A Symmetrical Pattern in Jewish History

[Craig.Paardekooper]

Here I wish to outline a rather odd pattern that has emerged, or rather has become apparent. All dates are based on the Ussher chronology.

The first inkling of a pattern was suggested by the parallel between the gentile captivity, that began with the Babylonian conquest of Jerusalem, and the Egyptian captivity. What is so curious is that both captivities are said to have lasted 430 years. Hmmmm, such a curious repetition of history seems to indicate that God had set the duration for both events - deliberately - for some purpose. The prophet Ezekiel divided the period gentile captivity into two periods, vis 40 + 390 years.

Now, the opposite of captivity is kingdom, and what is truely remarkable is that the Kingdom of Israel (the time during which Israel had a king) was 40 + 40 + 40 + 390 years.
Infact, the period of Israels monarchy divides neatly into two sub periods - the period of united kingdom, and the period of divided kingdom. It so happens that the divided kingdom lasted 390 years, and the united kingdom lasted 120 years under three successive monarchs - each reigning 40 years!!

Consider this for a moment - the Kingdoms of the Gentiles lasted 390 + 40 years according to Ezekiel.
The Kingdom of Israel lasted 390 + 40 + 40 + 40 yrs.

It seems almost certain that these two durations were meant to parallel one another. Part of the meaning of this is that God gave equal time to Jew and Gentile. Fairness prevailed. But there is undoutedly a deeper meaning.

430 yrs - Egyptian Captivity
395 yrs - Wilderness and Judges
40 yrs - Saul
40 yrs - David
40 yrs - Solomon
390 yrs - Divided Kingdom
430 yrs - Gentile Captivity


The whole pattern centers on two numbers 40 + 390


The Bible tells us that the Egyptian Captivity lasted 430 years.

Ezekiel foretold that the Times of the Gentiles would be a time of captivity that would also last 430 years. He divided this period into two parts, 390 + 40 years.

It therefore comes as quite a surprise to discover that the period of Israelite Monarchy prior to the Gentile Captivity divides naturally into 40 + 40 + 40 + 390 years. During the reigns of Saul (40 yrs), David (40 yrs) and Solomon (40 yrs) the Kingdom of Israel was united. However, after Solomon the Kingdom of Israel became divided into a Northern Kingdom (consisting of 10 tribes), and a Southern Kingdom (consisting of 2 tribes – Benjamin and Judah). The divided kingdom lasted 390 years – from it’s beginning down to it’s last monarch.

To complete this pattern, we find that the period of the Judges (including the wandering in the Wilderness) comes to 395 years – an approximation to 390.



A basic pattern can be seen. The Egyptian Captivity lasted 430 years. This was followed by the period of the Judges lasting 395 years. However, Samuel was the last judge of Israel, during which time Saul was king, so the period of the judges comes to 395 + 40 years.

Then there is the reign of King David lasting 40 years.

After the reign of King David, Solomon became King and reigned 40 years. It was during Solomon's reign that Israel began to practice idolatry. Consequently the kingdom became divided, and remained so for 390 years, until the Gentile Captivity.

Finally, the gentile captivity itself, would last 430 years, according to Ezekiel.

Oddly enough, the end of the 430 years coincides with the victory of the Maccabees over the Greeks in 165 B.C resulting in Jewish independence for the first time in 430 years ! This independence was to last just over 100 years until the Romans came to occupy Judea.



Numerical Observations


The pattern is symmetrical

The pattern is built around 430. And 43 is the main factor in Elohim (2 x 43)

The period of united Kingdom = 430 – 310. And 31 is the main factor in God (31)

The twelve tribes were united for 120 years. And 12 relates to the twelve tribes.

The centre of the pattern is the reign of King David.



We have seen how Israel occilated between Captivity and Kingdom. During captivity they were subject to others, whilst during periods of kingdom they sought to subjugate others. Perhaps both the supremacy of kingdom and the humiliation of slavery are equally wrong. Jesus came with a third alternative that might allow us to escape from this occilation - a spiritual kingdom based on true inner freedom. Perhaps the only way to escape the violent occilation between supremacy and slavery is to choose the spiritual kingdom?

[Victor]

Here I wish to outline a rather odd pattern that has emerged, or rather has become apparent. All dates are based on the Ussher chronology.


430 yrs - Egyptian Captivity
395 yrs - Wilderness and Judges
40 yrs - Saul
40 yrs - David
40 yrs - Solomon
390 yrs - Divided Kingdom
430 yrs - Gentile Captivity


The whole pattern centers on two numbers 40 + 390

The Bible tells us that the Egyptian Captivity lasted 430 years.
Ezekiel foretold that the Times of the Gentiles would be a time of captivity that would also last 430 years. He divided this period into two parts, 390 + 40 years.
It therefore comes as quite a surprise to discover that the period of Israelite Monarchy prior to the Gentile Captivity divides naturally into 40 + 40 + 40 + 390 years. During the reigns of Saul (40 yrs), David (40 yrs) and Solomon (40 yrs) the Kingdom of Israel was united. However, after Solomon the Kingdom of Israel became divided into a Northern Kingdom (consisting of 10 tribes), and a Southern Kingdom (consisting of 2 tribes – Benjamin and Judah). The divided kingdom lasted 390 years – from it’s beginning down to it’s last monarch.
To complete this pattern, we find that the period of the Judges (including the wandering in the Wilderness) comes to 395 years – an approximation to 390.

Numerical Observations

The pattern is symmetrical
The pattern is built around 430. And 43 is the main factor in Elohim (2 x 43)
The period of united Kingdom = 430 – 310. And 31 is the main factor in God (31)
The twelve tribes were united for 120 years. And 12 relates to the twelve tribes.
The centre of the pattern is the reign of King David.

This is very good Craig! And very simple. It is hard to date the period of the judges and of the divided kingdom, but the approximation suffices for the purposes of identification of the pattern, and even this difficulty is reflected in that it appears in the same pair of periods.

The pattern reiterates the 3 pairs + 1 central unpaired element structure that we find so often in Scripture, like in the design of the Menorah, the Seven Days of Creation, the gates in Temple of Ezekiel and the Seven Canonical Divisions of the Bible.

This 3 + 1 structure reflects the organization of the Gospels (Synoptics + John) and this fourfoldness is delineated in Scripture in Ezekiel on Spoke 4 of the Bible Wheel, when he recieves the prophecy concerning the 390 + 40 years.

David the King appropriately stands in the center.

There's a lot more that could be said. But I don't understand your use of gematria in this context, specifically the connection to Elohim/El (2*43, 31). I don't see any natural link to the name of God here.

[Raphael]

The pattern is symmetrical


hello craig,
you many find this interesting...

god vs. man?
symmetry vs. asymmetry

ancient religious scripture vs. NOBEL prize in 2008 for asymmetry?
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/2008/07/03/left-hand-pathuniversal-asymmetryright-hand-path/

Is symmetry vs. asymmetry a key to helping unlock the mysteries?

YES
IMHO

namaste

[Craig.Paardekooper]

Thankyou for the link Raphael,

Nature is full of symmetry. So it is interesting that the history of Israel seems approximately symmetrical in it's outline.

The Israelites endured the captivity in Egypt for 430 years until the Exodus, and then we are told in Ezekiel that the gentile captivity was also to last 430 years. Here is an instance of symmetry.

That the reign of Israels divided kingdom should have endured for 390 years prior to the gentile captivity also arouses surprise and interest, since Ezekiel had divided the gentile captivity into two periods of 390 years and 40 years respectively. This coincidence is confirmed when we learn Solomon, David and Saul each reigned 40 years prior to the 390 years.

Here we see a symmetrical balance between Israel's kingdom and the gentile kindgoms. Such symmetry is a symbol for balance and fairness - impartiality - the cornerstone of justice.

Of course the symmetry does not end here.

Further symmetries are apparent. I would like to refer you to my book - "The Sign of the Son of Man" where I outline the most beautiful and remarkable symmetries. You can find it here. http://www.craigdemo.co.uk/craig.htm

Over the last 27 years that I have studied these matters, my enthusiasm is hardly diminished, and my respect for the Scriptures has been constantly nourished by these extraordinary patterns.

God speaks through numbers, and I dare to suggest that these patterns are not the invention of human minds but evidence of God's hand in the shaping of human history.

I hope you can let others know about these things, since the world needs to know, and it is certain that many people are unaware.

Regards

Craig

[Raphael]

Thankyou for the link Raphael,

Nature is full of symmetry. So it is interesting that the history of Israel seems approximately symmetrical in it's outline.


Actually nature is full of asymmetry.
I googled nature's golden spiral...
8 million returns here is the page:
http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&um=1&ei=vE7HSvHLMsyV8Ab4lITiCA&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=nature%27s+golden+spiral&spell=1&start=0

http://static.squidoo.com/resize/squidoo_images/-1/draft_lens2300974module12713338photo_1240036810phi _collage.jpg

The images that appear are those of the phi / fibonacci golden spiral.

The significance of phi is considered by many to be greater than that of pi and the famous Greek philosopher Plato, thought it to be "the key to the physics of the cosmos".
Asymmetry seems to be the default mechanism on the prison planet due to beta decay or PT symmetry violation.

As I mentioned in 2008 Nobel finally got around to awarding a prize to three physicists for proving matter and anti-matter are asymmetric.



So it is interesting that the history of Israel seems approximately symmetrical in it's outline.


The history seems symmetrical because we equate divinity with symmetry.
The human body is not symmetrical, the earth is not symmetrical, the asymmetrical heliosphere suggests our solar system is NOT symmetrical.

Framing the narrative as a symmetry if you are discussing GOD, or a universal balance makes sense.
BUT the FACT is ... on the prison planet ... ASYMMETRY rules the domain down here.
And asymmetry can be defined as a breakdown of symmetry.

My theory is the fall of man, his fall from grace, is just that.
ASYMMETRY is the scientific equivalent of the fall of man.
The beginning of the end.
Being ejected from the perfect world, the garden of eden.



I hope you can let others know about these things, since the world needs to know, and it is certain that many people are unaware.

Regards

Craig

Craig are you sure we are on the same page?

namaste

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Actually nature is full of asymmetry.
I googled nature's golden spiral...
8 million returns here is the page:
http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&um=1&ei=vE7HSvHLMsyV8Ab4lITiCA&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=nature%27s+golden+spiral&spell=1&start=0 (http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&um=1&ei=vE7HSvHLMsyV8Ab4lITiCA&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=nature%27s+golden+spiral&spell=1&start=0)

http://static.squidoo.com/resize/squidoo_images/-1/draft_lens2300974module12713338photo_1240036810phi _collage.jpg

The images that appear are those of the phi / fibonacci golden spiral.
.

Hey there Raphael,

I don't know why you think that spirals are not symmetrical. I see them as exhibiting an extremely elegant symmetry. You can read about it in this article called The Law of spiral symmetry transformation (http://www.goldenmuseum.com/1607SpiralSymmetry_engl.html). Here is a snippet:
As is well known from biology a relative arrangement of very different sprouts arising in the cones of shoots is characterized by the "spiral symmetry". This arrangement principle was named "phyllotaxis". On the surface of phyllotaxis forms, especially in the closely packed botanic structures (pine cone, pineapple, cactus, head of sunflower etc.), one can see clearly visible left- and right curved series of sprouts. As to the symmetry order of phyllotaxis forms there exists a practice to indicate it through the ratios of the numbers corresponding to the number of the left- and right-hand spirals. In accordance with the law of phyllotaxis such ratios are given by the number sequence generated by the Fibonacci recurrent relationship
And if you are interested, you can read this 449 page book called Spiral Symmetry (http://www.amazon.com/Spiral-Symmetry-Istvan-Hargittai/dp/9810206151) which is described as follows:
From the tiny twisted biological molecules to the gargantuan curling arms of many galaxies, the physical world contains a startling repetition of spiral patterns. Today, researchers have a keen interest in identifying, measuring, and defining these patterns in scientific terms. Spirals play an important role in the growth processes of many biological forms and organisms. Also through time, humans have imitated spiral motifs in their art forms, and invented new and unusual spirals which have no counterparts in the natural world. Therefore, one goal of this multiauthored book is to stress the conspicuous role that spirals play in science, and to show the reader how to create such spirals using a computer. Another goal is to show how simple mathematical formulas can reveal magnificent shapes and images. This interdisciplinary book revolves around a common theme, spiral symmetry, and is intended for scientists, humanists, and interested laypeople.
The key to understanding why spirals are considered symmetric is found in the definitions of "spiral" and "symmetry" -

Main Entry: sym·me·try
Pronunciation: \ˈsi-mə-trē\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural sym·me·tries
Etymology: Latin symmetria, from Greek, from symmetros symmetrical, from syn- + metron measure — more at measure
Date: 1563
balanced proportions; also : beauty of form arising from balanced proportions
the property of being symmetrical; especially : correspondence in size, shape, and relative position of parts on opposite sides of a dividing line or median plane or about a center or axis — compare bilateral symmetry, radial symmetry
a rigid motion of a geometric figure that determines a one-to-one mapping onto itself
the property of remaining invariant under certain changes (as of orientation in space, of the sign of the electric charge, of parity, or of the direction of time flow) —used of physical phenomena and of equations describing themA spiral is one of the most basic examples of symmetry because it is invariant over scale. Here is a classic quote on this point:
"But the shell retains its unchanging form in spite of its assymetrical growth; it grows at one end only ... . And this remarkable property of increasing by terminal growth, but nevertheless retaining unchanged the form of the entire figure, is characteristic of the equiangular spiral, and of no other mathematical curve." Sir D'Arcy Wentworth Thompson in On Growth and Form, 1942 edition
The symmetry is expressed most elegantly in the mathematical description of the spiral.



Asymmetry seems to be the default mechanism on the prison planet due to beta decay or PT symmetry violation.

How is "asymmetry" a mechanism? And why should we think of God's glorious creation as a "prison planet"? Granted, we were bound by sin before Christ came, but He has set us free, has He not?



As I mentioned in 2008 Nobel finally got around to awarding a prize to three physicists for proving matter and anti-matter are asymmetric.

Yes, there is are a few obscure phenomena that apparently are not symmetric. But the siine qua non of the fundamental laws of nature is symmetry. That's how we derive the conservation laws, such as conservation of angular momentum (from rotational symmetry) and the conservation of energy (temoral symmetry).



The history seems symmetrical because we equate divinity with symmetry.
The human body is not symmetrical, the earth is not symmetrical, the asymmetrical heliosphere suggests our solar system is NOT symmetrical.

And there is no "perfect circle" in the physical universe. But that says nothing about the perfect symmetry of the underlying laws of nature that cause planets to be spheroids moving in elliptical orbits. And humans are more symmetrical than not. A well formed humans exhibits bilateral symmetry with minor variations. It certainly does not seem correct to deny the bilateral symmetry because of those imperfections. For example, I am perfectly symmetrical in the general sense that I have two legs and two arms on opposite sides.



Framing the narrative as a symmetry if you are discussing GOD, or a universal balance makes sense.
BUT the FACT is ... on the prison planet ... ASYMMETRY rules the domain down here.
And asymmetry can be defined as a breakdown of symmetry.

My theory is the fall of man, his fall from grace, is just that.
ASYMMETRY is the scientific equivalent of the fall of man.
The beginning of the end.
Being ejected from the perfect world, the garden of eden.

That's very interesting. Symmetry breaking is a fundamental aspect of the understanding we derive from modern physics.

All the best,

Richard

[Raphael]

Hey there Raphael,

I don't know why you think that spirals are not symmetrical.


you need to go beyond how you define symmetry.
a spiral is flat...a helix is spiral in 3 dimensions.
Is the double helix of DNA symmetrical or asymmetrical?

Well?



Here is a snippet:As is well known from biology a relative arrangement of very different sprouts arising in the cones of shoots is characterized by the "spiral symmetry". This arrangement principle was named [I]"phyllotaxis". On the surface of phyllotaxis forms, especially in the closely packed botanic structures (pine cone, pineapple, cactus, head of sunflower etc.), one can see clearly visible left- and right curved series of sprouts. As to the symmetry order of phyllotaxis forms there exists a practice to indicate it through the ratios of the numbers corresponding to the number of the left- and right-hand spirals. In accordance with the law of phyllotaxis such ratios are given by the number sequence generated by the Fibonacci recurrent relationship


I suspect you do NOT understand the basics of asymmetry vs. symmetry.
You posted as proof of your symmetry theory a link that is discussing the Fibonacci series of numbers that is connected intimately to the Golden Spiral.
The golden spiral, any logarithmic spiral is asymmetric.
OKAY?



Yes, there is are a few obscure phenomena that apparently are not symmetric. But the siine qua non of the fundamental laws of nature is symmetry.


WRONG
WRONG
WRONG
The fundamental laws of nature ARE asymmetric.
NOBEL says so.

The Importance of Asymmetry

Luckily for us, the Universe is not symmetrical, at least at the subatomic level. If it was, the newly formed matter at the Universe's birth would have been annihilated by an equal and opposite amount of antimatter, and nothingness would have resulted. Instead, a small imbalance, or asymmetry, in the amount of matter and antimatter created led to a slight excess of matter, from which we are all eventually formed. Such 'broken symmetry' is one key to our existence
http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/2008/speedread.html

WOW...
'broken symmetry' is one of the keys to our existence.



That's how we derive the conservation laws, such as conservation of angular momentum (from rotational symmetry) and the conservation of energy (temoral symmetry).


The current theories re: angular momentum of orbits is challenged by the introduction of binary companions?
The jury is still out on celestial mechanics, these laws are being challenged all the time...
i.e. such as the sun’s lack of angular momentum relative to the planets
http://www.binaryresearchinstitute.org/bri/research/papers/bautforum.shtml



And humans are more symmetrical than not. A well formed humans exhibits bilateral symmetry with minor variations. It certainly does not seem correct to deny the bilateral symmetry because of those imperfections. For example, I am perfectly symmetrical in the general sense that I have two legs and two arms on opposite sides.


Again YOU exhibit ignorance of what asymmetry is.
No offense.
Let me try to inform you.
These two blogs are attempts to illustrate how there is a thread we can follow through the dimensions ... DNA asymmetry = L/R hand asymmetry = swastika rotational asymmetry = matter and anti-matter asymmetry
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/2008/07/03/left-hand-pathuniversal-asymmetryright-hand-path/
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/2009/01/25/asymmetry-a-most-auspicious-theory-of-everthing/



That's very interesting. Symmetry breaking is a fundamental aspect of the understanding we derive from modern physics.

All the best,

Richard

Well if you respect how symmetry breaking is fundamental (i.e. PT violation observed in 1956) then you may respect why I believe that Eve/the rib of Adam represents symmetry breaking.
Adam + Lilith = symmetry (matter and anti-matter annihilate each other)
Adam + Eve = asymmetry (matter is victorious = 2008 Nobel Prize)
The eventual asymmetry between man and woman, between the genders, between the positive and the negative.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Symbols/11258PALMVictoryOverDeathASYMMETRY1.jpg

Note the asymmetry on the Palm.
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/2009/04/08/11258-17-asymmetry-9-8-palm-of-victory/

Also remember TIME, the way physics describes it (i.e. entropy = time's arrow) is asymmetric too.
Would that be important?

namaste

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hey there Raphael! :yo:

I'm really glad you are digging deep into the topic of symmetry and how it relates to physics because those are two of my favorite topics.




I don't know why you think that spirals are not symmetrical.
you need to go beyond how you define symmetry.
a spiral is flat...a helix is spiral in 3 dimensions.
Is the double helix of DNA symmetrical or asymmetrical?

Well?

Dimensionality has nothing to do with symmetry. Objects can be symmetric in an number of dimensions.

If you want me to "go beyond" how I define symmetry, you will need to present a definition for me to consider. As it is, I use the standard definition found in physics and mathematics.

The symmetry of a 3D spiral is very similar to that of a 2D circle. A 2D circle has an infinite degree of symmetry because it remains invariant under an arbitrary rotation. Likewise, a simple 3D spiral is infinitely symmetric because it is invariant under an arbitrary rotation coupled with a translation along its central axis. For example, consider a 3D spiral around the z-axis that makes a full revolution every meter. Now rotate it by angle phi radians and displace it dz=phi/2pi. It's form will remain invariant.




Here is a snippet:

As is well known from biology a relative arrangement of very different sprouts arising in the cones of shoots is characterized by the "spiral symmetry". This arrangement principle was named "phyllotaxis". On the surface of phyllotaxis forms, especially in the closely packed botanic structures (pine cone, pineapple, cactus, head of sunflower etc.), one can see clearly visible left- and right curved series of sprouts. As to the symmetry order of phyllotaxis forms there exists a practice to indicate it through the ratios of the numbers corresponding to the number of the left- and right-hand spirals. In accordance with the law of phyllotaxis such ratios are given by the number sequence generated by the Fibonacci recurrent relationship
I suspect you do NOT understand the basics of asymmetry vs. symmetry.
You posted as proof of your symmetry theory a link that is discussing the Fibonacci series of numbers that is connected intimately to the Golden Spiral.
The golden spiral, any logarithmic spiral is asymmetric.
OKAY?

I think we might be disagreeing about semantics. You appear to be using a colloquial definition of "asymmetric" which recognizes symmetry only if an object remains invariant under rotation and/or reflection. But that is just a special case of the broader mathematical definition which defines any object that remains invariant under any given transformation as symmetric with respect to that transformation.

Case in point: The logarithmic spiral is invariant under a scaling + rotation (much like the scaling + translation explained above). Here is a snippet from Wikipedia's article on scale invariance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale_invariance):
An example of a scale-invariant curve is the logarithmic spiral, a kind of curve that often appears in nature. In polar coordinates (r, θ) the spiral can be written as
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/8/9/f/89facb70a2ce291e2eecb0923ec869e4.png
Allowing for rotations of the curve, it is invariant under all rescalings λ; that is θ(λr) is identical to a rotated version of θ(r).
A simple circle remains invariant under an arbitrary rotation. The logarithmic spiral remains invariant under an arbitrary rotation + scale. They are both highly symmetrical objects.

You can get an excellent introduction to the general idea of symmetry in Symmetry, A Unifying Concept (http://books.google.com/books?id=ITsy4v5DuYwC&pg=PA162&lpg=PA162&dq=logarithmic+spiral+symmetry&source=bl&ots=Q2wQpwczhy&sig=V8ksydaYY7KWLlIrZGU8kcMMX4I&hl=en&ei=dtbISvLGEqLOtAP805yiBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#v=onepage&q=logarithmic%20spiral%20symmetry&f=false) on Google books. It is filled with many images and long discussions about spirals. And here is a snippet (http://www.mrob.com/pub/muency/spiralsymmetry.html)that puts it in a nutshell:
The symmetry of a logarithmic spiral is a combination of rotational symmetry and self-similarity. In the Mandelbrot set, spiral symmetry is seen in nearly all filament tips.
And don't forget the 449 page book published by the World Scientific Publishing Company called Spiral Symmetry (http://www.amazon.com/Spiral-Symmetry-Istvan-Hargittai/dp/9810206151).





Yes, there is are a few obscure phenomena that apparently are not symmetric. But the siine qua non of the fundamental laws of nature is symmetry.

WRONG
WRONG
WRONG
The fundamental laws of nature ARE asymmetric.
NOBEL says so.

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/2008/speedread.html

That's a very interesting article, but it does not support nor justify your triple ALL CAP repetition of the word "WRONG." There is nothing in that article that denies my fundamental point. Let me repeat:
Yes, there is are a few obscure phenomena that apparently are not symmetric. But the sine qua non of the fundamental laws of nature is symmetry. That's how we derive the conservation laws, such as conservation of angular momentum (from rotational symmetry) and the conservation of energy (temoral symmetry).
My point stands. The broken symmetry discovered in the creation of matter/anti-matter does not mean that the fundamental laws are not themselves symmetrical. On the contrary, those laws are defined by symmetry. The mystery is why the symmetry of those laws "spontaneously breaks" during the process of creation.

I think you may have grabbed onto the word "asymmetry" in that article without understanding its meaning in the context of Standard Model. The Standard Model is built on symmetry. Symmetry is its very foundation. That's why the asymmetry is called "broken symmetry." Here is what that article stated:
Luckily for us, the Universe is not symmetrical, at least at the subatomic level. If it was, the newly formed matter at the Universe's birth would have been annihilated by an equal and opposite amount of antimatter, and nothingness would have resulted. Instead, a small imbalance, or asymmetry, in the amount of matter and antimatter created led to a slight excess of matter, from which we are all eventually formed. Such 'broken symmetry' is one key to our existence

Understanding symmetry, or the lack of it, is an ongoing task, and the 2008 Nobel Prize in Physics rewarded two discoveries concerning symmetry violation in the field of particle physics. In the 1960s Yoichiro Nambu, who had been working on asymmetries underlying superconductivity, was the first to model how broken symmetry can occur spontaneously at the subatomic level. The mathematical descriptions he formulated helped refine the standard model of particle physics, the current working theory that best explains much, but not all, of the way that fundamental particles and the forces that govern their behaviour interact to create the known Universe.
Why "broken symmetry"? Because the Standard Model is defined by symmetry groups! The "breaking" of the symmetry has to do with the states of the system, not the system itself. You can read about it here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_symmetry_breaking).

Thanks again for introducing this fascinating topic!

All the best,

Richard

[Raphael]

Because the Standard Model is defined by symmetry groups!
Thanks again for introducing this fascinating topic!

All the best,

Richard

hello Richard, you are welcome
the standard model was turned on its head in 1956, turned upside down, with the observation of symmetry breakdown.

and NO official current standard model ever replaced the one proved wrong.
there has not been a standard model since 1956...
all efforts since 1956, have been to plug the hole in the dyke, and to understand asymmetry.
end of story regarding 'standard models'
IMHO that is why science experts seem kinda lost in space these days, as they try to fill their mathematical space vacuum with BS formulas.

Let me ask you a question.
Are your Left and Right hands symmetrical or asymmetrical?
Would a discussion of asymmetry and symmetry in biological systems lend itself to discussing chiral vs. achiral?
Is it a coincidence that the following are ALL chiral and asymmetric?

DNA (very old)
amino acids
carbohydrates
L/R hands (as old as humanity)
CW and CCW swastikas (10,000+ years old)

Are you familiar with Stan Tenen and the Meru Foundation and his work linking hands >> mind >> Hebrew alphabet/language?
I found this an interesting read...
http://www.meru.org/3220lecture/asymspir.html

And this an interesting video series.
Dance of the Hebrew Letters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5QszivjfTI

Why is the right hand mentioned so many more times in the bible than the left?
Right Hand Rules are used in physics and noted as dominant in the bible?

namaste

[Richard Amiel McGough]

hello Richard, you are welcome
the standard model was turned on its head in 1956, turned upside down, with the observation of symmetry breakdown.

an NO official current standard model ever replaced the one proved wrong.
there has not been one since 1956...all efforts have been since 1956 to understand asymmetry.
end of story regarding 'standard models'
IMHO
that is why science experts seem kinda lost in space these days, as they try to fill their vacuum with BS formulas.

Hey there Raphael,

That's some important news you got there. Maybe you should notify the scientists at CERN - they are under the gross delusion that the Standard Model was developed in the 1970s and has been "established as a well-tested physics theory." Here is a snippet (http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/Science/StandardModel-en.html) from their official site:
The theories and discoveries of thousands of physicists over the past century have resulted in a remarkable insight into the fundamental structure of matter: everything in the Universe is found to be made from twelve basic building blocks called fundamental particles, governed by four fundamental forces. Our best understanding of how these twelve particles and three of the forces are related to each other is encapsulated in the Standard Model of particles and forces. Developed in the early 1970s, it has successfully explained a host of experimental results and precisely predicted a wide variety of phenomena. Over time and through many experiments by many physicists, the Standard Model has become established as a well-tested physics theory.
So what about the explanation of the symmetry of a helix and spiral that I gave in my last post? Do you agree? If not, why not?



let me ask you a question.
are your Left and Right hands symmetrical or asymmetrical?

Except for the scar on my right thumb and other minor variations, they are symmetrical under reflection. Do you disagree with this? Is it not the definition of symmetry?



are you familiar with Stan Tenen and the Meru Foundation and his work linking hands >> mind >> language?
I found this an interesting read...
http://www.meru.org/3220lecture/asymspir.html

namaste
Yes, I talked with Stan back in the 90s. Interesting guy. He's done some fascinating work but I haven't reviewed it lately.

Richard

[Raphael]

Hey there Raphael,

That's some important news you got there. Maybe you should notify the scientists at CERN


here is some more important news RAM:

In contrast to annihilation, energetic force-carrier particles can give rise to matter particle/antiparticle pairs (pair production). An unsolved mystery of cosmology is why the universe is dominated by matter rather than antimatter.

So why more matter than anti-matter...why the ASYMMETRY?

Those self-serving egotistical CERN wankers want to spend 8+ billion dollars of global resources building time tunnels and worm holes...they grew up on too much star trek and not enough world vision, their vision of privilege is galactic NOT terrestrial.

beam me up scotty... :thumb: get me outta here, we really fooked up the joint.

the fellas running CERN at the top levels are either kabbalists, freemasons or zionists ...
Why else does CERN follow the architecture of sacred geometry?
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/2008/09/14/cern-and-the-fine-structure-constant-137/
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/category/cern-bab-ilu-and-the-gate-of-god/

Can you tell me whose idea CERN was?
Who was the brainchild behind CERN?
Want a clue?
The Van Allen Belts should have been named after this unnamed fella who died in 1972.
:winking0071:



they are under the gross delusion that the Standard Model was developed in the 1970s and has been "established as a well-tested physics theory."


geesh, your logic has left the building Richard.
what are they going to say...give us 8 billion dollars for an idea that may not fly?
any idea how many folks/egos are currently in line challenging the current standard model that you/CERN claim exists?


Every high energy physics experiment carried out since the mid-20th century has eventually yielded findings consistent with the Standard Model. Still, the Standard Model falls short of being a complete theory of fundamental interactions
because it does not include gravitation, dark matter, or dark energy. It is not quite a complete description of leptons either, because it does not describe nonzero neutrino masses, although simple natural extensions do.


the Standard Model falls short of being a complete theory of fundamental interactions



Developed in the early 1970s, it has successfully explained a host of experimental results and precisely predicted a wide variety of phenomena. Over time and through many experiments by many physicists, the Standard Model has become established as a well-tested physics theory.


Bullshit...CERN has their standard model...but it is NOT standard.
do your homework Richard.

Standard model falls waaaaaaaaaaaaaay short.
I would be conCERNed about those LIGHT magicians Richard.
They are playing with fire.



[/INDENT]So what about the explanation of the symmetry of a helix and spiral that I gave in my last post? Do you agree? If not, why not?


do your homework Richard...



Except for the scar on my right thumb and other minor variations, they are symmetrical under reflection. Do you disagree with this? Is it not the definition of symmetry?


Symmetry can be defined in many ways.
Reflection and rotational.
It all depends on the axis you chose to exploit.

The human body is NOT symmetrical.
I agree it has bilateral symmetry...but that implies an asymmetry or difference between front and back.
If we were perfectly symmetrical (we are not) then we would have two heads like the Roman god Janus. :pop2:
The human face is ASYMMETRICAL too Richard.
The fact is...the RIGHT hemisphere of our brains are very good at reading asymmetric facial expressions, an interpretive tool that heralds from the pre-literate epochs, a form of communication that actually assist folks in telling whether people are lying.

Right Hand dominance, asymmetric facial expressions, Hebrew language, (Hebrew letters according to Stan the man are key)
Judaism and the MOON.
Go back and look at those images of the MOON and the sacred geometry re: CERN.

http://chem8.org/bbs/download/picup/soft20080911_182918_3339.jpg

Why don't you spend $60 on this book dude?
To help you with your homework on chirality and universal asymmetry.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=TrQwdNh5q6YC&dq=chirality+and+universal+asymmetry&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=x4DLStTSIsewlAf30qjgBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false



Yes, I talked with Stan back in the 90s. Interesting guy. He's done some fascinating work but I haven't reviewed it lately.

Richard

good
go back and read what Stan says about searching for the perfect asymmetrical spiral.
I posted the link.

heaven
atlantis
jerusalem
the promised land
perfect symmetry
perfect world
these are the carrots we reach for...

We are stuck in an imperfect world ruled by asymmetry.
ALL the BUILDING BLOCKS are described as asymmetric Richard.

That is why masons concern themselves with building blocks.
That is why the letter 'L' is the builder's glyph.
That is why you could use an L and it mirror image as symbols to denote polarity.
That is why 4 x L = swastika
That is why the swastika, your L/R hands, your brain and the heliosphere of our solar system are ALL considered asymmetric.

Trying to find a symmetrical theory of everything is like trying to define god, and again let me point out that Jewish history might appear symmetrical because the goal is to achieve perfection or symmetry.
Why else preach and kill each other for aeons?
The stakes are high.

namaste

[alec cotton]

Hello Richard. I am thoroughly enjoying this. I don't want to appear to belittle your intelligence which is obviously a million times greater than mine.
But have you noticed that the seventh number in the sequence is a multiple of seven?.
Alec

[Raphael]

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/67moses.gif
even the 10 commandments were asymmetric.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Asymmetric_%28PSF%29.png/180px-Asymmetric_%28PSF%29.png

This site may help you understand my position, how I am defining asymmetry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetry


Baryon asymmetry of the universe
Main article: baryogenesis

The baryons (i.e., the protons and neutrons and the atoms that they comprise) observed in the universe are overwhelmingly matter as opposed to anti-matter. This asymmetry is called the baryon asymmetry of the universe.

In collider experiments

Because the weak interactions violate parity, collider processes that can involve the weak interactions typically exhibit asymmetries in the distributions of the final-state particles. These asymmetries are typically sensitive to the difference in the interaction between particles and antiparticles, or between left-handed and right-handed particles. They can thus be used as a sensitive measurement of differences in interaction strength and/or to distinguish a small asymmetric signal from a large but symmetric background.

* A forward-backward asymmetry is defined as AFB=(NF-NB)/(NF+NB), where NF is the number of events in which some particular final-state particle is moving "forward" with respect to some chosen direction (e.g., a final-state electron moving in the same direction as the initial-state electron beam in electron-positron collisions), while NB is the number of events with the final-state particle moving "backward". Forward-backward asymmetries were used by the LEP experiments to measure the difference in the interaction strength of the Z boson between left-handed and right-handed fermions, which provides a precision measurement of the weak mixing angle.
* A left-right asymmetry is defined as ALR=(NL-NR)/(NL+NR), where NL is the number of events in which some initial- or final-state particle is left-polarized, while NR is the corresponding number of right-polarized events. Left-right asymmetries in Z boson production and decay were measured at the Stanford Linear Collider using the event rates obtained with left-polarized versus right-polarized initial electron beams. Left-right asymmetries can also be defined as asymmetries in the polarization of final-state particles whose polarizations can be measured; e.g., tau leptons.
* A charge asymmetry or particle-antiparticle asymmetry is defined in a similar way. This type of asymmetry has been used to constrain the parton distribution functions of protons at the Tevatron from events in which a produced W boson decays to a charged lepton. The asymmetry between positively and negatively charged leptons as a function of the direction of the W boson relative to the proton beam provides information on the relative distributions of up and down quarks in the proton. Particle-antiparticle asymmetries are also used to extract measurements of CP violation from B meson and anti-B meson production at the BaBar and Belle experiments.


Does that make my position any clearer?
Facial symmetry vs asymmetry...
Facial symmetry is neither the only trait nor is it necessarily the most important trait of what a culture considers attractive.
A competing aesthetic theory is wabi sabi.


Wabi-sabi (侘寂?) represents a comprehensive Japanese world view or aesthetic centered on the acceptance of transience. The phrase comes from the two words wabi and sabi. The aesthetic is sometimes described as one of beauty that is "imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete" (according to Leonard Koren in his book Wabi-Sabi: for Artists, Designers, Poets and Philosophers). It is a concept derived from the Buddhist assertion of the Three marks of existence (三法印, sanbōin?), specifically impermanence (無常, mujō?). Note also that the Japanese word for rust, 錆 is also pronounced sabi (the borrowed Chinese character is different, but the word itself is of assumed common etymology), and there is an obvious semantic connection between these concepts.[citation needed]

Characteristics of the wabi-sabi aesthetic include asymmetry, asperity, simplicity, modesty, intimacy, and the suggestion of natural processes.

The suggestion of an acceptance of natural processes...

The litigatous western mind thinks it can fix the world.
The more cultured, elder Buddhist or Hindu says 'shit happens'.
And once you start to see the archetypal patterns, you realize that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

namaste

Raphael

[Richard Amiel McGough]

here is some more important news RAM:

In contrast to annihilation, energetic force-carrier particles can give rise to matter particle/antiparticle pairs (pair production). An unsolved mystery of cosmology is why the universe is dominated by matter rather than antimatter.So why more matter than anti-matter...why the ASYMMETRY?

Hey there Raphael,

That's a very interesting and important question. But it does not refute anything I have written in previous posts. And since no one has an answer to that question, I don't see why you get so worked up over it.



Those self-serving egotistical CERN wankers want to spend 8+ billion dollars of global resources building time tunnels and worm holes...they grew up on too much star trek and not enough world vision, their vision of privilege is galactic NOT terrestrial.

beam me up scotty... :thumb: get me outta here, we really fooked up the joint.

the fellas running CERN at the top levels are either kabbalists, freemasons or zionists ...
Why else does CERN follow the architecture of sacred geometry?
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/2008/09/14/cern-and-the-fine-structure-constant-137/
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/category/cern-bab-ilu-and-the-gate-of-god/

That's not really a topic I feel inclined to pursue. Your accusations against CERN seem rather biased and emotionally charged.



the Standard Model falls short of being a complete theory of fundamental interactions

Yes, the Standard Model is not complete. So what? I never said it was complete.



Bullshit...CERN has their standard model...but it is NOT standard.
do your homework Richard.

:stop: Please watch your language ... and you attitude.

We are interested in mutually respectful discussions here.




So what about the explanation of the symmetry of a helix and spiral that I gave in my last post? Do you agree? If not, why not?
do your homework Richard...

I did my homework and you did not respond. Why not? Do you or do you not agree with what I wrote, and if not, why not? Your response did not address the points I wrote and besides that, it was rude. :mad:

Do you enjoy being rude to people? Is that why you are here? To say "agree with me or I will insult you!"? I hope not - I imagine we could have some very good conversations if you would attempt to treat others the way you would wish to be treated.




Except for the scar on my right thumb and other minor variations, they are symmetrical under reflection. Do you disagree with this? Is it not the definition of symmetry?
Symmetry can be defined in many ways.
Reflection and rotational.
It all depends on the axis you chose to exploit.

The human body is NOT symmetrical.
I agree it has bilateral symmetry...but that implies an asymmetry or difference between front and back.
If we were perfectly symmetrical (we are not) then we would have two heads like the Roman god Janus. :pop2:

Yes, there is an asymmetry between front and back. I never disputed that. A sphere is the only 3D shape that is the same when viewed from any direction. I never said that everything is a sphere which seems to be what you are disputing.



The human face is ASYMMETRICAL too Richard.
The fact is...the RIGHT hemisphere of our brains are very good at reading asymmetric facial expressions, an interpretive tool that heralds from the pre-literate epochs, a form of communication that actually assist folks in telling whether people are lying.

Yes, the asymmetry in brain function is well known. But what does that have to do with our conversation? I never denied that there is asymmetry in the world.




good
go back and read what Stan says about searching for the perfect asymmetrical spiral.
I posted the link.

heaven
atlantis
jerusalem
the promised land
perfect symmetry
perfect world
these are the carrots we reach for...

We are stuck in an imperfect world ruled by asymmetry.
ALL the BUILDING BLOCKS are described as asymmetric Richard.

That is why masons concern themselves with building blocks.
That is why the letter 'L' is the builder's glyph.
That is why you could use an L and it mirror image as symbols to denote polarity.
That is why 4 x L = swastika
That is why the swastika, your L/R hands, your brain and the heliosphere of our solar system are ALL considered asymmetric.

Trying to find a symmetrical theory of everything is like trying to define god, and again let me point out that Jewish history might appear symmetrical because the goal is to achieve perfection or symmetry.
Why else preach and kill each other for aeons?
The stakes are high.

namaste
It looks like you have built an entire philosophy and worldview on the idea of asymmetry. I would like to discuss it with you more if you could just talk to me with some mutual respect and fewer emotional outbursts. Sound like a plan? :anim_32:

So what is the primary message you are trying to communicate? Can you state your thesis in just a few lines? That might be a good place to start.

All the best,

Richard

[Raphael]

Hey there Raphael,


Can you state your thesis in just a few lines? That might be a good place to start.

All the best,

Richard

probably not.
it obviously runs counter to your theory.
what is the point, if you do not read those CERN links and then dismiss it as being biased and emotionally charged ... :thumb:

If you fail to see the importance of ALL the building blocks of life being asymmetrical from the smallest to the biggest (i.e. from invisible matter/anti-matter >> macrocosmic spinning galaxies)...what is the point in continuing this discussion?

You have too much invested in your theory dude, as I have in mine.
I agree symmetry is very important.
But asymmetry veils :winking0071: the symmetry.
Asymmetry veils 'god'.

Go read those CERN links...I do find how they chose to lay out the 27 km. track illuminating.
Far far too coincidental.
It is design.

namaste

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hey there Raphael,


Can you state your thesis in just a few lines? That might be a good place to start.

All the best,

Richard

probably not.
it obviously runs counter to your theory.

What theory are you talking about? I have not been talking with you about any theories of mine. I've only been talking about physics and math.



what is the point, if you do not read those CERN links and then dismiss it as being biased and emotionally charged ... :thumb:

Well, I agree that there's not much I feel like talking about if your theory is that "Those self-serving egotistical CERN wankers ... grew up on too much star trek" and "the fellas running CERN at the top levels are either kabbalists, freemasons or zionists ..."

Indeed ... what's the point of that?



If you fail to see the importance of ALL the building blocks of life being asymmetrical from the smallest to the biggest (i.e. from invisible matter/anti-matter >> macrocosmic spinning galaxies)...what is the point in continuing this discussion?

The point of the discussion is to see if we can articulate the truth. The right/left asymmetry of the biological molecules is very significant. I've never disputed that because that's not what we've been talking about. We've been talking about the definition of symmetry and I gave solid answers that any physicist or mathematician would agree with. But you don't agree and you haven't explained why not by showing any errors in the statements that I made. And that is probably why you feel frustrated. You are not properly engaging me in discourse. You have ignored a lot of the explanations I have given.

Why are you so emotionally charged about the question of symmetry and asymmetry? Why can't we just have a conversation about these things?

:talk002:




You have too much invested in your theory dude, as I have in mine.
I agree symmetry is very important.
But asymmetry veils :winking0071: the symmetry.
Asymmetry veils 'god'.

What do you know about "my therory" or how much I have invested? We have not been discussing anything about "my theory." And besides, it's both false and rude to suggest that I am closed minded on this topic. Do you have any evidence that I am closed minded?

As for asymmetry veiling God (why the small g?) - that could be an interesting topic.



Go read those CERN links...I do find how they chose to lay out the 27 km. track illuminating.
Far far too coincidental.
It is design.

namaste
I'll check them out as time permits.

All the best to you,

Richard

[Raphael]

The point of the discussion is to see if we can articulate the truth.


I have been trying to articulate a truth.
Not an easy thing to accomplish.
Waste of time really.
We know so little of each other.
Your foundation could be lacking some critical blocks of wisdom necessary to support my ideas that are lacking a refined 'delivery' system.



The right/left asymmetry of the biological molecules is very significant.


but this comment by you shows that maybe you are catching up to my way of thinking.
would that be so bad?
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/2008/07/03/left-hand-pathuniversal-asymmetryright-hand-path/



I've never disputed that because that's not what we've been talking about.
All the best to you,

Richard

Maybe you have not been ... but I have been trying to impress on you its paramount role in NATURE.
See the problem with the telephone game which has evolved into the forum game?

You don't seem to understand the importance of asymmetry NOT only in biological systems...but also in chemistry, and physics, and relating to TIME's arrow aka entropy and and and ...

In 1956 asymmetry (breakdown of symmetry that can be traced to events that are billions of years old, turned the physics world which had been focused on symmetry/parity for 50 years, upside down.
GET IT!!!!

I have discussed enough about asymmetry with you.
I have provided many links that you do not click on...duh why bother?
duh why bother brother?

bask in your own blah blah blah...and I will bask in mine.
Thanks for trying to follow along.
Anything posted till now by me on this topic ... will be for the benefit of those who 'see'...for those who do CLICK on those links.
For the rest of the folks wandering through...

As ewe were.

namaste

Raphael

[Raphael]

RAM I came across this today as I continue to gather the evidence regarding the importance of asymmetry to understanding the matrix.
I really am a pioneer dude.
Not many are focused as I am on this important unsolved riddle.

My evidence shows my focus is STRONG and yours is WEAK.
It should conCERN you, as I have already mentioned...

how poetic, the universe will speak to you, if you listen.
Maybe you should go back and read my links re: CERN.


here is a fact that CERN relies on:
Strong focusing due to asymmetric magnetic fields can achieve much narrower focusing...

WEAK focus:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weak_focusing

STRONG focus:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_focusing
:yo:

namaste

[Rose]

RAM I came across this today as I continue to gather the evidence regarding the importance of asymmetry to understanding the matrix.
I really am a pioneer dude.
Not many are focused as I am on this important unsolved riddle.

My evidence shows my focus is STRONG and yours is WEAK.
It should conCERN you, as I have already mentioned...

how poetic, the universe will speak to you, if you listen.
Maybe you should go back and read my links re: CERN.



WEAK focus:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weak_focusing

STRONG focus:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_focusing
:yo:

namaste

Hey Namaste,

I've noticed a thread of sarcasm running through all your posts, and it makes me wonder why you feel the need to always put others down...:confused: Usually people receive what you have to say much better if you treat them with kindness :hug: instead of always jabbing them with your words...:fencing: You can still disagree with others, :no: but in a more agreeable way... :talk040:


Rose

[Raphael]

Hey Namaste,

I've noticed a thread of sarcasm running through all your posts, and it makes me wonder why you feel the need to always put others down...:confused: Usually people receive what you have to say much better if you treat them with kindness :hug: instead of always jabbing them with your words...:fencing: You can still disagree with others, :no: but in a more agreeable way... :talk040:


Rose

was that a jab rose or a prick?
a thorn delivered into my side?

get closer centurionie...may my blood heal your blindness.

I make no apologies for my contempt...I am working on it.
One day I shall be perfect again.

RAM and me do not need a third party preacher preaching from the forum pulpit.
:talk040:
At least I don't.
And I much prefer to be reprimanded by pm....instead of the usual methods employed.
attack the messenger...the truth is always considered soooo bitter anyway.
Ain't that the truth?

Did you learn anything by reading my posts or the links provided?
You can move on...or contribute to the topic at hand...symmetry and asymmetry.

Where are your forum manners, your response was the usual droll troll remark made by those who get bad vibes reading my threads?
Get a hold of yourself.

namaste

[Craig.Paardekooper]

Instances of asymmetry in nature are more than just a breakdown of symmetry - they are orderly in their own right. The double helix pair bonds ensure that one side of the helix reflects the other side in both form and content. Infact that is how the genetic code copies itself - by one side being a perfect reflection of the other........

There is a simple symmetry in many natural instances.

Atleast we understand the concept of symmetry. Given that, it is interesting to find a pattern emerging in Jewish history. Perhaps it is an illusion, but the pattern appears to be there, and the Bible hints at it when God made the Gentile captivity reflect the Egyptian one.

The laws of physics are interesting and worthy of discussion, but my argument is far simpler.

[Craig.Paardekooper]

May I ask what does Eulers Number signify. I few years back Vernon Jenkins and I discovered two numbers encoded in Genesis 1 v 1 and in John 1 v 1.

In Genesis 1v1 we found pi
In John 1 v 1 we found e

Pi relates to the circle, and symmetry
e seems to relate to something to do with growth.

There is a meaning here that may cast light on the symmetry/asymmetry debate.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

May I ask what does Eulers Number signify. I few years back Vernon Jenkins and I discovered two numbers encoded in Genesis 1 v 1 and in John 1 v 1.

In Genesis 1v1 we found pi
In John 1 v 1 we found e

Pi relates to the circle, and symmetry
e seems to relate to something to do with growth.

There is a meaning here that may cast light on the symmetry/asymmetry debate.
Hi Craig,

I didn't know you were part of that discovery. Very interesting. How did it happen?

I was never very impressed with those calculations because I didn't see how they related to anything else in the text or how they might lead to any new insights. So they seemed rather like "curiosities." But your question reminded me of Euler's relation which is, perhaps, the most beautiful and profound equation ever written:

http://www.biblewheel.com/images/eulers_identity.png

Here we have an equation that shows how these two numbers relate to unity, and that reminds me of the many levels of unity we have in the alphanumeric text of Genesis 1:1-5 with the text of John 1:1-5. For example, here is one piece that is based on the holographic generating set:

A = 27
B = 37
C = 73

Genesis 1:1 = 2701 = BC

John 1:1 = 3627 = 3700 - 73 = 100B - C

So

Genesis 1:1 + AB = John 1:1 + C

As for the meaning of e - it is the base of the natural logarithm and is used everywhere in calculus. Books have been written about it.

[Craig.Paardekooper]

I didn't know you were part of that discovery. Very interesting. How did it happen?

How did it happen?

Well, I was very impressed with Vernon's work and decided to explore a bit further. I found that by multiplying the numerical value of each LETTER in Genesis 1v1 we obtain 23887872.

Now, recall that the Bible ends with the book of Revelation where the New Jerusalem is depicted as a cube of side 12.

It so happens that in Genesis 1 v1 we have -

23887872 = 288 x 288 x 288
23887872 = 12 cubed x 12 cubed x 2 cubed

Rather an odd coincidence I think.

.................................................. ..............................................
Next, Vernon had found that by multiplying the word values for each WORD in Genesis 1 you get -

304,153,525,783,175,760 x 10^16

And he had also found that 304 + 153 + 525 + 783 + 175 + 760 = 37 x 73


Anyway, all this was just too coincidental. It felt like I was staring at something amazing that I couldn't quite grasp. One Christmas I sat down pondering over this - then I found that

304,153,525,784,760 / 23887872 = 1.2732

Now 1: 1.2732 is the ratio of a circle to a surrounding square - a squared circle or 4/pi

In Genesis 1 v 1 the creation of the Heavens and the Earth was depicted as a giant cube of side 288. There now seems to be a circle within this cube

Some time beforehand I had found that the Earth-Moon system seemed to follow a similar realtionship - viz -

Ratio of spin 1 Moon day = 27.32 Earth days
Ratio of size 1 Moon Diameter = 27.27 Earth diameters

It is interesting that when pi is taken as 22/7 then 4/pi = 1.2727

From the Earth, the Sun appears the same size as the moon and also spins on it's axis such that one Sun Day = 27.272 Earth days

When the Bible speaks of the Heavens it is referring primarily to the Moon and the Sun. It is therefore curious that Genesis 1 v 1 comes to 1.2732

1.2732 = 1 (Earth) + 2732 (Sun/Moon)


What Vernon found was that when the same logic pattern was applied to John 1 v 1 it yielded Euler's number

I shall write a bit more about this, since something has just become apparent to me.

[Craig.Paardekooper]

The pattern reiterates the 3 pairs + 1 central unpaired element structure that we find so often in Scripture, like in the design of the Menorah, the Seven Days of Creation, the gates in Temple of Ezekiel and the Seven Canonical Divisions of the Bible.

This 3 + 1 structure reflects the organization of the Gospels (Synoptics + John) and this fourfoldness is delineated in Scripture in Ezekiel on Spoke 4 of the Bible Wheel, when he recieves the prophecy concerning the 390 + 40 years.



Thanks very much Victor, for this observation about the 3 + 1 structure in Scripture.

http://www.biblewheel.com/topics/SevenfoldLight.asp

Thanks very much for pointing this out.

[Victor]

Hi Craig,

Indeed! This pattern runs everywhere in Scripture. I'll post at your new thread The Menorah Pattern in Jewish History (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1724) when I get a chance.

Victor

[Raphael]

Thanks very much Victor, for this observation about the 3 + 1 structure in Scripture.

http://www.biblewheel.com/topics/SevenfoldLight.asp

Thanks very much for pointing this out.

Yes thanks another confirmation.
Folks on this site are keying in on the same clues as others.

Jung called the 3+1 the quinta essentia which is equal to the Philosopher's Stone.

I have been gathering up a bunch of 3+1 archetypes from different disciplines to help me understand the concept better...how to go from CARD X of the Tarot to Feynman’s hypothesis that matter comes in all 4 forms to Lorentz Transformations to Sylvester Jim Gates musings about Adinkras. :yo:

http://at37.wordpress.com/2012/02/05/wheel-of-fortune-card-x-the-quinta-essentia/

327328

namaste

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Yes thanks another confirmation.
Folks on this site are keying in on the same clues as others.

Jung called the 3+1 the quinta essentia which is equal to the Philosopher's Stone.

I have been gathering up a bunch of 3+1 archetypes from different disciplines to help me understand the concept better...how to go from CARD X of the Tarot to Feynman’s hypothesis that matter comes in all 4 forms to Lorentz Transformations to Sylvester Jim Gates musings about Adinkras. :yo:

http://at37.wordpress.com/2012/02/05/wheel-of-fortune-card-x-the-quinta-essentia/

327328

namaste
Yeah, the 3 + 1 pattern is found in many places and seems very significant.

Can you remind me why you wrote the blue numbers 11, 8, 5 and 2 over the four cherubim on the Tarot card?

[Raphael]

Yeah, the 3 + 1 pattern is found in many places and seems very significant.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/MezinUkraine10000BCswastika-1.jpg

The oldest swastika on record is a 3 + 1 configuration.
Do you see it?
The top left swirl looks like it has been rotated 90 degrees relative to the other three. Best to imagine the spirals as a number 5, then you can see it.



Can you remind me why you wrote the blue numbers 11, 8, 5 and 2 over the four cherubim on the Tarot card?

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/AstroWheel.jpg

IF you believe that the zodiac plays a role in trying to figure out the mysteries of life, those numbers are significant.

It is based on Aries beginning at 0 degrees on a 360 degree bIbLE Wheel.
It is a position established long ago, the order of the zodiac wheel.

Aries 1, Taurus 2, Gemini 3, Cancer 4, .... Aquarius 11, Pisces 12,

Thus the numbers 2, 5, 8, 11, and the Bull, the Lion, the Eagle, and the Man match up with the 4 Evangelists.
http://at37.wordpress.com/2012/02/29/card-x-the-man-the-eagle-the-lion-and-the-ox/

What I offer is such a simple course in miracles, but grown-ups gotta let go and be like a child again.
It is true.
I can prove it Richard...my journey began....

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/greekcrosszodiaccross.jpghttp://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/PrecessionStep3-1.jpg

...just by innocently joining some dots one day, counting backwards as in precession of the equinoxes (starting in the age of Taurus), after falling into this hole my life took a turn for the better, before I knew it I had put myself on the same page as Aleister Crowley's musings and Richard Feynman, I appear to be right in the middle.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/greekzodiaccrosswithserpent300px.jpghttp://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/061215122349-1.jpghttp://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Alchemy/StBrigidL-1.jpg

Aleister Crowley's serpent biting its tail and Solomon's Knot which has at it's heART the Hakenkreuz or swastika...
Do you see the 4 hooks?
But the most important thing is to notice the 'offset' cross at the center, like we see in St. Brigid's cross next to it.
Because that is the SEED pattern!
:yo: http://at37.wordpress.com/2012/02/23/windmills-swastikas-seeds/

http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Chinese_pythagoras.jpg/300px-Chinese_pythagoras.jpghttp://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Codex4/4%20AGES%20Models%20DNA/chase-bank-swastika-logo-hidden-logo-666-secret-logo-nazi-logo-nazi-hidden-1.jpg

SEED pattern was used as a solution for the Pythagorean theorem in China perhaps before the Pi guy was even alive?

And what application do we have for Solomon's Knots at the MOLECULAR level?
Chemists Make Molecular Rings in Shape of King Solomon's Knot
http://www.physorg.com/news87669806.html

Some folks discuss the two primary forces as being PUSH and PULL.
Would a HOOK be used if PULLING?

Richard I made a claim a few years ago that the big AHA, the twist at the end of the tale is that we find out that the swastika is ONE of the best mediators we have between science and religion.
I shall continue to wait for science to catch up, and religions to remember.
You heard it here first...after String Theory...there will be a KNOT Theory. :winking0071:

I have 12,000+ years of good luck on my side, and god heals (raphael) our DNA using the swastika too.

Richard IF the swastika has geometric advantages over other shapes, what role does it play in the transcription of DNA which in fact employs geometry when replicating.
Also remember those 'light mills' are used in the manipulation, can be used to unwind the helix of our DNA too!

From Pythagoras to windmills, to solar panels, to light mills, to how a vortex flows, to the double helix of our DNA, the swastika is here to stay in a big way.
No wonder the Polynesians called the navigation tool 'the mattang' a survival tool bequeathed to them by their ancestors unknown.

http://www.edunetconnect.com/cat/timemachine/images/mattang.gifhttp://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/knightstemplarmagicsquareaeon.jpghttp://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/KnightsTemplarmattang.jpg

The Templar cross within the Sator Square is made by joining the letters A-E-O-N four times.
4 AEONS or 4 AGES

This could be important to know:
Geometrically, the swastika can be regarded as an irregular icosagon or 20-sided polygon. The arms are of varying width and are often rectilinear (but need not be). Only in modern use are the exact proportions considered important: for example, the proportions of the Nazi swastika were based on a 5x5 grid.
http://www.crystalinks.com/swastika.html

5x5 Rotas Sator Square?

http://i884.photobucket.com/albums/ac43/MihrYazd/HermeticModel4.jpg

Feel free to visit the facebook page SSS Sacred Swastika Science
https://www.facebook.com/pages/SSS-Sacred-Swastika-Science/320420841301320

namaste

[duxrow]

BABY - Genesis was the infant stage: "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law". Rom5:13

CHILDREN - Even the octegenarians among the Hebrews were called "children of Israel"..

ADULT - "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive" Eph4:14

335 :yo:

[Richard Amiel McGough]

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/MezinUkraine10000BCswastika-1.jpg

The oldest swastika on record is a 3 + 1 configuration.
Do you see it?
The top left swirl looks like it has been rotated 90 degrees relative to the other three. Best to imagine the spirals as a number 5, then you can see it.

No, I can't see it because there is no consistent pattern in the swirls. Each swirl has a double line section that forms no consistent pattern. Here it is expanded for clarity:

336

I colored the double lines and the lines from which they extend. They form F patterns. They are all different.

337




Can you remind me why you wrote the blue numbers 11, 8, 5 and 2 over the four cherubim on the Tarot card?

IF you believe that the zodiac plays a role in trying to figure out the mysteries of life, those numbers are significant.

It is based on Aries beginning at 0 degrees on a 360 degree bIbLE Wheel.
It is a position established long ago, the order of the zodiac wheel.

Aries 1, Taurus 2, Gemini 3, Cancer 4, .... Aquarius 11, Pisces 12,

Thus the numbers 2, 5, 8, 11, and the Bull, the Lion, the Eagle, and the Man match up with the 4 Evangelists.
http://at37.wordpress.com/2012/02/29/card-x-the-man-the-eagle-the-lion-and-the-ox/


Thanks - that makes perfect sense.



What I offer is such a simple course in miracles, but grown-ups gotta let go and be like a child again.
It is true.
I can prove it Richard...my journey began....

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/greekcrosszodiaccross.jpghttp://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/PrecessionStep3-1.jpg

...just by innocently joining some dots one day, counting backwards as in precession of the equinoxes (starting in the age of Taurus), after falling into this hole my life took a turn for the better, before I knew it I had put myself on the same page as Aleister Crowley's musings and Richard Feynman, I appear to be right in the middle.

Why do you mention a physicist like Richard Feynman? You seem to be working with symbolic systems like astrology and Tarot that have nothing to do with physics. If you have a "theory of everything" shouldn't you be able to explain and predict physical phenomena like gravity and electromagnetism?



Aleister Crowley's serpent biting its tail and Solomon's Knot which has at it's heART the Hakenkreuz or swastika...
Do you see the 4 hooks?
But the most important thing is to notice the 'offset' cross at the center, like we see in St. Brigid's cross next to it.
Because that is the SEED pattern!
:yo: http://at37.wordpress.com/2012/02/23/windmills-swastikas-seeds/

http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Chinese_pythagoras.jpg/300px-Chinese_pythagoras.jpghttp://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Codex4/4%20AGES%20Models%20DNA/chase-bank-swastika-logo-hidden-logo-666-secret-logo-nazi-logo-nazi-hidden-1.jpg

SEED pattern was used as a solution for the Pythagorean theorem in China perhaps before the Pi guy was even alive?

I used that pattern to derive the Pythagorean theorem in the seventh grade. It's a very easy and intuitive solution. Take a square, cut it up into four triangles with a small square in the middle, mark all the edges with A, B, C, and calculate the area using the formulas for the area of a square = C2 and a triangle = 1/2AB and BINGO! Out pops the theorem.



Richard I made a claim a few years ago that the big AHA, the twist at the end of the tale is that we find out that the swastika is ONE of the best mediators we have between science and religion.
I shall continue to wait for science to catch up, and religions to remember.
You heard it here first...after String Theory...there will be a KNOT Theory. :winking0071:

That's cool ... I can see it as a powerful symbol. But I still have any idea of what your thesis really is. Could you put it in words for me? It seems similar to the Yin/Yang which is another powerful symbol with profound philosophical and physical significance since the interplay of dualities play a central role in everything.



I have 12,000+ years of good luck on my side, and god heals (raphael) our DNA using the swastika too.

God? What do you mean by that term?



Richard IF the swastika has geometric advantages over other shapes, what role does it play in the transcription of DNA which in fact employs geometry when replicating.
Also remember those 'light mills' are used in the manipulation, can be used to unwind the helix of our DNA too!

From Pythagoras to windmills, to solar panels, to light mills, to how a vortex flows, to the double helix of our DNA, the swastika is here to stay in a big way.
No wonder the Polynesians called the navigation tool 'the mattang' a survival tool bequeathed to them by their ancestors unknown.

http://www.edunetconnect.com/cat/timemachine/images/mattang.gifhttp://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/knightstemplarmagicsquareaeon.jpghttp://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/KnightsTemplarmattang.jpg

The Templar cross within the Sator Square is made by joining the letters A-E-O-N four times.
4 AEONS or 4 AGES

I have no doubt that quadratic structures have many advantages for many things! But then, so do other geometries. For example, pentagonal structures are dominant in living systems, whereas the numbers 4 and 6 dominate in non-organic self-replicating systems like crystals.

Great chatting,

Richard

[Raphael]

No, I can't see it because there is no consistent pattern in the swirls. Each swirl has a double line section that forms no consistent pattern. Here it is expanded for clarity:

336

I colored the double lines and the lines from which they extend. They form F patterns. They are all different.

337

Great chatting,

Richard

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/SATOR%20SQUARE/25thecosmicblenderakaMarkoRodinepicenterdoublingan dhalving.jpg

Richard you were focused on the wrong part of the spiral.
There are two directions to go, in and out with the spiral or a labyrinth.
I was suggesting you look at the all important 'center'.

Do you see a 2 and 5 in this image?
I think it is obvious.
Marko Rodin refers to the 2 and 5 as the cosmic blender.

My theroy of everything would not only incorporate the WHEEL of fortunes, an IDEA which came thousands of years before the Bible and your inspiration the Bible Wheel, but it would also include the work of Marko Rodin, John Searl, Richard Feynman, Wolfgang Pauli, Carl Jung, Roger Penrose, and Ed Witten etc. etc. :yo:

How about I use the Fermat Spiral instead to get my point across about the very important 2 and its mirror image 5?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Fermat%27s_spiral.svg/200px-Fermat%27s_spiral.svg.pnghttp://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Codex4/Sacred%20Swastika%20Science/200px-Fermat27s_spiralsvg-1.pnghttp://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/MezinUkraine10000BCswastika-1.jpg

Do you see the 2 and the 5 at the center of these Fermat spirals?
Do you see the four 5s now at the centers of the four quadrants, of this 12,000 year old doodle?

Now the question is Richard...are those images because of a flip along the y-axis or did we travel along the z-axis, because both actions reveal the same image.
z-axis would be similar to how the earth appears to rotate depending on the hemisphere you are in.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Garden%20Photos/KEYpatternevolution.jpg

I have written quite a bit about the primacy of 2 and 5. It is obvious I am not the first to notice this pattern. It shows up as greek fret patterns too, thus how the yin yang, fret patterns, and the swastika ALL share a common heritage.
:winking0071: http://at37.wordpress.com/category/25-and-52/

Remember what my gift is, I recognize patterns that others dis in their ignorance. In a world unified a seeker of truth should be able to match up many of the best points of the best ideas, they should mesh.
Thanks for making your gift available for my gift and the gifts of others to be heard on this forum, the Bible Wheel Vortex.

The common denominators can be recognized, IMHO.
The 5 platonic squares documented, 14 crystal lattices documented, 17 planar symmetries documented, are ALL evidence that certain patterns have been recognized for thousands of years.
Not to mention the fact phi, pi, and the speed of light in millions of meters/second was embedded into the architecture of the Great Pyramid.
How can that be Richard if the 'metric standard' was not established until 1793?

WHY?
Because the inherent 'G'eometry of the swastika is divine, it truly is a gift yet to be recognized.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Codex4/Sacred%20Swastika%20Science/swastikamicrostructuredesignsforpolarization_bendi ngoflight.jpg

OPTICAL ACTIVITY AND APPLICATIONS OF PLANAR CHIRAL METAMATERIALS
Wen Zhang - PhD Thesis, September 2006
http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/dmb/reports/chiralmetamaterials/Wen%20Zhang%20PhD%20Thesis%20(2007).pdf

http://i884.photobucket.com/albums/ac43/MihrYazd/chirality-1.jpg

And what is the connection between asymmetry, chiral, swastika, DNA, and the number 137?
Can you spell A-R-K?

namaste

RaphaEL

http://i.imgur.com/1lz1R.jpg

[Richard Amiel McGough]

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/SATOR%20SQUARE/25thecosmicblenderakaMarkoRodinepicenterdoublingan dhalving.jpg

Richard you were focused on the wrong part of the spiral.
There are two directions to go, in and out with the spiral or a labyrinth.
I was suggesting you look at the all important 'center'.

Do you see a 2 and 5 in this image?
I think it is obvious.
Marko Rodin refers to the 2 and 5 as the cosmic blender.

I see the 2 and the 5 in the pic above, but I don't see how it matches the pattern of the swastika you have shown. If I start from the center, I just see an ordinary swastika:

338
I think you will need to draw the 2 and the 5 on the swastika so I can see what you mean.



My theroy of everything would not only incorporate the WHEEL of fortunes, an IDEA which came thousands of years before the Bible and your inspiration the Bible Wheel, but it would also include the work of Marko Rodin, John Searl, Richard Feynman, Wolfgang Pauli, Carl Jung, Roger Penrose, and Ed Witten etc. etc. :yo:

Mark Rodin? You've got to be kidding! Your inclusion of him in a list with Feynman and Einstein could not be more absurd. He's a hack pseudo-scientist who presents ridiculous unfounded claims as if they were facts. He claims to be working on the most advanced mathematics and then proceeds to finger-paint the digits like a five year old in kindergarten. I can't believe you would think there is any validity to his meaningless word salad.



How about I use the Fermat Spiral instead to get my point across about the very important 2 and its mirror image 5?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Fermat%27s_spiral.svg/200px-Fermat%27s_spiral.svg.pnghttp://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Codex4/Sacred%20Swastika%20Science/200px-Fermat27s_spiralsvg-1.pnghttp://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/MezinUkraine10000BCswastika-1.jpg

Do you see the 2 and the 5 at the center of these Fermat spirals?
Do you see the four 5s now at the centers of the four quadrants, of this 12,000 year old doodle?

Yes, I can see the mirror reflection of the two spirals, but I don't see that on the swastika you presented. Please draw them on it so I can see what you mean.



Now the question is Richard...are those images because of a flip along the y-axis or did we travel along the z-axis, because both actions reveal the same image.
z-axis would be similar to how the earth appears to rotate depending on the hemisphere you are in.

If I understand you correctly, you are talking about the fact that the earth would appear to rotate clockwise or counterclockwise depending on whether you are look up or down along the z-axis. Is that correct?



I have written quite a bit about the primacy of 2 and 5. It is obvious I am not the first to notice this pattern. It shows up as greek fret patterns too, thus how the yin yang, fret patterns, and the swastika ALL share a common heritage.
:winking0071: http://at37.wordpress.com/category/25-and-52/

When I was studying numbers back in the 90s I was impressed by the symmetric relation between 2 and 5 and how they related to each other in base 10.

1/2 = .5
1/5 = .2



Remember what my gift is, I recognize patterns that others dis in their ignorance. In a world unified a seeker of truth should be able to match up many of the best points of the best ideas, they should mesh.
Thanks for making your gift available for my gift and the gifts of others to be heard on this forum, the Bible Wheel Vortex.

It is my pleasure. I too was frustrated with folks ignorantly rejected my work by saying "you can find patterns in anything."

But on the other hand, the world is filled with cranks who think they see meaningful patterns in random phenomena like burnt toast, so I can't blame them too much.



The common denominators can be recognized, IMHO.
The 5 platonic squares documented, 14 crystal lattices documented, 17 planar symmetries documented, are ALL evidence that certain patterns have been recognized for thousands of years.

Agreed. Nobody can deny that geometrical patterns have played a huge role in art and science. But neither can we deny that cranks have made all sorts of unfounded assertions based on those patterns. The challenge is to separate the wheat from the chaff, the Rodins from the Einsteins.



Not to mention the fact phi, pi, and the speed of light in millions of meters/second was embedded into the architecture of the Great Pyramid.
How can that be Richard if the 'metric standard' was not established until 1793?

I'm pretty skeptical of that assertion.



WHY?
Because the inherent 'G'eometry of the swastika is divine, it truly is a gift yet to be recognized.

That is yet to be established. What do you mean by "divine"? If Yahweh is truly divine, why did he choose to mimic a Bronze age tribal war god?



http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Codex4/Sacred%20Swastika%20Science/swastikamicrostructuredesignsforpolarization_bendi ngoflight.jpg

OPTICAL ACTIVITY AND APPLICATIONS OF PLANAR CHIRAL METAMATERIALS
Wen Zhang - PhD Thesis, September 2006
http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/dmb/reports/chiralmetamaterials/Wen Zhang PhD Thesis (2007).pdf (http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/dmb/reports/chiralmetamaterials/Wen%20Zhang%20PhD%20Thesis%20%282007%29.pdf)


The swastika is just one of many shapes in that table.



http://i884.photobucket.com/albums/ac43/MihrYazd/chirality-1.jpg

And what is the connection between asymmetry, chiral, swastika, DNA, and the number 137?
Can you spell A-R-K?

It would help if you were a little more explicit!

Great chatting,

Richard

[Raphael]

I think you will need to draw the 2 and the 5 on the swastika so I can see what you mean.


http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Codex4/Sacred%20Swastika%20Science/SwastikaMezine3plus1.pnghttp://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Codex4/Sacred%20Swastika%20Science/SwastikaMezine3plus1-1.png
5 ... and its chiral asymmetric image ... 2 note: how in each image the angular spiral in the north has been rotated 90 degrees.
(...and take a look Richard this is post #52 by me ... AHA!)


*
Mark Rodin? You've got to be kidding! Your inclusion of him in a list with Feynman and Einstein could not be more absurd. He's a hack pseudo-scientist who presents ridiculous unfounded claims as if they were facts. He claims to be working on the most advanced mathematics and then proceeds to finger-paint the digits like a five year old in kindergarten. I can't believe you would think there is any validity to his meaningless word salad.

I disagree.
Patterns are patterns no matter how you put it together.
Marko claimed the Unapproachable Great Name of God ABHA, its numerical equivalency 1251 = 9 was his inspiration.
His was the Baha'i faith and your bible wheel source of inspiration was the bible.
He calls his inspiration VORTEX Based Mathematics and you call this forum the Bible Wheel VORTEX, and I got sucked down a VORTEX called the SwaStika. :yo:
I can show you how kids weaving Persian rugs or granny knitting a sweater is tuning into the weave, tapestry of the universe.
String theory will one day evolve into a knot theory.


*
If I understand you correctly, you are talking about the fact that the earth would appear to rotate clockwise or counterclockwise depending on whether you are look up or down along the z-axis. Is that correct?


yes


*

When I was studying numbers back in the 90s I was impressed by the symmetric relation between 2 and 5 and how they related to each other in base 10.

1/2 = .5
1/5 = .2


Okay guess what numbers Jesus, Marko, you, and ME can agree on?
2 and 5 can help explain 2 Fish and 5 Loaves of Bread miracle...IMHO


*
It is my pleasure. I too was frustrated with folks ignorantly rejected my work by saying "you can find patterns in anything."
But on the other hand, the world is filled with cranks who think they see meaningful patterns in random phenomena like burnt toast, so I can't blame them too much.


And when Richard Feynman suggests all good theorists should write '137' on the wall and worry about it, did you Richard?

I didn't worry about it, maybe that is why I tripped over it? :eek:


*
Agreed. Nobody can deny that geometrical patterns have played a huge role in art and science. But neither can we deny that cranks have made all sorts of unfounded assertions based on those patterns. The challenge is to separate the wheat from the chaff, the Rodins from the Einsteins.


Is John Searl a crank?
What about the entire corpus of the QaBaLaH or the I-Ching?
Do we toss it all out?

that would be stupid.
I placed ALL THEORIES of EVERYTHING on the table, the aforementioned, plus the bIbLEs and I found PROFOUND common denominators that unify.
Maybe that is why it shakes folks up.


*

I'm pretty skeptical of that assertion.


Which one do you not agree with?
Which one can we not find in the Great Pyramid?
pi?
phi?
speed of light in millions of meters/sec?

I am hoping you challenge me on the last one.


*
That is yet to be established. What do you mean by "divine"? If Yahweh is truly divine, why did he choose to mimic a Bronze age tribal war god?


That is only ONE interpretation of YHVH, the one dispensed by self-serving theologians.
My interpretation of YHVH has more to do with weather, geometry and whole number Qabalah codes that mesh with quantum pondering, stuff pagans who were keen observers of nature would have KEYed into.

i.e. Y + H + V + H = 26

Gematria codes:

Are you familiar with YHVH = 26?

Y = 10
H = 5
V = 6
H = 5

Or that QaBaLaH = 137?

Q = 100
B = 2
L = 30
H = 5


*
The swastika is just one of many shapes in that table.


Not really, when we consider that the swastika is comprised of 4 x L then we begin to see the associations between all the shapes.
Take a look at those images again, they are comprised of the following shapes T, H, L, +, the Swastika and Swastika 'parts' that look like 2/Z or 5/S
Which brings us back to Marko Rodin, Jesus, you and me and this blog:
http://at37.wordpress.com/category/25-and-52/

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Codex4/Sacred%20Swastika%20Science/swastikamicrostructuredesignsforpolarization_bendi ngoflight.jpghttp://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/swastiKAasthebuildersglyph.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Tarot52811.jpg

So Richard you probably know that YHVH = 26

But did you know CARD X is a reference to 11 + 8 + 2 + 5 = 26
And how many constants are there in physics?
Here is a listing compiled of the 26 constants AHA!
:yo: http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/constants.html

Seeing the simplicity yet?
The same recurring themes.

The science of QBLH has a value of 137 and YHVH = 26
Richard Feynman said to worry about 137?
I say no longer, I can go up to the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem write 137 on the wall and tell those folks not to worry any longer.

CARD X of the Tarot is the treasure map...

And I love the AHA! where we use CARD X to unvEIL the I376 code too.

namaste

RaphaEL

[Richard Amiel McGough]

2 ... and its chiral asymmetric image ... 5 note: how in each image the angular spiral in the north has been rotated 90 degrees.

Great! I get it. Thanks. :thumb:



I disagree.
Patterns are patterns no matter how you put it together.
Marko claimed the Unapproachable Great Name of God ABHA, its numerical equivalency 1251 = 9 was his inspiration.
His was the Baha'i faith and your bible wheel source of inspiration was the bible.
He calls his inspiration VORTEX Based Mathematics and you call this forum the Bible Wheel VORTEX, and I got sucked down a VORTEX called the SwaStika. :yo:
I can show you how kids weaving Persian rugs or granny knitting a sweater is tuning into the weave, tapestry of the universe.
String theory will one day evolve into a knot theory.

It's fine that you disagree - that's your choice. But I'll never understand how you could fail to see the vast gulf that separates real physics from the Marko's gibberish. His claim that he is doing "the most advanced mathematics on the planet" are off the charts absurd.

As for the fact that he likes the Bible, that utterly absurd as a "reason" think there is any validity to his claims. Your logic is falacious my friend.

You seem to have a fixation on mere labels. The fact that he calls his crap "vortex mathematics" and I call this forum the "Bible Wheel Vortex" has exactly zero significance. I can't believe I have to explain such basic logic to you. No offence! I'm just telling you how I see it.



Okay guess what numbers Jesus, Marko, you, and ME can agree on?
2 and 5 can help explain 2 Fish and 5 Loaves of Bread miracle...IMHO

Explain? What is there to explain?



And when Richard Feynman suggests all good theorists should write '137' on the wall and worry about it, did you Richard?

I cited that quote from him in my article about the number 137. But what's your point? His quote doesn't prove there is anything to Rodin's baseless assertions.



Is John Searl a crank?

I never heard of him till just now, but he claims to be able to make an perpetual motion machine, so yes, the probability of crankhood is near maximum.



What about the entire corpus of the QaBaLaH or the I-Ching?
Do we toss it all out?

Not all. But neither do we uncritically accept it all.



I placed ALL THEORIES of EVERYTHING on the table, the aforementioned, plus the bIbLEs and I found PROFOUND common denominators that unify.
Maybe that is why it shakes folks up.

You appear to be using the "theory of everything" in a very loose sense. The real theory of everything would explain gravity and electrodynamics. Can your swastika do that? Can you calculate the curvature of spacetime? As yet, I have not seen any real science in your "theory of everything."



Which one do you not agree with?
Which one can we not find in the Great Pyramid?
pi?
phi?
speed of light in millions of meters/sec?

I am hoping you challenge me on the last one.

It was the last one that I was referring to. Please enlighten me.




That is yet to be established. What do you mean by "divine"? If Yahweh is truly divine, why did he choose to mimic a Bronze age tribal war god?
That is only ONE interpretation of YHVH, the one dispensed by self-serving theologians.

Uh ... no, that's what the Bible plainly states in hundreds of verses.



My interpretation of YHVH has more to do with weather, geometry and whole number Qabalah codes that mesh with quantum pondering, stuff pagans who were keen observers of nature would have KEYed into.

i.e. Y + H + V + H = 26

Gematria codes:

Are you familiar with YHVH = 26?

Y = 10
H = 5
V = 6
H = 5

Or that QaBaLaH = 137?

Q = 100
B = 2
L = 30
H = 5


Are you kidding? I've been familiar with those numbers and words for decades.

http://www.biblewheel.com/gr/GR_FineStructure.asp

Are you aware of the connection between Genesis 1, John 1, and the Holographic Generating Set (27, 37, 73) (http://www.biblewheel.com/gr/GR_Creation_Set.asp) which sums to 137?



So Richard you probably know that YHVH = 26

11 + 8 + 2 + 5 = 26

Seeing the simplicity yet?
The same recurring themes.

CARD X of the Tarot is the treasure map...

namaste
That's a nice identity. But its only one out of an infinity of others.

And by the way, the Wheel Card is really the eleventh card. It corresponds to the eleventh letter Kaph. The numbers on the cards are off by one.

[Raphael]

I appreciate what you can offer about 37 and 137 on your site.
I have gone over it.
But Richard what I found out about 137-69 takes it to the next level.
Because my work shows the links to other significant beliefs. (my strength, your weakness)
Vernon J. and you and your site focus mostly on Judeao-Christian interpretations and associations. (your strength, my weakness)

Speed of light in the GP is a nice find, you have not heard about this one yet?

A REAL SIMPLE time capsule because of its simplicity to be conveyed forward in time.
4 Simple Steps....

1/ Draw a square with base 440 x 440
2/ Put a circle inside
3/ Put a circle outside

Then here is why pi is important.
Figure out the difference in the two circumference.
The difference, you end up with the figures we see in both images below.
Those are two estimates of the diff, we can see the speed of light is consistent in both.

299,792,458

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Codex4/4%20AGES%20Models%20DNA/137-96/137GreatPyramidSpeedofLight299_7912558.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Codex4/4%20AGES%20Models%20DNA/137-96/RevelationofthePyramids299792458speedoflightinmill ionsofmeterspersecond.jpg

And then thousands of years later we go how did they predict the speed of light in meters/sec. when meters were not introduced into our realm until 1793 A.D.?

AHA!
Want me to explain?
Kinda....I AM trying to earn those archangLE wings.

namaste

RaphaEL


http://i.imgur.com/1lz1R.jpg

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I appreciate what you can offer about 37 and 137 on your site.
I have gone over it.
But Richard what I found out about 137-69 takes it to the next level.
Because my work shows the links to other significant beliefs. (my strength, your weakness)
Vernon J. and you and your site focus mostly on Judeao-Christian interpretations and associations. (your strength, my weakness)

Speed of light in the GP is a nice find, you have not heard about this one yet?

A REAL SIMPLE time capsule because of its simplicity to be conveyed forward in time.
4 Simple Steps....

1/ Draw a square with base 440 x 440
2/ Put a circle inside
3/ Put a circle outside

Then here is why pi is important.
Figure out the difference in the two circumference.
The difference, you end up with the figures we see in both images below.
Those are two estimates of the diff, we can see the speed of light is consistent in both.

299,792,458

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Codex4/4%20AGES%20Models%20DNA/137-96/137GreatPyramidSpeedofLight299_7912558.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Codex4/4%20AGES%20Models%20DNA/137-96/RevelationofthePyramids299792458speedoflightinmill ionsofmeterspersecond.jpg

And then thousands of years later we go how did they predict the speed of light in meters/sec. when meters were not introduced into our realm until 1793 A.D.?

AHA!
Want me to explain?
Kinda....I AM trying to earn those archangLE wings.

namaste

RaphaEL



I started watching the video "Clock of Giza" and he opens with the ridiculous idea that time is "three dimensional" like space. He says that the year is one "dimension" and the year is another, and the "Great Year" is another. Those different UNITS of time do not imply different dimensions. WHAT A MORON!

As for the calulation - why did you start with 440 cubits?

And what length are you using for those "cubits"? The guy in the video simply declares the "shocking truth" that a cubit is defined exactly as pi/6. But there's just one little problem - pi doesn't have any units! It is totally meaningless to define a cubit in terms of a unitless number! How do people convince themselves of such crap? :doh:

[Richard Amiel McGough]

There is no limit to the crap people make up!

This site (http://www.allaboutpopularissues.org/the-great-pyramid-of-giza.htm) says: The length of each side of the Great Pyramid’s base is 365.2422 Royal Egyptian cubits ('pyramid cubits'). Amazingly, our astronomical year has a mean length of 365.2422454 solar days. Also, the perimeter of the base of the Great Pyramid is 36524.22 'pyramid inches,' the length of 100 years expressed in days.

Nice. And what is a "pyramid cubit"?

This site (http://www.gizapyramid.com/measurements.htm) gives different dimensions (in cubits) for each side as follows:

North 439.67(230.25) , south 440.05 (230.25)

East 439.93 (230.39) , west 439.87 (230.36)


Therefore, the "royal cubit" must be about 439.8/365.2 = 1.2 x a "normal" cubit.

And this site (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread786956/pg1) says that a cubit is defined by pi - phi2 = one cubit, again, seemingly ignorant of the fact that the numbers are dimensionless!

340

I despair for the gross ignorance of people with calculators!

[Raphael]

I started watching the video "Clock of Giza" and he opens with the ridiculous idea that time is "three dimensional" like space. He says that the year is one "dimension" and the year is another, and the "Great Year" is another. Those different UNITS of time do not imply different dimensions. WHAT A MORON!

whatever...I am not interested in everything he says. If he makes a mistake on his income tax do I toss out everything else he does in life?
I posted the image for your benefit.
To show how simple the blueprint is.

2 circles
1 square with a base 440 x 440
calculate pi
speed of light in metres/sec

Did you check out the second video...Revelations of the Pyramids?
Much better far more entertaining.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Codex4/4%20AGES%20Models%20DNA/137-96/RevelationofthePyramids299792458speedoflightinmill ionsofmeterspersecond.jpg



As for the calulation - why did you start with 440 cubits?


Because I think you answer that in your next response.
What would you start with?
Do you have proof Egyptians used pi = 22/7 or pi = 3.141 blah blah?

note 22/7= 3 1/7 = 317 or 713 or 137?

How many letters in the Torah?
Can we use the numbers 713 to figure it out?

:yo:
7 = 3 + 4
13 = 5 + 8

How many letters in the Torah?

304,508



And what length are you using for those "cubits"? The guy in the video simply declares the "shocking truth" that a cubit is defined exactly as pi/6. But there's just one little problem - pi doesn't have any units! It is totally meaningless to define a cubit in terms of a unitless number! How do people convince themselves of such crap? :doh:

I don't think it matters what you call the units or how you define them.
I think what is important here is the number '44', in figuring out the DIFFERENCE of those two circles separated by a square and arriving at the figures posted.

Yesterday was April 4th, i.e. 4/4 and by coincidence you missed that point.

the dEvIL is in the dEtaIL and if you flip St. Peter or LEvI priest on his head they see I^37?

LEvI = I^37 :yo: (rotated 180 degrees out-of-phase wave)

LEvI priests would need to know about I37, the fine structure constant has not changed in the past 5000 years has it?

Maybe that is why they gave their 'science', their 'theory of everything' a value of 137?

Hey Richard I am trying to lead you to an AHA.
What 3 constants make up the fine structure constant 1/137?

e^2 is one of them, along with the speed of light and plancks constant.

Your AHA arrives when you make the connection between e^2 and the pairs of animals entering the ARK which was 137 meters long.

Your AHA arrives when you realize we can write 137 on Jesus the son of god and position him between the TWO THIEVES, the TWO POLARITIES, the TWO SPECTRAL LINES of a hydrogen atom!

Or maybe Jachin and Boaz?

Did you know according to Coptic Mysticism that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit = 713 x 9? :yo:

namaste

[Raphael]

[
North 439.67(230.25) , south 440.05 (230.25)

East 439.93 (230.39) , west 439.87 (230.36)


Why 440 cubits you asked?

An elementary school kid could round off ALL of the those numbers to the correct answer >>> 440.

44 is what we are shooting for here to complete our speed of light calculations in meters per second.

Interesting that metric was established in 1793.

Considering the ancients used 22/7 for pi calculations, EXACT answers as requested by you are not required.

1793 contains the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit formula too.

1793 >> 713 x 9 :yo:

Where else do we find those numbers 1379?
What other significant coincidences did I find re: 1379?
:winking0071:

namaste

[Richard Amiel McGough]

whatever...I am not interested in everything he says. If he makes a mistake on his income tax do I toss out everything else he does in life?

His error was not a simple mistake in arithmatic. His assertion of three dimensions of time based on different units is utterly absurd and reveals a fundamental inability to reason. It is more than enough reaon to reject him as a source for anything.



I posted the image for your benefit.
To show how simple the blueprint is.

2 circles
1 square with a base 440 x 440
calculate pi
speed of light in metres/sec

Yes, and I appreciate that. The image helped make the idea clear. But it's just a another random factoid that carries no meaningful implications as far as I can tell. Folks are obsessed with the pyramid as if it were a kind of "authoritative Scritpure" from which the secrets of the universe can be divined. For example, they convert the angle of 51 degrees 52 minutes into seconds to get a number close to the speed of light in miles per second. Does that mean I should believe that the builders of the pyramid encoded the speed of light in both meters and miles into the pyramid? I think not. That would be believable only if they wrote a message in words telling us that's what they intended. Then it would be the greatest find in the history of the world rather than just another random factoid.



Did you check out the second video...Revelations of the Pyramids?
Much better far more entertaining.

I don't find irrational baseless claims to be entertaining.



Because I think you answer that in your next response.
What would you start with?
Do you have proof Egyptians used pi = 22/7 or pi = 3.141 blah blah?

note 22/7= 3 1/7 = 317 or 713 or 137?

How many letters in the Torah?
Can we use the numbers 713 to figure it out?

:yo:
7 = 3 + 4
13 = 5 + 8

How many letters in the Torah?

304,508

Post hoc pattern finding is utterly meaningless. And besides, different versions of the Torah have different numbers of letters.



I don't think it matters what you call the units or how you define them.

Then you don't understand the meaning of units or why they are significant. Any number can be associated with any measurement using different units.



I think what is important here is the number '44', in figuring out the DIFFERENCE of those two circles separated by a square and arriving at the figures posted.

Yesterday was April 4th, i.e. 4/4 and by coincidence you missed that point.

I've long been partial to the number 44 since I had the Dumbo dream in which a woman said said "Are you looking for Dumbo? 12 x 44." The product is 528 = KEY (maphte'ach) in Hebrew, as in Isaiah 22:22.



the dEvIL is in the dEtaIL and if you flip St. Peter or LEvI priest on his head they see I^37?

LEvI = I^37 :yo: (rotated 180 degrees out-of-phase wave)

LEvI priests would need to know about I37, the fine structure constant has not changed in the past 5000 years has it?

Maybe that is why they gave their 'science', their 'theory of everything' a value of 137?

How is it that you don't realize that kind of number/letter manipulation would never lead to any real knowledge, and would never be convincing to any serious thinker?



Hey Richard I am trying to lead you to an AHA.

I appreciate that. But you will need to be a little more rigorous in your logic or I won't be able to follow. I really am allergic to random number/letter games. They mean nothing to me. When you look at the work I have done you will see how careful and rigorous I was. That's the only thing that would convince me because I have seen mountains of malarky built on the shifting sands of random connections.



What 3 constants make up the fine structure constant 1/137?

e^2 is one of them, along with the speed of light and plancks constant.

Your AHA arrives when you make the connection between e^2 and the pairs of animals entering the ARK which was 137 meters long.

Your AHA arrives when you realize we can write 137 on Jesus the son of god and position him between the TWO THIEVES, the TWO POLARITIES, the TWO SPECTRAL LINES of a hydrogen atom!

Or maybe Jachin and Boaz?

Or on the time between a pair of farts? How is it that you speak of Jesus as the son of God when you reject the concept of a theistic God?

Why would anyone with any rationality make a connection between the fine structure of hydrogen spectra and the mythological story of the ark with pairs of animals?



Did you know according to Coptic Mysticism that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit = 713 x 9? :yo:

namaste
No, I didn't know anything about that. But why would you care? You don't believe in Coptic Christianity, or any form of Christianity as far as I can tell.

All the best,

Richard

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Why 440 cubits you asked?

An elementary school kid could round off ALL of the those numbers to the correct answer >>> 440.

You are correct, of course. I asked that question before researching the dimensions of the pyramid.



44 is what we are shooting for here to complete our speed of light calculations in meters per second.

But the calculation is meaningless. There is no motivation to compare the difference between the two circles or to think that the difference would relate to the speed of light in meters per second. With no standards of any kind, we could find numbers like that in anything we look at. It's meaningless.

And worse, if folks followed the kind of logic you suggest, we never would have had any real science, and we never would have discovered the speed of light in the first place!




Interesting that metric was established in 1793.

This is the problem with your "methodology." It's just a massive collection of random factoids. It is as different from a disciplined science as anything could be.



Considering the ancients used 22/7 for pi calculations, EXACT answers as requested by you are not required.

Goody! More wiggle-room for random associations.



1793 contains the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit formula too.

1793 >> 713 x 9 :yo:


But the concept of the Trinity is a Christian concept about the nature of the Christian God that was developed to harmonize Christian Scriptures. As far as I know, you reject all of that, so how can you find any "meaning" in those numbers?



Where else do we find those numbers 1379?
What other significant coincidences did I find re: 1379?
:winking0071:

namaste
Who cares? You are just randomly collecting random associations from an infinite sea of letters, numbers, and historical events. It seems to me to be utterly meaningless.

[Raphael]

But the concept of the Trinity is a Christian concept about the nature of the Christian God that was developed to harmonize Christian Scriptures. As far as I know, you reject all of that, so how can you find any "meaning" in those numbers?


I do not reject 'all of that'.
As a matter of fact as I have pointed out CARD X 11 8 2 5 of the Tarot is depicting the Birth of Christ a.k.a. Matthew 1:18-25 and I want to add it is clear that if we add the Masonic cipher (3) for the 72 names of god to the center of CARD X we end up an algorithm that nature employs.

11, 2, 5, 8 becomes 1, 1, 2, (3) 5, 8 = Fibonacci one of nature's primary algorithms. i.e. phi

So CARD X, the picture worth 10,000 words suggests two profound overriding concepts are connected to Jesus.
Precession of the Equinoxes and Fibonacci or phi AHA!
And guess what Richard we have proof that 11, 2, 5, 8, is connected to 4 constellations that form a phi spiral when plotted in the heavens.

proof of all I say scroll down the link until you see this image.
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/2009/04/08/11258-dendera-zodiac-and-the-4-royal-stars/
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/4RoyalStarsGalacticCross2-1.jpg

Everything that you offer regarding Christianity can be found in some shape or form elsewhere Richard.
Do you think the Trinity, which is not mentioned in the bible is unique?
Can we not find a trinity hierarchy in other beliefs?
Why do you bother with these same ole' BS arguments, like Christianity is unique and the best narrative to buy into?
Because I am not, it is a copy cat of ALL the archetypes that have come before.

Archetypes = patterns = geometry = narratives that are rebleated by the herd

Because truth is truth is truth and there is no religion higher than the truth.

And I might add that billions of other folks could not care less about the Christian trinity, because they have their own super duper 3 like Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu, or Buddha, Confucius, Lao Tse, etc.etc.

And science has a trinity of constants that make up the fine structure constant too. I find that interesting.
And what confuses physicists about the 3 constants that make up 1/137 is that they become dimensionless when mixed together in that formula.
In other words it does not matter what the units are that you use to 'identify' them with, any where in the universe, you will still get the dimensionless '137'.
And that is a science factoid.
This is one of the reasons we should worry about 137 - Richard Feynman



Who cares? You are just randomly collecting random associations from an infinite sea of letters, numbers, and historical events. It seems to me to be utterly meaningless.

dude I am confused or have I just been conned by your new game?

I thought you were done as a righteous christian?
It seems your resurrection allows you to use both science and religion with equal veracity?
Sadly your mind is made up about many ideas others have that are outside your field of interest.

IF you believe in god, there are NO coincidences, everything, I mean everything is just more EVIDENCE of that underlying unity, including my IMAGINATION that we fail to comprehend using our limited skill set..
GOD is everything including my thoughts that I am trying to share with you?
refute that. :winking0071:

So you can call my methods of seeking out the truth BS, and I could do the same with your methods, and cha cha cha till the end of time.

Bottom line is, I seem to SEE, HEAR and FEEL the cosmic clues more than most these daze, I sense a unity/harmony between all hemispheres of the earth and between all beliefs more than most folks do because of the methods I employ. :winking0071:

Richard I always find it funny how folks who preach about a god are quick to toss out anything that falls OUTSIDE their accepted narrative...that is kinda hypocritical.
That any human can anoint themselves judge/jury/executioner using a very limited sensory skill set that not long ago tossed out 95% of DNA calling it junk, and lets face it Richard IF folks with scopes had not told you and me about dark matter we would still be in the dark about dark matter and dark energy.
Einstein was in the dark about dark matter and dark energy and he also did NOT know that the 4 forces were asymmetrical like 3+1!

I can safely say I know important things about the universe Einstein did NOT know.



I've long been partial to the number 44 since I had the Dumbo dream in which a woman said said "Are you looking for Dumbo? 12 x 44." The product is 528 = KEY (maphte'ach) in Hebrew, as in Isaiah 22:22.


I also have long been partial to KEY 528 after first reading about it in one of Bonnie Gaunt's book.

Here is another coincidence....RaphaEL the archangEL who knows about angLEs was born at 5:28 am. :yo:

And if you google do a search using just the terms 'KEY 528', guess what?
Your site is #1 followed by six (6) entries of mine.

But Richard IF you add the search term DNA to KEY 528, guess what?
Your site no longer shows up on front page.
But my blogs dominate the IDEA that DNA KEY 528 are associated!

And I am glad you brought up 528.
What Tarot sources do you use to support your gibberish?
Two of mine, of many, I use to support my gibberish are Papus and C.C. Zain.
In both of these Tarot sources you will find an image of a KEY.
(Postel offers a third image of a key...)

And what you did not know about the KEY 528 is that there is actually a KEY that highlights the 528, only the teeth are not in that order.

So can you figure out which of these two KEYS is found in the Tarot book, and which would you find in a chemistry book describing DNA?

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Alchemy/KEYtoOccultScienceCCZainFoundationofScience-2.jpghttp://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/GENEs%20MEMEs%20TEMEs/Journalpbio1000276g005-1.png

This KEY's tEEth highlights the LION 5, EAGLE 8, and the BULL 2
And if you ever do visit this link that I keep posting for your benefit, have a look around ... many AHA to be found.
:yo: http://at37.wordpress.com/2012/02/23/windmills-swastikas-seeds/

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/PrecessionStepValancesrotations.jpghttp://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/PrecessionStep3-1.jpg?t=1253574052

Btw the basic structure of my bullseye 4 AGES modEL looks very much like yours and so many others.
It is a Wheel with 3 levels or concentric rings.
It is NOT so unique as I found out.

The earliest bible wheel modEL I have managed to find goes back to about 5000 BCE.
And to bring the 7000 year old modEL that clearly shows three levels plus a center, up to the 21st ideal, I can use the wisdom of Ed Witten to explain why only 3 levels might be necessary. It was a nice find that confirmed my modEL.

Your bible wheel is based on 66 or 22, 22, 22.
My model has 22 on the first level, 26 on the second, 30 on the third for a total of 78.

1 4 7 10 = 22
2 5 8 11 = 26 = YHVH
3 6 9 12 = 30

A total that resembles the Tarot and surpasses the New and Old compilation by 12.
Hey maybe another *New Improved* testament needs to be added?
It would make sense, just like the New Testament added to the Old Testament around 2000 years ago, maybe another 12 chapters needs to be added during this Age of Aquarius?

12 science chapters to go along with all of that NEW and OLD bIbLE babel?
What if the sin-thesis is not quite done yet?
History suggests I AM correct and a static bIbLE is in peril.

What 12 are missing?
Here is a clue.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/SATOR%20SQUARE/SeferRaziel12constellations-1-1.pnghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Telephone-keypad.svg/200px-Telephone-keypad.svg.png

Is that a KEY pad? :eek:

FACT lost on the herd who text message mundane and profane idiocy all day long:
Richard imagine everybody has been given a cEL-PHOne to do business with the money lenders and animal traders. :lol:

What I like about my 3x4 = 12 grid is it puts my idea on the same page as the 3x4 = 12 Breastplate of the High Priest and as the 3x4 = 12 grid we see above on the left attributed to the angel RazIZL who gave Adam and Eve the book of secrets in Eden.

Richard it is obvious that a potential theory of everything would need to be able to reconcile religion and science too, and that will not happen until science gets a grip on how the two hemispheres of the mind operates in conjunction with the heart and its environment.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4iFCu4ih10&feature=related

Richard can your religion provide me proof of Adam, i.e. do you have a picture?
Richard can your science provide me proof of the Atom, i.e. do you have a picture of an atom to prove your science is true blue?

You were demanding I provide you with a theory of everything, that included electro-magnetism and gravity, can you give me a modEL for one measly atom please. :yo:

amen

namaste

RaphaEL

[Richard Amiel McGough]

But the concept of the Trinity is a Christian concept about the nature of the Christian God that was developed to harmonize Christian Scriptures. As far as I know, you reject all of that, so how can you find any "meaning" in those numbers?
I do not reject 'all of that'.

When you reject theism, how can it be that you don't reject "all of that?" It would really help if you could state what you actually believe about the Bible, it's God, and Christ. As it is, it seems like you are using all the words but denying all the meaning. I trust you can see why I find this confusing.



As a matter of fact as I have pointed out CARD X 11 8 2 5 of the Tarot is depicting the Birth of Christ a.k.a. Matthew 1:18-25 and I want to add it is clear that if we add the Masonic cipher (3) for the 72 names of god to the center of CARD X we end up an algorithm that nature employs.

11, 2, 5, 8 becomes 1, 1, 2, (3) 5, 8 = Fibonacci one of nature's primary algorithms. i.e. phi

So CARD X, the picture worth 10,000 words suggests two profound overriding concepts are connected to Jesus.
Precession of the Equinoxes and Fibonacci or phi AHA!
And guess what Richard we have proof that 11, 2, 5, 8, is connected to 4 constellations that form a phi spiral when plotted in the heavens.

It all looks like random associations to me. Why Matthew 1:18-25 and not Genesis 1:18-25 or some other book? I am utterly unable to discern any PRINCIPLES in your study, and I have no reason to believe a unprincipled collection of facts drawn from an infinite ocean. It's like drawing patterns in the stars - you can draw whatever you want, but would there be any meaning?



proof of all I say scroll down the link until you see this image.
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/2009/04/08/11258-dendera-zodiac-and-the-4-royal-stars/

We apparently have different concepts of what constitutes "proof."



Everything that you offer regarding Christianity can be found in some shape or form elsewhere Richard.
Do you think the Trinity, which is not mentioned in the bible is unique?
Can we not find a trinity hierarchy in other beliefs?

Yes, the specific doctrine of the Trinity that was devised to answer the verses in the Bible is unique. I've never seen anything like they hypostatic union outside of Christianity.



Why do you bother with these same ole' BS arguments, like Christianity is unique and the best narrative to buy into?
Because I am not, it is a copy cat of ALL the archetypes that have come before.

I don't. You are the one who is constantly referring to the Biblical terminology as if it meant something, but you never actually defined what you mean by those words and you have denied what they mean to Christians. So it looks like confusion to me.



Archetypes = patterns = geometry = narratives that are rebleated by the herd

That's cool - I can relate to all that. But if you are going to import Biblical terminology, you will need to define it so folks don't CONFUSE it with the traditional meanings.



Because truth is truth is truth and there is no religion higher than the truth.

And tautologies are tautological! :p



And I might add that billions of other folks could not care less about the Christian trinity, because they have their own super duper 3 like Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu, or Buddha, Confucius, Lao Tse, etc.etc.

I'm familiar with the Hindu trinity, but I doubt Lao Tse with is Tao, Duality, and Ten Thousand things captures the same concept.

It seems you are often taken in by meaningless supErfIciaL simiLarItiEs.



And science has a trinity of constants that make up the fine structure constant too. I find that interesting.
And what confuses physicists about the 3 constants that make up 1/137 is that they become dimensionless when mixed together in that formula.
In other words it does not matter what the units are that you use to 'identify' them with, any where in the universe, you will still get the dimensionless '137'.
And that is a science factoid. :winking0071:

The fact that those constants combine to give a dimensionless constant is indeed profound. But your comment indicates a fundamental failure to understand my criticism of deriving the length of a cubit in meters from the dimensionless numbers pi and phi.




Who cares? You are just randomly collecting random associations from an infinite sea of letters, numbers, and historical events. It seems to me to be utterly meaningless.
dude I am confused or have I just been conned by your new game?

I thought you were done as a righteous christian?
It seems your resurrection allows you to use both science and religion with equal veracity?
Sadly your mind is made up about many ideas others have that are outside your field of interest.

IF you believe in god, there are NO coincidences, everything, I mean everything is just more EVIDENCE of that underlying unity, including my IMAGINATION that we fail to comprehend using our limited skill set..
GOD is everything including my thoughts that I am trying to share with you?
refute that. :winking0071:

So you can call my methods of seeking out the truth BS, and I could do the same with your methods, and cha cha cha till the end of time.

Bottom line is, I seem to SEE, HEAR and FEEL the cosmic clues more than most these daze, I sense a unity/harmony between all hemispheres of the earth and between all beliefs more than most folks do because of the methods I employ. :winking0071:

Oh yes, I am "done as a righteous christian" but it may take a long time to purge myself of the "attitude" that you don't like. Or maybe I shouldn't purge myself of my anti-bullshit rage. The world is full of bullshit, and you are making outrageous claims that don't really match the meanings of the words you are using. So I simply speak what I see as best I can. You find it frustrating because your collection of factoids lack coherence.

I don't understand what you mean by "use both science and religion with equal veracity." Religion is made up crap by people who don't know shit, science is based on logic and facts. Do you really think they are in any way "equal?"

I am inclined towards the belief that all is UNITY but collections of random factoids from an infinite ocean of possibilities proves nothing. At least no to me.

I understand your mystical sense of reality. I think it's great. But your attempt to "prove it" with all these factoids fails miserably in my estimation.

Your assertion that you have reason to reject my "methods" as I do yours is the definition of absurdity. You have no "methods" other than superficial similarities and gathering of random facts without any overriding principles guiding your theory. There is a world of difference between what you are doing and real science. And COME ON MAN! You can't not know this! Nothing you write is anything like a science or mathematics textbook.



Richard I always find it funny how folks who preach about a god are quick to toss out anything that falls OUTSIDE their accepted narrative...that is kinda hypocritical.

That's not me. I don't preach god no more.

And I am open to anything that can be established with logic and facts, and I'm even open to mystical intuitions. But you are mixing it all together in a way that is totally idiosyncratic and fruitless because you have no principles, no foundation. You have presented nothing for me to believe even if I wanted to! It's like you are posting your private dream journal. It is opaque to everyone but you.



That any human can anoint themselves judge/jury/executioner using a very limited sensory skill set that not long ago tossed out 95% of DNA calling it junk, and lets face it Richard IF folks with scopes had not told you and me about dark matter we would still be in the dark about dark matter and dark energy.

Of course - and for that matter, there may not be any such thing! There may be some other explanation for the deviation from the mathematical predictions. And that brings up the fundamental problem with your entire body of assertions. It contains NO PREDICTIONS. It is entirely untestable. It's all post-hoc pattern finding which seems mostly vain to me. If the facts were different, you'd just make up a different story or ignore them. It's nothing like science that makes theories to explain and predict observations. But you write like it is science. That's what makes it pseudo-science.



I can safely say I know important things about the universe Einstein did NOT know.

And you don't know much that he knew. So what's the point?




I've long been partial to the number 44 since I had the Dumbo dream in which a woman said said "Are you looking for Dumbo? 12 x 44." The product is 528 = KEY (maphte'ach) in Hebrew, as in Isaiah 22:22.
I also have long been partial to KEY 528 after first reading about it in one of Bonnie Gaunt's book.

Bonnie's books were monuments to bullshit. They are filled with errors from beginning to end.



Here is another coincidence....RaphaEL the archangEL who knows about angLEs was born at 5:28 am. :yo:

Nice birth-time.

Why ruin it with more random emphasis upon the meaningless occurrence of the letters "EL"?



And if you google do a search using just the terms 'KEY 528', guess what?
Your site is #1 followed by six (6) entries of mine.

Not surprising!



But Richard IF you add the search term DNA to KEY 528, guess what?
Your site no longer shows up on front page.
But my blogs dominate the IDEA that DNA KEY 528 are associated!

Oh .. that breaks my heart. :p



And I am glad you brought up 528.
What Tarot sources do you use to support your gibberish?
Two of mine, of many, I use to support my gibberish are Papus and C.C. Zain.
In both of these Tarot sources you will find an image of a KEY.
(Postel offers a third image of a key...)

And what you did not know about the KEY 528 is that there is actually a KEY that highlights the 528, only the teeth are not in that order.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Alchemy/KEYtoOccultScienceCCZainFoundationofScience-2.jpg

This KEY's tEEth highlights the LION 5, EAGLE 8, and the BULL 2
And if you ever do visit this link that I keep posting for your benefit, have a look around ... many AHA to be found.
:yo: http://at37.wordpress.com/2012/02/23/windmills-swastikas-seeds/


The KEY got it wrong! It doesn't follow the 3 + 1 pattern. The Lion, Bull, Man (Matt, Mark, Luke) are terrestrial, whereas the Eagle (John) flies.

Of course, I can see why they got it wrong. They probably thought that the Man was different than the other three which were animals. But that's a fundamental misunderstanding of the symbolism.

And as for your finding the 11 8 2 5 pattern everywehre - two words: selection bias.




http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/PrecessionStepValancesrotations.jpghttp://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/PrecessionStep3-1.jpg?t=1253574052

Btw the basic structure of my bullseye 4 AGES modEL looks very much like yours and so many others.
It is a Wheel with 3 levels or concentric rings.
It is NOT so unique as I found out.

The concept of "so unique" is oxymoronic. Unique means one of a kind.



The earliest bible wheel modEL I have managed to find goes back to about 5000 BCE.
Your bible wheel is based on 66 or 22, 22, 22.
My model has 22 on the first level, 26 on the second, 30 on the third for a total of 78.

1 4 7 10 = 22
2 5 8 11 = 26 = YHVH
3 6 9 12 = 30

A total that resembles the Tarot and surpasses the New and Old compilation by 12.
Hey maybe another *New Improved* testament needs to be added?

The difference between your work and mine is that I didn't make up stuff and manipulate things to fit a pattern. I merely rolled up the Bible as it was received from history. That makes all the difference in the world. Any patterns that it reveals were not put there by me. You pattern was made up by you and so it reveals nothing but your own creativity.



It would make sense, just like the New Testament added to the Old Testament around 2000 years ago, maybe another 12 chapters needs to be added during this Age of Aquarius?

Sure you can make up whatever you want. But why then would you think it had any more significance than the free art made up by anyone else? It certainly does not rank on the level of DISCOVERY like the Bible Wheel.



12 science chapters to go along with all of that NEW and OLD bIbLE babel?
What if the sin-thesis is not quite done yet?
History suggests I AM correct and a static bIbLE is in peril.

How could your private inventions imperil the Bible? Who would change it to fit your ideas?

The bible is in peril for quite another reason. Or rather, the fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible, since it contains demonstrable error.



What 12 are missing?
Here is a clue.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/SATOR%20SQUARE/SeferRaziel12constellations-1-1.pnghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Telephone-keypad.svg/200px-Telephone-keypad.svg.png

Is that a KEY pad? :eek:


Like I said - you appear to be obsessed with random superficial similarities fished out of the ocean of all possibilities.



Richard it is obvious that a potential theory of everything would need to be able to reconcile religion and science too, and that will not happen until science gets a grip on how the two hemispheres of the mind operates in conjunction with the heart and its environment.

Yes, and it would be as scientifically precise and principled as Quantum Physics. Your work is nothing like that, so it is absurd to call it a theory of everything.



Richard can your religion provide me proof of Adam, i.e. do you have a picture?

I don't have a religion and Adam is a myth. What are you babbling about?



Richard can your science provide me proof of the Atom, i.e. do you have a picture of an atom to prove your science is true blue?

You were demanding I provide you with a theory of everything, that included electro-magnetism and gravity, can you give me a modEL for one measly atom please. :yo:


It's already been done. Open any QM book.

All the best,

Richard

[Raphael]

When you reject theism, how can it be that you don't reject "all of that?"


oh I forgot we are being recorded.
I can reject theism and still accept some of its ideas.
I can reject all BS beliefs and still accept some of it to be true, can't I?

do I need to take all the bait?



It all looks like random associations to me. Why Matthew 1:18-25

Simple formula birth of cycle = 1:18-25 = CARD X is an algorithm called phi = 1, 1, 2, ?, 5, 8

Because like Jesus whose BIRTH is the beginning of a cycle, his birth is depicted in Matthew 1:18-25.
And it just so happens that Freemasonry traces its inception to the beginning of the Age of Taurus around 4000 BCE.

http://i.imgur.com/caQka.jpg

Makes sense to me, but I can understand why it would not make sense to somebody who used to be a bible babbler and appears to be still clinging to some stupid religious ideas mixed in with his new love for science. How many books written on Freemasonry do you own or more importantly have read?

Ever notice that many significant Semitic languages begin with a first letter that means ox.
IMHO around 4000 BCE is also when the self serving BS began.
Another coincidence, I think not.
:lol:



I am utterly unable to discern any PRINCIPLES in your study.


you probably think the zodiac and ancient astrology are bunk?
maybe this is why.
It is really simple when you dispense LITERAL bible nonsense and just adopt a new stance.

12 disciples are 12 signs of the zodiac

Is there any relationship between the 12 tribes, the 12 disciples, the 12 signs of the zodiac?



you can draw whatever you want, but would there be any meaning?


I shall continue to hover around the 12,000+ year old good luck symbol known by many names, i.e. YHVH/tetragrammaton/swastika, along with the number 137 because Richard Feynman told me to worry about it (because I am a good theorist) and linking DNA to all of the above and what is to follow would be a smart move too.




We apparently have different concepts of what constitutes "proof."


True, you seem to reject more evidence than I do, as a reformed Christian you have become quite the grim reaper.
Is a scythe asymmetrical?



Yes, the specific doctrine of the Trinity that was devised to answer the verses in the Bible is unique. I've never seen anything like they hypostatic union outside of Christianity.


who cares, it is all just a BS theory remember?
Not to be taken literally....unless you add some figurative reckoning I reckon.
religion is not a science, though science has become a religion.

could you please give me an analogy using science for what a hypotatic union means to me, a potential non-believer, because the wiki definition made no sense to me, I need to believe in a literal Christ to get it.



But if you are going to import Biblical terminology, you will need to define it so folks don't CONFUSE it with the traditional meanings.

ROFL
Which one?
I mean which tainted version with accompanying translation is peachy keen with you?
Stop it Richard you are cracking me up now.
After 2000 years have we managed to get religions to believe in the same thing?
But I need to come clean on the bible lingo that everybody agrees on?

I am still waiting for an answer for why YHVH got rubbed out of far too may bibles to the tune of over 6800 times? :eek:
Or do I need to spell it out using appropriate bible lingo?



And tautologies are tautological!



http://www.alef.net/ALEFThings/Swastikas/RevolvingDoorBerlin.Gif


...YES but didn't you know that the double turnstile notation = S is used to indicate that S is a tautology.

Have you ever noticed the swastika technology called a revolving door?

The swastika has you coming and going, and you are not even aware of it Richard, and that is yet another fact I can bank on with CHASE.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bH10XP3vybQ/TfRCBGnqDQI/AAAAAAAABko/3sna4BfKj8c/s1600/chase-bank-swastika-logo-hidden-logo-666-secret-logo-nazi-logo-nazi-hidden.jpg

It is the symbol that has been vEILed in plain view my friend.
Because it is IMPOSSIBLE to HIDE nature, you can only vEIL it with BS narratives that defy and defILE nature.

That is so obvious, it is funny.



I'm familiar with the Hindu trinity, but I doubt Lao Tse with is Tao, Duality, and Ten Thousand things captures the same concept.


Really what is the 10,000 things in the east.
Bet I can show a connection to the value of the swastika in the east = 10,000?
I would bet 10K that the swastika means 10,000 in some Asian countries.



It seems you are often taken in by meaningless supErfIciaL simiLarItiEs.


I have proven my point time and again Richard, especially regarding the swastika.

ANYTHING JESUS can do, the SWASTIKA can do better, and in fact did for 10,000 years before the archetypal Jesus made his appearance.
I agree he is fake and made up.
So what does he really represent?

I personally think MOST narratives default to precession of the equinoxes.

re: ultimate MEME supremacy of the swastika
It is truly a symbol so powerful you would need to vEIL it with bible babel, the BIGGER the LIE the better, this is how it verks comrade.

Until you can provide me with any symbol that better represents all of the following because it can be shown the swastika is profoundly connected to these concepts.
i.e. SPACE TIME MOTION or the SUN, MOON, STARS or WRATHFUL acts of NATURE by YHVH or its geometric equal that makes energy more efficient or any other symbol that we can link to the Great Pyramid, like we can the swastika .... Richard at the end of the day, it is your beliefs that appear kinda questionable, and your science is constantly being HUMBLED by swastika technology....starting with simple techologies like a windmill ... now we have NANO LIGHT MILLS that can manipulate our DNA, and you say it is all worthy of being ignored and dissed for how much longer, for how much longer are the gifts of god/nature whatever going to be vEILed and used against us....?

Lordy Lordy YHWH swastika tetragrammaton Gott, please forgive the ignorant for using your technologies in vain. :winking0071:
They have no IDEA what they do in their ignorance, IMHO this is how the Christian and the Scienctist epitaph reads at the end of the daze dude.



The world is full of bullshit, and you are making outrageous claims that don't really match the meanings of the words you are using.
So I simply speak what I see as best I can. You find it frustrating because your collection of factoids lack coherence.

I could bury you with factoids about the swastika.
And that is a fact that is not outrageous, just a fact of life these past 12,000+ years.
It would make a wonderful narrative.
Man, Plato's Atlantis, swastika, the woolly mammoth and woolly sheeple all co-existed about 10,000 BCE.
Jesus does not show up for 10,000 years....
And scientists do not migrate up from the pond scum for yet another 1500 years after that.

And the swastika is a non-issue?
ROFL

You just proved why another Hitler is always on the horizon dude.
Take a bow Richard.

I can prove they can push the same buttons again and again as long as attitudes like yours are in existence.
The same ole' swastika buttons using the same ole' propaganda campaigns.

Only now they can tweeter the twats to coalesce into a KONY 2012 BLACK WHITE RED MOB.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/BLACK%20WHITE%20and%20RED/KONY2012_YouthCampBLACKWHITERED.jpg

Here we have a brand new batch of ignorant numb and dumb humans who are clueless to the bigger corporate agenda.
http://at37.wordpress.com/2012/03/18/alchemy-black-white-red/




science is based on logic and facts. Do you really think they are in any way "equal?"


I can show you 2 pictures I show people when I give lectures.
Everybody else can see it plain as day...

The blueprint for CERN was in the mind of man 400 years ago.
Clearly CERN is built using QaBaLaH and/or alchemy inspirations.

That is another factoid science cannot deal with.



There is a world of difference between what you are doing and real science. And COME ON MAN! You can't not know this! Nothing you write is anything like a science or mathematics textbook.


Sure it is.
Just not the science books you read.



That's not me. I don't preach god no more.


You preach a new brand of science that rejects more than it knows.



And I am open to anything that can be established with logic and facts, and I'm even open to mystical intuitions.


After you are finished giving me YOUR sketch of what YOU think or feel an atom looks like, please draw a line in the sand between the visible and the invisible realms and show me where logic ends and the metaphysical begins?
Your logic is limited by your science and its technology.

Hundreds of years ago our LOGIC at that time could not accept how we live today.
In other words dude, science logic is like an anchor sometimes.
Just another science FAIL Richard, science forgets it is on a learning curve.




But you are mixing it all together in a way that is totally idiosyncratic and fruitless because you have no principles, no foundation. You have presented nothing for me to believe even if I wanted to! It's like you are posting your private dream journal. It is opaque to everyone but you.


I wonder how long it would take for me to find negative comments about this site and its silly biblical claims?
Eh?



It contains NO PREDICTIONS. It is entirely untestable.


I was predicting that the Higgs boson would have SOUND signatures attached to it long before CERN started posting them. :winking0071:

God particle signal is simulated as sound
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10385675




It's all post-hoc pattern finding which seems mostly vain to me. If the facts were different, you'd just make up a different story or ignore them. It's nothing like science that makes theories to explain and predict observations. But you write like it is science. That's what makes it pseudo-science.


CERN is based on what you would call psuedo science.
2 pictures is all I need to prove that.



And you don't know much that he knew. So what's the point?


Yes but what separates me from Einstein is the fact he was IGNORANT about the 4 forces of physics being asymmetrical.
That is why he did not offer much for the last 25 years of his life.




Bonnie's books were monuments to bullshit. They are filled with errors from beginning to end.


Was she wrong about the value of the word KEY = 528?
Was she wrong about having a fascination with 37?




Nice birth-time.

Why ruin it with more random emphasis upon the meaningless occurrence of the letters "EL"?


Ruin it?
I can add to it.
July 3, 1957 or 7319 - 57

That is just starters.
You can derive the numbers 11 2 5 8 out of my birthdate 3 july 1957 too.

And I was registered with the cosmos as 073190 :eek:

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/SATOR%20SQUARE/7319MeBirthCertificate-2.jpg

And you probably did not see it Richard because you are blind to the obvious.
I have spoken about the 137-69 code for quite some time...on other forums...going back to last year.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Codex4/4%20AGES%20Models%20DNA/137-96/RevelationofthePyramids299792458speedoflightinmill ionsofmeterspersecond.jpg

In this image ONE calculation you cannot refute is the speed of light as posted.

299,792,458

I will never ever forget that number now because of YOU!
I would suggest the ignorant ignore the 299.

we are left with 792468

79 okay
24 = 6
58 = 13

79613 or 137-69 :lol:




It doesn't follow the 3 + 1 pattern. The Lion, Bull, Man (Matt, Mark, Luke) are terrestrial, whereas the Eagle (John) flies.


http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Tarot52811.jpg

Did you notice that the MAN is on the Stem of the KEY?

The EAGLE 8 and MAN 11 can swap positions btw, it is a typical Golden Dawn suggestion.
And physics using clues from the Tarot might be able to explain why.

That is an elementary move dude.
Card 11 JUSTICE and Card 8 STRENGTH can swap positions!

Take a look at CARDS 2, 5, 8, and 11 of the Waite deck.
They all have pillars except Card 8....which remember was switched for CARD 11.

And 2 and 5 in the south fit nicely with the Female Pope Card 2 and the Pope/Hierophant Card 5
And maybe the next time they speak of Upper and Lower Egypt being unified maybe CARD X will ring a BELL?

Maybe, maybe not.

You never did share what TAROT book you call your bible?



And as for your finding the 11 8 2 5 pattern everywehre - two words: selection bias.


ROFL sorry dude but you cannot claim to be JUDGE and JURY when you have NOT seen all the evidence.
Here is the evidence because clearly I was overwhelmed by the coincidences!
Here ya go.
9 pages of selection bias.
http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5228&highlight=



The difference between your work and mine is that I didn't make up stuff and manipulate things to fit a pattern. I merely rolled up the Bible as it was received from history.


ROFL

do you know what cabala/kabbala/qabalah means?

It means 'to receive'.

Do you know where the word QaBaLaH comes from?
The word Qibbel.

ROFL

Qibbel has the word bible in it.

ROFL

So what does a true mystic 'receive'?

Information about Qibbel and bits?

ROFL

Information about the cosmic code 137 obviously.



That makes all the difference in the world. Any patterns that it reveals were not put there by me. You pattern was made up by you and so it reveals nothing but your own creativity.


Yup 137 was put here by me.....

ROFL



Sure you can make up whatever you want. But why then would you think it had any more significance than the free art made up by anyone else? It certainly does not rank on the level of DISCOVERY like the Bible Wheel.


Hey I have NO problem matching my ego to yours.

My linking the SATOR SQUARE (Solomons treasure?) to Roger Penrose/Ed Witten's Twistor String theory makes your bible wheel vortex look elementary and like true bible babel even supported by bible babel quotations.

Richard you offer the world a Bible Wheel site and then you dis the very foundation of what it is based on, the Bible?
How does that make you a winner?

Are you claiming your Bible Wheel Vortex reconciles religion and science?



The bible is in peril for quite another reason. Or rather, the fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible, since it contains demonstrable error.

Like I said - you appear to be obsessed with random superficial similarities fished out of the ocean of all possibilities.


Glad you said that.
Oh I forgot to mention I am starting up a tour company too post 2012 idiocy.
We visit Judaeo/Christian sites and start digging around for evidence of pagan swastika cultures buried under bible babel.
Can I advertise on your site to take bIbLE truth seekers on a SHOCK and AWE tour of the REAL world?

Name the most common cross carried by pagans while Jesus was walking on water Richard?
You do realize it was the swastika?
:winking0071:




Open any QM book.

All the best,

Richard

I really would love to see what Richard thinks an atom looks like?
All I want is a picture of what you think an atom looks like with an brief explanation of the parts.

I went to all the trouble of drawing a 2 and 5 for you. :yo:
See how blind you were to the obvious?
What else are you and me missing?

Science is based on observations, what have they observed?
Science has had 2000+ years to come up with a modEL of the atom.
There have been various incarnations of the atom as we have tried to define it....how many incarnations did Vishnu have?

Well what does the 'current' modEL of an atom look like, just to put us back on track with the topic of the title of the thread, is the hydrogen atom symmetrical?
My educated guess based on seeking out patterns (what's math got to do with it?) would suggest the hydrogen atom is not symmetrical.

I can hardly wait to see what you sketch for me.

cheers,

namaste

RaphaEL

[Richard Amiel McGough]

oh I forgot we are being recorded.
I can reject theism and still accept some of its ideas.
I can reject all BS beliefs and still accept some of it to be true, can't I?

Yes, of course. But if you don't make your meaning clear, don't be surprised that I am confused by what you mean.




It all looks like random associations to me. Why Matthew 1:18-25
Simple formula birth of cycle = 1:18-25 = CARD X is an algorithm called phi = 1, 1, 2, ?, 5, 8

It doesn't look like a real "algorithm." It looks like yet another example of post hoc pattern fitting which is meaningless.

Real science and real algorithms make predictions that can be tested. You are just gathering random bits and pieces from an infinite ocean of random data and using that to make up your own patterns. There is no sense of authentic "discovery" in your methodology. Sorry, that's just how it seems to me. The real question is this: Can you understand the reasons for my comments? I get the impression you do not understand at all because you are not responding to the comments that I now have repeated many times.



Because like Jesus whose BIRTH is the beginning of a cycle, his birth is depicted in Matthew 1:18-25.
And it just so happens that Freemasonry traces its inception to the beginning of the Age of Taurus around 4000 BCE.

Genesis is the beginning of the ultimate cycle, but Genesis 1:18-25 doesn't fit your pattern. It all looks arbitrary, and nothing you have written employs any PRINCIPLES that characterize SCIENCE. But you constantly pretend that you patterns are just like real science, and that's why it's pseudo-science.



Makes sense to me, but I can understand why it would not make sense to somebody who used to be a bible babbler and appears to be still clinging to some stupid religious ideas mixed in with his new love for science. How many books written on Freemasonry do you own or more importantly have read?

That's hilarious. You always devolve into stupid name calling like "bible babbler" when your irrational claims are exposed for what they are. And my love for science is not "new." I have degrees in Mathematics and Physics.

You claims are fundamentally irrational. And you go about claiming to be the Archangel Raphael. And you constantly emphasis meaningless patterns of supErfIciaL simiLarItiEs as if they were significant. And you ignore the principles of science while trying to imitate science. There's plenty of signs of paranoid schizophrenia.



Ever notice that many significant Semitic languages begin with a first letter that means ox.
IMHO around 4000 BCE is also when the self serving BS began.
Another coincidence, I think not.
:lol:

I agree - you "think not." You should try it for a change.

In your world, every random scrap of confetti that can be pasted in your collage is obviously "not a coincidence."



you probably think the zodiac and ancient astrology are bunk?

I never said nor implied that. But your application of it may well be bunk. How would you know? You have no principles. You have no way to test if anything you say is true or false. You just collect random factoids and paste them into a "pattern" that you then claim - post hoc - to be "obviously not a coincidence."



It is really simple when you dispense LITERAL bible nonsense and just adopt a new stance.

It has nothing to do with figurative vs. literal.



12 disciples are 12 signs of the zodiac

Is there any relationship between the 12 tribes, the 12 disciples, the 12 signs of the zodiac?

The Jews have a tradition that associates the 12 tribes with the 12 signs. So what?

Your assertion that they are one and the same is absurd. The correlation is weak at best.


I shall continue to hover around the 12,000+ year old good luck symbol known by many names, i.e. YHVH/tetragrammaton/swastika, along with the number 137 because Richard Feynman told me to worry about it (because I am a good theorist) and linking DNA to all of the above and what is to follow would be a smart move too.

That's fine. I haven't said you shouldn't. I'm merely explaining the intellectual shortcomings of your presentation. You are pretending that the patterns you find/invent are connected somehow to fundamental physics. But that's a joke of the first order. Your ideas are very disordered, unprincipled, and undisciplined, whereas science is the epitome of order and principle and discipline. You have not THEORY of any kind that makes any kind of testable predictions. Your claims are pseudo-science.




We apparently have different concepts of what constitutes "proof."
True, you seem to reject more evidence than I do, as a reformed Christian you have become quite the grim reaper.
Is a scythe asymmetrical?

I am not a "grim reaper." I am merely explaining things that would be obvious to anyone familiar with the rigors of logic and science and truth and reality. You are playing games with random patterns, but you don't even know what you are doing.

Your obsession with the word "asymmetry" is just as meaningless as everything else. I tried reasoning with you about real science and the meaning of symmetry and asymmetry long ago and you proved yourself quite ignorant of the topic and unwilling to have a rational discourse about it.




Yes, the specific doctrine of the Trinity that was devised to answer the verses in the Bible is unique. I've never seen anything like they hypostatic union outside of Christianity.
who cares, it is all just a BS theory remember?

Your comment is irrational. You asserted that the Trinity was common outside of Christianity and I proved you wrong. The intelligent response would have been to admit the truth, but you don't appear to be interested in that.



could you please give me an analogy using science for what a hypotatic union means to me, a potential non-believer, because the wiki definition made no sense to me, I need to believe in a literal Christ to get it.

Of course not. The hypostatic union is bullshit. But it's essential to the Trinity which you claimed was common outside of Christianity. You don't seem to follow logic at all. Seriously. You make random non-sequitur comments in response to my reasoned statements.




But if you are going to import Biblical terminology, you will need to define it so folks don't CONFUSE it with the traditional meanings.
ROFL
Which one?
I mean which tainted version with accompanying translation is peachy keen with you?
Stop it Richard you are cracking me up now.
After 2000 years have we managed to get religions to believe in the same thing?
But I need to come clean on the bible lingo that everybody agrees on?

Then why use that langauge if you have no idea what it means? That is simply insane. Irrational. Nuts. I'm guessing now that this is all a game to you. You have no meaning that you are trying to communication. Just random jumbles of undefined terms. You don't even know what you mean when you write!



I am still waiting for an answer for why YHVH got rubbed out of far too may bibles to the tune of over 6800 times? :eek:
Or do I need to spell it out using appropriate bible lingo?

He didn't. You have been misinformed. There are a few examples of a few occurrences of YHVH in some mss of the Greek NT, but nothing to justify the claim of 6800 occurrences rubbed out.

But even if they were, so what? There could be any number of reasons, most notably the tradition of the Jews that forbade the speaking (and often writing) of the name. You now sound like a conspiracy theorist, you know.



Have you ever noticed the swastika technology called a revolving door?

Swastika "techonology" - :lmbo:

Get over yourself already. You are stuck in stone-age techonology.

Nothing you have written has any power like real science. It's all just random ramblings. But you don't understand that.



The swastika has you coming and going, and you are not even aware of it Richard, and that is yet another fact I can bank on with CHASE.

More post hoc random associations. You have no concept of principled reasoning.



It is the symbol that has been vEILed in plain view my friend.
Because it is IMPOSSIBLE to HIDE nature, you can only vEIL it with BS narratives that defy and defILE nature.

That is so obvious, it is funny.

Yes, it's utterly hilarious (in a pathetic sort of way) that you emphasise the letters L, I, and E, in every word you find them.



Really what is the 10,000 things in the east.
Bet I can show a connection to the value of the swastika in the east = 10,000?
I would bet 10K that the swastika means 10,000 in some Asian countries.

I know you could make up a connection between anything with anything. But would the connections have any kind of real meaning? Nope. It's an obsession. A mental disease. And you can't understand no matter how plainly it is explained because you don't want to see.




It seems you are often taken in by meaningless supErfIciaL simiLarItiEs.
I have proven my point time and again Richard, especially regarding the swastika.

You have never even stated your "point" with any clarity, let alone proven it.



ANYTHING JESUS can do, the SWASTIKA can do better, and in fact did for 10,000 years before the archetypal Jesus made his appearance.
I agree he is fake and made up.
So what does he really represent?

What a load of BULLSHIT! The "swastika" can't do anything. What are you babbling about?

Or what, can the swastika preach the sermon on the mount in Aramaic? Do you have any clue about the meaning words? Your assertions are just utterly nutterly.



I personally think MOST narratives default to precession of the equinoxes.

re: ultimate MEME supremacy of the swastika
It is truly a symbol so powerful you would need to vEIL it with bible babel, the BIGGER the LIE the better, this is how it verks comrade.

Until you can provide me with any symbol that better represents all of the following because it can be shown the swastika is profoundly connected to these concepts.
i.e. SPACE TIME MOTION or the SUN, MOON, STARS or WRATHFUL acts of NATURE by YHVH or its geometric equal that makes energy more efficient or any other symbol that we can link to the Great Pyramid, like we can the swastika .... Richard at the end of the day, it is your beliefs that appear kinda questionable, and your science is constantly being HUMBLED by swastika technology....starting with simple techologies like a windmill ... now we have NANO LIGHT MILLS that can manipulate our DNA, and you say it is all worthy of being ignored and dissed for how much longer, for how much longer are the gifts of god/nature whatever going to be vEILed and used against us....?

I gotta get me some utterly nutterly smilies. Your comments deserve them.



Lordy Lordy YHWH swastika tetragrammaton Gott, please forgive the ignorant for using your technologies in vain. :winking0071:
They have no IDEA what they do in their ignorance, IMHO this is how the Christian and the Scienctist epitaph reads at the end of the daze dude.

Why don't you try to state things in a way that has some meaning to people not living inside your head? As it is, your comments are meaningless.




The world is full of bullshit, and you are making outrageous claims that don't really match the meanings of the words you are using.
So I simply speak what I see as best I can. You find it frustrating because your collection of factoids lack coherence.
I could bury you with factoids about the swastika.

You've already done that. But you have ZERO understanding about how to communicate a rational thesis.



And that is a fact that is not outrageous, just a fact of life these past 12,000+ years.
It would make a wonderful narrative.
Man, Plato's Atlantis, swastika, the woolly mammoth and woolly sheeple all co-existed about 10,000 BCE.
Jesus does not show up for 10,000 years....
And scientists do not migrate up from the pond scum for yet another 1500 years after that.

And the swastika is a non-issue?
ROFL

You are writing like a raving lunatic. Your words are meaningless. I couldn't believe you if I wanted to becuase you are utterly incoherent.



You just proved why another Hitler is always on the horizon dude.
Take a bow Richard.

I can prove they can push the same buttons again and again as long as attitudes like yours are in existence.
The same ole' swastika buttons using the same ole' propaganda campaigns.

Why do you continue to spout meaningless babble? Have you no sense of reality at all?




Only now they can tweeter the twats to coalesce into a KONY 2012 BLACK WHITE RED MOB.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/BLACK%20WHITE%20and%20RED/KONY2012_YouthCampBLACKWHITERED.jpg

Here we have a brand new batch of ignorant numb and dumb humans who are clueless to the bigger corporate agenda.
http://at37.wordpress.com/2012/03/18/alchemy-black-white-red/

Oh my! Another superficial similarity that your paranoid schizophrenic brain interprets as another "sign" of whatever it is you think it means.

As long as you fail to make any testable predictions, your random associations will mean nothing.



I can show you 2 pictures I show people when I give lectures.
Everybody else can see it plain as day...

The blueprint for CERN was in the mind of man 400 years ago.
Clearly CERN is built using QaBaLaH and/or alchemy inspirations.

That is another factoid science cannot deal with.

No ... that's another superficial similarity that your broken brain is misinterpreting.

Well, that's enough for me. I just got done with another babbler who claimed to be the Messenger of the Covenant and Queen of the South with more wisdom than Solomon. I've had enough. You have proven yourself utterly immune to all rationality.

Have a nice day.

Richard

[Raphael]

Yes, of course. But if you don't make your meaning clear, don't be surprised that I am confused by what you mean.


It doesn't look like a real "algorithm." It looks like yet another example of post hoc pattern fitting which is meaningless.


1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8

oops I should have said logarithm.
A good teacher (you) would have noticed the flub and corrected me instead of saying my contribution is meaningless.
Everybody with a math and physics degree knows fibonacci/phi is a logarithm.

The 2000 year old Sator Square which predates Christianity is an algorithm. :winking0071:
Can't say there is any point in showing it to you dude.



I get the impression you do not understand at all because you are not responding to the comments that I now have repeated many times.


I know you do NOT get it dude. I had to draw you a 2 and 5 in the center of a spiral. geesh.
I knew right then and there poor ole' Richard, the flip flop who has traded in his blinders for a cane is no Einstein or Escher.
(yes Escher tapped into swastika geometry too, geesh I need to enlighten the art world too??)



Genesis is the beginning of the ultimate cycle, but Genesis 1:18-25 doesn't fit your pattern.

Exactly I never said it did.
Was I suggesting Jesus' birth documented in Matthew 1:18-25 was a reference to Precession and the phi spiral. YES.
But I never said Jesus' birth was the ultimate cycle...did I?
You are putting words into my mouth.

Here is what I will say about Genesis that is over your head, but can be found deep inside of you.
Genesis is a Gene-the-sis
Yes it is a gene thesis.

And like I suggested DNA is the Holy Grail, a 3.5 billion year old aLIEn life form and we have really only studied about 95% of it?
And the sheeple worry about aLIENs?
ROFL
We are so ignorant.

And Daniel is a reference to DANIEL err I mean DNAI37.

Russian scientists are showing Junk DNA carries language syntax, which I want to suggest is helping to lead humanity back to a unification, eventually, in spite of ignorance.
Everything has been written, and it probably is hiding in our Junk. :lol:




It all looks arbitrary, and nothing you have written employs any PRINCIPLES that characterize SCIENCE. But you constantly pretend that you patterns are just like real science, and that's why it's pseudo-science.

FSC is science.
And just because you do not understand how e^2 could be pairs of animals entering a 137 meter Ark is not my problem.
It is obviously yours.




That's hilarious. You always devolve into stupid name calling like "bible babbler" when your irrational claims are exposed for what they are. And my love for science is not "new." I have degrees in Mathematics and Physics.


bible babbler, sheeple, and ignorant are a few of my favorite words.
they are generic terms, I just put them out there to see if they stick.
and it is interesting to note from where I stand to see who steps forward and says 'hey I resemble that remark and take offence'.
I win immediately, but am the loser in the long run. :winking0071:



You claims are fundamentally irrational. And you go about claiming to be the Archangel Raphael.

I AM what I AM
I realized I had a part to play when I found out that RaphaEL the archangEL is in fact associated esoterically with the swastika.
And considering I had already made profound connections between asymmetrical DNA and asymetrical swastika, I thought hey why not, maybe the swastika can heal the world?

The two-bit part of RaphaEL the archangel was available, I recognized that.
The rest will be history dude.
The name Raphael associated with the swastika will live on, because it has already been written.
All I did was try on the Hugo Boss designed Nazi uniform, and it fit to a 'T'. But I have found a new application for it.
Duh get with the program dude, you are missing out on a much grander game. :yo:

p.s. The part of Jesus is available.
Do you have what it takes to try on the robe as king to come?




And you constantly emphasis meaningless patterns of supErfIciaL simiLarItiEs as if they were significant. And you ignore the principles of science while trying to imitate science. There's plenty of signs of paranoid schizophrenia.


Usually after ignorance takes offence to the things I say, it is not long before they reply I am crazy or schizophrenic.
ROFL
Ignorance does NOT know I have been speaking with a shrink since '97 when my marriage was ending. I went to get help with marriage counselling.

Fast forward to 2012, the marriage counselling ended around 2001 when I got a divorce. But I continued to use the PhD shrink as a sounding board for my novel noble NOBEL ideas, that I have been TRYING to share with you.
ROFL now I understand Lord how truth can be right in front of ignorance and it gets 'ignored'.

So what did my shrink suggest that last time I spoke with him?
He told me to take a vacation, go to Ireland for a month, and start writing my book, and one more thing, he wants to come along and help me write my book.
He says my research, there is nothing like it. It is rather unique.

http://worldviewu.org/images/judaism/yarmulke.jpg

What does my shrink friend who has the initials JC look like?
He looks something like this...typical 'Jew with a PhD'.
I went to him and suggested he write to 'Ed Witten the Jew with a PhD' on my behalf, the nobody, the goyim golem.
Get it?
I doubt you do Richard.

I am connected to bible babel that is beyond what you can comprehend. Because long ago you bought the farm called Christianity, died and went to some kind of distorted heaven and guess what, you never really did sell the farm. You still appear kinda 'dead' to the obvious.

I AM a true blue mystic, I can feel it in my bones. And one day if we should meet I will share a mind over matter parlor trick that seems to impress 'we the sheeple' :pray: Here I AM doing battle with a former bible babbler who now eats science dogma for breakfast instead of prayer?
A real turn around of events.
Stop it....you are insulting yourself and cheapening the depth of the creation too at the same time, you fool.
I can see why you place the Fool in the #one position of the tarot, NOT everybody puts the FOOL first.
But you go ahead take that step.

Its all connected, everything, in spite of what you might believe, on your way DOWN....
duh is all I can say to your BS science that cannot prove we are all connected.
but then again it is you who claims a degree in math and physics and yet you have yet to draw me a picture of ONE measly atom?
FAIL
A link would even do to an image of what you beLIEve an atom/adam looks like.

Richard you flipped from a belief where Jesus was divine to where you agree Jesus is BS (not one person thought to sketch the son of god eh?), and the flop continued to a belief that can not draw me a picture of a hydrogen atom?
So where is that image of the atom that everybody in your religion called science can agree on?

And may I remind you that I have presented you with countless images of swastikas beginning around 10,000 BCE, and I can illustrate how its applications can be used for FEAR, LOVE, and energy efficiency....
And the former bible babbler who used to believe in miracles is now using the TOOL called science and now he sees nothing when presented with overwhelming swastika evidence?
ROFL

I would suggest that we can use the two swastikas to represent the electron and its anti- particle, the positron.
I have more REAL proof of my evolving theory than you do dude of the boy blunder who really left only wonders, no science formulas, and science the new religion, called quantum mechanics....
As a matter of fact your Bible Wheel and Vortex default to concepts like the Kalachakra or a spiraling Wheel of Time or if we go back far enough, the cw vs. ccw swastika.

Richard the new religion you bought into is infested with wankers like Charles DUHwin and Richard DUHkins.
BTW the math and science proofs that you demand from me regarding a theory of everything re: swastika, is to be found in the engineering designs of the many swastika technologies.
Obvious is it not, one design, an algorithm that is at the heART of of movement.
I can show you swastikas in the Mandelbrot set, are you interested in seeing them?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ivRQDbAduoM

Probably not, but I will post it anyway for anybody with an open MiNd and heART to watch at their leisure.
The Mandelbrot is an algorithm, wait till near the end...from 2:05 onwards we see how the swastika is fractal geometry, self-similarity, SCALING.
Hello is there anybody home at the physicks institute?
Therefore the swastika is obviously an algorithm herr mister math/physics expert. I am NOT impressed.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/Codex4/Sacred%20Swastika%20Science/CLiungmantetraskelevssauvastika-1.jpg

As a matter of fact as my swastika algorithm goes, it is in the Mandelbrot we see very teeny tiny swirly twirly swastikas that look just like the SYMBOL USED FOR REPEAT in music.
hahaha too funny, even the music of the spheres defaults to swastika repeats, or shall we say Judeao Christians reBLEATing the same ole looney tunes?


Btw please think back to your righteous days, what kind of math and science knowledge did the big LIE Jesus leave us?
Can you or anybody explain the 2 Fish and 5 Loaves miracle better than Marko Rodin's VBM which is based on the numbers 2 and 5?
Nope.
And you jumping up and down like a little kid Richard saying Marko R offers nothing IS NOT SCIENCE dude, it is an opinion.

Too funny the former fence sitting Ralph who became the archangEL RaphaEL carrying a big swastika schtick has to berate you, the former bible babbler into seeing the light, the magic.
Life is strange eh?
I think it is great.
I found a trinity of trees in Eden.
The Tree of Knowledge
The Tree of Life
The PoeTree




I agree - you "think not." You should try it for a change.

In your world, every random scrap of confetti that can be pasted in your collage is obviously "not a coincidence."


Now you got it.
There are no coincidences, everything is unified.
So religion was a FAIL Richard, science is not serving you much better.

What will be next?
Can I suggest 'Shaman U'.
Do ayahusaca (DMT), and tell me what kind of geometric visions you have Plato.



I never said nor implied that. But your application of it may well be bunk. How would you know? You have no principles. You have no way to test if anything you say is true or false. You just collect random factoids and paste them into a "pattern" that you then claim - post hoc - to be "obviously not a coincidence."


Sounds like science and religion eh?
I can see how that might frustrate somebody like you who is OBVIOUSLY struggling with defining the two concepts as separate.
ROFL

It is you who needs to see a good shrink.




The Jews have a tradition that associates the 12 tribes with the 12 signs. So what?

Your assertion that they are one and the same is absurd. The correlation is weak at best.


http://cosmosandpsyche.authorfriendly.com/Photos/CosmosAndPsyche/Photo_53_1102.jpg

Another of my books that suggests you Richard are the one that is spewing a mish mash of nonsense.

Richard Tarnas would like you to attend his university course regarding astrology.

He says you with your BS math and physics degree has no right to dis his degree that shows the importance of astrology.
The day your Bible Wheel bible babel is taught in Universities like his course is Richard is the day you can fill your ego to the max, gloat and float away, is the only way you may ever ascend.




That's fine. I haven't said you shouldn't. I'm merely explaining the intellectual shortcomings of your presentation. You are pretending that the patterns you find/invent are connected somehow to fundamental physics. But that's a joke of the first order.


alpha FSC a.k.a. 1/137 says loud and clear that your last statement is just plain stupid.




Your ideas are very disordered, unprincipled, and undisciplined, whereas science is the epitome of order and principle and discipline. You have not THEORY of any kind that makes any kind of testable predictions. Your claims are pseudo-science.

Draw me a picture of an atom please.
Show me a sketch of the Ark or Jesus please?

It seems it is you who is full of imaginary friends Richard.



Your obsession with the word "asymmetry" is just as meaningless as everything else.


ROFL
Here is where I draw the line.
Here is where I stand up to the bully that is you called IGNORANCE.

Here is a PhD paper criticizing Einstein and ASYMMETRY is the issue.
How Einstein Made Asymmetry Disappear: Symmetry and Relativity in 1905
http://www.myoops.org/twocw/nctu/upload/fourier/supplement/Einstein_symmetry.pdf

ASYMMETRY is important because ALL the building blocks we use are ASYMMETRICAL.
And it figures it would take RaphaEL with a square head Teutonic background to point that out.
Square heads like to use asymmetrical building blocks to build their empires from the ground up....
Duh only a mystic sees the obvious?
We have asymmetrical swastika technologies to help us out in a world that has been designed using asymmetry?
Duh the reason YOU cannot follow along poor ole' king Richard is because you have a LYIN' heart.



I tried reasoning with you about real science and the meaning of symmetry and asymmetry long ago and you proved yourself quite ignorant of the topic and unwilling to have a rational discourse about it.


But is you who are clearly ignorant dude.
You have not a clue about asymmetry and that is laughable considering you claim a degree in physics.
Did you mail away to Mexico for your degree?
I stand my ground and am willing to discuss ASYMMETRY till the cows come home.
It is one of the pillars of my theory of everything, which till now has been lost on you and your cracker jack PhD.
Here is my NOBEL support that says ASYMMETRY on many levels is very important.
:yo: http://at37.wordpress.com/2012/03/27/nobel-prizes-for-graphene-asymmetry-etc/



Your comment is irrational.


Dude I see certain patterns based on 22/7 = 3 1/7.
A pattern embedded into the Great Pyramid....a real mystery still today.

But it is you and your steadfast belief in irrational pi that defines you in a roundabout way.
Even making claims that the Great Pyramid is over rated.
ROFL



the Trinity which you claimed was common outside of Christianity. You don't seem to follow logic at all.

The IDEA of three if found the world over.
And the fact the bible babblers cling to a TRINITY defined long long long after other scripts were written means what?
Damn good creative plagiarism....COPY CAT scriptures...this is obvious to fellas like Joseph Campbell and Tom Harpur...maybe it will be obvious to you one day too?

I will give the folks who sit around all day thinking what to script some credit.
Good verk comrades...




He didn't. You have been misinformed.
There are a few examples of a few occurrences of YHVH in some mss of the Greek NT, but nothing to justify the claim of 6800 occurrences rubbed out.


I can see you refuse to visit sites that will burst your bible bubble and take your science with it down to the abyss of truth.

YOU?
its like flogging a dead horse with a pale rider on it.



But even if they were, so what? There could be any number of reasons, most notably the tradition of the Jews that forbade the speaking (and often writing) of the name. You now sound like a conspiracy theorist, you know.


Remember I made the claim I had connected the HIGGS Boson to SOUND long before CERN posted Higgs sound effects?

Why did I make that claim?
DUH AUM let me think about it.
DUH OM let me think about it a bit longer.
Hmm the INEFFABLE name should not be uttered...DUH let me think about that one for the next 2000 years.

So the son of god has spurned 2000 years of LIGHT WORKER idiocy.
DUH what about the SOUND effects!

Another reason my theory about SOUND is sound. :winking0071:

SOUND waves = maltese cross
LIGHT waves = swastika




Swastika "techonology" - :lmbo:

Get over yourself already. You are stuck in stone-age techonology.


Swastika NANO technology suggests you are blind to the obvious.



Nothing you have written has any power like real science. It's all just random ramblings. But you don't understand that.
More post hoc random associations. You have no concept of principled reasoning.
Yes, it's utterly hilarious (in a pathetic sort of way) that you emphasise the letters L, I, and E, in every word you find them.
I know you could make up a connection between anything with anything. But would the connections have any kind of real meaning? Nope. It's an obsession. A mental disease. And you can't understand no matter how plainly it is explained because you don't want to see.
You have never even stated your "point" with any clarity, let alone proven it.
What a load of BULLSHIT! The "swastika" can't do anything. What are you babbling about?
Or what, can the swastika preach the sermon on the mount in Aramaic? Do you have any clue about the meaning words? Your assertions are just utterly nutterly.
I gotta get me some utterly nutterly smilies. Your comments deserve them.
Why don't you try to state things in a way that has some meaning to people not living inside your head? As it is, your comments are meaningless.
You've already done that. But you have ZERO understanding about how to communicate a rational thesis.
You are writing like a raving lunatic. Your words are meaningless. I couldn't believe you if I wanted to becuase you are utterly incoherent.
Why do you continue to spout meaningless babble? Have you no sense of reality at all?
Oh my! Another superficial similarity that your paranoid schizophrenic brain interprets as another "sign" of whatever it is you think it means.
As long as you fail to make any testable predictions, your random associations will mean nothing.
No ... that's another superficial similarity that your broken brain is misinterpreting.


How about we just sum up all of the above with Ignorance is bliss?



Well, that's enough for me. I just got done with another babbler who claimed to be the Messenger of the Covenant and Queen of the South with more wisdom than Solomon. I've had enough. You have proven yourself utterly immune to all rationality.

Have a nice day.

Richard

Is there an echo in here?
Have a nice day flipping and flopping about like a piscean fish out of water, out of its ELement.

Having to draw the 2 and 5 on those spirals alerted me to the fact you will never get a NOBEL prize for your work mr. flip flop.
But I would award atrophy for your right brain dude, because it has clearly shriveled up.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fn_9f5x0f1Q

Temple Grandin was lucky to avoid the persecution of experts like king Richard.
People like this truly inspire me.
We need more folks like this to help us pull up the anchors called science vs. religion, time to move on Capt. Ahab.

namaste

RaphaEL

http://i.imgur.com/1lz1R.jpg

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Simple formula birth of cycle = 1:18-25 = CARD X is an algorithm called phi = 1, 1, 2, ?, 5, 8
It doesn't look like a real "algorithm." It looks like yet another example of post hoc pattern fitting which is meaningless.


1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8

oops I should have said logarithm.
A good teacher (you) would have noticed the flub and corrected me instead of saying my contribution is meaningless.
Everybody with a math and physics degree knows fibonacci/phi is a logarithm.

You misunderstood my comment. I knew what you meant when you called "1, 1, 2, ?, 5, 8" and "algorithm." The problem is that is it not an "algorithm" - it's just another random association. The "algorithm" itself would be the rule fn+1 = fn + fn-1. that defines the Fibonacci sequence, and from that you could note that phi = lim fn+1/fn. Your assertion that the number sequence 11825 should be associated with that number sequence is just another random association. What meaning or prediction comes of it? It is not an "algorithm" or "logarithm" of any kind.

I get the impression you have no understanding of my criticism of your methodology. Let me state it again - POST HOC pattern fitting is meaningless. Why don't you respond to this criticism?



The 2000 year old Sator Square which predates Christianity is an algorithm. :winking0071:
Can't say there is any point in showing it to you dude.

You are correct - what would be the point of showing me more random associations. You are pretending that your patterns are related to a "theory of everything" but you have not presented any "theory" of any kind. A scientific theory is "a coherent group of tested general propositions that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena: e.g. Einstein's theory of relativity." You have not presented a "theory" of any kind. You have merely presented a very large pile of facts loosely connected by superficial similarities.




I get the impression you do not understand at all because you are not responding to the comments that I now have repeated many times.
I know you do NOT get it dude. I had to draw you a 2 and 5 in the center of a spiral. geesh.

No, you are the one who does not "get it." You have not responded intelligently to any of my critiques.

As for having to draw the 2 and the 5 - you failed miserably describing what you meant in words. I followed your exact instructions so you could see your error, and only then did you finally make yourself clear ... and then your ERROR was plain and obvious for all to see. You had asserted that there was a 2 and a 5 in the one image! But there was no "5" - there was only a 2. To get the 5 you had to create a mirror image the original, so your statement that both the 2 and 5 were in the original image was false and misleading. It is therefore absurd for you to blame your confusion on me.



I knew right then and there poor ole' Richard, the flip flop who has traded in his blinders for a cane is no Einstein or Escher.
(yes Escher tapped into swastika geometry too, geesh I need to enlighten the art world too??)

You don't know shit about "poor ole' Richard."

You write like an arrogant ass, you know. It wouldn't be so bad if you weren't so ignorant. You fail to communicate what you mean with any clarity at all, and then you blame it on me. You are quite a piece of work!




Genesis is the beginning of the ultimate cycle, but Genesis 1:18-25 doesn't fit your pattern.
Exactly I never said it did.
Was I suggesting Jesus' birth documented in Matthew 1:18-25 was a reference to Precession and the phi spiral. YES.
But I never said Jesus' birth was the ultimate cycle...did I?
You are putting words into my mouth.

No, I am NOT putting any words in your mouth! I never attributed any words to you. I simply asked a question, and you failed miserably to answer it with any understanding. You didn't even understand it!

Didn't they teach you how to think in the Archangel Academy?



Here is what I will say about Genesis that is over your head, but can be found deep inside of you.
Genesis is a Gene-the-sis
Yes it is a gene thesis.

That's not "over my head." It is far beneath my head. It is a trivial word game with no meaning.



And like I suggested DNA is the Holy Grail, a 3.5 billion year old aLIEn life form and we have really only studied about 95% of it?
And the sheeple worry about aLIENs?
ROFL
We are so ignorant.

I don't worry about aliens. But your obsession with random occurrences of the letters L, I, and E would worry me quite a bit if I were your psychiatrist.



And Daniel is a reference to DANIEL err I mean DNAI37.

Oh yes, there's a good deduction. E and L can be rotated to make symbols superficially similar to 3 and 7, so let's write DNA137 for Daniel! Brilliant! You must be the smartest person on the planet. :p

Have you no idea how absurd and meaningless your "methodology" appears to be?




It all looks arbitrary, and nothing you have written employs any PRINCIPLES that characterize SCIENCE. But you constantly pretend that you patterns are just like real science, and that's why it's pseudo-science.
FSC is science.
And just because you do not understand how e^2 could be pairs of animals entering a 137 meter Ark is not my problem.
It is obviously yours.

Oh yes ... I obviously have a big problem understanding the random superficial similarities that obsess your broken brain.

Why did you ignore AGAIN my critique that your work is pseudo-science? Every time you fail to respond to my rational critiques you only confirm that your whole program is the product of a broken brain.




That's hilarious. You always devolve into stupid name calling like "bible babbler" when your irrational claims are exposed for what they are. And my love for science is not "new." I have degrees in Mathematics and Physics.
bible babbler, sheeple, and ignorant are a few of my favorite words.

They make you look stupid and ignorant, especially when you throw them out in response to critiques of your work. I have explained your problem a dozen times and you still don't get it. Indeed, it appears you are so stone-stupid that you don't even understand it!




You claims are fundamentally irrational. And you go about claiming to be the Archangel Raphael.
I AM what I AM
I realized I had a part to play when I found out that RaphaEL the archangEL is in fact associated esoterically with the swastika.
And considering I had already made profound connections between asymmetrical DNA and asymetrical swastika, I thought hey why not, maybe the swastika can heal the world?

The two-bit part of RaphaEL the archangel was available, I recognized that.
The rest will be history dude.
The name Raphael associated with the swastika will live on, because it has already been written.
All I did was try on the Hugo Boss designed Nazi uniform, and it fit to a 'T'. But I have found a new application for it.
Duh get with the program dude, you are missing out on a much grander game. :yo:

p.s. The part of Jesus is available.
Do you have what it takes to try on the robe as king to come?

OK - you wanted to convince me that you are a paronoid schizophrenic? Mission accomplished!




And you constantly emphasis meaningless patterns of supErfIciaL simiLarItiEs as if they were significant. And you ignore the principles of science while trying to imitate science. There's plenty of signs of paranoid schizophrenia.
Usually after ignorance takes offence to the things I say, it is not long before they reply I am crazy or schizophrenic.
ROFL
Ignorance does NOT know I have been speaking with a shrink since '97 when my marriage was ending. I went to get help with marriage counselling.

Dude, I don't take any personal offense to anything you say. You are obviously deranged. I have presented reasoned challenges to your assertions and you have failed to anwer any of them. Case in point: you have never answered my fundamental criticism of your "methodology" of basing your theory on "supErfIciaL simiLarItiEs" which is very common amongst paranoid schizophrenics. You then confirm that you have some kind of seriouis mental disorder by your adamant refusal to deal with the facts that I have presented over and over again.

You can ROFL all you want. It won't justify your denial of the evidence you have presented that indicates you have a profound mental disorder.



Fast forward to 2012, the marriage counselling ended around 2001 when I got a divorce. But I continued to use the PhD shrink as a sounding board for my novel noble NOBEL ideas, that I have been TRYING to share with you.
ROFL now I understand Lord how truth can be right in front of ignorance and it gets 'ignored'.

Dude! Read your own words. You have ignored all the legitimate challenges I have presented. You have ignored my explanation of why your "work" is meaningless. You are just babbling to yourself here in public. You are not responding to reason. Yet you continue to claim that I am the one "ignoring" something. What then? What am I ignoring? And what about you? Why have you refused to answer my challenges to your schizophrenic "methodology."

Here's an irony for you: You are totally convinced by any "supErfIciaL simiLarItiEs" that match your preconceived ideas. Well, you can't deny that your writing look exactly like the ravings a paranoid schizophrenic, right? I mean, you can't deny the similarity, right? So using your methodology, what must you conclude? :winking0071:



So what did my shrink suggest that last time I spoke with him?
He told me to take a vacation, go to Ireland for a month, and start writing my book, and one more thing, he wants to come along and help me write my book.
He says my research, there is nothing like it. It is rather unique.

He needs to learn English. The phrase "rather unique" is an obomination.

And if he is so impressed with your work, why are you wasting your time here? You are not giving intelligent responses to any of my challenges. You are making yourself look like an utterly nutterly fool.



I am connected to bible babel that is beyond what you can comprehend. Because long ago you bought the farm called Christianity, died and went to some kind of distorted heaven and guess what, you never really did sell the farm. You still appear kinda 'dead' to the obvious.

BULLSHIT. You know nothing of what I can "comprehend." You have built a tower of arrogance upon a foundation of ignorance.



I AM a true blue mystic, I can feel it in my bones. And one day if we should meet I will share a mind over matter parlor trick that seems to impress 'we the sheeple' :pray: Here I AM doing battle with a former bible babbler who now eats science dogma for breakfast instead of prayer?
A real turn around of events.
Stop it....you are insulting yourself and cheapening the depth of the creation too at the same time, you fool.
I can see why you place the Fool in the #one position of the tarot, NOT everybody puts the FOOL first.
But you go ahead take that step.

And for all your wisdom you can't answer any challenge to your "work." And neither can you explain what your own words mean!

You just BABBLE ON.



Its all connected, everything, in spite of what you might believe, on your way DOWN....
duh is all I can say to your BS science that cannot prove we are all connected.

Your ignorance is deep Dozens of books have been written about how science - most notably QM - shows that everything is connected. Ever hear of Bell's Theorem? EPR? Non-locality? Sheesh! :doh:

[Raphael]

It is not an "algorithm" or "logarithm" of any kind.

So it is apparent that when your math/physics nonsense fails you, you resort to semite semantics to 'score points' instead?
:lol:

Yes U R correct, those numbers 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8 .... is NOT a logarithm ... duh duh pardon me, duh duh, those numbers are the result of a logarithm ... duh duh U R correct ... duh duh .... pardon me you win :yo:




No, you are the one who does not "get it." You have not responded intelligently to any of my critiques.

As for having to draw the 2 and the 5 - you failed miserably describing what you meant in words. I followed your exact instructions so you could see your error, and only then did you finally make yourself clear ... and then your ERROR was plain and obvious for all to see. You had asserted that there was a 2 and a 5 in the one image! But there was no "5" - there was only a 2. To get the 5 you had to create a mirror image the original, so your statement that both the 2 and 5 were in the original image was false and misleading. It is therefore absurd for you to blame your confusion on me.


You are full of it dude. You are being recorded too btw. I have proof you are full of BS.
I said a 5 right from the beginning.
http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?1072-A-Symmetrical-Pattern-in-Jewish-History&p=42807#post42807
You are one click away >>> PROOF YOU ARE BLIND TO THE OBVIOUS and then you dare twist the truth or is your memory starting to fade from view?
Nice verk comrade.
ROFL

I am absolutely correct in blaming your inability to see the OBVIOUS on you, and now in your typical fashion you twist what I said to make yourself look good?
I have not the time to go back over our correspondence and pull out all the crap you have twisted about. You are your problem.
geesh


You don't know shit about "poor ole' Richard."

I know all I need to know.
You are a former religious Christian funnyandmentalist who turned over a new leaf, deciding his born again status would be an ignorant science dude with a PhDuh.
So when are you going to find the MIDDLE PATH grasshopper?

grow up poor little ole' Richard, you are playing with fire with being a liar liar.
This time YOU LOSE liar liar.
Sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose....
Get used to it dude, RaphaEL the archangEL suggests you are on your way down king Richard. :winking0071:

I have much more proof I am winning even at your own game called 'come blow your shofar horn' ... I need not say a thing.
I only need to re-post your rant.
Hey as archangEL I can offer you a red, blue or chill pill dude, which would you like?



You write like an arrogant ass, you know. It wouldn't be so bad if you weren't so ignorant. You fail to communicate what you mean with any clarity at all, and then you blame it on me. You are quite a piece of work!

No, I am NOT putting any words in your mouth! I never attributed any words to you. I simply asked a question, and you failed miserably to answer it with any understanding. You didn't even understand it!

Didn't they teach you how to think in the Archangel Academy?

That's not "over my head." It is far beneath my head. It is a trivial word game with no meaning.


I don't worry about aliens. But your obsession with random occurrences of the letters L, I, and E would worry me quite a bit if I were your psychiatrist.


Oh yes, there's a good deduction. E and L can be rotated to make symbols superficially similar to 3 and 7, so let's write DNA137 for Daniel! Brilliant! You must be the smartest person on the planet. :p

Have you no idea how absurd and meaningless your "methodology" appears to be?

Oh yes ... I obviously have a big problem understanding the random superficial similarities that obsess your broken brain.

Why did you ignore AGAIN my critique that your work is pseudo-science? Every time you fail to respond to my rational critiques you only confirm that your whole program is the product of a broken brain.

They make you look stupid and ignorant, especially when you throw them out in response to critiques of your work. I have explained your problem a dozen times and you still don't get it. Indeed, it appears you are so stone-stupid that you don't even understand it!

OK - you wanted to convince me that you are a paronoid schizophrenic? Mission accomplished!

Dude, I don't take any personal offense to anything you say. You are obviously deranged. I have presented reasoned challenges to your assertions and you have failed to anwer any of them. Case in point: you have never answered my fundamental criticism of your "methodology" of basing your theory on "supErfIciaL simiLarItiEs" which is very common amongst paranoid schizophrenics. You then confirm that you have some kind of seriouis mental disorder by your adamant refusal to deal with the facts that I have presented over and over again.

You can ROFL all you want. It won't justify your denial of the evidence you have presented that indicates you have a profound mental disorder.

Dude! Read your own words. You have ignored all the legitimate challenges I have presented. You have ignored my explanation of why your "work" is meaningless. You are just babbling to yourself here in public. You are not responding to reason. Yet you continue to claim that I am the one "ignoring" something. What then? What am I ignoring? And what about you? Why have you refused to answer my challenges to your schizophrenic "methodology."

Here's an irony for you: You are totally convinced by any "supErfIciaL simiLarItiEs" that match your preconceived ideas. Well, you can't deny that your writing look exactly like the ravings a paranoid schizophrenic, right? I mean, you can't deny the similarity, right? So using your methodology, what must you conclude? :winking0071:

He needs to learn English. The phrase "rather unique" is an obomination.

And if he is so impressed with your work, why are you wasting your time here? You are not giving intelligent responses to any of my challenges. You are making yourself look like an utterly nutterly fool.

BULLSHIT. You know nothing of what I can "comprehend." You have built a tower of arrogance upon a foundation of ignorance.

And for all your wisdom you can't answer any challenge to your "work." And neither can you explain what your own words mean!

You just BABBLE ON.

Your ignorance is deep Dozens of books have been written about how science - most notably QM - shows that everything is connected. Ever hear of Bell's Theorem? EPR? Non-locality? Sheesh! :doh:

All your huffing and puffing and you still can NOT show me or direct me to a link that confirms what YOU THINK a hydrogen ATOM looks like???
:lol:

In a BS war of words on the internet dude, YOUR INABILITY to produce a modEL of an atom that ALL SCIENCE X-perts can agree on, suggests I win in a big way.
:signthankspin:

Your beLIEfs seem to focus on invisible shit, ghosts like Jesus and hydrogen atoms, AND YET you ignore the physical evidence that proves the supremacy of the 'G'eometric swasika.
ROFL

Forgive 'em lord, the ignorant do not know what they do.

namaste

RaphaEL

p.s. last stab at enlightening ewe.

The two spectral lines of the hydrogen atom are the two thieves flanking Jesus. We then write the dimensionless constant 1/137 on Jesus.
alpha FSC is made up of a trinity of important constants.
Whether we are talking about the Son or Sun of God, both would have to start out as a hydrogen atom/adam.
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/2011/11/19/my-god-eli-my-god-eli-why-has-thou-forsaken-me-lama-sabachthanie/

http://i.imgur.com/1lz1R.jpg

[Richard Amiel McGough]

This time YOU LOSE liar liar.

Uh, no ... this time you lose. You are banned. I have no reason to give deluded people like you a place to rave incoherently and spew out unfounded insults. The fact that I didn't immediately understand your obscure pattern of 5s on the symbol does not make me a liar. But for the record, you are correct that I was mistaken about your description - you did talk about 5s and you did not say both the 2 and the 5 were on the same symbol. My mistake was just that - a MISTAKE. It would only have become a lie if I did not admit the mistake after your showed it to me. But since you didn't have the common decency to even discuss it with me before hurling your insults, I have no interest in interacting with you in any way. You are fundamentally irrational and rude. It's not a pretty mix.

I have given you all the opportunity in the world to respond rationally, but you chose to be utterly irrational and arrogant. You can go play with Lotus Feet on her blog. She's a lot like you. She thinks she's the Messenger of the Covenant, the Queen of the South with more wisdom than Solomon and most Bible prophecies are about her. And you think you are the Archangel Raphael. You two should get along just fine.

Bye-bye.

[Craig.Paardekooper]

I think that Raphael is right-brain dominant whilst scientists like Richard are trained in left-brain analysis. Raphael has an artistic mind.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I think that Raphael is right-brain dominant whilst scientists like Richard are trained in left-brain analysis. Raphael has an artistic mind.
Why would you make a judgment like that?

Have you never considered that a person could use both hemispheres equally?

[Craig.Paardekooper]

My apologies,

I was just trying to say that Raphael has an artistic brain. I did not mean to suggest that you were ONLY left brain, merely that you were strong in that area, as well as in others.

[Craig.Paardekooper]

The Nation

Israel begins when God made a covenant with Abraham in 1921 B.C. and lasts until the total destruction of their nation by the Romans in 70 A.D.
This history is recorded in the Bible, written by 40 different authors over a period from 1492 B.C. till 70 A.D. – a period of 39 x 40 years.
The Old Testament consists of 39 books. The New Testament begins with the 40th book – and is about the last 40 years (the 39th 40) prior to the Roman destruction.

The Periods of History

The entire history of Israel, as recorded in the Bible, divides into several distinct periods –

1. The “Egyptian Captivity” lasting 430 years (1921 B.C. – 1492 B.C.)
This period stretches from the time that God made a covenant with Abraham until the Exodus from Egypt. During this period the Israelites were under the rule of foreign nations – they occupied foreign lands. They did not have a land of their own. This period lasted exactly 430 years.

2. The Period of Judges lasting 395 years (1492 B.C. – 1097 B.C.)
This period begins with the Exodus from Egypt, when the Israelites rebelled against their Egyptian oppressors and marched out of Egypt into the Sinai desert. They were led by Moses – who can best be described as a theocratic ruler, a prophet-ruler or “judge”. Judges ruled over Israel for 395 years. During this period the 12 tribes were not yet united under a single ruler, and the Israelites were struggling with the native inhabitants of the Promised Land for possession of it.

3. The Period of “United Kingdom” lasting 40 x 3 years. (1097 B.C. – 977 B.C.)
Finally, the Philistines (native inhabitants) were defeated, and Israel took sole possession of the Promised Land. The 12 Tribes were united under a single King and Israel became a united kingdom, with a capital at Jerusalem. During the period of united kingdom there were 3 kings in total, each reigning for 40 years.
The reign of King Saul for 40 years
The reign of King David for 40 years
The reign of King Solomon for 40 years

4. The Period of the Divided Kingdom lasting 390 years (977 B.C. – 587 B.C.)
After the reign of Solomon, Israel became divided, splitting into two parts – the Northern Kingdom, and the Southern Kingdom.
The Northern Kingdom consisted of 10 tribes and had its capital at Samaria – it abandoned the religion of Moses, and adopted foreign religions.
The Southern Kingdom consisted of 2 tribes and had its capital at Jerusalem. The Southern Kingdom still worshipped the god of Moses, and preserved the writings of the Bible.
This period lasted exactly 390 years.

5. The “Gentile Captivity” lasting 430 years (587 B.C. – 157 B.C.)
Finally, in 587 B.C. Israel lost its kingdom. The Babylonian army invaded Israel, destroyed Jerusalem, took the Israelite population as slaves back to Babylon, and executed Zedekiah – the last King of Israel.
After the Babylonian empire, Israel was ruled by an unbroken series of gentile empires – first Persia, then Greece – until 157 B.C when they finally regained their independence as a nation.
This period lasted exactly 430 years.
Commentary on the Time Periods

The diagram below shows an odd pattern that is apparent in these time periods –

985


1. The Egyptian captivity is said to have lasted 430 years.
Note : 390 + 40

2. The period of Egyptian Captivity was then followed by 395 years of Judges and 40 years of the reign of King Saul
Note : 395 + 40

3. There then followed 40 years for the reign of King David – a period representing the apex of Israel’s kingdom.
Note : 40

4. This was followed by 40 years of the reign of King Solomon, followed by 390 years of the Divided Kingdom
Note : 390 + 40

5. Then lastly there were 430 years of Gentile Captivity
Note : 390 + 40

The whole history of Israel seems framed by this odd pattern 390 + 40. What is also odd is that King David should occupy the exact centre of the pattern, with 2 x 430 years on either side.

Consider, for a moment the coincidence that the Gentile Captivity should last 430 years – exactly the same as the Egyptian Captivity. Then consider that between either of these captivities and the reign of King David we find a period of 390 + 40 years - both periods of 390 years being times of divided kingdom.

This is similar to the pattern of books in the Bible – written by 40 authors over a period of 39 x 40 years, and consisting of 39 Old Testament books + the New Testament (the New Testament itself being a collection of books written over 40 years).

The feeling conveyed by this amount of synchronicity is mesmeric. It is as if some greater mind were playing a game with the entire history of a nation.

Tabernacle and Law

When the first captivity of 430 years ended, the Mosaic Law was given, and the Tabernacle built.
When the second captivity of 430 years began, the new Law of Compassion was given (Axial Age), and the Tabernacle was destroyed.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

The Nation

Israel begins when God made a covenant with Abraham in 1921 B.C. and lasts until the total destruction of their nation by the Romans in 70 A.D.
This history is recorded in the Bible, written by 40 different authors over a period from 1492 B.C. till 70 A.D. – a period of 39 x 40 years.
The Old Testament consists of 39 books. The New Testament begins with the 40th book – and is about the last 40 years (the 39th 40) prior to the Roman destruction.

The Periods of History

The entire history of Israel, as recorded in the Bible, divides into several distinct periods –

1. The “Egyptian Captivity” lasting 430 years (1921 B.C. – 1492 B.C.)
This period stretches from the time that God made a covenant with Abraham until the Exodus from Egypt. During this period the Israelites were under the rule of foreign nations – they occupied foreign lands. They did not have a land of their own. This period lasted exactly 430 years.

2. The Period of Judges lasting 395 years (1492 B.C. – 1097 B.C.)
This period begins with the Exodus from Egypt, when the Israelites rebelled against their Egyptian oppressors and marched out of Egypt into the Sinai desert. They were led by Moses – who can best be described as a theocratic ruler, a prophet-ruler or “judge”. Judges ruled over Israel for 395 years. During this period the 12 tribes were not yet united under a single ruler, and the Israelites were struggling with the native inhabitants of the Promised Land for possession of it.

3. The Period of “United Kingdom” lasting 40 x 3 years. (1097 B.C. – 977 B.C.)
Finally, the Philistines (native inhabitants) were defeated, and Israel took sole possession of the Promised Land. The 12 Tribes were united under a single King and Israel became a united kingdom, with a capital at Jerusalem. During the period of united kingdom there were 3 kings in total, each reigning for 40 years.
The reign of King Saul for 40 years
The reign of King David for 40 years
The reign of King Solomon for 40 years

4. The Period of the Divided Kingdom lasting 390 years (977 B.C. – 587 B.C.)
After the reign of Solomon, Israel became divided, splitting into two parts – the Northern Kingdom, and the Southern Kingdom.
The Northern Kingdom consisted of 10 tribes and had its capital at Samaria – it abandoned the religion of Moses, and adopted foreign religions.
The Southern Kingdom consisted of 2 tribes and had its capital at Jerusalem. The Southern Kingdom still worshipped the god of Moses, and preserved the writings of the Bible.
This period lasted exactly 390 years.

5. The “Gentile Captivity” lasting 430 years (587 B.C. – 157 B.C.)
Finally, in 587 B.C. Israel lost its kingdom. The Babylonian army invaded Israel, destroyed Jerusalem, took the Israelite population as slaves back to Babylon, and executed Zedekiah – the last King of Israel.
After the Babylonian empire, Israel was ruled by an unbroken series of gentile empires – first Persia, then Greece – until 157 B.C when they finally regained their independence as a nation.
This period lasted exactly 430 years.
Commentary on the Time Periods

Hey there Craig,

I can see why you would find those numbers significant if they were true, but it seems you have forced them to fit your pattern. Where did you get the date of 157 B.C. as the time that Israel regained independence as a nation? I thought most sources said it happened in 164 B.C.

This seems to be a general problem with your timeline. You make assumptions that "just happen" to fit the pattern you are trying to fit. Does anyone really know that "God made a covenant with Abraham in 1921 B.C."? How do you support that presupposition? And most scholars say that Solomon died in the year 931 BC don't they? How did you get 977 BC? And on it goes. All your dates seem highly suspect. So let's start with the first one. Please give me the evidence that supports your assertion that God made a covenant with Abraham in the year 1921 B.C.

Thanks!

Richard

[duxrow]

Scuze, but the 1921 date looks closer to 1950 BC to me, Richard, though I don't like to quibble over a few years..
Either way, the 40/40/40 of Saul/David/Solomon seems apropos for the BW Triple Acrostic 22,
and I'll be watching for Craig's response too.. :yo:

988

[Craig.Paardekooper]

Abraham entered Canaan 430 years after the biblical flood event, and 430 years before the EXodus.

So we have

430 years in "Babylon". Then Abraham moves to Canaan
430 years in Canaan/Egypt

395 years from Exodus to Saul
42 + 40 + 40 years for reign of Saul + David + Solomon

390 years from Solomon to Babylonian Captivity
430 years of Ezekiel's captivity - actually lasting 423 years

I just find it interesting that the numbers 40, 390 and 430 seem to crop up more than would be expected by chance alone. It looks like there might be a pattern hidden

The original captivity is said to have lasted 430 years = 390 + 40
There then followed approximately 390 years before the united Kingdom of Israel was established
And a further 390 years after the united Kingdom of Israel fell into disunity
Then a gentile captivity that Ezekiel says would last 430 years.

These are the numbers that jump out from the text. I am not twisting them to fit my scheme. The Bible does record 430 years from the Flood to Abraham entering Canaan, and a further 430 years from this time to the Exodus.

It is interesting that from Noah's Covenant to Abrahams is 430 years, and from Abrahams to Moses Covenant is also 430 years.
It is also interesting that from Moses to David there are 437 years.

There are only 4 great covenants in the Old Testament, The Covenants of Noah, Abraham, Moses and David, and each of these covenants is separated from the previous one by 430 years !!

What is also interesting is that the Davidic Covenant lasted until 430 years after David's reign had ended. The Babylonian Captivity began 430 years after the end of David's reign and was because the Jews had broken the Covenant.

Noah Covenant --> 430 years --> Abraham Covenant --> 430 years --> Moses Covenant --> 430 years --> Davidic Covenant --> 430 years (Covenant broken)

What is also interesting is that the gematria for LAW is 430 - as Richard has pointed out - http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_430.php

One might add that the Axial Age which commenced 430 years after the Davidic Covenant was itself the establishment of a new covenant but this time with the whole world, rather than with the Jews.

Let anyone with eyes to see, and ears to hear. I rest my case.

[sylvius]

Abraham entered Canaan 430 years after the biblical flood event, and 430 years before the EXodus.





That's not right.

The flood took place in the year 1657, 1658 being the first year after the flood (flood ending on the 27th of the second month of the year 1658)

Abraham was born in 1948

1948 - 1658 = 290.

The Exodus took place in the year 2448, so 500 years after Abrahm was born.

Abraham left Charan when 75 years old (Genesis 12)

So "the covenant between the pieces"(Genesis 15) took place 5 years before Abraham left Charan.

[David M]

Give or take a year or so rounding up or down, I am sure the time periods can be accounted for. It remains work in progress.
Regarding the captivity in Egypt, we have this record;
(Acts 7:6) [COLOR="#0000FF"And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.7 And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place[/COLOR]

[Craig.Paardekooper]

Noachic Covenant Flood = 2348 B.C.

Abrahamic Covenant = 1921 B.C.

Mosaic Covenant = 1491 B.C.

[sylvius]

Give or take a year or so rounding up or down, I am sure the time periods can be accounted for. It remains work in progress.
Regarding the captivity in Egypt, we have this record;
(Acts 7:6) [COLOR="#0000FF"And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.7 And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place[/COLOR]

Which is about the 400 years from the birth of the promised son (Isaac) until the Exodus.

Abraham was born in the biblical year 1948, Isaac in 2048, and the Exodus took place in the year 2448 (you can reckon after from the biblical data), so in a way it is shwoing the 1-4 principle : 100 + 400 = 500.

[sylvius]

Noachic Covenant Flood = 2348 B.C.

Abrahamic Covenant = 1921 B.C.

Mosaic Covenant = 1491 B.C.
Christian year 0 coincides the biblical year 3760.
(Now is the year 5774; 5774 - 2014 = 3760).

The Noachide covenant was in the biblical year 1658. 3760 - 1658 = 2102 BC

Abrahamic covenant was in the biblical year 2018 = 1742 BC.

Mosaic covenant was in the biblical year 2448 = 1321 BC.

[duxrow]

That's not right.

The flood took place in the year 1657, 1658 being the first year after the flood (flood ending on the 27th of the second month of the year 1658)

Abraham was born in 1948

1948 - 1658 = 290.

The Exodus took place in the year 2448, so 500 years after Abrahm was born.

Abraham left Charan when 75 years old (Genesis 12)

So "the covenant between the pieces"(Genesis 15) took place 5 years before Abraham left Charan.
OK Sylvie, Not sure whether Methuselah drowned or had heart attack, but his age of 969 is nec for timing of Deluge, and then the ages of predecessors when they became fathers..

Adam to Seth = 130
Seth to Enos = 105
Enos to Cainan = 90
C to Mhl = 70
Mhl to Jared = 65
Jred to Enoch= 162
Enoch to Meth 65

Total = 687 -- plus Methuselah's 969 = 1656 Add the 5 and 1 for 3rd '6', then compare to 1776 for 3 '7's'.. :eek:
All from Gen5, so where am I missing it?? :yo:

[Craig.Paardekooper]

The repeating cycle of 430 years is based solely on the Biblical chronology without any reference to secular sources.

Stephen Coneglan has said that the frequent occurrence of the phrase "40 years" in the Bible is evidence that the usage is purely symbolic rather than literal.

I would beg to differ. If God was truly in control of Israel's history then the occurrence of repeating patterns would be exactly what I would expect. And the historical patterns would be both symbolic and literal at the same time

On a hunch that the frequent occurrence of "forty years" was literal and symbolic, I reasoned that such a frequent occurrence was beyond chance and therefore by design - in other words divine design. So I decided to check to see if there is any pattern in the occurrence of this phrase - "forty years"

I used Bible Gateway and searched both the New International and RSV versions of the Bible

In the NIV, the phrase "forty years" occurs 42 times, but only 40 of these refer to a time period of precisely 40 years. The other two refer to "one hundred and forty years" and "over forty years".

So in the Bible the phrase "forty years" occurs precisely 40 times with reference to a period of 40 years.

That's quite a coincidence

[sylvius]

The repeating cycle of 430 years is based solely on the Biblical chronology without any reference to secular sources.

Stephen Coneglan has said that the frequent occurrence of the phrase "40 years" in the Bible is evidence that the usage is purely symbolic rather than literal.

I would beg to differ. If God was truly in control of Israel's history then the occurrence of repeating patterns would be exactly what I would expect. And the historical patterns would be both symbolic and literal at the same time

On a hunch that the frequent occurrence of "forty years" was literal and symbolic, I reasoned that such a frequent occurrence was beyond chance and therefore by design - in other words divine design. So I decided to check to see if there is any pattern in the occurrence of this phrase - "forty years"

I used Bible Gateway and searched both the New International and RSV versions of the Bible

In the NIV, the phrase "forty years" occurs 42 times, but only 40 of these refer to a time period of precisely 40 years. The other two refer to "one hundred and forty years" and "over forty years".

So in the Bible the phrase "forty years" occurs precisely 40 times with reference to a period of 40 years.

That's quite a coincidence

Forty is the numerical value of the letter "mem", "mem" being the symbol of water. (Our letter "m" is hiëroglyph of water).

Forty in Hebrew is "arbaim", plural of "arba"= four.

The repeated mentioning of forty in connection with days or years intimates that water is symbol of time.

The principle of time was found to be the "ed", translated vapor or mist, of Genesis 2:6 (without "ed" there was no growth, growth being a process in time).

"ed"written "alef-dalet" = "1-4".

"ed" also being principle of the two trees in paradise, that show a 1:4 ratio. ("ets hachayim" = 233; "ets hadaat tov vara" = 932)

Eating the forbidden fruit meant that Adam lost his eternal life.

So you might think that time only began with Adam's sin, the unity of the "1-4" being broken.

The sin of the golden calf said to be the same as the original sin.

What was their sin?

Exodus 32:1,
When the people saw that Moses was late in coming down from the mountain, the people gathered against Aaron, and they said to him: "Come on! Make us gods that will go before us, because this man Moses, who brought us up from the land of Egypt we don't know what has become of him."

Rashi:

that Moses was late: Heb. בשֵׁשׁ, as the Targum [Onkelos] renders אוֹחַר, an expression for lateness. Likewise, [in the verse] “is his chariot late (בֹּשֵׁשׁ) ” (Jud. 5:28); “and they waited until it was late (בּוֹשׁ) ” (Jud. 3:25). When Moses went up the mountain, he said to them [the Israelites], “At the end of forty days I will come, within six hours” [from sunrise of the fortieth day]. They thought that the day he went up was included in the number [of the forty days], but [in fact] he had said to them, “forty days,” [meaning] complete [days], including the night. But the day of his ascent did not have its night included with it , for on the seventh of Sivan he ascended. [B]Thus, the fortieth day [of Moses’ absence] was the seventeenth of Tammuz. On the sixteenth [of Tammuz], Satan came and brought confusion into the world and showed a semblance of darkness, [even] pitch darkness, and confusion, [as if] indicating [that] Moses had surely died and therefore, confusion had come upon the world. He [Satan] said to them, “Moses has died, for six [additional] hours have already passed, and he has not come, etc.,” as is found in tractate Shabbath (89a). We cannot say that their [the Israelites’] only error was that on a cloudy day [they were confused] between before noon and after noon, because Moses did not descend until the next day, as it is said: “On the next day, they arose early, offered up burnt offerings…” (verse 6).

I would say their sin was that they took the forty days as literal forty days, like you do too.

Jesus' walking on the water I think has to be understood as Jesus walking on time. ("See I am with you all the days until the completion of time")

[sylvius]

The repeating cycle of 430 years is based solely on the Biblical chronology without any reference to secular sources.


430 is the number of "nefesh"= soul

430 is also number of Raamses, one of the store cities the children of Israel had to build in Egypt (Exodus 1:11)

So you might think that they had to build kind of birdcages for their own souls.

The first desert-journey went from Rameses to Sukkot, Exodus 12:37.

Sukkot has gematria 480 = 430 + 50.

"sukkot" = huts with open roofs.

So you might think in Egypt they were imprisoned under the roof, like birds that cannot fly in the open to touch the heaven-sky.

Moses' wife was called Tsipporah = little bird.

"D'ror" is also a bird, a sparrow or a swallow. "D'ror" can also mean freedom, liberty, release from servitude.

[Craig.Paardekooper]

Gentlemen,

I have taken into consideration the objections that the MT differs from the LXX on chronology and also differs from secular opinion. However, I still think it is a valuable exercise to see the pattern within the MT made clear -


In any 49 year period there were 7 Sabbath Years + 1 Jubilee Sabbath Year = 8 years of rest for the Land and everyone in it.

So in a period of 430 years there were 430/49 * 8 = 70 Sabbaths


From Adam to Noah there were 1656 years = 777.77 x 777.7 days or 7 x 86400 days (nb. there are 86400 seconds in a day)

From Noah to Abraham there were 430 years = Seventy Sabbath Years

From Abraham to Moses there were 430 years = Seventy Sabbath Years

From Moses to David there were 437 years = Seventy one Sabbath Years

From Solomon to Captivity there were 430 years = Seventy Sabbath Years

Ezekiel says that the Captivity lasted 430 years = Seventy Sabbath Years

Daniel says that there were Seventy "Sevens" until the end = Seventy Sabbath Years


It strikes me that the pattern in the MT is very clear indeed. Obviously it may be objected that the LXX has no such pattern, and that secular history also has no such pattern in it. But my point here is simply to outline a pattern within the MT (Masoretic Text), perhaps the most significant chronological pattern in it.

It is also true that Israel measured time by Sabbath and Jubilee year cycles.

This pattern suggests that every 430 years there would be a major change - a new covenant, or dispensation, a new creative cycle.


Anyway, the existence of a pattern in a book does not mean that there was any reality to it. That would depend on it's historical validity. Still, it is curious, and may be a good basis for further investigation.

Of course, if it does prove to be historically valid, then that would mean that God was guiding Israel's history from beginning to end. It is difficult to know the truth though, since the LXX and Samaritan OT have different chronologies, and also because secular history does not allow for a Flood in 2348 B.C. - not without extensive revision, anyway.

So this remains just a pattern.

[sylvius]

Gentlemen,

I have taken into consideration the objections that the MT differs from the LXX on chronology and also differs from secular opinion. However, I still think it is a valuable exercise to see the pattern within the MT made clear -


In any 49 year period there were 7 Sabbath Years + 1 Jubilee Sabbath Year = 8 years of rest for the Land and everyone in it.

So in a period of 430 years there were 430/49 * 8 = 70 Sabbaths


From Adam to Noah there were 1656 years = 777.77 x 777.7 days or 7 x 86400 days (nb. there are 86400 seconds in a day)

From Noah to Abraham there were 430 years = Seventy Sabbath Years

From Abraham to Moses there were 430 years = Seventy Sabbath Years

From Moses to David there were 437 years = Seventy one Sabbath Years

From Solomon to Captivity there were 430 years = Seventy Sabbath Years

Ezekiel says that the Captivity lasted 430 years = Seventy Sabbath Years

Daniel says that there were Seventy "Sevens" until the end = Seventy Sabbath Years


It strikes me that the pattern in the MT is very clear indeed. Obviously it may be objected that the LXX has no such pattern, and that secular history also has no such pattern in it. But my point here is simply to outline a pattern within the MT (Masoretic Text), perhaps the most significant chronological pattern in it.

It is also true that Israel measured time by Sabbath and Jubilee year cycles.

This pattern suggests that every 430 years there would be a major change - a new covenant, or dispensation, a new creative cycle.


Anyway, the existence of a pattern in a book does not mean that there was any reality to it. That would depend on it's historical validity. Still, it is curious, and may be a good basis for further investigation.

Of course, if it does prove to be historically valid, then that would mean that God was guiding Israel's history from beginning to end. It is difficult to know the truth though, since the LXX and Samaritan OT have different chronologies, and also because secular history does not allow for a Flood in 2348 B.C. - not without extensive revision, anyway.

So this remains just a pattern.

I thought the Jubilee year was the fiftieth year, so in 430 years there are eight Jubilee years.

Leviticus 25:10-11,
And you shall sanctify the fiftieth year, and proclaim freedom [for slaves] throughout the land for all who live on it. It shall be a Jubilee for you, and you shall return, each man to his property,_ and you shall return, each man to his family.. This fiftieth year shall be a Jubilee for you you shall not sow, nor shall you reap its aftergrowth or pick [its grapes] that you had set aside [for yourself].

[Craig.Paardekooper]

Hi Sylvius,

Yes there are 7 Sabbaths in every 49 years + 1 Jubilee at the beginning of each 49 year period = 8 years of rest

So in 430 years there are 430/49 * 8 = 70 Sabbath Years.

[sylvius]

Hi Sylvius,

Yes there are 7 Sabbaths in every 49 years + 1 Jubilee at the beginning of each 49 year period = 8 years of rest

So in 430 years there are 430/49 * 8 = 70 Sabbath Years.

Wouldn't that be 434 years?

[Craig.Paardekooper]

Hi Sylvius, yes the intervals between each Covenant only approximate to 430, but the proximity to 430 is what is intriguing.

If the scribes had faked the numbers to come to 430, then we might expect them to have adjusted the generations to equal 430 exactly. However this is not the case.

Between each Covenant or Law Giving, there are approximately 430 years - and Law has a gematria of 430.

Of course tis does not mean that there were 430 years in historical reality. It is merely a suggestion that there might have been - depending upon the truthfulness of the Masoretic Text - which is unknown.

Still the pattern is there, and persists throughout the Old Testament from Noah right up to the Maccabean period.

If God was involved in directing Jewish history and in delivering these Covenants, then I find it interesting that each Covenant was delivered at the end of 70 Sabbath Years approximately.

The Flood, the Exodus, Solomon and the Babylonian Captivity are the key date points. The date for the Babylonian Captivity is fairly certain - commencing 587 B.C. The Divided Monarchy lasted 390 years, and the 40 years of Solomon preceded that - making 430 years. The Exodus, we are told, was 480 years before the commencement of building of the First Temple in the 3rd year of Solomon, so the date of the Exodus would be 587 + 430 - 3 + 480 = 1494 B.C. So there are 437 years from the Exodus to David.

The Bible tells us that 430 years before the Exodus, God made a Covenant with Abraham.

In the Masoretic Text we have

427 years from Noah Covenant to Abraham Covenant
430 years from Abraham Covenant to Moses Covenant
437 years from Moses Covenant to Davidic Covenant
430 years from Solomon to Captivity
430 years of Gentile Capitivity according to Ezekiel

If the MT is telling the truth then this is an important pattern.

Ahmose drove out the Semitic Hyksos in 1571 B.C. and those semites who remained suffered persecution. Moses was born just then. Prior to Ahmose, Egypt had been ruled by the Semitic Hyksos for 100 years. Joseph was appointed to a high position by a Hyksos ruler. The Semites even exacted tribute from the native Egyptian rulers. However, when Ahmose revolted against this and drove out the Hyksos, this triggered a widespread persecution of any Semites who remained - the people of Moses generation. The resurgence of nationalism denigrated the remaining Semites to a slave class and the Egyptians even tried to stop the Semites breeding by ordering the extermination of all the male babies.

80 years later , in 1490, we have the Exodus. It all fits together perfectly, and makes historical sense.

In the entire period of Egyptian history there is only ONE major persecution period of Semites, and it began in 1570 B.C., when Ahmose drove out the Semite leaders. Exactly 80 years later the remaining Semites left under Moses.

Simultaneously a large group of Semites of the tribe of Dan left by sea under the leadership of Cadmus and Danaeus, and arrived in Greece, founding various cities. All this is documented.

[Craig.Paardekooper]

I believe that the Flood of Noah was local. Mainly because of it's absence in the histories of some nations, and because a universal deluge would require too many animals on the ark.

However, an immense flood is recorded in the Shu-Ching, the ancient Chinese book of history, as occurring in 2348 B.C. under the reign of the Emperior Yao. The succeeding emperor Shun was given the task of draining the waters from the land.

In addition to this the Shu-Ching mentions that Fu-hsi and Nu-kwa (pronounced Nuwa) were responsible for mending the world after the great flood, and Fi-His happens to have been born in the same year as Noah.

If the Flood was local, and if it was experienced in central and east Asia, then the Adamic world must have been located there - an Adamic civilization - distinct from the surrounding civilizations, and enclosed by the highest mountain ranges in the world. The location of this civilization can be estimated from the description given of Eden - where 4 mighty rivers originated from. This would be a location in the Hindu Cush - the Tarim Basin.

Anyway, it is best to assume a local Flood rather than a universal one. So a date of 2348 B.C. for the flood would still be feasible.

The ancient Indian civilisation also records a flood about this time, but it is not world devastating. This flood occurred soon after the end of the Mahbharat War, after Krishna departed. It resulted in the submergence of whole cities.

[duxrow]

Sounds good to me, Craig, tho am not familiar with the Chinese history. Kinda interesting to imagine 40 days & nights of a local rainstorm though? :mmph:

[Rose]

I believe that the Flood of Noah was local. Mainly because of it's absence in the histories of some nations, and because a universal deluge would require too many animals on the ark.



Hello Craig

If you are willing to reject a global flood like is stated in the Bible, in favor of a local flood because the former would require too many animals to fit in the ark, what about all the other problems that still remain, even when you consider a local flood? Even with a local flood there would be no way that Noah and his family could have kept all the predatory organisms from eating each other. Then think of all the prey that Noah would have had to gather to just feed the lions, tigers, wolves, cougars and leopards, not to mention all the reptiles and birds that feed on insects. Do you know how much food even a small zoo goes through in one day? It's a lot!

Another thing to consider is that not only did Noah need a food supply for every living thing on the ark for the forty days and nights of rain, but also for the time it took the waters to recede, and for the time it took to replenish all the plant life for the grazers, and the time it took for animal life to repopulate for the predators to eat ... IMPOSSIBLE!

The story of the Flood and the Ark is the type of simplistic tale that a child would make up, forgetting to consider all the hugely important details like gathering the animals, feeding the animals and waste removal. An elephant produces around 42 gallons of urine in a day and drinks more than that in water, so Noah needed water containers for all the animals plus he had to haul all the water in buckets from the water the ark was floating in. If it were even possible to gather that many animals, there is no way Noah and his family could have possibly taken care of them ... the logistics are impossible!

Take care
Rose

[sylvius]

Hello Craig

If you are willing to reject a global flood like is stated in the Bible, in favor of a local flood because the former would require too many animals to fit in the ark, what about all the other problems that still remain, even when you consider a local flood? Even with a local flood there would be no way that Noah and his family could have kept all the predatory organisms from eating each other. Then think of all the prey that Noah would have had to gather to just feed the lions, tigers, wolves, cougars and leopards, not to mention all the reptiles and birds that feed on insects. Do you know how much food even a small zoo goes through in one day? It's a lot!

Another thing to consider is that not only did Noah need a food supply for every living thing on the ark for the forty days and nights of rain, but also for the time it took the waters to recede, and for the time it took to replenish all the plant life for the grazers, and the time it took for animal life to repopulate for the predators to eat ... IMPOSSIBLE!

The story of the Flood and the Ark is the type of simplistic tale that a child would make up, forgetting to consider all the hugely important details like gathering the animals, feeding the animals and waste removal. An elephant produces around 42 gallons of urine in a day and drinks more than that in water, so Noah needed water containers for all the animals plus he had to haul all the water in buckets from the water the ark was floating in. If it were even possible to gather that many animals, there is no way Noah and his family could have possibly taken care of them ... the logistics are impossible!

Take care
Rose

From which you might learn that the bible is not an history-book

[Rose]

From which you might learn that the bible is not an history-book

That I already know ... no learning needed! As you might have noticed, I'm not the one who thinks there was Flood. :p

[sylvius]

That I already know ... no learning needed! As you might have noticed, I'm not the one who thinks there was Flood. :p


I didn't say that there wasn't a flood.

[Rose]

I didn't say that there wasn't a flood.

So, do you believe the story of Noah and the Ark?

[sylvius]

So, do you believe the story of Noah and the Ark?

The Torah is about 26 generations from Adam to the revelation at mount Sinai.

26 being the gematria of the Tetragrammaton, the name of God, Y-H-V-H = 10-5-6-5.

Noach is the 10th generation, coinciding the letter "yud" of the name.
Peleg together with his brother Joktan form the 15th generation, coinciding the "yud-hey"- part of the name.
Isaac is the 21st generation, coinciding the "yud-hey-vav" - part of the name.
Moses is the 26th generation, via Levi.

Only from this might already be clear that the Torah is not interested in mundane history.

Noach's ark is called "teivah", i.e. a box or basket, but which can also mean word (as written with letters).

Where John says: "In the beginning was the word", etc." he likely alluded at this, especially since a little further he writes: "and the word became flesh" - the written word became tongue = language, after the measures of the ark - 300 x 50 x 30 cubits, that spell (in different order) "lashon"= tongue, human language.

The flood is very central in the Torah, which might be clear from the fact that before the flood there were 1656 years, and from after the flood (1658) till the end of the desert-journey (2488) were 830 years, so the year of the flood dividing total Torah-time in almost 2:1 ratio.

[Rose]

http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Rose http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?p=59685#post59685)
So, do you believe the story of Noah and the Ark?


The Torah is about 26 generations from Adam to the revelation at mount Sinai.

26 being the gematria of the Tetragrammaton, the name of God, Y-H-V-H = 10-5-6-5.

Noach is the 10th generation, coinciding the letter "yud" of the name.
Peleg together with his brother Joktan form the 15th generation, coinciding the "yud-hey"- part of the name.
Isaac is the 21st generation, coinciding the "yud-hey-vav" - part of the name.
Moses is the 26th generation, via Levi.

Only from this might already be clear that the Torah is not interested in mundane history.

Noach's ark is called "teivah", i.e. a box or basket, but which can also mean word (as written with letters).

Where John says: "In the beginning was the word", etc." he likely alluded at this, especially since a little further he writes: "and the word became flesh" - the written word became tongue = language, after the measures of the ark - 300 x 50 x 30 cubits, that spell (in different order) "lashon"= tongue, human language.

The flood is very central in the Torah, which might be clear from the fact that before the flood there were 1656 years, and from after the flood (1658) till the end of the desert-journey (2488) were 830 years, so the year of the flood dividing total Torah-time in almost 2:1 ratio.

I guess that must mean yes, you do believe in the Flood story.

[sylvius]

I guess that must mean yes, you do believe in the Flood story.


In the flood- story the high mountains appear to be 15 cubits high while the ark itself was 30 cubits high.
At highest level the waters were with 15 cubits above the high mountains.
The ark being with 11 cubits submerged in the waters, the top of the ark was at highest water-level, where it says "and the ark walked on the water", with 49 cubits above the earth.
At the moment the ark touched ("came to rest at") the mountains of Ararat (Genesis 8:4) the waters were with 26 cubits above the earth, divided in the 15 cubits of the height of the high mountaisn and the 11 cubits the ark was submerged
in the waters, thus showing in a certain way God's name (15-11) - being there in the flood.
(which has to do with the resurrection -- man said to be resurrected from the Luz-bone, something that cannot decay, cannot be burnt in fire nor dissolve in water.)

From this also might be clear that the story of the flood is not a literal acount of historical events.

The flood lasted 365 days, i.e. 355 days + 10 days. 355 days being the length a year of twelve moon-months; 365 days being the lenght of a solar-year.
the 365th day being the ideal Yom Kippur that never occurs, except for in the first year after creation.

Genesis 8:14, the verse in which this is related, has gematria 2701, same as of Genesis 1:1.

A clear indication that it is not (meant to be) historic.

[duxrow]

Yes, a great pattern Sylvie -- ARK #3. This golden boat was constructed of shittim wood, Ex25:10, and measured 2½ long by 1½ wide by 1½ high (cubits), Ex25:10, and was carried on the shoulders of the designated Levites. I'd have called it a box, or a chest, because it contained the (1) Golden pot of Manna, (2) Aaron's Rod that budded, and (3) Tables of the Covenant. Heb 9:4.

:sos: NO WATER!! They aren't even close to a lake! This third Ark is built according to God's specs, in the desert, a long way from any water. And covered with so much gold there's a possibility it wouldn't have floated anyway...??

This 3rd Ark signified the presence of God! Sometime's we hear it said that "You can't put God in a box -- He's sovereign and can do whatever He wants". Sounds good, but it isn't really true. God is not a man that he should lie, and He MUST conform to His Word. That's the box He's put himself in! :eek:

Neither does God dwell in man-made structures--He wants to dwell in the "CHEST" of man -- in the heart of the believer! And He's truly a trinity of His Word (the tablets), and True Bread (the pot of manna), and New Birth (the Rod that budded). Heb9:4

[sylvius]

Yes, a great pattern Sylvie -- ARK #3. This golden boat was constructed of shittim wood, Ex25:10, and measured 2½ long by 1½ wide by 1½ high (cubits), Ex25:10, and was carried on the shoulders of the designated Levites. I'd have called it a box, or a chest, because it contained the (1) Golden pot of Manna, (2) Aaron's Rod that budded, and (3) Tables of the Covenant. Heb 9:4.

:sos: NO WATER!! They aren't even close to a lake! This third Ark is built according to God's specs, in the desert, a long way from any water. And covered with so much gold there's a possibility it wouldn't have floated anyway...??

This 3rd Ark signified the presence of God! Sometime's we hear it said that "You can't put God in a box -- He's sovereign and can do whatever He wants". Sounds good, but it isn't really true. God is not a man that he should lie, and He MUST conform to His Word. That's the box He's put himself in! :eek:

Neither does God dwell in man-made structures--He wants to dwell in the "CHEST" of man -- in the heart of the believer! And He's truly a trinity of His Word (the tablets), and True Bread (the pot of manna), and New Birth (the Rod that budded). Heb9:4

The ark of the covenant was called "aron", (related to "or" = light) not "teivah", like Noach's ark and like the basket in which baby Moses was laid.

[duxrow]

The ark of the covenant was called "aron", (related to "or" = light) not "teivah", like Noach's ark and like the basket in which baby Moses was laid.Roger the different word, Sylvie, and it adds to the intrigue of why three (3) are called "Arks" in the KJV. The pattern is figurative, but I couldn't help laughing at thinking of the Levites carrying the Ark until their feet got wet! A play on words !! :yo:

[sylvius]

Roger the different word, Sylvie, and it adds to the intrigue of why three (3) are called "Arks" in the KJV. The pattern is figurative, but I couldn't help laughing at thinking of the Levites carrying the Ark until their feet got wet! A play on words !! :yo:

In fact the ark of Noach was a pyramid with missing topstone:

Genesis 6:16,

and to a cubit you shall finish it to the top

Never mind the measures, 300 cubits the length, length = "orech" related to "derech"= the way, 50 cubits the breadth = "rachav", like the name of the whore of Jericho.
The breadth you cannot measure with your eyes, it gets lost in the corners.

In the top was the skylight = "tsohar" from root "tsahar"= press olives to get oil, the essence of the (candle)light.

During the flood the ark touched with it's top the 50th cubit above the earth -- that's where the bent Nun transformed into the outstretched nun of "lashon" = language, tongue.

[duxrow]

:idea: The Golden Boat
The Ark was a long time preparing, and only 8 souls were aboard...
Noah had built it of gopher wood, as instructed by the Lord.
He preached back then of righteousness, warning them into the Ark,
They closed their eyes and tuned him out; the light they had was all dark!

The 2nd Ark was quite a bit different, though it traveled on the water too,
It carried a newborn babe named Moses, with a message from God to the Jew..
That frail little boat carried just one, to a people foreign to him..
So he grew up in Egypt; from there he led out his own kin.

It was Moses himself who had the 3rd Ark built, according to specifications..
It signified the presence of Almighty God to all of those heathen nations.
He had it overlaid with gold, and they kept it in the Holiest place,
They had a long, long walk to the water; and it was God who set the pace.
They hurried to keep up with the cloud, and at night they followed the fire,
They carried the boat on their shoulders, so they really must have perspired!

Well...They finally arrived at the Jordan River, carrying that Golden Boat,
They must have wondered if all that gold would make it too heavy to float.
Imagine their consternation!...just as the feet of the priests got wet..
The waters rolled back in a heap, and they had to carry it further yet! :eek:

That Ark never took to the water, though they carried it all over the land..
but it won for them many a battle, when their enemies recognized God's hand.
It never did carry flesh and bone, but 3 items were carried inside...
The Tablets, the Manna, and the Rod that budded, all went along for the ride!

God in 3 persons were all in the Ark, with the angels looking down from above,
The gold wrapper protected the contents--it carried a boatful of love!
I can't help thinking "Rub a dub dub", that rhyme I learned as a babe...
Who says the things you teach a child won't help him later to be saved?

Did you ever have a day when nothing went right?
When you wondered what else could go wrong?

I wonder if those Priests felt that way, as they carried the Boat along..
It wasn't funny to them, I'm sure, but I couldn't help but laugh --
When Moses was in charge of things, he made them drink the golden calf!
Our new-Ark rides on Living Water, and it's going to take to the air...
and you don't need a ticket, because Jesus paid the fare.
The Ark is loading now at the dock; we're going in by two's..
So grab your brother by the hand, and tell him all about the Good News!


If you're EVER going to comprehend the Living Water, you'll have to get your feet wet! Dive in, and pretty soon you'll be "rightly dividing" the Word of God!

[Craig.Paardekooper]

If you are willing to reject a global flood like is stated in the Bible, in favor of a local flood because the former would require too many animals to fit in the ark, what about all the other problems that still remain, even when you consider a local flood? Even with a local flood there would be no way that Noah and his family could have kept all the predatory organisms from eating each other. Then think of all the prey that Noah would have had to gather to just feed the lions, tigers, wolves, cougars and leopards, not to mention all the reptiles and birds that feed on insects. Do you know how much food even a small zoo goes through in one day? It's a lot!

Another thing to consider is that not only did Noah need a food supply for every living thing on the ark for the forty days and nights of rain, but also for the time it took the waters to recede, and for the time it took to replenish all the plant life for the grazers, and the time it took for animal life to repopulate for the predators to eat ... IMPOSSIBLE!

The story of the Flood and the Ark is the type of simplistic tale that a child would make up, forgetting to consider all the hugely important details like gathering the animals, feeding the animals and waste removal. An elephant produces around 42 gallons of urine in a day and drinks more than that in water, so Noah needed water containers for all the animals plus he had to haul all the water in buckets from the water the ark was floating in. If it were even possible to gather that many animals, there is no way Noah and his family could have possibly taken care of them ... the logistics are impossible!


I do not think that Noah gathered some of every species. He only needed to gather some of any species that would be endangered by the Flood. If the Flood was limited in extent to the area of the Adamic civilization, then only samples of animals that were quite rare and restricted to that region would be collected. There would be no need to collect samples of animals that flourished elsewhere.

It could be equally argued that evolution is the type of simplistic tale that a child would make up - turning frogs into princes.

[Rose]

I do not think that Noah gathered some of every species. He only needed to gather some of any species that would be endangered by the Flood. If the Flood was limited in extent to the area of the Adamic civilization, then only samples of animals that were quite rare and restricted to that region would be collected. There would be no need to collect samples of animals that flourished elsewhere.

Hi Craig

First off I wonder why you feel so free to propose your own rendition of a story contained in what many people consider to be the word of God? Genesis clearly states that every living creature on earth shall die, how can you say otherwise?

Gen.6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.


Secondly, you did not address the huge problems concerning food and the disposal of waste that would arise even with a local flood.


It could be equally argued that evolution is the type of simplistic tale that a child would make up - turning frogs into princes.

I must say Craig, I am stunned to read your statement comparing evolution to "turning frogs into princes!" I thought you had some scientific knowledge of genetics with all your study of DNA. How could anyone compare a flawed story, written by primitive men, with the science of evolution that is based on mountains of evidence, gathered by hundreds of thousands of scientists?

Take care
Rose

[Craig.Paardekooper]

Well, the Bible recorded a Flood that affected all of the known world of the Adamites, and the date of this Flood is given as 2348 B.C. Now the Shu-ching records a huge flood at this very time. So maybe they refer to the same one.

The Chinese flood did not destroy all life - so most likely the area of absolute devastation was restricted to the Adamite civilization.

I don't think the waste problem is significant on board the ark. Only the endangered species would need to be collected, and these would not be many.

I will have to research this a bit more.


I must say Craig, I am stunned to read your statement comparing evolution to "turning frogs into princes!" I thought you had some scientific knowledge of genetics with all your study of DNA. How could anyone compare a flawed story, written by primitive men, with the science of evolution that is based on mountains of evidence, gathered by hundreds of thousands of scientists?


"Science" of evolution is a phrase that is insulting to true science. I will accept "Faith" of Evolution. It is still an unproven theory - and while evolutionists insist that we have evolved, a large amount of evidence suggests that we have devolved from longer-lived ancestors.

The ONLY observable processes currently operating are the progressive EXTINCTION of species, NOT their evolutionary emergence. So until evolution is demonstrated, it is a faith based on past speculations.

Yes, hundreds of thousands of scientists - many of whom still believe in a creator. We are living in the age of information, and DNA requires a Creator.

The story of the Flood is a primitive one but it is compatible with a local flood.

[duxrow]

Trivia-ites?
The word 'Adamites' caught my eye, thinking of a neg. reaction to something I wrote about Nazarites from Nazareth. Got me to thinking of how Jonah went to Nineveh and Jesus called them "Ninevites" in Lk 11:30.

Prob. not connected to the Hittites, the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, of Deut 7:1 -- Not unless our Lord has a really great sense of humor.. You think that's why our language speaks of mites and termites and other pesky creatures?

BTW, whenever they speak of Noah's Ark, I'm reminded of hibernation and migration, and how our present civilization may only have the remnants of those factors. :thumb:

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Well, the Bible recorded a Flood that affected all of the known world of the Adamites, and the date of this Flood is given as 2348 B.C. Now the Shu-ching records a huge flood at this very time. So maybe they refer to the same one.

The Chinese flood did not destroy all life - so most likely the area of absolute devastation was restricted to the Adamite civilization.

I don't think the waste problem is significant on board the ark. Only the endangered species would need to be collected, and these would not be many.

I will have to research this a bit more.

Hey there Craig,

It seems you have dramatically changed your interpretation of the flood. In your book Genesis - A Surprising Confirmation - you talked about a worldwide flood that wiped out the mega fauna. Now you are talking about a local flood. How does this impact your former understanding?



"Science" of evolution is a phrase that is insulting to true science. I will accept "Faith" of Evolution. It is still an unproven theory - and while evolutionists insist that we have evolved, a large amount of evidence suggests that we have devolved from longer-lived ancestors.

What has happened to your brain Craig? The theory of evolution is the quintessence of science! It is an amalgamation of every scientific discipline on earth. Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Geology ... are all part of the science we call "Evolution".

It sounds like you are totally ignorant of the scientific foundation of evolution. So tell me this - how many books have you read that explain the science of evolution that were written by evolutionary scientists? Zero? That's the answer I usually get from folks opposed to evolution. Now if you want to prove me wrong, all you need to do is display your knowledge of the science of evolution by posting the BEST EVIDENCE supporting it. If you can't do this, all your words will be exposed as empty blather written by someone who simply does not know what he is talking about. I started a thread for this purpose called What is the best evidence for evolution? (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3176-What-s-the-best-evidence-for-evolution) back in June 2012. Read the OP. No anti-evolutionist has ever been able to answer it at all. This really demonstrates the ridiculous ignorance of the anti-evolutionist camp. They are all driven by religious dogmas, which is particularly ironic since there is zero-evidence for their religious beliefs and a massive body of evidence that conclusively disproves them.

Your assertion that evolution is nothing but "faith" without any solid evidence supporting it could be true only if the entire scientific community were made up of morons and/or liars. We know they are not morons because they build computers and cell phones and rockets and developed DNA analysis, etc. But we also know they are not liars because their papers are peer reviewed by competing scientists would are strongly motivated to make a name for themselves by debunking other scientists. This is why science is so very robust. It operates on the principle of "survival of the fittest" - the essence of Evolution itself. Therefore, you assertion that there is no evidence for evolution is patently absurd.



The ONLY observable processes currently operating are the progressive EXTINCTION of species, NOT their evolutionary emergence. So until evolution is demonstrated, it is a faith based on past speculations.

The current rate of extinctions has nothing to do with evolution. It is happening because of hunting and destruction of habitat.

And we would not expect the emergence of new species to be "observable" because the time scale is too long. This is a most basic fact. You objections only demonstrate your ignorance of the topic.



Yes, hundreds of thousands of scientists - many of whom still believe in a creator. We are living in the age of information, and DNA requires a Creator.

Those scientists who believe in God also find the evidence for evolution compelling, if not conclusive. They would reject your assertions about there being know evidence for evolution. So now you are calling all the Christian scientists liars and morons? Get a grip dude!

Your assertion that the origin of DNA requires a creator is irrelevant and cannot be proven yet. But we do know that there is nothing about the physical operation of DNA in living organisms that needs God as an explanation. Everything that we can actually measure obeys natural laws. There is nothing that we can actually observe happening that requires God as an explanation. The only room for God now is the GOD OF THE GAPS - we don't know yet how DNA arose so you leap upon that point of ignorance as "proof" of God.



The story of the Flood is a primitive one but it is compatible with a local flood.
No it is not compatible with a local flood. Just ask your local Biblical fundamentalist.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

BTW, whenever they speak of Noah's Ark, I'm reminded of hibernation and migration, and how our present civilization may only have the remnants of those factors. :thumb:
And I am reminded of how absurd it is for modern folks to reject all science in favor of obviously false and absurd ancient mythology.

[sylvius]

The top of the ark is said to be a square, after Genesis 6:16

You shall make a skylight for the ark, and to a cubit you shall finish it to the top

Like this:

http://www.math4all.nl/MathAdoreOpgaven/Images/hb-d14-os2-c1.jpg

Since I want to contend that the story of the flood is about the transformation of the bent Nun (of the name Noach) into the outstretched Nun (of "chen" = favor, grace, and also of "lashon" = tongue, language)

You might think it is sqaure 7x7 = 49, since the ark touched with it's top the 50th cubit above the earth.

cf. the counting of the omer:

http://w3.chabad.org/media/images/45/gSvB450500.jpg

http://www.tbabeverly.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/n24604548_33939637_7122.jpg

The 5Oth day jumps out of the square (square-minded can't get)

5Oth day = Pentecost = the 6th day of Sivan , because of what the letter "hey"was added to "shishi" in Genesis 1:31, making it "the sixth day" instead of "sixth day", to allude to the day on which the Lord made known his name: "I am Hashem your God, etc."

So you can put on top the ark a cube 7 x 7 x 7 = 343 = "geshem",

Genesis 7:12, . וַיְהִי הַגֶּשֶׁם עַל הָאָרֶץ, "vay'hi hageshem al haarets", And the rain was upon the earth for forty days and forty nights.


Pyramide with basis 7x7 fits within a cube 7 x7 x7, with as top square 1x1, on which you can place a cube or pyramide again, ad infinitum .

[sylvius]

Here my pyramide with missing topstone within cube 7 x 7 x 7.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q262/suivlys/pyramidewithmssingtopstonewithincube.jpg (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/suivlys/media/pyramidewithmssingtopstonewithincube.jpg.html)

Might this topstone be "rosh pinnah" = the cornerstone rejected by the builders?

[duxrow]

:specool: Why have the Cornerstone on top? Usually at the base of the bldg. but in this case Sylvie, I think you're right on about the pyramid. Note how many books support the foundation 'stone'.

Fifty (50) = Jubilee yrs; A type of New Beginning..for slaves, for those indebted, also Days from Firstfruits to Pentecost, 7x7 plus one day - Scholars will pooh-pooh any significance to the 50 chapters of Genesis or the 22 chapters of Revelation, but it seems more than coincidence how those numbers seem to fit the 50 yrs. of Jubilee or the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet.

Job38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Ps118:22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
Isa28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
1Pet2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. :yo:

[sylvius]

7 x 7 x 7 x 7 = 2401

A value hidden in Genesis 1:1-2


If you leave out the "shin" from "hashamayim" in Genesis 1:1, it reads: "b'reishit bara elohim et hamayim v'et haarets" = In the beginning God created the water and the earth.

Letter "shin" has the value 300.

Gematria of Genesis 1:1 is 2701; 2701 - 300 = 2401.


"ruach elohim" (spirit of God) has gematria 300, same as the value of the letter "shin".

"v'ruach elohim m'rachefet al p'nei hamayim" = and the spirit of God hovered on the face of the water.

"m'rachefet" from "rachaf" -- gematria 288 , the Craig Paardekooper-number :winking0071:

Mark 1:10 seeming to have been written after this:

Immediately coming up out of the water, He saw the heavens being torn open, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon Him;


This dove must be the same dove Noach did sent away from the window in the top of the ark!

Strange: dove = "yonah" , gematria 71
raven = "orev", gematria 272

71 + 272 = 343 = 7 x 7 x 7.

[sylvius]

:specool: Why have the Cornerstone on top? Usually at the base of the bldg. but in this case Sylvie, I think you're right on about the pyramid. Note how many books support the foundation 'stone'.

Fifty (50) = Jubilee yrs; A type of New Beginning..for slaves, for those indebted, also Days from Firstfruits to Pentecost, 7x7 plus one day - Scholars will pooh-pooh any significance to the 50 chapters of Genesis or the 22 chapters of Revelation, but it seems more than coincidence how those numbers seem to fit the 50 yrs. of Jubilee or the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet.

Job38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Ps118:22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
Isa28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
1Pet2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. :yo:

Isaiah 28:16 has not "rosh pinnah" ( = head of the corner), but "pinnah yikrat" = a costly corner.

1Peter 2:6 written after Isaiah.

Job 38:5 has "even pinnatah" = stone of it's corner.

[duxrow]

The word 'pyramid' not found in scripture, but some say it was called "Pillar of Enoch". (Not sure where that came from..)

Ps105:23 Israel also came into Egypt; and Jacob sojourned in the land of Ham.

1Chr4:40 And they found fat pasture and good, and the land was wide, and quiet, and peaceable; for they of Ham had dwelt there of old.

http://cswnet.com/~duxrow/Apology.htm

[sylvius]

Water is a symbol of time. The "ed" of Genesis 2:6 being principle of time.

Genesis 6:17, And I, behold I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which there is the spirit of life, from beneath the heavens; all that is upon the earth will perish.

Which means that everything goes under in time. We too! Our lives here, our houses, gardens, cities, countries, books, friendships, etc.

Genesis 7:23, . And it [the Flood] blotted out all beings that were upon the face of the earth, from man to animal to creeping thing and to the fowl of the heavens, and they were blotted out from the earth, and only Noah and those with him in the ark survived.



So in fact the story of the flood is about resurrection,
There is some eternal principle that cannot decay, doesn't dissolve in water = doesn't go under in time.
Known as "Luz", the name of the place where Jacob dreamt of the stairway to heaven.
Gematria of "luz" is 43, same as of "gam" (= also)-- which might also declare the "gam" in Genesis 3:22,
Now the Lord God said, "Behold man has become like one of us, having the ability of knowing good and evil, and now, lest he stretch forth his hand and take also from the Tree of Life and eat and live forever."

[duxrow]

Water like Time? :confused: Dumb it down for me, Sylvie, 'cause the Bible Water seems to be a metaphor for life and for the WORDS of Scripture.

Eph5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Rev22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Acts2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Jer2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water. :yo:

[sylvius]

Water like Time? :confused: Dumb it down for me, Sylvie, 'cause the Bible Water seems to be a metaphor for life and for the WORDS of Scripture.

Eph5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Rev22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Acts2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Jer2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water. :yo:

Maybe you need the Holy Ghost to see it.

Mark 1:8, "I have immersed you in water; he will immerse you in the holy Spirit.”

[duxrow]

That's a good one too, Sylvie, but how do you relate it to "Time" ? :eek:

Mark 1:8 "I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost".

Must confess to being baptized w HG (and Fire), but seems to me that SAND more apropos to Time, than water. Have you built your house on Sand? :winking0071:

[sylvius]

That's a good one too, Sylvie, but how do you relate it to "Time" ? :eek:

Mark 1:8 "I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost".

Must confess to being baptized w HG (and Fire), but seems to me that SAND more apropos to Time, than water. Have you built your house on Sand? :winking0071:

That it isn't "baptize with water" but "baptize (=immerse) in water" might be clear from Mark 1:10 ,
On coming up out of the water he saw the heavens being torn open and the Spirit, like a dove, descending upon him.*

And there you have the spirit, like a dove = Jonah = the dove Noach sent away from the window in the top of the ark.


Genesis 5:29,
And he named him Noah, saying, "This one will give us rest from our work and from the toil of our hands from the ground, which the Lord has cursed.


Rashi:

This one will give us rest: Heb. יְנַחֲמֵנוּ. He will give us rest (יָנַח מִמֶּנּוּ) from the toil of our hands. Before Noah came, they did not have plowshares, and he prepared [these tools] for them. And the land was producing thorns and thistles when they sowed wheat, because of the curse of the first man (Adam), but in Noah’s time, it [the curse] subsided. This is the meaning of יְנַחֲמֵנוּ. If you do not explain it that way, however (but from the root (נחם), the sense of the word does not fit the name, [נֹחַ], and you would have to name him Menachem. — [See Gen. Rabbah 25:2] [i.e., If we explain the word according to its apparent meaning, “this one will console us,” the child should have been called Menachem, the consoler.]


How could he be consoler if all of mankind was destined to perish, except for him and his wife and his three sons and their wives?

Also from this might be clear that you have to read the story of the flood with other eyes than with historic eyes.

"the ground which the Lord has cursed" -- because of Adam's sin.

The cursed ground brought forth "ets oseh pri", instead of "ets pri oseh pri" - see: http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?5119-The-tree-that-is-a-fruit-and-makes-a-fruit

[duxrow]

That it isn't "baptize with water" but "baptize (=immerse) in water" might be clear from Mark 1:10 ,
And there you have the spirit, like a dove = Jonah = the dove Noach sent away from the window in the top of the ark.


No problem with Baptize/Immerse/Put Into, or with the Raven replaced by the Dove, but didn't you declare something about TIME ? Are you now avoiding the subject?Rashi:
How could he be consoler if all of mankind was destined to perish, except for him and his wife and his three sons and their wives?
Also from this might be clear that you have to read the story of the flood with other eyes than with historic eyes.

:focus: Agree that Noah Generation foreshadowed the USA "Promised Land" Nation "Under God" and the Far Country too!
:pop2: Noah's Generation (before his sons were born) the longest in the Bible, and a type of the NOW Generation when wickedness has taken over in this Nation.

[sylvius]

By the way, the root of the name John (= Jehochanan or Jochanan) is "chen", the favor Noach did find in the eyes of the Lord.

[sylvius]

No problem with Baptize/Immerse/Put Into, or with the Raven replaced by the Dove, but didn't you declare something about TIME ? Are you now avoiding the subject?


It is about time and eternity, something most people don't get, since they think (have been made believe) that eternity is endless time.

The kingdom of God (or kingdom of Heaven) is eternal.

Matthew 11:11, Amen, I say to you, among those born of women there has been none greater than John the Baptist; yet the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

That water is symbol of time might be clear from Genesis 2:6,
without "ed", water vapor, nothing could grow -- growth being a process in time.

[duxrow]

'Born of Woman' is the first birth, like "all the firstborn die!", so the born-again precept is crucial for the 'eternal life'. Millions are willfully and woefully ignorant of this Truth, even when they've been regularly attending church services or reading Religious tracts.

Babies need milk to grow, just as Christians need the milk of the Word to begin with, and our LIFE has stages of Time: infant, youth, adult -- then, after senility, it's "absent from our body and present with our Lord", and "eye has not seen nor ear heard.. the things which God has prepared for them who love Him". :flowers:

Does this fit with your TIME concepts, Sylvie? :yo:

[sylvius]

'Born of Woman' is the first birth, like "all the firstborn die!", so the born-again precept is crucial for the 'eternal life'. Millions are willfully and woefully ignorant of this Truth, even when they've been regularly attending church services or reading Religious tracts.

Babies need milk to grow, just as Christians need the milk of the Word to begin with, and our LIFE has stages of Time: infant, youth, adult -- then, after senility, it's "absent from our body and present with our Lord", and "eye has not seen nor ear heard.. the things which God has prepared for them who love Him". :flowers:

Does this fit with your TIME concepts, Sylvie? :yo:


It is "born from above", by Nicodemus misinterpreted as "born again":

http://usccb.org/bible/john/3


* [3:3] Born: see note on Jn 1:13. From above: the Greek adverb anōthen means both “from above” and “again.” Jesus means “from above” (see Jn 3:31) but Nicodemus misunderstands it as “again.” This misunderstanding serves as a springboard for further instruction.

[duxrow]

:sCo_hmmthink: No problem. Born from Above (spiritually) is the 2nd Birth, also the New Birth for New Creatures, meaning that
they change their life-style; no longer following after carnal and wicked impulses, but instead thankful for their admitted sins being forgiven.
Course, if that's not you, just know you've been put on notice. Amen?

[sylvius]

:sCo_hmmthink: No problem. Born from Above (spiritually) is the 2nd Birth, also the New Birth for New Creatures, meaning that
they change their life-style; no longer following after carnal and wicked impulses, but instead thankful for their admitted sins being forgiven.
Course, if that's not you, just know you've been put on notice. Amen?

Was Jesus' first birth a second birth, or did he at some point change his life-style?

[duxrow]

:woah:That's a weird question! He was the 2nd Adam, and serves as an example of how we can be born "of God". Since he was w/o sin, he didn't need to be born again, as required for the rest of us .. (not including babies, idiots, or pets, of course) - hah!

[sylvius]

:woah:That's a weird question! He was the 2nd Adam, and serves as an example of how we can be born "of God". Since he was w/o sin, he didn't need to be born again, as required for the rest of us .. (not including babies, idiots, or pets, of course) - hah!


Wasn't the parable of the prodigal son about himself?

[duxrow]

No Way, Jose -- The "prodigal" story is about US -- whether we stayed home with loving family, or left to sow wild oats. We're welcomed back, the story goes.. There may be alternatives to the story; like how the brother who didn't sow wild oats should have been more understanding.. You think?

[sylvius]

:woah:That's a weird question! He was the 2nd Adam, and serves as an example of how we can be born "of God". Since he was w/o sin, he didn't need to be born again, as required for the rest of us .. (not including babies, idiots, or pets, of course) - hah!


Where it says that he was without sin?

[sylvius]

No Way, Jose -- The "prodigal" story is about US -- whether we stayed home with loving family, or left to sow wild oats. We're welcomed back, the story goes.. There may be alternatives to the story; like how the brother who didn't sow wild oats should have been more understanding.. You think?


Welcomed back?

Luke 15:7,

I tell you, in just the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance.

[duxrow]

Welcomed Back, yes -- You came as an innocent babe requiring diapers, and grew to fight for your perceived 'rights' and take those things that 'belong to you', and sow your wild oats, but hopefully you come to your senses and return to the God of your childhood.. amen? :winking0071:

[sylvius]

Welcomed Back, yes -- You came as an innocent babe requiring diapers, and grew to fight for your perceived 'rights' and take those things that 'belong to you', and sow your wild oats, but hopefully you come to your senses and return to the God of your childhood.. amen? :winking0071:

The God of my childhood was my own thumb.

The ninety-nine righteous who have no need of repentance told me not to suck on it. It was a bad habit, they said, even a sin.

[Craig.Paardekooper]

If we are to believe the Massoretic text of the Bible, then there appear to be 430 years between each Covenant
So Noah to Abraham = 430 years
Abraham to Moses = 430 years
Moses to David = 430 years
David to Exile = 430 years

But why 430 years??

Well one part of the reason would seem to be that in 430 years there are 70 Sabbath years or years of rest.

But what is a year of rest? It is a year when all the sins are forgiven and slaves are set free and allowed to return to their homeland. When nature itself is allowed to rest, unfarmed and unharvested, and food is shared with the poor. In other words a Sabbath Year is a year of forgiveness.

That's why God chose to come near to mankind every 70 Sabbath Years - it was a special time of forgiveness - when a holy God could draw close to a sinful mankind - that's why we find a new covenant every 430 years.

[duxrow]

1001

The 430 yr. figure would be more interesting to me if it compared better to the 400th anniversary of the King James Bible.. and the Two (2) Covenants of Gal 4:24 have always overshadowed those minor? covenants of Rainbow, Jonathan, etc. - for me, anyhow..

Adam died age 930 -- 70 yrs. prior to the 2nd millennium.

The 50 chapters of Genesis (Pre-Law) add to the 7x7+1 Jubile (type of new beginning... many "news", like new-creature, new-leaven,new hidden man, etc. :thumb:

[Craig.Paardekooper]

and the Two (2) Covenants of Gal 4:24 have always overshadowed those minor? covenants of Rainbow, Jonathan, etc. - for me, anyhow..


The covenants with Noah, Abraham, Moses and David were followed by a new covenant of sorts 430 years after David.

As I outline in "One God Many Faces", 430 years after David there was a religious revolution within all the gentile nations. Virtually simultaneously across all the main centres of civilisation there arose a new consciousness centred on compassion, and direct experience of the divine rather than mediated through a priesthood.

See http://www.craigdemo.co.uk/onegod.pdf

In the very generation that God announced the seventy years of captivity for Israel, several gentile religions were founded - perhaps God made a covenant with the gentiles and set them free.

The Christ covenant was the final attempt by God to avert disaster for Israel. It was made 40 years prior to the end of the nation. Its central tenets were compassion, inner spiritual devotion, and in many ways it resembled the tenets of the world religions of the Axial Age. But it was God's last attempt with Israel. However, the Messiah was executed and 40 years later the nation was also terminated - 770 years after it had been spared from the Assyrians, and 660 years after Ezekiel had first witnessed the sign of the Son of Man, and on the same day (10th Av) that the first temple had been destroyed.

[sylvius]

Where it says that he was without sin?

Wasn't he the one to carry the sin of the world?

Like the lost sheep of Luke 15:4-6?

“What man among you having a hundred sheep and losing one of them would not leave the ninety-nine in the desert and go after the lost one until he finds it? 5And when he does find it, he sets it on his shoulders with great joy and, upon his arrival home, he calls together his friends and neighbors and says to them, ‘Rejoice with me because I have found my lost sheep.’

(This lost sheep being not lost like a coin or so, τὸ πρόβατόν μου τὸ ἀπολωλός, from ἀπόλλυμι,
1) to destroy 1a) to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin 1b) render useless 1c) to kill 1d) to declare that one must be put to death 1e) metaph. to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell 1f) to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed 2) to destroy 2a) to lose )

[duxrow]

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2Cor5:21 KJV
What's your beef, Sylvie? Are you trying to say Jesus had some personal faults that required him to be baptized?

[sylvius]

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2Cor5:21 KJV
What's your beef, Sylvie? Are you trying to say Jesus had some personal faults that required him to be baptized?

The one who has no sin is the original Adam who lives eternal,

The sin of the world meant that everything became subjugated to time.

Adam took that voluntarily on him by eating the forbidden fruit. He became so the speak the lost sheep, who carried the sin of the world.

Eternity is not endless time.

Eternal life you even cannot lose.

That's what NT is about, I think, which is also what is said in 2 Corinthians 5:21.

[duxrow]

First Time, Next Time, Central Time.. where are you coming from Sylvie??
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1Cor15:22

Hos6:7 - "But they like men [Adam] have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me." The word "men" is the Hebrew 'Adam', Strongs #H120. Adam knew exactly what he was doing!

Job 31:33 "If I covered my transgressions as Adam, by hiding mine iniquity in my bosom" :pop2:

[David M]

Hello Sylvius
I will add one or two thoughts to the discussion based on your last post.

The one who has no sin is the original Adam who lives eternal, You mean the original Adam before he sinned?


The sin of the world meant that everything became subjugated to time. "The world" is regarded as those who do not believe in God and are Godless. It is "the world" which is enmity with God; the same as all those who only have the carnal mind. The carnal mind (Rom 8:7) is enmity with God.


Adam took that voluntarily on him by eating the forbidden fruit. He became so the speak the lost sheep, who carried the sin of the world.There was nothing voluntary about Adam as I see it. On his part at best, it was a sin of omission and at worst, it was a sin of commission.


Eternity is not endless time. Eternity is having no beginning as well as having no end.


Eternal life you even cannot lose. I agree, eternal life cannot be lost. Can we say Jesus has everlasting life? In that respect Jesus is more like God now after the resurrection. Jesus had a beginning, he had a genesis, because he was born.


That's what NT is about, I think, which is also what is said in 2 Corinthians 5:21.

2 Cor 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. I do not see this the way you do Sylvius. However, the accomplishment of Jesus leads to everlasting life.

Finally, my thought on the word "everlasting". Many dictionaries define the word to be the same as eternal. However, there must be a difference seeing we have two words and not just one. Can we think of everlasting as having no end, but having a beginning. Hence, everlasting life is given after the resurrection. (John 6:27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Have the translators a choice of deciding when to use the word "eternal" or "everlasting"? Would the original Greek or Hebrew words distinguish between the two? How did the translators decide which word to use; "everlasting", or "eternal"?

A cursory reading of the verses in which "eternal life" is used is in association with the life of God. If before the universe was created and for the purpose of creating man in which the perfectly obedient man was foreknown of God, then in the mind of God, the foreknown man was eternal before time began. That is just my thought.


David

[sylvius]

Hello Sylvius
I will add one or two thoughts to the discussion based on your last post.
You mean the original Adam before he sinned?

No.

The resurrected Jesus is the original Adam (or the second Adam in Paul's terminology) and the original Adam is the resurrected Jesus.


"The world" is regarded as those who do not believe in God and are Godless. The world consists of the 99 righteous that do not need repentance.



There was nothing voluntary about Adam as I see it.There was a moment that Eve had already eaten and had become mortal and Adam not yet. He did eat out of solidarity with her.


Eternity is having no beginning as well as having no end. It is of another order than time.


I agree, eternal life cannot be lost. Can we say Jesus has everlasting life? In that respect Jesus is more like God now after the resurrection. Jesus had a beginning, he had a genesis, because he was born. As resurrected one he was there before being born.




2 Cor 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. I do not see this the way you do Sylvius. However, the accomplishment of Jesus leads to everlasting life.

Finally, my thought on the word "everlasting". Many dictionaries define the word to be the same as eternal. However, there must be a difference seeing we have two words and not just one. Can we think of everlasting as having no end, but having a beginning. Hence, everlasting life is given after the resurrection. (John 6:27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Have the translators a choice of deciding when to use the word "eternal" or "everlasting"? Would the original Greek or Hebrew words distinguish between the two? How did the translators decide which word to use; "everlasting", or "eternal"?

Hebrew "olam" can mean eternity; also: world, universe, humanity, space, community, existence, surroundings, assembly. pleasures of life.
"olam vaed" = for ever and ever.

Genesis 3:22,
Now the Lord God said, "Behold man has become like one of us, having the ability of knowing good and evil, and now, lest he stretch forth his hand and take also from the Tree of Life and eat Now the Lord God said, "Behold man has become like one of us, having the ability of knowing good and evil, and now, lest he stretch forth his hand and take also from the Tree of Life and eat and live forever."."

and live forever = "v'chai l'olam" -- can also be translated with "and live eternal" LXX has: καὶ ζήσεται εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα
,

(I do think the NT-story of the man with the withered hand is about this verse)

Mark 10:29-30
ἔφη ὁ Ἰησοῦς, Ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, οὐδείς ἐστιν ὃς ἀφῆκεν οἰκίαν ἢ ἀδελφοὺς ἢ ἀδελφὰς ἢ μητέρα ἢ πατέρα ἢ τέκνα ἢ ἀγροὺς ἕνεκεν ἐμοῦ καὶ ἕνεκεν τοῦ εὐαγγελίου, ἐὰν μὴ λάβῃ ἑκατονταπλασίονα νῦν ἐν τῷ καιρῷ τούτῳ οἰκίας καὶ ἀδελφοὺς καὶ ἀδελφὰς καὶ μητέρας καὶ τέκνα καὶ ἀγροὺς μετὰ διωγμῶν, καὶ ἐν τῷ αἰῶνι τῷ ἐρχομένov ζωὴν αἰώνιον.

Jesus said, “Amen, I say to you, there is no one who has given up house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands for my sake and for the sake of the gospel who will not take a hundred times more now in this present age: houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and eternal life in the age to come.

αἰών = age; world; order; eternity; existence.
αἰώνιος = eternal; unending; everlasting; for all time.
λαμβάνω = to take (with your withered hand), receive.



A cursory reading of the verses in which "eternal life" is used is in association with the life of God. If before the universe was created and for the purpose of creating man in which the perfectly obedient man was foreknown of God, then in the mind of God, the foreknown man was eternal before time began. That is just my thought.


There is no before time began, nor after the end of time, since before and after are timebound notions.

[duxrow]

Because of other scripture which includes large gaps in time sandwiched in single verse, Adam#1 probably waited 24 hrs. after Eve ate, to see if she would really die!

That 1st Adam was rebellious (Job 31:33 and Hos6:7), in contrast to the 2nd Adam (Jesus) who was submissive to the Father. The 'perfect' blood of that 1st Adam was duplicated in the 2nd Adam by way of the Virgin Birth. :thumb:

[sylvius]

Because of other scripture which includes large gaps in time sandwiched in single verse, Adam#1 probably waited 24 hrs. after Eve ate, to see if she would really die!

That 1st Adam was rebellious (Job 31:33 and Hos6:7), in contrast to the 2nd Adam (Jesus) who was submissive to the Father. The 'perfect' blood of that 1st Adam was duplicated in the 2nd Adam by way of the Virgin Birth. :thumb:

Wasn't also for Adam one day like a thousand years?

Adam could have lived a thousand years (= eternal) but he offered 70 years of it, by eating the forbidden fruit.

http://www.torah.org/learning/ravfrand/5768/bereishis.html


The Medrash teaches that the Almighty showed Adam the history of mankind --each generation and its leaders. In the course of this "exhibition," Adam was shown the soul of Dovid HaMelech [King David] and the fact that he was destined to live only 3 hours. Adam was very grieved at this loss of potential. He inquired whether he was allowed to bequeath some of his own years to Dovid. The Almighty answered that Adam was destined to live for 1000 years, but that he would be allowed to give up some of those years to Dovid. Adam then bequeathed 70 years to Dovid, so that Adam lived for 930 years and Dovid lived for 70 years.

[sylvius]

Because of other scripture which includes large gaps in time sandwiched in single verse, Adam#1 probably waited 24 hrs. after Eve ate, to see if she would really die!

That 1st Adam was rebellious (Job 31:33 and Hos6:7), in contrast to the 2nd Adam (Jesus) who was submissive to the Father. The 'perfect' blood of that 1st Adam was duplicated in the 2nd Adam by way of the Virgin Birth. :thumb:

Adam's sin changed "yom echad", day one, into "yom rishon - yom sh'ni - yom sh'loshi", etc. first day, second day, third day, etc.
Buit just seemingly, "yom echad" is all there is, it is encompassing all the days from the first day to the last.

Genesis 2:4, These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, on the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven.

Rashi:
This teaches you that they were all created on the first day (Gen. Rabbah 12:4)



Genesis 2:17, But of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat of it, for on the day that you eat thereof, you shall surely die."

"yom echad"
Rashi:

According to the sequence of the language of the chapter, it should have been written, “the first day,” as it is written regarding the other days, “second, third, fourth.” Why did Scripture write“one” ? Because the Holy One, blessed be He, was the only one in His world, for the angels were not created until the second day. [i.e., יוֹם אֶחָד is understood as ‘the day of the only One’] So is it explained in Genesis Rabbah (3:8).

the day of the only One’ = "yom hayachid" -
"yachid" Greek "monogenès", mentioned by John:
John 1:18, θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε: μονογενὴς θεὸς ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ πατρὸς ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο

[Craig.Paardekooper]

Hi Sylvius,

Yes there are 7 Sabbaths in every 49 years + 1 Jubilee at the beginning of each 49 year period = 8 years of rest

So in 430 years there are 430/49 * 8 = 70 Sabbath Years.


Wouldn't that be 434 years?

What is curious is that each new covenant occurs within the 70th Sabbath.

God only draws near to sinful mankind through grace, and grace is precisely what defines the Sabbath. That's why all the covenants were made at these times.

[Craig.Paardekooper]

Well in 430 years there would be 430/49 * 8 years of rest = 70.204 years of rest..

Every 7 years there was a year of rest, and there was an extra year of rest every 7 x 7 years.

This means that 70 years of rest would be achieved over a period of exactly 429 years, and the next year of rest would be 6 years later.

So in a period of 430 years, 70 years of rest would have occurred, and they would be awaiting the next year of rest in 5 years time.


Anyway,

A new covenant was given every 430 years, when God seems to have drawn especially close. And this coincided with a cycle of 70 years of rest - which makes sense because the Sabbath was the very time when people were supposed to be forgiven of their debts and sins, and allowed to return home... when sins were forgiven, and God could draw near.

[Craig.Paardekooper]

As mentioned before, Israel's history is dotted with periods of 40 years, which many people have taken to be symbolic rather than literal. However, supposing that God really were in control of the History of Israel, then it is POSSIBLE that such time periods were precisely 40 years long. In other words, such time periods would be BOTH symbolic and literal.

To test this, I reasoned that the total NUMBER of occurrences of the period of 40 years, in the entire Bible would also be by supernatural design.

Using the Bible Gateway, I searched for all occurrences of the phrase "40 Years" and counted all occurrences were this phrase referred to a specific time period of 40 years. Here are the results -


1. Genesis 25:20

and Isaac was forty years old when he married Rebekah daughter of Bethuel the Aramean from Paddan Aram and sister of Laban the Aramean.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


2. Genesis 26:34

[ Jacob Takes Esau’s Blessing ] When Esau was forty years old, he married Judith daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and also Basemath daughter of Elon the Hittite.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Genesis 47:28

Jacob lived in Egypt seventeen years, and the years of his life were a hundred and forty-seven.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


3. Exodus 16:35

The Israelites ate manna forty years, until they came to a land that was settled; they ate manna until they reached the border of Canaan.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Leviticus 25:8

[ The Year of Jubilee ] “‘Count off seven sabbath years—seven times seven years—so that the seven sabbath years amount to a period of forty-nine years.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


4. Numbers 14:33

Your children will be shepherds here for forty years, suffering for your unfaithfulness, until the last of your bodies lies in the wilderness.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


5. Numbers 14:34

For forty years—one year for each of the forty days you explored the land—you will suffer for your sins and know what it is like to have me against you.’
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


6. Numbers 32:13

The Lord’s anger burned against Israel and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until the whole generation of those who had done evil in his sight was gone.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


7. Deuteronomy 2:7

The Lord your God has blessed you in all the work of your hands. He has watched over your journey through this vast wilderness. These forty years the Lord your God has been with you, and you have not lacked anything.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


8. Deuteronomy 8:2

Remember how the Lord your God led you all the way in the wilderness these forty years, to humble and test you in order to know what was in your heart, whether or not you would keep his commands.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


9. Deuteronomy 8:4

Your clothes did not wear out and your feet did not swell during these forty years.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


10. Deuteronomy 29:5

Yet the Lord says, “During the forty years that I led you through the wilderness, your clothes did not wear out, nor did the sandals on your feet.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


11. Joshua 5:6

The Israelites had moved about in the wilderness forty years until all the men who were of military age when they left Egypt had died, since they had not obeyed the Lord. For the Lord had sworn to them that they would not see the land he had solemnly promised their ancestors to give us, a land flowing with milk and honey.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


12. Joshua 14:7

I was forty years old when Moses the servant of the Lord sent me from Kadesh Barnea to explore the land. And I brought him back a report according to my convictions,
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Joshua 14:10

“Now then, just as the Lord promised, he has kept me alive for forty-five years since the time he said this to Moses, while Israel moved about in the wilderness. So here I am today, eighty-five years old!
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


13. Judges 3:11

So the land had peace for forty years, until Othniel son of Kenaz died.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


14. Judges 5:31

“So may all your enemies perish, Lord! But may all who love you be like the sun when it rises in its strength.” Then the land had peace forty years.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


15. Judges 8:28

[ Gideon’s Death ] Thus Midian was subdued before the Israelites and did not raise its head again. During Gideon’s lifetime, the land had peace forty years.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Judges 12:14

He had forty sons and thirty grandsons, who rode on seventy donkeys. He led Israel eight years.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


16. Judges 13:1

[ The Birth of Samson ] Again the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the Lord, so the Lord delivered them into the hands of the Philistines for forty years.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


17. 1 Samuel 4:18

When he mentioned the ark of God, Eli fell backward off his chair by the side of the gate. His neck was broken and he died, for he was an old man, and he was heavy. He had led Israel forty years.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


1 Samuel 13:1

[ Samuel Rebukes Saul ] Saul was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned over Israel forty- two years.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


18. 2 Samuel 2:10

Ish-Bosheth son of Saul was forty years old when he became king over Israel, and he reigned two years. The tribe of Judah, however, remained loyal to David.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


19. 2 Samuel 5:4

David was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned forty years.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


20. 1 Kings 2:11

He had reigned forty years over Israel—seven years in Hebron and thirty-three in Jerusalem.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


21. 1 Kings 11:42

Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel forty years.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


1 Kings 14:21

[ Rehoboam King of Judah ] Rehoboam son of Solomon was king in Judah. He was forty-one years old when he became king, and he reigned seventeen years in Jerusalem, the city the Lord had chosen out of all the tribes of Israel in which to put his Name. His mother’s name was Naamah; she was an Ammonite.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


1 Kings 15:10

and he reigned in Jerusalem forty-one years. His grandmother’s name was Maakah daughter of Abishalom.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


22. 2 Kings 12:1

[ Joash Repairs the Temple ] In the seventh year of Jehu, Joash became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem forty years. His mother’s name was Zibiah; she was from Beersheba.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


2 Kings 14:23

[ Jeroboam II King of Israel ] In the fifteenth year of Amaziah son of Joash king of Judah, Jeroboam son of Jehoash king of Israel became king in Samaria, and he reigned forty-one years.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


23. 1 Chronicles 29:27

He ruled over Israel forty years—seven in Hebron and thirty-three in Jerusalem.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


24. 2 Chronicles 9:30

Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel forty years.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


2 Chronicles 12:13

King Rehoboam established himself firmly in Jerusalem and continued as king. He was forty-one years old when he became king, and he reigned seventeen years in Jerusalem, the city the Lord had chosen out of all the tribes of Israel in which to put his Name. His mother’s name was Naamah; she was an Ammonite.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


25. 2 Chronicles 24:1

[ Joash Repairs the Temple ] Joash was seven years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem forty years. His mother’s name was Zibiah; she was from Beersheba.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


26. Nehemiah 9:21

For forty years you sustained them in the wilderness; they lacked nothing, their clothes did not wear out nor did their feet become swollen.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Job 42:16

After this, Job lived a hundred and forty years; he saw his children and their children to the fourth generation.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


27. Psalm 95:10

For forty years I was angry with that generation; I said, ‘They are a people whose hearts go astray, and they have not known my ways.’
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


28. Ezekiel 29:11

The foot of neither man nor beast will pass through it; no one will live there for forty years.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


29. Ezekiel 29:12

I will make the land of Egypt desolate among devastated lands, and her cities will lie desolate forty years among ruined cities. And I will disperse the Egyptians among the nations and scatter them through the countries.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


30. Ezekiel 29:13

“‘Yet this is what the Sovereign Lord says: At the end of forty years I will gather the Egyptians from the nations where they were scattered.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


31. Amos 2:10

I brought you up out of Egypt and led you forty years in the wilderness to give you the land of the Amorites.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


32. Amos 5:25

“Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings forty years in the wilderness, people of Israel?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


John 2:20

They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?”
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Acts 4:22

For the man who was miraculously healed was over forty years old.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


33. Acts 7:23

“When Moses was forty years old, he decided to visit his own people, the Israelites.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


34. Acts 7:30

“After forty years had passed, an angel appeared to Moses in the flames of a burning bush in the desert near Mount Sinai.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


35. Acts 7:36

He led them out of Egypt and performed wonders and signs in Egypt, at the Red Sea and for forty years in the wilderness.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


36. Acts 7:42

But God turned away from them and gave them over to the worship of the sun, moon and stars. This agrees with what is written in the book of the prophets: “‘Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings forty years in the wilderness, people of Israel?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


37. Acts 13:18

for about forty years he endured their conduct in the wilderness;
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


38. Acts 13:21

Then the people asked for a king, and he gave them Saul son of Kish, of the tribe of Benjamin, who ruled forty years.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


39. Hebrews 3:9

where your ancestors tested and tried me, though for forty years they saw what I did.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


40. Hebrews 3:17

And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations



This search was made using the NIV, RSV, KJV, American Standard Bible and the Complete Jewish Bible. All had exactly 40 occurrences of the phrase 40 years where the phrase referred to that definite period of time . The KJV had 41 occurrences.

This finding confirms my hypothesis, and indicates that the periods of 40 years were real - that is, they were literally 40 years long, and designed to be that way - by some supernatural agency..

A similar phenomenon appeared with regard to the miracles in the New Testament. In total there were 40 signs performed in the whole NT - and also 40 parables spoken

[Snakeboy]

Interesting that the first use of this mentions " Isaac " ( 40 years )

Here's why:

I've been looking at the concept of the " burnt offering " that was given for the " sin atonement " in the 1st Temple ( Solomon's Temple )

The first occurrence of the word for " burnt offering " is Genesis 2:22 ( where God tells Abraham to use Isaac for a burnt offering )

We already know that 222 is the value of " firstborn ", and " Isaac " was Abraham's firstborn

Well, the first use of the word " firstborn " in the Bible is Genesis 10:15 " And Canaan begat .."

Isaac was the only patriarch to stay in Canaan

Now, Richard has already identified 703 as the value for the Greek name " Canaan ", and we know this is part of the Genesis 1:1 " tiling "

( 666*3 ) + 703 = 2701

We know that the triangular 2701 just happens to have cardinality in Pi that sums as 666 as well

So it comes as no surprise that Genesis 22:7 is the verse where Isaac asks his father " where is the lamb for the burnt offering ? " ( ruh roh, Isaac...run )

22 / 7 = 3.14...( I'm not going to bother with the approximation symbol " ~ ", all values for pi are fundamentally approximations, regardless of how many digits )

Now according to the narrative in Genesis, " Isaac " was supposed to be the " burnt offering "

There are only four verse which sum with 6,666 gematria, and one of them happens to be a verse describing the basin at the Temple for washing the.....burnt offering

" And on the borders that were between the ledges were lions, oxen, and cherubims: and upon the ledges there was a base above: and beneath the lions and oxen were certain additions made of thin work. "

1 Kings 7:29 = 6666 gematria

Now, if Genesis 22:7 ( Pi ) refers to Isaac asking " where is the lamb for the burnt offering ? ", and Genesis 22:7 is 555th verse, then it's likely not " coincidence " that the 666th verse refers to the age of Abraham at death.

( 666 / 555 )* 1.618*1.618 = 3.14

Let's stop here for a second and look at something...

I don't know if you noticed, but the word for " burnt offering " is defined as such:

`olah {o-law'} or עולה `owlah {o-law'} f act part of 05927; TWOT - 1624c,1624d; n f AV - burnt offering 264, burnt sacrifice 21, ascent 1, go up 1; 289 1) whole burnt offering 2) ascent, stairway, steps

Who else in the Bible says he will " go up " and " ascend " ?

" Lucifer ", in the Book of Isaiah

As per the BW database, the gematria of " I will ascend " = 106

Now, " Isaac " was Abraham's seed, .....yet by the traditional dogmatic teachings, the following are associated, sometimes even made out to be the same character

" lucifer " : " satan " : " the antichrist "

" seed " = 333, " I will ascend " = 106

333 / 106 = 3.14...

If you go back and look at the word " righteousness ", it is the 6,666th Hebrew word in the Concordance, and the first use of the word in scripture is

" And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. " ~ Genesis 15:6

-referring to Abraham

Now, the " sin sacrifice ", the " burnt offering ", was washed first, then burnt for the offering

If we look at the values for " wash " and " burn ", we see they = 333 = the gematria of " seed " ( I know there are other values, but I'll get to that later )

If we look at the values for " young goat (gedi ) and " wash ", they have gematria = 17

Abraham's call from God starts in chapter 17, and he's told of the coming of Isaac in 17:17, yet ( 2701 / 1717 )*2 = 3.14..

I feel fairly safe saying that regardless of using a Lamb or Goat, the " sin offering " was to be the " firstling of the bullock "

You know as well as I do that that 144,000 / 666 = 216.216216216216

216 is the border count of the Genesis 1:1 figurate of 2701 having cardinality of 666 in Pi (3.14..)

Abraham is mentioned in 216 verses, yet the name is derived from the first word in the Concordance, strong's Hebrew # 0001

" light, lightning, light-bringer, sun , etc " is the 216th Hebrew word in the Concordance, right ?

As per the BW database, the Ordinal value of Genesis 1:1 is 222, which is equivalent to the value for " firsborn "

The first word in Genesis 1:1 has the gematria 913, which is identical to the Greek Strong's rank for " lightning "( Strong's Greek 913 )

" Lightning " in Greek = " Barak "
" bless " in Hebrew = " Barak "

Considering that we are talking about " firstborn " and " first " occurrences ( concepts, words and characters ) these numerical coincidences surrounding Pi are really only reinforced by the fact that the 314th Greek word in the Concordance is " last "

The last chapter, last verse Vs the first chapter, first verse:

Revelation = 22:21
Genesis, Ord. = 222-1:1

Considering that the last chapter of Revelation , Greek, is where JC refers to himself as the " bright and morning star "( Lucifer ) which in Strong's Hebrew is the word having cardinality 216 " Light, etc " , which is the border count of the first verse in Genesis, there seems to be a little too much numerical consistency between things for this to be a product of statistics :rolleyes:

It's one thing to just point at these numbers and go " duuurrr, look they are the same !!! ", but these numbers link things which are linked in the actual textual narrative.

There are only a few ways to derive Pi using triple repunits, and they^^^ is them ( I could be wrong, show me if otherwise )

As far as the first digit occurrence of 666 in Pi ( not the cardinality of 2701, and not the 666th cardinality ) I showed you that it's cardinality in Pi, is the 2440th place.

666 <==> 2440

Look at the statements in Revelation 22:7 ( 3.14 ) ~ " I am coming soon "

Strong's Hebrew # 2440 = chiysh {kheesh} from 02439; TWOT - 631a; adv AV - soon 1; 1 1) quickly

~which is stated in Revelation 22.20 ( again, last chapter )

" He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. "

Strong's Greek # 2440

himation {him-at'-ee-on} from a presumed derivative of ennumi (to put on);; n n AV - garment 30, raiment 12, clothes 12, cloke 2, robe 2, vesture 2, apparel 1; 61 1) a garment (of any sort) 1a) garments, i.e. the cloak or mantle and the tunic 2) the upper garment, the cloak or mantle

This particular word is used to refer to the " garment " worn by JC, as well as other " garments ", right ?

Revelation 19:16 " And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. "

And JC is the one who ultimately took the place of the burnt offering " sin sacrifice " in the Temple, right ?

Just saying , Richard, there is quite a bit of consistency here with these numbers.

Obviously you saw that the two values for the " Ark " are related in Pi ( 343 at the 666th place ), and at the same time they bring up words and verse in Strong's pertaining to removing the veil, drawing back the curtain ( what was required to access the Ark in the Temple ), concealing and revealing a prophet, etc

It would be one thing if it was just consistency with numbers, but it is consistent with the objects, characters, and themes we find with the numbers as well.

And, yes, I will gladly present what I have found about Pi, when it is compiled and ready, I'm looking forward to discussing it :winking0071:

---------------

On another note, I was thinking about these " patterns " and what not, and the logic behind looking at/for them, and what exactly it means when something is not continuous, but rather a single occurrence, much like your Biblewheel structure and Holograph discoveries.

If the book and it's structure were meant to conceal something/s, and it was " divine " in origin, we'd have to first ask if the purpose for it ( concealing things ) was for everybody, or one individual, say, a character like JC.

Iirc, the book does allude something about this, in Revelation 5:5

If a " pattern " in something were continuous, say like every multiple of three on a number-line of consecutive integers, it would not be " hidden " at all

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24...

Who's to say that a " pattern " has to be a continuous function though ?

Obviously, it would be counter to the logic of trying to conceal something, as it would easily be found by any sort of rigorous analysis, right ?

Is there any sort of obvious pattern, or continuous function that describes the element of 666 in relation to it's set ( pi digits in base 10 ), ie 666 appearing every 300 places, etc ?

No, there is not, but yet what little I outlined above is consistently based on the relations between 666 and Pi

Where languages are concerned, and two entirely different languages, Hebrew and Greek, ( 3 if we include Aramaic ) and " concealing " and " hiding " things is the goal, then obviously, anything meant to be hidden is not going to be in plain sight.

Obviously the languages use things like acrostics, acronyms, temurah, etc, these were not obvious to everybody at once either.

A hidden " pattern " in this case may be more of a pattern of consistent methods of reference rather then something that is solely countable as a continuous numerical function.

The Biblewheel, for example, is not found in every book, nor are the Holographs, yet your Biblewheel is also based on 22/7 (3.14..)

But yet we can say that if the Biblewheel were contained in every chapter in the Book it would have been obvious to many, likely would have been discovered long ago, and therefore would not be considered " hidden ".

If it's supposed to be " hidden " in the book, but is easily found by men, then it's just as likely it was put there by men in the first place, therefore not likely " divine " in any way.

Then again, if " truth " is supposed to be axiomatic ( self-evident ) then why would it be hidden in the first place ?

.....Sounds like a setup to me >.>

Funny enough:

" Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. "

John 18:37 = 18x37 = 666

Anyway, pleasure chatting again

:yo:

[Craig.Paardekooper]

In summary

According to all the sources that I could find on Google, the major covenants between God and man found in the Old Testaments are -



Covenant
Scripture
Ussher Date


Noachic
Genesis
2348 B.C.


Abrahamic
Genesis
1921 B.C


Mosaic
Exodus
1491 B.C.


Davidic
Samuel
1054 B.C.


New Covenant
Jeremiah
626 B.C




The New Covenant is first mentioned in the OT in Jeremiah. The scripture - Jeremiah 31 v 31 - describes the New Covenant as -


"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which My covenant they brake, although I was an Husband unto them, saith the Lord: but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put My law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be My people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. "

Jeremiah began his ministry in 626 B.C. and preached for 40 years until the destruction of the first Temple.

2348 B.C. to 1921 B.C. = 427 years

1921 B.C. till 1491 B.C. = 430 years

1491 B.C. till 1055 B.C. = 436 years

1055 B.C. till 626 B.C. = 429 years


What is also interesting is that the main characteristics of the New Covenant are -

1. It would be an inward reality - rather than a ritual - I will put My law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts

2. There would be no more priesthood - And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord

3. Compassion and forgiveness


These are the very things that characterised the new consciousness that sprang up in all the centres of civilization during the axial age.


So remarkably, the OT embodies a Covenant Cycle of 430 years. All the OT covenants from Noah to Jeremiah fall into this pattern.

Scripture is explicit in defining some of these cycles. -

A. It tells us that there were exactly 430 years from the date that Abraham entered Canaan until the Exodus.
B. Further, the Bible tells us that there were 480 years from the Exodus until the 4th year of Solomon's reign. Since this was 44 years after David began to reign, that means there were 436 years from the Exodus to David.

The kinglists of Judah's kings show that there were 430 years from the beginning of Solomon's reign until the Siege of Jerusalem in 586 B.C. And Jeremiah began his ministry exactly 40 years before that. So from the beginning of David's reign until the beginning of Jeremiah's ministry there are 430 years.

So the duration of two of these cycles is explicitly stated in Scripture. And a third one is easily calculated by adding the reigns of the Judean kings.

The duration of the cycle from Noah to Abraham was calculated by Ussher to be 2348 - 1921 = 427 years. This was based on the fact that in Acts it states that Abraham entered Caanaan after his father died. We can easily calculate when Terah died from these numbers -


11 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward,[a] they found a plain in Shinar[b] and settled there.

3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel[c]—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

From Shem to Abram

10 This is the account of Shem’s family line.

Two years after the flood, when Shem was 100 years old, he became the father[d] of Arphaxad. 11 And after he became the father of Arphaxad, Shem lived 500 years and had other sons and daughters.

12 When Arphaxad had lived 35 years, he became the father of Shelah. 13 And after he became the father of Shelah, Arphaxad lived 403 years and had other sons and daughters.[e]

14 When Shelah had lived 30 years, he became the father of Eber. 15 And after he became the father of Eber, Shelah lived 403 years and had other sons and daughters.

16 When Eber had lived 34 years, he became the father of Peleg. 17 And after he became the father of Peleg, Eber lived 430 years and had other sons and daughters.

18 When Peleg had lived 30 years, he became the father of Reu. 19 And after he became the father of Reu, Peleg lived 209 years and had other sons and daughters.

20 When Reu had lived 32 years, he became the father of Serug. 21 And after he became the father of Serug, Reu lived 207 years and had other sons and daughters.

22 When Serug had lived 30 years, he became the father of Nahor. 23 And after he became the father of Nahor, Serug lived 200 years and had other sons and daughters.

24 When Nahor had lived 29 years, he became the father of Terah. 25 And after he became the father of Terah, Nahor lived 119 years and had other sons and daughters.

26 After Terah had lived 70 years, he became the father of Abram, Nahor and Haran.

Abram’s Family

27 This is the account of Terah’s family line.

Terah became the father of Abram, Nahor and Haran. And Haran became the father of Lot. 28 While his father Terah was still alive, Haran died in Ur of the Chaldeans, in the land of his birth. 29 Abram and Nahor both married. The name of Abram’s wife was Sarai, and the name of Nahor’s wife was Milkah; she was the daughter of Haran, the father of both Milkah and Iskah. 30 Now Sarai was childless because she was not able to conceive.

31 Terah took his son Abram, his grandson Lot son of Haran, and his daughter-in-law Sarai, the wife of his son Abram, and together they set out from Ur of the Chaldeans to go to Canaan. But when they came to Harran, they settled there.

32 Terah lived 205 years, and he died in Harran.


So the duration from the Flood to the death of Terah = 2 + 35 + 30 + 34 + 30 + 32 + 30 + 29 + 205 = 427 years

I find it very curious that the Scriptures manifest this repeating cycle several times. And it is odd that it separates every major Covenant in sequence. At the time of the destruction of Jerusalem in 586 B.C., Ezekiel announced a final period of 430 years that was to encompass the Times of the Gentiles.

[Craig.Paardekooper]

A common feature of the Bible appears to be group judgement. That is, God appears to punish an entire group sometimes for sin accumulated over more than one lifetime.

An example of this would be the judgement passed upon the Canaanites. The Bible says that God waited patiently 430 years for their sin to reach its full measure. Taking this literally would mean that over several lifetimes, a group of people were accumulating sin which eventually led to their judgement after 430 years.

Such a phenomena would require that a soul can accumulate sin over more than one lifetime, and that souls tend to incarnate into the same ethnic or tribal groups.

We find group judgement occurring at other places in the Bible

God is said to have brought judgement against the Jews for their apostasy which resulted in the destruction of the first Temple and the captivity of the Jews in Babylon. Ezekiel indicates that this judgement was for 390 + 40 years of apostasy. Obviously such apostasy was carried out over many lifetimes, but the judgement fell upon one generation. This only makes sense if those judged were those who sinned - over many lifetimes, and incarnated into the same group at that time.

A third example would be the judgement brought against Jerusalem by the Romans, as foretold by Jesus 40 years earlier. Jesus's rhetoric suggested a group judgement when he spoke of "this generation" being more sinful than Sodom and Gomorrah, and when Jesus spoke of the future destruction of Jerusalem as a consequence of them not recognising his coming.

It is also worth noting that from the time of the Flood of Noah until the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah there were also 430 years.

So I would like to put forward a set of propositions -

1. That God allows souls to accumulate sin or merit over multiple lifetimes
2. That souls tend to incarnate into groups/ tribes because they are bonded

This would explain much of the Bible which otherwise might appear unjust.

In summary

For a long time, perhaps 2 years, I was greatly distressed by the fact that the God of the Bible ordered the slaughter of the children of Canaan. Even though the Canaanites are described as a sinful people, how could the children share in their punishment? Surely this was unjust of God to punish the children?

Another puzzling fact was that God states that He waited 430 years for the sin of the Canaanites to reach its full measure. An individual can only be held responsible for their own sin, so how could they accumulate it over 430 years.... over several lifetimes? Why should the punishment/judgement fall upon a single generation for all the transgressions over 430 years.

The answer seems unavoidable....that souls are incarnated multiple times into the same tribe or culture - perhaps to complete some work or task. In a sense they are incarnated as a group, being perhaps bonded together by affiliation, or by oath, or spiritual allegiance. And over several lifetimes they accumulate merit or sin.

Then I became aware of a tendency in cases of reincarnation - such that the person is often reincarnated into a group that is connected to their previous incarnation - the same people coming back over and over again.

That's why in the Bible there is this recurring cycle of 430 years

From the Judgement of the Flood until the judgement of Sodom and Gomorrah there were 430 years
From the Sodom and Gomorrah until the Plagues brought against Egypt there were 430 years
From the Egyptian plagues until King David brought judgement upon the Philistines there were 430 years
From King David until the judgement of the Babylonian Captivity there were 430 years.

It is feels like a repeating cycle made explicit for our benefit, so that we could realise that God rules with a hand of justice that spans lifetimes - a great cycle of the comings and goings of souls.

[Craig.Paardekooper]

The idea that people come back multiple times to the same tribe or group...During one lifetime you begin things that are not completed. It would only be just for a person to come back to the same field or group or tribe and carry on their work and bring it to completion.

It is impossible to learn something in one lifetime. Everything is too fragmentary. Learning is over many lifetimes. And the work of one generation builds upon the work and sacrifice of the previous one.

In anyone lifetime, each person contributes something to the functioning and welfare of the whole and makes progress possible.

According to the Bible, periodically the whole is judged - Flood 430 Sodom 430 Exodus 430 David 430 Babylon.

[Craig.Paardekooper]

When Moses went up the mountain to receive the Law, many Israelites at the base of the mountain began to worship the golden calf. As punishment Moses ordered the death of those people, and 3000 died. This event took place on the first Pentecost after the first ever Passover. I always felt that Moses actions were too severe - putting to death people who just happened to have an alternate religious belief - even though it was God's command - it still seemed unfair and severe.

Fast forward to the final Passover - the Passover of Christ. On the first pentecost after this final passover we read that 3000 were filled with the Spirit and received new life.

Maybe this parallelism is more than just a simple repeating pattern. God took the lives of the 3000 apostates, but may have done so to give them a better chance at a later time. He can take lives, but He can also restore lives. Could he not have brought all of those souls back in the time of Jesus to receive new life, on the same appointed day - the last Passover mirroring the first. The time between being 1480 years.

In a similar way, just as Joshua entered the Promised Land and eradicated the men, women and children of the 7 Canaanite tribes, so after Christ we find that 7 churches were established in Asia Minor - as is recorded in the Book of Revelation.

It occurs to me that God's ways are barely discernable from a single point in time, since He weaves together the past, present and future.

[sylvius]

When Moses went up the mountain to receive the Law, many Israelites at the base of the mountain began to worship the golden calf. As punishment Moses ordered the death of those people, and 3000 died. This event took place on the first Pentecost after the first ever Passover. I always felt that Moses actions were too severe - putting to death people who just happened to have an alternate religious belief - even though it was God's command - it still seemed unfair and severe.

It was not on the day of Pentecost (6 th day of Sivan) but 41 days later (17th of Tammuz)

Exodus 32
https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9893/showrashi/true

v. 1,
When the people saw that Moses was late in coming down from the mountain, the people gathered against Aaron, and they said to him: "Come on! Make us gods that will go before us, because this man Moses, who brought us up from the land of Egypt we don't know what has become of him."

Rashi:

When Moses went up the mountain, he said to them [the Israelites], "At the end of forty days I will come, within six hours" [from sunrise of the fortieth day]. They thought that the day he went up was included in the number [of the forty days], but [in fact] he had said to them, "forty days", [meaning] complete [days], including the night.

v.28,
The sons of Levi did according to Moses' word; on that day some three thousand men fell from among the people.

[sylvius]

Exodus 12:37 reads

The children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot, the men, besides the young children.

3000 = (1/200 x 600000)