Has the Apostle Peter been in Rome?

[gilgal]

Alberto Rivera said that Peter died in Jerusalem. However Rome claims to have received the Apostle Peter.

I was looking at the stone which was cut off without hands in Daniel 2 and hit the statue at his feet. I wonder since Peter means rock.

Victor?

[basilfo]

Alberto Rivera said that Peter died in Jerusalem. However Rome claims to have received the Apostle Peter.

I was looking at the stone which was cut off without hands in Daniel 2 and hit the statue at his feet. I wonder since Peter means rock.

Victor?

Hi Victor,
Are you saying the Stone in Dan 2 is not Christ?
Dave

[Victor]

Hi Victor,
Are you saying the Stone in Dan 2 is not Christ?
Dave

Hi brother,

I didn't state anything. I think you confused me with gilgal, because in the last line of his post he wrote "Victor?" but that's not his name, he is just asking me what I think. And he didn't say that the Stone "is not" Christ. He was just exploring the issue.

I'll get to gilgal's questions.

[Victor]

Alberto Rivera said that Peter died in Jerusalem. However Rome claims to have received the Apostle Peter.

There is a very large body of evidence that Peter not only had been in Rome but also died and was buried there. Everyone in the early centuries attest that this is the case. It was a given back then. No Christian writer of the first centuries wrote otherwise that I've heard of. There is no other city with a competing tradition on Peter's burial place, which would be the case if there was any doubt about it.


I was looking at the stone which was cut off without hands in Daniel 2 and hit the statue at his feet. I wonder since Peter means rock.

Victor?

It makes much sense. This insight doesn't depend on Peter being or dieing in Rome, but it seems to strengthen the insight.

In Daniel 2, the stone is clearly linked to God's Kingdom which would smash the statue at the feet (corresponding to Rome).

Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
The Kingdom prophesied in Verse 44 was set up by God in Book 44, Acts of the Apostles, on the day of Pentecost. It is His Church. Christ is the King of this Kingdom. The Church founded on Pentecost is the Mystical Body of Christ - the earthly realm of the Kingdom. So the "Stone" of Daniel 2 is the whole Christ - the Lord and His Body. (1Co 12:12) When Paul learned the Gospel in Acts, he didn't hear: "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute my followers?," but "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" (9:4; 22:7; 26:14)

As we read Acts, we find the Gospel spreading in a forward movement, beginning with Jerusalem and through Peter and Paul going all the way to Rome. Acts ends in Rome. Curiously the next Bible book is called "Romans"! The Stone-Kingdom established by Christ moves from the great mountain to the feet of the statue - from Jerusalem to Rome!

The leaders of the early Church were the apostles, the most prominent being Peter, whose name means Rock/Stone. Peter and Paul's preaching made its way into the heart of the great empire, which was never the same after the Stone hit it. They are the representative names of the Church.

It is impossible then to miss the connection between the Stone in Daniel and Peter the Stone in Matthew. Note the link between church/kingdom and stone.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Dan 2:35 The stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
In these passages we find converging concepts. And it is great to find that Daniel and Matthew occupy atbash positions on the Bible Wheel. Matthew mirrors Daniel in the structure of the Bible. Moreover, Peter's first Epistle lies on the same diameter as Daniel (Diameter 5 of the Bible Wheel).

Even the meaning of the name of Paul the apostle seems to play a part in this prophecy. Since the stone becomes a great "mountain," we infer that the stone would be "small" by contrast, so that it could grow.

Peter means "stone" and Paul means "small" - therefore Peter and Paul taking the good news all the way to Rome would describe the trajectory of the 'small stone' that hit the great city.

Everything seems to smoothly connect to everything else. "For who hath despised the day of small things?" (Zech 4:10) The humble small stone left the old and glorious Jewish system behind and took the fourth kingdom, growing into a great Mountain - the Temple of God that filled the whole earth, a Temple made of living stones. (1Pe 2:5)

[gilgal]

There is a very large body of evidence that Peter not only had been in Rome but also died and was buried there. Everyone in the early centuries attest that this is the case. It was a given back then. No Christian writer of the first centuries wrote otherwise that I've heard of. There is no other city with a competing tradition on Peter's burial place, which would be the case if there was any doubt about it.



It makes much sense. This insight doesn't depend on Peter being or dieing in Rome, but it seems to strengthen the insight.

In Daniel 2, the stone is clearly linked to God's Kingdom which would smash the statue at the feet (corresponding to Rome).

Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
The Kingdom prophesied in Verse 44 was set up by God in Book 44, Acts of the Apostles, on the day of Pentecost. It is His Church. Christ is the King of this Kingdom. The Church founded on Pentecost is the Mystical Body of Christ - the earthly realm of the Kingdom. So the "Stone" of Daniel 2 is the whole Christ - the Lord and His Body. (1Co 12:12) When Paul learned the Gospel in Acts, he didn't hear: "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute my followers?," but "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" (9:4; 22:7; 26:14)

As we read Acts, we find the Gospel spreading in a forward movement, beginning with Jerusalem and through Peter and Paul going all the way to Rome. Acts ends in Rome. Curiously the next Bible book is called "Romans"! The Stone-Kingdom established by Christ moves from the great mountain to the feet of the statue - from Jerusalem to Rome!

The leaders of the early Church were the apostles, the most prominent being Peter, whose name means Rock/Stone. Peter and Paul's preaching made its way into the heart of the great empire, which was never the same after the Stone hit it. They are the representative names of the Church.

It is impossible then to miss the connection between the Stone in Daniel and Peter the Stone in Matthew. Note the link between church/kingdom and stone.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Dan 2:35 The stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
In these passages we find converging concepts. And it is great to find that Daniel and Matthew occupy atbash positions on the Bible Wheel. Matthew mirrors Daniel in the structure of the Bible. Moreover, Peter's first Epistle lies on the same diameter as Daniel (Diameter 5 of the Bible Wheel).

Even the meaning of the name of Paul the apostle seems to play a part in this prophecy. Since the stone becomes a great "mountain," we infer that the stone would be "small" by contrast, so that it could grow.

Peter means "stone" and Paul means "small" - therefore Peter and Paul taking the good news all the way to Rome would describe the trajectory of the 'small stone' that hit the great city.

Everything seems to smoothly connect to everything else. "For who hath despised the day of small things?" (Zech 4:10) The humble small stone left the old and glorious Jewish system behind and took the fourth kingdom, growing into a great Mountain - the Temple of God that filled the whole earth, a Temple made of living stones. (1Pe 2:5)

According to Alberto Rivera's comics and tracks Peter died in Jerusalem. Also mentioned is that Jesus called him Peter meaning small stone (Petros or Cephas) as compared to Petra referring to the faith in Christ.

What historical writings prove that Peter went to Rome?

[Victor]

According to Alberto Rivera's comics and tracks Peter died in Jerusalem.

What evidence does he show?


Also mentioned is that Jesus called him Peter meaning small stone (Petros or Cephas) as compared to Petra referring to the faith in Christ.

Well, that doesn't impact in Peter being in Rome or not. So it's off-topic.

And this is an artificial distinction. Petra is feminine, so Christ wouldn't call him Petra. :lol: He called him Petros - the link between Peter and "this rock" is as obvious as it gets.

Taking into account that the Bible has several levels of understanding, Peter's confession that Christ is the Son of the Living God can be considered a founding "stone" as well, but this doesn't hinder the obvious fact that Peter was called the rock upon which the church would be founded. We just need to read Acts to figure that out.


What historical writings prove that Peter went to Rome?

The evidence is voluminous. I don't even know where to start. First century Christians would have considered Peter's place of death important because of Christ's prophecy in John 21. And no one in the early centuries disputed that Peter died in Rome. We have a first-century document written in Rome (Clement's letter to the Corinthians) stating that both Peter and Paul died in Rome. There are numerous Church Fathers who also stated that.

There doesn't seem to be any quarrel about that in the first centuries. If there had been any doubt, it would have been debated. But it wasn't. There are no disputing sites claiming to be the place of his burial. It's a universal agreement in the first centuries of the Church - Peter died in Rome.

[Victor]

There is a KeyLink between Daniel and Matthew. Searching for either "stone" or "rock" within one verse of "kingdom" and "heaven" will bring the following verses:

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Dan 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
"Heaven" is a very distinctive word in both Daniel and Matthew. Daniel and Matthew reside on the fifth atbash pair of the Wheel and "heaven" is the fifth word in Scripture.

There are striking thematic links as well:


In Daniel God sets up His Kingdom; in Matthew Christ builds His Church.
In Daniel the kingdom shall never be destroyed; in Matthew the gates of Hades shall not prevail against the Church.

[basilfo]

I think you confused me with gilgal,

Yup. Sorry Victor. What a difference a punctuation mark makes.

Dave

[Victor]

Yup. Sorry Victor. What a difference a punctuation mark makes.

Dave

No prob, bro. :winking0071:

[Victor]

The link between Daniel 2 and Matthew 16 is very strong. There is yet another set of connections. Both texts describe God giving a distinctive revelation to someone (Daniel and Peter) followed by this same person being empowered in the kingdom rule for having this revelation.

The several distinct themes are highlighted with corresponding colors in both passages:
Dan 2:20 Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his:
[Dream's interpretation follows]
Dan 2:47 The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.
Dan 2:48 Then the king made Daniel a great man, and gave him many great gifts, and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and chief of the governors over all the wise men of Babylon.
Dan 2:49 Then Daniel requested of the king, and he set Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, over the affairs of the province of Babylon: but Daniel sat in the gate of the king.

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Amazing!

[gilgal]

The link between Daniel 2 and Matthew 16 is very strong. There is yet another set of connections. Both texts describe God giving a distinctive revelation to someone (Daniel and Peter) followed by this same person being empowered in the kingdom rule for having this revelation.

The several distinct themes are highlighted with corresponding colors in both passages:
Dan 2:20 Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his:
[Dream's interpretation follows]
Dan 2:47 The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.
Dan 2:48 Then the king made Daniel a great man, and gave him many great gifts, and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and chief of the governors over all the wise men of Babylon.
Dan 2:49 Then Daniel requested of the king, and he set Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, over the affairs of the province of Babylon: but Daniel sat in the gate of the king.

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Amazing!
Wow!
What is Peter in Hebrew? In Aramaic it's Cephas right? Stone in Hebrew is Eben.

[Victor]

Wow!
What is Peter in Hebrew? In Aramaic it's Cephas right? Stone in Hebrew is Eben.

You sum up well.

In Hebrew we have Even and Tsur. Peter's name was the Aramaic Cephas. (John 1:42) In the Aramaic text of Daniel 2, you find Even, just as in Hebrew. All these words communicate the same basic meaning.

[gilgal]

You sum up well.

In Hebrew we have Even and Tsur. Peter's name was the Aramaic Cephas. (John 1:42) In the Aramaic text of Daniel 2, you find Even, just as in Hebrew. All these words communicate the same basic meaning.
Tsur is the same as Tyre. Rock is translated from Tsur.

[NumberX]

Eben, Even, is written as 1-2-50 and is known seen from heavenly point of view as father and sun related. Because it is 1-2 and 2-50 combined. And stone will be here for ever. A rock is stone and a diamond too. Rome means strength.

"Has the Apostle Peter been in Rome?"
Seen from a heavenly point of view you might ask something like:
Has he who has been made of the related Father and Son has been to strength?
Or like you wrote: Has Tyre been to strength?

[Victor]

Eben, Even, is written as 1-2-50 and is known seen from heavenly point of view as father and sun related. Because it is 1-2 and 2-50 combined. And stone will be here for ever. A rock is stone and a diamond too. Rome means strength.

Hey NumberX,

You will like to read an article about the symbolic meaning of Stone (http://www.biblewheel.com/wheel/spokes/Bet_C2.asp) based on the Hebrew letters that spell its name.

[NumberX]

Ah, Victor, just read it and your post above too. You got it already :winking0071: (the information), great posts!

[Victor]

Ah, Victor, just read it and your post above too. I see you got it already :winking0071:


See also Hebrew Word Picture of the Stone (http://biblewheel.com/book/chapters/Chapt07.asp), which is very similar to the first.

You'll have to scroll all the way down. It's on the bottom.

http://biblewheel.com/images/StoneOfProphecy.gif

[NumberX]

It is a delight to read about! I will search for info about tsur too.

[Victor]

Tsur is the same as Tyre. Rock is translated from Tsur.

The "thou art Peter" passage in Matthew took place in Caesarea Phillipi. Curiously, this place is situated approximately on the same latitude of Tyre.

http://www.keyway.ca/gif/caesarph.gif

http://www.biblewalks.com/Photos55/Baniasmap.JPG

[Victor]

It is interesting to notice that both Daniel and Peter received their authority when they were on Gentile soil. Daniel was in Babylon and Peter was in Caesarea Phillipi when they were comissioned by the king. One more link between Daniel 2 and Matthew 16.

[Victor]

When Peter said "Thou art Christ, the Son of the Living God," the primary meaning of his words was associated with messiahship. "Christ" means "anointed" and that's how the king was designated - he was called the "anointed of the Lord" in the OT.

The title "Son of God" also possess the same regnal significance. God told David that his son Solomon would be called "son of God". This title thus characterizes the Davidic King. When Peter called Jesus Christ and Son of God he was recognizing Him as the long awaited anointed of the Lord, the Davidic King Messiah.

We thus have yet another parallelism between Daniel 2 and Matthew 16. Both Daniel and Peter confess the kingship of the interlocutor before they are entrusted with authority:

Dan 2:37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Curiously, Nebuchadnezzar was the first man in the Bible Canon to recognize anyone as "Son of God." (Daniel 3:25) And both Nebuchadnezzar and Jesus are called "king of kings" in the text of Scripture. (1 Timothy 6:15)

[NumberX]

Three who are in the fire in Dan. 3:25 are Sjadrak, probably meaning "joy on the path" and Mesak, probably meaning "skilled, quick" or "he who spans the bow with power" and Abed-Nego, meaning servant of Nego (light/fire). Nego is probably Nebo. The fourth he recognizes too, Nebuchadnezzar in the Bible Canon. 1 Timothy 6:16 also speaks of an inaccessible light where only Lord Jesus Christ lives in. So I see a fire and a light. Fire and light are well connected are they not? And it is fire and luci in the order of the biblical books, turned around you may read something else.. I think they make a party into the fire with their hands up in the air and disco lights shooting everywhere.

Peter Πέτρoς (petros). At first in Matt.4:18
Sela also means rock: 60-30-70. Jes. 16:1, Judges 1:36 2 Kings 14:7. linked to the city of Petra.
Tser probably means rock: 90-200
Tsur, as we already know: 90-6-200 and Tyrus (tsoor); Τύρoς (turos)
Also in names like Tsuriël: 90-6-200-10-1-30. Num 3:35
House of the rock: a place: Beth-Tsur: Joshua 15:58 and other places
House of the rock: a name: The son of Maon. 1 Chr. 2:45
In the name Elisur: My God is a rock. Num.1:5; 2:10; 7:30, 35; 10:18.
The name Kefas Κηφς (keephas) Joh.1:43; 1 Kor.1:12; 3:22; 9:5; 15:5; Gal.1:18; 2:9, 11, 14.
The Pedatsur: (He) who (has been) set free by the rock. Num.1:10; 2:20; 7:54, 59; 10:23.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8DlBN_LLiA :)

[NumberX]

See also Hebrew Word Picture of the Stone (http://biblewheel.com/book/chapters/Chapt07.asp), which is very similar to the first.

You'll have to scroll all the way down. It's on the bottom.

http://biblewheel.com/images/StoneOfProphecy.gif

When we add the teth to it, the 9, the womb for procreation, we get the word avnet 1-2-50-9 which means belt. The belt divides the upper body from the lower body, the place with head and heart etc. from the part with the procreation organs to the earth. In the Bible the priest wears a belt. In Egypt they had something with a belt too, the belt of Orion, three stars. That's where the Gods live and came from was their vision. Well, as we see, they were right in another sense. Because we are created out of the earth - where Egypte is a part of it according to the Bible - it concerns us too, we have belts too. In Egypte on the Giza plateau there has been made a copy of the belt of Orion, a belt in stone: the three pyramides. They have inscriptions about passing over to the afterworld. This connects with the teth being the last sign in the word avnet, the womb.

You may like to go buy yourself a nice belt now and watch something Hollywood made with a series of stones http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX53PVe8Rck and then take a drive through the Bible Belt and book a holiday to the many stones of Egypt's pyramids, it will rock you :)

[Victor]

Curiously, Nebuchadnezzar was the first man in the Bible Canon to recognize anyone as "Son of God." (Daniel 3:25) And both Nebuchadnezzar and Jesus are called "king of kings" in the text of Scripture. (1 Timothy 6:15)


Three who are in the fire in Dan. 3:25 are Sjadrak, probably meaning "joy on the path" and Mesak, probably meaning "skilled, quick" or "he who spans the bow with power" and Abed-Nego, meaning servant of Nego (light/fire). Nego is probably Nebo. The fourth he recognizes too, Nebuchadnezzar in the Bible Canon. 1 Timothy 6:16 also speaks of an inaccessible light where only Lord Jesus Christ lives in. So I see a fire and a light. Fire and light are well connected are they not?

Yes, "well connected". Nebuchadnezzar - king of kings - is the first to acknowledge anyone as Son of God when he sees the fourth man in the burning furnace; 1 Timothy 6 says that Christ is the King of Kings and lives in "inaccessible light." Good insight.


And it is fire and luci in the order of the biblical books, turned around you may read something else.. I think they make a party into the fire with their hands up in the air and disco lights shooting everywhere.

I don't understand the above, specially the reference to "the order of the biblical books."

[NumberX]

luci = light .. fire-luci .. luci-fire .. Lucifire .. a joke
The order or sequence of the biblical books = Daniël is earlier then Matthew.
Disco lights shooting everywhere and dancing on rays of coloured lights = we like to move on beams of several insight lights.

[Victor]

luci = light .. fire-luci .. luci-fire .. Lucifire .. a joke
The order or sequence of the biblical books = Daniël is earlier then Matthew.
Disco lights shooting everywhere and dancing on rays of coloured lights = we like to move on beams of several insight lights.

Oh, now I see! I see the light, of course! :lol:

[NumberX]

Oke, now let's look at a beam of light coming from belt :) I think the info I read in my source is rather unique and that's why I like to share some of it with you, readers.

The avnet 1-2-50-9 without the 1 gives the word beten 2-50-9 and this word means belly. The 1 means the binding to The One and without it we are forced to go the long way of the snake who lies like intestines in our belly. The brains who lie looking a bit like intestines in our head are seperated from the rest of our body and don't go fat from eating, from passing. We can read the story about disconnecting from the One in Gen. with the snake playing it's part. God created the snake too and in our bodies this way. We need a belt, a bond, a binding that is like seperating and binding. The belt is also used for keeping up our trousers so that our legs are not visible, they are also seen as 'under the belt' and that's why the religious persons wear long vestments, although they are not aware of the spiritual meaning behind it I think. I think we don't need to start wearing long garments and long trousers (all the time), that would be a misunderstanding, and also not that's it's wrong, but getting knowledge about the words and how it is crystallized in the material world is like good food for our brain, we can never get enough of it, is my experience, my brains and body do not get fat of it, what about you?

A good understanding about it is that you realize there are layers, like
1) an inner layer is the story about numerical (1-)2-50-9 signs. About this we don't know much, not many sources. Maybe we should learn about it at school?
2) more to the outside is a story in the Bible with a belt and a belly
3) more to the outside is your belly you can touch and a belt you are wearing and the Egyptian pyramids we can see. Here the connection between belt and belly is visible, but there are many more connections in layer 1 where here in layer 3 no connection can be seen.
It is not that one of the layers is not good, they alll are created by God.
If you like you can define it as a wheel within a wheel? In the language it is known as telling something to you, the tellings, the countings, are the layer behind it.

Maybe we should concentrate on stones and rocks again. I don't know if I should bring this up, but a guy has also two kind of stones. The location is below the belt. And some create kidney stones, also a kind of stone in the belt-area. Now I go listen to some rock and roll, to the Rolling Stones.

Or what about making some music of our own? Do you like the stringed instruments?
Let's take the harp, the khinor 20-50-6-200 and the lute, the nabal 50-2-30 together.. :pop2: