Adultery

[HaShaliach]

I asked this on another forum and they cannot seem to come to a conclusion based on scripture, there are a lot of IMO's.

Scenario,

Evangelist comes to church...revival "breaks out." Evangelist ministers for several weeks. Evangelist gets in bed with a new hottie, (committs adultery), gets caught by first wife. Divorces wife. Repents, submits to leadership and accountability. At the same time marries the new hottie, she is now wife #2. After a year, leadership determines the evangelist is "restored" and puts him back in the pulpit in a co-pastor role.

1. Can he be truely "repentant" and stay married to the woman he jumped into bed with; forsaking his wife for?
2. Assuming he is "forgiven" and can keep his new wife and be "right with God." Should he be a "ministering" again?

I'm asking for a valid reason, I have just come into the position of speaking counsel to those who are doing the "restoring" of the evangelist.

[Rose]

I asked this on another forum and they cannot seem to come to a conclusion based on scripture, there are a lot of IMO's.

Scenario,

Evangelist comes to church...revival "breaks out." Evangelist ministers for several weeks. Evangelist gets in bed with a new hottie, (committs adultery), gets caught by first wife. Divorces wife. Repents, submits to leadership and accountability. At the same time marries the new hottie, she is now wife #2. After a year, leadership determines the evangelist is "restored" and puts him back in the pulpit in a co-pastor role.

1. Can he be truely "repentant" and stay married to the woman he jumped into bed with; forsaking his wife for?
2. Assuming he is "forgiven" and can keep his new wife and be "right with God." Should he be a "ministering" again?

I'm asking for a valid reason, I have just come into the position of speaking counsel to those who are doing the "restoring" of the evangelist.



1. Can he be truely "repentant" and stay married to the woman he jumped into bed with; forsaking his wife for? Yes, I feel "he could be" truly repentant for what he did, but that of course doesn't mean he is.

2. Assuming he is "forgiven" and can keep his new wife and be "right with God." Yes, I feel he should keep his new wife, but whether or not he is right with God would be something between him and God.

3. Should he be a "ministering" again? As far as whether he should be ministering again, I say NO. Scripture clearly says that a Minister is to be held to a higher standard. They are to be blameless, hold fast, and be faithful to the Word of God. It is obvious that this evangelist is not blameless, and by no means has he been faithful to the Word of God. There are many others things he can still do to serve the Lord, but he should never be in a position of leadership again.



Tit.1:6-9 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Rose

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I asked this on another forum and they cannot seem to come to a conclusion based on scripture, there are a lot of IMO's.

Scenario,

Evangelist comes to church...revival "breaks out." Evangelist ministers for several weeks. Evangelist gets in bed with a new hottie, (committs adultery), gets caught by first wife. Divorces wife. Repents, submits to leadership and accountability. At the same time marries the new hottie, she is now wife #2. After a year, leadership determines the evangelist is "restored" and puts him back in the pulpit in a co-pastor role.

1. Can he be truely "repentant" and stay married to the woman he jumped into bed with; forsaking his wife for?
2. Assuming he is "forgiven" and can keep his new wife and be "right with God." Should he be a "ministering" again?

I'm asking for a valid reason, I have just come into the position of speaking counsel to those who are doing the "restoring" of the evangelist.
Is there any reason to think that the "evangelist" was a real evangelist, or that the "revival" was a real revival? It sounds like you are describing Todd Bentley. He did exactly what you describe, and is currently in process of being "restored." Everything about him and his "ministry" screamed CHARLATAN! FAKE! LIAR! like a 10,000 watt neon sign. And I mean everything. I knew Todd was a fake the first time I saw him, just like I knew that Rick Joyner was a fake when I read his book "The Quest" in which he exalted himself above the Apostle Paul and invented the oxymoronic lie that an angel gave him a "mantle of humility." And all of this was to be expected since the "Kansas City Prophets" were founded by one of the ultimate fakes of all time - self-professed alcoholic liar homosexual Paul Cain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Cain_%28minister%29).

So whether the you are talking about Todd Bentley or some other person acting like him, there is only one answer. That person is absolutely disqualified for public service in the name of Christ. Especially the self-exalting public "service" of the fake evangelists selling their "revivals."

[Mad Mick]

I've seen this happen time and again where generally one of three things happen,
1. They leave the ministry for good
2. They end up staying in ministry but are so far from God they're lives are spiritually fruitless especially the teaching.
3. They end up divorced again and either keep riding the merry go round or come to their senses and return to their first love (if they'll have them) and become a great witness for restoration and REAL forgiveness, eg. Marilyn and Michael Philips, Marriage Ministries International (MMI).

MMI is a powerful testimony of a woman whose faith was greater than the lust that initially robbed her and recommend it highly.

Another highly useful program is called Ancient Paths by Craig Hill, it has some powerful insights in to dealing with the reasons behind the breakup.

HaShaliach, I have to agree with Rose on this one though. God does place a high standard on who represents him. If your friend is seriously repentant then he needs to show his love for God and be glad he wasn't wiped off the face of this Earth without a chance to redeem himself.

I would say God is giving him that opportunity right now but he's too preoccupied with being reinstated. It doesn't work that way. Look at David. For one night of lust his whole Kingdom was turned upside down, never to recover!

He will pay and dearly at that! If he really wants to walk with God and return to his former glory, he has to leave the woman he's with and walk in celibacy for the rest of his days. Only this action of dying in the flesh will restore any spiritual gifting he may have lost. But most importantly he must receive forgiveness from his first wife.

You see the blood of Jesus washes away the sin, but the return of a spiritual gifting takes 7 times more discipline than at first and I doubt your friend is that committed since he's proven his Lack of True Love by forsaking his wife and staying with Jezebel!

In this case he just can't have his cake and eat it too. Oh sure he might find a church in some backwater and try to live in this charade, but eventually the loss of Gods presence in his spirit which no doubt he is now feeling will eat him up from the inside out.

You see he's given up the greatest gift on Earth from GOD himself for a trinket! If you've tasted the Spirit as I have and have screwed up as much as I have, then YOU KNOW in your spirit this is a serious situation in which it's too late for him. He has to choose who is going to lead his life, God or his Penis!


On the subject of naming people I seriously don't think we need to stoop to this depraved form of gossip and vilification, so Richard please don't.
I know Todd Bentleigh and as much as you might hate that guy, I know in the past how he was cursed, got redeemed then cursed again.

I know he had a great anointing on his shoulders, the prophetic visions, teaching and healing he brought to this country were outstanding. Over 4 days I saw blind people see, deaf children hear, tumors disappear, Demons exorcised and church leadership truly humbled and put to shame by this short round druggie from nowhere, mind you all this happened at a Pastors Convention! The fruit of this one visit has multiplied to the point that the ripple effect rejuvenated the whole state!

Yes the higher you climb the greater the fall, granted and if he is the person were talking about then my word about this subject still stands, yet just to let you know 6 years ago my back was healed at that rally and has remained that way, so when I hear of peoples grievances towards the man It reminds me to pray that God restores him to that level of faith he once had. Yeah it'll be hard for him no doubt, but what really got me fuming is that leadership from my own church who had directly benefitted from our association with Todd Bentleigh dropped him like a bag of hot spuds!

Instead they should have treated him like a brother who went back to the vomit, but that's what you'd expect from a church that went from spirit filled to become fat with wealth, hooked on image and in love with Bling instead of the KING! Yes my criticism towards my own church is transparent and valid. So since he's been treated in such a way from his own family I think it only fair that he not be dragged around this site in such a manner.

Out of all due respect, thank you brother.
Mick

[Richard Amiel McGough]

On the subject of naming people I seriously don't think we need to stoop to this depraved form of gossip and vilification, so Richard please don't.
I know Todd Bentleigh and as much as you might hate that guy, I know in the past how he was cursed, got redeemed then cursed again.

First, his name is Bentley.

Second, I find it amazing and amusing that you think it is fine to vilify me by falsely asserting my comments are a "depraved form of gossip and vilification." My statements are truth backed up with an overwhelming body of evidence. How anyone could fail to see through Bentley's absurd lies and perverse behavior is utterly beyond me. How is it you feel free to "vilify me" while condemning me for "vilification" in the same breath? Romans 2:1 dude.

Third, I don't "hate the guy." I hate the lies and perversions he has spewed forth into the Christian community.



I know he had a great anointing on his shoulders, the prophetic visions, teaching and healing he brought to this country were outstanding. Over 4 days I saw blind people see, deaf children hear, tumors disappear, Demons exorcised and church leadership truly humbled and put to shame by this short round druggie from nowhere, mind you all this happened at a Pastors Convention! The fruit of this one visit has multiplied to the point that the ripple effect rejuvenated the whole state!

Folks "see" a lot of things that are not real in those weird mass-hysteria "revival" meetings - I've seen people barking like dogs and compulsively shaking their heads for weeks under the power of the "spirit" that rules over those conventions. They are "programmed to receive" whatever the stage hypnotist tells them to believe.

Why do you believe any of his stories about "prophetic visions?" I heard him tell stories of his "angel Emma" which he lifted from the false prophet William Branham. I heard him tell stories of KICKING AN OLD WOMAN IN THE FACE to bring about a healing! I heard him blasphemously "baptize" a woman in the name of "SHAM BAM BAM!" Everything about him is false and utterly repulsive to the Spirit of God in every way. It is madness, pure insane demonic madness. The man is an absolute charlatan who made a mockery of the Gospel.



Yes the higher you climb the greater the fall, granted and if he is the person were talking about then my word about this subject still stands, yet just to let you know 4 years ago my back was healed at that rally and has remained that way, so when I hear of peoples grievances towards the man It reminds me to pray that God restores him to that level of faith he once had. Yeah it'll be hard for him no doubt, but what really got me fuming is that leadership from my own church who had directly benefitted from our association with Todd Bentleigh dropped him like a bag of hot spuds!

If your back got healed at a Bentley rally, it was because of your faith in God despite the presence of Bentley, not because of him.




Instead they should have treated him like a brother who went back to the vomit, but that's what you'd expect from a church that went from spirit filled to become fat with wealth, hooked on image and in love with Bling instead of the KING! Yes my criticism towards my own church is transparent and valid. So since he's been treated in such a way from his own family I think it only fair that he not be dragged around this site in such a manner.

Out of all due respect, thank you brother.
Mick
How could I think of Bentley as a "brother" when he is actively spewing perversions and lies? I have no fellowship with such darkness.

I've been thinking of writing an article on Bentley and the other fake "prophets" like Joyner for a long time. I've seen too many people fall for their lies.

I'm glad you spoke plainly about your beliefs. I trust you can handle the fact that I have done the same.

Richard

[Mad Mick]

I truly understand you Richard, when people slip up especially when they're high profile it really is sickening. When I met the guy I was assisting the director of media for the whole event, during the entire 4 day program I'd received confirmation through my own visions that his ministry in 2004 was God's doing. I worked behind the scenes spent time with his trainees, got to know him, his old man ex Hells Angel as well as Mark DuPont came and supported the vision, it was a real breakthrough.

See here was a young bloke who claimed that he deserved death yet God saved him from it, sure I heard the Bam's and sound effects and heard the stories of the kicking and punching and I thought it was way out there, past what I could tolerate, yet when I looked past it, the teaching and coaching sure did put me in the place I needed to be to receive that healing.

Now I know If he doesn't clean up his act, to God it'll be as if he never knew him. But I'm asking you something, do you know what it's like to be dragged up like a DOG. Abused sexually, physically, mentally and living under the curse of Satan all your life.

Get this in your head my friend, until you can FORGIVE your greatest ENEMY you will have NO share in the Kingdom of God! ! ! PERIOD! ! !

We both know if he keeps it up he's going straight to Hell, end of story.
But who are we to Judge when according to Jesus we all need GRACE.

Paying out on people does not do anyones Soul any Good.
It's proven. I'm not even going to quote the many scriptures cause I know you know Gods Love. But maybe have never been as low or as decrepit as my BROTHER Todd Bentley (thanks for the correction) has, to know what it's like to be redeemed at such a low state. He who is forgiven a lot loves a lot. He who has been forgiven little loves little. This is why God says I would rather you Hot or Cold, this instance is a classic example.

Seriously, how many full blown drug addicts have you and your wife turned completely around. Man there are horses for courses and his group are not clean cut, they've killed people, they abuse children, they extort, steal and beat their fathers, wives, kids, mothers and Grandmothers for Hell's sake. They get into Voodoo, Witchcraft, Vampirism, Bloody Cannibalism you name it, these are the people he's been reaching out to. In and out of Jail running scared all their Hell forsaken lives. HE IS THEIR MAN! He has turned more people away from Sin than he has caused AND THAT IS A FACT!

So no matter what you have heard, or seen take it from YOUR real brother in Christ. Don't Talk ill about ANYONE period! No more Jack Van this or Joel that, or Benny done this or the Bakers did that. The greatest lesson I've learnt from Revelation is in the last days "Go about your own business, don't worry about the sinners, let them continue in their Sin.
Well for you and I these could very well be our last days before we die, hey I might even go tomorrow with any Luck! But I'm not one who believes in luck so I may as well keep myself in check, keep my faith and hope for the best.

Now as you can see, I'm not Budging on this issue, I truly believe it's one of the very few problems I've found on this site, which if eradicated would turn this into a World Class 5 Star Website. It doesn't happen often but when other beliefs and people no matter how EVIL get bagged on this site, it does the BIBLEWHEEL no justice Whatsoever!

So by all means I'm happy to continue this line of argument and defend my point with ton's of scripture for yet again we've come across a runaway train, or (PRIUS to be more relevant) where I feel the reins have to be tightened. So if I were to rate the responses on this thread excluding myself as one does when they vote, sorry buddy but both I and Mariana would have to say that Rose's answer wins hands down.

See her response was scriptural and highly useful, she neither put the person down nor pointed the finger assuming it was someone. This response was full of love understanding hope and forgiveness, yet was still firm enough to claim the harsh reality that such behavior can not be tolerated amongst leadership.

The feeling I got from your remarks seemed to me like vilification, where as my response to you was honestly meant as constructive correction and never intended to come across in a scathing manner, so if I did, for that I apologize.
In humble persistence, by the Grace of God in Christ Jesus, amen.
Mick

[CWH]

Let's be forgiving, brothers and sisters in Christ. Adulterers in staunch Muslim countries are stoned or caned publicly. Luckily, we don't live in such harsh society. But look what Jesus did to adulterer, we should be His example, FORGIVING:

John 8:3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

11"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

Let's not accuse anyone, none of us is without sin to throw a stone at anyone. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

Bravo Mike, I agree with you, mate.:yo:

Many Blessings.

[HaShaliach]

Is there any reason to think that the "evangelist" was a real evangelist, or that the "revival" was a real revival?

I did not name names on purpose.

I used to do that but have changed. Oh, the times I have heard Obama railed from a pulpit, Joyce-lipstick lebian-Meyers, and on and on.....

First, you automatically isolate some of the listeners because they like the person you are talking about.
Second, you isolate those who may agree with you in general, but do not believe in public naming of names.

I've found more is accomplished if I speak generally, i.e., speaking about modesty and not saying Janet Jackson is a whore for having an intentional, "wardrobe malfunction."

I do appreciate the words of wisdom spoken here on this forum. In about 3 posts ALL have summed up a 20 page discussion on the other forum.

[Mad Mick]

"Here, Here," maybe someone may come across Satoshi Kanazawa (Thread: General Discussion / Liberalism and Atheism linked to high IQ) and kindly invite him to this forum. I'm sure if he did any real research he'd find people like Newton, Tesla, Feinmann and too a lesser extent Einstein, Bohr, Pauli, Jung and countless other brilliant scientists who all believed in a Unified Conciousness commonly refered to as God. The former respecting the Bible as a work inspired by God.