The "Earnest" of Salvation

[Edward Goodie]

I think it is time for a new thread...

So, I would like to discuss the following verse as it applies to new believers in the year 2010. But I warn you in advance, it opens up a huge can of protein-filled worms.

2 Corinthians 1:22 - Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13-14 - In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

So, what exactly was this "earnest"? Was was the purpose? Let's wait until we can hammer out the definition before we start applying it to new believers in our present day, okay?

Thank you for your time.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I think it is time for a new thread...

So, I would like to discuss the following verse as it applies to new believers in the year 2010. But I warn you in advance, it opens up a huge can of protein-filled worms.

2 Corinthians 1:22 - Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13-14 - In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

So, what exactly was this "earnest"? Was was the purpose? Let's wait until we can hammer out the definition before we start applying it to new believers in our present day, okay?

Thank you for your time.
It seems like the text rather explicitly defines the "earnest" as the "Spirit."
ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance
I think the real question is - "What is the redemption of the purchased possession?" When I compare with Romans 8, it seems that the first century believers would have had good reason to expect a physical transformation (redemption) of their bodies:
Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
I think it is very important to ask what these correlated passages are talking about.

Richard

[Rose]

I think it is time for a new thread...

So, I would like to discuss the following verse as it applies to new believers in the year 2010. But I warn you in advance, it opens up a huge can of protein-filled worms.

2 Corinthians 1:22 - Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13-14 - In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

So, what exactly was this "earnest"? Was was the purpose? Let's wait until we can hammer out the definition before we start applying it to new believers in our present day, okay?

Thank you for your time.
Ephesians 1:13-14 - In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
In the simplest of terms, I understand Paul to be saying that the Holy Spirit is the promise that assures every believer they will be redeemed and receive their inheritance in heaven.

In the 1st century the process of restoring all things was being accomplished by Christ in heaven, it would be finished when the kingdoms were delivered up to God and the last enemy put under Christ's feet.
.
Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
.

The sign that all had been accomplished was when Christ returned in power and glory (manifest in the destruction of Jerusalem), then those who were sealed with the Spirit of promise would know their redemption was complete.


Rose

[Edward Goodie]

Hi Rose, I see nothing wrong in what you wrote, however I am trying to place the "timing" of these two statements of yours:


In the simplest of terms, I understand Paul to be saying that the Holy Spirit is the promise that assures every believer they will be redeemed and receive their inheritance in heaven.

and


The sign that all had been accomplished was when Christ returned in power and glory (manifest in the destruction of Jerusalem), then those who were sealed with the Spirit of promise would know their redemption was complete.

When you say "every believer" in your first quote, are you talking about believers today. If so, I didn't what to "hit" that aspect until we could define and give the purpose of the "earnest." So, by this I assume that your hope has not yet been realized??? And hence the present purpose of the "earnest" in your life is still future??? Correct me if I have made a wrong assumption here.

Your second quote seems to give a different purpose than your first quote. You give 1st century context to the second quote and I quite agree. However, I am not completely sure if the "earnest's" job would be notification of their redemption being complete. And if their redemption was complete at the Parousia does this mean that their hope had been realized. Do you see the difference between your two quotes that I am trying to get at? It is a big can of worms...

[Edward Goodie]

It seems like the text rather explicitly defines the "earnest" as the "Spirit."
ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance
I think the real question is - "What is the redemption of the purchased possession?" When I compare with Romans 8, it seems that the first century believers would have had good reason to expect a physical transformation (redemption) of their bodies:
Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
I think it is very important to ask what these correlated passages are talking about.

Richard

Hi Ram, I agree it "seems like the text rather explicitly defines the "earnest" as the "Spirit.""

You caught me off guard with the "physical transformation" though. What physical transformation would occur at the Parousia for those living saints? Do you believe in a physical resurrection of the believer?

Romans 8:23 seems to be pretty clear that Paul was talking about those who were presently living then..."but ourselves also" who would experience the redemption that was nigh in coming (Lk 21:28). A big can of worms..

[Rose]

Hi Rose, I see nothing wrong in what you wrote, however I am trying to place the "timing" of these two statements of yours:


In the simplest of terms, I understand Paul to be saying that the Holy Spirit is the promise that assures every believer they will be redeemed and receive their inheritance in heaven. and

The sign that all had been accomplished was when Christ returned in power and glory (manifest in the destruction of Jerusalem), then those who were sealed with the Spirit of promise would know their redemption was complete. When you say "every believer" in your first quote, are you talking about believers today. If so, I didn't what to "hit" that aspect until we could define and give the purpose of the "earnest." So, by this I assume that your hope has not yet been realized??? And hence the present purpose of the "earnest" in your life is still future??? Correct me if I have made a wrong assumption here.

When I was speaking of Paul's assurance to every believer, it was in the context of the 1st century (even though I believe it applies to us today), in that all believers in that audience would have understood the receiving of the Holy Spirit to be evidence of the promise that was made concerning their inheritance.


Your second quote seems to give a different purpose than your first quote. You give 1st century context to the second quote and I quite agree. However, I am not completely sure if the "earnest's" job would be notification of their redemption being complete. And if their redemption was complete at the Parousia does this mean that their hope had been realized. Do you see the difference between your two quotes that I am trying to get at? It is a big can of worms...



I wouldn't quite put it in terms of "notification", rather I would say that the Holy Spirit would be an internal witness to their hope of redemption being fulfilled.


Rose

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hi Ram, I agree it "seems like the text rather explicitly defines the "earnest" as the "Spirit.""

You caught me off guard with the "physical transformation" though. What physical transformation would occur at the Parousia for those living saints? Do you believe in a physical resurrection of the believer?

Romans 8:23 seems to be pretty clear that Paul was talking about those who were presently living then..."but ourselves also" who would experience the redemption that was nigh in coming (Lk 21:28). A big can of worms..
I was talking about what the first century believers probably would have thought that those words meant. We get a very different view in hindsight.

Basically, I wanted to point out that the descriptions lend themselves to a very physical interpretation. It's hard to believe that the first century believers did not expect a physical, outward transformation. Much like the disciples anticipated a restoration of national Israel in Acts 1 before they were enlightened about God's real plan to evangelize the world.

As for the nature of the resurrection - I know that the Bible talks a lot about a spiritual resurrection. Jesus said that believers did not really "die" even when they physically died, so it seems pretty clear he was talking about something other than a physical death and resurrection. And Paul said we would receive a spiritual body. But ... I don't have any certain knowledge about these things. We form theories as best we can from the Biblical data, but I do not feel like we have any certain knowledge on this particular issue, other than the fact that anyone "in Christ" has experienced a kind of resurrection. But there is a challenge because Paul who said we had been "risen" in Christ, also looked forward to a future resurrection:
Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: 15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
How do you understand Paul's "hope" in this passage? It is possible that he could mean that each individual is resurrected after death, rather than a yet future general resurrection. I don't know ... I have to think about it more.

Richard