IS CHRIST COMING AGAIN? OR HAS HE?

[TheForgiven]

I've been reading more writings of the early fathers, and I came accross an astounding document from St. Athanasius. I remember quoting this before, but I never actually read it thoroughly.

Take a look my fellow Preterist's. You will love this.


ST ATHANASIUS

(40) So the Jews are indulging in fiction, and transferring present time to future. When did prophet and vision cease from Israel? Was it not when Christ came, the Holy One of holies? It is, in fact, a sign and notable proof of the coming of the Word that Jerusalem no longer stands, neither is prophet raised up nor vision revealed among them. And it is natural that it should be so, for when He that was signified had come, what need was there any longer of any to signify Him? And when the Truth had come, what further need was there of the shadow? On His account only they prophesied continually, until such time as Essential Righteousness has come, Who was made the Ransom for the sins of all. For the same reason Jerusalem stood until the same time, in order that there men might premeditate the types before the Truth was known. So, of course, once the Holy One of holies had come, both vision and prophecy were sealed. And the kingdom of Jerusalem ceased at the same time, because kings were to be anointed among them only until the Holy of holies had been anointed. Moses also prophesies that the kingdom of the Jews shall stand until His time, saying, "A ruler shall not fail from Judah nor a prince from his loins, until the things laid up for him shall come and the Expectation of the nations Himself."5656Gen. xlix. 10 And that is why the Savior Himself was always proclaiming "The law and the prophets prophesied until John."5757Matt. xi. 13 So if there is still king or prophet or vision among the Jews, they do well to deny that Christ is come; but if there is neither king nor vision, and since that time all prophecy has been sealed and city and temple taken, how can they be so irreligious, how can they so flaunt the facts, as to deny Christ Who has brought it all about? Again, they see the heathen forsaking idols and setting their hopes through Christ on the God of Israel; why do they yet deny Christ Who after the flesh was born of the root of Jesse and reigns henceforward? Of course, if the heathen were worshipping some other god, and not confessing the God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and Moses, then they would do well to argue that God had not come. But if the heathen are honoring the same God Who gave the law to Moses and the promises to Abraham—the God Whose word too the Jews dishonored, why do they not recognize or rather why do they deliberately refuse to see that the Lord of Whom the Scriptures prophesied has shone forth to the world and appeared to it in a bodily form? Scripture declares it repeatedly. "The Lord God has appeared to us,"5858Psalm cxviii. 27 and again, "He sent forth His Word and healed them."5959Psalm cvii. 20 And again, "It was no ambassador, no angel who saved us, but the Lord Himself."6060Isaiah lxiii. 9 The Jews are afflicted like some demented person who sees the earth lit up by the sun, but denies the sun that lights it up! What more is there for their Expected One to do when he comes? To call the heathen? But they are called already. To put an end to prophet and king and vision? But this too has already happened. To expose the Goddenyingness of idols? It is already exposed and condemned. Or to destroy death? It is already destroyed. What then has not come to pass that the Christ must do? What is there left out or unfulfilled that the Jews should disbelieve so light-heartedly? The plain fact is, as I say, that there is no longer any king or prophet nor Jerusalem nor sacrifice nor vision among them; yet the whole earth is filled with the knowledge of God, and the Gentiles, forsaking atheism, are now taking refuge with the God of Abraham through the Word, our Lord Jesus Christ.

Surely, then, it must be plain even to the most shameless that the Christ has come, and that He has enlightened all men everywhere, and given them the true and divine teaching about His Father.

Thus the Jews may be refuted by these and other arguments from the Divine teaching.

There is so much to talk about in this writing. But did you notice the statement he makes, "Death....is already destroyed"

Come on my brothers! Sound off!

Anyone who thinks that Preterist's are a new breed are sadly mistaken. Now I've yet to determine if St. Athanasius is a FP or PP, but either way, he speaks the truth.

Hope you enjoy this articly.

HAVE A MERRY CHRISTMAS, and a HAPPY NEW CHRISTIAN YEAR

.....from one new moon to the next....

Joe

[Victor]

The Lord has come!

Merry Christmas!!


:grouphug5:

[CWH]

Yes, The Lord has come!

And He WILL come again!

Merry Christmas!!:yo:

[Edward Goodie]

I've been reading more writings of the early fathers, and I came accross an astounding document from St. Athanasius. I remember quoting this before, but I never actually read it thoroughly.

Take a look my fellow Preterist's. You will love this.

There is so much to talk about in this writing. But did you notice the statement he makes, "Death....is already destroyed"

Come on my brothers! Sound off!

Anyone who thinks that Preterist's are a new breed are sadly mistaken. Now I've yet to determine if St. Athanasius is a FP or PP, but either way, he speaks the truth.

Hope you enjoy this articly.

HAVE A MERRY CHRISTMAS, and a HAPPY NEW CHRISTIAN YEAR

.....from one new moon to the next....

Joe
.
2 Timothy 1:10 - But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Unfortunately, most believe the "death" that Christ had abolished [PAST TENSE] through the Gospel is physical death - despite the fact that everyone still dies physically.

[TheForgiven]

2 Timothy 1:10 - But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Unfortunately, most believe the "death" that Christ had abolished [PAST TENSE] through the Gospel is physical death - despite the fact that everyone still dies physically.

Good quote brother TruthSeeker. :thumb: I think you've found the perfect connection with Christ destroying death. Unfortunately, as you correctly pointed out, Christians in the past, as well as today, seem to focus on Physical death, and not spiritual death. They have not (do not) realize that Christ has renewed us, both inwardly and outwardly. Even though our physical bodies will eventually die, our spirits are being renewed each and every day. And as Paul states, "He who gave life to you shall also give life to our mortal (physical) bodies, through His Spirit who dwells within you...."

Is it the Holy Spirit that gives life unto all men, both spiritually, and physically, so that death no longer has dominion over us, but eternal life.

Such wonderful truths that some have a difficult time embracing.

Hope all had a wonderful Christmas.

God bless.

Joe

[TheForgiven]

Let's rehash this discussion. I think it's important for our Futurist's friends and brothers in Christ to gain a better understanding of the timing of Revelation. This is key because the timing of Revelation couldn't have come at a better time. So without delay, let us begin.

John writes:

Revelation 1:

9 I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”

YOUR BROTHER IN TRIBULATION

John is writing a letter addressed to seven Churches at a time when hope was being lost, persecutions were at an all time high, and an Apostle Himself was being sentenced to a prison located on an Island called "Patmos". Why was John being in-prisoned? Because, as he states, "of the word of God, and of the testimony [he holds] of Jesus...." This simply means that John was being persecuted because he represented a major threat to the spreading of Christianity. The Roman Empire was threatened severely from financial loss as the temple market profits began to decline. Emperor Trajan writes in a letter to Pliny the Younger explaining that the enormous expense the Roman government was enduring in hunting out Christians and placing them on trial was becoming a huge economical burden. Although Trajan's rule was after that of St. John, it shows that not many years after St. John, Rome began feeling the effects of economical loss due to the spread of Christianity. As a result of this growing threat, we have St. John as a "Fellow Brother and companion in this Tribulation...." This could only mean that the Christians abiding in ancient Asia Minor (now modern day Turkey) were undergoing some of the most horrific Tribulation they had ever experienced. Nero Caesar was a Tyrant who sought to rid the Empire of this growing threat to the Roman Empire. Christians were losing hope, most of the Apostles were killed, and Christ chose John to send a message of encouragement to Christians who longed and prayed for Jesus to send help. The response? The Book of Revelation.

MESSAGE TO THE CHURCHES

It's important to note that John specifically wrote to seven Churches in Asia Minor. It was they who were suffering intense persecution from both Romans and Apostate Jews. Knowing the fact that they were the original recipients of this magnificent book of visions, what relevance does it hold to them compared to races some 2000 years into the future? Let's put it like that. If you're hanging from a rope on a tall cliff, and the rope is ready to break, how much sense would it make to call for help, only to have someone say to you, "Don't worry! Help will come soon!" Only to find that help was not literally soon, but down the road? It'd make no sense right? Well then, I must ask my fellow brothers in Christ how, and why they feel that Christ was telling them (the seven churches), "I'm coming soon...." if His coming would not happen within their life time? Was He tricking them? Or giving them a sense of false hope?

It's very important for my Futurist's opponents to acknowledge a little common sense here. They were begging, praying, and hoping for help and relief from death and persecution that seemed to hit them on a daily basis, especially in Ephesus. Jesus sent them a letter of encouragement, not only to explain the reasons why they were suffering, but how their tormentors would eventually be killed, even though they themselves (the saints) would be killed. The goal of Christ was to let them know that they were being refined into pure gold, and that their faithfulness would lead to an eternal award in heaven. Thus, since the message was sent to them, it must therefore be "meant" for them.

What about us? How does Revelation relate to us? Much in every way. The generation of Noah's time had much relevance to the early church, and even today. Each generation serves as an example for others, be it reward or punishment. Certain circumstances existed with the seven churches that had to be addressed. Those same circumstances could apply to us as a lesson, be it to follow, or to repent.

Lastly, did you notice how John describes the voice of Christ as a Trumpet? That's something I wanted you all to take note of because it could either mean nothing, or have much significance in our understanding of the seven trumpets. Historically speaking, trumpets are blown when a city is being invaded. Revelation speaks of seven trumpets, hence, this must mean seven invasions. The questions remains, "attacks on who?" We know the answer is Babylon, the Great City. We preterist know and understand Babylon to be Apostate Israel, as even Josephus acknowledges in his own writing.

In conclusion, Revelation was written by John who was a fellow partaker in the Tribulation of the Saints. Jesus sent a message to all seven Churches to deal with specific issues with each Church (if any), and to explain to them the reasons they were suffering, and finally that He, although not literally seen with the eye, was in fact reigning among them, and unveiling His over-all plot to destroy both Beat and Harlot. Thus, He instructs them, "HOLD ON TO WHAT YOU HAVE UNTIL I COME....."

Trust me my fellow Futurist's. They held on to what little they had left, and Jesus came as He promised them....unless you want to believe He tricked them. I wouldn't if I were you. :winking0071:

Believe my friends....believe.

Joe

[CWH]

Let's not get history mixed up. Preterist claimed that the end of age came in AD 70, tribulation came in AD 70.


Joe said:
Although Trajan's rule was after that of St. John, it shows that not many years after St. John, Rome began feeling the effects of economical loss due to the spread of Christianity. As a result of this growing threat, we have St. John as a "Fellow Brother and companion in this Tribulation...." This could only mean that the Christians abiding in ancient Asia Minor (now modern day Turkey) were undergoing some of the most horrific Tribulation they had ever experienced. Nero Caesar was a Tyrant who sought to rid the Empire of this growing threat to the Roman Empire. Christians were losing hope, most of the Apostles were killed, and Christ chose John to send a message of encouragement to Christians who longed and prayed for Jesus to send help. The response? The Book of Revelation.

Emperor Trajan ruled from AD 98 to AD 117 and Emperor Nero died in AD 68. This means that Emperor Nero died before the tribulation in AD 70 came and Emperor Trajan came much later after the tribulation in AD 70 was over. Yet the Book of Revelation according to the preterists seem to account the events of persecution of Christians by Emperor Nero (the AC), the destruction of Jerusalem in Ad 70 and the persecution of the churches in Asia Minor in AD 70s. If that is the case, then the book of Revelation must have been written between AD 68 and AD 117. History did not account any tribulation of the churches in Asia Minor in AD 70's. In fact Apostle John was thought to have died in Ephesus AD 100's. Further more why would the tribulation happened only to the churches of Asia Minor when there were also many churches in other parts of the Roman Empire?

However, I do agree that the letters to the 7 churches of Asia Minor are a reflection of what the churches would face throughout the ages to come... false prophets, lukewarm Christians, backsliders etc. There is much to learn from the letters to the 7 churches in modern times.

Trust me my fellow Preterist's. Jesus will come again... I wouldn't believe God want to trick us but rather HE WANT TO TEST OUR FAITH IN WAITING FOR HIM....

Believe my friends....believe.

Many Blessings.

[TheForgiven]

Emperor Trajan ruled from AD 98 to AD 117 and Emperor Nero died in AD 68. This means that Emperor Nero died before the tribulation in AD 70 came and Emperor Trajan came much later after the tribulation in AD 70 was over. Yet the Book of Revelation according to the preterists seem to account the events of persecution of Christians by Emperor Nero (the AC), the destruction of Jerusalem in Ad 70 and the persecution of the churches in Asia Minor in AD 70s. If that is the case, then the book of Revelation must have been written between AD 68 and AD 117. History did not account any tribulation of the churches in Asia Minor in AD 70's. In fact Apostle John was thought to have died in Ephesus AD 100's. Further more why would the tribulation happened only to the churches of Asia Minor when there were also many churches in other parts of the Roman Empire?

The book of Revelation, in my opinion, was probably written sometime in 66 to 68 AD. Nero’s persecution was severe and causing some to lose their faith. Even John, according to two early church fathers of the 2nd century, claimed that John had been banished by Nero Caesar. So because they were suffering intensely, and some were falling away from the faith, Jesus appeared to John to deliver an important message to the seven Churches of Asia.

History did not account for any Tribulation during the 70’s? I’m not quite sure I’d believe that brother Cheow. For one, they suffered even during the days of the Apostles as far back as the late 30's AD. Look how many times Paul exhorted them to remain faithful despite certain members causing trouble. Look at Peter’s address to the 12 Tribes who were scattered among these nations, more than likely involving some (or all) of the seven Churches. And let’s not forget about John’s letter addressing the many Anti-Christs that were visible during his day.

My point brother Cheow is that persecution of the Saints began as early as few days, months, or even weeks after Pentecost, on through to the time frame of St. Paul’s ministry to the Gentiles. Peter exhorts his readers to remain faithful despite the fairy trials they were suffering. John in Revelation states (via Christ Jesus) that some within the Churches remained faithful, and did not deny His Name.

History more than records the Church all throughout Rome suffering. Nero Caesar was the first to persecute Christians in the Gentile world. Yet the persecution actually began in Israel by false Jews. And there you have it; both Harlot and Beast performing the same function…fighting against the Church.

Now if you’d really like to make things more interesting, perhaps you’d like to provide proof that Christians in Asia Minor suffered during the time of Emperor Domitian, being the time-frame that Iranaeus claims John may have seen the vision. You won’t find any as I’ve found very little information about major church persecution during Domitian’s reign. We know he caused trouble with the Church, but Trajan more than Domitian.

As for why only Asia Minor? I'd say that's not important. If one Church had those who committed adultery, should Christ then be compelled to have John write a letter to every single Church addressing the same problem? No, he chose those who needed rebuking, and/or commending, and they served as examples to the rest. Now one might also be compelled to ask why John didn't include the Churches in Israel. That was simple. They weren't there to receive the letter, obviously because of the war and the Christians were all fled.

Joe

[CWH]

Then that would mean that Revelation was written post AD 70 if not John would not be able to describe the destruction of Jerusalem and the aftermath. I am very particular of the dates of the reigns of the emperors of Rome as I find many mixups with the dates during our transactions and the dates will prove if Revelation was written before or post AD 70. I don't expect names of emperor of post AD 68 such as Trajan, Domitian, Vespasian, Titus to be mentioned if Revelation was written in AD 67 or AD 68. Furthermore,Christians were persecuted throughout the centuries from the first century till today.

Order of the Early Roman Emperors;

Emperors Augustus to Trajan 30 B.C. - A.D. 100

Augustus (27 B.C. - 14 A.D.)

Tiberius (14-37)

Caligula (37-41)

Claudius (41-54)

Nero (54-68)

Galba (68-69)
Otho (69)
Vitellius (69)
Vespasian (69-79)

Titus (79-81)

Domitian (81-96)

Nerva (96-980)

Trajan (98-117)


Many Blesssings.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Then that would mean that Revelation was written post AD 70 if not John would not be able to describe the destruction of Jerusalem and the aftermath.

John knew what was going to happen because God told him. Remember, Revelation was a prophecy. There is no reason to think that it was written after the events that it predicted.

[CWH]

John knew what was going to happen because God told him. Remember, Revelation was a prophecy. There is no reason to think that it was written after the events that it predicted.

Hi RAM,

I agree with you that Revelation was a prophesy. And that would also mean that the 7 letters to the churches of Asia Minor was also a prophesy of what problems the churches throughout the ages will faced.

Many Blessings.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hi RAM,

I agree with you that Revelation was a prophesy. And that would also mean that the 7 letters to the churches of Asia Minor was also a prophesy of what problems the churches throughout the ages will faced.

Many Blessings.
The fact that Revelation contains prophecy does not mean that the seven letters were a prophecy of the church age. That idea is not in the text. It may have some validity (since there are some striking correlations with church history) but you can not assert that it is true merely because Revelation was a prophecy. The seven letters were prophecies written to the seven first century churches. There is nothing in the text that directly suggests they were also prophecies about 2000+ years of future church history.

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

Yet the Book of Revelation according to the preterists seem to account the events of persecution of Christians by Emperor Nero (the AC), the destruction of Jerusalem in Ad 70 and the persecution of the churches in Asia Minor in AD 70s.

Many Blessings.

I don't think they (we) refer to him as the AC but the Beast that was in alliance with Judaism against followers of THE WAY. Jer 31 indicates that at the time of initiation of the New Covenant, the houses of Israel/Judah were to have been sown with the seed of Men and Beasts.

John is the only one who gives a depiction of a spirit of 'anti-christ' while acknowledging that there was much talk around about an 'anti-christ'.

[CWH]

I would like to re-phrase the title of this thread to" Is Jesus coming or not?"

What if Jesus is coming?...are you prepared? or are you ashamed to see Him?

What if Jesus is not coming back at all?....Let's relax and be complacent?

To the non-believer, there is no such thing as Jesus coming back or not. Live your life to the fullest and Enjoy. Do whatever you want to do before you are dead and gone.

What are you views?....anybody?

Hint: compare to the analogy of Is the boss coming back or not. What if he will come back and he will come back anytime?
What if he will never come back? What if there is no boss at all....

Many Blessings.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

What if Jesus is coming?...are you prepared? or are you ashamed to see Him?

What if Jesus is not coming back at all?....Let's relax and be complacent?

Being "prepared" or "complacent" has absolutely nothing to do with beliefs about Jesus coming back to earth. That is a carnal view of Christianity. Anyone could die at any moment and would find themselves instantly in the presence of "The Boss."

Anyone who "prepares" merely because they think "the boss might come back" has not understood the Gospel nor the reality of their fragile mortality.

[CWH]

Being "prepared" or "complacent" has absolutely nothing to do with beliefs about Jesus coming back to earth. That is a carnal view of Christianity. Anyone could die at any moment and would find themselves instantly in the presence of "The Boss."

Anyone who "prepares" merely because they think "the boss might come back" has not understood the Gospel nor the reality of their fragile mortality.

Hi RAM,

Actually, I was meditating on these parable and the motivation behind these parables:

Matthew 24:36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

45"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,' 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Many Blessings.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hi RAM,

Actually, I was meditating on these parable and the motivation behind these parables:

Matthew 24:36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

45"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,' 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Many Blessings.
Hello my friend,

That is a good meditation.

I was thinking about what I wrote in response to your questions and I found a better way to express it. Here it is:

Any one of us could die at any moment. This means that we could meet "The Boss" at any moment. To live as if we could "get away" with anything because the Lord won't come and "catch us in the act" is to live as an atheist. So our behavior as Christians has absolutely nothing to do with the idea of a physical return of Jesus Christ to the earth.

Now as for your meditation. I think the key idea is found in the words "they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away." This speaks of those who did not listen to the Lord's warning about the soon coming destruction of Jerusalem. The believers were saved from the destruction because they listened to the Lord's warning and escaped Jerusalem before it was destroyed in the Great Tribulation of 66-70 AD.

But I also think there is a general principle being taught in these passages that tells us to live as if we could meet the Lord at any moment because our lives are but a "vapor" that quickly vanishes away.

Many blessing to you,

Richard

[CWH]

Hello RAM,

That is your preterist's interpretation. My interpretation that it applies to us in which the Lord may come at anytime when we are doing our daily business. So we must be ready, wise and faithful when He returns.

Matthew 24:44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

45"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.

However, if you becomes complacent and do whatever you want cruelly and enjoying a care-free life, thinking that the "Boss" coming will be much delayed, then you deserved to be punished when He suddenly comes when you least expects him.

Matthew 24:48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,' 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Many Blessings to you.

[TheForgiven]

Matthew 24:48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,' 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Many Blessings to you.

Hey brother Cheow. You may want to reconsider your position on the above parable. Take a look at the context very closely. Key words are “away a long time”.

This is a parable of a sinner placed in charge of the Kingdom while the Master is gone. The tenant of the kingdom thinks he has a long time before his Master would return. So he becomes a cruel tenant and begins to abuse his subordinates. The Master then returns unexpectedly sooner than he thinks and catches him by surprise. Can this be thinking too far into the text? Not in the slightest because someone placed in charge of the kingdom while the Master is away will not be able to live beyond 100 years, give or take. If the point was simply to be ready, then there'd be no reason why Christ would have used an example of a shortly unanticipated return.

Think about it.

Joe

[CWH]

Hey brother Cheow. You may want to reconsider your position on the above parable. Take a look at the context very closely. Key words are 'away a long time'.

This is a parable of a sinner placed in charge of the Kingdom while the Master is gone. The tenant of the kingdom thinks he has a long time before his Master would return. So he becomes a cruel tenant and begins to abuse his subordinates. The Master then returns unexpectedly sooner than he thinks and catches him by surprise. Can this be thinking too far into the text? Not in the slightest because someone placed in charge of the kingdom while the Master is away will not be able to live beyond 100 years, give or take. If the point was simply to be ready, then there'd be no reason why Christ would have used an example of a shortly unanticipated return.

Think about it.

Joe

Hi Joe, You said it well, "Key words are 'away a long time'. How long is away a long time when we live eternal life in the kingdom of heaven? 100 years or 1,000 years or 10,000 years or more? In fact, the parable did not say about the tenant in charge of the kingdom, but it says in charge of his household. The point is we should be prepared and expect Him to come anytime and unexpectedly; we should be taking care of fellow Christians and not spend most of our time in complacent care-free evil ways thinking that the Lord's coming will be late.

Matthew 24:44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

Matthew 24:45"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.

Matthew 24:48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,' 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Think about it Joe, how long is away a long time in the eternal kingdom of heaven.

Many Blessings.

[TheForgiven]

Hi Joe, You said it well, "Key words are 'away a long time'. How long is away a long time when we live eternal life in the kingdom of heaven? 100 years or 1,000 years or 10,000 years or more? In fact, the parable did not say about the tenant in charge of the kingdom, but it says in charge of his household. The point is we should be prepared and expect Him to come anytime and unexpectedly; we should be taking care of fellow Christians and not spend most of our time in complacent care-free evil ways thinking that the Lord's coming will be late.

Charge of the household is the same thing as being placed in an authoritative position. Specifically, this parable was, in a way, directed as the Pharisees, Scribes, and Sadducees. They were in charge of the house of God (Family/Kingdom), but were living in sin. On the outside they appeared righteous with all of their rituals and works. But inside they lived a life of sinning.

The parable was not about eternal life in heaven, as you seem to suggest. Instead, it was about the one who knows the Master is away, but lives a care-free life and abuses the House of God.


Matthew 24:44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

Bingo! But how many "comings" does Christ have? The Futurist insists that this is a one-time event in the future. Well then, if we assume that the Futurist's are right, then logically, all could live as sinful as they'd like. For Christ has not yet come for more than 2000 years (based on the Futurist's paradigm).

The coming He is referring to is the coming of judgment upon the wicked that resided in ancient Israel.


Matthew 24:45"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.

This was a parable primarily attributed to the Apostles. It was they who were given charge of advancing the Kingdom, and tending to the House of God. And when He would return for them, as He promised them, they would receive their reward.


Think about it Joe, how long is away a long time in the eternal kingdom of heaven.

Many Blessings.

Again, the parable was NOT about eternal life in heaven. But about them awaiting the Master's return. The parable of the virgins explains this. The wise virgins kept their lamps filled with oil. The oil is a picture of the Holy Spirit. They are the lamp. And because they were filled/sealed with the Holy Spirit, His return would not catch them by surprise. On the other hand, there were the foolish virgins who did not have the oil for their lamps. They lived as foolish ones, similar to the tenant who did not expect the Master to return. And because they were not sealed with the Holy Spirit (oil), they were unable to recognize the times. Thus, they did not recognize Christ's presence in the first century when He came to gather His elect as promised, and to judge those who rejected Him.

Rightly did John prophesy when He said, "Behold! He comes with the Clouds and all will see Him; even those who pierced Him!"

Joe