SHECHEM

[yinonyavo]

PLEASE HELP!!
For years I have been trying to clarify the significance of SHECHEM, but I can't quite get all the way there. So I would appreciate any thoughts from you all....... I will provide below all related scriptures and thoughts I have collected thus far. If it seems dis-jointed, thats because IT IS!! I'll make a lot of LARGE detours, because somehow, these things also seem to fit into the mystery. So if you don't see where I'm going, that's because I'm not sure either!! OK here goes:

SHECHEM is also called Sichem (Ge 12:6) and Sychem (Ac 7:16) It stood in the narrow sheltered valley between Ebal on the north and Gerizim on the south, these mountains at their base being only some 500 yards apart. Here Abraham pitched his tent and built his first altar in the Promised Land, and received the first divine promise #Ge 12:6,7. Shechem was one of the three cities of refuge on the west side of the Jordan and also a Levitical city (Josh 20:7; 21:21; 1 Chr 6:67). It was the site where the Israelites were instructed to go FIRST when they entered the promised land. There, the covenant was renewed and the promised and curses were read from the two mounts. Near by was Shiloh (also in the tribe of Ephraim, the named firstborn and inheritor of the name Israel) and there the Ark stayed for the first 400 years or so until the northern tribes became so corrupt that God had David move the ark to Jerusalem in Judah.

The subject of Shechem also relates to the thread on the discussion of "who is Israel", for although the Messiah and Kingship was to be through Judah, the birthright of the firstborn (which took with the NAME Israel) was passed from Isaac to Jacob to Josheph's son Ephraim.

1Ch 5:1-2 Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father’s bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright. For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph‘s:)

The word shechem means SHOULDER. One of the reasons I find it to be of great interest, besides all the numerous significant events that happened there, is because it is the place (or THING, if taken spiritually) given to Ephraim as his extra PORTION, the double portion allotted to the FIRSTBORN.

Ge 48:22 Moreover I have given to thee one portion above thy brethren, which I took out of the hand of the Amorite with my sword and with my bow.

The specific Hebrew phrase here is "shechem achad". Some commentators consider it refers to the literal town of Shechem. Others find the whole verse curious, for Shechem was not taken by the sword…..and whenever a verse is found by all commentators a mystery …..I always wonder if the meaning is a prophecy whose meaning must be found in the spiritual meaning of the words. The phrase "shechem ached" is found only one other place in scripture and is there translated "one consent" or in some translations, more literally, as "one shoulder".

Zep 3: 9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent (with one shoulder).10 From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.11 In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast ransgressed against me: for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.12 I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the LORD.

From the contents it is apparent that this is at the time when the gentiles (and depending on your view of exactly WHO the gentiles are, either backslidden Israel in the 10 scattered tribes and those with whom they had mingled themselves, or spiritual Israel/the church, who was symbolized by Hosea prophesying to Ephraim) and Judah are united as the one new man Christ talks about.

Ho 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
Ho 2:23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.
Ro 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Ro 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.


Much of what is called the "mystery" of the gospel in the New Testament concerns this breaking down of the wall of partition between the Jews and Gentiles. Some case can be made that this is the same as the reunion of Ephraim and Judah, the two sticks, as the then scattered tribes were considered gentiles. In any case, the prayer of Christ in John is all about that they may be ONE….and the fulfillment at Pentecost was also that they were all in ONE ACCORD (i.e. ONE CONSENT). …and of course that oneness is not only with each other but with Christ and the Father.

The idea of the inheritance of the "double portion" being associated with the fullness of the Holy Spirit that the Church received at Pentecost is not a new one and neither is Ephraim as a type of the Church because of Hosea's prophecy. However, I have never heard anyone speak of the "shechem achad" inheritance given to Ephraim as his extra portion as being the "ONENESS" of spirit given to the church. Anyone see where I'm going with this???? Does it make any sense to you?? If that were the case then the rest of that verse (if it is a prophecy of the church) which otherwise makes no sense could make sense symbolically.

"which I took out of the hand of the Amorite with my sword and with my bow."

I'll let others speculate on this before I give my thoughts. Then I'll continue.......:pop2:

[joel]

YinonYavo,
you did quite a bit of study on the subject; Shechem. I read through it with great interest, appreciating the detail of your findings.

I do not have anything, at this time, concerning the double portion of Ephraim, but am looking forward to the contribution of others, as well as the sequel by you to your own posting.

As to the subject; Shechem, I would submit this comment;
When Abram was called out of Ur of Chaldees, he was led out of his country to a land in which he did not formerly reside.
He is the "Father of the faith" in that God's dealings with him established the original groundword of faith for all; Jew and Gentile alike.
I see the process of calling him out, and bringing him in, to be likened to the process we, today, experience in what Paul teaches is "justification"; being made right with God, being made just, conferring righteousness. That was true of Abram as well. He believed in the God that justifies the ungodly. (Romans 4:5).

Shechem is the initial place, inside the land of Canaan, where Abram pitched his tent, and made an altar (as you pointed out).

What then would Shechem represent to us?

I say that it could spiritually represent the cross of Christ. I say that because He first shed His blood, starting in the garden of Gethsamane, and then continued to shed His blood all through His journey to the actual cross.
The blood speaks of justification, and can be compared to the process of taking Abram out of his land, into the new land. We, likewise, are translated out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light.

The blood is for our sins.

The cross, and His death upon the "tree", is for the death of the flesh, and the strength thereof (the shoulder representing strength of the flesh). I note that he did not tarry in Shechem, but moved without delay to pitch his tent midway between Bethel (the house of God), and, Ai (a heap of ruins).

Jesus was taken from the cross that day, without delay. This being the reality of the foreshadowing in Deuteronomy 21:22,23.

The cross is where we return, time after time, to ultimately see ourselves crucified together with Him.

Joel

[shalag]

PLEASE HELP!!
For years I have been trying to clarify the significance of SHECHEM, but I can't quite get all the way there. So I would appreciate any thoughts from you all....... I will provide below all related scriptures

SHECHEM is also called Sichem (Ge 12:6) and Sychem (Ac 7:16)

Genesis (1) 12:6 (18) = 19 KUF/ HOLY
Acts (44) 7:16 (23) = 67/ 19th prime/ KUF/ HOLY


It stood in the narrow sheltered valley between Ebal on the north and Gerizim on the south, these mountains at their base being only some 500 yards apart. Here Abraham pitched his tent and built his first altar in the Promised Land, and received the first divine promise #Ge 12:6,7.

Genesis (1) 12:6 (18) = 19/ KUF/ HOLY
Genesis (1) 12:7 (19) = 20/ HEAD


Shechem was one of the three cities of refuge on the west side of the Jordan and also a Levitical city (Josh 20:7; 21:21; 1 Chr 6:67).

Joshua (6) 20:7 (27) = 33 (3x11)
Joshua (6) 21:21 (42) = 48 2(4)x3
1Chronicles (13) 6:67 (73) = 86 (2x43)


1Ch 5:1-2 Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father’s bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright. For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph‘s:)

1Chronicles (13) 5:1 (6) = 19/ KUF/ HOLY
1Chronicles (13) 5:2 (7) = 20 / REISH / HEAD


Ge 48:22 Moreover I have given to thee one portion above thy brethren, which I took out of the hand of the Amorite with my sword and with my bow.

Genesis (1) 48:22 = (71/ 20th prime/ REISH/ HEAD)


The specific Hebrew phrase here is "shechem achad". Some commentators consider it refers to the literal town of Shechem. Others find the whole verse curious, for Shechem was not taken by the sword…..and whenever a verse is found by all commentators a mystery …..I always wonder if the meaning is a prophecy whose meaning must be found in the spiritual meaning of the words.

:yo: I just used Richard's gematria base: shechem (360) achad (13): 373:D


Zep 3: 9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent (with one shoulder).10 From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.11 In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast ransgressed against me: for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.12 I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the LORD.

Zephaniah (36) 3:9 (12) = 48 (2(4)x3)
Zephaniah (36) 3:10 (13) = 49 (7x7)
Zephaniah (36) 3:11 (14) = 50 (2x5(2)
Zephaniah (36) 3:12 (15) = 51 (3x17)


Ho 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Hosea (28) 1:10 (11) = 39 (3x13)
3 GIMEL 13 MEM / the first time this word GM is used is in Genesis (1) 3:6 (9) (10) when the woman ate from the tree. 13 is also the 6th prime/ VAV


Ho 2:23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.

Hosea (28) 2:23 (25) = 53 (16th prime/AYIN)


Ro 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Ro 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Romans (45) 9:25 (34) = 79 / 22nd prime/TAV
Romans (45) 9:26 (35) = 80 (2(4)x5) / PEI
See Strong's #8596 and associated Scriptures

The only 'big clue' I'm seeing at present is 373:attention:
and I will let Richard comment on that - --
And the 19 & 20's that predominate - KUF/REISH See Strong's #7119 -7120 and associated Scriptures
Otherwise for me - the 3x11 I know means something BIG - but I just don't know what it is! :confused2:

[yinonyavo]

Very observant Shalag on the 373.....I was going to save that for later....but since you brought it up I will add a little to it.....

Ezekiel: 6-8 And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.
.......8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.

Joel said:

I say that it could spiritually represent the cross of Christ. I say that because He first shed His blood....

373 - "I said unto thee when thou was in thy BLOOD"
373 - "I sware"
373 - "Shechem achad"
373 - "logos"

other phrases in this passage that will be of note later are
"covered thy nakedness"
and
the subject of the covenant

[yinonyavo]

Well, here goes. I'm going to TRY to keep each post short and to a single point. I know for myself, my brain tends to get too overloaded when dealing with too long of a post, and I end up not reading any of it……..

I'm going to start with the Hebrew word Shechem, and then dissecting the parts of the word SHECHEM

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +
As a proper name of the city or the man it is found 66 times:
Strong's 7927 & 7928
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +
As the word on which the proper name is based, the word for shoulder (Strong's 7926) it is found 22 times:
Gesenius's Lexicon:
……The shoulder, or rather the hinder part of both shoulder-blades, or the upper part of the back next below the neck…..…..(a) the member on which a load to be borned is laid, Job 31:36. Isaiah 9:5, "the government shall be upon his shoulders"….laid on him as a load to bear. Isaiah 22:22, "I will lay the key of the house of David upon his shoulder"….
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++
The root and other variations are found 66 times (Strong's 7925 & 7929)
Gesenius's Lexicon:
Hiphil - to rise early in the morning……(Pr. Perhaps to put a load on camels…..)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++

66 -22 -66 .....great biblewheel numbers eh?

The idea of burden being carried is the important one I think..........

[joel]

Yinonyavo said;

"The idea of burden being carried is the important one I think.........."
-------------------------------- ------------------------------------

There are many cross-references in the NT to correlate with "burden being carried" which can be tied into the Cross of Christ;

especially where Jesus exhorts His disciples to pick up their cross daily and follow after Him.

Joel

[yinonyavo]

Shechem then, is more properly the whole shoulder across the back or the area "between the shoulders" where a load or burden would be carried. There is another word for the individual area of the shoulder proper, which is Kataph. There is also another word for the back.

Now on to dissect the make up of the word SHECHEM spelled
SHIN - KAF - MEM

SHIN:
The Hebrew letter "SHIN" is literally a TOOTH. Although this letter is not used as a regular prefix in the Hebrew, a case can be made that it is, in certain words, and has the meaning of "biting", "between", "in the midst of" or "dividing in two" when placed as a prefix. The Hebrew word for Heaven is one such case. The heavens (Hebrew sh - mayim) were made by diving the waters (Hebrew - "mayim") in two (above and below). i.e. the heavens were between or in the midst of the waters. So it is the word mayim (water) with the letter shin added as a prefix. (maybe someone can find other examples)

KAF - MEM:
As for the - KAF - MEM, there are a number of Hebrew roots ending in the letter mem which carry the meaning of "closed up", "conceal", "silent", "enclosed", "heaped up", etc., for the character of the sound "M" is with a shut up or closed mouth. Many English words reflect this (this could go in the Hebrew cognates thread). For instance
Strong's 1748 damam..to be silent, English: dumb
Other closed mouth English words: hum, mum, gum, etc.

The particular Hebrew words from the root c/k*mm usually mean heaped up, or gathered in the sense of a group of people, etc., hence the English words COMMunity, COMMune, COMpartment, COMbine, COMpact, COMpany, COMpose, COMpound, COMpress, COMpile, etc.

We have the Hebrew word KiMah which is the Pleiades and means a heap or cluster, Strong's 3598. (See Gesenius's Lexicon here on the root KUM)

++++++++++++++++++++++++

Together we have: SHIN (between) + KAF - MEM (the heaps), which is exactly the meaning of shechem, "between the heaps(of the shoulders, the shoulders being shaped like a heap or hill on each side)"

[yinonyavo]

So, now we have this image of two heaps with something in the middle and the idea of gathering, enclosing, hiding or concealment. Consider this verse about the prophecy to Benjamin:

De 33:12 …The beloved of the LORD shall dwell in safety by him; and the LORD shall cover him all the day long, and he shall dwell between his shoulders.

Now consider that the city of Shechem was situated between two hills (heaps, if you will), Mount Ebal and Mount Gerizim. It was also a city of refuge:
Jos 21:21 For they gave them Shechem with her suburbs in mount Ephraim, to be a city of refuge for the slayer;

In Deut. 27 we have the event of the blessings and cursings from these two hills on either side of Shechem, the place where God had instructed the Israelites to go first when they entered the promised land:

De 11:29 And it shall come to pass, when the LORD thy God hath brought thee in unto the land whither thou goest to possess it, that thou shalt put the blessing upon mount Gerizim, and the curse upon mount Ebal.

Deut 27:12 These shall stand upon mount Gerizim to bless the people,
when ye are come over Jordan; Simeon, and Levi, and Judah, and
Issachar, and Joseph, and Benjamin: 13 And these shall stand upon
mount Ebal to curse; Reuben, Gad, and Asher, and Zebulun, Dan, and
Naphtali.

So, again we see an image of the literal city of Shechem matches the meaning of the word from which its name is derived. …that of two "heaps (in two senses: the hills themselves and the two groups of tribes gathered on them)" with a refuge , safe place, i.e. covering (the refuge city of Shechem) between.

Now a little bit of searching the scriptures will find this image in other important events or images.

1. The indiscretion of Noah is "covered" (covered his nakedness actually….remember that phrase from the afore mention verse) and the covering is carried on the shoulders of his sons:

Ge 9:23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness.

This is very much like when the Levites prepared to move the Ark….they took down the covering off the four pillars which separated the Holy of Holies and walked backwards with the covering so as not to look upon the Ark. The ark was then born upon the SHOULDERS for transport.

2. The high priests garments were composed of the two shoulder stones, each with 6 tribal names (just like the 6 tribes on mount Ebal and Gerizim) and the breastplate between bearing the judgment of the children of Israel.


Ex 28: 9-10 And thou shalt take two onyx stones, and grave on them the names of the
children of Israel:10 Six of their names on one stone, and the other six names of the rest
on the other stone, according to their birth.
Ex 28:30 And thou shalt put in the breastplate of judgment the Urim and the Thummim; and they shall be upon Aaron’s heart, when he goeth in before the LORD: and Aaron shall bear the judgment of the children of Israel upon his heart before the LORD continually.

3. The passing through the red sea and the River Jordan also bear this exact same image. God "heaped" up the waters on each side and they passed in SAFETY between the waters.

Ps 78:13 He divided the sea, and caused them to pass through; and he made the waters to stand as an heap.
Joshua3:13 And it shall come to pass, as soon as the soles of the feet of the priests that bear the ark of the LORD, the Lord of all the earth, shall rest in the waters of Jordan, that the waters of Jordan shall be cut off from the waters that come down from above; and they shall stand upon an heap.

4. In the NT we have Jesus with the Samaritan woman at the well. This also takes place at SHECHEM (here called Sychar, but because of the mention of Jacob's parcel of land and well the location is made known). So we have here a more forthright picture of salvation/safety/refuge between the "shoulders" of the mounts at SHECHEM.

5. Here at SHECHEM were the bones of Joseph brought up from Egypt and buried. Most agree so were the bones of the other 11 brothers, i.e. the RESTING place of all Israel:

Ac 7:15-16 So Jacob went down into Egypt, and died, he, and our fathers, And were carried over into Sychem, and laid in the sepulcher…….

From John Calvins commentary:And the bones of Joseph, etc The time when the bones of Joseph were buried is not mentioned; but it is easy to infer that the Israelites had performed this duty after they obtained a peaceful habitation in the city of Shechem. For although he had not designated a particular place for a sepulchre, they thought it a mark of respect to deposit his bones in the field which Jacob had purchased. It may be, however, that this is expressed as a censure on the sluggishness of the people, to which it was owing, that Joseph could not be buried with Abraham, that locality being still in the power of the enemy. Stephen (#Ac 7) mentions the bones of the twelve patriarchs, and it is not impossible that the other tribes, from feelings of emulation, gathered together the ashes of their progenitors.

[Stephen]

Hi Folks!

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the rape of Dinah yet in this thread. Whenever I think of Shechem, the first thing that comes to mind is the vicious retribution taken by Simeon and Levi for the rape of their sister upon the town of Shechem. This story is one of the powerful events in the life of Israel.

To this present day, the Jews take the town of Shechem as the chief symbol for the tribe of Simeon. You can see this in depictions of the tribe of Simeon in stained-glass windows, on Israeli postage stamps, and even in the work of artist Salvador Dali in his series on the 12 tribes of Israel. They all draw upon the same source for their symbols, which is the drama recounted at Genesis 34. Simeon's symbol is a city wall, sometimes with a sword above it.

Simeon and Levi took their swords and slaughtered the entire male population of Shechem. For this, they received the ire of their father; and in the blessings given over his sons on his death-bed, Israel pronounced a scathing judgment upon both Simeon and Levi for their cruelty towards Shechem (Genesis 49:5-7).

The other important event I associate with Shechem has already been mentioned. It was the final burial place of Joseph, and - as such - adds another level of signification to Shechem, Joseph being the inheritor of the wonderful birthright promise of immense material blessing and prosperity (Genesis 49:22-26; Deuteronomy 33:13-17), which promise has been fulfilled in our times by the descendants of the sons of Joseph - Ephraim and Manasseh - known today as the brother peoples of the United Kingdom and the United States. God always keeps His promises!

Stephen

PS: Since someone mentioned the breastplate, the following feature might be worth noting. The two shoulder stones of the ephod - upon which were inscribed the names of the twelve tribes - were both shoham stones, or white agate. This was the same as the eleventh breastplate stone, which was also a shoham stone. The eleventh breastplate stone belongs to Joseph, who was the eleventh son of Israel. In the two shoulder stones we therefore see a representation of Ephraim and Manasseh, the two sons of Joseph.

[yinonyavo]

Stephen,

Lots of good points. The story of Dinah was one I wanted very much to touch upon. I find it very interesting that it is such a LONG detail account. I was hoping to at some point ask for some thoughts from you all on why this account is given such space?????

Also the verse condemning this action is one of those verses that puzzles almost all commentators. I found an interesting comment in Walter Maunder's book on this verse:

Genesis 49:5 ¶ Simeon and Levi are brethren; instruments of cruelty are in their habitations.6 O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united: for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall.

From "The Astronomy of the Bible"
by E. Walter Maunder 1908:

"In their anger they slew a man, And in their self-will they houghed an ox."
The first line appears to refer to the massacre of the
Shechemites ; the second is interpreted by the Jorusdem
Targum, "In their willfulness they sold Joseph their
brother, who is likened to an ox."

And in the blessing of Joseph it is said that his "branches (margin, daughters),
run over tho wall." Some translators have rendered this,
"The daughters walk upon the bull," "wall " and "bull "
being only distinguishable in the original by a slight
difference in the pointing. ...the device associated expressly
with Joseph is the Bull, and Jacob's blessing to his son
has been sometimes rendered-
"Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by
a well; the daughters walk upon the wall"...That is, " the Seven Sisters," the Pleiades, are on the shoulder of Taurus.

It is not the reason given for the deferring of the birthright for in I Ch we see it was the affair with his father's concubine:
1Ch 5:1 ¶ Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father’s bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright.

Also the stone thing was very interesting. .... I want to look into that......

[yinonyavo]

I didn't have my lexicon with me the other day when I was posting concerning the COM roots. The Gesenius Lexicon comment on these roots is found under the Hebrew root ayine-mem-mem (Strong's #6004).

Richard, what is the easiest way to post words in Hebrew font? I don't see one in the fonts above.

[yinonyavo]

First of many side tracks regarding SHECHEM on the subject of the FIRSTBORN:

Christ is called the FIRSTBORN of many brethren, and thus we are called the CHURCH of the FIRSTBORN.

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn....

The FIRSTBORN (also called the BIRTHRIGHT) rights include:
1. the family NAME/a DOUBLE portion of property/spirit/Prophet** (SPIRITUAL)
2. the rulership/kingship (GOVERNMENTAL)
3. the priesthood of the family (the PHYSICAL SERVICE of Religious observance)

A case can be made for the double portion being both material and spiritual based on the incident with Elisha asking for the double portion:

2Ki 2:9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.

JOHN GILL:and Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me; the two parts of the gifts of the spirit he had, that of prophecy, and that of doing miracles, as some think; or two parts out of three of what Elijah was possessed of; or rather double as much, and which he might desire, not from a spirit of vanity and ambition to be greater than his master, but from an eagerness to promote the glory of God, and the interest of religion, to reclaim the Israelites from their idolatry, and establish the true religion, which he might observe Elijah was not able to do with that measure of grace and gifts he had; or however this phrase denotes an abundance, a large portion or measure, as it everywhere does. Many, after Ben Gersom, have thought it refers to the double portion of the firstborn, and that Elisha does not mean a double portion with respect to Elijah, but with respect to the junior prophets, with whom he might be considered as a firstborn, and so desired a double or greater portion than they, and which may be most correct {m}; and when he asked this, he did not suppose it was in Elijah’s power to give him it, only that he would pray to God, at parting with him, that he would bestow it on him.


Jacob (Israel), had the right as a father, to give these rights to OTHER than the actual firstborn son if he saw fit to do so......and he did just that.

First he took his two grandsons, Ephraim and Menasseh, and adopted them as sons:

Gen 48:5 "Now then, your two sons born to you in Egypt before I came to you here will be reckoned as mine; Ephraim and Manasseh will be mine, just as Reuben and Simeon are mine.

He completely skipped over his first TWO sons, Rueben and Simeon, and gave only the priesthood to Levi for the following reasons:

1Ch 5:1 Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father’s bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel:

Gen 49:5-7 Simeon and Levi are brethren; instruments of cruelty are in their habitations. . for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall. {digged…: or, houghed oxen}....... Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce; and their wrath, for it was cruel: I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel.

He then split up the rights of the firstborn and gave the rulership to JUDAH, the preisthood to Levi, and the family name (Israel) and the double portion to Ephraim:

I Chron 5:1-2...the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright. For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph’s (Ephraim)

Ge 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

Nu 8:18 And I have taken the Levites for all the firstborn of the children of Israel.

Jer 31:9 ..for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

Notice that the NAME of Jacob(ISRAEL) and the DOUBLE PORTION goes with Ephraim, the one given the SPIRITUAL aspect of the BIRHTRIGHT:

Genesis 48:14-22 And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim’s head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh’s head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn. And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day, The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and [B] let my NAME be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth. {grow: Heb. as fishes do increase} And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father’s hand, to remove it from Ephraim’s head unto Manasseh’s head. {displeased…: was evil in his eyes} And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head. And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations. {multitude: Heb. fulness of gentiles} And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh. And Israel said unto Joseph, Behold, I die: but God shall be with you, and bring you again unto the land of your fathers. Moreover I have given to thee one portion (Shechem Achad) above thy brethren, which I took out of the hand of the Amorite with my sword and with my bow.

What is translated here as "one portion" is in the Hebrew SHECHEM ACHAD. Most commentators I have read agree that the city of Shechem is meant, but none have an opinion as to the significance of the "achad" (one or unity). This is the same word used in the sh'ma "the Lord our God is ONE", and has the idea of unity, not just oneness.

**The SPIRITUAL oversee of the BIRTHRIGHT is manifest in the fact that the tabernacle was placed in the territory of EPHRAIM (Shiloh) for the first 400 years. Also a school of the prophets was most probably in Ephraim:

2Ki 5:22 And he said, All is well. My master hath sent me, saying, Behold, even now there be come to me from mount Ephraim two young men of the sons of the prophets: give them, I pray thee, a talent of silver, and two changes of garments.

So why did God arrange to have the SPIRITUAL portion of the BIRTHRIGHT given to Ephraim when he knew the 10 Northern tribes would rebel and be scattered and mixed with the Gentiles?

An answer might be found in this verse...

Jer 31:6 For there shall be a day, that the watchmen upon the mount Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the LORD our God.

JOHN CALVIN: The Prophet here amplifies the kindness of God, because he would not only restore the tribe of Judah, but also the ten tribes, who had previously been led into exile. He then promises here a full and complete restoration of the Church. The Prophets do not always speak in the same manner of the liberation of the people; sometimes they confine what they say to the tribe of Judah, as though the rest were in a hopeless state, but often they extend their prophecies to the whole body of the people. So in this place Jeremiah includes, together with the tribe of Judah, the ten tribes, and the half tribe of Benjamin, for some of the tribe of Benjamin had remained and had never revolted from the family of David. But they usually call the kingdom of Israel the ten tribes, and denote the kingdom of Judah by the name of that one tribe: thus the tribe of Benjamin, divided into two parts, is not mentioned.
The meaning, then, of the Prophet is, that when God redeemed his people, not only Judah would return, but also the Israelites, of whom there was hardly a hope, because they had been in exile for a long time; and as they had rejected the pure and legitimate worship of God, they might have been thought to have been excluded from the Church, for by their own perfidy they had shut out themselves, so that they were unworthy of so honorable a distinction. So the Prophet here declares that God’s favor would surpass the wickedness and perverseness of the people of Israel.
Hence he says that the day would come in which watch-men would cry on the mountain of Ephraim, etc. By Ephraim, as it is well known, are often to be understood the ten tribes, and that on account of Jeroboam, who first reigned over them. But we ought ever to remember, that under one tribe, in this case, are included all the ten tribes. When, therefore, the Prophet speaks of watchmen on Mount Ephraim, he means all the watchmen, placed on their watchtowers, through the whole kingdom of Israel....

The role of prophet includes miracles, foretelling the future, and proclaiming judgment, but most of all the duty of the prophet is to proclaim God's word. Maybe God's plan to eventually bring the Gospel to the world via the Gentiles (wherein Ephraim/10 tribes had been scattered and mixed), he sent out there into the world with them the SPIRITUAL/PROPHETIC portion of the birthright (SHECHEM ACHAD) so that in a very "legal" way they were equipped to be the guardians and prophets of the good news.??????????

Another thought has occured to me reguarding why God split up the birthright into the three parts (prophet, priest, king) as he did. Christ was legal heir to the thrown being of the tribe of Judah and the correct lineage of David. Hebrews chapter 7 goes to great length to explain the legal means by which God makes Christ the high priest, for he was not a Levite. In the case of Prophets, they did not have to be of any certain tribe. I'm not at all sure about how exactly you might describe the association with Ephraim other than that the school for prophets may have located there, and the tabernacle was located within that tribe initially. There were also marriage restrictions on the levites and of course the "genealogy" (I Chron 5:1-2) of kings (and messiah) was to be reckoned by the tribe of Judah, so keeping that genealogy pure was essential. The line of prophets had no such restrictions. They were called by God from any tribe, any line of work, etc. Yet somehow there is an association with Ephraim and the double portion/& name Israel. So when Ephraim mixed with the Gentiles this did not necessarily revoke the prophetic association with the birthright. ??????

I also find it an interesting pattern in scripture that when a particular group of people is banned or cursed, their being brought back in is always (as far as I can find) through a woman:

Canaanites-Tamar, Rahab, Bathsheba?
Moabites-Ruth

The Hebrew tradition also says Noah's wife was from the line of Cain.

The church is considered feminine in scripture and would it not follow the same pattern that Ephraim(10 tribes) being already mixed with the Gentile church, came back to God through their marriage to Christ and with it bring the whole of the birthright together again in Christ??????????????????......SHECHEM ACHAD.....ONENESS, ONE CONSENT, ONE ACCORD, the wall of partition broken down, etc.?????????????????????

Lots of thoughts here....none of it clear or orgainized in my mind, but God says the dividing of the Kingdom was of him, so it must play a part.......

2Ch 11:4 Thus saith the LORD, Ye shall not go up, nor fight against your brethren: return every man to his house: for this thing is done of me. And they obeyed the words of the LORD, and returned from going against Jeroboam.

[Rose]

Hi Yinon Yavo, :yo:
This looks like a very interesting topic :rolleyes:
I’ve never thought about Gen 48:22 before, so I thought first I would look at it from what the plain text says.

I think the reason why Shechem was named such, (besides it location between the two mountains) is because there God first give to Abraham the promise 'to your descendants I will give this land' Gen 12:7.In other words God gave Abraham, in Shechem a portion above anyone else. That portion entailed 'a burden to be carried', so I think the city was named because of what would happen there. Also it is important to note that Gen 12:6 is the first time Shechem is mentioned in the Bible.

So Abraham is given the first divine promise, Gen 12:7 'To your descendants I will give this land' and Gen 17:4 'As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations.' which is a burden to be carried above anyone else….at a place called Shechem,(meaning portion, or shoulder).

When I now read Gen 48:22, I interpret it as; Israel (Jacob, from which the tribes of the Jews came) saying to Joseph (who saved his people from famine by leading them into a gentile nation) that he is giving him an extra portion, which was taken from the hand of the Amorites, a gentile nation.

So why the Amorites?
In Gen 15:16 is a very interesting verse concerning the 'iniquity' of the Amorites. It says 'But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.'.

What I’m gathering from the context of Gen 15 is that God is showing Abram in a vision that he will have a child and that his descendants will go into captivity 400 years in a strange land (and of course Joseph is the reason the Israelites were in Egypt) and come out with great possessions, and then it goes on to say that it will be four generations before they would return because of the iniquity of the Amorites was not yet complete.

So could the extra portion that Joseph is receiving, taken from the hand of the Amorites be a continued representation of the extra portion 'shechem' that Abraham received at Shechem, being the 'burden he would carry' because he was to be the 'father of many gentile nations', and that portion is being passed down to Joseph. It also seems that maybe because Joseph was the son of Rebecca, Jacobs wife of choice and most beloved, that Jacob favored him as he did his brother Benjamin.

I don’t have all the pieces in place yet, :confused2: but I thought I would go ahead and put this part out. Hope it makes some sense. :)

Rose

[Stephen]

Hi Rose!

Just going to be nit-picky, so please don't overpersonalise. You write "Jacob, from which the tribes of the Jews came". This is a fundamental error, and one in which I have been spending some time in clearing up. There is no such thing as "tribes of the Jews". The Jews are only one tribe, Judah, along with an admixture of Benjamin and a very small portion of Levi. Jacob was the father of 12 sons, who later became 12 tribes. They were not all tribes of Jews. This fundamental error in thinking is what clouds most Christian's understanding of the OT.

The tribes of Israel that are not and were never Jews are Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, and part of Benjamin. The Jews are less than 10 per cent of all Israel!

Sorry for being nit-picky, but without a clear understanding of what the term Jews means in a biblical context, there is little hope of correctly understanding the OT.

Your brother in the Lord,
Stephen

[yinonyavo]

Rose, thanks for all your thoughts. That is what I was hoping....that everyone would throw ideas and verses into the pot and we could all meditate upon bringing all to more clarity.....

I've been looking at and thinking about the breastplate angle all weekend. I looked at Vernon's study on the breastplate again.

Richard, what is your opinion on John Tng's page on this? http://www.fivedoves.com/tng/gospelinstone.htm

I did try to find more on the order of the names, and the sources I looked at conclude that it is inconclusive. I am just looking at the "Shechem" positioning and trying to consider that aspect for now.

Think I'll list a quick SUMMARY here of what all have devised so far:

SHECHEM was a place of:

1. Covenant (Abraham, renewed with Joshua)
2. Refuge/blood covering (refuge city, covering, concealed)
3. Resting place (Burial of Joseph and others?)
4. Gospel/water of life (Jacob's well, woman at the well)
5. Carrier of burdens/sins (Dinah's rape, Joseph's being sold into slavery, the dividing of the Kingdom)
6. Inheritence (the children of Israel went out from Shechem to their inheritence)
7. Worship (Abraham, Jacob both built altars of worship here)

Historical Biblical events at Shechem:

*Shechem (between Sychar and Jacob’s well) was a place of altars and "historical markers". . .
*At Shechem, Abram "built an altar to the Lord who had appeared to him . . . and had given that land to his descendants" (Gen 12:6-7). This was the first recorded place where Abram stopped when he and Sarah and Lot and their entourage entered the land. On this occasion, God confirmed to Abram the promise He had first made to him in Ur of the Chaldees, that He would give him this land. It is possible that Abram climbed nearby Mount Ebal to view his inheritance, much of which could be seen from that peak.
*At Shechem, Jacob built an altar and called it "El-Elohe-Israel" when he returned from Padan-Aram with his eleven sons whose descendants would possess that land (Gen 33:19-20). Jacob and his family had traveled down the Jabbok Valley to the Jordan, camped at Succoth and then ascended through the Wadi Fari’a and the Wadi Beidan to Shechem (Gen 33:17-20). It is likely that, in doing this, he had retraced the route he had taken alone to Padan-Aram, twenty years before. While camped at Shechem, his family was involved in many contacts with the local people. Shechem, the son of the ruler, Hamor, raped Jacob’s daughter Dinah. Her brothers, Levi and Simeon, avenged this crime by killing all the males of the city, including Shechem and his father. During this period, Jacob dug a well, augmenting the local water resource to supply the large herds of livestock he had brought back from Padan-Aram. This well was widely known in that region two thousand years later (John 4:12). Jacob also purchased land for his favorite son, Joseph, who at that time was the only son of his favorite wife Rachel (Gen 3:19; 48:21,22; Josh 24:32).
*Several years later, when Joseph was seventeen years old, Jacob sent him from Hebron to Shechem to "see about the welfare of your brothers" (Gen 37:12-14). When he arrived at Shechem, he found that his brothers had moved on twenty miles farther to the Plain of Dothan where there was very good pasturage (Gen 37:15-17). This sequence of events is important for two reasons. It confirms the affinity Jacob’s family had with the Shechem area, the first place they had settled when they came to the land for the first time (Cf. Abraham). It also records the sovereign supervision of God over the process by which He would bring Joseph to Egypt. It was there that He would multiply Jacob’s descendants in fulfilment of His covenant with Abraham, preparing them to become the nation that would later possess the land.
*At nearby Mount Ebal, Joshua built an altar of uncut stones. He also wrote a copy of the law on a pillar of stones. From Mount Ebal, half of the tribes shouted the penalties if they disobeyed the law and from Mount Gerizim, the other half shouted the blessings if they obeyed (Josh 8:30-35).
*At Shechem, Joshua set up a large stone to remind Israel of their commitment to worship God alone. "Behold, this stone shall be for a witness against us, for it has heard all the words of the Lord which He spoke to us; thus it shall be for a witness against you, lest you deny your God" (Josh 24:1, 25-27).

Shechem was a place of witness. It was a place of "stones and bones," memorializing twenty centuries of God’s faithfulness. Joseph’s last memories of the land were of Shechem and Dothan. Throughout his years far from his homeland, Joseph believed that God would fulfil His promise to give the land to his people. He expressed this confidence in his last words, ". . . you shall carry my bones up from here" (Gen 50:25). When Moses led the descendants of Jacob out of Egypt, he was careful to bring with him Joseph’s bones (Exod 13:19). Forty years later, when Joshua led the tribe of Manasseh to Shechem, they brought with them the bones of Joseph, the father of their tribe (Josh 24:32).

Shechem was a place of spiritual warfare.*Here the kingdom was divided. Jeroboam called out "To your tents, O Israel" and separated the northern tribes from Judah (1 Kgs 12:1,16). To prevent his people from going up to Jerusalem to worship, Jeroboam set up a golden bull image at Bethel, near Shechem where their ancestors had made a covenant to worship God alone (1 Kgs 12:25-33).
*Here Samaritans lived. When the Assyrians deported most of the citizens of the Northern Kingdom in the seventh century B.C., they repopulated the Northern Kingdom with people who did not know the God of Abraham (2 Kgs 17:24-41). Over the years, this mixed people developed a Pentateuch-based religion, with worship centered at Mount Gerizim (John 4:20).
*The existence of Samaritans and their presence in the midst of the land near Shechem, the place where God had confirmed His promise of the land to Abraham when he first entered it, constituted a constant reminder of Israel’s apostasy and its resulting exile from the land.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Rose, thanks for all your thoughts. That is what I was hoping....that everyone would throw ideas and verses into the pot and we could all meditate upon bringing all to more clarity.....

I've been looking at and thinking about the breastplate angle all weekend. I looked at Vernon's study on the breastplate again.

Richard, what is your opinion on John Tng's page on this? http://www.fivedoves.com/tng/gospelinstone.htm

I did try to find more on the order of the names, and the sources I looked at conclude that it is inconclusive. I am just looking at the "Shechem" positioning and trying to consider that aspect for now.



Hi Yinonyavo!

I think that article is definitely worthy of study. The appearance of numbers relating to the names Jesus, Christ, and the title Alpha Omega seems striking. But as you note, the many variations in the order (and number) of the names makes the results less than conclusive.

I really do hope to get in on this conversation soon. I'm just about done with the my update to the Gematria database which will enable a search by number for every occurrence of every word that sums to a specific number.

Talk more soon!

Richard

[yinonyavo]

SOME QUESTIONS?????

1. Is there a distinction between the symbolism of Shechem and the mounts on each side? (which would include the symbolic difference between the names of the tribes on the shoulder stones and the breastplate, the heaps of water and the dry land, etc.)
...or even between the two mounts ...#De 11:30 Ge 12:6 as the plains of Moreh here denote Shechem, so there: Benjamin of Tudela says {x} there is a valley between them, in which lies Shechem; and in his time there were on Mount Gerizim fountains and orchards, but Mount Ebal was dry like stones and rocks.

2. Is there a prophetic significance to the person of Dinah, the only female offspring of Jacob? If so, what symbolism would the rape at Shechem be, and how would that fit into the overall type of Dinah?

3. All three tragic events that happened at or near Shechem effected Joseph or his descendants. 1. Joseph sold by his brothers near Shechem endearing him even more to his father Jacob 2. Dinah's rape caused Jacob to look unfavorably upon the eldest sons, possibly playing a part in his decision to bypass them for the birthright which was later given to the sons of Joseph 3. The division of the kingdom which divided the sons of Joseph and the other 8 tribes from Judah. You might say the three events together resulted in the divided kingdom. Is this significant to the overall symbolic meaning of Shechem?

4. Could any case be made for Shechem being the scene of the Valley of dry bones of Ez 37? Especially if traditions are correct that all 12 patriarchs of the tribes were buried there.......??

[yinonyavo]

Richard, the reason I ask about John's study is that it seems to fit in with one of the major themes of Shechem....the place of the division of Ephraim and Judah. The other "Shechem Achad" verse deals with the repairing of that breach.
Zep 3: 9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent (with one shoulder).10 From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.

If the breastplate paints the same symbolic picture as Shechem (the covering between the heaps and the repairer of the breach) then this all fits very well.

Can't wait for your gematria data base.!!!++!!!:>)

[yinonyavo]

CHRONOLOGICAL TIME LINE OF SHECHEM:

2023-1737 BCE
Abraham reaches Elon Moreh-Shechem and receives the promise, 'To your descendants will I give this land.'
2196-1564 BCE
Jacob returns from Lavan's house and buys the parcel of land in Shechem. Later that year Dinah is raped by Shechem and Shimon and Levy conquer the city.

2212-1548 BCE
Outside Shechem Joseph is sold into slavery by his brothers.

2488- 1272 BCE
The Children of Israel enter the Land of Israel. They perform the ceremony of the Blessings and Curses, bury Yosef's remains, and build the altar on Mt. Eval.

2523-1237 BCE
Joshuah gathers the nation in Shechem to make a covenent to follow Gd's commandments even after he is gone.

2723-1037 BCE
Being chased by his brother Avimelech, Yotam recites his Parable of the Trees from Mt. Grizzim.

2964-796 BCE
Rehavam is crowned king in Shechem completing the split between the Northern and Southern Kingdoms.

3202-558 BCE
Sancherib exiles the Ten Tribes and brings tribes from Kutah (Samarians of today), Ava, Hamat, and Sepharvaim to Shechem.

3338-422 BCE
The First Temple is destroyed.

3408-352 BCE
The Second Temple is built.

3828-68 CE
The Second Temple is destroyed.

3830-70 CE
In order to try to hide the Jewish importance of Shechem the Romans rename the city Neapolis, the New City. Years afterwards the Arabs call the city 'Nablus.'

5030-1270 CE
Desciples of the Ramban pray at the site of Joseph's Tomb.

5599-1839 CE
Sir Moses Montifiore and wife visit Joseph's Tomb.

5627-1867
Mark Twain visits Shechem and writes about it in the diary he published later.

5677-1917 CE
The Balfour Declaration declares the right of the Jewish People to Eretz Yisroel.

5682-1922 CE
The League of Nations decides to establish the Jewish Homeland.

5686-1926 CE
The last Jewish families are chased out of Shechem by Arab pogroms.

5687-1927 CE
A massive earthquake destroys most of Shechem, included the Jewish Quarter.

5694-1934 CE
Archeologist John Write finds the gates to the old city 50 yards from Joseph's Tomb.

5698-1938 CE
The British Partition Plan cuts away Samaria from the new plans for a Jewish Homeland.

5708-1948 CE
The State of Israel is established with cease-fire lines leaving out Judeah and Samaria.

5727-1967 CE
The conquest of Shechem is one of the miracles of the Six-Day War.

5736-1976 CE
Elon Moreh is established near the Army camp at Kadum, 6 km west of Shechem.

Tu Be'Shvat 5740-1980 CE
The new Elon Moreh is established on Mt. Kabir northeast of Shechem.

5741-1981 CE
Archeologist Adam Zartal discovers Joshuah's Altar on Mt. Ebal

5742-1982 CE
The 'Od Yosef Chai' Yeshivah is founded next to Joseph's Tomb.

5744-1984 CE
Har Beracha, Yitzhar, and Itamar are established around the city of Shechem.

Kislev, 5756-1996 CE
Shechem is given over to the PLO, leaving Joseph's Tomb and the 'Od Yosef Chai' Yeshivah in Israeli hands.

Shabbat Shuvah, 5760-2000 CE
The Army abandons Joseph's Tomb. The building is burned.

Motzei Shabbat Shuvah, 5763-2003 CE
The first group of Jews is allowed to visit the site.

[yinonyavo]

Shechem is also called in scripture Elon Moreh, the plain of Moreh (which means teacher). Here is a picture of Shechem and mount Ebal & Gerizim (click on image to inlarge):

5

[Stephen]

Hello All!

Yinonyavo, you ask about there being any significance to John Tng's article regarding the breastplate. The short answer is no, there is no significance to his article. This is because he has the wrong 12 names on the breastplate!

I did a series on the breastplate, some of which Vernon published at his website. Unfortunately, I cannot direct you to these pages at present as Vernon is overhauling his website, and the pages will not become available again until Vernon has finished updating them for placement at his new website. The reason he is doing this is so that his work will survive him, as Vernon is well-advanced in years now ... although you'd never believe it when you read his works, which remain concise and convey a clarity of expression.

In an appendix to the first page we did together - the work goes under the title Double Indemnity - I set forth a number of reasons from Scripture why the names of Ephraim and Manasseh could never have been engraved on any of the breastplate jewels. I will not go into these reasons right now, as I don't have enough free time to do so. Also, it will become apparent as other threads develop - particularly the one relating to the Revelation, which began yesterday - that the names of Levi and Joseph were undoubtedly amongst the breastplate stones. Joseph's stone, as I mentioned earlier, is the Hebrew shoham, which is the very same stone used for the shoulder stones of the ephod, upon which the names of the 12 tribes were engraved. These three shoham stones represent Joseph - in the breastplate, and upon which the name of Joseph was engraved - as well as Ephraim and Manasseh - the two shoulder stones, although the names of the two sons of Joseph were not engraved upon either of these two shoham stones on the shoulders of the ephod.

John Tng's article is a reworking of an original piece of research by Ian Mallett. The 4 x 3 breastplate matrix produces intriguing numerical results when overlaid with the 12 tribes as they are numbered in the wilderness, according to their birth order. However, these results can be duplicated and, indeed, surpassed, by using the names of the 12 sons of Jacob / Israel, who are the original 12 tribes. The only condition is that the birth order is now matriarchal. You will have to wait until Vernon has completed his task of moving the articles to his new website before you see what I mean. However, if you need specific answers regarding breastplate queries, please ask, as I probably have an answer.

Stephen

[yinonyavo]

Thanks Stephen, looking forward to Vernon's article.

[Stephen]

Hello Yinonyavo!

It occurred to me that you might be waiting a long time before Vernon finishes transferring all his old material to his new website. The current pace of events isn't encouraging in relation to the Double Indemnity series being transferred any time soon. What I'll try and make time for over the next week or two is the placing of certain details in regard to the Double Indemnity series at the forum for discussing Vernon's work.

I have had a brief reread over some of the posts in this Shechem thread. I've noticed that there seems to be a real emphasis on the tribe of Joseph. This is probably very important. In fact, I've gained a lot in rereading through some of the posts in this thread. I had never realised how fascinating this topic, and, indeed, the very word 'shechem', is.

Something I gained much from was the use of the word 'shechem' at both Isaiah 9:6 and Isaiah 22:22. I think it's pretty plain to see that they're both prophecies concerning our Lord Jesus Christ. What is slightly less evident is that both verses refer to government: I regard the key of David as referring specifically to government. Hence, I believe the use of this very symbol by our Lord at Revelation 3:7 is in specific reference to government. To be precise, I am convinced beyond reasonable doubt that the Lord is prophesying specifically about America when he addresses the church at Philadelphia. In what is perhaps the most precise prophecy in the Bible, our Lord even names the original capital city of America, Philadelphia, where the Declaration of Independence was drafted in 1776. I'm sure you are familiar with this foundational document of America. Perhaps you might like to consider the final sentence of the Declaration, and compare its content with the meaning of the very word Philadelphia, which means 'brotherly love'.

"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor".

Over at another thread that I won't have time to reactivate for a while, I state my belief that America is part of ancient Israel, with the tribe of Manasseh in the ascendancy. Of this I am in no doubt. Funny how the very word 'shechem' should be part of the relevant symbol of governance, the key of David; and that it should relate to American Independence through the prophecy concerning the church at Philadelphia. Manasseh was the progenitor of a descendant named Shechem, inherited land in the region of Shechem, had descendants ruling in Shechem, and is part of Joseph, whose blessings at Genesis 49:22-26, Deuteronomy 33:13-17 and Genesis 48:5-22 have been fulfilled in the brother peoples of the United Kingdom and the United States.

Stephen

[White]

Good Morning Stephen,

Very interesting post - All these verses the LORD spoke to me about -
I have seen similar connectons about America as well (I got married to my first American husband on 7/4/1975 and came to the USA on 7/22/1976 - the bi-cenntenial) and opened my bible with a question on 7/22/1996 : "Lord, I know, somewhere in here is the key. So where does it say WHITE AS SNOW?" That night the LORD showed me: PSALM 51:7 - "Wash me and I'll be whiter than snow"

Needless to say that I started to walk with the WORD from that very moment on. I started to concentrate in "22"s and came across Isaiah 22:22 - Then I met a Catholic Priest from an Christian African Country who mentioned that his nation is Christian because of "the 22 martyrs" - I gave him a study on 2:2, 22:2, 22:22 verses in the Bible, on his last day. Then it just happened that the priest stood next to my car as I was leaving my Church. So I asked him whether he received my "22" study and the $22.--" donation (to make a point! He said "yes" - so I said : "You should read ISAIAH 22:22" - He promised he would ponder that verse. Then I left and went to gas up my car. The automatic pump stopped at $22.22!" the exact numbers I told the Catholic Priest to study!

That is the way the LORD walks with me to confirm my steps - not quite orthodox but always in tune with the Holy Spirit. Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and the door (to Heaven) shall be opened...
House of Joseph = Ephraim - the largest Tribe, always mentioned in the Friday night prayers at the Synagigue ..."and may we be like Manessah and Ephraim..." I'll find the entire text if you are interested.
Shalom to all
White

[yinonyavo]

Stephen, yes I agree it has much to do with Joseph. As Shechem Achad IS the double portion, the portion of the FIRSTBORN, and given to Ephraim. I think it also seems to be much related to the re-uniting of Ephraim and Judah, the two sticks. It was the place of their division. Thats why I asked the question about the valley of dry bones.

[Stephen]

Hi there, White!

That's a pretty powerful thing to ask: "May we be like Manasseh and Ephraim". I'm sure they don't truly understand the depth of that request! What they're actually saying is, "May we be blessed like America and the British Commonwealth".

Harking back to the church at Philadelphia - Revelation 3:7-10 - the Lord prophesied that the (unbelieving) Jews would find refuge in America, at verse 9. Think about that verse for a moment. When you've given that thought sufficient consideration, go back and look again at those words you quoted from the synagogue service: "May we be like Manasseh and Ephraim".

"Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee". (Revelation 3:9)

Here's a link that ought to give you food for thought:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/loc/czars1.html

Note the quote from Psalm 118, the quintessential American psalm, which the Lord himself quotes at Matthew 21:42, again - as I believe - in reference to America receiving the kingdom that the Jews once held. Truly fascinating stuff!

Uf widerhoere!

Stephen

[yinonyavo]

Here's another question important to this study. Is the "ONENESS" prophesied of the two sticks the same as the "ONENESS" that the Holy Spirit wrought at Pentecost between the Jews and the Gentiles? i.e., is Ephraim (10 tribes)symbolic or literally the Gentiles?

Consider the following verses:

Joh 7:35 Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?

διασπορά Transliteration diaspora - Thayer's Lexicon states this is used only of Israelites or Christian Israelites who are scattered. Note they are called GENTILES by the disciples in this verse. Actually the Greek word here is Helen, meaning the Greeks, which the Jews equated with Gentiles.

JOHN CALVIN on this verse:
Will he go to the dispersion of the Greeks? It is well known that the Jews gave the name of Greeks to all nations beyond the sea; but they do not mean that Christ will go to the uncircumcised nations, but to the Jews, who were dispersed through the various countries of the world. For the word dispersion would not apply to those who are natives of the place, and who inhabit their native soil, but applies well to the Jews, who were fugitives and exiles. Thus Peter inscribes his First Epistle parepidhmoiv diasporav to the strangers of the dispersion, that is, to the strangers who are scattered {1} through Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, (#1Pe 1:1); and James salutes the twelve tribes en th diaspora, in the dispersion, that is, scattered abroad, (#Jas 1:1). The meaning of the words therefore is, "Will he cross the sea, to go to Jews who dwell in a world unknown to us?"

CLARK's COMMENTARY: Verse 35. The dispersed among the Gentiles Or Greeks. By the dispersed, are meant here the Jews who were scattered through various parts of that empire which Alexander the Great had founded, in Greece, Syria, Egypt, and Asia Minor, where the Greek language was used, and where the Jewish Scriptures in the Greek version of the Septuagint were read. Others suppose that the Gentiles themselves are meant—others, that the ten tribes which had been long lost are here intended.

GENEVA COMMENTARY: Literally, "to the dispersion of the Gentiles" or "Greeks", and under the name of the Greeks he refers to the Jews who were dispersed among the Gentiles.

Both Peter and James call the scattered tribes by the same term "diaspora":

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus <2424> Christ , to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad <1290>, greeting.
1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,to the strangers <3927> scattered <1290> throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia....

[yinonyavo]

Ro 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

ADAM CLARKS COMMENTARY:Until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And this blindness will continue till the Church of the Gentiles be fully completed—till the Gospel be preached through all the nations of the earth, and multitudes of heathens every where embrace the faith. The words πληρωμα τωv εθνοv may be borrowed from the Hebrew:melo haggoyim, a multitude of nations, which the Septuagint translate by πληρωμα εθνοv from the verse:
Ge 48:17-19And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father’s hand, to remove it from Ephraim’s head unto Manasseh’s head.18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

So is the "fullness of the Gentiles" really also/and/or speaking of the 10 tribes who have been mixed with the Gentile nations??

Ho 7:8 Ephraim, he hath mixed himself among the people; Ephraim is a cake not turned.

Ho 2:23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.

Zech 10:7-9 And they of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yea, their children shall see it, and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the LORD. I will hiss for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased. And I will sow them among the people: and they shall remember me in far countries; and they shall live with their children, and turn again.

GENEVA BIBLE FOOTNOTES:10:9 And I will {k} sow them among the people: and they shall remember me in far countries; and they shall live with their children, and {l} turn again.
(k) Though they will yet be scattered and seem to be lost, yet it will be profitable to them: for there they will come to the knowledge of my name, which was accomplished under the Gospel, among whom it was first preached.
(l) Not that they would return into their country, but be gathered and joined in one faith by the doctrine of the Gospel.

Mic 5:7 And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.

JOHN CALVIN:It was an instance of the wonderful grace of God, that he so ordered his dreadful judgment as to make the dispersion, as it has been said, a sowing of the people; for it hence happened, that the knowledge of celestial truth shone everywhere; and at length when the gospel was proclaimed, a freer access was had to the Gentiles, because Jews were dispersed through all lands. The first receptacles (Hospitia) of the gospel were the synagogues. We see that the apostles everywhere went first to the Jews, and when a few were converted, the door was now opened that more might come, and Gentiles were also added to the Jews. Thus the punishment of exile, which had been inflicted on them, was the means of opening the door for the gospel; and God thus scattered his seed here and there, that it might in due time produce fruit beyond the expectation of all; and this consideration availed not a little to moderate the impatient desires of the people;

Calvin here treats the diaspora of Israelites as if they could be identified, but the scriptures and Jews of the times considered them physically mixed in the nations that only God knew their whereabouts:

Am 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

Jer 16:14 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
15 But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.
16 Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.17 For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes.
18 And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have filled mine inheritance with the carcases of their detestable and abominable things.
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
20 Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they are no gods?
21 Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is The LORD.

[yinonyavo]

http://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/jsceptre/jsbp1c10.html


The Jews were taken into Babylon and returned from thence; but the house of Israel, as herein stated, was scattered throughout all countries. But for the vindication of his holy name, he declared that he should yet be sanctified in the eyes of all nations, by saving Israel and bringing them back to their own land. When this takes place, Israel shall come out from all countries.

In two of these quotations they are called, "The dispersed." This will enable us to understand Zeph. 3:10 --

"From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia, my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.'

Since we understand that "the dispersed" are the ten tribes, which composed the Birthright kingdom, we comprehend the grave import of the question asked by the chief man of Judah in the following:

"When the Pharisees heard that the people murmured such things concerning him; and the Pharisees and the chief priests sent officers to take him. Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me. Ye shall seek me and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come. Then said the Jews among themselves, ‘Whither will he go that we cannot find him? "Will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles?’ " (John 7:32-35).

This very question reveals the fact that the Jews knew that the ten tribes were dispersed among the nations, and that they did not know where they were; hence, that they could not go to them. They also comprehended the fact that, if this man called Christ should prove to be the long-expected Messiah, he did know where the lost people were, and could go to them. It is also an admission, from the chief men of Judah, that a portion of the race were lost.
Isaac Leeser, an eminent Jewish scholar, who translated the Hebrew Scriptures for the English speaking Jews, says in his great work, "The Jewish Religion," Vol. I, page 256:

"Let us observe that by this return of the captives (from Babylon) the Israelitish nation was not restored; since the ten tribes, who had formerly composed the kingdom of Israel, were yet left in banishment; and to this day the researches of travelers and wise men have not been able to trace their fate."

Micah, also, falls into exact line with the rest of the prophets, for through him the Lord declares:

"I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold, they shall make great noise by reason of the multitude of men. The breaker is come up before them: they have broken up, and passed through the gate, and are gone out by it; and their king shall pass before them, and the Lord on the head of them," (Micah 2:12, 13).

The reason the Lord says that he will assemble and put them together is, that, prior to the time when Shalmaneser took the main body of the kingdom of Israel into Assyria, it seems that a former king (Tiglath-Pileser) had taken the Reubenites, the Gadites, a portion of Naphtali, and one of the half tribes of Manasseh, "And brought them unto Halah, and Habor and Hara, and to the river Gozan." (see 2Kings 17:6, 18:11; 1Ch. 5:26). Later, the rest of the ten tribes were brought to this same region.

As we have already noted, the last that Josephus knew concerning the ten tribes, is that they were beyond the river Euphrates. This river rises at the foot of Mount Ararat, up in the Caucasian Pass, between the Black and Caspian seas. Israel, making a great noise because of the multitude, went out through this pass, or gate, or entrance.

[Stephen]

Hi All!

Yinonyavo, you are very perceptive in regard to the ten tribes being the dispersed. There are many other Jewish sources of the highest order that could be quoted in relation to the ten tribes, and the many verses in Scripture that are dedicated specifically to them. I like where are you going with this thread. You are engaging with concepts of the birthright, and with real people. I say that latter by way of contrast with the great majority of Bible students, who obliterate any real tribe of Ephraim by subsuming them into some nebulous concept of type / antitype, in order to buttress some erroneous belief that the church is now Israel. In doing so, they bring great problems to their own table, for the onus is then on them to justify every single prophecy ever spoken over the ten tribes, and show how it is fulfilled in the church. I defy anyone to try and prove that this is the case. The only strategy that might work is to extend the definition of what the word 'church' means, as you appear to be doing in your latest posts.

Stephen

[White]

Hi Stephen,
An schoene Abig!

Yes, definately interesting stuff ! As you know from some of my other posts, the LORD started to deal with me with the "SABBATH" - keep the SABBATH HOLY! and through that one verse, He plunged me head long into Judaism - or actually more acurately on my way to Judaism through the Hebrew Christian or Messianic Congregations - In August 1997 the LORD gave me a poem : OUT OF EGYPT ON DRY GROUND WALKED GOD'S PEOPLE - The Exodus Story in Poetry ! quite revealing. Then also, my Dad's family crest has a filled in 6 pointed Star of David in it - small signs and wonders to reveal our background - and Zurich - where I'm born - has the same colors as Israel - WHITE and BLUE - When the Jews were kicked out of Rome in 45 AD, they ended up in the Swiss Alps over 1200 years before the creation of a country called "Switzerland / 8/1/1291") in the mountains where even to this day the people speak ROMANSH - direct descendant language from the ROMANS... Switzerland has decidedly JEWISH ROOTS.


This passage below is from your thread - most interesting - even more so as I have actually been invited by the Catholic School at Our Lady of the Lake Catholic Church to present the PASSOVER SEDER to explain the roots of the HOLY EUCHARIST to the Students. I was more than happy to comply and have presented the PASSOVER SEDER to the 6th Graders 5 times over the last 6 years ! always concluding with "NEXT YEAR IN YERUSHALYIM / JERUSALEM" I even had them repeat the "SHEMA" in HEBREW : "SHEMA ISRAEL ADONAI ELOHAINU ADONAI ECHAD!" - "HEAR O ISRAEL, THE LORD OUR GOD, THE LORD IS ONE!" Eventually I'll post some of the pictures of the Seder Meal, and the Feast of Tabernacles - SUKKOT (my 10th this year 1998 - 2007) - on my website www.watchandpray.com.

Text from www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...oc/czars1.html
Passover was celebrated in tears that year. In the story of the Exodus we would have read a chapter of current history, only for us there was no deliverer and no promised land. But what said some of us at the end of the long service? Not "May we be next year in Jerusalem," but, "Next year — in America!" So there was our promised land, and many faces turned toward the West. And if the waters of the Atlantic did not part for them, the wanderers rode its bitter flood by a miracle as great as any the rod of Moses ever wrought.

In 2000 I visited Temple Israel Synagogue where I met Cardinal William Keeler (the 2nd highest from the Vatican) from Baltimore who was presenting a talk on "Jewish-Catholic Relations" - I was sitting next to "MRS MOSES" - Really, it's not a joke but GOD has a sense of humour... I went up to Cardinal Keeler who was very diplomatic about the "two ways to Heaven - the Jewish way and the Catholic/Christian way" and I said to the Most Reverend Cardinal : "The LORD did not send me to a Reform/Conservative Synagogue, HE sent me to an ORTHODOX SYNAGOGUE - to witness to Rabbi Goldberger - and you are absolutely right, Cardinal Keeler, AJEW NEVER HAS TO CONVERT ... (long pause).... BUT HE HAS TO ACCEPT Y'SHUA HA-MASHIACH AS MESSIAH" "Would you like me to give you my writings now or shall I send them to you?" Cardinal Keeler gave me his card and asked me to mail "my writings" to him, which I did - He acknoledged receipt and closed the letter with "THANK YOU FOR CARRYING THE CROSS OF CHRIST!" He is a very kind hearted Cardinal.

Stephen, I agree with you that we - the Church - Catholics and Christians - ARE the 10 LOST TRIBES - without a doubt - it's not spiritual Israel but PHYSICAL ISRAEL that counts - and the LORD will give all who have JEWISH blood in their veins dreams and visions about HIS PLAN for all of mankind. When the CHURCH understands its true roots, Ezekiel 37:15-28 and Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Isaiah 49:22 among many others - the TWO STICKS WILL BE UNITED and stand firm - the first time the LORD sent me to Kenesseth Israel Synagogue on 12/26/1998 for a SHABBAT SERVICE - the reading was EZEKIEL 37:15-28 !!! A house divided cannot stand but a HOUSE UNITED - the 12 TRIBES (or representatives of the tribes) united, will become a blessing to all. (Isaiah 2:2-5) Shalom to Jerusalem and the HOLY LAND, America and all the world, with Y'SHUA HA-MASHIACH in the HEART OF ALL PEOPLE!
Schoene Abig, gell!
White

PS: I just came across a book called PROPHECY CODE with a 9 branch Menorah with CHRIST in the Center, connecting the 587BC + 2520 Lunar years = 1897 (the first Zionist Congress on 8/29/1897 in Basel Switzerland), the year 536BC + 2520 Lunar years = 1948 (Birth of Israel), the year 517 BC + 2520 Lunar years = 1967 - fall of WALL into Jewish Hands on 6/7/67 at 10:20 (prophetic numbers in itself) - Prophecy Code - A fresh look into Man's future by Jeffrey A. Manly - Have you heard of this book?

PSPS: Always in tune with the HOLY SPIRIT : My reading this morning at OLL - EXODUS 3:1-16..
MOSES ! MOSES ! "Here I am..." "Take off your sandals.. you are standing on HOLY GROUND... say to the Children of Israel "I AM" sent you - The God of Father Abrahan, the God of Father Isaac, and the God of Father Jacob sent you...
to lead them out of Egypt..." - just like my poem : OUT OF EGYPT ON DRY GROUND WALKED GOD'S PEOPLE"... we are reading the EXODUS story daily following all the way to 7/27/2007 - the giving of the 10 Commandments - EXODUS 20:1-17 - and I'll be the lay-presider on that day at OLL - GOD has a sense of humour and HE has the LAST LAUGH - may we just bow down in adoration "because we stand like MOSES on HOLY GROUND..." May the LORD our GOD have MERCY on all of us, forgive our sins and lead us into the PROMISED LAND - a LAND of MILK & HONEY! Amen & Amen - United we stand...

[yinonyavo]

Stephen,

I think here is a good place to pause and preempt certain misconceptions that usually arise. If, as one of the views here considers, Ephraim was physically mixed with the nations and not just merely a type of the Gentile nations, that DOES NOT MEAN that salvation has anything to do with physical race. Even the Israelites as they came out of Egypt were all under God's economy or government, but salvation was still by FAITH. Not all were saved....only a remnant always....

If, indeed, God has physically mixed Ephraim (10 tribes) into all nations, only those who believe in Christ and have been born again are saved.....ALL nations may be mixed with physical Israel by now, but only those who are converted are saved. ALL or most of the saved MAY be physical Israel, but not all physical Israel is saved. The verse which states that then ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED, would most likely mean some from every tribe. Is it possible that God did a "trick" by mixing Ephraim so thoroughly with the nations that all out of the nations who were saved are both physical and spiritual children of Abraham?? Now what would God's purpose in this be? Certainly not to give any special advantage in being of physical descent, for we know that does not in any way guarantee salvation. How about so that none can boast? Ephraim then would not be pure in their genealogy, but, certainly no Jew can boast of being of pure racial descent, for there was always a mixed multitude with the children of Israel. Also, perhaps so that God may have for himself a people of every tribe & tongue & kindred (from every nation, for Ephraim has mixed with all). In this way "all Adam" is represented. It seems to be an important tenant that is repeated often in scripture that his worshippers shall come from every nation, kindred, tongue, etc. ....and God seems to favour the idea of everyone coming from an equally humbled position so that all may realize their true need for a saviour......


"Ro 11:32-33 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

[Stephen]

Hi Yinonyavo!

We are in perfect agreement that salvation has nothing to do with race or ethnicity. It comes about solely by the grace of God, by God's own calling and choosing. In the matter of salvation the flesh is of zero merit, its pedigree of no value, as Paul himself clearly states at Philippians 3:3-8. It is also a certainty that only a remnant of physical Israel will be saved. These self-evident truths do not, however, cancel out the words of the prophets spoken regarding the future condition of the tribes. God's awesome promises to the tribes were still fulfilled, especially those given to the sons of Joseph, who have, indeed, received the promised material abundance that is part of the birthright.

It is really astonishing just how far God has gone in fulfilling His word. The tribe of Ephraim was symbolised by a bullock, a calf or heifer, as at Jeremiah 31:18 and Hosea 10:11. The Hebrew for calf and heifer is egel and eglah, dialectically engel and englah. The language of Ephraim is English - the language of englah, i.e. Ephraim - and is the lingua franca of the world, thanks largely to British colonialism and American globalisation. The English get their name from the Anglo-Saxons, formerly known as the Aegli.

The English and kindred people were predisposed to accepting the gospel, and preordained for taking it to the world. This point is made over and over again by the OT prophets. Particularly, Joseph's calling was unto these ends. (His Egyptian name was Zaphnath-paaneah, which has a dual signification according to which language its roots lie in. It means ' saviour of the age', and 'revealer of secrets'). However, the majority of people within the nations that constitute physical Israel today are slack when it comes to faith. Old habits die hard, I guess!

I live in South Korea, which is not descended from physical Israel. However, the impact that America - an Israelite nation - has had on Korea is phenomenal in terms of the benefits Koreans have accumulated. There is a blessing in sticking with Joseph, because his is the birthright of material abundance and military preeminence (Genesis 49:22-26; Deuteronomy 33:13-17). This birthright is the gift of God, and has nothing to do with human merit. I also guarantee you that, should Korea decide to end its friendship with America, it will very quickly lose the great gains it has made, and will become another North Korea.

I think part of the 'shechem' semantic field means 'shouldering responsibility'. It is obvious to me that the two sons of Joseph today - the UK and the USA - do this admirably, much more so than any other people ever have in the history of humankind. This does not mean that they are saved, only that they are fulfilling part of God's great purpose for the nations, exactly as Israel was supposed to be doing way back at its original calling. However, I must point out that I disagree with you when you say that those of physical descent from Joseph don't get any special advantage. That is clearly not so! Because they live in nominally Protestant Christian nations, they get enormous benefits that others do not. They have instant access to the gospel. They have a rich Christian history to draw upon. They don't get persecuted for their faith. They live in lands of material abundance. I could easily extend this list, but I'd be here all day listing the incredible benefits, all of which were promised by God in the birthright. Think about this for a second: we see people dying to get into America every day, but none trying to leave!

We are in accord when it comes to any fallacy of racial purity. Ephraim himself was born of mixed blood, being half Egyptian and half Hebrew. Foreigners were entitled to join Israel, which they did from the earliest days. Where we possibly differ yet again is in the assumption that Ephraim is mixed amongst all the nations. In a cultural sense, I think this is true, through the language and culture of the West (which is Anglo-American) colonising the world through mass media. However, I do not believe that the tribe of Ephraim is out-and-out a cognomen for Christianity. That stretch obliterates the reality of Ephraim as a nation, which it was always intended to be understood as being. There are boundaries on who Ephraim is and isn't. Christianity definitely comes into it, yes, and is one of the defining characteristics. But I don't think it's valid to say that Ephraim is Christianity ... unless you can convince me otherwise. I think it's far more likely that Ephraim is the British Commonwealth, which is a mixed crowd, a fulness of the Gentiles, a melo haGoyim, most of whom are not Christian, but have a Christian heritage in there somewhere thanks to the British.

This post is too long, and hasn't stayed on the topic of Shechem. Sorry about that, but these topics have a habit of running into other topics once they get past the 30 post mark.

Stephen

[yinonyavo]

Stephen, just a quick post to say that when I say Ephraim was mixed with all nations, I am meaning the whole 10 tribes. While it might very well be the case that American and Britain are primarily Ephraim and Manasseh, I think a good case can be made for the others to have gone, or at least remnants of them, to all nations. ...for the prophesies DO say a MULTITUDE, FULLNESS, MANY nations. Of course, one could argue that American and Britain ARE composed of peoples from every nation.......but I am inclined to lean towards there being some scattered elsewhere too.........

Am 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.


Ps 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
Ps 86:9 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.
Re 15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

[yinonyavo]

Stephen, you also brought up Joseph as the Bull. I want to go into that next, and the witness of the stars...but it will take me till tomorrow I think to get that together.........thanks so much for everyone's input...

Also I still would like to hear some opinions on symbolism of Dinah and/or the Dinah/Shechem episode.....anyone?

[Stephen]

Hi Yinonyavo!

I'm going to preempt the Mazzaroth thing here by making an observation regarding Dinah. Her name is from the same root as Dan, meaning 'judge; judgment'. She is Israel's only daughter according to the scriptural record.

Dan's Mazzaroth emblem is the Hebrew aqrab, from which the word Scorpio comes. Dinah represents, possibly, a supplement to this aspect. Certainly, the sign of Scorpio represents conflict and, very likely, the devil. This sign is the point of conflict on the Mazzaroth wheel of the heavens. Today, we correctly recognise a 13th zodiac sign. The stars of Ophiuchus cross the sun's path through the sky, and so are in every sense zodiacal. Ophiuchus is the snake-holder, anciently depicted with the head of a hawk. You see this today on the obverse side of the Great Seal of the United States, where the eagle holds the scroll (whose shape represents the serpent). But I digress. Ophiuchus is treading upon the Scorpion, at the same time being wounded in the heel. This star picture survives to this day.

The Mazzaroth sign of aqrab represents violence and dissension. One of its etymological significations is 'to wound the heel', being a blend of the Hebrew aqer and aqeb. The meanings that have accumulated around this symbol of the scorpion have resonance with the rape of Dinah. So many of the biblical stories have a Mazzaroth reference if you dig deep enough. Israel was all about the 12 tribes, who on the earth symbolised the 12 signs in the heavens. More on that when a new thread opens on the witness of the stars.

I'd like to write more but I have to get off to work soon. Hope this helps fill out the picture for you.

Stephen

PS: This Mazzaroth teaching has absolutely nothing to do with astrology, which is a perversion of the real meaning of the star names, and the stars as a system of revelation of the glory of God. I stress this point!!!!!!

[yinonyavo]

Thanks Stephen. Lots of good stuff....So why do you think this "conflict" aspect is represented by a woman? I was wondering if there was any way in which she could also symbolize Israel as the NT church/bride. ...or the "cursed/cut off" being grafted back in.........I don't know...its just that the story is SO long and detailed..........it must have some prophetic significance........

[yinonyavo]

I'll start the witness of the stars and Shechem discussion from a Biblewheel page:

http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_406.asp
http://www.biblewheel.com/Wheel/Spokes/Tav_Seal.asp


And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark [Tav] upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. ... Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark [Tav] ; and begin at my sanctuary.

Ezekiel 9.4f

The Tav (Cross) is used of God to mark those who have received his grace. It is used twice in the passage above. This integrates with the Rabinnical tradition that calls Tav "King over Grace." Tav is the perfection of Grace, as encoded in this fundamental relation:

(Tav, Mark/Cross) = 406 = 7 x 58 (Chen, Grace)

and this image:
http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_541.asp


The 541 Israel star is generated by the 28th triangular number 406.....the TAV...the cross

JEWS = יהודים = 75
Jer 52:28 This is the people whom Nebuchadrezzar carried away captive: in the seventh year three thousand Jews and three and twenty:

EPHRAIM = אפרים =331

75 + 331 = 406, i.e. Ephraim(10 tribes of the N. Kingdom) + Jews (Southern Kingdom) = what generates Israel (TAV)

[yinonyavo]

The logos star - 373 - is also the value of "SHECHEM ACHAD"

The logos star fits exactly inside the Israel star (Vernon did a wonderful illustration of this for me once, but I only have this one which has the Israel star (in blue)inside the 1261 star and then the logos star (the seven red stars) inside the Israel star.



9


Which seems to picture perfectly of Israel:
Ro 3:2 .....unto them were committed the oracles of God.

[yinonyavo]

Isaiah 22.22
And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder (SHECHEM); so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

The TAV, remember is concerning spoke 22, which also we have:



This Key is literally the Key to the Bible. It appears here in the 22nd verse of the 22nd chapter of the all-inclusive Book of Isaiah (401), and is itself a multiple of the Number 22! In fact, it is the product of the number of letters in the Hebrew (22) and Greek (24) alphabets:

THE KEY

Maphte'ach
= 528 = 22 x 24

The KEY is subsumed in the same numerical category as the Alphabet itself:

The Alphabet
HaAlephbeyt
= 528

The Key integrates with the structure of the Bible Wheel. The verse from Isaiah 22.22 is quoted in one and only one verse of the Bible, Revelation 3.7. This means that the Key of David forms a KeyLink bewteen Spoke 22 of the Inner Wheel of Isaiah and Spoke 22 of the Bible Wheel!

We can also connect the alphabet with the breastplate and the stones upon the "SHOULDER" of the ephod:
from the Jewish encyclopedia:
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=1433&letter=B

In addition to the names of the twelve tribes, the stones also contained, at the head, the names Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and at the end the words: "[all these are] the tribes of Jeshurun" ......These words could not be omitted from the breastplate, since the whole Hebrew alphabet had to be included, in order that, on consulting the Urim and Thummim, the high priest might be enabled to form words from the different colors of the individual letters on the stones of the breastplate, and hence might be able to answer questions put to him (Yoma, l.c.).

[yinonyavo]

Now, to the witness of the stars part:

The seven stars in the hand of Christ as described by John in Revelation have often been associated in the past with the constellation of the Pleiades, also known simply as the "SEVEN STARS" and so called in Amos.

Am 5:8 Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name:

In two other OT verses the AV translates it by name, but all three are the Hebrew "Kymah". The seven stars are mentioned 4 times in the NT for a total of SEVEN.

Over the years I have tried to collect illustrations from ancient cultures of the Pleiades. Invariably they are shown in the "6 around 1" pattern like the configuration of the logos star, even though the actual configuration that we see is more like a tiny "dipper" and we only see SIX.
14
I also have a family Bible which is well over 100 years old and has hundreds of hand drawn illustrations in the front, one of which is of John's vision of Christ with the seven stars in his right hand.....again, they are arranged in the same "6 around 1" pattern like the logos star. All cultures, almost without exception, have a tradition of a "missing" star from the Pleiades. The Hebrew version relates it directly to the flood of Noah. Others are similar in some way, or at least associated with water, doves, or a tragedy of some sort.......almost all ALSO connect the constellation with the time around the end of October/first of Nov. the traditional time of the flood.

The Pleiades constellation sits on the SHOULDER of Taurus the Bull. The head and horns of this bull are made up of SEVEN STARS also. They are today usually called the HYADES. E. Maunder in his book "The astronomy of the Bible" contends that the biblical mezzeroth probably dates to at least 2700 BC or before, for which he gives numerous proofs and would put the sign of Taurus at the "head" of the year.......and correlates this to Joseph thus being given this blessing as he was given the birthright.

15


De 33:13-17 And of Joseph he said..............His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.

See Bullinger:http://philologos.org/__eb-tws/chap31.htm

The word translated here "unicorn" is said by Gesenius and others to probably be a wild bull, now extinct, called in the Hebrew the Reem. So we have two kinds of bulls here........In any case the Hebrew word for bullock "shuwr" is in the Aramaic "Touwr" and in the Greek "Tauros", from which we get the constellation name Taurus. The Hebrew and Aramaic words are both from a root which means to "travel about", "journey", which fits well with the verse above.

The aramaic form of the word closest to the constellation name, is also found seven times in the OT and only in the plural form Taurin, with a value of 666, the same as the word for DIASPORA...the dispersed in the NT verse in I Peter 1:1. Also, of course connected with the holy of holies.

The bull himself would be symbolic (according to Bullinger and others) of Christ coming in judgment and his head and horns, Joseph. The Jews between his shoulders (Benjamin was joined to Judah in the S. Kingdom) and we have the verse:
De 33:12 And of Benjamin he said, The beloved of the LORD shall dwell in safety by him; and the LORD shall cover him all the day long, and he shall dwell between his shoulders.

The Hebrew word for the Pleiades (Kimah) has a value of 75 = JEWS
Taurin = 666 = Diaspora

So together the two constellations would be JEWS (on the shoulder of Taurus, i.e. Pleiades) and Joseph (Ephraim and Manasseh the bulls head & horns, Taurin) ??????????????


These are all just things I am pondering..........sorry if it seems disjointed as so do my thoughts..................

[Rose]

Hello to all participants in this thread :yo:

Just want to let you all know, I started a new thread on one of the topics that has come up on this thread, Joshua's stone of witness at Shechem. It seems like this thread has branched off in other directions, and Joshua's stone of witness is a whole topic in itself, the connection being its place at Shechem.

The whole Shechem topic is very interesting, and I've been enjoying reading the many posts with all the ideas that have been presented here.

Now theres one more thread open for ideas :)

Rose

[yinonyavo]

Thanks Rose. I have found the Shechem topic so vast that it does seem to go in lots of directions. Thats why I think I really wanted to get a lot of input from others. Maybe that's a good idea...to start some splinter threads on different aspects..........then it doesn't get so long also!!

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Stephen, I agree with you that we - the Church - Catholics and Christians - ARE the 10 LOST TRIBES - without a doubt -
Hi White,

Do you have any evidence for that assertion? If so, please share it with us. And could you please explain who you think the Gentiles are? If the Catholics and Christians are "without a doubt" the "10 LOST TRIBES" then to whom was Paul an Apostle? He never said anything like "seeing ye ... judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the 10 LOST TRIBES!"

NO! That's not what the Bible says, and that's not what Paul did!

In the Bible, Paul said "Lo, we turn to the Gentiles." Acts 13:46 He was the Apostle to the Gentiles, and the people now known as Catholics and Christians are mostly GENTILES. Where did you get this idea that the Catholics and the Christians are the "10 Lost tribes"?

If there is anything we can know "without a doubt" it is that the Catholics and Christians, while containing a small remnant of the ten lost tribes, consist in the overwhelming majority of Gentiles.

Richard

[yinonyavo]

Consider the following verse:

Joh 7:35 Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?

διασπορά Transliteration diaspora - Thayer's Lexicon states this is used only of Israelites or Christian Israelites who are scattered. Note they are called GENTILES by the disciples in this verse. Actually the Greek word here is Helen, meaning the Greeks, which the Jews equated with Gentiles.

JOHN CALVIN on this verse:
Will he go to the dispersion of the Greeks? It is well known that the Jews gave the name of Greeks to all nations beyond the sea; but they do not mean that Christ will go to the uncircumcised nations, but to the Jews, who were dispersed through the various countries of the world. For the word dispersion would not apply to those who are natives of the place, and who inhabit their native soil, but applies well to the Jews, who were fugitives and exiles. Thus Peter inscribes his First Epistle parepidhmoiv diasporav to the strangers of the dispersion, that is, to the strangers who are scattered {1} through Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, (#1Pe 1:1); and James salutes the twelve tribes en th diaspora, in the dispersion, that is, scattered abroad, (#Jas 1:1). The meaning of the words therefore is, "Will he cross the sea, to go to Jews who dwell in a world unknown to us?"

CLARK's COMMENTARY: Verse 35. The dispersed among the Gentiles Or Greeks. By the dispersed, are meant here the Jews who were scattered through various parts of that empire which Alexander the Great had founded, in Greece, Syria, Egypt, and Asia Minor, where the Greek language was used, and where the Jewish Scriptures in the Greek version of the Septuagint were read. Others suppose that the Gentiles themselves are meant—others, that the ten tribes which had been long lost are here intended.

GENEVA COMMENTARY: Literally, "to the dispersion of the Gentiles" or "Greeks", and under the name of the Greeks he refers to the Jews who were dispersed among the Gentiles.


Both Peter and James call the scattered tribes by the same term "diaspora":
Most orthodox commentators agree that literal Israelites are spoken of here. It is well documented that the 10 tribes were considered gentiles by the Jews living in Judea by the time of Christ. The Jews even reclaimed the name Israel for themselves, for the 10 tribes to which the name was given by Jacob were considered by them to be cut off from God.


Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus <2424> Christ , to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad <1290>, greeting.
1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,to the strangers <3927> scattered <1290> throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia....

MATTHEW HENRY: II. The persons to whom this epistle was addressed, and they are described,
1. By their external condition—Strangers dispersed throughout Pontus, Galatia, &c. They were chiefly Jews, descended (as Dr. Prideaux thinks) from those Jews who were translated from Babylon, by order of Antiochus king of Syria, about two hundred years before the coming of Christ, and placed in the cities of Asia Minor. It is very likely that our apostle had been among them, and converted them, being the apostle of the circumcision, and that he afterwards wrote this epistle to them from Babylon, where multitudes of the Jewish nation then resided. At present, their circumstances were poor and afflicted.

Peter goes on to quote from Hosea's prophesy to the 10 tribes that they would become "not a people" and then some day God would again make them "a people". (I Pet 2:10)

CALVIN:Which in time past were not a people. He brings for confirmation a passage from Hosea, and well accommodates it to his own purpose. For Hosea, after having in God’s name declared that the Jews were repudiated, gives them a hope of a future restoration. Peter reminds us that this was fulfilled in his own age; for the Jews were scattered here and there, as the torn members of a body; nay, they seemed to be no longer God’s people, no worship remained among them, they were become entangled in the corruptions of the heathens; it could not then be said otherwise of them, but that they were repudiated by the Lord. But when they are gathered in Christ, from no people they really become the people of God. Paul, in #Ro 9:26, applies also this prophecy to the Gentiles, and not without reason; for from the time the Lord’s covenant was broken, from which alone the Jews derived their superiority, they were put on a level with the Gentiles. It hence follows, that what God had promised, to make a people of no people, belongs in common to both.

Matthew POOLE:Ver. 10. Which in time past were not a people; either, were not a people, i.e. a formed state, or commonwealth, being dispersed in several countries, among other people, and not worth the name of a people: or, were not the people of God, (supplying God out of the opposite clause), since he had given them a bill of divorce, and said Lo-ammi and Lo-ruhamah to them, #Ho 1:1-11. These were the Jews of the dispersion, and such as had not returned out of the Babylonish captivity, together with many of other tribes mixed with them, who, before their conversion to Christ, seemed cut off from the body of that people, had no solemn worship of God among them, and were tainted with the corruptions of the heathen, with whom they conversed.

There are also many commentators who ascribe the prophesy of Hosea only to the Gentiles...........that even thought the prophesy was spoken to Ephraim/Israel, it was really meant for the Gentiles who would one day turn to Christ. Certainly that is a possibility....it is also possible that both were meant, but to say that it is a stretch to say God through Hosea meant EXACTLY what he said....that Ephraim and the 10 tribes would literally become "not a people" by mixing with the nations, and then God would again make their descendants, LITERALLY, his people through the Gospel, is not a fair criticism.........Certainly, I think, it seems reasonable to consider that God meant EXACTLY what he said. I am not dogmatic about either view, but consider that either way or both.......the type is still important and fruitful to study. God was emphatic about gathering a people to himself from EVERY NATION, so either way, no nation is excluded, and if God chose to literally mix the blood of Israel with all nations so that all his promises would be fulfilled literally....well then praise God!

[yinonyavo]

Putting aside the question of the literal or spiritual aspect of Ephraim in the church, etc................I would like to keep the thread focused on SHECHEM and the promise of "SHECHEM ACHAD" (ONE CONSENT/SHOULDER) and the inheritance of the promises of the FIRSTHBORN which are fulfilled in the church (of whomever she is made up). We are the church of the FIRSTBORN, because we are in Christ, the FIRSTBORN of God. The inheritance of the church of the double portion of SHECHEM ACHAD, I think, can be seen in the following:

We have been made one with Christ and each other:

Ro 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

...in ONE ACCORD, found 7 times in Acts:
Ac 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
Ac 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Ac 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Ac 4:24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
Ac 5:12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon’s porch.
Ac 8:6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.
Ac 15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

ONE ACCORD=754
I found in the new data base:
Psa 16:11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy(=754); at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received(=754) and heard, and hold fast, and repent

This ONENESS is the very prayer Christ prayed for us:

Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

And the ONENESS that is mystery of Christ:

Eph 2:14-15 and 3:4-6 ..For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.......Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

[Rose]

Hi YinonYavo :yo:


There are also many commentators who ascribe the prophesy of Hosea only to the Gentiles...........that even thought the prophesy was spoken to Ephraim/Israel, it was really meant for the Gentiles who would one day turn to Christ. Certainly that is a possibility....it is also possible that both were meant, but to say that it is a stretch to say God through Hosea meant EXACTLY what he said....that Ephraim and the 10 tribes would literally become "not a people" by mixing with the nations, and then God would again make their descendants, LITERALLY, his people through the Gospel, is not a fair criticism.........Certainly, I think, it seems reasonable to consider that God meant EXACTLY what he said. I am not dogmatic about either view, but consider that either way or both.......the type is still important and fruitful to study. God was emphatic about gathering a people to himself from EVERY NATION, so either way, no nation is excluded, and if God chose to literally mix the blood of Israel with all nations so that all his promises would be fulfilled literally....well then praise God!

Well said, my feelings exactly :thumb:


I would like to keep the thread focused on SHECHEM and the promise of "SHECHEM ACHAD" (ONE CONSENT/SHOULDER) and the inheritance of the promises of the FIRSTHBORN which are fulfilled in the church (of whomever she is made up). We are the church of the FIRSTBORN, because we are in Christ, the FIRSTBORN of God. The inheritance of the church of the double portion of SHECHEM ACHAD.........

I would like to focus first on "inheritance", there are a number of verses that speak of Israel & Jacob "God's people" as being God's inheritance. I'll just quote a few.

Deut. 32:9 "For the Lord's portion is His people; Jacob is the place of His inheritance"
Psalm 28:9 "Save your people, and bless Your inheritance;"
Psalm 74:2 "The tribe of Your inheritance, which You have redeemed"
Psalm 78:62 "He also gave His people over to the sword, and was furious with His inheritance"
Psalm 78:71 " To shepherd Jacob His people,and Israel His inheritance."
Isa. 19:25 "...."Blessed is Egypt My people, and Assyria the work of My hands, and Israel My inheritance."
Jer. 51:19 "....And Israel is the tribe of His inheritance."

The inheritance of God, being Israel & Jacob in the OT, has now included us, being adopted in as sons of God through Christ.

In Ephesians 1:18 is says "...that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints."

Which is clearly speaking of us "Christians" being His inheritance. His inheritance in the saints is: the continuance (thats us) of God's Firstborn, (Christ).


Eph 2:14-15 and 3:4-6 ..For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.......Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ, Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

The extra portion that Christ received being the Firstborn of God, we as fellow heirs of the promises receive, and also share in His portion.


The inheritance of the church of the double portion of SHECHEM ACHAD,



Rose

[yinonyavo]

Rose, I'm so glad you brought up that point. Christ too has an inheritance. We are his peculiar treasure, his crown of jewels. I like especially the verses:

Isa 66:20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

Isa 49:22 Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.

[White]

Yinonyavo,

Isaiah 49:22 is exactly the verse for tonight - 9th AV - the saddest day in Jewish History - connect to www.aisha.com - great stories and history -
because the Temple was destroyed on this day twice - 587BC and 70AD - but GOD has watchmen & watchwomen on the wall praying without ceasing for the LORD'S supernatural protection over HIS HOLY LAND and HIS PEOPLE - the 12 Tribes of Israel and all who put their trust in our LORD and SAVIOR Y'SHUA HA-MASHIACH - Jesus the Christ. Amen.
Shalom,
White

[Richard Amiel McGough]

GOD has watchmen & watchwomen on the wall praying without ceasing for the LORD'S supernatural protection over HIS HOLY LAND and HIS PEOPLE - the 12 Tribes of Israel and all who put their trust in our LORD and SAVIOR Y'SHUA HA-MASHIACH - Jesus the Christ. Amen.
Shalom,
White

What??? Are you saying that "God's People" is a group that includes unbelievers and Christ-deniers right along with "all who put their trust in our LORD and SAVIOR" Jesus Christ?

How can you think that? First of all, the idea is completely incoherent, since there is no fellowship between light and darkness (2 Cor 6:14). And second, have you never read Romans 9? Your statement directly contradicts the plain teaching of the Bible:


Romans 9:7-8 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. There it is. The Bible explicitly states that being a "seed of Abraham" does NOT mean that one is a "child of God." Let me repeat: the Bible explicitly states that the unbelieving natural sons of Abraham (the 12 Tribes, as you put it) are NOT the children of God. They are "children of the flesh." They are not "God's People"

I would be delighted if you could explain how you come to your very unorthodox and unbiblical conclusions. But somehow I don't think you will even try, because I have asked you at least a dozen very important questions in my efforts to discuss this with you, and you have ignored them all.

Richard

[White]

Hi Richard,
Sour today? I thought you knew me better than that! Have I ever said that SALVATION WITHOUT ACCEPTING JESUS / Y'SHUA is possible? Show me the post!
Jealous of God's irrevocable call to HIS people the JEWS?
We are supposed to make THEM jealous -
Romans 11:11
Hence I ask, did they stumble so as to fall? Of course NOT! But through their transgression (not accepting Y'SHUA / JESUS as Messiah) salvation has come to the Gentiles (non Jews - not from the 12 Tribes) so as to make them jealous. (12) Now if their transgression is enrichment for the world, and if their diminished number is enrichment for the Gentiles, how much more their FULL NUMBER. Now I'm speaking to you Gentiles - (hello RIchard...). Inasmuch then as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I glory in my ministry (14) in order to make MY RACE (THE JEWS) jealous and thus SAVE SOME OF THEM (HIS RACE the JEWS) - (15) For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the WORLD, what will their acceptance (of Y'shua/JESUS as LORD & SAVIOR) be but LIFE FROM THE DEAD? (16) If the firstfruits are holy, so is the whole batch of dough; and if the root is holy, so are the branches."
: Romans 11:25 : I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, Brothers, (hello?) , so that you will not become wise in your own estimation; a hardening has come upon ISRAEL in part, until the full number of the GENTILES comes in, (26) and thus ALL ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED, as it is written: The deliverer will come out of Zion, he will turn away godlessness fron Jacob: and this is MY CONVENANT with them, when I take away their sins." (28) In respect to the GOSPEL (THE NEW TESTAMENT) they (The Jewish People) are enemies on your (Gentiles) account; but in respect to election, they are beloved, because of the PATRIARCHS. "FOR THE GIFTS and the CALL OF GOD ARE IRREVOCABLE."

Thank God the LORD is not a promise breaker and HE never changes HIS MIND - therefore we can trust His Covenant and KNOW that HE will open their eyes as JESUS so clearly says in Matthews 13:14 : Isaiah's prophecy is fulfilled in them which says: You shall indeed hear but not understand, you shall indeed look but never see. Gross is the heart of this people, they will hardly hear with their ears, they have closed their eyes, lest they SEE with their eyes and HEAR with their ears and UNDERSTAND with their heart and be CONVERTED and I (JESUS / Y'SHUA) HEAL THEM." It is HIS duty, HIS priviledge, HIS plan, to open their eyes to HIMSELF - Is anything to hard for HIM? ( HIM = JESUS / Y'SHUA).

If anybody can enter the KINGDOM OF GOD without accepting JESUS CHRIST as LORD AND SAVIOR, then HIS DEATH on the cross became meaningless and was good for nothing. Do we agree on that RICHARD?

All of Romans 9-11 (notice 911 hint, hint,)is important - too long to quote besides:
11:32 : "FOR GOD DELIVERED ALL TO DISOBEDIENCE, THAT HE MIGHT HAVE MERCY UPON ALL." And we NEED HIS MERCY - mercy upon all - that is Jews, Christians, Muslims, the whole world.

The road is narrow, the gate is high...
Shalom / Peace to JERUSALEM and the HOLY LAND
Shalom to you Richard - LIGHTEN UP - I'M A SOLDIER FOR CHRIST
Shalom to all who LOVE JESUS and ISRAEL
Blessings - PSALM 122:6
White

PS Jeremiah 31:31-34, Ezekiel 37:15-28, Isaiah 19:25, Amos 9:11-15 etc.
Ezekiel 33:1-7 - ... When I bring the sword against a country... and the watchman seeing the sword coming against the country, blows the trumpet to warn the people... (I'm blowing the trumpet - anybody listening?) (7) You, son of man, I have appointed watchman for the house of Israel: when you hear me say anything, you shall warn them for me.

What good is all the argueing, I'm now going to pray for my hour with the LORD - and I'm praying especially for the Jewish People. That the LORD would open their eyes to HIMSELF. Good NIGHT.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hi Richard,
Sour today? I thought you knew me better than that! Have I ever said that SALVATION WITHOUT ACCEPTING JESUS / Y'SHUA is possible? Show me the post!
I wish I did "know you better than that" White! But the only way I can get to know you is to read what you write, and when I do, I find things that are extremely troubling, so I tried to talk to you about them (in a gentle tone, I might add) and then you completely misunderstood my questions about your doctrine as being questions about your personal faith, and then you ignored all my attempts to clarify and you ignored all my simple and straightforward questions. So how was I supposed to "know" what you meant? You refused to talk to me, and continued writing things that certainly seem to contradict the plain teaching of the Bible on many points.

So what did you mean when you lumped the 12 unbelieving tribes in with the believing Christians as "God's People"? You have said things that don't make any sense to me. On the one hand, you say the 10 tribes are Catholics and Christians and then you say that the 12 tribes (which you seem to identify as the unbelieving fleshly sons of Abraham) are "God's People" along with the Catholics and Christians. Its all very confusing, and it really seems far removed from the teaching of the Bible about the fleshly sons of Abraham. But you won't discuss this, so how in the world am I supposed to "know you better than that"?

You wrote a long post with lots of red highlights, but you did not address the point of my last post.

Do you understand what I am saying? Its like this: You wrote ABC. I responded specifically to ABC and wrote DEF. You then ignored both ABC and DEF and wrote the non-sequitur QW833LF8.

I would like to have a conversation with you about the things you believe. Its really very simple. If I ask a question, just answer the question directly. Then you can ask me a question, and I will do my best to answer directly, so we both will be tracking with each other, and hopefully be able to understand each other.

Peace in Christ,

Richard

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Shalom to you Richard - LIGHTEN UP - I'M A SOLDIER FOR CHRIST
You're a soldier for Christ?

Amen!

I'm a Sergeant for Christ. He called to toughen up the troops.

As for lightening up ... I have been going light! You should should see me when I have to be tough! It is necessary preparation for the spiritual battle that lies ahead.

Carry on, Soldier!

Richard

http://www.BibleWheel.com/images/FirstMasterSgt.jpg

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hi Folks,

I moved White's latest post to its own thread called "Who are Gods' Children?" so this thread can get back to its already very dispersed topic on Shechem. I encourage everyone interested in that other issue to participate there.

For those who want to discuss Shechem, it is time to get ...:focus:


Richard

[yinonyavo]

I'll see if we can't get some discussion going on this thread again.........


BODY(physical)..........MIND(legal)............. SPIRIT(living)

We call our Holy book by three different names not realizing sometimes the origin and differences between them.....

BIBLE
SCRIPTURES
the WORD

The Hebrew and Greek words that correspond to these are:

1. BIBLE.....................cepher.................. biblos (314)
2. SCRIPTURES............katav.................. graphe (612)
3. WORD.....................dabar................... logos (373)

The first group corresponding to BIBLE describe the PHYSICAL object....a BOOK

The second group corresponding to SCRIPTURES describe the MENTAL teachings or writings

The third group corresponding to the WORD describe the LIVING (SPIRITUAL) aspect.


We are joined to Christ in body, mind and spirit:

1. The PHYSICAL joining to the body is accomplished in our MARRIAGE to him:
Eph 5:30-31 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.


MARRIAGE = 314 (Mt 22:2)



2. The MENTAL or LEGAL joining to Christ is accomplished by the new COVENANT:
2Co 3:14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Jer 31:33 (NLT) "But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day," says the LORD. "I will put my laws in their minds(AV-inward parts..qereb, the seat of thoughts and emotions), and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.


COVENANT = 612



3. We are joined in SPIRIT to Christ being born again by the LOGOS (Word), becoming with him the inheritor of the birthright of the firstborn....the double portion....which is "SHECHEM ACHAD" (one shoulder, one consent, one accord)

1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.


SHECHEM ACHAD = 373




1. BIBLE.....................cepher.................. biblos (314) = marriage (physical oneness)
2. SCRIPTURES............katav..................graph e(612) = covenant (legal oneness)
3. WORD.....................dabar...................l ogos (373) = Shechem achad (spitual oneness)



314 + 612 + 373 = 1299 1299 = rhema (Luke 24:8)


1Pe 1:25 But the word (rhema) of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word(rhema) which by the gospel is preached unto you.

[Yarah]

Shalom to all;
Just a short note on the spiritual implications of what I have read here so far.
As was mentioned, Abram, father of faith, first pitched his tent there. Between the two mountains,
Gerizim= the mt of Blessings
Ebal = the mt of curses
It was between these two Mountains that Mose brought the children of Israel, and he (Moses) placed a priest on the top of each mountain, on Gerizim, the preast read aloud to the hearing of the people, the blessings of God. From Mt Ebal a priest read aloud to the hearing of the people, the curses of God. Moses told the people:
Deu 30:1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
It was here, that Moses said:
Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Remember that in the "mouths of two or three witnesses that truth is established, and testified to.

Spiritually, I see the following
When we come to faith (as represented by Abram) we walk in a valley (the world) and we carry the burden (our choice) upon our shoulder (shechem) of God's truth. We are to choose (this day) between God's Torah (His teaching and instructions) and worldly pursuits.

Concerning the rape of Dinah, and the subsequent avenging of that defilement. The name Dinah means "Judgment or one who judges"
Spiritually, one's choice of the blessings (by following God's instructions) or the curses (by disobedience) leads to God's judgment (and our future) which brings us back to the "place" where it all (our faith) began. It began when we were called (like out of ur?) and the burden of the Lord was placed upon our shoulder (Shechem). It is written:
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
The yoke was carried upon the Shechem

Another interesting insight is when Joseph was sent to his brethren, who should have been at Shechem, (bearing [shouldering]their burden) tending the sheep, but instead, were at Dothan.
The LOrd told Peter "if you love me, feed MY sheep"
The name means "two wells".
We cannot drink from two wells, the well of the world, and the well of our salvation, for as it is written:
Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jam 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
Jam 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
The spiritual implications here are very deep, and affect our eternal destiny.

Let this be a spiritual lesson for us all
Let us choose this day, and choose life

[Stephen]

Hello yinonyavo!

My initial thoughts on your divisions of:

Bible - biblos - marriage
Scriptures - graphe - covenant
Word - logos - shechem echadIt's an interesting attempt to find order from these concepts, if indeed order is meant to be found.

Concerning (1), wouldn't it make more sense to apply the concept of marriage here to the fact that the Bible is composed of an Old and a New Testament? As the Bible is a book, the physical elements of that book are its two covenants.

Concerning (2), I would liken your concept more to that of a written language, what the linguist de Saussure referred to as langue. By way of contrast, I would liken your concept at (3) to de Saussure's parole, which is language being spoken, the langue in action, as it were.

The first concept at (1) is a wee bit problematic as I don't think the Bible uses the word biblos to refer to itself or to the Scriptures, at least not as a corpus. However, in fairness, it is the first word of the New Testament. At best, in a roundabout kind of way, it might be said at a pinch that we use the word biblos retrospectively to refer to the Bible.

Stephen

[shalag]

Shalom to all;
Just a short note on the spiritual implications of what I have read here so far.
As was mentioned, Abram, father of faith, first pitched his tent there. Between the two mountains,
Gerizim= the mt of Blessings
Ebal = the mt of curses
It was between these two Mountains that Mose brought the children of Israel, and he (Moses) placed a priest on the top of each mountain, on Gerizim, the preast read aloud to the hearing of the people, the blessings of God. From Mt Ebal a priest read aloud to the hearing of the people, the curses of God. Moses told the people:
Deu 30:1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
It was here, that Moses said:
Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Remember that in the "mouths of two or three witnesses that truth is established, and testified to.

Spiritually, I see the following
When we come to faith (as represented by Abram) we walk in a valley (the world) and we carry the burden (our choice) upon our shoulder (shechem) of God's truth. We are to choose (this day) between God's Torah (His teaching and instructions) and worldly pursuits.

Concerning the rape of Dinah, and the subsequent avenging of that defilement. The name Dinah means "Judgment or one who judges"
Spiritually, one's choice of the blessings (by following God's instructions) or the curses (by disobedience) leads to God's judgment (and our future) which brings us back to the "place" where it all (our faith) began. It began when we were called (like out of ur?) and the burden of the Lord was placed upon our shoulder (Shechem). It is written:
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
The yoke was carried upon the Shechem

Another interesting insight is when Joseph was sent to his brethren, who should have been at Shechem, (bearing [shouldering]their burden) tending the sheep, but instead, were at Dothan.
The LOrd told Peter "if you love me, feed MY sheep"
The name means "two wells".
We cannot drink from two wells, the well of the world, and the well of our salvation, for as it is written:
Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jam 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
Jam 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
The spiritual implications here are very deep, and affect our eternal destiny.

Let this be a spiritual lesson for us all
Let us choose this day, and choose life
I've read this passage - several times. Today my ear was awake - my faith is increased, especially in the trial I am facing. Todah Rabah

[White]

Hi Stephen and all,

Concerning (1), wouldn't it make more sense to apply the concept of marriage here to the fact that the Bible is composed of an Old and a New Testament? As the Bible is a book, the physical elements of that book are its two covenants.

This quote of yours reminds me of

Song of Solomon 6:13 (King James Version)

13Return, return, O Shulamite; return, return, that we may look upon thee. What will ye see in the Shulamite? As it were the company of two armies.


New Living Translation (NLT)


Young Women of Jerusalem
13 [a]Return, return to us, O maid of Shulam.
Come back, come back, that we may see you again.
Young Man
Why do you stare at this young woman of Shulam,
as she moves so gracefully [B]between two lines of dancers?

Footnotes:

Song of Solomon 6:13 Verse 6:13 is numbered 7:1 in Hebrew text.
Song of Solomon 6:13 Or as you would at the movements of two armies? or as you would at the dance of Mahanaim? The meaning of the Hebrew is uncertain.


Amplified Bible (AMP)

13[I began to flee, but they called to me] Return, return, O Shulammite; return, return, that we may look upon you! [I replied] What is there for you to see in the [poor little] Shulammite? [And they answered] As upon a dance before two armies or a dance of Mahanaim.





The Message (MSG)

13 Dance, dance, dear Shulammite, Angel-Princess!
Dance, and we'll feast our eyes on your grace!
Everyone wants to see the Shulammite dance
her victory dances of love and peace.


The two companies - the two companies, the two armies, the two dancers... how can one understand what GOD is telling us?

The Old and the New are dancing together - and become ONE - ECHAD! supported by many other scriptures, such as
Jeremiah 31:22, 31:31-34, Jeremiah 51:19 : Not like these is the portion of Jacob, he is the creator of all things; Israel is his very own tribe, LORD of hosts is his name.
But none as convincing as Ezekiel Chapter 37:15ff:
15The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,

16Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:

17And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

18And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?

19Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

20And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

21And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

Two Kingdoms, two nations, two sticks.... Jews and Christians becoming ONE ECHAD!

Shalom to Jerusalem and the Holy Land
Shalom to all who worship Y'shua Ha-mashiach on this Shabbat
Shalom to people of all faith and goodwill to those who do Your will, O GOD, who have surrendered their life to you, believing every word You have spoken and every signs You have provided, so that we may keep our faith and become ONE with our LORD JESUS/Y'SHUA, our Bridegroom. AMen & Amen.

Shabbat Shalom and have a great Labor Day Weekend
White


PS

In our bibles the verse is Song of Songs 6:13 = 613 Mitzvots or
read from right to left JOHN 3:16 : "FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD...."

[Paula]

Let's not forget the beauty of this place with the fountains of water that flowed into the valley...the commerce that occurred here...it is a place of beauty.."The situation of the town is one of surpassing beauty. It lies in a sheltered valley, protected by Gerizim on the south and Ebal on the north. The feet of these mountains, where they rise from the town, are not more than five hundred yards apart. The bottom of the valley is about 1800 feet above the level of the sea, and the top of Gerizim 800 feet higher still. The sit of the present city, which was also that of the Hebrew city, occurs exactly on the water-summit; and streams issuing from the numerous springs there flow down the opposite slopes of the valley, spreading verdure and fertility in every direction. Travellers vie with each other in the language which they employ to describe the scene that here bursts so suddenly upon them on arriving in spring or early summer at this paradise of the holy land. "The whole valley," says Dr. Robinson, "was filled with gardens of vegetables and orchards of all kinds of fruits, watered by fountains which burst forth in various parts and flow westward in refreshing streams. it came upon us suddenly like a scene of fairy enchantment. We saw nothing to compare with it in all Palestine." http://biblehub.com/topical/s/shechem.htm