TheForgiven
09-04-2009, 02:34 PM
Greetings everyone. I know it's quiet yet again, and so I thought I'd use these past few days to bring up another debate.
I came across a website that speaks against Preterism (no surprise there), and the author of this article seems to defend the Futurist position by stating Israel and the Church are not the same.
Here's a quote:
It should be simple enough to see that the Church has the favor of the Lord, Israel does not, this means the church is not Israel. They are not the same. Israel always consisted of Jews not of Gentiles and Jews, the church consists of both believing Gentiles and Jews which means the church is not Israel.
Link: http://www.letusreason.org/proph17.htm
I tried to email the author of the above website, however I could not locate his email address.
ISRAEL AND THE CHURCH
As shown by his statement, he views Israel and the Church as two separate things. In his misguided view, the author seems to think that Israel is strictly Jewish, while the Church consists of both Jews and Gentiles. Talk about racism. The author apparently does not understand what the New Testament is all about. The author fails to recognize that Paul himself was a Jew of Jews, a Hebrew of Hebrews, and a devout follower of the old covenant of Law. Yet Paul disregarded his former beliefs knowing that he was a sinner, and that no man can be found justified by observing the Law.
The author apparently fails to recognize that Paul stated to the Romans, as well as the Galatians, that a Jew is not defined by his fleshly birth, but his spiritual birth in Christ Jesus, via circumcision of the heart, and not the flesh. This circumcision comes from the Spirit, and not the letter of the Law.
The author also failed to realize, or at least understand, Paul's statement to the Galatians, that those who choose to worship under the old Israel (of flesh) would benefit all man if they would circumcise themselves away from mankind. He then states that all who believe as he does are part of the Israel OF GOD, and not OF FLESH.
The New Testament is clear in its distinction between fleshly Jews, and spiritual Jews.
Thus, the comments made by the author are, in my opinion, borderline heresy. To state that Israel and the Church are two separate things is the same as saying that Christ is king of a predominantly Gentile kingdom. How would the author then explain the words of Jesus who stated, "Salvation is of the Jews"? Considering the salvation we all share today is from the Jews, then the Church is not a Gentile kingdom, but a Jewish one, who's ruler is Jewish. Jesus is the corner stone of the Church, and thus the Church is Jewish. And since we represent the Israel of God, having been born through Christ Jesus, we are Israel based on spiritual rebirth, and not on flesh.
The two separate? I certainly think not! The author needs to pray fervently because what he's teaching is borderline blasphemy. Calling the Church a Gentile kingdom is to say that its ruler is a non-Jew. God help him.
Sound off my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus.
Joe
I came across a website that speaks against Preterism (no surprise there), and the author of this article seems to defend the Futurist position by stating Israel and the Church are not the same.
Here's a quote:
It should be simple enough to see that the Church has the favor of the Lord, Israel does not, this means the church is not Israel. They are not the same. Israel always consisted of Jews not of Gentiles and Jews, the church consists of both believing Gentiles and Jews which means the church is not Israel.
Link: http://www.letusreason.org/proph17.htm
I tried to email the author of the above website, however I could not locate his email address.
ISRAEL AND THE CHURCH
As shown by his statement, he views Israel and the Church as two separate things. In his misguided view, the author seems to think that Israel is strictly Jewish, while the Church consists of both Jews and Gentiles. Talk about racism. The author apparently does not understand what the New Testament is all about. The author fails to recognize that Paul himself was a Jew of Jews, a Hebrew of Hebrews, and a devout follower of the old covenant of Law. Yet Paul disregarded his former beliefs knowing that he was a sinner, and that no man can be found justified by observing the Law.
The author apparently fails to recognize that Paul stated to the Romans, as well as the Galatians, that a Jew is not defined by his fleshly birth, but his spiritual birth in Christ Jesus, via circumcision of the heart, and not the flesh. This circumcision comes from the Spirit, and not the letter of the Law.
The author also failed to realize, or at least understand, Paul's statement to the Galatians, that those who choose to worship under the old Israel (of flesh) would benefit all man if they would circumcise themselves away from mankind. He then states that all who believe as he does are part of the Israel OF GOD, and not OF FLESH.
The New Testament is clear in its distinction between fleshly Jews, and spiritual Jews.
Thus, the comments made by the author are, in my opinion, borderline heresy. To state that Israel and the Church are two separate things is the same as saying that Christ is king of a predominantly Gentile kingdom. How would the author then explain the words of Jesus who stated, "Salvation is of the Jews"? Considering the salvation we all share today is from the Jews, then the Church is not a Gentile kingdom, but a Jewish one, who's ruler is Jewish. Jesus is the corner stone of the Church, and thus the Church is Jewish. And since we represent the Israel of God, having been born through Christ Jesus, we are Israel based on spiritual rebirth, and not on flesh.
The two separate? I certainly think not! The author needs to pray fervently because what he's teaching is borderline blasphemy. Calling the Church a Gentile kingdom is to say that its ruler is a non-Jew. God help him.
Sound off my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus.
Joe