells. Why then can we not admit our inability to grasp Trinity? Jesus claimed to be the Father and yet communed with the Father as an ?other?. Jesus allowed Thomas to worship him and call him ?my Lord and my God,? which a good Jew would never do! And we can probably agree that Jesus was a pretty good Jew. Can you really discern between the father, and the son, or the spirit? Can you separate them? When when I meditate on the concept I am aware of trying to bring a higher-dimensional idea into the mechanical wrangling of my human mind. The spiritual is like the physical here: we will never be able to wrap our minds around it but Jesus told us it is so. He gave evidence that He was/is God. And we know it by faith.
Two: ?God does not speak to us directly.? Well then what will I do with Moses, Abraham, Paul, Jeremiah, Hosea, Noah, Peter...and me? If you cut out every place in the Bible where God talks directly to man it would look like a cheese grater. He may not speak often but he certainly does speak my friend, directly.

[Bradford]

My first post.

Dear New Friends...
I know that the Bible, God's Word, God's letter to us, is not preoccupied with "how" but rather "why".
I think that God did this (with hints of "how" for those who want to know) partially for our entertainment, FUN!
I know that I get a real kick when I actually find something out about God that's partially hidden.
It's like finding a hidden passageway that leads to a room in your home after living there for 10-years.
These things I find almost always create severe depth in the meaning of what I'm studying.
That being said, Quantum Physics, Quantum Entanglement, may be the glass in a window
that we can walk up to, see through to some things, but never enter.

I liked:
"Quantum Entanglement says that particles are interacting with each other instantaneously no matter what the distance is between them. Paticles could be thousands and millions of miles apart and still interact instantaneously. The particles are acting as if in two places at once. This notion then leads on to speculating about time travel etc. God is it said to be omnipresent; that implies God can be in all places at the same time. That is feasible according to Quantum Entanglement." -David M.

Good science is when we discover "The Rules" that God put in place at "Bereshit", (Properly translated: "In a beginning" -Hebrew). The Greeks say Genesis.
Can God be in all places at the same time? Yes. God said so therefore it is true. "How" He does that Quantum Entanglement may explain. Remember, "The Rules" God also imposed upon Himself. He had to in order to make "free will" possible. But outside of time & space, (where we live), God can do whatever, however He wants. Whenever does not exist outside of our "place"(?) of existence.
Side note: [I]"Free Will exists, but in order for it to work, there has to be a "fair" or "level" playing field. Quantum Entanglement may explain part of a "fair or level playing field". Remember, our "choice" for Jesus Christ is made by "faith". This is the doorway to eternal life with Him. Satan, "The Adversary", has thousands of doors to choose from. Satan wins when we don't choose Christ Jesus. So, in-fact, God has actually made the playing field in Satan's favor. (Job). I wonder what "faith" looks like?

Remember, I'm an idiot compared to you guys - so go easy on me. I cry easy! :-) . -Bradford

[Brother Les]

My first post.


Remember, I'm an idiot compared to you guys - so go easy on me. I cry easy! :-) . -Bradford

No one knows, what he does not know, but he does know that there is a vast amount of knowledge that he does not and never will know...

[Unregistered]

Hello, ya'll.
I came across this site by mere serendipity.

I want to suggest you check a website called quantumtorah.com ( https://www.quantumtorah.com/ten-sephirot-and-special-relativity/?fbclid=IwAR2aYoIDUmIiYtAgA4PuwcXDyzrC8HBU8yj-Q48ybUtUj9VrJbaENyYmwmk&subscribe=success#blog_subscription-2 ), and watch these nice videos:

"The great problem with science, as it is understood today, is that authority, more and more, replaces evidence. The scientists themselves love that, of course, because it means you can't question them but the fact is that we should be questioning them everywhere they go because the whole notion of science is that you should open to the idea of questioning the claims that you make."
-Tom Bethell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLdZzf8HoUU

"There are an awesome set of 'coincidences' in the atmosphere which happen to allow the light of the sun to come right down to the surface of the Earth where it can empower photosynthesis. Miraculously the atmosphere blocks out lots of other forms of radiation and allows the life-giving light to get to the planetary surface to allow photosynthesis to occur so you can have oxygen..." "...but the amazing thing of the window in the atmosphere is [that] UV, gamma radiation, dangerous radiations are blocked out and so the light of the sun comes right down to the earth where oxygen can be manufactured"
-Michael Denton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoI2ms5UHWg

?For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.?
-Jastrow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmIc42oRjm8


I hope they are of blessing to all of you.

[Unregistered]

If God became man in the form of Christ then he could not have become a creation within his own mind.
The Trinity is a derived doctrine, not a stated one. There are direct statements in the Bible that overthrow the Trinity concept. E.g. 1 Corinthians 8:6: "yet for us, there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live;..."
In John 17:3 Jesus said the Father is "the only true God." That excludes both the HS and Jesus.
Stated trumps derived.

Therefore, the objection raised is not valid.

[GuestFollowup]

The Trinity is a derived doctrine, not a stated one. There are direct statements in the Bible that overthrow the Trinity concept. E.g. 1 Corinthians 8:6: "yet for us, there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live;..."
In John 17:3 Jesus said the Father is "the only true God." That excludes both the HS and Jesus.
Stated trumps derived.

Therefore, the objection raised is not valid.

John 10:30 "I and My Father are one."
John 14:7 ?If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.?

8 Philip said to Him, ?Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.?

9 Jesus said to him, ?Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ?Show us the Father?? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves."

While this does not say anything about the Holy Spirit (only Father and Son), it does show Father + Son = 1 (or part of 1).
There are others, but as you said, "direct statements overthrow..."

[Yes, I realize the thread started in 2014... and was responded to several times since]