PRDS related to the 4 Gospels?

[gilgal]

http://www.yashanet.com/studies/matstudy/mat1.htm
I was wondering if the 4 gospels are associated with the PaRDeS 4 interpretations? Since the last letter represents Sod the deeper meaning of the scripture and John's Gospel shows the depth of Jesus.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

http://www.yashanet.com/studies/matstudy/mat1.htm
I was wondering if the 4 gospels are associated with the PaRDeS 4 interpretations? Since the last letter represents Sod the deeper meaning of the scripture and John's Gospel shows the depth of Jesus.
That's a very good question!

If correct, we would have:

Matthew - Peshat (Plain sense)

Mark - Remez (Hint - Implied meaning)

Luke - Darash (Searching - Typological/Allegorical)

John - Sod (Mystical)

It seems like there might be something here. Thanks for pointing this out.

Here's some more info (http://www.zworld.com.au/2006/04/03/pardes-the-four-levels-of-interpretation/).

Richard

[gilgal]

That's a very good question!

If correct, we would have:

Matthew - Peshat (Plain sense)

Mark - Remez (Hint - Implied meaning)

Luke - Darash (Searching - Typological/Allegorical)

John - Sod (Mystical)

It seems like there might be something here. Thanks for pointing this out.

Here's some more info (http://www.zworld.com.au/2006/04/03/pardes-the-four-levels-of-interpretation/).

RichardAren't the levels similar to the English(metaphor, ... what else was there?)

[Victor]

Through the years I have spent time trying to verify if there is indeed a correlation between them. It doesn't seem to be a very easy task since in all four Gospels contain all four modes of interpretation. But the correlation between Sod and John, the Mystical Gospel, seems very obvious and encourages us to look further.

Maybe it goes like this: Matthew is the Gospel that most directly alludes to the OT. Among all four, it seems to be the one that makes its case most plainly because the OT references often sit on the surface in the form of direct quotes.

The Gospel of Mark seems to hide a deep message that it is not as plain to catch as Matthew's. Of course the first Evangelist runs many themes on the background, but Mark appears to do it more subtly. Its apparent less detailed presentation when compared to Matthew hides many significant points under the surface. You have to look for hints of its inner message in the way he uses words such as "way." In Mark Christ explicitly wants to keep his identity as Messiah a secret, a unique feature of the Second Gospel. As an ox, we must ruminate this book to extract its hinted meaning from what at first sight appears to be plain straw when compared to the fine meal of the other Gospels.

The third level deals with the moral and practical application for life. The Bible is a type of our lives and it has many real life lessons for us. Luke is the most humane of the four Gospels - the cherub with the face of man. Only in Luke Christ goes to the synagogue, opens God's Word, reads it and makes an application for those that were present. His is the Gospel that contains the greatest number of parables (with their lots of real-life applications). It is also the Sapiential Gospel - its overall tone reflects the wisdom of the Proverbs and similar moral-oriented literature.

To correctly interpret John we must have the eyes of an eagle. It is an infinitely deep book - nothing like that has ever been seen in the history of world literature. It is the Mystical Gospel par excellence. Its wings take us to a whole new level as it leads us to the heavenly domain. It is not of this world.

Blessings,
Victor

[Rose]

Through the years I have spent time trying to verify if there is indeed a correlation between them. It doesn't seem to be a very easy task since in all four Gospels contain all four modes of interpretation. But the correlation between Sod and John, the Mystical Gospel, seems very obvious and encourages us to look further.

Maybe it goes like this: Matthew is the Gospel that most directly alludes to the OT. Among all four, it seems to be the one that makes its case most plainly because the OT references often sit on the surface in the form of direct quotes.

The Gospel of Mark seems to hide a deep message that it is not as plain to catch as Matthew's. Of course the first Evangelist runs many themes on the background, but Mark appears to do it more subtly. Its apparent less detailed presentation when compared to Matthew hides many significant points under the surface. You have to look for hints of its inner message in the way he uses words such as "way." In Mark Christ explicitly wants to keep his identity as Messiah a secret, a unique feature of the Second Gospel. As an ox, we must ruminate this book to extract its hinted meaning from what at first sight appears to be plain straw when compared to the fine meal of the other Gospels.

The third level deals with the moral and practical application for life. The Bible is a type of our lives and it has many real life lessons for us. Luke is the most humane of the four Gospels - the cherub with the face of man. Only in Luke Christ goes to the synagogue, opens God's Word, reads it and makes an application for those that were present. His is the Gospel that contains the greatest number of parables (with their lots of real-life applications). It is also the Sapiential Gospel - its overall tone reflects the wisdom of the Proverbs and similar moral-oriented literature.

To correctly interpret John we must have the eyes of an eagle. It is an infinitely deep book - nothing like that has ever been seen in the history of world literature. It is the Mystical Gospel par excellence. Its wings take us to a whole new level as it leads us to the heavenly domain. It is not of this world.

Blessings,
Victor

Excellent insights Victor......:clap2:


Rose

[gilgal]

Through the years I have spent time trying to verify if there is indeed a correlation between them. It doesn't seem to be a very easy task since in all four Gospels contain all four modes of interpretation. But the correlation between Sod and John, the Mystical Gospel, seems very obvious and encourages us to look further.

Maybe it goes like this: Matthew is the Gospel that most directly alludes to the OT. Among all four, it seems to be the one that makes its case most plainly because the OT references often sit on the surface in the form of direct quotes.

The Gospel of Mark seems to hide a deep message that it is not as plain to catch as Matthew's. Of course the first Evangelist runs many themes on the background, but Mark appears to do it more subtly. Its apparent less detailed presentation when compared to Matthew hides many significant points under the surface. You have to look for hints of its inner message in the way he uses words such as "way." In Mark Christ explicitly wants to keep his identity as Messiah a secret, a unique feature of the Second Gospel. As an ox, we must ruminate this book to extract its hinted meaning from what at first sight appears to be plain straw when compared to the fine meal of the other Gospels.

The third level deals with the moral and practical application for life. The Bible is a type of our lives and it has many real life lessons for us. Luke is the most humane of the four Gospels - the cherub with the face of man. Only in Luke Christ goes to the synagogue, opens God's Word, reads it and makes an application for those that were present. His is the Gospel that contains the greatest number of parables (with their lots of real-life applications). It is also the Sapiential Gospel - its overall tone reflects the wisdom of the Proverbs and similar moral-oriented literature.

To correctly interpret John we must have the eyes of an eagle. It is an infinitely deep book - nothing like that has ever been seen in the history of world literature. It is the Mystical Gospel par excellence. Its wings take us to a whole new level as it leads us to the heavenly domain. It is not of this world.

Blessings,
Victor
Mark 4 shows that the parable of the sower and the seed unlocks all other parables:


Mark 4:13And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

14The sower soweth the word.

[Victor]

Mark 4 shows that the parable of the sower and the seed unlocks all other parables:


Mark 4:13And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

14The sower soweth the word.

That verse is exclusive from Mark! Great finding!!

Mark shows how we should go beyond the basic "Peshat" level and into the meaning of the parables of the kingdom. And Mark corresponds to the second interpretive level, the first one that goes "beyond" the primary and plain meaning of Scripture in the PaRDes-Gospels correlation.

[gilgal]

That verse is exclusive from Mark! Great finding!!

Mark shows how we should go beyond the basic "Peshat" level and into the meaning of the parables of the kingdom. And Mark corresponds to the second interpretive level, the first one that goes "beyond" the primary and plain meaning of Scripture in the PaRDes-Gospels correlation.
Mark also mentions Jesus speaking Aramaic as he quotes him many times.

You guys had mentioned the 4 wells in Genesis 26. The 4th one was about depth right? The Gospel of John would fit that category as well as the Sod part of PaRDeS.

But Darash means search right? What does it mean by that? Searching the rest of the scripture for meaning?

[Victor]

Mark also mentions Jesus speaking Aramaic as he quotes him many times.

Yes, but does that relate to the correlation at hand?


You guys had mentioned the 4 wells in Genesis 26. The 4th one was about depth right?

No, the 4th was about oath (Sheba), not "depth."


But Darash means search right? What does it mean by that? Searching the rest of the scripture for meaning?

Luke is the only Evangelist that records Christ opening the Scriptures in the synagogue and searching for a passage. And He also draws an application from the text.

Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written...
The chapter and verse numbers remind me of the content of the text: He opens the book (Petach - Pey - 17) and searches and finds a passage (Darash - Dalet - 4).

After Jesus reads Scripture, He teaches about it:

Luke 4:20-22 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?
Luke clearly suggests that Christ not only read from Scripture but also gave a sermon/homily on what He read.

The sources that you and Richard quote say:


This is a teaching or exposition or application of the P'shat and/or Remez. (In some cases this could be considered comparable to a "sermon.") For instance, Biblical writers may take two or more unrelated verses and combine them to create a verse(s) with a third meaning.

Another level of under­stand­ing the Scrip­tures is called in Hebrew 'drash' mean­ing 'search', this is the alle­gor­i­cal, typo­log­i­cal or homilet­i­cal appli­ca­tion of the text. Cre­ativ­ity is used to search the text in rela­tion to the rest of the Scrip­tures, other lit­er­a­ture, or life itself in order to develop an alle­gor­i­cal, typo­log­i­cal or homilet­i­cal appli­ca­tion of the text.

Luke is the only one to register that event in the synagogue. The following two passages on Spoke 2 of Luke are also exclusively Lukan:

Luke 2:46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Luk 24:44-45 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures.

[gilgal]

But eating the hidden manna has to do with the #3.
Exodus 16:15, 31, 33, 35
Numbers 11:6, 7, 9
Deuteronomy 8:3, 16
Joshua 5:12
These are the passages where the word manna is mentioned. Leviticus is missing. I suppose since God spoke from heaven to Israel his word is the hidden manna. It wasn't mentioned in Genesis. And because of that death ruled throughout the book (Cain, Esau, Shechem, Er, Onan look at all those who sinned and lost their lives or something precious). This way man longed for a divine law.

I read this connection of Leviticus and the 3rd church of Revelation. Though I don't know what is meant (probably because I haven't read the rules of sacrifices).

[Victor]

But eating the hidden manna has to do with the #3.
Exodus 16:15, 31, 33, 35
Numbers 11:6, 7, 9
Deuteronomy 8:3, 16
Joshua 5:12
These are the passages where the word manna is mentioned. Leviticus is missing. I suppose since God spoke from heaven to Israel his word is the hidden manna. It wasn't mentioned in Genesis. And because of that death ruled throughout the book (Cain, Esau, Shechem, Er, Onan look at all those who sinned and lost their lives or something precious). This way man longed for a divine law.

I read this connection of Leviticus and the 3rd church of Revelation. Though I don't know what is meant (probably because I haven't read the rules of sacrifices).

You posted this on the wrong thread. You meant to post it at alphabetic chapter in Revelation 2 (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1561).

[gilgal]

You posted this on the wrong thread. You meant to post it at alphabetic chapter in Revelation 2 (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1561).

Oops! you're right!
I meant to write the following. The Gospel of John mentioned a deep well. The Samaritan woman said that to Jesus. Then Jesus compared that to the spiritual well as people drink and live forever. But by drinking they have to come to the truth as the woman had 5 husbands and living with a 6th man.

Was this the well mentioned in Genesis 26? or this came later?

[Victor]

Oops! you're right!
I meant to write the following. The Gospel of John mentioned a deep well. The Samaritan woman said that to Jesus. Then Jesus compared that to the spiritual well as people drink and live forever. But by drinking they have to come to the truth as the woman had 5 husbands and living with a 6th man.

Was this the well mentioned in Genesis 26? or this came later?

Oh yes, you're right, John is the only one to record the incident at "Jacob's well." This reflects the character of the Fourth Gospel which is itself a well of deep waters! See the thread Drawing water from the well (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1144).

None of the wells mentioned in Genesis 26 is the well of John 4. In Gen 26 the wells are referred to as being Isaac's whereas in John 4 it is Jacob's. Jacob is associated with a well in Genesis 29, but that is a well in a foreign land and not the one in Canaan where Jesus met the woman. But any Jew would make a literary connection with the events in Genesis 29 when they heard a mention to "Jacob's well" in John 4.

[Victor]

The senses of Scripture

According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church.

The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: "All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal." [a]

The spiritual sense. Thanks to the unity of God's plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.

1. The allegorical sense. We can acquire a more profound understanding of events by recognizing their significance in Christ; thus the crossing of the Red Sea is a sign or type of Christ's victory and also of Christian Baptism.[b]

2. The moral sense. The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly. As St. Paul says, they were written "for our instruction".[c]

3. The anagogical sense (Greek: anagoge, "leading"). We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland: thus the Church on earth is a sign of the heavenly Jerusalem.[d]
A medieval couplet summarizes the significance of the four senses: The Letter speaks of deeds; Allegory to faith;
The Moral how to act; Anagogy our destiny.[e]

[a] St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica I, 1, 10, ad I.
[b] Cf. 1 Cor 10:2.
[c] 1 Cor 10:11; cf. Heb 3:1-4:11.
[d] Cf. Rev 21:1-22:5.
[e] Lettera gesta docet, quid credas allegoria, moralis quid agas, quo tendas anagogia; Augustine of Dacia, Rotulus pugillaris, I: ed. A. Walz: Angelicum 6 (1929) 256.

- Cathecism of the Catholic Church, paragraphs 115-118
The fourfold approach to Scripture is an official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, originating from "an ancient tradition." So it didn't appear from nowhere. Both Jewish and Christian tradition thus testify to this interpretive method, and it fits very nicely to the overall pattern of the four Gospels.

[gilgal]

Oh yes, you're right, John is the only one to record the incident at "Jacob's well." This reflects the character of the Fourth Gospel which is itself a well of deep waters! See the thread Drawing water from the well (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1144).

None of the wells mentioned in Genesis 26 is the well of John 4. In Gen 26 the wells are referred to as being Isaac's whereas in John 4 it is Jacob's. Jacob is associated with a well in Genesis 29, but that is a well in a foreign land and not the one in Canaan where Jesus met the woman. But any Jew would make a literary connection with the events in Genesis 29 when they heard a mention to "Jacob's well" in John 4.

When Shechem and his father and people were murdered (Jacob scattered Levi and Simeon's descendants throughout Israel for murdering) but Jacob told Joseph that God had given the land to him and he was giving it to Joseph. Maybe the well is there?

[Victor]

Jacob's well is not found in the Bible. It comes to us through tradition. See Wikipedia's article about Jacob's Well (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob%27s_Well).

[gilgal]

Jacob's well is not found in the Bible. It comes to us through tradition. See Wikipedia's article about Jacob's Well (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob%27s_Well).
Ok

John 4:5 Then cometh he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph.
Sychar is Shechem. Genesis 33:19 and 48:22. But there's no mentioning of the well.

[Victor]

Sychar is Shechem. Genesis 33:19 and 48:22. But there's no mentioning of the well.

That's correct. See my post Spoke 4: The land of Shekem that Jacob gave to Joseph (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14409&postcount=36).