Confused About Gematria Numbers Being Different

[guy123]

I am new at this so I do not know a bunch related to Gematria numbers.

I am Confused About Gematria Numbers Being Different when you click on the strongs link. For example:

On page
http://www.biblewheel.com/Gr/GR_Database.asp?SearchBy_Gematria=501

there is a list of words that are suppose to have a Gematria of 501 but when you click on the Strongs Concordance link and the text link the Gematria value read a different value than 501. For instance the word "abomination" is on the list for having a value of 501 but the work in two places has Strongs links that give the word "abomination" different Gematria values one says " H8263 sheqets / abomination" and the value on the popup page is 490 and when you click on the "First Occ." column link for the scripture verse "Isa 66:17" the value for the word phrase "and the abomination," reads 490.

Then the word "abomination" again appears and the Strongs link Gematria values says "H8251 shiqquwts / abomination" and the value on the popup page is 496 and when you click on the "First Occ." column link for the scripture verse "Dan 11:31" the value for the word phrase "the abomination," reads 496.

I find stuff like this much of the time so I am confused as to what the true value is and is it of a word or a phrase. Please help!

Thanks

In Christ

Guy Te

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I am new at this so I do not know a bunch related to Gematria numbers.

I am Confused About Gematria Numbers Being Different when you click on the strongs link. For example:

On page
http://www.biblewheel.com/Gr/GR_Database.asp?SearchBy_Gematria=501

there is a list of words that are suppose to have a Gematria of 501 but when you click on the Strongs Concordance link and the text link the Gematria value read a different value than 501. For instance the word "abomination" is on the list for having a value of 501 but the work in two places has Strongs links that give the word "abomination" different Gematria values one says " H8263 sheqets / abomination" and the value on the popup page is 490 and when you click on the "First Occ." column link for the scripture verse "Isa 66:17" the value for the word phrase "and the abomination," reads 490.

Then the word "abomination" again appears and the Strongs link Gematria values says "H8251 shiqquwts / abomination" and the value on the popup page is 496 and when you click on the "First Occ." column link for the scripture verse "Dan 11:31" the value for the word phrase "the abomination," reads 496.

I find stuff like this much of the time so I am confused as to what the true value is and is it of a word or a phrase. Please help!

Thanks

In Christ

Guy Te
Hi Guy,

Welcome to our forum!

:welcome:

I am glad you asked these questions. Many other folks are sure to benefit by the answers.

Things should become clear when you understand how the data is being presented. The Concordance is a dictionary, which means that nouns are listed in the nominative case, and verbs in the infinitive case. When a noun corresponding to a given Strong's number is actually written in Scripture, it could be in any case (accusative, dative, etc) and a verb could be in any tense, mood, or voice. This means that the the words as written in Scripture will be spelt differently than the dictionary definition, and since the numerical values depend on the spelling, the values will differ too.

To take the example you gave, the Strong's definition of the noun

שקץ sheqets {sheh'-kets} from 08262; TWOT - 2459a,2459b; n m AV - abomination 9, abominable 2; 11 1) detestable thing or idol, an unclean thing, an abomination, detestation
The value of this noun in the nominative case is 300 (Shin) + 100 (Quph) + 90 (Tzaddi) = 490. But when it is used in Daniel 11:31 it is prefixed with a Hey to indicate the definite article "the" and it also has a Vav inserted, which is called the "Plene" spelling. Thus, its value is 501.

To sum up, the Strong's entries give you the value of the "dictionary form" and the table called "Original Text" gives you the values of the specific forms used in the actual verses of Scripture.

I hope this is clear. I expect there will be more to discuss. I look forward to helping any way I can.

Many blessings in Christ,

Richard





or any the words are list of words that sum to a given number (501 in your example) is a list of the words as they are found written in the Bible. These values are usually different than the "dictionary form" of the same words because the words are

[guy123]

Great answer. Now I get it, mostly. Thanks!

I got it except for a few clarifications:

1.
When you said "Original Text" table you were referring to the page I gave being an "Original Text" page; the page I gave was
"http://www.biblewheel.com/Gr/GR_Database.asp?SearchBy_Gematria=501"

it does not say "Original Text" but on the page with the verse
"http://www.biblewheel.com/Gr/GR_Database.asp?bnum=27&cnum=11&vnum=31"

it says "Original Text" and when you click on the "501" in the column it comes up with the page I gave so what you are saying the page I gave is an "Original Text" page, though it does not say "Original Text" on the page, correct?

2.
Also you are saying the original text page has the true value of the word/phrase in the scriptures, correct?

3.
Also you are saying the dictionary values are useful if you want just the raw noun value of the Hebrew or Greek word apart from a particular scripture, correct?

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Great answer. Now I get it, mostly. Thanks!

I got it except for a few clarifications:

Great! I am glad it helped.



1.
When you said "Original Text" table you were referring to the page I gave being an "Original Text" page; the page I gave was
"http://www.biblewheel.com/Gr/GR_Database.asp?SearchBy_Gematria=501"

it does not say "Original Text" but on the page with the verse
"http://www.biblewheel.com/Gr/GR_Database.asp?bnum=27&cnum=11&vnum=31"

it says "Original Text" and when you click on the "501" in the column it comes up with the page I gave so what you are saying the page I gave is an "Original Text" page, though it does not say "Original Text" on the page, correct?

Correct ... i think ... :rolleyes:

The page (http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Database.asp?Gem_Num=501) that lists all the words with a given value does not have the "Original Text" table. That table is seen on the verse analysis page, such as this one:

http://www.biblewheel.com/Gr/GR_Database.asp?bnum=27&cnum=11&vnum=31

The table on the left gives the Strong's Numbers, and the table on the right gives the values of the "Original Text".



2.
Also you are saying the original text page has the true value of the word/phrase in the scriptures, correct?

Yes ... the numerical values of the words as written in the Bible are displayed in the "Original Text" table.



3.
Also you are saying the dictionary values are useful if you want just the raw noun value of the Hebrew or Greek word apart from a particular scripture, correct?
Yes - they are useful because in my studies I have concluded that the primary (or most obvious?) patterns are based on the nominative case of nouns. Unfortunately, the case of verbs is much more complex and I have not come to a conclusion about them as yet.

It is good chatting,

Richard

[guy123]

Thanks! Things are clear to me here.

God Bless