Cherry Picking: A Fundamental Cognitive Error

[bluetriangle]

I "reject the whole concept of that kind of code" because is is not a "code" at all, in the sense that the information you extract from it is not actually contained in it. The "code" merely creates a set of numerical bins into which you place cherry picked words and phrases that match. There is nothing that necessitates any particular interpretation. It does not contain enough information to determine any actual message. Now consider this: devout believers cannot find agreement on the plain words that are actually given in the text. What good is a "code" that is a thousand times more ambiguous than the plain words that God inspired?

As I said, it's detective work, not the Enigma code. Its inductive reasoning based on hints and clues. But crimes are solved that way and courts can adjudicate based on evidence that accumulates and allows a verdict that is 'beyond reasonable doubt', the highest standard of proof in law.

It's not proof in the sense of a mathematical theorem, but then neither is your own work. The factors of the Shema, 2, 13, and 43, could have been a fluke. or a deliberate insertion by a later editor, post-alphabetic substitution. I doubt it, but it's possible. Moreover, there are other words and phrases that sum to 559, 86, 26, and 13. Chagab/grasshopper sums to 13. You run into the same problem as I do. Can we be sure those numbers point to those words? In enumerating, you have lost information. You then factories the number, multiply pairs of factors and assign words to them. It's compelling because it's tightly woven, but it isn't certain because there was a loss of information.

From an information theory point of view you have a powerful argument (if a little overstated!). Nearly all the information is lost, yes. And the potential for misinterpretation is great, yes. But the code (if I can continue to call it that) consists not of encoded numbers but firstly of patterns of encoded numbers. A single encoded number (eg 515 (Jesus) in words 1 to 12) means nothing on its own. But regular patterns of encoded numbers related by meaning are more substantial and statistically improbable.

Secondly, the codes are often independently validated by other encoding methods. Two independently derived codes that support each other are much more difficult to dismiss.

The table and supporting ELS code below give an example.

Note:
1. The ark was the only object in the Most Holy Place, except on Yom Kippur, when the altar of Incense was also included (Hebrews 9).
2. These particular names are only found in the NIV '84, so the code is self-referential.
3. The skip interval of the ELS code is 37 and 'Ark of the Testimony' is encoded over 37 words.
4. The other three names are encoded over a little pattern of 14, 24 and 34 words.
5. ARK HERE ends on the 115th letter (Yehoshua HaMashiach (o)).
6. This is also the 27th word. The Ark (r) = 27.
7. These names are all pinned to the beginning of the NIV, greatly reducing the risk of cherry picking.
8. There is no connection between gematria and ELS codes. They exist independently of each other.
9. Ark of the Testimony' is the first formal title for the ark used the NIV (Ex. 25.22). Primacy is an important principle in the code.
10. The names are without the definite article ('the'). Consistency is also an important principle.

Hopefully you can see how these encodings support each other. They also point to Yom Kippur, a major theme of the code (9/11 symbolized the rite of atonement).

[RAMcGough]

As I said, it's detective work, not the Enigma code. Its inductive reasoning based on hints and clues. But crimes are solved that way and courts can adjudicate based on evidence that accumulates and allows a verdict that is 'beyond reasonable doubt', the highest standard of proof in law.

Hey there Bill,

Yeah, I understand your method and am enjoying working with you to see if it can be established "beyond a reasonable doubt".

It's not proof in the sense of a mathematical theorem, but then neither is your own work. The factors of the Shema, 2, 13, and 43, could have been a fluke. or a deliberate insertion by a later editor, post-alphabetic substitution. I doubt it, but it's possible. Moreover, there are other words and phrases that sum to 559, 86, 26, and 13. Chagab/grasshopper sums to 13. You run into the same problem as I do. Can we be sure those numbers point to those words? In enumerating, you have lost information. You then factories the number, multiply pairs of factors and assign words to them. It's compelling because it's tightly woven, but it isn't certain because there was a loss of information.

You are correct that without the evidence I show below, the factors of the Shema could have been a fluke. But it simply is not true to say that the Unity Holograph was cherry picked like your work. I do not "run into the same problem" as you because the values of echad = 13, YHVH=26, and YHVH echad = 39 = 3 x 13 are all found within the verse itself. If you really wanted to quibble, you could focus on the fact that the exact spelling of "Elohim" is not in the verse, but that seems irrational given that "Eloheino" (our God) is in that verse and is cognate with Elohim (86) and which natural coheres with the sum of the entire Shema:

Sum of Shema = 1118 = 13 (ONE) x 86 (GOD)

The sum of the entire verse encodes the meaning of the entire verse! And it echoes the Trinity in the equation "The Lord is one = 39 = 3 x 13 (ONE)." It is self-reflective in a very beautiful and self-evident & self-confirming way. If ever there were anything in our study of gematria that could be established "beyond a reasonable doubt" I would say it is the encoding of the Shema with the value of it's central clam, ECHAD!

But this is just the beginning. The word echad is immediately followed in the next verse by "v'ahavta" (And thou shalt love) from the root AHAVAH = LOVE = 13 and we see one of greatest revelations in the entire Bible LOVE = 13 = UNITY encoded in the Shema which both the Jews and Jesus agree is the "greatest commandment." The Triune God designed the Hebrew language to encode the Trinity - the TRI-UNITY of LOVE. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. And the overflow of revelation continues in the structure of Scripture, where we find the LOVE CHAPTER in the 13 verses of the 13th chapter of 1 Corinthians, with the 13th verse explicitly patterned on THREE and ONE! "And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love."

This UNITY is truly divine. It is geometric, algebraic, theological, and common sense, since everyone knows LOVE = UNITY! Like Bob Marley singing "ONE LOVE". Let us all come together in Love and the Unity of the faith.

Now getting back to your critique - there is one and exactly one point of "cherry picking" you can focus on, as I admitted in an earlier post. The value 559. I agree that on this ONE POINT I face the same kind of problem that you face throughout your work. But it's much less pronounced since I restricted the search to a prominent title of God, in keeping with the other two values 26 and 86 and the dignity, preeminence and holiness of the Shema. With this restriction, it is not true that there any any, let alone many, possible titles to choose. As far as I know, Ho Pater is the ONLY prominent title of God with the value 559 in the entire Bible. It completes the Shema and gives me an unshakeable confidence that it was indeed designed by the Triune God who used very similar methods elsewhere in His Word. The number 13 = S(2) = 2nd star number, of the same class as the primes used in Genesis 1:1. And like 37 and 73, it is an ABSOLUTE PRIME (aka permutable prime, only seven such classes exist). And even more significant, the Greek agape (love) = 93 = 3 x 31 is the mirror of YHVH echad = 39 = 3 x13 and this pair of symmetric semiprimes yield the value of John 1:1

Genesis 1: 1 = 37 x 73
John 1:1 = 39 x 93

Genesis 1:1 + John 1:1 = 6328 = T(112) and 112 = YHVH ELOHIM = 2x13 + 2x86 FROM THE SHEMA!!!

This is the continuous unified thematic, theological, self-evident divine design of the Holy Word. There is no doubt about any of it. Is shines with the light of ten thousand suns. And yet this is but a tiny sliver of the glory encoded in His Word! It's a mystery that God could keep it hidden for so long.

This is proof. It's a million miles beyond any shadow of doubt.

From an information theory point of view you have a powerful argument (if a little overstated!). Nearly all the information is lost, yes. And the potential for misinterpretation is great, yes. But the code (if I can continue to call it that) consists not of encoded numbers but firstly of patterns of encoded numbers. A single encoded number (eg 515 (Jesus) in words 1 to 12) means nothing on its own. But regular patterns of encoded numbers related by meaning are more substantial and statistically improbable.

Overstated? How could you say such a thing? I've never overstated anything, not once since the day I was born. It is contrary to the very essence of my soul!

But seriously ...

I'm glad you understand my point. But it's not a slam-dunk. It's important to remember we all have tiny little pea brains, as I just demonstrated quite spectacularly with my assertion that God only had 28 choices for the 28 letters of Genesis 1:1 when in fact He had 28^22 = 3.8 x 10^37 choices! I was only off by 37 orders of magnitude. I think that God put that number there just to tease me.

Lesson learned (again)! We all must walk very humbly. Especially since we are standing upon Holy Ground, touching the Bible which is the Word of God (like Moses before the Burning Bush). We must treat it with infinite respect it deserves. And we must be very respectful to each other.

Secondly, the codes are often independently validated by other encoding methods. Two independently derived codes that support each other are much more difficult to dismiss.

The table and supporting ELS code below give an example.

Note:
1. The ark was the only object in the Most Holy Place, except on Yom Kippur, when the altar of Incense was also included (Hebrews 9).
2. These particular names are only found in the NIV '84, so the code is self-referential.
3. The skip interval of the ELS code is 37 and 'Ark of the Testimony' is encoded over 37 words.
4. The other three names are encoded over a little pattern of 14, 24 and 34 words.
5. ARK HERE ends on the 115th letter (Yehoshua HaMashiach (o)).
6. This is also the 27th word. The Ark (r) = 27.
7. These names are all pinned to the beginning of the NIV, greatly reducing the risk of cherry picking.
8. There is no connection between gematria and ELS codes. They exist independently of each other.
9. Ark of the Testimony' is the first formal title for the ark used the NIV (Ex. 25.22). Primacy is an important principle in the code.
10. The names are without the definite article ('the'). Consistency is also an important principle.

Hopefully you can see how these encodings support each other. They also point to Yom Kippur, a major theme of the code (9/11 symbolized the rite of atonement).

Yes, that's a very important point. For example, I did not appreciate Leo's derivation of 37073 from the digits of pi because it felt like an arbitrary connection that had nothing but the digits in common with the Genesis 1:1 primes. But then he showed how 37073 + Genesis 1:1 + John 1:1 = 111 (Aleph) x 391 (Yehoshua) and then T333 etc. It's the integration of multiple independent witnesses that I find very convincing. It's what I mean by "holograph".

Now as for the ELS patterns, they are much more difficult to statistically evaluate but I'm very happy to dig into it with you as time permits. The problem, of course, is that lots of people just look for "hits" but don't put in any effort to see if they are part of a larger mutually supporting system that can yield a verdict "beyond reasonable doubt".

Great chatting, as always, my friend.

[RAMcGough]

The table and supporting ELS code below give an example.

Note:
1. The ark was the only object in the Most Holy Place, except on Yom Kippur, when the altar of Incense was also included (Hebrews 9).
2. These particular names are only found in the NIV '84, so the code is self-referential.
3. The skip interval of the ELS code is 37 and 'Ark of the Testimony' is encoded over 37 words.
4. The other three names are encoded over a little pattern of 14, 24 and 34 words.
5. ARK HERE ends on the 115th letter (Yehoshua HaMashiach (o)).
6. This is also the 27th word. The Ark (r) = 27.
7. These names are all pinned to the beginning of the NIV, greatly reducing the risk of cherry picking.
8. There is no connection between gematria and ELS codes. They exist independently of each other.
9. Ark of the Testimony' is the first formal title for the ark used the NIV (Ex. 25.22). Primacy is an important principle in the code.
10. The names are without the definite article ('the'). Consistency is also an important principle.

Hopefully you can see how these encodings support each other. They also point to Yom Kippur, a major theme of the code (9/11 symbolized the rite of atonement).

Bill,

I just went through this page https://www.thesecretcode.co.uk/page_4952599 where you display the ELS codes and conclude that "the code is so improbable as to be effectively certain."

Have you heard of "proof by contradiction"? It's a very popular method used by professional mathematicians and philosophers. You simply start by assuming the truth of a proposition and if you can show it leads to a false conclusion, then the proposition must be false. It's similar to Christ's epistemology - ye shall know a tree by its fruit. This is the fast way settle the question about your "New Bible Code". Let's look at the ten claims you make on that page:

1. The Second Coming of Jesus Christ has occurred.
2. The Second Coming was presented to the world as a drama: the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.
3. Jesus Christ returned as two men.
4. 9/11 was an atonement sacrifice.
5. 9/11 was the conception of the male child.
6. The Image of the male child is the New Bible Code.
7. Premillennialism was eschatologically correct.
8. The Great Tribulation began with the Covid-19 Pandemic
9. The War in Gaza is Daniel's 'appointed time of the end'
10. The male child will guide mankind through The Tribulation

Under point 9, you claimed that "The war is the opening of the second seal in Revelation 6. Israel's assault on Gaza began on 27/10/23 after an attack on 7/10/23 by Hamas. It is also the beginning of World War III."

WWIII didn't start then. Have you modified your prediction?

And the Covid pandemic - do you still believe it was the beginning of the "Great Tribulation"? It started six years ago! And it's been basically over for three years now (on May 5, 2023 the WHO said it no longer constituted a Public Health Emergency).

I'm sorry, but none of your claims strike me as rational, let alone true. And worse, they are totally disconnected from the the plain teaching of the Bible on many points. Christ did not "return as two men"! I have not been "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" in Bin Laden and the Pope! The events around 9/11 did not fulfill the prophecies about the second coming. Have you not read the Bible for what it actually says and means? How does the "New Bible Code" interpret the many passages that speak of the glory of His Coming? Like this one:

2 Thessalonians 1:3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

The invention of your "New Bible Code" looks like a direct consequence of your habitual use of intellectually invalid and indefensible methods of "decoding" the Bible based on cherry picking, six methods of gematria, and private idiosyncratic interpretations that no one but you could ever have imagined. Your theories have ZERO support from the Bible or the historical Body of Christ! Millions of devoted Christians have studied the Bible over the millennia. I cannot image even one agreeing with your ten points.

Forgive me for speaking so plainly. Please take no offense as none is intended. I'm speaking to you as to a man who has made some exceedingly outrageous claims. I'm using language that matches the implications of those claims.

God bless you and guide you. I pray the Lord helps us all discern and declare the truth of His Word. Amen.

Richard

[bluetriangle]

I just went through this page https://www.thesecretcode.co.uk/page_4952599 where you display the ELS codes and conclude that "the code is so improbable as to be effectively certain."

Yes, I believe it is effectively certain, in that it exists, but my interpretations are another matter and I constantly fret over them.

Have you heard of "proof by contradiction"? It's a very popular method used by professional mathematicians and philosophers. You simply start by assuming the truth of a proposition and if you can show it leads to a false conclusion, then the proposition must be false.

Yes, reductio ad absurdum. that's how the ancient Greeks proved the sq. rt. 2 is irrational.

Under point 9, you claimed that "The war is the opening of the second seal in Revelation 6. Israel's assault on Gaza began on 27/10/23 after an attack on 7/10/23 by Hamas. It is also the beginning of World War III."

WWIII didn't start then. Have you modified your prediction?

No, it did start then, although it has been slow burning. There has been constant strife in the Middle East since 27/10/23. The war between Russia and Ukraine has raged since 24/2/22. Look at the last few days alone!

And the Covid pandemic - do you still believe it was the beginning of the "Great Tribulation"? It started six years ago! And it's been basically over for three years now (on May 5, 2023 the WHO said it no longer constituted a Public Health Emergency).

Covid was indeed the opening of the first seal and the beginning of the Great Tribulation (1/3/20 was the 7000th day of the thirdMillennium).
Rev. 6.2: I looked and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow and he was given a crown. and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest. 'Corona' means 'crown' and the coronavirus was the rider. Incidentally, Covid-19 was a bioweapon created in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, not a natural outbreak in China. I was warned by the Holy Spirit in January 2021 about the 'vaccines'. They are meant to bring death, not healing. I wrote down the entire sequence of words I received. It was prophesied in Rev. 18.23 By your magic spell all the nations were led astray. The Greek word for magic spell is the root of words like pharmaceutical, pharmacy, and of course Big Pharma. We are in the Great Tribulation, which is Satan's last stand.

I'm sorry, but none of your claims strike me as rational, let alone true. And worse, they are totally disconnected from the the plain teaching of the Bible on many points.

That depends on how you interpret the Bible.

Christ did not "return as two men"! I have not been "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" in Bin Laden and the Pope! The events around 9/11 did not fulfill the prophecies about the second coming. Have you not read the Bible for what it actually says and means?

Oh yes he did.

The invention of your "New Bible Code" looks like a direct consequence of your habitual use of intellectually invalid and indefensible methods of "decoding" the Bible based on cherry picking, six methods of gematria, and private idiosyncratic interpretations that no one but you could ever have imagined.

I didn't imagine any of it. It was beyond anything I could have imagined. I' not saying for a minute that all of my interpretations are correct, but on the whole, yes, I am correct. You simply don't know what I have been shown and what I've gone through. For example, in 2002 I was shown a vision of an Arabic man in white with a white Turban, obviously Osama bin Laden. Then he was replaced by a European man in white, with a white skull cap. This was Pope John Paul II. Underneath the vision were the words THIS IS JESUS. The night after the Pope died I had a dream of an old boss of mine (whom I loathed) walking past my wife and I at a local cemetery, heading north. This man had a big head, but when he passed us it became a Pope's mitre. Then My wife said "That's the Lord lost his hands and his feet". Popes bless with theyr hands and JPII travelled extensively. Th fact that this was a man with whom I had a very destructive relationship may have been incidental. or a comment on our resistance to spiritual authority.

Jesus returned as two men, one representing the justice of God, the other representing the mercy of God. Let me tell you about a 'big' dream I had in 2000, before I was given this assignment, but after I'd already had many spiritual experiences. This felt like the 'dream of my life'. I am Mr. Spock and I come down to Earth from an orbiting artificial moon (which looks like a cartoon version of the Moon). I have a difficult and dangerous mission: to tell people something they absolutely DO NOT want to hear, but which is the truth. I see myself telling crowds of people who then start to scream and cry then attack me. I am eventually thrown out of a building. There was more to it, but that was the essence of it. I'm past caring what people think or if they are willing to look at the code. I've given birth to it and it's now out there. It does need extensive reorganization and removal of material I wrote in a hurry or while I was low down on the learning curve.

Your theories have ZERO support from the Bible or the historical Body of Christ! Millions of devoted Christians have studied the Bible over the millennia. I cannot image even one agreeing with your ten points.

Not having popular support is no issue to me and I've never met two Christians who agreed on everything anyway. However, most Christians seem to me to be conformists, never deviating from orthodoxy. But which orthodoxy? How many denominations are there, each with their own understanding of Scripture. How many competing theological interpretations are there? How many eschatologies are there? The correct one, incidentally, is something close to premillennialism, although none of them are correct. And how they differ! Is it rational to believe the claims of some eschatologies? Or credible that people claiming to follow the same religion could also be, variously, preterists, premillenialists, postmillennialists, etc, etc, etc?

The problem has always been that people read the Bible far too literally! That goes for the plain reading of scripture, interpretation, everything. And it has led us down some very dark avenues. Did God create everything in six literal days? Of course not. You question my rationality, yet BILLIONS of Christians believe exactly that. They believe Adam and Eve were real people. Of course not. They believe literally what was always meant to be understood metaphorically. It's all symbolic, all of it. Yes, there is some history there, but there was no Garden of Eden (a metaphor for heaven), Jonah was not swallowed by a large fish and Jesus did not turn water into wine. That's a metaphor the Essenes use for the spiritual resurrection of a believer, turned into a simple, memorable teaching. Don't you think it odd that there were two Jesus's before Pilate? Jesus Christ and Jesus Barrabas? Barrabas means "Son of God", for Christ's sake! Religious fundamentalism is now destroying the world: Jewish, Christian and Islamic, and it's because people do not use the brains God gave them and believe the most stupidly literal teachings their equally brain-dead ministers and priests and Rabbis and Mullahs fill their heads with. It is an affront to God. It may have been okay to read the Bible literally 2000 years ago, but being stuck in the past is destroying us now.

Forgive me for speaking so plainly. Please take no offense as none is intended. I'm speaking to you as a man who has made some exceedingly outrageous claims in language that matches the implications of those claims.

There's nothing to forgive.

[bluetriangle]

It's not proof in the sense of a mathematical theorem, but then neither is your own work. The factors of the Shema, 2, 13, and 43, could have been a fluke. or a deliberate insertion by a later editor, post-alphabetic substitution. I doubt it, but it's possible. Moreover, there are other words and phrases that sum to 559, 86, 26, and 13. Chagab/grasshopper sums to 13. You run into the same problem as I do. Can we be sure those numbers point to those words? In enumerating, you have lost information. You then factories the number, multiply pairs of factors and assign words to them. It's compelling because it's tightly woven, but it isn't certain because there was a loss of information.

You are correct that without the evidence I show below, the factors o the Shema could have been a fluke. But it simply is not true to say that the Unity Holograph was cherry picked like your work. I do not "run into the same problem" as you because the values of echad = 13, YHVH=26, and YHVH echad = 39 = 3 x 13 are all found within the verse itself.

I hate to repeat this, but the Shema could also have been a later editorial change, post-alphabetic substitution. We know there are human-created codes in the Hebrew Bible (a numerical acrostic, sheshach for Babylon, giving a gematria number, etc), so it's possible.

The title 'Our Lord Jesus Christ' is found in the first verse of the Key, which sums to 1559, the same as 'Our Lord Jesus Christ'. By the same reasoning, I think that justifies the substitution of that title.

One of your criticisms of my comparing the code with the standard model of cryptography is that there was information loss in the conversion of words to numbers. I agree, but the Shema code is no different from, say the first 37 words of the NIV. Both suffer from information loss and I repeat: there will be many words and phrases that sum to 13, 26, 86 and 559. That can't be avoided. Moreover, the ELS code I found does not suffer from information loss, since the letters are already present, is based on the number 37, which we both agree is fundamental to our codes, and directly refers to the ark. On the other hand the words for God, Lord and One are all present in the Shema. I think both codes are real. You think only one is real. But it seems to me you are not applying the same standard of scrutiny to the Shema that you are to my own finding.

If you really wanted to quibble, you could focus on the fact that the exact spelling of "Elohim" is not in the verse, but that seems irrational given that "Eloheino" (our God) is in that verse and is cognate with Elohim (86) and which natural coheres with the sum of the entire Shema:

Sum of Shema = 1118 = 13 (ONE) x 86 (GOD)

The sum of the entire verse encodes the meaning of the entire verse!

I agree. It's neat, elegant and meaningful.

Now getting back to your critique - there is one and exactly one point of "cherry picking" you can focus on, as I admitted in an earlier post. The value 559. I agree that on this ONE POINT I face the same kind of problem that you face throughout your work. But it's much less pronounced since I restricted the search to a prominent title of God, in keeping with the other two values 26 and 86 and the dignity, preeminence and holiness of the Shema. With this restriction, it is not true that there any any, let alone many, possible titles to choose. As far as I know, Ho Pater is the ONLY prominent title of God with the value 559 in the entire Bible.

There are plenty of words and word constructs summing to 559. One of them is sarkikos/carnal. (G4559). So I don't accept your point here. To do gematria is to face the barrier of information loss. We can 'quantum tunnel' through it, but it's always there.

It completes the Shema and gives me an unshakeable confidence that it was indeed designed by the Triune God who used very similar methods elsewhere in His Word. The number 13 = S(2) = 2nd star number, of the same class as the primes used in Genesis 1:1. And like 37 and 73, it is an ABSOLUTE PRIME (aka permutable prime, only seven such classes exist). And even more significant, the Greek agape (love) = 93 = 3 x 31 is the mirror of YHVH echad = 39 = 3 x13 and this pair of symmetric semiprimes yield the value of John 1:1

Genesis 1: 1 = 37 x 73
John 1:1 = 39 x 93

Genesis 1:1 + John 1:1 = 6328 = T(112) and 112 = YHVH ELOHIM = 2x13 + 2x86 FROM THE SHEMA!!!

This is the continuous unified thematic, theological, self-evident divine design of the Holy Word. There is no doubt about any of it. Is shines with the light of ten thousand suns. And yet this is but a tiny sliver of the glory encoded in His Word! It's a mystery that God could keep it hidden for so long.

This is proof. It's a million miles beyond any shadow of doubt.

It's not Mathematical proof, just 'beyond reasonable doubt' proof, which is really just a compelling body of evidence.

Yes, that's a very important point. For example, I did not appreciate Leo's derivation of 37073 from the digits of pi because it felt like an arbitrary connection that had nothing but the digits in common with the Genesis 1:1 primes. But then he showed how 37073 + Genesis 1:1 + John 1:1 = 111 (Aleph) x 391 (Yehoshua) and then T333 etc. It's the integration of multiple independent witnesses that I find very convincing. It's what I mean by "holograph".

Leo's evidence doesn't convince me as much as it does you. I agree some of it is good, especially some of the geometric figures he's drawn, and the numbers 391, 888 etc, that he derived from them. But he also uses a hexagon of 37073 counters that is in fact an irregular figure, a big 'no no' for me. Also he derives 37073 from the mirroring of a number 16012 he got from the positions of the repdigits 111, etc, in pi. I have issues with that, since pi is fixed. It could be telling us something about the deep structure of numbers that the triple repdigits indexed in pi sum to a number that mirrors to 37073, but there are too many links in the chain for me.

Also the sum 37073 + G1.1 + J1.1 = 111 x 391 is a little dodgy too. It's easy to get impressive numbers and factors by addition. But it has to be supported by the geometry and 37073 is not a regular centred hexagon.

Now as for the ELS patterns, they are much more difficult to statistically evaluate but I'm very happy to dig into it with you as time permits. The problem, of course, is that lots of people just look for "hits" but don't put in any effort to see if they are part of a larger mutually supporting system that can yield a verdict "beyond reasonable doubt".

Great chatting, as always, my friend.

The skip interval is small and, notably, 37, so there aren't a huge number of possibilities. The Torah codes often use extremely large skip intervals. I restricted my search to the first 37 words of Genesis, at a skip interval of 37, and ARK HERE was just there! I've found a few of them and the skip interval is always part of it. Note too that it ends on the 115th letter and on the last letter of the 27th word, both related to the theme through gematria.

[RAMcGough]

Yes, I believe it is effectively certain, in that it exists, but my interpretations are another matter and I constantly fret over them.

Bill,

Thank you for your well-reasoned response. I am really glad we "talk like adults" about points of strong disagreement. It's a very rare virtue!

Do you realize that your interpretations are utterly independent of the the validity of the codes? It should go without saying that the interpretation of your codes is less certain than the interpretation of the plain text, and as you yourself noted below you've "never met two Christians who agreed on everything." So if that's true about the plain text, the problem of interpretating your codes is a thousand times worse, especially since they are largely based on private visionary experiences that no one can verify for themselves. And worse, they involve exceedingly idiosyncratic ideas that are completely foreign to the Body of Christ (the Church that has faithfully passed down his Word through history).

No, it did start then, although it has been slow burning. There has been constant strife in the Middle East since 27/10/23. The war between Russia and Ukraine has raged since 24/2/22. Look at the last few days alone!

Continuous strife in the Middle East since 27/10/23? Like there hasn't been continuous strife since the founding of Israel in 1948???

You are framing current events to fit your predictions. I've seen this error a hundred times over the span of my 66 years on this planet. End-timers have been using strife in the Middle East as "evidence" for their end-time theories since the founding of Israel. Here's a list of the top ten events that have been causing end-time hysteria in spanning the last 78 years:

1948 Arab-Israeli War
1956 Suez Crisis
1967 Six-Day War
1973 Yom Kippur War
1980-1988 Iran-Iraq War
1990-1991 Gulf War
2003 Invasion of Iraq
2011 Arab Spring Uprisings
2014 Rise of ISIS and Syrian Civil War
2023 Israel-Hamas War

Every prediction yet made has FAILED. They used to constantly talk about 70 years as the absolute limit since that was their interpretation of a "generation". Funny how you don't use that number anymore.

I used to habitually listen to Harold Camping (as entertainment and warning). He used numerology and his extremely idiosyncratic interpretations to predict, with absolute certainty, that the world would physically end on May 21, 2011. He said the only way his predictions could fail would be if the Bible failed. He was utterly deranged.

Covid was indeed the opening of the first seal and the beginning of the Great Tribulation (1/3/20 was the 7000th day of the thirdMillennium).
Rev. 6.2: I looked and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow and he was given a crown. and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest. 'Corona' means 'crown' and the coronavirus was the rider. Incidentally, Covid-19 was a bioweapon created in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, not a natural outbreak in China. I was warned by the Holy Spirit in January 2021 about the 'vaccines'. They are meant to bring death, not healing. I wrote down the entire sequence of words I received. It was prophesied in Rev. 18.23 By your magic spell all the nations were led astray. The Greek word for magic spell is the root of words like pharmaceutical, pharmacy, and of course Big Pharma. We are in the Great Tribulation, which is Satan's last stand.

Why did you choose 1/3/20? The WHO declared the pandemic on 3/11/2020.

Why do you think the Gregorian calendar date of 1/1/2000 was the start of the biblical third millennium? How could we possible know the real dates? We don't even know the date of the birth of Christ with any certainty. We have better info for the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. Does that number fit into your patterns?

It is interesting that the year number 20 links naturally to the 11th letter Kaph, which has a value 20 and does symbolize the crown/keter. I couldn't help but notice its link to the corona (crown) virus even though I was still lost in unbelief at that time. I wrote about the connection extensively in the Bible Wheel book because it correlated very well with Spoke 11.

https://www.biblewheel.com/Wheel/Spokes/Kaph_Crown.php

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As you can see, the symbology fits well with the idea of "the end" but I have no confidence that covid corresponds to the opening of the First Seal. Ironically, that would be a highly literalistic interpretation which is something you complain about below. I say "literalistic" in the sense that you interpret the symbols of Revelation in terms of literal physical things in our temporal experience here below. In other words, it's like you are treating Revelation as a script of a series of "end times" events. That's the most physical literalistic interpretation which is by no means the most likely in my estimation. Have you seen Steve Gregg's Revelation: Four Views? It's a parallel commentary that compares the four primary traditional views:

• Historicist
• Preterist
• Futurist
• Spiritualist

You seem to be squarely in the "futurist" camp. Is that correct?

I've always leaned towards a mix of all four, in descending order primality: Spiritualist (Gospel truth for all ages), Preterist (largely fulfilled in 70 AD), Historicist (correlation with Church age of Rev 3-4), and Futurist (highly speculative predictions of literal end-time events).

I do believe Covid was designed in the lab, and wouldn't be surprised if it was deliberately released in China though I have no evidence for that.

You are correct that "witchcraft" is pharmacia in Greek.

I'm sorry, but none of your claims strike me as rational, let alone true. And worse, they are totally disconnected from the the plain teaching of the Bible on many points.

That depends on how you interpret the Bible.

Indeed!

Christ did not "return as two men"! I have not been "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" in Bin Laden and the Pope! The events around 9/11 did not fulfill the prophecies about the second coming. Have you not read the Bible for what it actually says and means?

Oh yes he did.

There is no hint of your interpretation anywhere in the Bible. Not. One. Word.

The problem has always been that people read the Bible far too literally! That goes for the plain reading of scripture, interpretation, everything. And it has led us down some very dark avenues. Did God create everything in six literal days? Of course not. You question my rationality, yet BILLIONS of Christians believe exactly that. They believe Adam and Eve were real people. Of course not. They believe literally what was always meant to be understood metaphorically. It's all symbolic, all of it. Yes, there is some history there, but there was no Garden of Eden (a metaphor for heaven), Jonah was not swallowed by a large fish and Jesus did not turn water into wine. That's a metaphor the Essenes use for the spiritual resurrection of a believer, turned into a simple, memorable teaching. Don't you think it odd that there were two Jesus's before Pilate? Jesus Christ and Jesus Barrabas? Barrabas means "Son of God", for Christ's sake! Religious fundamentalism is now destroying the world: Jewish, Christian and Islamic, and it's because people do not use the brains God gave them and believe the most stupidly literal teachings their equally brain-dead ministers and priests and Rabbis and Mullahs fill their heads with. It is an affront to God. It may have been okay to read the Bible literally 2000 years ago, but being stuck in the past is destroying us now.

I share your distain for simplistic literalistic interpretations and the damage they've done. But it seems you are doing that very thing! Are you not being "literal" when you interpretate the "crown" in the first seal as a literal "crown" virus?

The Bible nowhere teaches that the six days are "literal". That's an interpretation that Christians have been debating since the beginning.

Christians have spent millennia disputing how to interpret the Bible. The fact that much of it is symbolic goes without saying. It's self-evident to anyone who has read it. Jesus is the door. No one thinks he has a knob and hinges! It's symbolic nature is the basis of the Spiritualist view mentioned above.

Forgive me for speaking so plainly. Please take no offense as none is intended. I'm speaking to you as a man who has made some exceedingly outrageous claims in language that matches the implications of those claims.

There's nothing to forgive.

Awesome! That's what makes this conversation both enjoyable and edifying. Thanks!

[bluetriangle]

Thank you for your well-reasoned response. I am really glad we "talk like adults" about points of strong disagreement. It's a very rare virtue!

Long may it continue!

Do you realize that your interpretations are utterly independent of the the validity of the codes? It should go without saying that the interpretation of your codes is less certain than the interpretation of the plain text, and as you yourself noted below you've "never met two Christians who agreed on everything." So if that's true about the plain text, the problem of interpretating your codes is a thousand times worse, especially since they are largely based on private visionary experiences that no one can verify for themselves. And worse, they involve exceedingly idiosyncratic ideas that are completely foreign to the Body of Christ (the Church that has faithfully passed down his Word through history).

My interpretations aren't completely independent of the code's validity, They are partially independent, but the code and my interpretation grew together and mutually supported each other. Look at the this pattern.

First 18 words NIV OT (o) = 906 = JESUS + SECOND COMING (s) (12 + 6 wds)
Last 14 words NIV OT (o) = 604 = THE SECOND COMING (s)
First 14 Words NIV NT (o) = 604 = THE SECOND COMING (s)
Last 18 words NIV NT (o) = 788 = THE LORD + SECOND COMING (s) (9 + 9 wds)

Note the 18-14-14-18 pattern, summing to 64 words. There is more in this, including the correspondence with the pattern of 14s that begin Matthew, but the gematria alone should be startling.

Now you say I'm giving the code (should it exist) an idiosyncratic interpretation, but am I? Just how many ways are there of putting this event into words? Note the verb 'coming' is used, not appearing, advent, manifestation, etc. It's top of the list of verbs we would apply to this event, as is 'Jesus' and (almost) 'The Lord'. Encoding these at the start and end of each testament also minimizes cherry picking

Given your 'degrees of freedom' argument, bear in mind too that this is a translation of words already written. God had fewer degrees of freedom in encoding the NIV than he did encoding those verses in Hebrew and Greek.

Over and over again I've been brought to cognitive ecstasy when contemplating what God has wrought in the NIV, although I'm sure you've had the same experience!

Continuous strife in the Middle East since 27/10/23? Like there hasn't been continuous strife since the founding of Israel in 1948???

Nothing in the past compares to what Israel has done in Gaza since 7/10. It's hard to talk about it without revealing sympathies, so I'll say nothing more here, as this is a red-button issue with me.

I used to habitually listen to Harold Camping (as entertainment and warning). He used numerology and his extremely idiosyncratic interpretations to predict, with absolute certainty, that the world would physically end on May 21, 2011. He said the only way his predictions could fail would be if the Bible failed. He was utterly deranged.

I've never heard of him. I'm not making predictions, incidentally, just interpreting past events, as has always been the case with The NBC. Well, with one exception, but I'll leave that for the moment.

Why did you choose 1/3/20? The WHO declared the pandemic on 3/11/2020.

I know, although it had been going for a while. You might say it symbolically began on 1/3/20. It certainly began that month and I thought the coincidence was striking. But the precise date doesn't matter. Note: I've just realized that you probably think I mean January 3rd. Our date order is different. It's 1 March, 2020.

Why do you think the Gregorian calendar date of 1/1/2000 was the start of the biblical third millennium?

I don't. It was 1/1/2001.

How could we possible know the real dates? We don't even know the date of the birth of Christ with any certainty. We have better info for the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. Does that number fit into your patterns?

Yes, I know, although I'm not sure what your point is here. The dates and calendars we employ seem to be used to create a framework or timeline. The real dates things happened don't really matter, certainly if they were two Millennia ago. It is interesting that 9/11 was the 254th day of the 3rd Mill. and the funeral of Pope JPII was the 1559th day of the 3rd Mill.

Our Lord Jesus Christ (o) = 254
Our Lord Jesus Christ (s) = 1559

These events represented the Crucifixion and Resurrection (9/11 especially was multi symbolic, though).

It is interesting that the year number 20 links naturally to the 11th letter Kaph, which has a value 20 and does symbolize the crown/keter. I couldn't help but notice its link to the corona (crown) virus even though I was still lost in unbelief at that time. I wrote about the connection extensively in the Bible Wheel book because it correlated very well with Spoke 11.

You seem to be squarely in the "futurist" camp. Is that correct?

I have no idea. I was told by my silent partner that I was chosen because I knew almost nothing about Christianity. I have deliberately avoided reading too much about the faith and especially eschatology (which bores me anyway).

I do believe Covid was designed in the lab, and wouldn't be surprised if it was deliberately released in China though I have no evidence for that.

Dr. David Martin gave an electrifying address to the EU Covid summit on 3/5/2023. US and UK scientists had been working on a modified coronavirus since 1967. Virus and vaccine are a two part weapon, a tool our psychopathic elite are using to cull the human population, slowly, over decades. By a country mile it is the greatest crime ever committed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfLycFHBsro

There is no hint of your interpretation anywhere in the Bible. Not. One. Word.

Is there not? I haven't time to really go into it, but the number 11 has been used as a kind of X to mark prophecies. It's everywhere in the Bible and I extensively document it on my site. From the Tower of Babel tale over th first 9 verses of Genesis 11, to the destruction of Satan in Revelation 20.9 and at many, many points in between, 9/11 is referenced. Try this short summary. https://www.thesecretcode.co.uk/page_2867194.html

I share your distain for simplistic literalistic interpretations and the damage they've done. But it seems you are doing that very thing! Are you not being "literal" when you interpretate the "crown" in the first seal as a literal "crown" virus?

Not really. A verse I might interpret literally might go something like: 'a pestilence will come upon the earth, the work of evil men. Look for the sign of the crown.' 'A rider with a crown on a white horse.' is metaphorical, surely.

The Bible nowhere teaches that the six days are "literal". That's an interpretation that Christians have been debating since the beginning.

Most serious Christians (not church goers) appear to believe it quite literally. Those who are skeptical just avoid talking about it. I worked for a Christian charity for eight years. I could never get anyone to seriously discuss their beliefs. They were too busy protecting them. It was all I wanted to talk about, because I'm only interested in one thing: the truth.

Christians have spent millennia disputing how to interpret the Bible. The fact that much of it is symbolic goes without saying. It's self-evident to anyone who has read it. Jesus is the door. No one thinks he has a knob and hinges! It's symbolic nature is the basis of the Spiritualist view mentioned above.

You're right of course, but there are vast numbers of Christians who believe Adam and Eve were real people. They don't read every word literally, but they do hold to a belief system that is far too literalistic. They are taught it too, in courses such as The Alpha Course and the beliefs of many denominations, such as the Brethren. Catholics are generally more sophisticated, but they also hold to, for me, untenable beliefs, such as the Virginity of Mary and transubstantiation. I'm not saying, incidentally, that miracles are impossible. They are real (I've experienced them) and evidence higher laws we know little about (prayer helps them along). But separating real miracles that may have taken place 2000 years ago from what was written by scientifically illiterate authors is difficult and so we have to read the Bible with that in mind. "Test everything" said Paul.