Redemption for Darkness

[Edward Goodie]

Based upon the following quote of Rose's (original source (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?p=18628#poststop)), I have three immediate questions to ask her:


Jesus came to bring in the New, it was the Old system that was "annihilated", making redemption "universal", that is to say available to all. There need not be any imposition....ALL will come in time, until that point they will remain in darkness. Rose


Who represents the ones in darkness today?

What happens to those today who physically die in darkness? Or does God prevent those in darkness from dying until they have received this life in Christ?

Can people physically die in darkness, as opposed to the True Light?

And once you provide answers to those three simple questions I will ask just one or two more. Perhaps from there we can continue...

[Rose]

Based upon the following quote of Rose's (original source (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?p=18628#poststop)), I have three immediate questions to ask her:


Originally Posted by Rose http://biblewheel.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?p=18628#post18628)
Jesus came to bring in the New, it was the Old system that was "annihilated", making redemption "universal", that is to say available to all. There need not be any imposition....ALL will come in time, until that point they will remain in darkness. RoseWho represents the ones in darkness today?

What happens to those today who physically die in darkness? Or does God prevent those in darkness from dying until they have received this life in Christ?

Can people physically die in darkness, as opposed to the True Light?

And once you provide answers to those three simple questions I will ask just one or two more. Perhaps from there we can continue...

Hi TruthSeeker,

First off I want to make sure you know that my answers are based solely on my understanding of God's plan of salvation. Now to your questions.

I would say that the people who are in darkness today are the ones who have not yet found the redemptive light of Christ, their physical death is no different from the physical death of a person who walks in the light of Christ. The physical body of every person dies.

As far as the state of a person who is in darkness after death, the only Scripture I have to go on is that of Rev.22 where it states that all those who are without Christ remain outside the gates of New Jerusalem, but the offer of free salvation is always available for whosoever will come.
.
Rev.22:14-15 Blessed [are] they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.

Rev.22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that hears say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
.
From those verses it seems that choices are still being able to be made, even after the judgment of the Old system of heaven and earth in Rev.20.


God Bless,

Rose

[gregoryfl]

One thing that hinders the understanding is thinking that physical death and judgment seals the fate permanently for everyone. There truly is physical death, and also judgment, but man's ultimate destiny was sealed by Jesus Christ on the cross based on justification, moreso than Adam's transgression bringing condemnation upon all.

While most today do indeed walk in darkness, it is not because they are literally in darkness, but because their hearts are covered, and they are blinded from being able to see the light within, a light which every man has. Each in their time, whether while physically alive, or afterward, will eventually see who they truly have been made to be.

Ron

[Edward Goodie]

Hi TruthSeeker,

First off I want to make sure you know that my answers are based solely on my understanding of God's plan of salvation. Now to your questions.

I would say that the people who are in darkness today are the ones who have not yet found the redemptive light of Christ, their physical death is no different from the physical death of a person who walks in the light of Christ. The physical body of every person dies.

As far as the state of a person who is in darkness after death, the only Scripture I have to go on is that of Rev.22 where it states that all those who are without Christ remain outside the gates of New Jerusalem, but the offer of free salvation is always available for whosoever will come.
.
Rev.22:14-15 Blessed [are] they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.

Rev.22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that hears say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
.
From those verses it seems that choices are still being able to be made, even after the judgment of the Old system of heaven and earth in Rev.20.

God Bless,

Rose

Thanks Rose. And I understand that each person is only able to understand for themselves. I will respond to this post in gregoryfl's post...since yours and his seem to affirm each other.

[Edward Goodie]

One thing that hinders the understanding is thinking that physical death and judgment seals the fate permanently for everyone. There truly is physical death, and also judgment, but man's ultimate destiny was sealed by Jesus Christ on the cross based on justification, more so than Adam's transgression bringing condemnation upon all.

While most today do indeed walk in darkness, it is not because they are literally in darkness, but because their hearts are covered, and they are blinded from being able to see the light within, a light which every man has. Each in their time, whether while physically alive, or afterward, will eventually see who they truly have been made to be.

Ron

Well, it looks as if you and Rose have eliminated my follow-up question...

I am assuming that the destiny of the individual is sealed at physical death. So, now, you have made me ask another question...

Where do the physical dead go while waiting for there "second" chance? I am under the understanding that Hades, the pre-parousia realm of the dead, was abolished AT the Parousia, so that excludes them waiting there...

And I guess I have to ask whether or not you also believe that Hades was abolished AT the Parousia with the destruction of the old covenant economy.

I really do need to see some clear verses (like we ask the futurists) regarding a decision-making process (for lack of a better phrase) or second chances after physical death has taken place.

If there is going to be ANY delay of any length of time after physical death, the "departed" must go somewhere to wait for this "other" opportunity. I am sorry, but this sounds so much like the Catholic doctrine of purgatory, which I believe is based upon the OC realm of Hades/hell/sheol.

Baby steps with lots of Scripture please...

[gregoryfl]

Well, it looks as if you and Rose have eliminated my follow-up question...

I am assuming that the destiny of the individual is sealed at physical death. So, now, you have made me ask another question...

Where do the physical dead go while waiting for there "second" chance? I am under the understanding that Hades, the pre-parousia realm of the dead, was abolished AT the Parousia, so that excludes them waiting there...

And I guess I have to ask whether or not you also believe that Hades was abolished AT the Parousia with the destruction of the old covenant economy.


In my answer, I will use scripture, but know that it will take more than simply looking at an English translation to see what I am going to share. I ask that as I share, please ask for definitions as to words if something seems unclear.

As to where people go when they die, I believe that all go to be with the Lord. God is love (1Jn 4:16) How one experiences that depends on whether they believe or not. What will they experience? For us who believe, his love is experienced in boldness as ones who know that when we see him, we will be just like him. (1Jn 4:17; 1Jn 3:1,2)

For those who do not believe, that love will be experienced as mental anguish, tormenting the mind. As an example, those who worship the beast experience this torment in the very presence of the Lamb. It may be likened to someone who hates believers being surrounded by them all day long, and being loved. While they are in the state of hate, you can imagine how much that would torment them. Well, in the undiluted presence of God himself, it is infinitely greater.

Rev 14:10 he, also, is drinking of the wine of the fury of God, blended undiluted in the cup of His indignation, and he shall be tormented in fire and sulphur in the presence of the holy messengers and in the sight of the Lambkin."

God's wrath, or fury, is actually an act of love, not an act of a God who is ticked off with man. The phrase fire and sulfur in Greek thinking denoted "divine purification". The word for fire is 'pur' where we get our word pure from. And sulfur in the Greek is theion, speaking of that the nature of the fire, divine fire; hence, divine purification. And that is exactly what it's purpose is. The principle is found in the Proverbs, as well as here:

Rom 12:20 Therefore "If your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he is thirsty, give him a drink; for in doing so, you will heap coals of fire on his head."
Rom 12:21 Don't be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

The reason this love for an enemy is likened to heaping coals of fire on the head is because it isn't pleasant at first, but it's purpose is for their benefit. Burning doesn't make something not exist, it changes the composition of what is burned. The Jewish commentators understood it to be this way:

"when he remembers the food and drink thou hast given him, thou shall burn him, as if thou puttest coals upon his head to burn him, וישמור מעשות לך רע, and "he will take care of doing thee any ill";''

This is also expressed in the phrase "eonian punishment." God's punishments are not like man's, where man punishes by locking someone up. The very word punishment contains within it the idea of correcting behavior, bringing out a beneficial change. This punishment, being eonian, means it is a punishment from God that pertains to the Messianic age (eonian) that we are now living in. It is not speaking at all about a punishment which never ends.

Yes, I do believe that Hades has been thrown into the lake of fire and is no more. There is no holding tank as I see it. All in the presence of God, either experiencing his love as it truly is, or as torment, which will in time bring all to their senses.

When I read the scripture that every knee will bow, and every tongue confess Jesus is Lord, it is to the glory of the Father. This is no forcing of people against their will to confess that Jesus is Lord, then to be tossed into a hell to burn forever. How would God get glory out of people acknowledging his son against their will? But oh, what glory it is if they are all willingly doing so, not out of spite, or regret, but as Paul says TO God's glory. There is adoration here. The wisdom of God is seen in this, that everything that comes out of God in his creation ends up back to him. None end up away from him. :)

Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things. To him be the glory for ever! Amen.

I will stop here for now, and on my next post I will share why I believe that the lake of fire is related to the fire coming from the throne of God, and is pictured by the molten sea in the temple.

[Rose]

Well, it looks as if you and Rose have eliminated my follow-up question...

I am assuming that the destiny of the individual is sealed at physical death. So, now, you have made me ask another question...

Where do the physical dead go while waiting for there "second" chance? I am under the understanding that Hades, the pre-parousia realm of the dead, was abolished AT the Parousia, so that excludes them waiting there...

And I guess I have to ask whether or not you also believe that Hades was abolished AT the Parousia with the destruction of the old covenant economy.

I really do need to see some clear verses (like we ask the futurists) regarding a decision-making process (for lack of a better phrase) or second chances after physical death has taken place.

If there is going to be ANY delay of any length of time after physical death, the "departed" must go somewhere to wait for this "other" opportunity. I am sorry, but this sounds so much like the Catholic doctrine of purgatory, which I believe is based upon the OC realm of Hades/hell/sheol.

Baby steps with lots of Scripture please...

Hi TruthSeeker,

I am so glad you have chosen to pursue this topic...:thumb:

God is a consuming fire, as such nothing but purity can stand in His presence! The saving work of Christ on the cross allows all who are washed in His blood to stand before the Father. In Christ our works in this life can be judged and redeemed, those who are not in Christ have no works done in this life that are able to stand before God, thus leaving only the person with nothing to show for the life that was given him.
.
1Cor.3:13-15 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Rose

[gregoryfl]

Very well-stated and succinct point there Rose. :thumb:

Here are a couple of articles I wrote on the subject of the lake of fire itself, as well as the connection with the molten sea.

http://ronsrestingplace.yolasite.com/fire-and-water-do-mix.php

http://ronsrestingplace.yolasite.com/lake-of-fire-second-death.php

[Rose]

Very well-stated and succinct point there Rose. :thumb:

Here are a couple of articles I wrote on the subject of the lake of fire itself, as well as the connection with the molten sea.

http://ronsrestingplace.yolasite.com/fire-and-water-do-mix.php

http://ronsrestingplace.yolasite.com/lake-of-fire-second-death.php

Thank you for the links Ron, :signthankspin:

Excellent articles...:clap2: I really like the connection of sh'mayim with fire and water!

Here's an article Richard did on Spoke 21 of the Bible Wheel which corresponds to the letter Shin (http://www.biblewheel.com/Wheel/Spokes/Shin_Fire.asp).


Many blessings,

Rose

[Rose]

Very well-stated and succinct point there Rose. :thumb:

Here are a couple of articles I wrote on the subject of the lake of fire itself, as well as the connection with the molten sea.

http://ronsrestingplace.yolasite.com/fire-and-water-do-mix.php

http://ronsrestingplace.yolasite.com/lake-of-fire-second-death.php

Hey Ron,

As I was reading your articles on Fire and Water a wonderful insight came to mind concerning the story of "Lazarus and the rich man", and its connection with Fire and Water.

In the story if we view Lazarus as being symbolic of Christ, we can see a clear idea that is being presented....without the living water of Christ we are tormented by the fire of God, because that living water is what allows us to stand before our Holy God.
.
Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
.

Rose

[Edward Goodie]

Hi TruthSeeker,

I am so glad you have chosen to pursue this topic...:thumb:

God is a consuming fire, as such nothing but purity can stand in His presence! The saving work of Christ on the cross allows all who are washed in His blood to stand before the Father. In Christ our works in this life can be judged and redeemed, those who are not in Christ have no works done in this life that are able to stand before God, thus leaving only the person with nothing to show for the life that was given him.
.
1Cor.3:13-15 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Rose

Hi Rose. I have no problem talking about any topic unless Scripture is not present. Can't do battle with opinions...

To repeat, you said, "those who are not in Christ have no works done in this life that are able to stand before God, thus leaving only the person with nothing to show for the life that was given him."

You definitely state that the subject is "those who are not in Christ." It also seems that your refer to the foundation as being "leaving only the person." To me, Paul disagrees with you on both counts.

I am under the impression that 1 Corinthians 3 is written to the church, those already in Christ, Christians. You seem, if I understand correctly, that "every man" refers to all people in and out of the body of Christ. Please correct me if I am wrong here.

I think Paul makes it pretty clear that his audience in what he says to them in the following verses (including yours) are strictly Christians:

1 Corinthians 3:1 - And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

Admittedly, he believes they are very immature and have many problems, but he does address them as brethren and as babes IN CHRIST. To me, being "IN CHRIST" is a most necessary distinction in this verse.

Verse 5, to me, seems to add more evidence that these are Christians.

1 Corinthians 3:5 - Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

"By whom ye believed" is not referring to the unregenerate.

Paul goes on to talk how they, along with himself, are labourers together with God. Paul would not say this knowing Amos 3:3 and what he would base his understanding on in a future epistle to this same church (2 Cor 6:14-16)

1 Corinthians 3:8-9 - Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

The "every man" here is referring to all the laborers with God. They were God's husbandry. They were God's building (as living temples, the lively stones of the temple). These "every man" were part of the household of faith.

Paul now talks about their foundation and how it relates to Jesus Christ. He is very clear to state they had the right foundation, which is Jesus Christ. And he is very clear to warn them as to how they "built" upon this foundation.

1 Corinthians 3:10-11 - According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Now, we come to your passage which is a continuation of laboring with God with Jesus Christ as the foundation...I hope you see that.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 - Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

The works are described as adding to the already present foundation which is Jesus Christ. The "every man" in this passage, like the passage before, refers to those who already had Jesus Christ as the foundation and were working as laborers with God. The things (works) that would be done in addition to the already existing foundation would be revealed by fire. If those works still abide after purification, he would receive a reward. If they did not abide, he would suffer loss. But, because he (or she) still had the basic foundation intact, they would still be saved after the purification process was complete.

I can not go along with you in saying that "every man" applied to all people, those in Christ and those not in Christ because the context is strictly concerning those in Christ.

The next verse should bring it home real clear.

1 Corinthians 3:16 - Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Paul is not addressing unregenerate people.

I find that what Paul said is vastly different that what you said:

"those who are not in Christ have no works done in this life that are able to stand before God, thus leaving only the person with nothing to show for the life that was given him."

Blessings!

[gregoryfl]

Beautiful Rose! Thanks for that great connection! :signthankspin: And, although it should appear as obvious, if I were burning in a physical way in a fire, I would be asking for much more than a drop of water for my tongue. But mental anguish would explain it perfectly.

Ron

[Rose]

Hi Rose. I have no problem talking about any topic unless Scripture is not present. Can't do battle with opinions...

To repeat, you said, "those who are not in Christ have no works done in this life that are able to stand before God, thus leaving only the person with nothing to show for the life that was given him."

You definitely state that the subject is "those who are not in Christ." It also seems that your refer to the foundation as being "leaving only the person." To me, Paul disagrees with you on both counts.

I am under the impression that 1 Corinthians 3 is written to the church, those already in Christ, Christians. You seem, if I understand correctly, that "every man" refers to all people in and out of the body of Christ. Please correct me if I am wrong here.

I think Paul makes it pretty clear that his audience in what he says to them in the following verses (including yours) are strictly Christians:

1 Corinthians 3:1 - And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

Admittedly, he believes they are very immature and have many problems, but he does address them as brethren and as babes IN CHRIST. To me, being "IN CHRIST" is a most necessary distinction in this verse.

Verse 5, to me, seems to add more evidence that these are Christians.

1 Corinthians 3:5 - Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

"By whom ye believed" is not referring to the unregenerate.

Paul goes on to talk how they, along with himself, are labourers together with God. Paul would not say this knowing Amos 3:3 and what he would base his understanding on in a future epistle to this same church (2 Cor 6:14-16)

1 Corinthians 3:8-9 - Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

The "every man" here is referring to all the laborers with God. They were God's husbandry. They were God's building (as living temples, the lively stones of the temple). These "every man" were part of the household of faith.

Paul now talks about their foundation and how it relates to Jesus Christ. He is very clear to state they had the right foundation, which is Jesus Christ. And he is very clear to warn them as to how they "built" upon this foundation.

1 Corinthians 3:10-11 - According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Now, we come to your passage which is a continuation of laboring with God with Jesus Christ as the foundation...I hope you see that.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 - Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

The works are described as adding to the already present foundation which is Jesus Christ. The "every man" in this passage, like the passage before, refers to those who already had Jesus Christ as the foundation and were working as laborers with God. The things (works) that would be done in addition to the already existing foundation would be revealed by fire. If those works still abide after purification, he would receive a reward. If they did not abide, he would suffer loss. But, because he (or she) still had the basic foundation intact, they would still be saved after the purification process was complete.

I can not go along with you in saying that "every man" applied to all people, those in Christ and those not in Christ because the context is strictly concerning those in Christ.

The next verse should bring it home real clear.

1 Corinthians 3:16 - Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Paul is not addressing unregenerate people.

I find that what Paul said is vastly different that what you said:

"those who are not in Christ have no works done in this life that are able to stand before God, thus leaving only the person with nothing to show for the life that was given him."

Blessings!

Hi TruthSeeker,

Thanks for your input, and I see your point, but I view it a little differently.
.

1 Corinthians 3:10-11 - According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
.

I see the above verses as saying: there is no foundation other than the foundation of Christ that can be laid. To me that means that everyone that builds anything in this world must build it upon that foundation.
.


1 Corinthians 3:12-15 - Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
.


Paul goes on to say that those who build their works of wood, hay, and stubble -those works will be burned up. The main point that I see Paul making is what a person builds upon the foundation, so it seems to me that when he says "everyman" he is referring to all people, and the true test will come when those works are tried by fire. Further down in the verses he specifically say "ye" are the temple of the Holy Spirit, changing his focus from everyone in general to those he is addressing.


Rose

[Edward Goodie]

Hi TruthSeeker,

Thanks for your input, and I see your point, but I view it a little differently.
.

1 Corinthians 3:10-11 - According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
.

I see the above verses as saying: there is no foundation other than the foundation of Christ that can be laid. To me that means that everyone that builds anything in this world must build it upon that foundation.
.


1 Corinthians 3:12-15 - Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
.


Paul goes on to say that those who build their works of wood, hay, and stubble -those works will be burned up. The main point that I see Paul making is what a person builds upon the foundation, so it seems to me that when he says "everyman" he is referring to all people, and the true test will come when those works are tried by fire. Further down in the verses he specifically say "ye" are the temple of the Holy Spirit, changing his focus from everyone in general to those he is addressing.


Rose

I don't see the change in focus as bolded in blue. I believe you missed what Paul said as I stated before:


I think Paul makes it pretty clear that his audience in what he says to them in the following verses (including yours) are strictly Christians:

1 Corinthians 3:1 - And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

Admittedly, he believes they are very immature and have many problems, but he does address them as brethren and as babes IN CHRIST. To me, being "IN CHRIST" is a most necessary distinction in this verse.

Verse 5, to me, seems to add more evidence that these are Christians.

1 Corinthians 3:5 - Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

"By whom ye believed" is not referring to the unregenerate.

Paul goes on to talk how they, along with himself, are labourers together with God. Paul would not say this knowing Amos 3:3 and what he would base his understanding on in a future epistle to this same church (2 Cor 6:14-16)

1 Corinthians 3:8-9 - Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

The "every man" here is referring to all the laborers with God. They were God's husbandry. They were God's building (as living temples, the lively stones of the temple). These "every man" were part of the household of faith.

Could you address those Scriptures? It seems fairly plain to me that Paul had no change of focus...

[Rose]

Hi TruthSeeker,

You are right in stating that in 1Cor.3 Paul is speaking to carnal minded "babes" in Christ, but I see his words encompassing a much larger picture of the whole of mankind.

The foundation of the earth has been laid by God, and if mans works are not laid down in Christ upon that foundation....those works will be burnt up and all that will remain is that soul. That is the larger picture I see being presented in 1Cor.3:. I do not believe that the unbelieving soul is annihilated or cast into hell upon death of the physical body.

Rose

[Edward Goodie]

Hi TruthSeeker,

You are right in stating that in 1Cor.3 Paul is speaking to carnal minded "babes" in Christ, but I see his words encompassing a much larger picture of the whole of mankind.

The foundation of the earth has been laid by God, and if mans works are not laid down in Christ upon that foundation....those works will be burnt up and all that will remain is that soul. That is the larger picture I see being presented in 1Cor.3:. I do not believe that the unbelieving soul is annihilated or cast into hell upon death of the physical body.

Rose

Okay, then...