Is Christ coming again or not?

[CWH]

I would like to get feedbacks as to your reactions if Christ were to come again or if Christ were to not come again. I believe this is an important issue which all Christians should have ponder about. If Christ come again, so what? If Christ came long ago and will never come back again, so what? I believe Christians of differing faithfulness (I mean how strong is your faith), would probably response in different ways. For a start, I would write the probable responses to what if Christ is coming again or not, you may add to the responses:

1. What if Jesus is coming again now? or near future
.....Oh No, I am not prepared!
.....I am ashamed to see Him!
.....Let's run away from Him, run for your life!
.....Let's fight with Him or we will die!
.....Lord, Lord, forgive me, I have sinned
.....Let's go and meet Him
.....Lord, here I am, take me with you
.....Lord, I am been waiting for you, welcome!
.....Lord, why come so late?
.....Lord, please go Home and don't come back!
.....Lord, please come again another time, I will be more prepared
.....Lord, please let us know when you are coming next time ok?
.....Let's hide from Him!
.....Let's commit suicide!
.....Go away, why come back?
.....Nice to meet, you, welcome!
.....It's the end!
.....I am finished!
.....I hate to see Him!
.....Let's kill Him!
.....Still got time, let's start preparing now!
.....He is coming now, what shall we do?
.....If He is not coming, I might as well switch off
.....I have waited so long, I don't think He is coming, this is just a rumour
.....I thought He came in the 1st century and will never come back again


What if Jesus is not coming back at all?
....Let's relax and be complacent!
....Live your life to the fullest and Enjoy!
....Do whatever you want to do before you are dead and gone
....What are we waiting for?
....But remember, we will meet Him when we die
....Prepare yourself always, you will be judged when you die
....Why waste time waiting for Him?
....I might as well switch off!
....Good, no need to prepare for his coming
....I will not see Him in my lifetime, don't bother but I will see Him when I die
....I will be most surprised to see Him coming back
....I am always ready even if He never come back at all
....He already came, no need for Him to come back again
....Don't be silly, He will never come back again!
....We will never see Him coming
....Why waste your time waiting for Him? Relax

Which one is you?

Many Blessings to all.

[Rose]

Hi Cheow,

I am ready to be with the Lord, whenever and however that happens! Whether it be after my physical death when I go to be with the Lord, or IF He comes back AGAIN (He already came in power once at the destruction of the Temple), who's to say He won't come a second time :alien011:..... :winking0071:

God Bless

Rose

[CWH]

Now Rose,

You made me confused? :confused: I thought Full Preterist do not believe in a second coming of Jesus......or are you a partial preterist? :) ....hmm....or are you being influenced by my futurist's concepts; hope that goes for Joe and RAM as well. :winking0071:

Many Blessings.

[Rose]

Now Rose,

You made me confused? :confused: I thought Full Preterist do not believe in a second coming of Jesus......or are you a partial preterist? :) ....hmm....or are you being influenced by my futurist's concepts; hope that goes for Joe and RAM as well. :winking0071:

Many Blessings.

Hey Cheow,

Sorry for the confusion... :sEm_ImSorry:I thought I made it clear when I said IF....meaning who am I to say what is going to happen in the future? I fully believe that the coming of Christ spoken of in the Bible has already happened, but aside from that anything is possible....:winking0071:

God Bless

Rose

[Codger]

All of the Disciples firmly believed that Jesus was coming in their day. We should be glad that he didn't because if he did we would not be alive today. I really don't expect the Lord to come a second time until the great harvest has come in.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

All of the Disciples firmly believed that Jesus was coming in their day. We should be glad that he didn't because if he did we would not be alive today. I really don't expect the Lord to come a second time until the great harvest has come in.
So you believe that all the disciples, and the Scriptures they wrote concerning the coming of the Lord in the first century, were wrong?

That's what C. S. Lewis believed. He thought that the passages speaking of the coming of Christ in the first century were the most embarrassing passages in the Bible.

Personally, I think C. S. Lewis was wrong.

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

Hey Cheow,

Sorry for the confusion... :sEm_ImSorry:I thought I made it clear when I said IF....meaning who am I to say what is going to happen in the future? I fully believe that the coming of Christ spoken of in the Bible has already happened, but aside from that anything is possible....:winking0071:

God Bless

Rose
The so called 'union' army had a song made up called the battle hymn of the republic.... Mine own eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the lord... etc... which the people in northern sympathetic towns would sing as the armies marched through.

This was before the churches were judaised with the dispy doctrine... and it shows that they apparently associated Armies of righteousness..(whatever righteousness was in their mind) with the 'coming' of the Lord... 'again'.

But I speculate that even the hymn may have been written by the war-makers themselves to create a 'holy war'.

If the ruling of the Dred Scott Case would have gone in favor of the slaves being given the same rights as State inhabitants (and that similar to State Citizens except for voting) rather than 'property', it's possible the Civil war and it's amendments to the federal constitution and federal citizenry would not have had to have been made. It makes one wonder if that case was fore planned or staged to obtain the ruling and thus the subsequent war.

I just read a piece about a Revolutionary war pastor who was also a patriot and militia leader. I'm not sure where the line is drawn there with the apostles example against raising arms, (and the reward of the patience of the saints in Rev) but the example of their allegiance to Christ and to Peace (and Jason's in acts 17) should be considered.

http://www.truthinhistory.org/no-king-but-jesus-2.html

On April 18, 1775 John Adams and John Hancock were at the home of Rev. Jonas Clarke, a Lexington pastor and militia leader. That same night Paul Revere arrived to warn them of the approaching Redcoats. The next morning British Major Pitcairn shouted to an assembled regiment of Minutemen; "Disperse, ye villains, lay down your arms in the name of George the Sovereign King of England." The immediate response of Rev. Jonas Clarke or one of his company was:

"We recognize no Sovereign but God and no King but Jesus."

In this crucial hour of our nation’s history it is past time that the true saints of God give total allegiance to the Kingship of our Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. The crisis of the ages demands that we renew the historic battle-cry of our Christian Forefathers –

"WE HAVE NO KING BUT KING JESUS!"
Note the direct correlation and contrast to the proclamation of those the Pharisees sent to Pilate...even telling Pilate that he was no friend of Caesar if He let Jesus go...

"We have no king but Caesar"..

Note also James association with these words when he wrote that friendship with the world is enmity with God.4Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. (Context on what he's talking about from chapter 3)

5Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

"We are the world"... we are the people.....
Dan 7:26,27..

[Codger]

So you believe that all the disciples, and the Scriptures they wrote concerning the coming of the Lord in the first century, were wrong?

That's what C. S. Lewis believed. He thought that the passages speaking of the coming of Christ in the first century were the most embarrassing passages in the Bible.

Personally, I think C. S. Lewis was wrong.

There is nothing symbolic about Jesus' second coming. Jesus told his Disciples that there were two major Prophetic events ahead of THEM. First the destruction of Israel including the Temple of Herod and the city of Jerusalem. And second his coming in power in the heavens (second coming) Then he added an all important totally UNFACTORED and IGNORED disclaimer. He said that he didn't know the time of his coming as only the father knows the day and the hour. Obviously, the Father intended to delay his coming. Good thing or we would not be here today. So the Disciples and Apostles fully expected that Jesus was coming after the days of wrath. I would have assumed the same had I lived back then. All of their writings reflect this belief - which in fact didn't happen. None of them expected that time would continue after the destruction of Israel.

The fall of Jerusalem was not included in his conditional disclaimer and proceeded as predicted. The falling away happened, the man of sin appeared and the nation was destroyed. The man-of-sin historically was John of Giscala who desecrated the Temple and ignored the Holiness of God with all of the laws concerning the function of the Temple. He was a murderer and an anarchist who superseded the authority of God. He was using the Temple as a bloody fortress against the other two factions, who were destroying the City internally, while the Roman legions had the city under siege.

Larry

[basilfo]

Cheow,
It sounds like (based on your suggested responses to a future "coming") your motivation to live according to Jesus' teachings is solely based on a future earthly, bodily return of Jesus.

Jesus said: "If you love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15)

Why would a past fulfillment of the Parousia alter the spreading of the Gospel, loving your neighbor, having a joyful heart, being obedient to his Word, etc???

I often hear futurists ask preterists what they have to look forward to if the Parousia is past.

How 'bout living a life that is honoring and glorifying to Christ because of what He did for us all? If that's not motivation enough, it's a very sad commentary on their mindset.

Peace to you,
Dave

[Richard Amiel McGough]

There is nothing symbolic about Jesus' second coming. Jesus told his Disciples that there were two major Prophetic events ahead of THEM. First the destruction of Israel including the Temple of Herod and the city of Jerusalem. And second his coming in power in the heavens (second coming) Then he added an all important totally UNFACTORED and IGNORED disclaimer. He said that he didn't know the time of his coming as only the father knows the day and the hour. Obviously, the Father intended to delay his coming. Good thing or we would not be here today. So the Disciples and Apostles fully expected that Jesus was coming after the days of wrath. I would have assumed the same had I lived back then. All of their writings reflect this belief - which in fact didn't happen. None of them expected that time would continue after the destruction of Israel.

The fall of Jerusalem was not included in his conditional disclaimer and proceeded as predicted. The falling away happened, the man of sin appeared and the nation was destroyed. The man-of-sin historically was John of Giscala who desecrated the Temple and ignored the Holiness of God with all of the laws concerning the function of the Temple. He was a murderer and an anarchist who superseded the authority of God. He was using the Temple as a bloody fortress against the other two factions, who were destroying the City internally, while the Roman legions had the city under siege.

Larry
I'm glad we agree that Christ's predictions concerning the fall of Jerusalem were fulfilled. But I do not understand your interpretation of the "second coming." Your 2000+ year separation of the Parousia from the destruction of Jerusalem and your assertion that there is "nothing symbolic about Jesus' second coming" mystify me. Consider the description of His Parousia:
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Are you really saying there is nothing "symbolic" about the sun going dark and the stars falling from heaven? There is nothing symbolic about "coming in clouds?" We're supposed to interpret everything literally?

Also, how should we understand the words "Immediately after the tribulation of those days?" Obviously, 2000 years is not immediately.

All the best,

Richard

[basilfo]

All of the Disciples firmly believed that Jesus was coming in their day. We should be glad that he didn't because if he did we would not be alive today. I really don't expect the Lord to come a second time until the great harvest has come in.

Wow, that's some statement Codger. They not only "believed" it; they also wrote it by inspiration of the Holy Spirit in their writings that all believers (including you I'm sure) consider the infallable "Word of God".

But you say "he didn't".

Simple question: Who's right - you or the apostles?

[Screaming Eagle]

RAM wrote:
how should we understand the words "Immediately after the tribulation of those days?" Obviously, 2000 years is not immediately

Richard, What if 'those days' have not occurred yet?.

[Codger]

Wow, that's some statement Codger. They not only "believed" it; they also wrote it by inspiration of the Holy Spirit in their writings that all believers (including you I'm sure) consider the infallable "Word of God".

But you say "he didn't".

Simple question: Who's right - you or the apostles?

The Apostles wrote under the inspirition of the HS? I would say that Jesus said what he did by the HS. The Apostles accepted what he said. His message was that his second coming was the second great prophetic event in their future and was conditional on the Father, who was the only one that knew the day and the hour. It is still in our future today because of the fathers delay.

Who is right? Jesus is - as it is plainly stated. Why is this so hard to understand?

[Screaming Eagle]

It means what Jesus says it means. Pure and simple and not according to the doctrine of any men. I could make the argument that the 'coming' will be 'in power' AND 'in His Saints'. The picture is the suffering Servant first then the King/Lion of Judah.

[Rose]

It means what Jesus says it means. Pure and simple and not according to the doctrine of any men. I could make the argument that the 'coming' will be 'in power' AND 'in His Saints'. The picture is the suffering Servant first then the King/Lion of Judah.

Hi Screaming Eagle,

Jesus told His Disciple that every last stone of the Temple would come down! When the generation that Jesus was speaking to (including the Disciples) saw that sign (temples destruction) happen, they would know that Jesus had indeed ascended to His Throne in heaven, and was seated in power by the right hand of God. The fulfillment of that prophecy was the manifestation of the power and glory that Jesus now has!

Think of it this way: If a king told his enemies that he was going to destroy their city, and then he carried out and fulfilled that threat....would that not be a manifestation of the power of his word?

That is exactly what Jesus did! He told that generation their Temple would be destroyed, and when it was....that, in and of itself was proof that Jesus had the power to perform his Word! That was the sign He had accomplished that which He came to do, and now Jesus is seated in power at the right hand of God! The witness of the Temples ruins are still with us today to show the power of His Word.



God Bless,

Rose

[Screaming Eagle]

Rose, Thanks for your thoughts.

Rose wrote: they would know that Jesus had indeed ascended to His Throne in heaven, and was seated in power by the right hand of God.

Rose, He visited them day by day for 40 days prior to Shavuot/Pentecost. I don't think there was any doubt in their minds about Him having ascended to the right hand (place of power) of the Father. Are you saying that they didn't know that until 70 AD? It was His word that was spoken that destroyed that temple. He didn't have to physically be there. Also, there were stones left. The Western Wall (assuming it's the correct wall) are standing yet this day. That doesn't mean that the prophecy was not fulfilled for that part of Ma 24. I'm just sayin...
I DO have to ask myself if 'every word that proceeds from the mouth of God' must be fulfilled exactly as He spoke it. If that's true, there is much yet to be seen.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

RAM wrote:
how should we understand the words "Immediately after the tribulation of those days?" Obviously, 2000 years is not immediately

Richard, What if 'those days' have not occurred yet?.
Hey there SE,

How could that be? The text is perfectly clear that "those days" refers to the events leading up to the destruction of the Temple:


Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. 25 ¶ And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
I don't see any 2000+ year gap in the text. Do you?

Richard

[CWH]

Hey there SE,

How could that be? The text is perfectly clear that "those days" refers to the events leading up to the destruction of the Temple:


Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. 25 ¶ And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
I don't see any 2000+ year gap in the text. Do you?

Richard

Neither do I see any text "AD 70" or "in the reign of Emperor Vespasian" or "the Roman armies" or "Mount Pella".

Many Blessings.

[Rose]

Rose, Thanks for your thoughts.

Rose wrote: they would know that Jesus had indeed ascended to His Throne in heaven, and was seated in power by the right hand of God.

Rose, He visited them day by day for 40 days prior to Shavuot/Pentecost. I don't think there was any doubt in their minds about Him having ascended to the right hand (place of power) of the Father. Are you saying that they didn't know that until 70 AD? It was His word that was spoken that destroyed that temple. He didn't have to physically be there. Also, there were stones left. The Western Wall (assuming it's the correct wall) are standing yet this day. That doesn't mean that the prophecy was not fulfilled for that part of Ma 24. I'm just sayin...
I DO have to ask myself if 'every word that proceeds from the mouth of God' must be fulfilled exactly as He spoke it. If that's true, there is much yet to be seen.

Hi Screaming Eagle,

Prior to Pentecost the Disciples didn't have a clue about the power and authority of Jesus! It wasn't until the Holy Spirit was poured out upon them at Pentecost, that Peter received the revelation of Jesus on the Throne at the right hand of the Father.

Acts 2:32-35 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
.
It was indeed His Word that destroyed the Temple! Jesus did not have to come back physically to do that, and He didn't, but the very fact that He had prophesied to all those who heard Him speak at the Olivet Discourse of the Temple's destruction, and used that as a sign of His power was proof positive that Jesus was indeed the Son of God!

God Bless,

Rose

[basilfo]

The Apostles wrote under the inspirition of the HS? I would say that Jesus said what he did by the HS. The Apostles accepted what he said.

Yet another amazing statement by you, Codger! Just to be sure, you seem to be saying that the apostles' writings of the NT(that clearly teach that the last days", the "end of the age", and the Parousia - 'the coming of the Son of Man' - were contemporaneous and would occur in their generation) were not inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Before we continue, is that what you think?



Who is right? Jesus is - as it is plainly stated. Why is this so hard to understand?

Your position (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the apostles "believed" that Jesus would come in their lifetimes, but Jesus said otherwise. That leaves you with the conclusion that the apostles were wrong, and what they wrote about the Parousia in the NT was mistaken.

Before I call you a heretic, I want to make sure that is your position.

Sorry for the harsh words. I call it like I see it.

[Screaming Eagle]

Rose wrote:

Prior to Pentecost the Disciples didn't have a clue about the power and authority of Jesus! It wasn't until the Holy Spirit was poured out upon them at Pentecost, that Peter received the revelation of Jesus on the Throne at the right hand of the Father.

Okay, but how is it that this (70 AD) is also true? Do you think they 'knew' it in 33 or so but didn't 'know' it until 70 AD?

Jesus told His Disciple that every last stone of the Temple would come down! When the generation that Jesus was speaking to (including the Disciples) saw that sign (temples destruction) happen, they would know that Jesus had indeed ascended to His Throne in heaven, and was seated in power by the right hand of God. The fulfillment of that prophecy was the manifestation of the power and glory that Jesus now has!

Help me understand.

[Codger]

Yet another amazing statement by you, Codger! Just to be sure, you seem to be saying that the apostles' writings of the NT(that clearly teach that the last days", the "end of the age", and the Parousia - 'the coming of the Son of Man' - were contemporaneous and would occur in their generation) were not inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Before we continue, is that what you think?

Your position (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the apostles "believed" that Jesus would come in their lifetimes, but Jesus said otherwise. That leaves you with the conclusion that the apostles were wrong, and what they wrote about the Parousia in the NT was mistaken.

I was really pleased with Rose's perception on this. She had it right when she said that the Disciples didn't have a clue what was going on - until Pentecost - when they were imbued with power by the Holy Spirit. So how could they write under the anointing of the Holy Spirit? It was not given yet. Prior to Pentecost it was only spotty at best. Jesus said his words are spirit and they are truth. Jesus spoke directly to everyone's spirit. The Disciples lived in their natural carnal selves - until Pentecost that is. When they recieved the Holy Spirit then they were able to hear the voice of the Spirit. From this point on they did not live in their carnal natures - well, most of the time.

Example of what I am saying: We're both retired - you and I - not employed in any way. You ask me on Saturday evening if I want to go fishing. I tell you that I have to take my wife out of the country to visit her sister on Sunday who is dying of cancer. I tell you I will be back on Tuesday assuming that she doesn't die - if she does then we will be staying on for the funeral. Wouldn't you plan on going fishing on Tuesday? You always do because you don't know if the condition will really happen. God already knew of the long Parenthesis of over 2,000 years, but Jesus said he did not know when this would be - he wasn't told by the father at that time. The Disciples always expected the second coming after the Destruction of Israel. Most of them never lived to discover that time would exist after the first event was concluded. The second coming is the most closely guarded secret in the Universe and God is not telling anyone as it would greatly destroy the expectation that each generation has for his coming.

The reason that I used this for an example is because my sister-in-law died three weeks ago of cancer - age 57. She died on Sunday and was buried on Tuesday - we could not attend as it was in Rome and there was not enough travel time.

You cannot say that the Disciples wrote at that time under the unction of the Holy Spirit. The Synoptic Gospels were written approximately 20 years after the Crucifixion, after Pentecost, so they had time to correct or explain all of their mistakes or misperceptions. But the first event - the destruction of Israel was still in their future and the fact that Jesus did not return (second Prophetic event) could not be corrected. It would be dishonest not to report the record as it happened. I think the record is accurate.

The historical record says this...

Matthew 24:3-4 (NASB)
And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" [4] And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you.

They got their information solely from Jesus - not the Holy Spirit. And again he said there were two prophetic events to happen as I said before. The second event conditional on the agenda of the Father.


Before I call you a heretic, I want to make sure that is your position.

Join the club - JVC already calls my kind "Heretic" because of my Amillennial views. I guess every group has its heretics.


Sorry for the harsh words. I call it like I see it.

Well, there is good news for you then. After suffering through four years of financial difficulty after the Government shut down my manufacturing business with frivolous, capricious, unnecessary regulations, My financial situation has finally turned the corner. Now I am thinking about building a website. Writing on these forums is not very rewarding - so I want to do something that perhaps may be of interest to someone. No Forum though.

Larry

[basilfo]

Hi Larry,

First of all, my prayers are with you and your family concerning the loss of your sister-in-law. And I'm glad to hear you are turning the corner on your business life. Let us know when the website is up.



I was really pleased with Rose's perception on this. She had it right when she said that the Disciples didn't have a clue what was going on - until Pentecost - when they were imbued with power by the Holy Spirit. So how could they write under the anointing of the Holy Spirit? It was not given yet.

Why are you saying they wrote prior to the anointing at Pentecost? Yes, the historical events during Christ's ministry mentioned throughout the NT obviously occurred before the HS was given, but their teaching on the Parousia's timing was written after they were inspired. If you conclude that they were wrong, then you must not think the NT represents - in every verse - the inspired, inerrant Word of God.

When John said "It is the last hour", and "things that must shortly take place....for the time is near", when James said "Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.", when Paul said "for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come", etc. are you saying they were mistaken?


You cannot say that the Disciples wrote at that time under the unction of the Holy Spirit. The Synoptic Gospels were written approximately 20 years after the Crucifixion, after Pentecost, ....

These 2 sentences contradict each other. Since the Gospels were written after Pentecost, they DID write "under the unction of the HS". You lost me there.



But the first event - the destruction of Israel was still in their future and the fact that Jesus did not return (second Prophetic event) could not be corrected.

Could you give us chap/verse that teaches the "first event", and the "second Prophetic event"?

Thanks Larry. Peace to you.
Dave

[Codger]

I said what I said in the simplest way possible to me - you cannot underweight or ignore the fact that Jesus plainly said that he didn't know the time of his second coming, so you cannot permanently connect the two events together. That means that you can connect them only tentatively - until the passing of time reveals the will of the Father and the interval between. I say this because he is not telling anyone when this will be. (Second coming when the earth is burned and renewed just like Peter said it will be.)

There are huge groups of Christians out there who have an agenda - mostly learned. They are reading into the Bible what they want it to say. You have one group that thinks itself special because they say we must observe the Sabbath (Saturday). They can't grasp the fact that this was a good ritual that God instituted in order to show us the perpetual rest that we have in Christ. Type/antitype. Besides, whose rules do they keep anyway? Not the Jew's rules for sure. I have a book (Mishnah Commentary) of endless rules in order to keep the Sabbath. Example: if your house catches on fire on the Sabbath there are only certain things that you can take out of it. More than that and it would be considered work. In ancient Jewish times you could be stoned for working on the Sabbath.

Another group is offended by the Pentecostal movment and develops the doctrine of cessation. They have to twist and interpret scriptures into proof texts to support their agenda. And thus there is no longer any manifestation of the Holy Spirit - it is all in the past.

My denomination of record is opposed to any form of drinking alcohol. So they have to twist scriptures and history to prove that they only drank grape juice in Jesus' day. Rediculous!

Another group for some reason does not believe in the trinity. So they have to twist an interpret scriptures while ignoring a lot of other scriptures that do not support their views.

Another group cannot accept the idea that a loving God could send anyone to eternal punishment. And so they spend endless hours twisting the scriptures and interpreting their proof texts. God is loving, but there is another side - he is also just.

Some believe that Prophesy in the Bible was all written to us today and it all flies over the heads of those to whom it was originally written. These are the most confused people I know - and from whom I came. If you are not willing to surrender your present views or paradigm of God, you are basically unteachable by the Holy Spirit. Agenda's block the still small voice.

We are standing at the precipice of the great end time harvest of God and it seems that so many just want to talk argue about who the antichrist is and when is the rapture. It’s just a useless hobby. We ought to be getting ready for the reality of the calamities that are soon to be on us, which have already begun. These will be the great days of the Church. Its been prophesied that a billion people will come into the kingdom in this next big harvest. God saved the best until last.

Larry

[Richard Amiel McGough]

There are huge groups of Christians out there who have an agenda - mostly learned. They are reading into the Bible what they want it to say. You have one group that thinks itself special because they say we must observe the Sabbath (Saturday). They can't grasp the fact that this was a good ritual that God instituted in order to show us the perpetual rest that we have in Christ. Type/antitype. Besides, whose rules do they keep anyway? Not the Jew's rules for sure. I have a book (Mishnah Commentary) of endless rules in order to keep the Sabbath. Example: if your house catches on fire on the Sabbath there are only certain things that you can take out of it. More than that and it would be considered work. In ancient Jewish times you could be stoned for working on the Sabbath.

Another group is offended by the Pentecostal movment and develops the doctrine of cessation. They have to twist and interpret scriptures into proof texts to support their agenda. And thus there is no longer any manifestation of the Holy Spirit - it is all in the past.

My denomination of record is opposed to any form of drinking alcohol. So they have to twist scriptures and history to prove that they only drank grape juice in Jesus' day. Rediculous!

Another group for some reason does not believe in the trinity. So they have to twist an interpret scriptures while ignoring a lot of other scriptures that do not support their views.

I agree with all those comments.



We are standing at the precipice of the great end time harvest of God and it seems that so many just want to talk argue about who the antichrist is and when is the rapture. It’s just a useless hobby. We ought to be getting ready for the reality of the calamities that are soon to be on us, which have already begun. These will be the great days of the Church. Its been prophesied that a billion people will come into the kingdom in this next big harvest. God saved the best until last.

Larry
Who prophesied that?

I think it would be very interesting if you told us more about your predictions of a "great end time harvest" and the "calamities that are soon to be on us."

[Ed J]

Hi Everybody,

The "Second Coming" occurred on "Pentecost"!

1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is
that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.




The whore is riding the red dragon

The beast that that the whore of Rev.17:3 is riding is the great red dragon of Rev.12:3.
The red dragon is the (i am=23) that was, and is not (and yet is), and ascends out of the bottomless pit.


Mystery Babylon is the whore

Mystery Babylon: The mother of harlots is riding the red dragon (of Rev.17:3) because she worships the image told
by false prophet, which causes the whole earth to worship the antichrist's name of blasphemy: 'i am'=23. (Rev.13:1)
Mark 3:26: If Satan (i am) rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an 'end'=23.



Identifying the 'antichrist'

satan's=74 name is Lucifer=74 known as the 'great i am'=74 and is the 'antichrist' of Rev.13:1. (74+74+74=222)
Satan did rise up against himself, so his kingdom is divided and it cannot stand but hath an 'end'. (Haggai 2:22)


888 divided into 666 and 222 (Rev.16:19)

Rev.17:13: These with one mind are (physically) represented as satan divided
into the 'antichrist' (222) of Rev.13:1 and the false prophet (666) of Rev.13:11.
These are the ones that are declaring with one mind that 'i am' is their god.
The false prophet's image is [Ιησους=888] Ē-Ā-Soos as a flesh god,
which is called by the antichrist's 'name of blasphemy': i am.



Identifying the image

The image: which both the 'antichrist'(222) and the 'false prophet'(666) worship is...
[222+666=888] a false flesh god under the Greek name [Ιησους=888]! (Isaiah 53:12)


The image is a 'flesh return' of [Ιησους=888]

Rev.13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak,
and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.


Witnessing to the world in behalf of... (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)


http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (http://www.holycitybiblecode.org/)

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Identifying the 'antichrist'

satan's=74 name is Lucifer=74 known as the 'great i am'=74 and is the 'antichrist' of Rev.13:1. (74+74+74=222)
Satan did rise up against himself, so his kingdom is divided and it cannot stand but hath an 'end'. (Haggai 2:22)


888 divided into 666 and 222 (Rev.16:19)

Rev.17:13: These with one mind are (physically) represented as satan divided
into the 'antichrist' (222) of Rev.13:1 and the false prophet (666) of Rev.13:11.
These are the ones that are declaring with one mind that 'i am' is their god.
The false prophet's image is [Ιησους=888] Ē-Ā-Soos as a flesh god,
which is called by the antichrist's 'name of blasphemy': i am.



Identifying the image

The image: which both the 'antichrist'(222) and the 'false prophet'(666) worship is...
[222+666=888] a false flesh god under the Greek name [Ιησους=888]! (Isaiah 53:12)

I'm confused. Are you saying the Greek New Testament is of the devil?

[Ed J]

Hi Richard,

No.

Ed J

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hi Richard,

No.

Ed J
Then what do you mean when you say that the NT name of Jesus is a "false flesh god under the Greek name [Ιησους=888]!"

Are you saying that there is some other "Jesus" that is a false flesh god?

[Ed J]

Then what do you mean when you say that the NT name of Jesus is a "false flesh god under the Greek name [Ιησους=888]!"

Are you saying that there is some other "Jesus" that is a false flesh god?

Hi Richard,

It is spirit of 'antichrist' to say Jesus will come in the flesh, because he already came.

1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is
that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


Can you not see the systems of religion and the traditions of men
have buffaloed the whole world into believing this 'false image'?

Rev.13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast
should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.


The "Center verse" of the Bible (Psalm 118:8) brings this "Bible Truth" to light.

Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
Jer.17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man,
and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.


What's your take on this?

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hi Richard,

It is spirit of 'antichrist' to say Jesus will come in the flesh, because he already came.

1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is
that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

I don't see how this applies to futurists because they don't deny that Jesus came in the flesh. They simply say that He is going to do it again.



The "Center verse" of the Bible (Psalm 118:8) brings this "Bible Truth" to light.

Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
Jer.17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man,
and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.


What's your take on this?

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
That's an old internet rumor that's been debunked many times. The center verse of the Bible is not Psalm 118:8. The KJV Bible has 31102 verses. It has no center verse because this number is even. But it does have two verses at the center - Psalm 103:1-2.

All the best,

Richard

[Ed J]

I don't see how this applies to futurists because they don't deny that Jesus came in the flesh. They simply say that He is going to do it again.

That is spirit of antichrist. (1John 4:3)



That's an old internet rumor that's been debunked many times. The center verse of the Bible is not Psalm 118:8. The KJV Bible has 31102 verses. It has no center verse because this number is even. But it does have two verses at the center - Psalm 103:1-2.

All the best,

Richard


Did you count the verses, how do you know Psalm 118:8 isn't the center verse?

Ed J

[Richard Amiel McGough]

That is spirit of antichrist. (1John 4:3)

How is it the spirit of antichrist? Futurists do not deny that Christ came in the flesh.



Did you count the verses, how do you know Psalm 118:8 isn't the center verse?

Ed J
I have the entire KJV in a database on my website. Each verse is organized by verse order number. Genesis 1:1 is verse order #1, and Rev 22:21 is verse order #31102. You can check it out here (http://biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Database.asp).

There is a box at the bottom of the page that lets you search by verse order number. Put in 15551 ( = 31102/2 ) and you will see Psalm 103:1.

[Ed J]

How is it the spirit of antichrist? Futurists do not deny that Christ came in the flesh.

The essence is the same.
He has come in the flesh, The Second Coming was "Spiritual" and occurred on "Pentecost".



I have the entire KJV in a database on my website. Each verse is organized by verse order number. Genesis 1:1 is verse order #1, and Rev 22:21 is verse order #31102. You can check it out here (http://biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Database.asp).

Your data base is quite impressive, along with the Provable Patterns that you have discovered as well!

William Downie suggests there is a "Super Structure" and I believe there is as well.

A "Pattern of Five" in runs consistent in the AKJV Bible and also into The Greek (Five variants of Theos)
This extends into Gematria(The God Numbers=151: 26, 63, 74, 117 & 151) and Geometry(Block Geometry=151).

You also document a Pattern of Five in "The Bible Wheel".
Do you see any overlapping structure within the body of both our work?
Did you read the thread I Posted on your Forum called "English Gematria".



There is a box at the bottom of the page that lets you search by verse order number. Put in 15551 ( = 31102/2 ) and you will see Psalm 103:1.

I can hardly dispute the accuracy of your database.
But I do have a couple of questions for you; Richard.

First: You have the Gematria value of "The Spirit" listed as the same
in Both Hebrew and Greek. But the Hebrew value is lower than the Greek.
I'm sure you are much more proficient in Gematria than I, as I have to
use a calculator and it's hard for me to be sure which letter is which.

After reading the Thread I have started, are you now convinced of the
anomalies that I have illustrated, that there is Real significance to it?
With your database I'm sure you could find much more than I have found.

Secondly: Do you know why it was believed Psalm 118:8 was the center verse?
How could they have been that far off?



On a side note.

I have read your Presentation of "The Bible Wheel" on Shekels Forum, you have faced
way more opposition then I have presenting the anomalies I have discovered in the AKJV Bible.
I have also been in contact with Calvin(CCC), I'm pretty sure you know him as well.
The "only" opposition I have faced is on "Mainstream" Christian Forums.
I'm glad I've finally got your attention now.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

The essence is the same.
He has come in the flesh, The Second Coming was "Spiritual" and occurred on "Pentecost".



Your data base is quite impressive, along with the Provable Patterns that you have discovered as well!

William Downie suggests there is a "Super Structure" and I believe there is as well.

A "Pattern of Five" in runs consistent in the AKJV Bible and also into The Greek (Five variants of Theos)
This extends into Gematria(The God Numbers=151: 26, 63, 74, 117 & 151) and Geometry(Block Geometry=151).

You also document a Pattern of Five in "The Bible Wheel".
Do you see any overlapping structure within the body of both our work?
Did you read the thread I Posted on your Forum called "English Gematria".



I can hardly dispute the accuracy of your database.
But I do have a couple of questions for you; Richard.

First: You have the Gematria value of "The Spirit" listed as the same
in Both Hebrew and Greek. But the Hebrew value is lower than the Greek.
I'm sure you are much more proficient in Gematria than I, as I have to
use a calculator and it's hard for me to be sure which letter is which.

After reading the Thread I have started, are you now convinced of the
anomalies that I have illustrated, that there is Real significance to it?
With your database I'm sure you could find much more than I have found.

Secondly: Do you know why it was believed Psalm 118:8 was the center verse?
How could they have been that far off?



On a side note.

I have read your Presentation of "The Bible Wheel" on Shekels Forum, you have faced
way more opposition then I have presenting the anomalies I have discovered in the AKJV Bible.
I have also been in contact with Calvin(CCC), I'm pretty sure you know him as well.
The "only" opposition I have faced is on "Mainstream" Christian Forums.
I'm glad I've finally got your attention now.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Bump

[Richard Amiel McGough]

You also document a Pattern of Five in "The Bible Wheel".
Do you see any overlapping structure within the body of both our work?
Did you read the thread I Posted on your Forum called "English Gematria".

Hi Ed,

Yes, I read the thread on English Gematria. I had a good conversation with William Downie in a thread named for him (see here (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=787)). In that thread (and in this other thread (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=686)) I explained why I have concluded that English Gematria does not show signs of divine design (unlike Hebrew and Greek Gematria).

It would be great if you would like to discuss the reasons for my conclusion. But please understand, mere lists of identities are insufficient to discern between chance and design because any arbitrary assignment of numerical values to any alphabet would produce lists with seemingly meaningful coincidences. We need something more than lists. In my study of Greek and Hebrew, that "something" turned out to be integrated alphanumeric structures which I call "holographs." I have never seen a holograph in any language other than Greek or Hebrew, so those are the only two languages that show clear signs of design in my estimation.

All the very best,

Richard

[Richard Amiel McGough]

First: You have the Gematria value of "The Spirit" listed as the same
in Both Hebrew and Greek. But the Hebrew value is lower than the Greek.
I'm sure you are much more proficient in Gematria than I, as I have to
use a calculator and it's hard for me to be sure which letter is which.

I don't understand your comment. In Hebrew, the Spirit is Ruach = 214 and in Greek it is Pneuma = 576. Please quote exactly what I wrote so I can clarify it.



After reading the Thread I have started, are you now convinced of the
anomalies that I have illustrated, that there is Real significance to it?

No, because lists of identities is insufficient to discern between chance and design.



Secondly: Do you know why it was believed Psalm 118:8 was the center verse?
How could they have been that far off?

I don't know. It just looks like sloppy work exacerbated by a desire to find something "amazing."



On a side note.

I have read your Presentation of "The Bible Wheel" on Shekels Forum, you have faced
way more opposition then I have presenting the anomalies I have discovered in the AKJV Bible.

I think that is because the evidence of design is over the top with the Bible Wheel. It's just too obvious. It drives some folks mad.

All the very best,

Richard

[Ed J]

Hi Ed,

Yes, I read the thread on English Gematria. I had a good conversation with William Downie in a thread named for him (see here (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=787)). In that thread (and in this other thread (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=686)) I explained why I have concluded that English Gematria does not show signs of divine design (unlike Hebrew and Greek Gematria).

It would be great if you would like to discuss the reasons for my conclusion. But please understand, mere lists of identities are insufficient to discern between chance and design because any arbitrary assignment of numerical values to any alphabet would produce lists with seemingly meaningful coincidences. We need something more than lists. In my study of Greek and Hebrew, that "something" turned out to be integrated alphanumeric structures which I call "holographs." I have never seen a holograph in any language other than Greek or Hebrew, so those are the only two languages that show clear signs of design in my estimation.

All the very best,

Richard

Hi Richard,

Did you mean you did read through the entire thread Here (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1212)?

Ed J

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hi Richard,

Did you mean you did read through the entire thread Here (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1212)?

Ed J
Hi Ed,

Yes, I read that thread. But you never responded to the content of my first post (Post #2 (http://biblewheel.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14673&postcount=2)) so the conversation never got going. I had explained why I concluded that there is no evidence of design in English Gematria, and you responded by writing this:
Hi Richard

I have only recently been exposed to the Internet as this is all relatively new to me (forums, blogs, web sites etc.)
I have checked out the thread that you asked me to post on and have noticed (in my opinion) several points of importance that were missing.
I feel if someone is interested in the subject of 'English Gematria' and starts reading the other threads, they too like yourself, may get turned off and stop reading before they even get to my posts. Therefore I purposely started a new thread to start a new dialogue on the topic and not rehash some of the other points. Which I feel are a little vague and could be mistaken as important??

I really feel that this is a VALID field of study i.e. English Gematria, I know as I’ve been studying this for quite some time and have documented proof that if does play a critical role in proving the very proof of God’s existence though the English speaking world!

Ed J
After that, I pointed again to the reasons I had already written, but you did not discuss them with me. So the conversation never really took off. So I explained again my reasons in my last post in this thread where I wrote:
It would be great if you would like to discuss the reasons for my conclusion. But please understand, mere lists of identities are insufficient to discern between chance and design because any arbitrary assignment of numerical values to any alphabet would produce lists with seemingly meaningful coincidences. We need something more than lists. In my study of Greek and Hebrew, that "something" turned out to be integrated alphanumeric structures which I call "holographs." I have never seen a holograph in any language other than Greek or Hebrew, so those are the only two languages that show clear signs of design in my estimation.
I think it would be great if you would like to discuss the reasons for my conclusion.

All the very best,

Richard

[Ed J]

I don't understand your comment. In Hebrew, the Spirit is Ruach = 214 and in Greek it is Pneuma = 576. Please quote exactly what I wrote so I can clarify it.

All the very best,

Richard

Hi Richard,

It's at the bottom Here (http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Unity.asp) listed as 946.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Originally Posted by Ed J http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?p=19285#post19285)
Secondly: Do you know why it was believed Psalm 118:8 was the center verse?
How could they have been that far off?



I don't know. It just looks like sloppy work exacerbated by a desire to find something "amazing."

All the very best,

Richard

Hi Richard,

Why do you appear to blame me for this error?
I think it was never corrected after the Maccabees was removed from "Canon".

Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hi Richard,

Why do you appear to blame me for this error?
I think it was never corrected after the Maccabees was removed from "Canon".

Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hey there Ed,

What ever gave you the idea I was blaming you? That thought never entered my mind. The error concerning Psalm 118 has been around on the internet for many years.

All the very best,

Richard

[Ed J]

I don't know. It just looks like sloppy work exacerbated by a desire to find something "amazing."

All the very best,

Richard

Hi Richard,

Perhaps I misunderstood your words; what does this mean?

Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hi Richard,

It's at the bottom Here (http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Unity.asp) listed as 946.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Aha! I see the reason for the confusion. Here is what I wrote:

The Spirit ..................................The Spirit (Hebrew, Full (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/../GR/GR_Intro.asp#Full))
http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/../images/GR/00946G_TheSpirit.gif ....... = 946 (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/../GR/GR_946.asp) = ......... http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/../images/GR/00219H_TheSpirit.gif
To Pneuma ................................ HaRuach

See that word "Full" by the Hebrew word? You can click it for an explanation. It indicates "Full" or "Plenary" spelling, in which the value is calculated by replacing the letters with their names. Case in point:

The Spirit (HaRuach) = Hey (6) + Resh (510) + Vav (12) + Chet (418) = 946

Here I used the values of the names Hey = HA = 6, Resh = RYSh (510), etc.

Hope that helps!

Richard

[Ed J]

Originally Posted by RAM http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?p=20532#post20532)
I don't understand your comment. In Hebrew, the Spirit is Ruach = 214 and in Greek it is Pneuma = 576. Please quote exactly what I wrote so I can clarify it.

All the very best,

Richard


Hi Richard,

It's at the bottom Here (http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Unity.asp) listed as 946.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Bump

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I don't know. It just looks like sloppy work exacerbated by a desire to find something "amazing."

All the very best,

Richard
Hi Richard,

Perhaps I misunderstood your words; what does this mean?

Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
You had asked me "How could they have been that far off?" I was just trying to guess an answer. I was not thinking it had anything to do with you. I'm sorry if you got that impression.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Bump
Hey there Ed,

No need to bump so quickly! I had already answered before you bumped. Normally, we should wait about a day before bumping an post, since we all have lots of things going on and can not answer immediately.

Richard

[Ed J]

Aha! I see the reason for the confusion. Here is what I wrote:

The Spirit ..................................The Spirit (Hebrew, Full (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/../GR/GR_Intro.asp#Full))
http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/../images/GR/00946G_TheSpirit.gif ....... = 946 (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/../GR/GR_946.asp) = ......... http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/../images/GR/00219H_TheSpirit.gif
To Pneuma ................................ HaRuach

See that word "Full" by the Hebrew word? You can click it for an explanation. It indicates "Full" or "Plenary" spelling, in which the value is calculated by replacing the letters with their names. Case in point:

The Spirit (HaRuach) = Hey (6) + Resh (510) + Vav (12) + Chet (418) = 946

Here I used the values of the names Hey = HA = 6, Resh = RYSh (510), etc.

Hope that helps!

Richard

Hi Richard,

Talk about "Cherry Picking", the skeptic would go "Ballistic" with this type of an association.
The mere word "FULL" does not begin to scratch the surface of your method.
Perhaps you should explain your method on the appropriate Page?


Hi Ed,
mere lists of identities are insufficient to discern between chance and design because any arbitrary assignment of numerical values to any alphabet would produce lists with seemingly meaningful coincidences.

All the very best,

Richard

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hi Richard,

Talk about "Cherry Picking", the skeptic would go "Ballistic" with this type of an association.
The mere word "FULL" does not begin to scratch the surface of your method.
Perhaps you should explain your method on the appropriate Page?

Hi Ed,

It's important to understand that the "Full" spelling is not "my method." It is something that I learned from the traditional Jewish approach to gematria. It is common knowledge amongst folks who study Hebrew gematria. For example, this page (http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Grammar/Unit_One/Aleph-Bet/Ayin/ayin.html) from hebrew4christians discusses the plenary spelling of Ayin.

It's also important to understand that the Full Spelling is not foundational in any way at all. It's like a high level harmonic that echoes patterns already established elsewhere. It is not meant to convince skeptics and can be ignored without weakening the fundamental results in any way at all.

The fundamental results that support the idea that Hebrew and Greek were designed by God are based entirely on the holographs. They are self-confirming because the numerical values recur re-iteratively on multiple levels within a single verse with the numbers themselves cohering with it's central message. For example, the Unity Holograph is built on four nested multiples of the Number 13, and the Number 13 is the value of its central claim that the Lord is "Echad" (One), and the sum of the entire passage is 1118 = 13 (ONE) x 86 (GOD) thereby reiterating the meaning on an entirely new level.

I've never seen anything like this with English Gematria, so I have no reason to conclude that it is designed by God.

All the very best,

Richard