Son of perdition

[joel]

Jesus said in John 17 that He had "kept" all who were given to Him of the Father, except one, the son of perdition, so that the scripture might be fulfilled.

We know that in this case the son of perdition, Huios apoleia, was Judas the one who betrayed him out of the original 12.

Paul uses this expression, huios apoleia, again in II Thessalonians 2:3 but he adds another phrase along with it........man of sin, anthropos hamartia.

Paul explains in the verses that he has already told those at Thessalonica of these things and this discussion was meant to remind them of what he had said before.

The man of sin of II Thessalonians is = the son of perdition, huios apoleia.

His revealing (the man of sin, the son of perdition) was
hindered......or......something was holding it back.

Before this revealing was to take place, Paul said that first must come a "falling away", apostasia.

One group of believers thinks that this has already happened.

Others say that this event is yet in the future.

What is that which is..or was...holding back the revelation?....and what must occur (or did occur.....according to your perspective) to allow his revelation?

Joel

[Rose]

Jesus said in John 17 that He had "kept" all who were given to Him of the Father, except one, the son of perdition, so that the scripture might be fulfilled.

We know that in this case the son of perdition, Huios apoleia, was Judas the one who betrayed him out of the original 12.

Paul uses this expression, huios apoleia, again in II Thessalonians 2:3 but he adds another phrase along with it........man of sin, anthropos hamartia.

Paul explains in the verses that he has already told those at Thessalonica of these things and this discussion was meant to remind them of what he had said before.

The man of sin of II Thessalonians is = the son of perdition, huios apoleia.

His revealing (the man of sin, the son of perdition) was
hindered......or......something was holding it back.

Before this revealing was to take place, Paul said that first must come a "falling away", apostasia.

One group of believers thinks that this has already happened.

Others say that this event is yet in the future.

What is that which is..or was...holding back the revelation?....and what must occur (or did occur.....according to your perspective) to allow his revelation?

Joel

Hi Joel,

First, I think given the fact that Paul mentions the Temple of God gives us a big clue as to the time period (pre AD 70), because we know for a fact that the Temple of God (Jesus called the Temple His Fathers house) was still standing when Paul was writing his letter to the Thessalonians.
.
2Thess.2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
.
Secondly, the Thessalonians knew something that we today have no way of ever knowing today, because the text does not give us sufficient information as to the identity of the man of sin, but Paul admonishes the Thessalonians to remember the things that he told them when he was with them....that fact in and of itself points to a 1st century revealing of the man of sin.
.
2Thess.2:5-6 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
.
Rose

[joel]

2Thess.2:5-6 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.


Rose, what is withholding the revelation......whether it occurred then, as you say, or, later......what is withholding the revelation?

Joel

[Rose]

Rose, what is withholding the revelation......whether it occurred then, as you say, or, later......what is withholding the revelation?

Joel

We have no way of knowing what it was that was withholding the revelation, because the text does not tell us. Paul admonished the Thessalonians to remember what he had told them, when he was with them, concerning what was withholding the revelation of the man of sin. They were privy to information that is not available to us today, which directly points to an exclusive 1st century understanding.


2Thess.2:5-6 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.


Rose

[gregoryfl]

One understanding I have heard and find possible is that the High Priest was witholding this man of sin from being revealed, because the High Priest held the peace between the Jews and Rome, and it wasn't until the High Priest at the time, Ananus, was taken out of the way by being killed, that Rome finally reacted under Vespasian. The possible man of sin might be the one responsible for the initial uprising and chaos, John of Gischala.

Ron

[TheForgiven]

Greetings brother Ron. :yo:

I wanted to let you know that I think you may have hit on something very important. I read a few articles on the web about this "John" who led a group of Zealouts who do seem to fit the description of Paul's Man of lawlessness/sin.

Here's a fantastic article (among many) that explains the connection quite well. Apparently, Josephus records more detail than what most people know. IN FACT, the details are strikingly without contradiction.

Anyways, here's the article:

http://www.lostjabez.com/rapture/manoflawlessness.php

Happy reading. I'd post the details myself, but I didn't want to take credit for someone else's hard work.

To my futurist friends, if you are truly interested in learning about the Man of Sin, then read the article and you'll find this very difficult to refute.

Joe

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

Greetings brother Ron. :yo:

I wanted to let you know that I think you may have hit on something very important. I read a few articles on the web about this "John" who led a group of Zealouts who do seem to fit the description of Paul's Man of lawlessness/sin.

Here's a fantastic article (among many) that explains the connection quite well. Apparently, Josephus records more detail than what most people know. IN FACT, the details are strikingly without contradiction.

Anyways, here's the article:

http://www.lostjabez.com/rapture/manoflawlessness.php

Happy reading. I'd post the details myself, but I didn't want to take credit for someone else's hard work.

To my futurist friends, if you are truly interested in learning about the Man of Sin, then read the article and you'll find this very difficult to refute.

Joe
Thanks for that article:

I had been contemplating the association between Judas Iscariot being called the son of perdition, and the son of perdition mentioned in 2 Thess;

Along with the apostasy; the son of perdition would be the group of men/people who, like Judas, would have walked with the christian group in Jerusalem/Judea and then when they tired of being unpopular or hunted, persecuted; they put their hope back in Judaism and the leaders.

That which restrained I had considered to be the believers; and when they would have fled,those who remained would have been the "man" of lawlessness" meaning without respect for the Higher laws of the Creator, including being justified by faith.

However, this article is a singular example of the corporal principle and may be what Paul was referring to. The principle continues I think. Trust in mens teaching rather than the "Word" and worship of religion can be idolatry and can expose the true men of lawlessness.

When we don't follow the call and law of the Spirit or Life or good sense, we can also practice lawlessness, can't we...?...