the keyword is "terem" = not yetGeert van den Bos wrote: Sun Oct 26, 2025 10:51 pmGreekGlen wrote: Sun Oct 26, 2025 8:19 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKpcvKQnREY
Bk 4 John 17:24
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am;
that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Πάτερ, ὃ δέδωκάς μοι, θέλω ἵνα ὅπου εἰμὶ ἐγὼ κἀκεῖνοι ὦσιν μετ' ἐμοῦ, ἵνα θεωρῶσιν τὴν δόξαν τὴν ἐμὴν ἣν δέδωκάς μοι, ὅτι ἠγάπησάς με πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου.
makes think of Jewish prayer "adon olam"
"adon olam asher malach beterem kol yetzir nivra"
eternal master who reigned when nothing had yet been created
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adon_Olam
it is also used in this Hebrew translation of John 17:24, https://www.sarshalom.us/resources/scri ... hn.html#17
for πρὸ in ὅτι ἠγάπησάς με πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου.
כִּי אָהַבְתָּ אֹתִי טֶרֶם הִוָּסֵד אָרֶץ
Rashi explained in his commentary on Genesis 2:5,
https://www.sefaria.org/Genesis.2.5?lan ... 1&lang2=bi
Wherever טרם occurs in the Scriptures it means “not yet” and does not mean “before”. It cannot be made into a verbal form, saying הטרים as one says הקדים (verbal form of קדם) and this passage proves that this is the meaning and not "before".
it is about the אֵ֖ד
mentioned in Genesis 2:6
it came up when nothing had yet grown, because God יהוה had not sent rain upon the earth and there were no human beings to till the soil
LXX translated אֵ֖ד with πηγὴ
5καὶ πᾶν χλωρὸν ἀγροῦ πρὸ τοῦ γενέσθαι ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς καὶ πάντα χόρτον ἀγροῦ πρὸ τοῦ ἀνατεῖλαι· οὐ γὰρ ἔβρεξεν ὁ θεὸς ἐπὶ τὴν γῆν, καὶ ἄνθρωπος οὐκ ἦν ἐργάζεσθαι τὴν γῆν, 6πηγὴ δὲ ἀνέβαινεν ἐκ τῆς γῆς καὶ ἐπότιζεν πᾶν τὸ πρόσωπον τῆς γῆς.
πηγὴ also in Revelation 21:6,
καὶ εἶπέν μοι, Γέγοναν. ἐγώ [εἰμι] τὸ Ἄλφα καὶ τὸ Ὦ, ἡ ἀρχὴ καὶ τὸ τέλος. ἐγὼ τῷ διψῶντι δώσω ἐκ τῆς πηγῆς τοῦ ὕδατος τῆς ζωῆς δωρεάν
https://biblehub.com/revelation/21-6.htm